MAN WOMAN INTERACTION LECTURE #15 Eger, Hungary, 7th Aug 2007 Part 1

HH BVPS Maharaja: Any questions?

Prabhu: It was mentioned that where our focus goes, naturally that activity gives us better results, or proper results. But sometimes devotees have this concept that if they do some service, which is not in accordance with their conditioned nature, then they will advance more effectively in Krishna consciousness.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Why is that? Austerity means the performance of one's prescribed duties. You know what I am saying? Means, in other words, in the Vedic system we see, brahmanas, their austerity is studying and teaching. So it's said that a brahmana performs, even though he is wearing a garland of flowers, he performs the highest austerity, the most extreme austerity up to the tips of his nails by studying the shastra and teaching it. And so, that's generally what brahmanas are the best at. Kshatriya, his austerity is protection, he protects the citizens to the best of his ability, so that's what kshatriyas are good at. The brahmanas are the mouth, they speak, you hear, you read, you speak. Kshatriyas are the arms, the arms protect. Vaishyas, their austerity is to generate economic development and give in charity, so that's what they are the best at. And shudras is to assist the other three without feeling bad about it, so that's what they are best about. So that's Manu Samhita. So that's what's considered the best austerity for those 4. So why would you say, by not performing your prescribed duty that Krishna says is what you should do in the Gita, perform your prescribed duty, thinking of Me, for Me, why would it be considered more effective for Krishna's service that you do something you are not good at?

The cook likes to cook, so therefore he should fix the cars. And the mechanic, he should take care of the kitchen. Does that make any sense? So is the purpose of Krishna consciousness to do something that you feel bad about and therefore you think you are advancing, or is Krishna consciousness to do something that pleases Krishna, and therefore you are advancing? Right? Does that make sense? So that means, if you do something you don't like to do, then you think about it. So it creates some focus, but at the same time is, what's the quality? Because all you are thinking is, "I got to surrender, I got to surrender," you are not thinking how to do this nicely. Right? What would Krishna be more pleased with? The cook who is thinking, "Okay, I could cook it this way or I could do that, that would be nicer for Krishna," or the one who is thinking, "I got to surrender, I hate this cooking, I got to surrender." You know, which is Krishna gonna be more pleased with? Right?

We've read the pastimes of Krishna or read the pastimes of Lord Caitanya. Do you find that the devotees there are riding in pain and lauding what they are doing, but they are doing it for Krishna? Only when you are unhappy, then it can be Krishna consciousness. Right? Krishna says, "Do your duties for Me, without attachment." That's already austerity. Why is it it has to be painful? Right? That's why you don't see many people in the temple. That's why you don't see many serious grihasthas. Because unless it hurts, it can't be spiritual. So how is this mentality helping?

Prasada is Krishna. Is Krishna nice? Do the devotees appreciate Krishna? You go into the temple, you see how nice are the Deities dressing? Then you go, "Oh, I can't look because it looks nice and that will be sense gratification, I am enjoying Krishna, so I shouldn't look at Krishna! Oh, can't smell the incense, it's sense gratification." So then why is it sense gratification to eat prasadam? Or have a pleasant time with devotees? So why is, how does that come up as a concept that that's even spiritual? Okay, maybe you give up your sense gratification, but how do we give up our sense gratification? By engaging it in Krishna's service. Do you understand? So that means, a whole field, means, basically all we do all day is deal with our senses. That's our connection to the world. Right? So if we feel, if our connection to the world is bad, therefore then it's spiritual? But we have to remember, getting out of the material world, does that mean getting into the spiritual world? If you get out of the material world, are you automatically in the spiritual world? No, you have to get into the spiritual world by having affection for Krishna. You love Krishna, you go back to Godhead. You hate the material world, you don't go back to Godhead. It might get you out of the material world, but it won't get you into the spiritual world. You know what I am saying?

So then why is it doing a service that you don't like then that's going to develop love for Krishna? Means, Krishna could have said, "Okay, Arjuna, the real problem with you on this battlefield is because you are a kshatriya, you like being a kshatriya, so therefore, if you really wanna please me, get off this chariot, get up a shovel and start picking up all the cow dung and horse dung and elephant dung that's falling on this field, then you'll really please Me!" Isn't that what Krishna said? "Or another way you could really please Me is surrendering to Duryodhana and just doing whatever he says you should do." Right? Did He ever say that? Right? Krishna arranged Arjuna on the battlefield, arranged Yudhisthira to be the king, He arranges the Maya Danava to make that sabha, assembly hall. All things that kshatriyas hate, all kshatriyas hate to be emperor of the world, would hate to have an assembly hall that has never been seen anywhere in the universe, they would hate to have a qualified, beautiful wife like Draupadi, they hate to be trained by a qualified teacher like Dronacarya, that's why they were, the Pandavas were so advanced. No?

See, the point is is, the senses are engaged in Krishna's service, the point is is if it's nice what's the problem? But that niceness is not for you. You are in the Deity room dressing the Deities. It smells bad in there, right? Before they start the Puja then they drag the garbage in there to make sure the Pujaris don't in any way enjoy the environment. Right? And then they for music, then you put on "Iron Maiden" or something... [Laughter] And then in that way then it's an annoying disruptive atmosphere that's perfect for doing Deity worship. Right? Does that make sense? And all the clothes have to not fit, so that you have to fight with them and have to use 20 pins to get it to work and... None of the colors match, you know, that way then you won't feel satisfied with the arrangement. Does that make sense?

So that's the point, is that you go in the Deity room, it's nice, but it's not for you, it's for Krishna. If it's got to be like that, how are you gonna like going to Vrindavana, Vrindavana is a nice place. It looks nice, smells nice, it's nice to be in. So you are not gonna like to go back to Godhead, because it's nice, because spiritual means not nice, right? Isn't it? So the whole idea is that the senses are engaged in the sense objects that are connected to Krishna. Therefore you hear the Holy Name, you see the Deities, you smell the incense, you taste the prasadam. Sense gratification that's not useful, that's avoided, but engaging the senses, what's the problem? You know what I am saying?

