Man and Woman Interaction Lecture #1

MAN WOMAN INTERACTION LECTURE #1 Eger, Hungary, 31st Jul 2007

Over the next few days we will be discussing various aspects of Krishna consciousness. The main point is that one is trying to get back to Godhead, and so it's a very plausible goal, but one has to be very realistic. Realistic meaning you are dealing with the present. Realism doesn't mean the past. We learn from the past, but we are not the past. We are no more the past than we are this body. We deal with the body, but it doesn't mean that we are that. The same with we deal with past, but it doesn't mean we are that. So if you can deal with that, then you can go back to Godhead, because going back to Godhead is forward. Does that make sense?

So, in this then we'll discuss a lot on the metaphysics of things that you are very familiar with. Because you have the physical, you have the spiritual, but in-between is the metaphysical. Because that's technically why it's working, but many times we get stuck, because intellectually we don't accept something, or emotionally we can't accept something. So if things don't come to the heart naturally, then the key is the intelligence. Through the intelligence, you can make adjustment to the values of the mind. And therefore, if we know why things are working, then that makes it work better. History of it is also important, but history means, all the way back. It means, is how Krishna practices things, by His natural, spontaneous nature, and how the devotees respond to that. And then there is how the Acaryas have found best to apply these principles according to the material situation.

So ultimately what we get down to is relationship. Relationship establishes knowledge, but relationship also establishes experience. Generally, we are quite good at relationship based... the element of knowledge, sambandha-jnana. But relationship meaning the experience between individuals, that we may or may not be so good at. So means, tattva is the knowledge by which we get out of the material relationship and establish ourselves in the spiritual relationship. It's a bridge. But the point is is we are going from material relationship to spiritual. So intelligence is how to be able to tell the difference between the two. If it comes easy, good. If not, that's what the tattva is for, and specifically the metaphysics. Does it make sense? Means, we haven't given an example, so it will be a bit esoteric, but...

Another element is that in the Vedic, means, so when we take a topic, it's being based on that we are only interested in Krishna consciousness. So the whole point is is, whatever points are being made, it's based on the principle that we are going to be applying it in Krishna consciousness, and the Krishna consciousness is goal. Now, how many of you here let's say are either married or planning to get married? Okay. How many of you are not married and never plan to be married? And of those who just raised their hands, how many have no difficulty dealing with past material relationships? Okay. So, the reality is, we have to deal with the mundane. So spiritual means, you are taking mundane and connecting it to Krishna. Because the material energy is just one of Krishna's energies. Inferior energy, but it's Krishna's energy. So taking it and using it for ourselves, that's illusion. So therefore dealing with material life in such a way that you can maintain Krishna consciousness is also part of Krishna consciousness. At least the group sitting here. It's not if the last question you raised the hand also, then these discussions are not specifically for you.

Just like, let us say, we have a computer. So, we look at the computer, and if it looks nice, it looks attractive... But you'll be surprised how much people actually buy the computer because it looks good. Means, if it has some nice other qualities, then that's also appreciated. But still, even though it has all the different qualifications you want, you still want it to look nice. I knew one person that he made his own computer and he made it out of wood. So only a real hard-core nerd could appreciate that. So the point is is, the computer looks nice, but if we take it apart down to its last screw and lay it out on the table, are you attracted? Think about it. Would you be attracted? No. That's what metaphysics is for. You take the thing completely apart down to the last screw, and then you see, there is actually nothing here to be attracted to. The philosophy does that, the metaphysics does that.

Then, if you are able to actually take it apart like that and put it back together, then, one, you are going to be less attached to it than you were before, which is very important. But also as important is now that you know exactly how it's put together, you will be actually more expert in dealing with it and using it properly. Does that make sense? So this concept that ignorance is bliss does not necessarily get very long lasting or very substantial bliss. Another element, see, what we are doing is bringing you around logically, presenting things, so intellectually you can see that it's correct. Because when we pull it down to reality of your life, we don't want the mind to be reactive, saying, "Oh, it doesn't make sense," or "This is not logical or not practical."

Another principle that we'll be dealing with from the Vedic academy is that you explain a particular topic in context where it has the greatest, widest, deepest application. Just like let's say if we wanted to explain driving a vehicle, would we use a tricycle, or a skateboard, or a bicycle, or would we use a car? So like that, then you'll find a lot... Means, so, since we are dealing with philosophy then you are gonna be seeing a lot of technicalities, a lot of Sankhya, but taking it apart. But in a relationship that's experienced then of all the five rasas, which rasa includes everything? Yeah, madhurya. And so that specifically means, relationship between the masculine principle and the feminine principle. We are not talking about the physical interaction, we are talking about the principle of masculinity, the principle of femininity. Does that make sense? So you may hear that a lot.

