MAN WOMAN INTERACTION LECTURE #16 Eger, Hungary, 7th Aug 2007 Part 2
HH BVPS Maharaja: So is… So, Mr. Lepnikel wants to… [Laughter]
Prabhu: Yes, if possible.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes, why not? I mean, you are the president, you can do whatever you want. [Laughter] It just would have to be approved by your wife, that’s all. [Laughter] Otherwise, run it by the GBC. Gross body [indistinct 00:58]
Prabhu: One is willing to do the things that come easily, but to move on, that’s where you need to take responsibility, is that right?
HH BVPS Maharaja: You can do the things that come easily, but you are still responsible that you are gonna keep doing them. You know what I am saying? It may be, you like doing something, but you are responsible in that you do it at all times, all places all circumstances. See, duty is based on what you like to do. Right? But at the same time, generally it has the connotation of being applied when you don’t like to. But duty is what is natural for you to do, but sometimes the circumstances you may or may not feel like doing it, so you still do it because that’s what you are supposed to be doing. But it’s not difficult to do, because it’s your nature to do that. Does that make sense? And like in this case, you manage, so management works for you. You know what I am saying? But there may be times when you are tired or this or that and don’t feel like doing it, but it’s still done anyway. But what you are having to push yourself to do, is what you like to do anyway. Does that make sense? That’s the point.
So if you take something you don’t like to do and then you also then on top of it, the circumstances are such that you especially don’t like to do, then what’s the meaning? So therefore that definition of duty meaning “Those things I don’t like to do,” is not a good definition. The Vedic definition are “you are obligated to do those things that you like to do.” Means, you like to do them, therefore you will be the best one to do them. Therefore for everyone’s benefit you do them. Does that make sense? So the person who likes to cook, they do the cooking. Right? The person who likes to manage does the management. The person who likes to do office things, does office work. The person who likes to preach does that, so like that it’s established. But even if it’s something you like to do, there is always circumstances where it’s still an inconvenience, even though it’s what you like to do. Just like somebody likes to eat, but let’s say in your preaching programs you have to go to three programs, and all of them will have nice food that you like to eat. But how much can you eat? So therefore the first program went great, the second program is kind-of okay, the third one is an austerity. But because you perform your duty, then you still eat. Very dutiful. Do you understand? So in other words it’s something that you like to do, so therefore you do it regularly.
That’s why if the marriage is based on duty, therefore what you expect the other person to do is always done. So externally there is no cause for disturbance, then you only have to deal with the emotional aspect, as if we were relegating, the emotional aspect is the smallest part, right? [Laughter] Yeah, the emotions, that’s the easy part, right? [Laughter] The point is is, but if the environment is correct, it’s much easier to deal with the emotional aspect. So that’s why when there is habit, then you can do so many things. You do something well, I mean, you can do more things when you can do something well. You know what I am saying? Just like, let’s say you know how to ride a bicycle, then you can ride around town very efficiently, get so many things done. But if you are just learning how to ride a bicycle, then you are only thinking about the bicycle, not actually thinking how to get there, what’s the best way to get there, this, that. Does that make sense?
So that’s why someone’s duty is actually according to their nature that they are comfortable doing. Then they are able to do that duty nicely and then that gives them the free time to actually think what’s the proper mood and attitude and best way to accomplish. You know what I am saying. So therefore then things go smoothly. Right? Does that make sense? Example would be, another example would be, the wife is very practiced in cooking and cleaning and taking care of the things in the house, so therefore then she can serve prasada and make all the arrangements and all that, and because that comes naturally as habit, then she can use that free intellectual or emotional contemplation for figuring out the best way to make her husband feel very uncomfortable for what he just did that was wrong. So he is being fed nicely with all proper attention and everything like that. So he can’t complain, but at the same time he knows something is wrong. You know what I am saying? Much more effect is than no food and just yelling and screaming, because the other one you can get indignant and slam the door and walk out. But if they are taking care nicely, doing everything nicely, and at the same time just not talking, other than, you know, “You need this or that?’ But you can tell by the tone of voice and the words used that something is wrong, you feel more obliged to correct it. You know what I am saying? So that’s there, duties are always done. Like that. Then on top of that, then you have the whole culture, so there is a form of the culture, but more important than the form is the mood. Does that make sense? Because it’s the mood is where you actually get the taste. You know what I am saying? It’s comfortable to be in like a sattvic environment where everything is running nicely. So then you’ll have the best chance that within that then you’ll get the best emotional exchange. Does that make sense? Like that. Is that okay.