So where would this stem from? Impersonalism works like this. "I've been engaged in this world for long time and I've been absorbing myself in beauty, wealth, power, influence, fame, I had so many relationships, family relationships, social relationships, political relationships, I've engaged my senses in so many ways. And in all of these things ultimately there was no satisfaction, there was some pain. So that's obviously material life. So now I've understood the real solution to material life is spiritual life. So spiritual life means no... Means, the opposite of the material life. So in the material life I had relationships, in spiritual there must be no relationships. Material life, there was senses, therefore spiritual life means no senses. Material life meant different qualities of people and interactions, and so spiritual means no qualities." Right? You see where we are going?

So this idea that unless it hurts it's not spiritual, what might we conclude is the basis of that perspective? It's coming from Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy? No. It's just our own made-up concept. In the performance of our duties there may be things that come up we may not like to do, but they are needed to be done, so they are done. Right? So therefore ideally we can be engaged in Krishna's service according to what we like to do. Right? That's, of course, as long as you know what is your nature and you are adjusted with it. As of right now I don't know, we don't have a service where you can sit on the sofa all day and read comic books and play with the remote. So it may be hard to really find something you really like to do. But we could maybe put up a message out on free forum or something to find if some temple somewhere has such an opportunity. So it's engagement according to your nature. In emergency situations then we do what's important. But emergency means temporary. Does that make sense? Okay? That's basically, this kind-of mentality makes it that actually can't understand how to connect family life or grihastha life to Krishna consciousness, because you have to be nasty with the women and everything has to be just not nice. Right? Does that make sense?

A brahmachari is known as a brahmachari, because he is neutral towards women. So why would a grihastha mean he doesn't deal nicely with women define that. You know what I am saying? So it has some pretty strange concepts of human existence. You know what I am saying? Is that okay?

So the austerity is proper performance of the duties, in knowledge, without attachment, that's already austere. Then that's done remembering Krishna, for Krishna, that's bhakti. And because we are performing our duties in knowledge without desire for results, for our self, we are doing that for Krishna, that also becomes in the fire of Krishna consciousness. So that means then our austerities become Krishna-ized. Does that make sense? Yeah?

Prabhu: I would like to have another question in connection with another topic. We hear that humility is most important, but observing myself I see that my humility is rather external repression and it's not an internal change. How can we achieve this internal improvement or change in ourselves?

HH BVPS Maharaja: By practice. Means, it always starts as external. You start with the intellectual and then you practice it. And through practice then it becomes solid, it becomes one's value. Does that make sense? Okay?

Mataji: I heard many times that couples who came to Krishna consciousness together and they had intimate relationship before, but they stop, and they have problems, either one of them, or both of them because of that, so how they can deal with it?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Through intimacy you are trying to get to a fullness or deepness of relationship. But basically if someone is untrained, then the quality of their emotional interaction is actually not very deep. Right? So if they get very intimate, then it's obviously that it's got some depth to it seemingly. But it may not get beyond the physical, actual consideration. Right? Does that make sense? So the point is is if you improve the quality of the relationship, so that you are dealing actually properly on the emotional platform, then the emotions become the main center of the exchange rather than the senses. Does that make sense? So then you can find a better balance. Does that make sense? Yeah, otherwise then if that's the only way that they kind-of relate to each other, then they'll have problems. So therefore if they emotionally relate to each other, then the senses basically just support the emotions. So the manifestation will work much better. Does that make sense?

Mataji: And there is a second point, that what if one of them wants to go close to the other one, too close, and then how can the other one stop it?

HH BVPS Maharaja: You distract it into something else. You know what I am saying? Basically, that's it. If it's the man is being more agressive, then the woman naturally, their whole attitude is always stopping the man's, obstructing the man's aggression. So then that one is easy, because that they do anyway, but you can just be more of an obstacle than you know... Does that make sense? Because generally the other way, if it's the other way, it would generally be symptomatic that the man is not dealing so much in an emotional way. So the woman's interest is in the romantic aspect, so if the man is able to generate that, it doesn't have to go really beyond that. You know what I am saying? So basically, if that's understood by the men, then it makes all this kind-of much easier to deal with. Means, he won't interpret things as sensual, or sexual, he'll understand it's romantic. Does that make sense? Is that okay?

Mataji: I read in the shastra that in order to make profit the vaishyas are allowed to cheat on others, and my question is that if a devotee during the business can be cheating others, and even among devotees?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Where did you read they can cheat?

Mataji: It's mentioned in the Bhagavatam that a vaishya's nature is to make profit and in that they can lie and cheat.

HH BVPS Maharaja: "Lie" I understand, but he used the word "cheat"?

Mataji: [indistinct 31:30]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Okay, so then you have to know what "cheat" means. In the 6 ways that one can make money, so trade is called "satyanrita" which means "half truth, half lie." So half truth, half lie means, you don't have to, you never tell anybody actually how much you bought it for. So you could say that's cheating or lying , that's what it means. Or if you find a way to get into a situation to make the money before someone else, you do it, because the vaishya's business is to make money. But the other half of it is to give in charity. Half being a proportion one can also consider in the portion. Half means, profit. Does that make sense? Means, there is no profit, then there is no charity. But if there is no profit, you are not living. So if you are living, there is profit, which means there is charity. You know what I am saying? So if it's a new business, you are basically re-investing everything, you still have to live, so profit is a little bit, so the charity is little. But as the business is established, then profit becomes big, then charity becomes big. Otherwise, why should they be generating money, if it's not for the benefit of society? So shudras are gonna benefit, because they are taking care of them. Kshatriyas are gonna benefit, because they pay tax, and the brahmanas and the unfortunate are gonna benefit because of charity. Does that make sense? So pay, you have to pay, otherwise they don't work. Tax, you have to pay, because otherwise they close you down, but charity is something you could give or not give, so you have to give. That's why that's the austerity. Does that make sense? You know what I am saying? So even devotees, you can't tell them how much it cost you. From what I know in Mayapur they said that when you are dealing in the community, that it should be less price to the devotees than it is to outside. Everywhere in the world business people in one area get together and amongst themselves they sell things, buy and sell cheaper, but to anyone outside then that's where they make more profit. Right? I mean, they call it like chamber of commerce, heard of it? Does that make sense?