So, and then, the central theme will always be the elements of sambandha, abhideya and prayojana. Anyone here not familiar with sambandha, abhideya and prayojana? Everybody knows? [Indistinct] [Laughter] No, I'am just joking... [Indistinct] Means, sambandha means relationship. Abhideya means process, and prayojana means goal. Sambandha has two major parts, the field of activities and the desire to interact with that field of activities. There is a difference between desire and need. How many things would you want? How many things do yo actually need? So which one do you actually endeavor for? In other words, what you feel, you need, so there is a difference. Need is prayojana, desire that's still sambandha. If a boy is attracted to a girl, that's only attraction, there is no need. And so, he just sits there and looks. When there is a need, he goes up and talks to her. See the difference? It's important.

Another thing that we'll be referring to a lot is the four Deities: Sankarshana, Pradyumna, Aniruddha and Vasudeva. Sankarshana means, the field. Means, it's the field, it's the definition of things, it's the technical relationship between things, it's the results that you can get, you can say, their purposes in gaining the result, in operating the different elements of the field. Does that make sense? In other words, we have a car, so the car is the field. So there is the car, there is the road, there is the driver, if you don't have these three, nothing happens. So a field means, it has the possibility to perform an action and get a result. Does that make sense? If there is not enough there, like you have a glass, and that's it, it's not a field. There has to be glass, there has to be liquids in the glass, there has to be some use for the liquids in the glass. So the field contains everything, results that can be gotten, processes that can be used, but they are inactive.

Then, when there is attraction to a result, I mean, to an activity that can be performed with that field, that's Pradyumna. Pradyumna is attraction, Pradyumna is Cupid. Does that make sense? Then, when there is a desire to therefore obtain the result that's being gotten from operating that field, that's Aniruddha. Aniruddha is the Moon, it's the mind, the emotions, the experience. If you get a result, but experience is not good, would you call that a good activity? No. So that's why it's not actually adding to the field or extending the field that we are looking for in relationship. We are looking for the experience gained by what expands the field. Do you understand what we mean by expanding the field? Means, okay, you have a person, you have a job, by now operating that job you get money. Now, money now becomes... it was your goal at the job, but it becomes now a part of your field. So, now there is you and money. Now you can use the money to therefore get something. He uses money therefore to buy something, so buying the thing was your goal, but having bought it, now it becomes your field. So that's Aniruddha. Vasudeva then means the activity itself. So, technically speaking, Sankarshana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha are preliminaries and conclusions of an activity, because the point is is, the activity is where relationship happens. Think about it, is a lazy person appreciated? Or is it the active person that is appreciated? Because you can have a relationship with an active person, with an inactive person you cannot have a relationship, means you can't have a dynamic relationship. Does that make sense? So therefore the qualities of Sankarshana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha are found in Vasudeva. Vasudeva is the origin, from Him expands Sankarshana, and from Sankarshana then you get Pradyumna, and then expands Aniruddha. So, the field is not actually the origin. In one sense, yes, we see many times when we discuss expansions of the Lord, everything is expanding from Sankarshana,[Indistict] when you are discussing Tattva, yes, that's what's happening. But actually when you are discussing Rasa, it's Vasudeva who is first. Because Rasa can only exist if there is interaction, if there is abhideya. Tattva exists whether there is an action or not. God is God, material world is material world, the jivas are jivas, spiritual world is the spiritual world. But unless there is interaction where is the rasa? You have you and you have the Gulabjamun, okay? The existence is there, but unless the Gulabjamun goes in the mouth, where is the rasa? So that's why our Deity is Govinda, the Lord of Abhideya, because that's where everything happens.

So did you see now and there in that discussion the connection between philosophy and metaphysics? The philosophy, once we got to discussing the catuh-vyuha, when it came to who is expanding from whom and what's the position, that we are familiar with. But the other is, who is the Deity of who and how do they relate to each other, that's the technicalities that we are talking about. So that means, I can't tell you what they are, but Sankarshana has two qualities by which He acts, Pradyumna has two qualities, Aniruddha has two qualities, so there are six kalyana-gunas. Vasudeva has all six.

Translator: You can't tell?