Mataji: I just would like to clarify one point that if we, just what you said before, if we would do like sankirtana in whole life and we would made like thousands of devotees and doing very good in spiritual life, but we wouldn’t behave properly with our husband anyway, and then could not satisfy him, then we would not go back to Godhead? This is what you said?
HH BVPS Maharaja: No, we were saying, Vaishnava etiquette. If we don’t follow the etiquette. That’s why we were saying before is the etiquette is being followed, even if one is upset or disturbed, the etiquette is still is going, the proper words, the proper tones of voice, but what’s being spoken may be pleasant or may not be pleasant. So the ability to know how to nicely deal… Because you wouldn’t be making thousands of devotees and making everything work and it wouldn’t work at the house, because why does someone become a devotee? Because you give them the proper attention, you deal with the individual, you answer their questions, take care of their needs. Then they see, this is something nice. So someone who can do that would generally be doing well at the house. Unless, of course, they’ve been, you know, either instructed or came up with some unique method of household interaction. Unless, of course, means, in that rare of occasion where somebody wasn’t trained and didn’t know how to operate the household environment. Right? But if they know, then they understand it’s the same method that works in the one, works in the other. The same principles that make your family happy can make the devotees happy and vice versa. Same principles work on your donors, work on your political contacts, work on your neighbor, so they don’t call the police every time you have a kirtan. You know what I am saying? That individual consideration and how you deal. So if they are doing well in one and not in the other, means, they could easily do in the other, they just haven’t made the connection. Does that make sense?
Mataji: And if we do the one side and neglect the other side like…
HH BVPS Maharaja: And neglect the other side? That’s not good.
Mataji: … to behave nicely or take care of the other…
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, then that’s [indistinct 15:14] Go ahead.
Mataji: …then because this is part of devotional attitude, this is… Means, they won’t go back to Godhead if they don’t do that duty towards the husband or the wife?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, at some point the lesson has to be learned. If one is still in the ashrama then better. But if one figures out afterwards, then that also works. You know what I am saying? In other words, some time before you die you should figure it out, whether you did good in it or not. You know what I am saying? The point is is, the mentality becomes compatible for working in the association of devotees. You know what I am saying? So it’s like you said, thousands of devotees, it’s all going great, so that means, basically you are talking 99.9 percent is working, but then that one last 1/10th of a percent is not, so if they learn that in the house then better, but if they learn it after in some other situation, still the point is to get 100%.
Oh, I just got it. Now I figured it out. [Laughter] You wanna know is if you just do your preaching and everything else, and don’t bother with the marriage, can you still go back to Godhead, or vice versa? Oh. So you wanna know, do we actually, since we are preaching, do we actually have to make this work? No? Okay. We were just joking.
Prabhu: [In Hungarian]
HH BVPS Maharaja: Oh, that’s his question. [Laughter] No, it means the point is is that all these are different varieties of opportunities to learn the same thing. So we are trying to learn this completely. You know what I am saying? So it’s still not completely glorious that one can please everybody else, but not one’s family. Please means, you are behaving appropriately, it doesn’t mean you can fulfill all their material desires and needs, that’s unlimited, that’s not possible. What it means is that you can’t really find fault in their behavior. You know what I am saying? The guy brings home a little bit of money, she would rather have, you know, 30 billion dollars. But that doesn’t mean that his household life is not perfect. The individual has to work on their own material needs and desires. You know what I am saying? But the point is is, the dealings are appropriate and that, they’ve done their best and they’ve actually followed the principles that are of how the interactions work, they’ve done their best at it, and so then that’s good. But material desire can never actually be fulfilled, it’s just the way it is. What you can do is fulfill it enough so that you figure out it can’t be fulfilled. You know what I am saying? That’s what you work out from doing that.