Mataji: You said that relationships have to be based on duty, relationships between husband and wife, parents and children. And if someone's relationships with his or her partner and children and parents work well, but the person has problems in other types of relationship, then what can be the cause of these problems?

HH BVPS Maharaja: They are just not applying the same principles in the other relationships. Relationships function on the same principles, detail is different. Does that make sense? The doctor applies the same principles of medicine on everybody. But the detail of what medicine he gives is according to the particular detail of the sickness. So you have to apply the same principles in the other relationships. Does that make sense?

Mataji: How can one deal with the internal conflict that in the process of purification one feels that one is losing his or her identity or that one feels that that's not the real identity?

Translator: I can't hear the beginning.

HH BVPS Maharaja: She is saying that in the process of devotional service, when you are purifying yourself, how do you work with that you feel you are losing your identity, even though you know it's not real? But identity is always replaced, "I am this body" with "I am servant of Krishna." So as a devotee of Krishna I engage myself in Krishna's service. Then according to what is my conditioned nature, that's the kind of service I can do nicely for Krishna, so therefore I am actually finding. Means, besides, when I find my spiritual identity, then I also actually find my material identity, because self-realization means, you understand the body, the mind, the intelligence and the consciousness. Does that make sense? So it's only someone who is on the path of self-realization can really understand who they are. You may lose who you think you are, but if who we think we are and what we actually are, if they are different, then it's not actually a loss. Does that make sense? So there is no loss.

Mataji: So we shouldn't freak out if we are finding this?

HH BVPS Maharaja: We shouldn't freak out? Well, what we are trying to do is actually get the freak out. [Laughter] In other words, before taking up Krishna consciousness we were a freak. And now we deal with the reality. Is that okay? You know what I am saying? We may have had a false identity of our false identity, but we have to bring it in the reality of what is the identity, actually. You know what I am saying?

Mataji: Is it realistic that we can actually create a proper or a true false identity while we are conditioned?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, just means you use your intelligence. We have a knife and I think this is the best, greatest knife there is. It's fancy, it's curved, it looks dangerous, has all kinds of guards for the hand on it built in. A "me-knife." So I think here it is, mister Super, go out there and wipe out the whole, you know, whatever it is, you know, army with my knife. A veritable modern Parashurama. But then I figure out that the knife is not sharp, so in reality I have the meanest, coolest butter knife in the whole of Hungary. [Laughter] So then in the morning when I butter my kiffle, I can do it with panache.

Translator: Panache?

HH BVPS Maharaja: You don't know panache?

Translator: It's a French word, but I don't know what it is.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Panache means, yeah, it's with deserving but slightly over-the-top, yeah, no, yeah, deserving but very obvious flair and, you know, style. Does that make sense? So that's just reality. It's like this. We have five senses, what are they good for? You know what I am saying? You have one that is outstanding, like I read about one person in France who insured his nose for a million dollars, because he does all the perfumes. We won't even bring up what J. Lo. insured.

Translator: What...

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's one of those ones, if you didn't catch it, don't bother.

Prabhu: Jennifer Lopez.

Translator: [In Hungarian] Jennifer Lopez...

HH BVPS Maharaja: I didn't say Jennifer Lopez, I said J. Lo. [Laughter] That means, if they know what I am talking about, they know, if they don't know, they don't know. Does that make sense? What is your intelligence, what can you do with it? What kind of emotional needs and position are you in? Is it stronger, is it weaker, it's you can support others, you need to be more supported? You know, in the conditioned nature is, how much is my controlling and enjoying tendency? Right? And put that all together, add that all up, draw a line, and hopefully, below the line it doesn't say, "Freak." You know what I am saying? So then looking at that then you can see, "Okay, this is what I can do for Krishna." Right? Does that make sense? Is that okay? Does that work? So that means, you can be identified, one just has to be willing to see it. Like that, so then you just go through everything, what's necessary, what you need, what you don't need. How simple, how sophisticated, how complicated, how... You know what I am saying? In other words, if clothes don't matter to you, then you wear enough that others will think it's okay, but you don't worry more than that. Or if clothes are important, then you wear nice clothes nicely, so that they can be appreciated by the devotees and others. Does that make sense? See, you just balance what will work. Okay?

Maybe we should make up a special kind of cleansing solution for washing the conditioned nature? And we can call it "Freak Out." [Laughter]

Prabhu: If in relationship the Mataji has problems with the Prabhu, but she instead of communicating it to the man...

HH BVPS Maharaja: If Mataji has relationship, problems with the relationship...

Prabhu: The woman, the wife or the woman has problems with the man, but she doesn't communicate what her problems are to the man, but she, instead she discusses these problems with her friends, and so what can be done in this case, or what was that the man has done wrong?

HH BVPS Maharaja: So are those friends that the wife discusses it with going to tell the husband?

Prabhu: No.

HH BVPS Maharaja: So wouldn't it be better she tells someone who will tell them? In other words, you tell someone who can tell them the problem and what is the solution. And then the man should be sensitive on that things are going right. Well, let's... Means, if you have a man, and you ask him how he feels, and it's, you can have "Okay." What does that mean? It's not good, it's not bad, it's okay, it's working, it's functioning. Does a woman ever say, "Okay"? It's either, "Okay!!" or "Okay..." So it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to understand if something is not going right. Right? They are either chirpy or grumpy, there is nothing in-between, so if they are chirpy, then they are happy, and if they are grumpy, they are not. And so, if you identify "grumpy" then it doesn't turn into Methuselah. Right? So then the man would be doing something wrong in that he can't identify that she is not happy. Right? So if he is not, does not understand, he should ask. Means, first try to figure it out. If you can't do that, ask. And in asking then it has to be that what she says he is gonna take seriously. Otherwise, if she says and he doesn't take it seriously, she won't say anymore. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: And if that confidential friend who is going to tell the husband the problems revealed by the wife, would the wife consider that a betrayal on the part of the friend, or if the man inquires from the confidential friend about what can the possible problems be, and the friend tells him, would the wife consider the action of the husband as spying? And the man does all that after inquiring from the wife, after having tried the inquiring from the wife.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Point is is, why wouldn't she say, unless she's had an experience that by saying he doesn't take it seriously? You know what I am saying? So generally the men would deal directly, unless it's somebody that he knows she uses as a medium to express things to him. Right? Does that make sense? In other words, you would only ask that person that you know that the wife has fided into in such a way that she, that person would then tell and instruct the husband. And he'd be only asking if everything is going okay. But the point is is, if you have to ask, means you don't know. And if you don't know, means, there is some problem. Do you understand? So generally the.. In other words, the wife might use this, but generally the husband wouldn't use that system. But he can use it in the opposite, telling someone confidential, I mean, telling a confidential friend who would possibly relate it to the wife how nicely she is doing and how important she is and this and that, that you can tell. Anything that you don't like, that should be told directly. Does that make sense?

