MAN WOMAN INTERACTION LECTURE #24 Budapest, Hungary, 10th Aug 2007

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

So human life is special. That specialness is that it can be connected, or one can understand one's relationship with Godhead. Other species can't understand these things. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending is the limit of their ability. But they can do eating, sleeping, mating and defending very well. But they are unable to go beyond that. So human life means, we can go beyond this platform. So, if a human being doesn't go beyond, then actually they are not exercising their full potential. So then that basically means that they are functioning as animals. Maybe sophisticated, maybe not, but animals nevertheless. Animal is one who can't understand what is beyond. They live in the moment, and that's the extent of their ability. So then human life means then one can understand what is beyond and then connect oneself to the Lord. So it doesn't mean that human life... Yeah, so human life means that eating, sleeping, mating and defending, those are connected to the Lord. So but that can only be connected if one understands who one is. So understanding who they are, then one can engage all of one's activities in the Lord's service, and one can go beyond this eating, sleeping, mating and defending and move to actual human activities of austerity, charity and sacrifice. So knowledge then would be about who one is and how one is supposed to behave within this world.

So that would mean then whatever human being does should be progressive, should be getting somewhere. If it's not progressing or moving forward, what's the use? Otherwise, if one is not, if it's not dynamic, then why be human? Even the animals try to better their situation, but unfortunately it's just mundane, while the human being can better themselves on the transcendental platform, and then whatever they have can be connected to the transcendental platform. Does that make sense? So that means then the scriptures give us direction how to live. Understanding that then we practice. Through practice, things can be focused and developed, until one gets a proper result. Because human being is looking for a result, but if that result doesn't end in something transcendental, then what's the use? The animals are also getting result, but... No? Okay? [Indistinct 05:55]

So the devotional platform then is how through our activities we can develop relationship with Godhead. Everything we do in this world we are doing it for ourselves or for somebody. So the Vedic viewpoint is, why not that somebody is God? Because when we are dealing with a relationship, we don't want things to be temporary. Temporary means insecurity, and insecurity is never a platform that one likes to be in. So since God is eternal, therefore relationship with Him will also be eternal, and activities done in relationship to Him will be eternal. So that gives satisfaction, that gives confidence, because only when there is confidence there is focus. So technically then someone who is God conscious then will be the most focused. In other words, the gross materialist and the focused devotee, they get results. Everybody else in-between doesn't do so well. But the problem is is, the materialist results may be good, but they are temporary. And then again there is problem. While the devotee then by focus then you get proper results, then those results are eternal. Does that make sense? It's not bad doing something for somebody who will never forget that you did it for them eternally. Hard to find that kind of closeness in this place, because here everybody somehow or another moves on. But God doesn't, that's how He got the job. He is the only one who is eternal, who is the origin of everything and everything expanded from Him and He operates everything, so He got the job. And unfortunately ourselves, even though we would like to have the job, we don't have the same qualifications. [Laughter] Our resume happens to be a bit more... How you say? What would you say? It's not as big. By the time we get it together, we die, so then we have to make a new one. So God doesn't die, so the resume gets pretty big. Does that make sense? So, therefore relationship with Him will give lasting results, we'll become happy in that situation. So the main thing is to make that endeavor to connect whatever we are doing to the Lord. So that means, everything, not just one's devotional practices, but everything in the life should be connected. Any questions?

Prabhu: I would like to deepen my understanding of serving. The concept of the abode of love and the object of love, so the vishaya/ashraya principle, could you talk about that a little bit more?

HH BVPS Maharaja: The abode of love and the...?

Translator: And the object of love.

HH BVPS Maharaja: And the object of love? Okay. Do you understand grammar? A little bit, okay. [Laughter] So the abode of love is the subject and the object of love is the object. Does that make sense? [Laughter] Yes? No? So the abode of love is Krishna, because all, whatever there is in the way of love, that's Krishna. Means, it's just like this. When you think about it, you say, mother Yashoda is in this Rasa, or the cowherd boys are in that rasa. What rasa is Krishna in? Some answer?

Prabhu: He reciprocates in the same way as they are addressing Him.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Okay, so then... But how can He do that? How would He have the capability to do that?

Prabhu: He is the source of all rasas.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Ahh. [Laughter] So that's what is meant by... What was this word?

Translator: Abode.