HH BVPS Maharaja: No. Sankarshana... There is six kalyana-gunas, because in the activity, that's where the qualities of all six are tasted. So that means, in the activity, unless you... So this is, what we are talking about, if you are able to take it apart and put it back together, you can operate it better, because unless you know the field, you know the attraction, you know the attachment, you actually will not really know how to operate it. Means, in other words, we were discussing before with the computer, if you can take it apart and put it back together, then, one, you become more detached from it, because you see it for what it is, but at the same time you know how to better operate it.

(To the translator) That you get? Okay, just like this. If a man doesn't know what a woman is and woman doesn't know what a man is, how they will actually interact? Maybe some habit you picked up from your parents, they made it work, so yours is working. But the Vedic literature tells you what is male, what is female, what is their needs, what is their interrelationship, if you know that, then it works better, whether you wanna stay with it, or you wanna stay away from it. Do you understand? Because how do you stay away from something, if you don't know what you are staying away from? How do you stay with something, unless you know what it is you are staying with? Does that make sense? Yes? Okay.

So then, taking us a step further, in a relationship then we see, basically speaking, sambandha is masculine, prayojana is feminine, and abhideya is where the two meet. In other words, if there is an action, there has to be something that accommodates that action, or as the active principle in the action. Masculine is active, feminine is passive. So does that make sense? Because much of what will be discussed will be brought back to these kind-of principles.

Now, the origin of this, the history of this, why we make this distinction and why it's necessary to be able to make the distinction. Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami then describes that Krishna is One, then He becomes Two. In other words, He is everything, He is existence, existence is sambandha. But He expands the creation to interact with the creation, the creation is feminine, so interaction is where the masculine meets the feminine. So this principle applies in everything. You know what I'm saying? You wanna play the harmonium. You are sitting there, the harmonium is sitting there. But unless you play the harmonium, there is no sound. So that's the point, everything works off of this male-female principle, you can apply it to anything. Driving your car, the masculine element which is active is then moving the different elements within the car, which is feminine, and makes it move around. But now, also in the Vedic, you have to able to switch viewpoints depending upon what you're emphasizing. Because when you switch, I mean when you adjust the emphasis, it may adjust the example. We could take the car as the field, and the driver therefore is feminine, because they're only moving within the facilities offered by the field. Means, the car only can go so fast, it doesn't fly, it doesn't swim, it only runs if there is petrol. So you have to adjust with that. But the action is the action of the driver on the car, but the field is the car, and then what is operating or moving within that field is the driver. So that proper balance and proper understanding makes it work. So we make this distinction between male and female for rasa. Because technically there is no difference, because Krishna is His creation.

Okay, any questions on this? No? So does that means that everybody understands, or it went right over your head, or you lost track about an hour ago when we said Haribol, and you have just been sitting there and smiling because you are all cultured and don't wanna make us feel bad? Yes? No?

Question: Just because of this example of driving a car, so is it more difficult for a female driver to drive a car, because she is... she represents the feminine principle, and is it easier for the man to do this? Because then she has to operate so many things in the field, and is it easier for the man, because it's just natural for him to ride down the road and be in the car and move the car? [Laughter]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Well, depends what your purpose is. If your purpose is to get from point A to B, then probably the masculine would have the... may have the upper hand. But if the point is to get from point A to B, take care of the baby, talk on the phone, and discuss with your friend in the seat, then the women are at greater advantage. But if the man is not fixed on the field, then the woman will probably do better. In other words, focus is what gets you result. So if there is lack of focus, it doesn't matter if it's male or female. The difference here would come from different examples, this would also...  it's just sub-point we will get into in time, but this is very important point. Masculine because it's field then considers something solid is something... Means, an activity that generates something solid or observable is substance. Feminine, because they are in the realm of prayojana, which means the experience, for them the experience is substance and the observable is not important. Means, these two principles are very well interwoven. One may think, no, but the result is more important to women, that's why they have more stuff. But it's the experience gained from that stuff that's important, not the stuff itself. Your mother still has in some drawer somewhere in your house that picture that you drew in the first grade with your crayons, and the house, and the little river and the bird and the sun with a big smile and the cloud and the house with a little smoke coming out the chimney, right? Now, she is keeping it because this is definitely a Rembrandt, it's worth some serious money? Or is she keeping it because of the emotions that are generated from it? Right? Okay?