Mataji: It's continuing this question, that if the man is not sensitive, then is there a process how he can become sensitive?

HH BVPS Maharaja: If the man is not sensitive, is there a process how he can become sensitive? I guess, the bluntest example would be, there is an item that you have here in Hungary and it's got a long wooden handle and on the end of the long wooden handle there is kind-of like this rectangular long cubic metal piece, and on the two ends of this metal piece there is all these like jagged pure metal points. And by applying that with force on organic substances it becomes soft. But one has to know how to use it. In other words, you have to make him feel that it's really worth his while to be sensitive. You know what I am saying? In other words, when he sees the profit in being sensitive, then there is inspiration to follow that. So you try nicer approaches, and as the nicer approach doesn't work then you start using a little bit more and more strong approaches. Just be sure to turn it every now and again. Does that make sense? [Laughter]

Mataji: But you said that there are some things that the woman has to work on, and some things that the man has to work on, so how can they work on these things from the man's side?

HH BVPS Maharaja: If they both are working on what is they should be doing, then the process works very easily and quickly. If only one party is working, then it will work, but it'll take more time, and there will be a lot more trouble. So it will require more tolerance and patience in that, but it will work with time. There may be times that you may consider whether it's worth it to make it work, but if you keep at it long enough, it will. While if they are both working on it, then it means that, one, they have a common ground for discussion, and two, then it just makes it much, much quicker. Does that make sense?

Mataji: So on the sensitivity they have to work together?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes, the balance for sensitivity is satisfaction. If a woman is satisfied, is she sensitive? Right? If she is not satisfied, is she sensitive? Do you understand? So the woman focuses on satisfaction, the man focuses on sensitivity. Right? So the woman is already clever, the man has to become clever, because if he is clever, then his sensitivity will work. Stupid sensitivity is also not much appreciated. Right?

Mataji: I always try to apply what I have heard in these classes, but sometimes I see that for months I am just unable to apply them, and when I look at the problem of why I am unable to apply what I have heard, I find that because I have this concept that "my mother did it differently," and so it's very difficult to get rid of these patterns that we see, and what's your suggestion, how to get rid of these patterns?

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's just practice. In other words, if what the mother did is in line with what we say, it works nicely. If someone held their marriage together, there's some element of what we are talking about that they are applying. So then that's not a problem, it's a problem is where they weren't so good at. So that's just the intelligence, then we apply. So contemplate this, in other words, the situation that you didn't apply it, afterwards think about it, how should I have applied it, or how could I have applied it? So if you regularly always do that, that contemplation, then after a while you'll start, it will start, it will manifest within your application. You know what I am saying? So in the beginning you will, you may forget about it, and then remember, "Oh, I should have done that." Then with time then you'll start to be able to see, "I should have done that" basically kind-of immediately after it happened. And if you keep practicing and contemplating, then you'll get it where while you are doing the activity and making the mistake, you remember what you should do and you correct it at the time. And then with time then you'll start to understand what you should do before you do it. So it's just practice, it takes time, these things may take months or years, some of them, to apply. In other words, if you have a problem with anger, that part will take longer. If you don't have a problem with anger, then those things will go easily and then something else may be a problem. You know what I am saying? Like that.

Mataji: How does it endanger the woman's security if the man glorifies the wife to others, especially males, other male?

HH BVPS Maharaja: How does it endanger the woman's security? It means, it's someone who... Generally, that would be someone who is in the family, like a sister or someone, someone who you know would be favorable towards the person, so it would be appreciated, or, you know, you tell the mother, or the father, or like that. Does that make sense? Generally, it wouldn't be needed to do, because women have no problem with being told nice things to their face. Just saying, if it comes up in a conversation, if they ask how things are going, then you'll say, "Oh, it's very nice," and like that. In other words, he wouldn't share problem with outside. You know what I am saying? Like men can discuss principles that are there and then how to better apply that. But otherwise they won't talk details, because somehow or another it always has a way of getting back to the wife. [Laughter] Is that okay?

Prabhu: Can I have a question in connection with the sadhana of grihasthas?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Sadhana of grihasthas? What is this "sadhana of grihasthas"?

Prabhu: Because if one lives in the temple, the sadhana is simpler, it's according to the temple program, and if I am sleeping, then I get, I am woken up, but if I live outside the temple and if I live far away from the temple or I work until late, then it's more difficult to attend temple programs, so what should be pushed more, that we should go to the temple more, or we should create environment at home which are like... We should make a temple at our home and have all the programs there?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Depends how close or far you are. So if you are close, then it's very easy to come to the temple. But if you are far, then you follow the program at your house. And more major programs, you go to the temple, or another time of the day, or something. You know what I am saying? Like that. So if you live two hours away from the temple, you definitely wanna make your house into a temple. That doesn't mean because you are two hours away from the Eger temple and you happen to be in Budapest that you make your house into a temple and don't go to the Budapest temple. [Laughter]

Prabhu: So the problem is that service takes a lot of time and I finish late and then I have household duties also.

HH BVPS Maharaja: If you finish late, you must start late, so then you adjust things around. Does that make sense? Yes? No?

Prabhu: Yes.