HH BVPS Maharaja: The abode of rasa, means, He is the rasa. You know what I am saying? That's what He, He is made of rasa. Does that make sense? That's why He is black, because all, everything is inside. If you take all colors and put it together, then you end up with black. So all rasa then is... Does that make sense? So the point is is, He reciprocates with however you approach Him. Because He is everything, so that means the living entity is not. So then that means, then you approach according to your perspective, so that will always be a portion. Does that make sense? The living entities have to be a portion, they can't be, they are not the complete whole. So that proportion then means that what is their proportion, that's what Krishna will relate to. Does that make sense? Because relationship means, there is some common ground. So the common ground is the interest of the devotee. Because Krishna is rasa, so He can relate to everyone in the cosmic creation. But the living entities, then they have a particular nature. Does that make sense? So that then is, Krishna will reciprocate based on that. Does that make sense?

So then that's the meaning of the vishaya and the ashraya. The vishaya has so many aspects, but the ashraya can only, because they have particular aspects, they can only relate to the vishaya through those particular aspects. Does that make sense? Does that answer your question?

Prabhu: And for the word "ashraya" I read the definition of "shelter", so I have read that the definition of "ashraya" is also shelter...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Shelter? Yeah, because they are the one who is, that particular rasa is being cultivated by them. Do you understand? So, mother Yashoda is the shelter of parental rasa, means the parental rasa can find its full manifestation in mother Yashoda. Does that make sense? Something else?

Prabhu: Can a human being understand Him completely?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Can a human being understand God completely?

Prabhu: Yes.

HH BVPS Maharaja: A human being can understand God to the level that's necessary. Because the point is is not understanding God, the point is loving God. You know what I am saying? So, understanding is only important that one knows actually who one is and what one's relationship is. Because affection is beyond that. Just like you can have affection for a person you don't know anything about them. The more you know about them, the more you know how to deal. But the living entity is limited, while God is unlimited, so that right away creates that bit of a problem. So whatever degree that one can, that's enough. So if you know any part of perfection, it's still perfection. So whether you know the ocean of perfection or a drop of perfection, that's still perfection. So that doesn't create any obstacle for the living entity to know God and develop his love for Him. Because satisfaction is in the relationship, not in the knowledge. You know what I am saying? Because knowledge simply means, you know who the person is. Interacting with the person, that's actually where the taste is. The experience of relation comes from interacting, not from knowing. Like you have husband, you have wife, so that's positions. But it's only when they interact the relationship is experienced. You know what I am saying? So therefore one needs to know that much knowledge that one is convinced that here is The Relationship. Does that make sense? Because otherwise you might think, "Oh, it can be found here or found there, so many places." But in anywhere else it's temporary. So only that which is connected to God, that's eternal. So the living entities then connecting themselves to God, they also attain to that eternal state. Means, the soul is already eternal, but just his consciousness is not in the eternal realization. So acting on the eternal platform, then one's relationship with others working on that eternal platform is also eternal. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: If the relationship between God and the [indistinct 22:36]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes. That's a matter of realizing. The example is given that when it's dark, you can't see yourself, but when it gets light you can see yourself and everyone else also. So when you understand God, you understand everything. Does that make sense?

Mataji: So does this same principle apply to the spiritual world, because you said that in the spiritual world everywhere there is full knowledge, so is it applied to the relationships, and what [indistinct 23:36] relationships in the spiritual world?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, full knowledge. See, full knowledge there would mean, you understand your relationship with God. That's proper knowledge. You know what I am saying? You can know so many facts and figures, but they don't really necessarily help your relationship with other people. You know what I am saying? You may be the world's authority on ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, but what does that do for your relation with your wife? So therefore it's only part of the field, the field of activity. So therefore, okay, then for the wife the husband is special because he has this position. It may create an inspiration to interact, but it's not the interaction. Does that make sense? Means, every woman wants to feel that her husband is special, but it's the interaction that's important. Just feeling special, then that's nice, but that's preliminaries to interaction. But it's not actually interaction. Does that make sense? Yeah.

So, meaning, you know your relationship with God, that's real knowledge. And you understand how relationship works. Because if that's there, then the living entity actually gets satisfaction. You know what I am saying? Other knowledge doesn't really give satisfaction. You want to know, that's nice. But until you apply that knowledge, it doesn't really give any satisfaction. The transcendental knowledge potency means the knowledge and the activities based on that knowledge. So in the spiritual world those two go together. In the material world, much of the time we see, they get split.  So someone has knowledge, but doesn't necessarily practically use it. While other persons, they are engaged in activities, but they don't necessarily contemplate what they are doing or anything higher than that. But the actual standard is, with knowledge you act. Does that answer? Is that okay?