So that was the point, that’s what Yayati learned. Right? Yayati then lost his youth, so then he got a boon that for a thousand years he could trade his old age for the youth of his son. So for that thousand years then he engaged completely according to religious principles, means, not breaking any rules, he just engaged in household life. Does that make sense? And after that thousand years it says, he was satisfied. But his satisfaction was explained by him meaning “I am satisfied that I understand that there is no satisfaction in material desires.” Otherwise then there is a doubt, “If I’d just done it this way or just done it that way, then I would have been happy.” But you know you’ve tried all the mathematical combinations that you could actually come up with and then you understand, “Nothing.” Right? I think one group, I’m not sure, I think they were called The Fugs or something, they had a song, this “Monday nothing, Tuesday nothing, Wednesday nothing…” like you see, the whole week was nothing [Laughter]. Right? So everyday nothing, so it’s like that, it’s the material world, nothing. Right? But since we are quoting authorities here, another great authority then said, “In the material world,” he says, “You can’t win, you can’t break even, and you can’t quit.” That’s the material world. So the only solution is get out of here. You know what I am saying? Is that okay? Something on etiquette? [Laughter]
Mataji: Just from Yayati, it came to my mind that there is a curse due to which the Yadus cannot sit on the throne, and I don’t know what it is…
HH BVPS Maharaja: You have to look in Mahabharata, it says exactly what it is, means, each of the four sons got a curse in line with the particular material desires that they were maintaining that they wouldn’t accept. You know, like one was into “Oh, if you are old, you can’t ride around on chariots and horses and move here and there freely, ” and all that, so then he said that he would be king over areas where there are no roads, it’s only outside and mud and so much of the time he won’t be able to enjoy those things anyway. Like that, so each one got their curse appropriate… That’s the thing, Vedic curses are appropriate with the problem that generates the curse. You know what I am saying? So in other words, like Pandu shot animals while they were mating, so therefore if he ever mates, he’ll die. You know, like that. So the Vedic is always in connection… Like Nalakuvara and Manigriva, they are so intoxicated that when Narada Muni comes, they are standing there naked, so trees stand naked, so therefore he cursed them to become trees. Right? So it always matches. Or Ravana, because he attacked Rambha devi, Rambha is one of the five big apsaras, then her husband, I think it was Manigriva, then cursed him that if he ever touched a girl against her will, then his head would break into 10,000 pieces. So it’s in connection with… You know what I am saying? So that’s why even though he wanted to, he never touched Sita, because… That’s why he was always sending people to convince her how great he was, because despite our depictations… Works?
HH BVPS Maharaja: No, depictions, but I am saying, it could also be, means, technically, it would work, but people don’t use it. [Laughter] Then he was extremely handsome, I mean, extremely handsome. Basically that I know if he is a grandson of Lord Brahma, so he can’t be looking that bad, right? But still, Sita wasn’t interested, therefore he couldn’t go near her.
BuI wonder if that means, each of the ten heads would break into 10,000 pieces, or only one of the heads would break into 10,000 pieces, or the 10 heads would break into a 1,000 pieces each? [Laughter] But in any case, the consequences were bad enough he didn’t touch. So if you look in that portion, then you’ll see exactly what it was connected to. Does that make sense?
Mataji: This is connected to another question, because when you said about the preaching, but not dealing properly in the grihastha ashrama to go back to Godhead… So as I understood it would mean that when we go to the spiritual world, we have to deal properly with everybody, so that’s why we can’t go because until we deal properly with everybody, we can’t go?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, basically. Means, the principle is, we have to learn how to properly deal with everybody. But that means, someone who is still a grihastha. It doesn’t mean that someone is now a vanaprastha or a sannyasi, and because he didn’t do well in his grihastha ashrama he can’t go back to Godhead. So it means, now as a vanaprastha he has to learn how to deal with everybody properly, or as a sannyasi how to deal with everybody properly. Otherwise, we could start something pretty wild. No one can go back to Godhead because of the different things. The point is is, the etiquette is a general principle. So it should be properly applied. But many people don’t deal properly, because they don’t know. But once they know, then they should apply. Is that okay?
Mataji: My husband died, but I have 2 grown-up daughters and I don’t feel like I should be taking vanaprastha, but I would like to understand what’s my duty and behavior towards my family and myself as a woman, how should I behave and what are the rules in that kind-of a situation?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Technically speaking, if the husband is not there, you don’t have to take vanaprastha, you are vanaprastha. Do you understand? Vanaprastha for a woman doesn’t mean she has to not be in the family environment. For a woman vanaprastha means that she go with the husband and they are not with the family, or does she stay at home with the family. Vanaprastha means, she is not having more kids, she is not… You know what I am saying? She is not still trying to develop, expand her accessoires and facilities. She just maintains her own. The family, the children and that, they may be expanding, or you are helping them to expand, but it’s not your field that you are expanding. Does that make sense? You know, like that, so that’s vanaprastha. Vanaprastha means, you are not trying to expand the grihastha life. After so many years of experience what comfortably works, you maintain it at that and don’t take it beyond. Because when one is younger, then one is trying to figure out, “Do I need ten bags, or do I need five bags?” or, “Do I need 10 sarees, or do I need 30, or do I need 5,000, how many do I need?” [Laughter] You know what I am saying? So that’s the point, so in other words, when they are younger they are trying this, they are trying that, they are trying out everything until eventually you figure out what actually works and then you just maintain that and don’t bother any more. It’s comfortable, it works, that’s it, you are not trying to get more, this that. So you know what standard of living works for you, you just keep it there, don’t go beyond. You can take your daughters beyond that, but you don’t take yourself beyond that. And the emphasis will be them now, not you. When you are younger, the emphasis is you, and they are your children. You know what I am saying? But now the emphasis is them, not you, their lives, not your life and your life includes them. You see the difference? See the difference? Right? Yeah, so that’s the point that will make the difference, in other words, it’s their life and how can you help them develop their life, rather than you are taking care of them because they are your life. Do you understand? The mother takes care of the kid, because it’s her life, “It’s my kid.” So they are doing things for the kid, but that’s because they are your kid. So what works for me, I apply on them. But now you reverse it, what works for them, that’s what you help them do. Of course, you have experience, so you can help them figure out what they need quicker than they’ll figure it out. But you give it to them at the speed that they can accept it. Does that make some sense? In other words, the role reverses, you are the one moving at their speed rather than they are moving at your speed. You know what I am saying?