Prabhu: Yesterday it was mentioned that we are sitting on the top of a goldmine, that we have so much valuable shastras like Ayurveda or Vastu shastra, which can be very practically, which can be used in everyday life in a very practical way. Ayurveda helps us to be more happy in our body, and Vastu shastra helps us construct nice buildings, and could you say a few words about Dhanur-Veda, how it can be usefully applied in our everyday life, so what part it occupies in the goldmine we are sitting on?

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's called Dojo. [Laughter] And then you have membership, you have classes, you can organize and run a security company, like that.

Prabhu: And could you give a few words definition of what the essence of Dhanur-Veda is, or the essence is just protection?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Essence is protection, but you are using physical force as the means to obtain it. In other words, when diplomacy has failed, then physical force is used. You know what I am saying? So, it's all part of, means, in other words, why would one fight if you can deal with it politically? Because in a fight then someone who is better can sometimes lose to someone who is not. So fighting is always unknown, while diplomacy then there is minimal problem. Does that make sense? So protection is the underlying principle. If fighting is the main thing, then that means that's not a kshatriya, that's a kshatriya's assistant. So much of the time like bodyguards and that, they are actually not kshatriyas, they are artists whose art is martial. Does that make sense? So they can assist those who actually understand the principle of protection. You know what I am saying? They like to fight, but they don't know who and when they should fight. So someone who does know, tells them. Otherwise they just make trouble. Right? Is that okay? Yeah.

Prabhu: So I have the example of Kazakhstan where obviously diplomacy has failed. And my question is whether this kshatriya culture has any place in our varnashrama, or we just go on without the kshatriya values and...

HH BVPS Maharaja: No, but there you see that they are still using. Kshatriya doesn't just fight. You have to know how to make allies, you have to know the circle of neighbors, in other words, your neighbor who is an enemy, his neighbor is your ally, because he is his enemy also. And if both of you fight him at once, he can't fight on two sides at once, that way you'll both win. So by being ally with the enemy's neighbor, then you keep the enemy in check and everybody is peaceful. If you are too weak, then you make allies with those who are stronger, and if things aren't favorable now, then you wait and watch. So those are all principles that the kshatriyas follow. You have somebody else who is doing something that's similar, you move with them. Does that make sense? So therefore peace, marching, making allies, retreating, neutrality, these are the 6 rules that they follow, like that. And then along with that then speaking nicely, gifts, consequences and then war. So the combination of those then makes things work. And then understanding the circle of neighbors then your diplomacy will work.

Prabhu: So I have mentioned Sun Tzu's work "The Art of War", which is valued all over the world, and from you were saying, I conclude that... And I have read that book and the principles are quite similar. And yesterday you mentioned, the topic was woodcarving, and you mentioned that woodcarving is the same all over the world. So the question is, is the martial art, or the art of war and diplomacy the same all over the world, and if it is, then the Vedic version, is it superior to other version? And if it is then in what respect?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, the Vedic version will have the complete science in its natural proportions. Just like you have Machiavelli. So he will be saying the same thing also, but it's much more avaricious, much more aggressive. So it's not, the principle is not so much protection as gain. So gain is one of the elements of protection, because if you wanna protect the kingdom then you have to gain either territories that are important for maintaining your kingdom, or for protecting. In other words, if there is a hill next to your town, to protect the town you want the hill. You know what I am saying? because otherwise, if they have the hill, the enemies, then your town is in danger. So your point is not you want to fight, or you wanna expand your kingdom. You wanna protect your people. So therefore you expand it like that. You know what I am saying? Or you might go into another kingdom, if it's being run so badly that people are suffering, therefore you might go in and adjust things. Right? So the Vedic concept is based on peace and protection. But to maintain that, there are people who are more materialistically aggressive than they should be. Therefore you have diplomacy and war.

So these others, then it may be that all those elements will be there, but the proportions may be different. So the Vedic proportions are in their natural position. Does that make sense? Because it's come from Krishna, so it's in its perfect manifestation. Does that make sense? So that's why anywhere else they have a body of knowledge and if somehow or other it does work, that's because it's actually based on the Vedic knowledge, or its basis is the Vedic knowledge. Does that make sense? So, but there may be such a distance in time between when that body of knowledge was connected to the Vedas and its present position, that that connection may not be seen. Does that make sense? But if anything works, it's because it's connected to Krishna's laws of nature. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: So I don't know whether my understanding is correct, but my understanding is that, from what you said is that there are many martial arts in India also, but the essence is not how one is dressed, but whether what he does is working. And if it's working, it's because it's according to Krishna's laws. So if it works, it should be correct.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, but it's not that there is not superior forms of what's correct. You know what I am saying? Even within something that's following the law there is something that's actually following more of it. Right? A lock works, why does a lock work? It will be seen, okay, you are doing this with this joint or with that joint, but you are still working off the center. You know what I am saying? But instead of something flowing...

Translator: Oh, a lock in fighting?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes, not on the door. [Laughter] But it's moving off the center, but instead of it flowing, it's creating a stoppage. So in other words, someone who can understand where the center is or how something is moving around that, will be more successful than someone who only knows a technique. You know what I am saying? So, someone will know "this works," but someone knows why it works. So if you know why it works, then it's always better than just... You know what I am saying? Just like a cook who knows a recipe can be a good cook, but someone who knows what is cooking will be a better cook, because it's very rare that everything is there in perfection according to the recipe. You know what I am saying? The person writing the book spent days getting all the ingredients, testing it this way, that way, until they got the recipe. You know what I am saying? So it took him days to get that recipe right. Does that make sense? So that's the whole point, because they knew the cooking, they could make the recipe right. Do you understand? So someone who only knows technique will never be as good as actually someone who knows what is the movement of the energies. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: Just as you are talking about grihastha life, and how the woman works and how the man works, and if we know the principles we know how to deal with them, it's the same with anything else like martial arts that we know that if we move the finger this way it hurts and if we move this way, it doesn't hurt, so if we know the principles behind things then we can make things work?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, means just like finger is moving this way, it hurts, that's because that's the center. So if you know that, then this person turns it this way and then this goes this way. But to do that you have to know that this is the center, so then from here I can turn this this way, then it will go that way. So if you understand the principle it's working on, then it's easy to make it work. So so many side things just go away, side details or difficulties go away when you operate on the principles. You know what I am saying?