Prabhu: You mentioned that Krishna reciprocates in the same way as we approach Him. Does the original spiritual nature determine how we approach Him?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Not here, not in the material world. Only in the spiritual world. You know what I am saying? Because the spiritual form means that it's based on one's interest or relationship with God. How you want to serve God, therefore that form manifests. So the form matches perfectly the relationship. While here we are starting with already a set form that's been generated by our material interest. Depending upon our interest, then that creates the particular nose, eyes, ears, mouth, skin, form that we have, so the present form is generated from mundane consciousness. So therefore you are starting with that and then you are simply seeing what is the nature and engaging that in the Lord's service. So it's not the same relationship in the way of detail, but in principle it is. The principle is, we are servant of God, so therefore here we are servant of God. And there in the spiritual world body, mind and words are engaged in the Lord's service, here we do the same thing. So the principle of devotional activity is the same, but just here you are dealing with inferior facility and there you are dealing with a superior facility. You know what I am saying? The spiritual form is eternal. While here whatever you have is temporary. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: There are certain things that attract me in Krishna, and where do these attractions come from?

HH BVPS Maharaja: He is all-attractive. [Laughter] So anything He does is attractive. You know what I am saying? They most likely will stem from things that you are aware of now. So, therefore what elements of beauty, wealth, power, knowledge, renunciation, fame that are important to you, those you will notice in God. So the point is, we start with the conditioned nature, and by devotional practice that's purified. Then we are able to actually realize who we are. Example is given of a mirror that's so dirty you can't see, there is no reflection. So you clean the mirror, and the more the mirror becomes clean, the more you can see who you actually are. So the more the heart is cleansed with devotional activities, the more you actually understand the spiritual identity. The point is to become attracted to God, don't worry if it's from this or from that, that's not important. You know what I am saying?

Prabhu: We hear that we are very far from the spiritual world, several years that separate us from the spiritual world, at the same time we hear that living entity or the soul in reality doesn't leave the spiritual world, because it's just a dream that he is away. So how can we understand that?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, you are here. You are sitting in Budapest, like that, not the spiritual world. But the point is is that material world is one of God's energies, right? But since we see it separate from God, therefore it's called illusion. But it exists, this wall exists, it's right here. But the illusion is, what we think it is. We think it's nice, it's not nice, it's ours, it's not ours, it's... All these things come up.  But it's God's energy, therefore it's God's wall. You see it like that, then you are actually seeing correctly. Then one is not on the material platform, one is transcendentally situated. So even though you are in the material world, you are technically in the spiritual world, so the only thing that keeps you away from spiritual understanding is consciousness. The consciousness is purified, then we are on the transcendental platform, so therefore we are not... Distance isn't a problem. God has expanded, the whole creation is God's, so we are not actually separated from Him, we just think we are. God is in the heart, so that's pretty close. [Laughter] So like that then it works, do you understand? So you change the consciousness, then you are on the transcendental platform. Because the creation is God, so if you are God conscious, then God is there. On the transcendental  platform there is no time and space. Time and space is something of this world. Does that make sense? Yeah? Question is okay? Answered?

Prabhu: [Indistinct 37:10] [Laughter]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Okay.

Prabhu: When we become purified, will we see our spiritual form in the spiritual world?

HH BVPS Maharaja: If you are purified enough, yes. [Laughter] When you are liberated from material existence, yes. Not only will you see it, you will be in it.  Does that make sense? So when you see it, you'll be using it. Does that make sense? But you have to be purified to that level. When you are freed from material consciousness, then that's called liberation. The liberated soul knows who they are, because the only thing that blocks that is our material identity. So as long as we identify that "I am God," instead of God being God, then that understanding is blocked. Do you understand? We are naturally servant of God, but as long as we are not identifying in that way, then that understanding of our constitutional identity will be blocked by conditional identity. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: How much knowledge is needed in order to get to that platform, or if we don't have that knowledge, will that knowledge come from practicing the process?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes. By devotional service knowledge and detachment come automatically, they are side products. Does that make sense? So you keep doing your service, then this platform will come automatically. But automatic means, you have to do something. Automatic doesn't mean I do nothing and it automatically comes. Automatic  means, I do what's right and I keep doing what's right and then automatically it comes. Does that make sense? Yeah?