Now, let us say, you have a friend, now we will take a man. Now, the friend has given something that he likes and it's very useful in his life. So he uses it because friend gave it to him. Now, let's say, the relationship breaks down with that friend. There is a good chance, the man will still keep that item and use it, because it's very useful, no? Now, would the woman keep the item if the relationship broke down with that friend and they didn't wanna see them, talk to them, smell them, touch them, taste them, nothing? No. That's the point. So, things mean experience for women, therefore the more things the more experience. It's not the things that are important, it's the experience that you can generate from them. This is the meaning, if you know what you are dealing with, you know how to behave. Otherwise, the man thinks, why do you have all this stuff, why do you need this stuff, or what's wrong with this stuff, or that stuff? The woman throws something out, the man goes, "No, this is valuable." Valuable means, this can be traded for money or another item, in other words, this observable item can be traded for another observable item, therefore it has value. And the woman is saying, "No, there is no emotional content I can gain from this item, therefore it's useless." Does this make sense?

Did you notice, I turned it [the microphone] around? Means, action, I push this, it has to go somewhere. The finger is masculine, the microphone is feminine, it's just the way it works. But at the same time is, when you have a field, the field is inactive. It sits on this couch and reads the newspaper. The feminine then takes the house that the couch potato arranged and does things with it. [Laughter] Does that make sense? That's why I am saying, depending on the perspective. Means, I can give this example here because you actually have a language that has grammar, so I can very happily give... That's another thing you will end up with, there is a lot of grammatical explanation. I say these things to those who speak English, doesn't make much sense.

In a sentence, you have a subject and an object. Who is doing the activity? The subject or the object? The subject. So the subject is masculine, the object is feminine. The result is something else. The result is the dative, do you understand? So the subject is dealing with the verb for the accomplishment. The verb has three parts: time, mood and accomplishment, right? Okay? Approved by the grammarian. [Laughter] Okay? Does that make sense? Therefore, if the time is not right, the mood is not right, and the accomplishment is not obtainable or is wrongly perceived, action does not take place. All three have to be in line, then the verb works. Now, the subject is interested in the dative that will be obtained by applying the verb on the object. The feminine is interested in the experience gained by the verb, couldn't care less about the dative. Very important.

You sit down to watch a movie. That means, get up, walk over, sit down, turn it on, start staring at it for two hours, and at the end of two hours it's over, finished, job well done. So the man thinks. He can't figure out why if we are gonna watch a movie then she has to go over to do this, do that, call this one of the phone, get something to eat, do all these other things. Then, just at the most intense point in the movie, then the lady starts talking, "What did you think of this?" or "Are you hungry?" And the man is thinking, "I thought we were watching a movie." Do you understand? A movie is an activity that generates a shared experience. It's not something that gives a result. Does that make sense? Result comes, the end of the movie is there, credits are there, yes. [Laughter] Does that make sense? That's the metaphysics behind your bewildered look every time you are in this situation. Does it make sense or not? If you guys don't understand this, then good luck. You got to live with this every day, every moment of your life, this is the reality. So do you understand it or not? Kind-of? And from this side, do you understand why it is, they don't understand? [Laughter] If you notice, on this side there is a 100% understanding. On this side it's kind-of like, "What was that?" Do you understand? Why would that be? Soul by nature is feminine, so feminine understands feminine. Soul is not by nature masculine, so if you wanna be masculine, you have to learn how to be masculine, otherwise you are just going to act like a nasty lady [Laugher]. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: I was trying to understand the difference between male and female principle, according to sambandha, abhideya and prayojana, could you explain it, what's the relationship between male and female identification according to sambandha, abhideya and prayojana?

HH BVPS Maharaja: See, masculine exists. There is two states of existence, active and passive, because Krishna exists before the creation. As Atmarama, He is existence, He is everything, but when He expands the field, then His masculinity is expressed through interacting with that field. Therefore the man can function alone or with women, because Krishna can be alone or He can expand the creation and interact with it. In either case, existence in not a problem for Him. So gaining things, the masculine is the field anyway. But now, when you expand the creation that's feminine, it's dependent upon the masculine. It doesn't exist without the masculine. So now, when the feminine... I mean, so therefore the masculine is complete in itself, but by interacting with the feminine, there is rasa, there is the taste of rasa. Does that make sense?

Prabhu: So they are interdependent?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Interdependent, but the feminine is dependent upon the masculine for existence, therefore the feminine, the most essential point in any relationship is security. Because if security is not there, where is the relationship? So from this we can see, I mean, there is bigger explanation, but it just came to mind. Man becomes angry when he is frustrated in gaining a result. The feminine gets angry when there is any apparent compromise in security. Therefore that's why just a wrong tone of voice or wrong word can create three days worth of fighting, because what has been obscured is the security.