Mataji: Yeah. So my daughters have been attracted or accepted spiritual life to some degree, because I’ve been speaking to them, but their husbands are materialists and it’s very difficult for me to adjust to this situation, and I feel that the only way I can try to help them is spiritual. I don’t have any means to help them financially, and maybe their mother-in-laws and grandparents can help them materially, but I cannot, I can only help spiritually.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, that’s all you have to do. You are not expected to do more than that. They are married, it’s their husbands’ responsibility. Means, your responsibility in that department ended the day they said “I do,” right?
Prabhu: How does our nature change?
HH BVPS Maharaja: How does our nature change?
Prabhu: I used to be also very much interested in martial arts or management, I had my own company, but now I am completely not interested in it, there are other kind-of things that are engaging my attention.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Nature doesn’t change, it becomes purified, so it may have been, there were certain… What you have to look at is, what you were doing before was a manifestation of your desire. You know what I am saying? So was martial arts the actual important thing, or was it something that martial arts generated for you? You know what I am saying? Let’s say it generates some power or confidence, or a sense of security. There may be so many reasons what’s behind it. Right? But now if you feel secure in Krishna consciousness and you feel fine and all, it’s not necessary. You know what I am saying? So you have to see what’s the reason behind it? You know what I am saying? So if it’s not there, means, that wasn’t necessarily the nature. You know what I am saying? So it wasn’t necessarily that you are a fighter, this that, there are other things. Someone who even after it is, they still know the art, they still use it, but they generally are very peaceful and never fight, that’s a progression within that field, that means, that is the nature, the nature is to be a fighter. You know what I am saying? It ends up in the same place, they always end up in a monastery somewhere. Once you get to 8th Dan, you retire. You know what I am saying? So then… You know what I am saying? So what was behind it, then that’s not necessary, so therefore it’s not endeavored for, but the same needs are there, but now they are being fulfilled through a different… Does that make sense? So still one’s view and this and that will be the same. You know what I am saying? That won’t change.
Prabhu: What’s the difference between vanaprastha and sannyasa in principles and in details?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Principle is, vanaprastha is renunciation, sannyasa is indifference. Does that make sense? So in other words, a grihastha deals with the senses generally in a pleasant way. “What is the pleasant environment I can generate for the senses?” Vanaprastha means, “What is the situation where I can avoid generating a good situation for the senses?” In other words, the grihastha has expanded in this, vanaprastha shuts it down. Sannyasa means, you don’t care if it’s nice or if it’s not nice. Does that make sense? Grihastha, it must be nice. Vanaprastha, better it’s not nice. Sannyasa, who cares? [Laughter] If it’s nice, it’s just tomorrow it will be not nice, if it’s not nice, tomorrow it will be nice, it’s just the material world. You know what I am saying? That’s the difference.
So therefore generally the vanaprastha will be more absorbed in metaphysics, because they are breaking down those things, while the sannyasi, it will be more philosophy. In other words, one, you are breaking down dealing with the senses, the other one you are just breaking down the material world. But every ashrama cultivates these things. You know what I am saying? The brahmachari, grihastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa, they all are understanding what should be done and developing their technique, they all have senses that they are engaging, they all are trying to avoid over-engagement or improper engagement, and they are all trying to break down the material concept. It’s just a matter of where the emphasis is. You are doing the same thing, but through a different angle. You know what I am saying? But there is a hierarchy there. So whichever one works, or to what degree, that’s what you use. So that’s what Manu mentions, is that by going through your natural course, all four of the ashramas, or any one of them, or any combination, it doesn’t matter, you are supposed to get to the point of realizing one’s relationship with Godhead. Does that make sense?