Prabhu: And is there this consciousness existing in the spiritual world, is there such a thing as  consciousness?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Spiritual world is made of consciousness, this world is made of dead matter. The material world is made of dead matter, the spiritual world is made of consciousness. Everything is conscious in the spiritual world. So that's the difference. Here it's dead matter, so nothing is conscious, this wall is not conscious, the material body is not conscious. The presence of the soul, then the soul is able to be conscious of the body, right? But you remove the soul from the body, then there is no consciousness. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: If there is consciousness in the spiritual world, are there differences between the different consciousnesses of the different souls?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Naturally. Your consciousness isn't different from the guy sitting next to to you?

Prabhu: But I am not in the spiritual world.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, but we are talking about consciousness.

Prabhu: But consciousness of the spiritual world?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Consciousness is consciousness, it's just a matter of  whether it's spiritual consciousness or material consciousness. A color is color, but it's whether it's green or red or yellow, but it's color. Do you undestand? So consciousness means, one is conscious. Right now we are materially conscious, but not spiritually conscious. While in the spiritual world they are spiritually conscious. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: No.

HH BVPS Maharaja: No? So what doesn't make sense?

Prabhu: So my question is that in the spiritual world the consciousness of the different souls, or of the souls, what is their difference, in what respect are they different?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Because each one is a unique individual who has a unique relationship with Godhead. So they are aware of their own identity, they are aware of everyone else's identity, and they have their relationship with God.

Prabhu: So are there those who are little bit more morose and other souls who are like more happy?

HH BVPS Maharaja: No. Because in the spiritual world everybody is happy. Moroseness comes from the mode of ignorance. So you don't have that in spiritual world. There is only pure goodness. Okay?

Prabhu: Performing our duties, does this apply in all stages of life? Like the married state of life or the renounced state of life, and I am specifically interested in the married state of life. So does that... [Laughter]

HH BVPS Maharaja: You are interested in marriage, or you are interested in connecting marriage to Krishna consciousness?

Prabhu: Yes, the second one. Connecting my marriage.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, so then. So what is it that you wanna know how to connect?

Prabhu: So my question is in connection with the previous question, you said that practicing the process itself will generate the knowledge which is necessary to get to our relationship, our loving relationship to Krishna. So practicing the process of... So if we just burn out ourselves with that, but we offer the results of that work to Krishna, then will that purify us? Or will that be part of the process?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Sounds like it. I just heard the translation of it. [Laughter] [Indistinct 48:39] Yeah? Is that okay? [Laughter] Otherwise, you have to be very specific. A specific question gets a specific answer.

Prabhu: So somehow [indistinct 49:53] that in order to realize our spiritual identity we are in need of knowledge or performing activities that purify us, and by that knowledge or those activities we become purified, so that we can see our spiritual identity. And the question is that all the 4 ashramas can get this? All the four ashramas are suitable to get the spiritual realization?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes.


Mataji: So we come from the spiritual world and just as Krishna has a family in the spiritual world, we also have a family in the spiritual world, and when we come down here in the material world, doesn't our family, our spiritual family miss us? And is there some other devotee who carries out our duties in the spiritual world, our service in the spiritual world, while we are here?

HH BVPS Maharaja: One lifetime or Brahma is 3/4 of 1 second. [Laughter] Right? Ten lifetimes of Brahma is 7.5 seconds. [Laughter] You know what I am saying? So therefore don't worry about it. [Laughter] So you don't have to worry, hundred lifetimes of  Brahma is 75 seconds, one and a quarter minutes. It's a long time, means, you take 311 trillion years times a hundred... You know what I am saying? So you don't have to worry. So don't feel bad that they are feeling bad that you are missing. You should feel bad that you are not there. But in any case, they send people from the spiritual world here to look for you. But having been found, now you have to get yourself back there. Something else?

Prabhu: So we hear from Prabhupada also that according to our activities, or according to the process that we follow in the material world we get a specific position in the spiritual world. By vaidhi-bhakti we get to Vaikuntha and by raganuga-bhakti we get to Goloka Vrindavana. And if we have an eternal spiritual position, an original position in the spiritual world, how can it be that the process that we practice here in the material world will determine that, will determine our position in the spiritual world, position that we take in the spiritual world? So if it's eternal how is it that it's determined by the process while we are here?

