MAN WOMAN INTERACTION LECTURE #22 Budapest, Hungary

So this is the application of the philosophy into the culture. You see, it's direct, as it's explained, that's the way it's applied. Does that make sense? So much of the social difficulties we have is simply not understanding how the philosophy actually applies directly in our day-to-day ordinary life. Major principle is applied, we are not bewildered, "Am I servant of Krishna or not? Is Krishna God? Whether I should serve Krishna?" Means, these things the devotees are very fixed on, they are very good at philosophy. But transferring the philosophy into culture, then we see sometimes there is a loopholes. Much of the time if we are culturally successful, that's simply due to our previous experience, it's not actually due to understanding the philosophy. You come from a cultured background, therefore you act like cultured. But the principles on which that culture works we may or may not have understood. Does this  make sense? So that's one.

Another, let's take another aspect, since we are on the topic of the fighting, since that's generally a major pastime in family situation. The man will think, 'Why fight?" It could be peaceful, nothing happening, we can maintain our couch-potatoeness. [Laughter] Like that. So then why all the trouble? Point is is that you see that energy does not move in a straight line. A lightning bolt is always crooked, energy is always crooked, water doesn't go straight, it moves, everything that's energy always moves in an erratic way. If it moves one way, it has to move the other. That's why when one's happiest moment, that's when the fight starts. [Laughter] Because the point is, the needle goes all the way how far it goes, and as soon as it gets to the top, what does it do? It starts to go down, right? That's the nature. Now, that will be, there will be two principles here at work. One is the feminine nature is that of pleasure. Radharani is hladini-shakti, which means the pleasure potency. Happiness is always increasing. But how does happiness increase? By taking it the other way. Is that understood? Radha and Krishna are together. Then, when They are separated and They come back together, we see there's even more happiness. Does that make sense? So, therefore to increase the happiness, then that means there has to be increase in security. Means, increased attraction or increased need. Only if you increase the Pradyumna and Aniruddha, then Vasudeva will generate greater happiness. Does that make sense? So that's why at that moment then something is brought up, but if you answer it correctly, that establishes security, then things keep going smoothly. You don't answer correctly, then it swings the other way, because what you've done is generated insecurity. And the only way to correct that insecurity, is by that humility and proper dealings. That generates security. Then, to do it you'll have to generate more security than was there before the fight started, not less, more. So, when more security has been generated by pleasant dealings or humble, sincere, or say, sincere dealings, then immediately then the needle swings back into the positive. Does that make sense? So it's not that fight won't be there. It has to be there, that's the way energy works. But by maintaining the proper attitude, then the man won't be affected by when it goes into the negative. In other words, not that negative doesn't happen, one won't be affected. Does that make sense? So, in other words, then in that, just the technique of application is, if the argument starts, if by what  you say you're correcting the situation, then one is active, because you are active within Vasudeva, means you are correcting the situation. But if that doesn't work, then you go back to the Pradyumna. So it's a state of existence, but a positive state, but there is no interaction. Means, no interaction means, you are not doing something, actively doing something. So you are not saying anything, not doing anythings, and not going away. So not doing anything means, not slamming doors, not yelling and screaming, means, doing nothing. Then... But one is willing to do something, as soon as you know what's happening. And knowing what's happening, means, first the woman has herself figure out what's happening. If she doesn't know, you won't know. Otherwise, how do you reciprocate? Does that make sense? The feminine, the masculine is going to reciprocate with the feminine according to what their nature is at the time. So the woman would be talking this, that, so many things, may make sense, may make no sense, doesn't really matter. So, basically you are dealing with the experience, the dissatisfaction. So whatever they say, generates in you the same feeling of dissatisfaction that they are experiencing. How do you generate it back, then the focus comes, what was the cause of it, then once you get the cause of it, you can help. Does that make sense? So only if one is humble and one is sincere, then having experienced the difficulty they are experiencing then can the focus be there that it's known what now you should do to now reestablish the security, so that you can move on. Does that make sense? It's a science. So operating a science, that's masculine. Just blowing up and yelling and screaming, that's not masculine. It's just emotional reaction. Masculine is intelligence, feminine is the mind. So women will always work in that way. So if the man applies this science, that will then correct the situation and generate the intelligence aspect of the woman where they can see what is their own fault. Otherwise it's [indistinct]11:48 unless you use intelligence in relationship, not relationship... not intelligence in pure philosophy. Do you understand the difference? In other words, the intelligence where you're just seeing what the elements, what's what, what connects to what and that's all. But there is no relationship, interactive relationship. Men can do that well . That's the advantage for getting out of the material world, because you can deal with the material world as just an entity that you don't want to have a relationship with. So that's where that comes in, that's the advantage in the masculine mentality. But in interacting with others there must be the element of... relationship must be calculated into the philosophy. So when the man is doing that , that creates the security, because they are confident of relationship. And then it will develop.