Prabhu: And when we are talking about relationship between people to people, we know that the supreme goal is to establish our eternal relationships with Krishna. By seeing how we are dealing with different mentalities, different personalities, so I have noted that male and female conflict is within every person, male and female conflict between men and male and female conflict between women.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, because the soul is feminine, at the same time is the soul thinks they are masculine as the controller and the enjoyer of the material energy. So the problem comes up is when the men are acting like women and the women are acting like men. If men act like men, women like women, then socially there is no problem.

Prabhu: Bt male and female is a bodily concept or a mental concept?

HH BVPS Maharaja: It's mental, it's consciousness, because physical is then what it is expressed through. And that expands from there. From the body then it goes into the house, possessions and this and that. So, in other words, it's like this. That because we identify with this, this brings it back to the very beginning. That because we identify with the conditioned nature, therefore we analyze it, understand what it actually is and in this way we become detached from it and more expert at using it in Krishna's service.

Let us say, somebody is still here, just will take a very random... How you say, what do you call those where it's like a situation that's not necessarily real? There is a name for that? You know, just like you project something that could happen.

Translator: Imaginary.

HH BVPS Maharaja: There is a name for it.

Translator: Hypothetical.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, hypothetical. Let's just take a hypothetical situation. That you happen to have, let's say, a living entity that is stuck in the material world because they have particular material attachment. We are not talking about any particular, but we are just giving a hypothetical situation that possibly this could happen, right? So then, let us take that the hypothetical attachment happens to be the interaction between male and female. So, now, let us say, that desire is there to interact, but one actually doesn't really know the field and what is actually the... how in the field to actually interact to get the results you want. So then, one is interacting with the field based on how you think it should work. Not necessarily how it does work. So then one becomes frustrated and looking for answers, let us also hypothetically just say, one takes up spiritual life. And one is frustrated with material life, so one takes very seriously the sadhana and direct spiritual activities of the spiritual life. And so one chants, one follows the program, one preaches, one does all that kind of stuff. And, of course, because we are speaking hypothetically here, then one takes that up and one does that until the end of life and goes back to Godhead, because there is no other considerations, because one is completely frustrated with material life, so material life does not even come into the picture.

But now, we are frustrated with the material energy because it doesn't work right. But did that actually get rid of the desire to interact with that material energy? Good chance, that would be a problem. So after many years of this very strict sadhana, then one decides, well maybe, you know, we should be married and be responsible, and all these nice good, how you say, different things we might say to convince our self that it's okay, and so our brahmachari friends won't laugh at us too much. So now, you are back. Now, spiritually you have answers, you have sadhana, you have the Holy Name, you have everything. But now, that one is dealing again in the material field, you don't know anything more about it than the day you walked in the door of the temple. What are you gonna do? So, now, how is that being engaged in Krishna's service? No. So you still have the same frustration running side by side with what you get in Krishna consciousness. And let's say, you are being a good boy, you are in the temple program for four hours in the morning, but what are you doing for the rest of the 20 hours? So with time, which possibly might start taking the prominence? The 20 hours or the 4 hours? So, unless you can turn that 20 hours to be supportive of those 4 hours, then how we are gonna get out? So unless you can uproot something, how are you gonna do that? Anybody has been sent out into the garden by their mommy to pull out weeds? Yeah? Okay. Going out into the garden, the kid, what is he gonna do, just pull the top off the weed and job done, right? Isn't it? And then your mommy comes out and says, "No, you've got to dig down and pull out the root." But if you don't know what  a root is, you don't know what the implement is that you are using to prick the root out, you don't know how to do that, is it gonna happen? Therefore, in the science of Krishna consciousness the whole social structure and etiquette, everything comes along with the philosophy and sadhana. So that's why the technical approach.