Prabhu: When Citraketu Maharaja understood with the help of Narada Muni how the material world functions, then he took to vairagya-vidya, the science of renunciation. So is it not the purpose of our life also to come to understand the science of renunciation?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes. [Laughter] That’s why Prabhupada wrote the book. [Laughter] So wanna know more, read the book! Available at temples near you. Temple president will work out a special price just for you. See him after the class. Just sign your life away in blood on the dotted line here and he will arrange everything.
Prabhu: I don’t have money.
HH BVPS Maharaja: I said life, I didn’t say anything about money. [Laughter]
Prabhu: It would connect to the previous question asking about nature. Is nature something that we have from the time of birth, and parents only add to its character and culture, or how to understand nature?
HH BVPS Maharaja: It’s said, one quarter of one’s nature comes by… In this life, is dependent upon what it was last life, one quarter is, depends on the proper performance of the death rites in last life, because then whatever was good can come through, and if it wasn’t done, it’s blocked.
Translator: If it wasn’t done…
HH BVPS Maharaja: If the death rites were not done, then the good qualities at death are blocked. One quarter depends on the family you are born in, and one quarter is association. So you can deal with one quarter, so keep good association and then things go well. Does that make sense? So anything else?
Prabhu: This one quarter will give great inspiration to the parents to create a great personality or great devotee of their child?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes. That’s why it’s said is that the consciousness of the parents at the time of conception makes the child. Right? Hiranyakashipu, means, soft bed, which means, sense gratification, and gold, wealth, position, power, influence, prestige. Right? What was the consciousness of his parents at the time of conception? His mother was into hiranya, position and all that, because a co-wife had already had children, she didn’t, so she felt she was lesser. And she inspired her husband through the concept of kashipu. Direct. Science. Now, of course, somebody might be saying, “But what about his kid, Prahlada Maharaja?” You know the story? Yeah? So therefore then Hiranyakashipu was thinking of Narada Muni and chanting the Lord’s name at the time of Prahlada Maharaja’s conception. So he got Prahlada Maharaja as his son. Right? That’s why we always recommend Garbhadana, like that, because then that means that the potency of the Lord and everything is there and then it completely takes it to a different category. Because procreation is not fun, it’s responsibility, so therefore you get focused, responsible, sense-controlled, regulated children.
Prabhu: So it means that if a couple is in a good devotee consciousness at the time of conception, that would also mean that they could also be in a good devotee consciousness at the time of death?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Good chance.
Prabhu: So then they are ready to go back to Krishna?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Why not?
Prabhu: But if somebody cannot be in a good devotee consciousness at the time of conception, it’s better that they don’t have children, because it’s only by chance whether the kid will become a devotee later on or not.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Like that. [Laughter]
Prabhu: Thank you.
HH BVPS Maharaja: But the point is is, means, as good as they are able to be. You know what I am saying? Means, they should be serious and trying, it doesn’t mean that they are going to have to be pure devotees. Means, if they are pure devotees, they get a better result. I mean, you look at Kardama and Devahuti, not bad, they got God as their son. Pretty good. So, or… What was the other? Who was that other couple? They did austerity, meditation, for 60,000 years. You remember?
HH BVPS Maharaja: You know, and then, after seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face, then they had their kids, so these are like…
HH BVPS Maharaja: Prishni, Prishnigarbha, no, Prishnigarbha would have been the kid.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Angira, it’s one of the sons of Brahma. Yeah. So like that, so it is good, the more advanced they are then the better… In other words, means, in other words, the better quality the stock you start from, the better quality of result you can get. You know, gold ore you get gold, silver ore you get silver. Like that. But the point is is that they are trying to endeavor to be steady in their Krishna consciousness and that, because the steadier they are and like that, then the better quality child they will be. But the point is is, whatever is their position, if they follow the system and understand what is in the system, that will make anybody sober and focused and like that, so then anybody, they’ll get the best result. Does that make sense? There is two mantras there, you read the mantras, what does that mean? No? Yes.
Prabhu: How can a husband judge whether the wife is already mature enough to be a good mother or not? I mean, she would be able to be a good mother or not?