Now, let's take another aspect of this, we are daring to say, principle of argument. This is from Rupa Goswami. This is taking the development of attachment, or, let's say, development of affection, let's say. Even if it's not good... Or, development of Rasa, let's put it that way. The development of the depth of the Rasa, okay, that worked. But we are reflecting it into what we can deal with. So Rupa Goswami explains when there is attraction and that attraction increases, it crosses reason and logic. It becomes attachment. Does that make sense? You are going from Pradyumna, which is in sambandha, which is logic, or intelligence, you are crossing over the element of abhideya that's the cit potency, that's where knowledge is, to Aniruddha, prayojana, that's where then attachment is. Then you can work. If you are attached to something, you work. If you are attracted to something, you don't work. You see something, "Oh, nice car." But when you are attached, "I got to have that car." Does that make sense? So when attraction crosses logic, it becomes attachment. When attachment deepens, then there is consideration. Very important point. Because a symptom of attachment therefore is consideration. If you not consider it, then the woman will consider you are not attached. If you are not attached, then that means, you may not be attracted, or... How you say? Yeah, not attracted. And as soon as you've done that, now you've crossed back across the intelligence, so now all the logic starts. And if you are not attracted, means, there is no relationship. You see the pattern? And when that happens, means, there is no relationship, means they are insecure. So any inconsideration towards the woman will generate this havoc. That's why you think it would be a logical discussion, she just wants you to prove that you are still connected and you have a relationship. So if you prove it through consideration, then there is confidence. So therefore if you see a confident woman, you know she has a considerate husband. An unconfident woman means an inconsiderate husband. And then when confidence deepens, then you get infatuation. So if before the marriage, or in the beginning of marriage you appreciated that really goofy, attractive woman, that was because you were considerate. If you wonder why your wife changed, because you changed being considerate. Does that make sense?

So this is Rupa Goswami's explanation on how relationship deepens. That applies to anybody. You are not considerate of friends, they'll think you are not very much, the relationship is not very deep, so the relationship gets more formal. But if you are considerate, you'll be very careful how you hold the hammer and how you hit the nail. If you are not considerate, means, you don't care. So you put the nail into fence, who cares? Do you understand? So, this principle works anywhere. But that's why if you say the wrong word in a wrong tone of voice, then immediately it generates this chain reaction that results in insecurity. And what is right and wrong, that depends upon the couple. Every woman is different. And what works in one situation, may not work in another.

Krishna is the controller and enjoyer. So, He is going to eternally be doing that. So then happiness is generated through variety. So the feminine nature is, say, the manifestation of unlimited variety. That's why the woman will never respond the same twice in any given situation. It works for Krishna, in fact, He can be with more than one woman, who is dealing differently at every moment. Because He is the controller and enjoyer. But it kind of gets in the... It may be disturbance for the living entity who is trying to be the controller and enjoyer and every moment is different than the last and will never be the same again. So that's why unless you follow these philosophical and cultural formulas, it won't work. Krishna does these things, because it's done, therefore it's then written in formula. It's not the form of it, that's where Sahajiya comes. Sahajiya is you follow the form of Radha and Krishna. But we are talking about the philosophy, the culture, what is the foundation on which Krishna interacts with His creation. That always works, that's why there is a culture. Means, it's a common formula that everybody in that community uses. So, if you want to be in Krishna's community, then you have to follow the communal rules. Does that make sense? That way we can see the functioning of how Krishna interacts with the devotees and take the principle, but don't use the form. Does that make sense? Means, Krishna, when Radharani becomes angry, have you ever heard Krishna get upset and slam the door or walk off? He immediately becomes humble. He will joke and make trouble, until She becomes angry. But once She is angry, He is always humble and always sees it as His fault. So that principle we follow. The things He says to establish the parakiya-rasa of the gopis, that we can leave out. But the principle is, He has to improve His worthiness, that He is worthy of the gopis consideration, the same principle. Does that make sense? So any questions on this?

Mataji: This principle of relationship, is it the same between spiritual master and disciple?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes, it's always the same.

Mataji: One can see that spiritual master may be angry at the disciple, I've seen that's connected to the relationship.