If it's working for you without the technical approach, great. So much easier. The Gopis saw Krishna, though He was a great looking boy, decided to give their heart and soul to Him, job done. Three nanoseconds - pure, unalloyed devotee. Can't get better than that. But if that didn't work for you, then Krishna recommends, you take up sadhana-bhakti. That means, 24/7 following the Pancaratric and Bhagavata systems of our regulated lifestyle and preaching. Still, quite straightforward. Of course, the temple commander is a bit of a problem, but, other than that then... If that doesn't work, then you work for Krishna. But how do you work for Krishna if you don't know how the work works? "Cook for Krishna!" "I don't know how to cook. Last time I tried boiling water, I burnt it." [Laugher] So it's like, how are you gonna cook for Krishna? So you have to know the field. But still, this is touching Varnashrama, but it's still naishkarmya. It's still, the main point is understanding it, dealing with it with the purpose to please Krishna. If that doesn't work, then you go to the next level, which is, "Okay, it's yours! But once you get your result, then give your result to Krishna." But still, if you don't know what you are doing, then how will you get the result to give to Krishna, right? If you can't do that, be a nice, pious guy, means, you have to have plenty of money to give in charity, so you better be pretty good at that. And if you can't do that, then you be a impersonalist, but then you have to be pretty good at knowledge, so you are not gonna get away from this knowledge. Armed with the sword of knowledge, then that's how you are gonna get out. And armed with the sword of knowledge then you stand and fight, or you cook, or you operate your family life, or your business, or whatever it is. Without knowledge it's not gonna work very good.

So, the whole idea is to give an idea what is going on, so you know how to deal with it, so the success is there. So one thing is very important in this, is the balance is the only thing that's sustainable. So if one is too far on one side, then shobbing it all the way to the other side is not the solution. Bringing it to the middle is the solution, because wherever you stand, there is some element of it that is of use. But it's overbalanced one way. Taking the opposite position is just a reflection of the same position you are in now. But it's overbalanced the other way, so it will give different results, but it won't give any actually better results. The potato is overcooked and burned, or it's raw and not cooked. But both of them are unedible. The middle is the right place, that's edible. Applying the cooking process that created the overcooking, cooking is important, but you over-applied the cooking. Under-cooking means, you are being very careful not to misapply the cooking process, but it's overdone where the cooking process doesn't happen. But the solution is in the middle. Does that make sense?

Question: Does this mean that I have to learn to what extent am I a woman and to what extent I am a man, because the middle means that I am neither woman, neither man, or both, so... Does that make sense? [Laughter]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah. [Laughter] Within oneself, yes, one has to get that balance. It's fairly straightforward, the soul is the woman and the Paramatma is the man, so one gets the balance that way. And then, in role playing, then husband has to act like a man, and wife has to... Here, let's put it this way. If the husband acts like a man, the wife will act like a woman.

Question: But if the soul wants to control the world or to create something in the world, then the soul acts as a man. So even the woman acts like a man when she wants to control the field or achieve something in the field?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, acts like man in that she is trying to control the field, but the method she will use will be feminine. That's the point. It still will be feminine. Because it's still based on dependency. The man goes out, gets a job, buys himself a house, buys himself a car, buys himself some furniture. He has a car, he has a house, he has the furniture, and he himself is still himself, it's not his security. The feminine, they have no man, they get a job, they get their money, they get a house, they get their car, they get their furniture, but they are dependent still upon that house, that car and that furniture for their identity, so there is a difference. That's why... Yeah, that's the difference. Does that make sense?

So, in making the balance, the balance comes with the masculine principle where Krishna describes naishkarmya. You perform the activity without the desire for the result. You perform the activity because that's the proper thing for you to do in interacting in that situation, or with those personalities. You know what I am saying? So, that's because that's how Krishna works. Everything is His, so He doesn't have to act to get something. He acts to interact with His creation. Does that make sense? So, that's then His result, it's the pleasure of the creation. And you deal with the creation how it can be dealt with. Water, you can boil a potato, you don't use water to put a nail into the wall. So therefore the creation is complete because it's Him. But Krishna always remains the complete, but what expands from Him, is a portion of Him, it's not completely Him. The hubcap is non-different from the car, but it's not the car. Does that make sense? Therefore the hubcap will only hide the log nuts, you put it on there to hide all those bolts. It is round, but if you sit there and go like this, your car is not going to change direction. Do you understand? So you have to deal with it as it can deal with you. This is masculine. Masculine means, they deal with the feminine according to the nature of the feminine and what the feminine can do, and what state the feminine is at present, and how the feminine is interacting with you. That's masculine. Anything else is feminine. So if you are not doing that, then you have your answer to what your problems are. So the famous, what is it? Machissimo Magyar male is actually just an overly, how you say? Overly muscular woman, because that macho man is dependent upon women to tell him that he is so cool. If he is actually male, no one has to tell him he is fine, because he is fine. But if you want to interact with people, he has got to do something. Therefore the high divorce rate of couch potatoes. [Laughter] Did it come across? You have a similar term here? Couch potato is a guy who sits on the couch eating a bag of chips with their remote all day. Sometimes no chips, but at least the couch and remote, or sometimes it's a newspaper. But in that state he is not interacting, so that means, there is no relationship, therefore there is insecurity. Therefore the lady is suggesting that you do various activities. And the man is thinking, "Hey, I was busy all day making money for you." But that's just the field, it's purely masculine. Where is the woman situated? So the point is, the man creates the field, but the woman operates it. You brought home so many things to eat, but they decide what they are gonna cook. Does that make sense? So that's the relationship.