HH BVPS Maharaja: I would say, first question is, how does he understand if he is mature and good enough. [Laughter] Then he will be able to understand if the wife is. You know what I am saying? In other words, if you can judge yourself, you can judge someone else. If you can’t judge yourself, you can’t judge someone else. But generally you are looking for humility, service attitude, you know, all the nice, the Vaishnava qualities. But if the wife doesn’t have them, then the husband should look at himself to see if he has them. Because if he doesn’t have them naturally, she may not have them. But if he has them, then there is the best chance for her to have them. Is that okay? In other words, the qualities you want your children to have, if you have them then it will be that much easier. Does that make sense? Yeah? But at least you have to have the determination to have those qualities. Okay?
Prabhu: Earlier you mentioned that when the woman does her satisfaction, that inspires the man, and is this because of his desire for appreciation?
HH BVPS Maharaja: No. That’s because the man’s attitude of accomplishment. In other words, “I performed an activity and it has got a result,” that’s the masculine element. “An activity is performed, what’s the experience of it?” that’s the feminine aspect. So therefore the man has made an endeavor, the woman is satisfied, he feels he has accomplished something. You know what I am saying? Means, appreciation just confirms it, or one can understand how well it’s been accomplished by how much the appreciation is. Does that make sense? But the man who does the activity to please the woman just to be appreciated, women have a clever habit of, in that situation, saying nothing. Unless they’ve just taken the guy for a ride. Right? And then it’s expedient, expedient means, it successfully gets the accomplishment you want. Yeah, effective. You know what I am saying? So women will play off of the man’s desire for appreciation, in this way they get so many things done. For them, it’s a game. Or if they know that’s what you want and that’s it, then they just don’t say anything. You know what I am saying? Because their point is is, if you are doing it, you should be doing it for them, not for yourself. You know, so they thank you for having done it, but it wasn’t for them, so it’s not that special. Does that make sense? So therefore the principle of naishkarmya is very nicely driven home. So therefore you have your choice. Do you perform your duties with understanding, without desire for results, always thinking of your wife and to please your wife, or do you perform your duties, with proper knowledge and understanding, without a desire for result, remembering Krishna, to please Krishna. That’s your choice. The process is exactly the same, so it just what do you wanna get? Do you wanna go back to Godhead or do you wanna stay here? But the things that you have to learn, the techniques you have to use are exactly the same. You know what I am saying? You have to be humble to become self-realized. You have to be humble in the grihastha ashrama, you have to be tolerant of the material energy, you have to be tolerant of the family, you have to respect all living entities, you have to respect your wife. You can’t expect anything back from your exchange with any other living entity, you can’t expect it from your wife. Does that make sense? Right? So that’s the whole point is, to be successful in anything in the material world you have to use the same techniques as to be successful in devotional service. So best we learn it in direct devotional service, but if we can’t, if we are distracted by material desire, then through that material desire we should learn the same lessons that we can apply it in our devotional life. Does that make sense?
Prabhu: So using this in another scenario, then if we do something and the temple president is satisfied and tells us that he is satisfied, expresses it, and we feel good, then this kind of satisfaction is also due to the accomplishment, not necessarily due to our false ego?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Can be, it can also be from your false ego. The point is, you have to see what’s your motive. You want to do something nice for Krishna and after performing an activity the temple president says, “That was nicely done,” then you know Krishna must be pleased. Right? But if you perform the activity nicely so you’d be told that you did a great job, then the smart temple president, just like the ladies would do, will tell you you did a great job, because your false ego will make you do more service, so therefore your false ego then becomes a great impetus for engagement in devotional activities, till it gets so big, you can’t get into the gate, then it becomes hard. Then the temple president has to come out to the gate with a pin. And then you wonder, “What happened?” But at least you can get in the gate. Of course, they may have to use tweezers to kick you out, but… [Laughter]”He was around here somewhere.” [Laughter] “Don’t sneeze, don’t sneeze!” [Laughter]
Mataji: You were saying that the conditioned nature of the individual does not change, but at the same time it is said that with enough advancement all the good qualities develop in an individual, and Krishna provides all knowledge to the individual. So if these things are all present, then what is it actually that doesn’t change?
HH BVPS Maharaja: The inherent way that the emotions and the intelligence and senses function. Does that make sense? Let’s say, you had a particular physical strength before, then once you develop all the qualities of the demigods, doesn’t mean that it changes. Does that make sense? Like that. You know, what services you are comfortable in, that will remain the same, there may be their purified stages in that. You know what I am saying? Instead of taking tax because it’s good for your health, you may actually be part of the mainstream political system. Does that make sense? Like that. So like that, the political nature may change. I mean, not political, the nature becomes purified, you know. Does that make sense? Someone is interested in studying, and they just studied mundane nonsense, now they like to study Bhagavatam. Someone likes to manage, so they are just mundane manager, but now they do something for Krishna. So you don’t change nature, you purify it. And sometimes because of the modern culture, the mixes and everything, that only after some purification can you actually see what is the nature. Does that make sense? Okay?