HH BVPS Maharaja: But here you also have to see what is the relationship. Spiritual master is providing everything. But the relationship is master-servant, right? Not father-daughter. Therefore the emotional interaction will be very formal. But for spiritual development it works perfectly. But for more emotional support, then that's why other rasas are there. That's why you take shelter of other friends or those who you see as senior to you that's has a more emotional content, that's gained there.  So here it's giving instructions that will work for you. As we said, they make the first step, they are leading, you follow it, that's reciprocation. Do you understand? But the point of the personal is that the instruction is what works for you. So it works for individual or it works for a particular group. But the consideration is the audience. So the same principle is being applied. According to the nature of the audience, therefore then the preacher is speaking. So they are taking that first step, that's the masculine principle. Masculine is first, then feminine follows. Instruction is given, then disciple or audience then applies that. Does that make sense? Same principle, but you have to be clear what is the external manifestation of each rasa. The principle on which it functions is the same for all rasas. But its manifestation, or the medium through which it's manifest varies. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: Maharaja, you were saying that women are dependent. But we see that they may get money, [indistinct] not being involved with men...

HH BVPS Maharaja: How do you explain the women who are not involved with men? It's working, but it's working in the negative. A woman is only independent if somehow or another there has been something men have done that she is not impressed with. Does that make sense? So therefore then they work with the field, which is also masculine. You know what I am saying? So you don't see that the independent woman then therefore takes on one set of clothes and then walks off and lives under trees. They try to [indistinct] in the house and furniture and curtains and all the little [indistinct] that are there in the house. Because that then generates her facility therefore for experiences and prestige and like that. Does that make sense? So you can't get away from the masculine-feminine principle. It just takes different forms. And underlying, generally it's that they are behaving that way because that person who then inspires the male-female interaction, meaning, in a personal relationship, hasn't been found. That would be general, women who have the [indistinct]... the karmis. So karmis eventually have to move back into the normal. But devotees, as the're trying to get out of the material world, then they have beyond that realization that even though it would be more comfortable, it may not be worthwhile. But generally, according to the tradition, only women with an inherent brahminical nature would do that. But they won't have it agressive, in your face, nothing. They in their own feminine way go back do service, just they do it alone. Is that okay?

Mataji: So the question is that how does mother works in the relationship between mother and child, because according to the definition in this mother-child relationship, the mother is the feminine principle and the child is the [indistinct], so how does the mother take this active role?

HH BVPS Maharaja: That means, how does the mother take that role? That's all she does. She is always making the arrangements and arranging the food and doing this and that, she is always taking the step, what the kid wears, when they wear it, how they wear it. Based on the nature of the child, that's how you deal. Child is hungry, you feed it, child is tired, you put it to bed, child is cold, so you put on more clothes. The principle remains. So it really owns to the acintya-bhedabheda-tattva that we can accommodate these things. Because simultaneously you have the feminine nature of the mother and the masculine nature of the son, but at the same time is in the operation of their relationship there it's seemingly reverse. So if you can accommodate two things that don't seem to make sense at the same time, then the operation of buddhi-yoga will be very easy for you. But let's say if the son wants to do something for the mother, then it reverses. Do you understand? So, the principle is is, if you are operating it, that's how it works. It's the rules of subject-object. Does that make sense?

Mataji: So it's interesting or surprising, because the mother is always the feminine principle, accepting and receiving...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, but generally she gets that from the the husband. In other words, she is very nice with the kid, doing everything for the kid and that and then, but that's not necessarily the case that's going on in the relationship with the husband. So therefore then the husband has to be applying these principles properly on the wife, that way she is able to therefore do it for the son. That's why a secure wife is a good mother. And an insecure wife tries to be a good mother, but it's emotionally very difficult for her, because she is not receiving energy needed that she can therefore then transfer to the child. She has to generate it herself. That's why they cry a lot. Does that make sense? But if she is getting proper energy from the interaction with the husband, then interaction with the child will be very direct and very powerful. Because then they grow up very normal, because the energy put into that was very normal. Do you understand? Like that.

Something else?

Prabhu: If the husband takes up a very simple style of life, a very kind-of austere style of life, doesn't that create insecurity in the woman?

HH BVPS Maharaja: If that's already been worked out beforehand and that's accepted by the woman, then it works. Draupadi was a princess of the Pancala dynasty, very powerful dynasty. Dhrishtadyumna is her brother, so she was generated directly from the fire. So she has a Svayamvara, every king on the planet is there, including the Yadu dynasty, like that. So then... And she can pick anyone. But the one that she picks are brahmanas that have nothing. They sleep on the floor with deer skins. But when she lay down that first night on the deerskin at the feet of her husbands, when you have five husbands, you can't sleep next to everyone, therefore you sleep at their feet. [Laughter] But she was as comfortable as sleeping in her bed in her palace with all facilities. So she knows they are just some simple brahmanas, but it's special.

