Lesson 7. The utmost important duty of humankind is, therefore, to cooperate with the Personality of Godhead. At the end of Lesson 6 there was the description of the devotional process. Lesson 7 opens with an account of those who are not qualified to follow this process. So, the divine, the demoniac, the divine have qualities that are already very useful in devotional service. The demoniac then lack the qualities, but by the grace of the devotees, through the instruction of the Lord, then they can also become, you know, freed from all sin-free action.
So, therefore, it’s the utmost importance, because that’s the only way that benefit is done. Because if you don’t cooperate, then we see that the path described for the demoniac mentality is not overly attractive. You know, like that.
9.3. Those who are not faithful in this devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of enemies. Therefore, they return to the path of birth and death in this material world. Okay, faith is created by association of devotees. The faithless cannot accomplish this process of devotional service. That is the purport of this verse. Faith is created by association with devotees. Unfortunate people, even after hearing all the evidence of Vedic literature and great personalities, still have no faith in God. They are hesitant and cannot stay fixed in the devotional service to the Lord. Thus, faith is the most important factor for progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that faith is the complete conviction that simply by serving the Supreme Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, one can achieve all perfection. That is called faith.
What if the conviction is not complete? To that degree, then it’ll be weak. All these things is you have the two extremes, and then you have whatever’s in the middle. That’s it. Somehow we have to get used to that, what’s in the middle. Yeah, because it’s natural. Because it’s got to be this, it’s got to be that. Because it’s duality. But it’s not. It’s just one thing. And if you have more of this or more of that, it doesn’t make sense. Because from sraddha to prema. Then you would say, oh, if I don’t have complete conviction, then I can’t even begin the process. No, that complete conviction by serving, one can achieve all perfection. So as that comes to that, one gets closer to achieving all perfection. So that’s the thing. One has to always remember it’s the nature of the soul. To be God conscious is the nature of the soul. Not to be demoniac.
That’s artificial. Being demoniac is artificial.
But having faith in the Lord, that’s normal for the living entity. That’s natural. You were asking about a number. The guy two months ago, the last guy, said, if you chant this perfectly, then you will get love of Godhead. So I said, how do you chant it perfectly? His answer was, when you’re perfect, you chant it perfectly. So as you say, as the conviction develops and the faith… Yeah, it just naturally builds on each other. As you have more of something, then that being invested, you get more results. So the more faith is there, then the whole process works. So that’s why it says here, the association of devotees is so important. Because in that association, then faith is created by association with the devotees. So then one could say, the better you associate with devotees, the better the faith.
You know what I’m saying?
So if you want to chant your Gayatri perfectly, you have to associate properly with devotees.
Well, it comes, yeah. It’s something easily you can see, it’s the quality of association. That’s why Rupa Goswami and Upadesa Amrita then brings out what are the qualities. In other words, the six qualities, the pushings that are going to get in the way, and then what is the natural association of the devotees. So that’s there. And then consideration, dealing with devotees, the considerations, and then places of staying, like this kind of thing. So these are all what’s very conducive.
So being with the devotees, that’s your best thing.
So that’s why international society for Krishna consciousness. Otherwise, you just have individuals who are trying to be Krishna conscious, and send you some stuff over the internet. No, it’s a society, because in that association, then one’s faith will grow.
So if faith’s not growing, then there’s something’s wrong there.
Yeah.
Sometimes we are convinced, especially after hearing, you know, it’s building up, and then suddenly, you know, it goes down again. Well, that’s called when you walk over the bridge.
Means the faith builds up sitting here, and then when we walk out, think, oh, where’s my scooter? No, I’ve got to do this. Not that severe. Oh, okay. So at least you get to the scooter, right? Damn, yeah.
Okay, when you get to your scooter, it’s all right. When you get to your Harley, that’s where the problem starts.
So can we say it’s dynamic? Should it be always dynamic? It’s always dynamic. You know, so that’s why one wants to try to always regularly see ones at the association of devotees, right? So then that element of developing the faith is dynamic. So you’re in the association of devotees, you’re hearing, you’re contemplating, you’re practicing, so that way it’s dynamic. It’s always… Because if one’s with devotees, then there’s always more input, so then there’s more to think about, so there’s shravana, so then there’s more to think about and practice, so therefore there’s more realization. So as the realization matures, then that’s… because that’s what’s maturing, is the faith. Realization is that, yes, you know, this is Krishna. You know, like I said before, Krishna will take care. If you surrender, Krishna will take care.