Prabhu: So there are four principles in martial arts, and they say that if a person knows these principles, then he knows martial arts. Is it the same for the Vedic? And the four principles are distance, direction, balance and [indistinct 01:32:11]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah. But those are the situation. So if you can identify the situation, that's always a first step in a relationship. But within that you have to know what is each element, what is their relationship themselves? Right? If you don't know the relationship between distance and time, still you are not... So you have to know the relationship between all four the elements, what each element adds to the equation, and then what results you could gain from the interaction of those elements. Right? And then how you would actually apply the interaction between those elements to get the particular result you want. So in other words, what's happening is, they focus on those four elements, but they are most likely talking about those other things I just mentioned. Right? So the person who can actually use it, knows those things. But unless you tell the students, they may or may not gain that. Therefore some people are great at certain technique, but they actually don't know what's going on. You know what I am saying? So in the Vedic concept you are teaching actually what is the relationship, how it actually works. Does that make sense? So that's why that approach is considered superior, because right from the beginning it's understood what's going on. So in other words, there is practices that have a natural progression, the skills, and then there is training in actually what's going on. And then you try to connect it to. Does that make sense? Yeah? Okay.

Prabhu: I have a question regarding karma...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Karma?

Prabhu: Yes, because yesterday we spoke about that fact devotees have so-called Krishna karma, because...

HH BVPS Maharaja: So-called Krishna karma, why is it "so-called", why not... Why it's not Krishna karma? "This so-called potato. Looks like a potato, tastes like a potato, tastes like a potato, but it's not potato..." [Laughter]

Prabhu: It's Krishna-karma... What I wanted to ask is that this karma, so Krishna removes that karma from the devotee which he has already learned the lesson from...

HH BVPS Maharaja: He may or may not.

Prabhu: And this means that , for instance, that this is acting for the planets, and actually if somebody makes an astrogram before his chanting Hare Krishna, and he makes an astrogram after that, there is a change in this...?

HH BVPS Maharaja: No. Because that, the horoscope, or the astrogram, it's called Jatika, means the planets at the time of birth. Therefore there won't be any change. The planets at the time of your birth don't change as you get older, just like the time doesn't change. You know what I am saying? It's a fixed, in other words, it's what were the... Means, in astronomy, astronomy is where are the planets. So astrology is just where are the planets at the time of your birth. Like we say, "Where are the planets for Janmashtami?" that's called astronomy. But where are the planets at the time of your birth, that's called astrology. Does that make sense on that one?

Prabhu: Astrologs, they give you some detail in the future, may have this difference or that difference because of planets being in a certain position?

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's the situation you will be in, but what's important, the situation or what you do in a situation?

Prabhu: What I do with it.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, so that's free will.

Prabhu: So the influence will be the same, but you have the free will to act as you like?

HH BVPS Maharaja: That's always there. You always have the free will to do whatever you like with whatever situation you are in. Like that. Now there is a class going on. Right? That's the pre-destiny. Your free will is to sit here and listen, to fall asleep, to talk to your friend, to play on a video game, to get up and walk around, go pick your nose, I mean, there is so much free will is there, possibilities are unlimited. Right?

So what's important is what you do with it. So those who are under the modes of nature, generally you can even say what they are gonna do with it, because they are just gonna follow the pattern of the modes. But what the devotee will do with it, that they really can't say. Conditioned nature is there, so there would be the natural tendencies, but you may or may not apply those natural tendencies. You know what I am saying? Means, you go down to the corner, get on the bus. On the bus is the whole cheer leader squad dressed in their bikinis going to the game. Right? So if you weren't a devotee you might have, in that situation might behave in one way. But now that you are a devotee, then giving it the benefit of the doubt, you will do something different. So now you will get on that thing and tease them to chant Hare Krishna, you know, "Hare Krishna.. " [Laughter] So there will be some difference in... The form may change, the form may stay the same, but consciousness is different, therefore the result will be different.

Prabhu: So the astrologs can only tell you the influence, it's not the...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, the influences, the influences, though we may call them results, because they are a result of previous activities. Right? But to us results, means, is the field. You know what I am saying. The result of a previous activity is the field for the next activity. Does that make sense? Like that. You wanna know what's going on today, you have to look in your hand. "The lunch is over here, uhh, I see a big lunch. [Laughter] Oh, okay, yeah there is a tea there. Uhhh, there is some indigestion right here." [Laughter] Is that okay?

Mataji: Maharaja, how does Vedic system deal with the corruption?

HH BVPS Maharaja: How does Vedic system deal with...?

Mataji: Deal with the corruption.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Corruption. Depends what kind of corruption it is.

Mataji: Any kind, political, [indistinct 01:43:55]

HH BVPS Maharaja: I am saying, they are different. Right? Does that make sense? Just like you have a dirty sink, you would deal with it differently than if the air is dirty. Basic principle is the same. You know what I am saying?

So if it's knowledge, then that will be corrected by knowledge. Does that make sense? If it's political, it will be corrected in that way. Economic, it will be corrected that way. Arts will be corrected that way. At the same time is, if it's corruption in the performance of one's duties, then the political element then will correct that. Does that make sense? Does that answer the question? Like that.

Mataji: So what one should do if one feels that she or he one has no one to turn to, that she's been so much disappointed that she can find no one to trust and no one to turn to for advice...

HH BVPS Maharaja: The Deities. Like that. They are always there, They never go away, you can always talk to Them, even if They are not there, if you are in your house, you can still talk to Them. And the more you find you talk with Them, the more you find that the other things aren't a problem. You know what I am saying? They are people, you can talk to Them. Right?

Mataji: So will it come to an end, at the point that these problems will cease at one point and that is there a hope that [indistinct 01:46:34] that faith?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes, and at the same time is, if you develop that relationship with Krishna, then it makes the most permanent solution. Because if you go back to Godhead, everybody is nice over there. You can trust them, they won't let you down, they are not gonna go away. You know what I am saying? Like that, so it's good. So, that's the real solution. All the other things are actually trying to get you to do that anyway, but it's not direct. In other words, you are seeing it, you are seeing the energies through a particular external medium, so you are indirectly seeing Krishna. But this way then you directly see, so it's ultimately a better solution. Is that okay?