So therefore the only way a living entity can take the masculine role and survive, is if he follows four eternal, undestructible rules. And to be able to follow these rules, that's masculine, but when you hear them, you'll go "No, no, that's feminine." That's why most men fail in being men. They don't know what masculine is. And amazingly enough, you probably even say these four rules every day. And a good chance you even say them in Sanskrit. Rule number one, humility. Rule number two, tolerance. Rule number three, respecting the other party. Rule number four, not expecting any respect back. And to be able to do that and maintain your identity, that's masculine. But unless you can... Means, if you have to express your ego, you can't tolerate things, you have to be respected, you may or may not respect back, that's feminine. Because you see, they are dependent upon the other party, while masculine is independent. You get no respect, nothing works the way you want, but you are still who you are, you are not disturbed. If it doesn't work the way you want, you can't tolerate it not being the way you want, it's got to work the way you want, that's dependent. So now, do you understand how the two fit together?

Question: But if a woman realizes this principle of trindad api sunicena, then in the role play will she act like a man?

HH BVPS Maharaja: No. Because the point is is, she can only assume it if the husband assumes it. Because you are going through a different perspective. Who did it first? You do something, the other responds. Who leads is the masculine, who responds is the feminine. You are humble, they'll be humble, you are tolerant, they become tolerant, you are respectful they'll respect. The masculine means, they lead. So the man is sitting there and going, "She is wrong in this argument, I am not backing down, I'm holding my ground," that's feminine. Because you are depending upon them to make the first move. They've got to be humble, they've got to be respectful. Do you understand? From that perspective.

From another perspective, then you take it as that if the man wants the woman to see where she is wrong, he has to be able to see where he was wrong. Because we discussed before, what the men are looking for in an activity is different than what the woman is looking for. So, a men gets angry with the woman because the activity she is doing will not get a tangible result. It's not an efficient operation of the material energy. But for the woman, it's the experience gained from it. Therefore, when the woman does something wrong and the man gets upset, it's not that she did something wrong and he got upset that disturbs her. Not that he's gotten upset that she is not operating material energy perfectly. What upsets her is the mood in which he said it. Because the mood is the experience. Does that make sense? Therefore, the woman is right in her being angry, because the man didn't behave properly. And the woman is wrong that he dealt with her wrongly, okay. So, then if both hold their grounds, you have a stalemate. So, then the masculine thing to do is come forward first. You wanna lead, lead means you do it first. You come and say, "I'm sorry for this." And if you've been sincere enough, then you might get a good response. You know what I am saying?

In other words, you only get a response based on what you do first. So the women always follow the men. He just has to know what leading is. Does that make sense? So that's the principle. Humility is there, you've done something, humility is there, tolerance is there, because once they start to tell you what you are doing wrong, this that, you have to be tolerant. Or, their seeming non-response to things that they didn't feel you actually did nicely. Technically, it was done right, it was said wrong, the mood was wrong, or the time was wrong. Does that make sense? That's the verb. So the men look only at the accomplishment, or time and mood only for accomplishment. But the woman looks at the mood. You know what I am saying? So that's the thing, if these things are understood, then it becomes much easier.

That's why it says, the first class brahmachari makes a first class grihastha. Because he has knowledge, he has sense control, he has humility, therefore he can continue that practice in his home. Because if you thought the temple commander was tough and you wanted to get out of the temple into your own house to exercise your "freedom and independence", multiply it by 10, the temple commander there is a little bit more exacting and strict. So in any way you are going to learn to be humble. So if either the temple commander made you humble, or your partner is gonna make you humble. You know, what I am saying, with tolerance, with respect, with selfless service. You know what I am saying? That's why in the daivi-varnashrama, in devotional service, there is no difference in what ashrama you are in, it doesn't matter. Because each one can take you back to Godhead. Just some are a little easier, some are a little more tough.