HH BVPS Maharaja: The point is is, vaidhi-bhakti and raganuga-bhakti look the same, the difference is in the mood, does that make sense? So if one's natural position is that of vaidhi, one is satisfied with that, one doesn't move to raganuga. Does that make sense? Because you have to get to the liberated platform anyway and that's where raganuga bhakti actually starts. Preliminaries can be done before that, but it doesn't take its full form until that. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: So the question was, I think I put the question the question in the wrong way, because I wanted to ask that can the process that we follow alter our reaching our spiritual position? Change it?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, why should it?

Prabhu: So I wanted only to ask... My question is only whether it is possible?

HH BVPS Maharaja: What's the benefit? Self-realization means understanding who you are. Does that make sense? So that's what you are trying to do. Does that make sense? What's the need to change it? So, until you get there, then you won't figure out if you like it or not, right? But when you get there, you'll like it. And only by following the process will you get there. Does that make sense? You know, in other words...Yeah. Is that okay? Anything else?

Mataji: We heard about attaining the svarupa, and when devotees hear the word "svarupa" then they think of specific forms, like form of a gopi or a cow, or a tree. But we see that Lord Caitanya was praying that He wants to be the servant of the servant of the servant, and so it represents an attitude, an attitude of humility, and is it okay, is it proper for... Isn't it more proper for Gaudiya Vaishnavas to aspire for this humble attitude than to aspire for specific form [indistinct 01:00:35] humble attitude?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes. Means, the point is is that the devotees in the leading positions are already there, the heads of the five rasas are already there, they don't come here. They come with the Lord in His pastimes, but they don't come, they don't become conditioned. So therefore then they have their servants, so like that we can become the servant of the servant of servants. So that, by that attitude then one can get to the spiritual world. Does that make sense?

Mataji: And in this connection, if we serve our spiritual master, is that enough to get there?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, because he is serving his spiritual master, who is serving his spiritual master, so automatically you are the servant of the servant of the servant. Yeah? Any question over there?

Mataji: I had already asked that question, but I didn't understand the answer, it was many years ago. So we hear that the soul has an original form, and we also hear that the soul is smaller than the atom. So how should we picture it, that the soul has an infinitesimal form, like very small, or that it's just potential that will be manifest later in a form, in a material form?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, means, it's just the form here. Means, according to the relationship then that form manifests, because it is the consciousness of the living entity, then they are non-different from the form, the form is them.

Mataji: And does it mean that the soul exists without... Can the soul exist without that form and does it mean that if the soul regains the proper consciousness, then the form will manifest itself?

HH BVPS Maharaja: The living entity now is existing without that form, so it's only by the devotional process then that form will, the original form is revealed. Does that make sense? Something else?

Prabhu: We have to love Krishna, but in order to be able to love Krishna we have to let go of our material attachments, and in order to be able to let go of material attachments, we have to love Krishna, so it seems to be a vicious circle, and how can we get out of that?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, you have to... Did everybody hear? So it's, means that it's by wanting to get out then that's already that desire. But the problem is is, that desire has to become a need. As it becomes a need, then it becomes very dynamic. Otherwise, it will work, but it's just slower, because no desire, nothing happens. There is desire, then something happens. But when desire turns into need, then it becomes very dynamic.

Prabhu: And what should we desire for more - to love Krishna or to let go of material attachments?

HH BVPS Maharaja: To love Krishna. Because if I wanna let go of material attachments, then where is Krishna in that equation? And so if I wanna love Krishna, therefore I have to give up my material attachments. Or if I wanna start there and give up my material attachments to love Krishna, then unless you act on that end then just another one... Maximum that you gain is liberation. You know what I am saying? Giving up bad qualities may get you out of the material world, but it won't get you into the spiritual world. Only love for Krishna will get you into the spiritual world. Is that okay? That's why we see, "always remember Krishna," that's first. So "never forget" means don't let other things get in a way, so that you don't always remember. So the process of sadhana bhakti is engaging those things that make us forget Krishna in the Lord's service, so that way then they help us remember. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: So somebody says that by our own effort it is possible to achieve it, and somehow Krishna always comes in the picture that He helps us, or He intervenes in our effort...