Mataji: If I like chemistry and physics, because I want to understand how the world is working, is that good or bad?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, to want to know how the material world works, then that’s nice, it’s intelligent. But then if one wants to see how the material world works and then its connection to Krishna, then it’s even bigger, because the chemistry comes back to … Yeah, chemistry and biology, that there was some primordial soup that somehow or other came out of a big explosion, and then a lightning bolt came and hit it and then started the first living entity. So then but the question comes is, what is this nothingness that it came out of, because if it expanded into something, means, space had to be there. You can compress air, but you can’t compress space. I mean, they say they do, but it’s just they say, it’s impossible, because space is the, air is the potency into which something can expand into. So if something goes “Bang!” and then expands, means the space had to be there before the bang. Does that make sense? And so then… Then and how from this bang did you end up with a soup? Have you been in the kitchen when they drop the pot of soup and there is a bang? You don’t drop a pot and it makes a big noise, and then suddenly all the soup comes into the pot. It goes out of the pot. Okay, let us just say that we’re being more scientific and in this bang there is a lot of dust. You’ve noticed how it comes, they always do it in a parabolic curve from nothing and it goes out? You know, it ‘s kind of like coming out of a navel and expanding? Right? So what is that space, where in space was that space? Was it a bear down there? You know what I am saying? So then there is dust, from an explosion, dust, yes, everyone will agree, there is dust. Where in the world from dust do you get water, let alone soup? And then, of course, there is a discussion what kind of soup it was? Was it a minestrone, was it with spinach or kind-of a wet lecho? And then the best part is, where did the lightning bolt come from? Right? So that means, there must be laws in place that allow it to happen, because a scientist can try so many things, but if it’s not allowed by the laws of nature they can’t do it. So from chemistry and biology you can watch how the… Whatever, the post-bang you can see how it’s combined and developed. But if you really wanna know what this world is, you have to study where it came from. Just like if you wanna know the nature of a kid, look at the parents. Isn’t it? So therefore if we study Krishna, we actually know how this place works. Or, let’s take another example. You have a river, or a lake, let’s take a lake, and on the bank of the lake there is a tree, and in the water you also see a tree. So if we really wanna know about the tree in the water, what’s the best study? Wade into the water? Or study the tree on the bank? So by studying the spiritual world, then we actually understand how the material world is functioning. Does that make sense? So you can use chemistry, biology as a window through which to view the creation, but it will only make really sense when you compare it back to Krishna and His creation.
The universal formula for the working of everything in the creation is sambandha-abhideya-prayojana. You understand that, then you understand everything. If you have two chemicals, then that’s sambandha. Abhideya is, I pour one of the chemicals into the other. And prayojana, I get something, and hopefully, not a big bang. [Laughter] Right? So it’s working on the same principles, so even the chemistry, biology, it functions on the same principles. You know what I am saying? So if you can establish God consciousness through it, then it’s okay. But if we… You know what I am saying? The only problem… Chemistry is not so bad, biology is more of a problem, it’s all those… What is it? Formaldehyde frogs…
Mataji: So actually I like physics more than biology, because by studying physics we can to a small degree understand how Krishna and His energies are working.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes, but acintya-bhedabheda-tattva will get you more. Right? Because in physics then you have quantum physics, right? Because if you wanna know physics, you have to get to quantum physics. No?
Mataji: [Indistinct 01:23:37] [Laughter]
HH BVPS Maharaja: But the point is is, it establishes where, how things that aren’t seemingly the same happen in the same place at the same time. Right? Isn’t it? So just like you are a girl, you are also somebody’s daughter. So it’s two completely separate perspectives, but they function at the same place, right? That’s quantum physics. Do you undertand? So then therefore is, that’s Krishna, everything comes from Krishna, therefore all contradictory things are contained in Krishna. Does that make sense? So then in that way is, if through those things you can see Krishna, it’s fine, that’s what the Bhaktivedanta Institute is for, is through the medium of modern science they can prove the Vedic science. Right? So then it’s fine, but just on its own it can’t answer really anything. You know what I am saying? That’s the point, because unless you look at the complete picture, then only it makes sense.