Mataji: So if someone is not able to deal nicely with devotees or deal properly with devotees, that person would not be able to be a proper person living in the spiritual world, because they are all devotees?

HH BVPS Maharaja: No. Without Vaishnava etiquette you can't go back to Godhead. I think there is a Caitanya Caritamrta verse like that. Lord Caitanya makes that point is that you may follow the sadhana perfectly, but if you don't develop Vaishnava-achara, you won't go back to Godhead. We don't mean putting mustard oil and some spices and that kind of... We mean, etiquette. Is that okay? So that's why it's worth learning how to deal with people. Does that make sense? So then, like that.

But that's different from what she was talking about. Yeah, means, in other words, "I can't behave with anybody," that's different where "I haven't found people who I can relate to" or "they are not behaving nicely with me."

Mataji: [indistinct 01:50:27]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah.

Prabhu: Yesterday you spoke about that in our society there is changes, there are all sorts of male and female changes, that they have difficulties and a generation of society girls came up, and it is called in Hungary "singlies", sometimes you can see that even in our society [indistinct 01:51:01] that they want to stay independent [indistinct 01:51:10]. And so my question is how to relate to this phenomena, on a community level and on the individual level, and also regarding bachelors.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Singly means single?

Translator: Yeah, that's the Hungarian distortion of this word. [Laughter]

HH BVPS Maharaja: So you have... That singly is feminine?

Prabhu: Yes, only feminine. But also bachelors...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, okay. No, but I am saying, according to the Hungarian grammar, the "-ly"....

Translator: No it' not a female ending, it's just because we don't have a female and male gender in grammar, we don't have, so "singly" is just...

HH BVPS Maharaja: So you have "singly" and "singlini." [Laughter]

Translator: Singly, because this concept... We simply say "bachelors"...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Oh, okay. So you have Bachelor of Arts and Singly of Arts?

Translator: No, it's unmarried girl, but singly is a new concept, it's the...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Unmarried girl who likes it that way?

Translator: Yeah, unmarried girl who likes it that way and who is determined to carry on successfully being single.

HH BVPS Maharaja: The Krishna consciousness means, we have standards according to tradition that in one sense are based on qualification. Does that make sense? So then... Like you can't be a grihastha unless you have a wife. Does that make sense? So then when one takes up Krishna consciousness, one starts from whatever position one is in and starts from there in the, how to get to Krishna. So in other words, if you engage the position you are in now in Krishna consciousness, then with time then things may adjust and look more traditional. Does that make sense? So it's not a problem where one starts from, but unless you know where you want to go, how will you get there? So in the beginning it's just wherever you are at you start chanting, you start following the process. And then if there is a need in lifestyle change, it will change naturally with time. Like you might have a business person, so they wear a suit. So when they start chanting Hare Krishna, then they may come to the temple, they still wear a suit. That doesn't matter, the point is to chant. So with time in association one will like the devotees and then one will be inclined to dress in devotional clothes when one comes to the temple. You know what I am saying? But you may still be wearing one's suit to work, unless one is so rich that you can do anything you want. Does that make sense? So that's the point, you start from wherever you are at and then move from there. Right? Does that answer your question? Means, the principle answers your question, but how much time that will take, that you can't say.

Prabhu: So [indistinct 01:56:48] principle...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Emphasize the other aspect... Go ahead, your example?

Prabhu: [indistinct 01:57:11]tradition....

HH BVPS Maharaja: But he doesn't play around with the girls? Not living means...? Just sometimes. Nothing more than a one-night's stand, it's very straight.

Prabhu: No.

HH BVPS Maharaja: No? [Laughter] Okay, that's the answer.

Prabhu: [indistinct 01:57:45] bachelor...

HH BVPS Maharaja: So then do it. But anything that's un-traditional should be self-supported. You know what I am saying? Since they want the independence, they should be independent. You know what I am saying? As a general principle. You know, they dont wanna live in the temple, they wanna live outside, they wanna have their job, they wanna do all that, but they just don't wanna get married, but they should be maintaining themselves, they should not expect the temple to maintain them, unless they are doing a job for the temple. And then whatever the temple is willing to give, that's how much they have. It's not according to, "Well, I would like more," no, it's a matter of what they are willing to give. You want more, you get another job. Does that make sense? So and that way...

But point is is emphasize other aspects that one can, one is more comfortable with. Does that make sense? And never preach that it's a good position. In other words, an individual has a unique position, fine, as long as they don't preach that this is good or even desirable. So in other words, they know it's not ideal, but it works for them now, and so that's the way it is. Because if they preach that this is good, then they stand very much the position of being under attack. Because devotees are broad-minded, so that means they are liberal. But it doesn't mean they don't have standards. Modern liberal means no standards, and having standards generally means, you are not very liberal. But broad-minded means, you have standards, you follow them, others may not, but you can accommodate, as long as they understand that's not actually very proper and it generates in them a mood of humility.That humility then will inspire them in their service. But if they are proud, then neither will it help their service and neither should they be associated with. Does that make sense? Okay.

Mataji: So in connection with this bachelor topic, I have heard many times from devotees who are... From devotees who are not brahmacharis, but who don't want to get married, that actually they are practicing vanaprastha. Is it something possible?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, if they are doing that, then that's, that's fine. Especially if they were... Generally you would find that position will be someone who was somehow or another involved in some variety of grihastha-grihamedhi environment. But then that means they are retired from moving in that direction of grihastha. You know what I am saying? Like that, so then that's fine. But if they are just bachelor, because they wanna keep their options open, then that's not vanaprastha. Right? Like that.

Prabhu: Does a woman need a man's protection in order to be able to go back to Godhead?

HH BVPS Maharaja: No. Pingala went back to Godhead. She was a singly. [Laughter] Don't worry, you don't have to save all the women on the planet, so they all go back to Godhead. You don't need to start a "Save The Women For Going Back to Godhead" campaign. [Laughter]

Prabhu: So that ace is lost.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah. [Laughter] Especially, if you don't have sleeves, pocket rocket...