HH BVPS Maharaja: But you have to make that effort. Because He'll only reciprocate the effort you make. If you take one step towards Krishna, He will take ten towards you, but until you take one step, He won't take that ten steps, because you are not interested. But if you are interested then He reciprocates. So whatever your interest is, that He reciprocates. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: So one would like to make these steps towards Krishna, but one sees that there are many obstacles which prevent him for making these steps, and he just cannot let go these attachments that prevent him, then in that case, will it be the material suffering that will re-orientate us towards Krishna again, or...?

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's a good inspiration. When we've figured out that we are not the controller and enjoyer, then whatever we are trying to enjoy is not actually enjoyable, then one has a tendency to start to get more spiritually inclined. You know what I am saying? Yes, there is that inspiration. The point is is, anything you want you have to work for, so even those things that are attracting you in the material energy, you still have to work for them. Nothing comes for free, so the same point is, if that same endeavor is made in God consciousness, then the difference is is, one, you get God, the other one, you just get some material result that won't satisfy you anyway. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: But it's still difficult.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Everything is difficult, it means, specifically the ashrama you fit. [Laughter] So you don't seem to be one that's afraid of difficulty. [Laughter] Maybe of your wife, but not of difficulty. Do yo understand? So therefore you are willing to make that effort, so that same effort you put into God consciousness, then the result is quite good. Right?

Prabhu: When one commits a lot of offences against devotees, in dealings with devotees or otherwise, are there things by which we can annul these offenses, or by which we can avoid getting the reaction for these offences, because anyway we have so many obstacles that we have in our devotional service. Somehow, so... Does one necessarily have to get every reaction or there is there any way that we can avoid getting it?

HH BVPS Maharaja: That would be one approach. The other approach would be, how to give up offenses? [Laughter] You know what I am saying? Is that...? So the point is is that be aware of what generates those offences and then make the endeavor to give that up. Does that make sense? So put your focus there, how to give up offences, than how to get around... You get around offenses by giving them up. But by chanting and associating with devotees then we become purified and we get good example and then we are able to move forward. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: I am talking about offenses that one has committed previously,  a long time ago, if they also give reactions then how can we somehow avoid getting those reactions, by praying, for example, or...?

HH BVPS Maharaja: The first is to go to the person you have offended and apologize. That's always the most direct and instantaneous clearing of the offense. Does that make sense? If it's with the Lord, then just you chant and stop being offensive. And then if it's a person, then go to that person and beg for their forgiveness. It works.

Prabhu: And what if it's, the reaction is because of offenses that we committed in previous lifetimes? Is there anything we can do about that?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Chant. You know what I am saying? If the person is not available to apologize to, then just by chanting, lots of chanting. Okay? Means, if they are available, then you have the direct process, if they are not available, then the chanting will clear it.

Who is organizing this, how do we know what time are we coming up to? Is there some variety of temple authority here that can give us the answer?

Mataji: No one.

HH BVPS Maharaja: No one. But so, I am just saying, what time does the class normally end? 7:30?

Mataji: 7:30, it started 7:30

HH BVPS Maharaja: It started 7:30? And then go to...?

Mataji: Eight and something.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Eight and something?

Mataji: But if there is some special guest they can go to...

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's still 8 something? Okay. And special guest means...? I just have to know, because, I mean, unless everybody here lives in the temple or has their own car, then is there a problem for getting around? Because I don't know. In New York the trains run 24 hours, there is no problem. I don't know if they do that here.

Mataji: It wouldn't be a problem yet.

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's not a problem yet, but I am saying, when does the problem, when does the "yet" arrive? [Laughter] Oh, okay. With that conclusive answer then we'll move forward.

Mataji: Matajis mostly work on the basis of emotions, and can we achieve Krishna, can we attain Krishna on emotional basis, or is it more useful to function on the basis of knowledge?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, everything else you get as a woman is based on emotion. So it works.[Laughter] Right? Means, if you like Krishna, then you will make the endeavor to attain Krishna. If you don't like, why would you work? So but at the same time, what's not likable about Krishna? That means, like of all men He is the most powerful in the universe. He is the most beautiful in the universe. Most famous, even the atheists talk about Him. He is the most... He is, means, any quality that you are looking for in a man, He has got it, in unlimited qualities. And the best thing, He never gets old. Like that. Right? And once you catch Him you got Him eternally. Every woman's dream. [Laughter] So therefore it works very well. Okay? But you apply your intelligence where your sentiment is getting in the way of getting Krishna, that's where you use your intelligence. Does that make sense?