So the grihastha ashrama is tougher. That's why grihasthas are considered more respectable than brahmacharis. Because they are responsible. They are having to work with a much more serious temple commander. So the principles are the same, it doesn't matter which ashrama and varna you are in, what you have to learn to go back to Godhead is exactly the same. As far as culture goes, the third verse of Siksastaka is what makes any rule or etiquette, or dharma, artha, kama, moksha work. And if you can do all that, then you can chant Hare Krishna 24 hours a day, because that's what we are trying to get to. Does that make sense? So it's just different ways. You wouldn't learn it in the temple, therefore you learn it at the house, it doesn't matter, the point is to learn it. It's nice, okay you have the free time, there is no pressure, you can go to classes, learn to cook, great. But if you don't have that option, you know, you are the only one in the temple and you got to cook, you are gonna learn real fast. More difficult, but also, how you say, on-the-job learning experience. So that's the whole point, it doesn't matter where you are, you just have to figure out where you are and then figure out how to get from that point to Krishna, shortest distance between two points is a straight line, isn't it? So that's the idea, wherever you are at right now, if you can understand what that actually is, then you can connect it to Krishna. But if you don't know who you are, how can you connect yourself to Krishna?

Prabhu: Following the same logic, you may have to be humble, the woman will follow the humility. If my nature is I am female by nature as a soul, that means, Krishna has to be humble first and then I will follow in humility?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Krishna... We wanna be God, Krishna created the material world, so we could do it. Krishna comes in your heart, He goes with you everywhere, doesn't matter what you do. Even if you are ignoring Him, even if you are saying bad things about Him, He still sits there. And any time, how you say? Any way you want to relate to Him, He relates back. That's on the vishaya-ashraya principle. Vishaya means, He has all the elements, the ashraya then relates to a particular aspect of that element. You know what I am saying? Means, the house is the field, it has everything, but the woman wants to relate to food now, or to recreation, or to sitting with friends. Do you understand? So, it reciprocates with that. So therefore we go... It's like this. When we go into the temple, and we see the Deity, we expect the Deity to be smiling. Would you be smiling if one of your good friends hasn't called you, seen you, spoken to you for eons and then just suddenly shows up one day and then you are supposed to be in a great mood. And not only that, they've been ignoring you, they've been out with all kinds of nonsense, they know that you just don't like. But as soon as they walk in the door, can he expect you to just smile and ask you for something? So that's what God is doing as a male.  So, He is just waiting for us to respond. He has taken the lead, He has made all the arrangements, but still, we have to respond. You know what I am saying? When you interact with somebody, the most annoying thing is if they don't respond, no? You have to be pretty tolerant to put up with that.

Prabhu: [Indistinct]

HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah. You had something?

Question: It's on interaction with balance, so in other words, the golden middle. Does it mean that devotee keeps a distance or she is kind-of aloof from everything.

HH BVPS Maharaja: Distance means the distance... The aloofness that a devotee keeps is in the proprietorship over the result. But otherwise, if you don't interact, where is the relationship? But it doesn't mean you need to compromise yourself. Prahlada Maharaja would interact with his demon father, he never agreed with his demon father, but he never didn't follow etiquette. So, father to son relationship was going on fine. The Guru-disciple relationship, that was having a bit of a problem. Somehow or other, Hiranyakashipu didn't understand that he was the disciple and Prahlada Maharaja was the Guru. But father-son, that went on fine. Security, Prahlada Maharaja was secure in his relationship with Krishna, therefore other things weren't disturbance. Is that okay? Last point.

Mataji: So, the series of lectures coming, would they have the same purpose as what Krishna said to Uddhava in the 11th canto?

HH BVPS Maharaja: Means, it will be based on a lot of those technicalities. Means, you have the same in the Gita then the first basically 12 chapters are explaining the whole devotional service and its application. The last 6 chapters tell you all the technicalities that go on in applying those first 6 chapters. So your 11th Canto explains all the technicalities that are explained in the first 9 Cantos. That was our point, if you can operate it without the technical points, great. But, if it's not successful, then you might want to check your technique. If your cooking always comes out bad, you might wanna start looking at your talent. Is that okay? What time it is?

Translator: Seven.

HH BVPS Maharaja: What time did we start?

Translator: Five.

HH BVPS Maharaja: I think for today that's a good introduction. So then what we continue, as we continue discussing it will make more sense, at least we hope so. We will do our best.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Samaveta bhakta vrinda ki jaya! Jaya Nitai-Gaura Premanande Hari Haribol!

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