Prabhu: Yes, yes, yes... [Laughter]

Prabhu: So sfter so many classes the men have began to feel, have began to imbue the concept that maybe... That it's the man's responsibility, that the relationship is the man's responsibility. But what if the man does everything properly, but the wife doesn't react properly, isn't there a slight responsibility on the part of the woman, too? [Laughter]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Slight? [Laugher] Slide? Ion microscope or standard microscope? Binoculars? [Laughter]

Of course, the point is, responsibility is on both sides. But what we were describing is, any action has to start somewhere. So it's the man's responsibility to start. Because if the men aren't starting it, then women will try. But the nature of women, if there is an obstacle then they tend to stop endeavoring. Means, as long as there is no obstacle, they move forward freely, as soon as there is an obstacle, they'll stop. While men, that's what they deal with is obstacles. So does that make sense? So a man who is willing to, despite the obstacles keep going and is trying to remove the obstacles, so the woman can keep going, that works.

We are making the point is that the man takes the first step. He has got to apply his intelligence, he has got to figure it out, he has to make that behavior and that approach. That's the masculine nature. Does that make sense? Means, active, audacious, that's masculine. Audacious means, despite the obstacle you still keep trying. You know what I am saying? Right? Does that make sense? Like that, so in other words, you said something. The wife says, "You know, that's crazy, you don't understand, you are stupid," this, that, bla. So he could go, "Yeah, I guess I'm stupid and I made a mistake, so, yeah, sorry..." and just leave. But that's not masculine, it keeps going. You know, try this way, try that way, until he's worked out what is the problem, and then the wife becomes trippy. Women, they will try this way and that way, but if they don't get results, they just stop, because the point was is they are only active to get the men to be active. Right? It's just like you have a pipe that you wanna use as a siphon, that means you suck on it first, but after that it's supposed to run on it's own. You are not gonna sit there and suck on it all day. That's the point. So they'll make that attempt, they'll make those things and then if it's not getting result, they'll stop. Then the man is thinking, "What happened, she was being so nice, she was doing this, she was doing that, why did she stop? Oh, she is not submissive, or she is not this, or..." No. She was simply trying to get you to do these things, and no matter how much she tried, you didn't respond, so therefore she stopped. So then the man is supposed to understand, "Oh, I am supposed to be doing these things." In other words, if a woman does something that doesn't have an obvious reason for it, it's because either you've done something for them and they are responding to that, but once they've done it, that's it, so unless you do something again, they can't respond. It's not a perpetual motion machine. You do something once, and then eternally they are gonna go on picking up your socks. So that means, you've done something, they are responding, or they want you to do something, so they are starting the action. But they expect you to continue.

Prabhu: So can we say that masculine thinking, or the symptom of masculine thinking is that I understand that what I am and the situation I am in was created by me and I am responsible for it and not someone else?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, very good, it's a good way of looking at it, but responsible means operating, so the field is increased and the activities within the field are being generated. So that may be an existing element of the field is operating the field, or the field is operated in the relationship that generates something more. You know what I am saying? So it's either way, in other words, there is already a chair there, so relationship happens around the chair, right? You talk about the chair, you sit on the chair, something is happening with this chair. Or, it may be that you decide that part of the relationship is discussing and acquiring another chair, so that both of you can sit down, instead of having to take turns. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: So my experience is that even if many persons acknowledge or notice, or are aware of this responsibility, but if he doesn't know how to express it, maybe it's courage that they are lacking to be able to operate the whole thing?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, it could be courage, but it could also be the concept that someone else is supposed to run it? Their mother always ran it, right? You know what I am saying? So that's generally why the other tradition where the boys are removed from the home and put in the school, because then he learns that things only happen because he does it. You know what I am saying? Otherwise, if he stays at home, food happens by magic, clothes get picked up and washed and ironed and put away by magic, beds and rooms and closets by magic get just organized. And whatever you want at whatever time, somehow or another magically happens, so that's called illusion. So a concept of masculinity based on that principle is illusion "I am the man, everything comes to me. Whatever I want, it happens." No, that's not called a man, that's called a boy. Therefore the boys gotta grow up.

Translator: The boys...?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Need to grow up and become a man. [Laughter]

Prabhu: If I think that I will operate the Eger yatra, and the whole of Hungarian yatra should be run by Sivarama Maharaja, and that's okay like that, that's not correct, as a follower of Srila Prabhupada we have to nurture, we have to save the whole world, and that's a proper attitude, and as a follower of Srila Prabhupada we have to become saviors of the world?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, we are... Means, we appreciate and understand and are determined to do our part in saving the world. So if the Eger yatra is what we can do as part of saving the world, then that's what we do, someone else will save Debrecen. So we do what we can as our part, it's not that if we don't save the world, it won't be saved, no, there is other people there also, so we do our part. Person who can drive a car, they go and do the marketing, go to the market. And the person who can cook, cooks a lunch. It's not that, well, only if one person does everything, is the world gonna be saved. So in other words, we see our part in saving the whole world, and so if we don't operate our part, that's going to be detrimental to the saving of the rest of the world. Right? So it's part of the machinery. So many parts and gears and this and that, and they all work together. In other words, you assist Sivarama Maharaja saving Hungary by taking care of Eger, and he is helping, he is assisting Srila Prabhupada saving the world by taking Hungary, while other Godbrothers and sisters take other parts of the world. Is that okay?

Prabhu: So the question is now that one needs intelligence to recognize what part belongs to him, and to see that's it not because of laziness or lack of intelligence that the part is too much restricted...

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yes.

Prabhu: Where does that intelligence come from, which help us identify our portion?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, you wanna know which website you go to, or...? Ebay? Amazon? Do you get any deals on it?

Prabhu: Yes.

HH BVPS Maharaja: But otherwise, we can discuss afterwards. We'll break now and then.... Okay. Jaya!

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Samaveta-bhakta-vrinda ki jaya! Jaya Nitai-Gaura-premanande Hari Haribol!

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