But the point is is, even if it's simple and austere, then that becomes the specialness of her husband. Every woman has to feel that her husband is special. Does that make sense? So, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. If it's very clear what's there, then it will work, there is no surprises later. You know what I am saying? So it's very... Then, if she accepts it, then she is willing to work with it. Does that make sense? So there is not a fight. Then it's a matter of her husband is very simple and austere and that's what makes him... that's what's important for her. So that's why if the husband remains the way he was when they got married, then that specialness remains. Women appreciate power, power that's gently applied. Just like men like power that's more roughly applied, woman appreciates power that's gently applied according to their nature. Does it make sense? "Here is something so powerful, but it's considerate and it deals with me like this." So that makes them very confident and very surrendered. Surrender comes from confidence. When a woman is confident, she always surrenders. Doesn't mean she won't have attitude, it always depends whether she'll be right or left. Means, left will make it obvious for possession, while the right hides it more. Does that make sense? And, in that simple lifestyle the tendency will be whatever is the maximum you can get for it, that's what [indistinct]. You know what I am saying?

In other words, your determination is to be simple, and you are comfortable with that. But the woman is trying to get the most developed of simple. [Laughter] So if you are consistent in your determination, but liberal in your application, then it will work. Because they also can't be consistent in how they appreciate simplicity. So they'll go through stages, be more... trying to get more out of it, then be comfortable with less, more, less. Point is, if you deal properly, they won't go away. Because facilities for women is actually secondary. Facilities are options for experience. The more the facility, the more the options, but it's not that they use all the options, they just like that it's there. If they wanted, they could use it, but they may not use it, because nothing is ever done consistently. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: So in the husband and wife relationship, the infatuation that you mentioned, is it necessary to do that?

HH BVPS Maharaja: No. At the same time you could just ask yourself that question. The point is is do you need it? If you don't need it, then you just have to be considerate, then confidence will be there. If you need infatuation, then you have to be over-considerate, because that generates over-confidence. You know what I am saying? The girl is so confident in the situation that she is jumping up and down and [indistinct] herself in front of the rock band. But because everybody else is doing it she feels comfortable. No one else is doing it, then she won't feel so confident, therefore you won't see infatuation.

The question you have to ask yourself is, why did you get married? What is it that is distracting you from Krishna? Because there's always remember Him, never forget. We focus on always remembering, we hear, we chant, we are doing all kinds of nice services for the Lord. So, operating those activities without offense then gives immeasurable result. But because we... even though it's more powerful, we are conditioned. So we tend to place elements of our conditioned nature as equally as important, or sometimes more important than the spiritual. That's our Maya. So now, you have to be very clear what is your Maya, then you can get rid of it. If you are so absorbed in hearing and chanting that nothing else comes to your mind, of course, that's the best. But if there is a distraction, you should know exactly what that distraction is, and then through using these definitions of the Shastra connect back to Krishna by dealing with it according to how Krishna says you should. And in the beginning you actually do it for the desire of getting results. So in the beginning one out of attachment deals with the women properly, then finding that that gets the best interaction. Means, the men get married to women because of emotional support and the pleasantness of the interaction. So only if a woman is happy, does that happen. Therefore if you follow these principles, they are happy. Then that emotion and all that that you are expecting, you get. But with more maturity in devotional service, then you start to see that, well, actually that's not the real purpose. The real purpose is to develop our love for Krishna. So then you still perform exactly the same dealings with the women, because according to the definition of Shastra, that's the duty of a man towards a woman. So now he performs it because he should perform it. He'll actually do it better, because he doesn't have any motive behind it. So the wife will become even happier, and his result is, he'll become liberated. Prescribed duty performed with knowledge, with detachment gives you liberation. And doing things for Krishna, remembering Krishna, to please Krishna, that gives you bhakti. So that's the formula of buddhi-yoga. Perform your duties, that means according to Shastra, with knowledge, that means you know how it works and how to operate it, without attachment, means, it's  naishkarmya, you are doing it to please Krishna, because this is what should be done, remembering Krishna and to please Krishna, so that's the complete form of buddhi-yoga. Perform your duties, that's karma-yoga, with knowledge and without desire for result, that's jnana-yoga, remembering Krishna, that's dhyana-yoga, for Krishna's pleasure, that's bhakti-yoga. Does that make sense? So that's Bhagavad-gita. Is that okay?