Let’s say I have a steering wheel. Now, if I take that steering wheel and I analyze it, I put various chemicals on it, I watch what colors it turns and what kid of bubbles I get, and sounds and smells and, you know, like that. Or I take it and I check things, I take it on the roof and drop it off the roof, and I check various physical aspects of it, and stretch it and twist it and like that, will I actually be able to understand what a car is? From all those things, will I be able to understand what a car is? No. But if I understand what a car is, I automatically understand what a steering wheel is. Do you understand? So therefore the modern scientists are breaking their head against the wall to try to figure something out from completely backwards. While if they understand who God is, what the material world is, then their physics or the chemistry or biology or sociology or anthropology, it would all make sense. Do you understand? So that’s why as a devotee we start from there. Unfortunately, not very many chairs in very many universities agree with that same approach, therefore then Maharaja and his intelligence has established the bhakti and from what I understand the chairs there are a little bit more favorable to this particular viewpoint. Right? Yeah, it’s a good field.
Mataji: There is a couple and…
HH BVPS Maharaja: There is a…?
Mataji: There is a couple.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Oh [indistinct 01:28:00] bottle on that point.
Mataji: No, I’m sorry it’s related to a previous question.
HH BVPS Maharaja: It’s related to a previous question, okay.
Mataji: …and both of them have good qualities, but the wife has bad qualities also, and how can…
HH BVPS Maharaja: Both of them have good qualities…
Mataji: Yes, but the wife has bad qualities also.
HH BVPS Maharaja: But wife has bad qualities.
HH BVPS Maharaja: But the husband doesn’t have any bad qualities?
Mataji: Not many. [Laughter]
HH BVPS Maharaja: Okay. So this is a politically correctly presented question. [Laughter]
Mataji: It’s a particular case, I mean, that case.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Particular case?
Mataji: Yes, there is a situation, and how can he manage that only the good qualities get transferred to…
HH BVPS Maharaja: How can they see, there is only the good qualities are transmitted and they keep the bad ones?
Mataji: Yes. To the child.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Remember Krishna at the time of conception.
HH BVPS Maharaja: You know what I am saying? Because Krishna is good, He is all-good. Then you don’t have to worry about any of the other qualities. And it even works, if they both have good qualities and the husband has some bad qualities, but the wife doesn’t, it will still work. [Laughter] Or, if they both have good qualities, and the wife has some bad qualities, and the husband has some bad qualities. [Laughter] Or, it also works if they both have good qualities and neither have any bad qualities. [Laughter] But she wants to know what if they both have bad qualities and no good qualities, if they remember Krishna, will the kid be okay? [Laughter] That’s called Prahlada Maharaja. [Laughter]
Prabhu: I want to ask how much should the grihasthas give in charity, and how should they…
HH BVPS Maharaja: How much should they give in charity? Plenty. Tons, bring by wheel barrels, trucks. We don’t even mind, you can bring it by plane. [Laughter] I mean, I’ve seen a few when I was travelling, like this. They have 22 wheels on them, the trucks. And in Australia they have like trailers, like trains, they call them trains, they have about like 40 wheels. In India they send by railcar, like that. So the whole train is going from, let’s say, Ahmedbad to Nathdwar where Sri Nathaji is, and the whole thing is just full of stuff for Sri Nathaji. Like that, so… [Laughter] However you like.
Prabhu: It should be discussed together, wife and husband?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes, it should be discussed together wife and husband, whether they want that air-drop it, or freight, personally deliver it, you know, like that. No, the husband and wife should discuss and it should be, it should work. You know what I am saying? In other words, you can’t give more that therefore you can’t take care of the family. But don’t give less. In other words, you cannot be taking care of other devotees, but not taking care of your wife as a devotee. But you have to find what’s a good balance, so that you two work it out. Right? There is various kinds of gloves you can use, arm-wrestling, hand-wrestling, you know [indistinct 01:32:53] like that…
Prabhu: There is that 50% that’s written in the Prabhupada’s books.
HH BVPS Maharaja: 50%, it’s a good number, it’s not a bad number. But that means of profit. You know what I am saying? So it’s a delicate thing, you have to look at it. Like that. You have to see what you can make work. You know what I am saying? So in other words, either you can fit your lifestyle to what you get, and so you have to… So that takes intelligence. Or you have to look at it also is that, okay, what’s just bare minimum, and then what’s beyond that, then you start looking at that. You know what I am saying? So that means, partially then you give in charity, partially you can increase your bare minimum, so it just depends upon what you are talking about. So if you are making a hundred million, so if you gave 50 million, it would probably work fine for you, you could still pay the petrol for your plane. You know what I am saying?
Rain. This raining gets serious, so we go inside? Let’s better…. Yeah?