Mataji: What's the difference between the soul and the consciousness?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Technically, no difference. Soul is consciousness, so if the soul is covered, his consciousness become polluted, so the pollution is different from the soul. Does that make sense? So therefore it's covered, the pure consciousness is covered by impure identity. We think we are the controller and the enjoyer. Controller and enjoyer is the masculine principle, so that's God. So as we mentioned in the beginning of the discussion, the post has already been taken, it's too late. And He has been appointed to that position eternally. So even if you wait, an opportunity won't come, sorry.  Does that make sense? Yeah, so therefore that's why we are purifying the consciousness, then we will function in our constitutional position instead of the conditional position. You know? Okay?

Mataji: Maharaja, yesterday you were saying that both materially and spiritually one who is focused can be successful, so what are those things that can increase our focus and what are those things that would decrease our focus?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Knowing what you want, having knowledge of what something is, what's available and how to get it. Does that make sense? Like that. Because when you know what you want, then your endeavor is very clear. Of course, you have to know the process how to get it also. So when you know who you are and what the field is, you know what you want and the process how to connect those two, then you'll be successful. Does that make sense? So that's why we study sambandha, abhideya, prayojana. Does that make sense? Is that... We have a question over here? No? Something else?

Prabhu: It was mentioned that we should avoid offenses. But we have heard in so many places that we have an inclination towards comitting offenses, and how can we overcome that inclination or propensity?

HH BVPS Maharaja: I mean, it starts with wanting to. Means, anything starts with wanting to. Does that make sense? Yeah. So that's the first thing. Then, any activity that we do generates the desire to do it again. So therefore if you engage in spiritual activity, having done it, the desire to do it again will be generated. Does that make sense? So by engaging fully in Krishna consciousness, then it will generate more desire to be fully engaged. And the potency is there that it will remove those desires to be sinful. Is that okay?  "But"? [Laughter]

Prabhu: But where does that force, strength come by which we can resist to the inclination of wanting to commit these things?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Basically, the association of devotees. You know, and specifically the blessings of the spiritual master. Yeah? Now again?

Prabhu: Just one more.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, but then you should...

Prabhu: So often while we commit offenses against devotees [indistinct 01:31:21] or we act upon the moment and we cannot stop ourselves from comitting these offenses. How can we somehow refrain from these offenses in those situations?

HH BVPS Maharaja: So by taking up the devotional process of vaidhi bhakti, we can give up the spontaneous, or raganuga mundane existence. Okay? Something else?

Prabhu: We've heard that if someone is clear in what he wants, then that result and [indistinct 01:32:59] do that we need, do we need the sambandha knowledge or... To get the result we need the sambandha knowledge?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, if you don't know what you are dealing with, how do you get the result? You have a blender. There is the fruit. But if you don't know what food is , or a blender, how are you gonna get juice? And how do you use it? You fetch the fruit, you put it on the counter, take the blender firmly with two hands, start banging it on the fruit. [Laughter] You will get juice? So would knowledge make it a little easier, or...? Therefore am I satisfied with the simplicity and directness? [Laughter]

Prabhu: And will this knowledge come automatically if one chants Hare Krishna and associates with devotees and follows the process, practices the process?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Basically. Most devotees will know how to use the blender. [Laughter] Okay? What knowledge are you worried about to know? Nuclear physics, neural brain surgery, rocket science, what's the nature of women, what is it that you are looking for?

Prabhu: So what I don't understand specifically is why we are chanting, how that sambandha-jnana is present?

HH BVPS Maharaja: You understand you are servant of Krishna, and you understand that by chanting Hare Krishna then heart will become purified, and then Krishna will be revealed, so that's all sambandha-jnana. So that's why you are chanting. Does that make sense? Yesterday I told you something else, by chanting you'll become an American president, or something? No? Then it should work. Does that make sense? In other words, you are already working on sambandha-jnana, that's why you are following the process. Does that make sense? So the first point of sambandha-jnana is understanding what's sambandha-jnana. Sambandha-jnana means relationship. What's the relationship between you and God and material world and God. Who is God? Who are you? What is material world? That's sambandha jnana. Does that make sense, or...? Some other doubt is there? No? Sure? [Laughter]

What time the Deities close?

Mataji: At 9:00.

HH BVPS Maharaja: So anything else? Last chance, two more minutes.  Okay, we'll end here.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Prabhu: His Holiness Bhaktividya Purna Maharaja ki jaya!

All comments.