There are different types of association. Different types of association. So some are more… There are devotees that are more intense than they share in the knowledge, and sometimes you feel… you find it a little bit more… like when you hear class that is very basic, it can be kind of boring. You don’t feel you’ve got something from it. So what should be the attitude? Well, I mean, still, the basics is still a matter of contemplating what’s there, to see what they’re speaking about in relationship to, you know, whatever it is that you’re… thinking about. Because the… the philosophy is always based on basics. You know, those are the building blocks. Either from the principle is there, and so then it’s just a matter of developing all the detail around it. Or you have that this is beginning detail, so then it’s a matter of, is that all in place? Is it going nicely? You know, don’t just say, you know, well, you should surrender to Krishna, chanting Hare Krishna is the best way. You know, so it may sound very basic, but have we surrendered? Are we chanting, you know, on that platform? You know, so there’s always… there’s always something. Even if nothing else, even if we don’t feel intellectually we’ve gained anything more to work with, but by being in that environment, one is purified, right? Because it’s like Prabhupada is saying, when you quote the Sanskrit verses, people are purified, right?
So… You know, because that was, I think it was, was it D-Mach? No, not D-Mach. Was it D-Mach in Russia? Moscow? No, D-Mach is in America. Chikovsky. Okay, Chikovsky. Kotovsky.
Kotovsky. Yeah, so he was saying, why are you quoting the Sanskrit because no one here knows Sanskrit? And he’s saying, no, you’re purified by hearing it. So it’s always a matter of…
So, in Bombay, Prabhupada had the Western devotees sit in the, I think it was Gita or Bhagavatam, whatever class. It wasn’t given by Prabhupada. So it was, no, it was given by Prabhupada, but it was an evening class. So morning class he’d speak in English because then the locals wouldn’t come, but in the evening all the, you know, the gentlemen from around Juhu would come. And so then he would speak in Hindi. And so the Western devotees would say, oh, I don’t understand Hindi. But Prabhupada’s point was, no, it’s purifying, so everybody had to sit there. You know, like that. So you get realization.
So it’s always a benefit. So the program’s always a benefit. Whether someone very, with more or less realization or more or less advancement is leading a kirtan or giving a class or doing any aspect of it, it’s still purifying because the process is directly connected.
So association is always important.
So the faithless can’t accomplish this. So by the association of devotees, then they can, because we saw before, is that, you know, even demoniac and everything, then they have faith. But the one thing to note is all those points made about the demoniac, right, they had faith. If they had faith by their own plans and their own endeavor, they would be happy. So faith is there, though it’s being applied in a demoniac way. But the person who can’t apply himself because he doesn’t have any faith, very hard for him to get anywhere.
So it’s even a more difficult position. Right? Because the pious definitely will follow authority. Right? So a good association will follow that authority. The impious, then they have a tendency to not follow authority. They’re their own authority. But at least they have faith that by doing something they’ll get a result and that they can do it. Right? But it’s purely material. But then you have the situation where they don’t have the confidence and don’t have the faith. So then the problem is neither can they be engaged in pious activities and neither can they actually be successful impiously.
You know what I’m saying? So basically the faithless don’t get anything.
Right? Neither spiritual nor material.
Does that make sense? So this element of faith is important. So that means association.
Does that make sense?
Yes? So at this point, the human makes the cloud. Yeah, the ribbon cloud. You basically kind of could, but you wouldn’t have to check the purports if there’s any, what kind of detail is given. But the point is by the association of devotees, since having faith in the Lord is natural for the living entity, it can be revived in anyone. And so there’s no question that somebody’s outside the purview of making advancement in devotional service. Like any soul can. That’s their nature. But the difficulty is if that faith is not strong, then things don’t happen. So when you have stuff like, it’s natural, but if faith is shaken, senior devotees go away, or there was some bad managerial effort, or money is lost, or other devotees go away who you knew. So these things, the difficulty is that faith is reduced. You know what I’m saying? Because these things happen. People aren’t necessarily materially expert or not spiritually expert. So mistakes are made. But the mistake isn’t actually the biggest problem. The biggest problem is being distracted from Krishna consciousness. That’s the actual problem. Or is it faith in different modes of nature? Yeah, it means, we’ve discussed before, and goodness is, you know, it’s like you have demigods, you have forefathers, ghosts, all these different kind of things. But if you have faith in Vishnu, then that’s the best.
You know what I’m saying? Because you have to put, it means you go, you know, you go outside the front gate, and on the front of the bus it says Calcutta. Right? And you want to go to Calcutta. So you have faith that that bus is going there. You know what I’m saying?
Materialists say they don’t believe in faith. They don’t believe in faith. But their faith is that there is no faith. Because they’re very committed to it. Because otherwise if they don’t believe in faith, then you could say, you know, well, you know, something about faith. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
But not to believe means there’s a commitment to the non-belief. So that’s the faith. So that would be, you know, your demoniac faith.
You know, because somebody may say that, but then you discuss and then it’s another thing. But if they’re really committed to it, then that means, yeah, that is their faith. Those who don’t have faith in God, they have faith in something else. So faith is always there.
Right? Because otherwise you make an endeavor, the result doesn’t come immediately. So you go to a job, you have faith that at the end of the week you’ll get paid. That’s faith. You know, you have faith that when the light turns green, you can go and you won’t be run over. You know what I’m saying? You have faith when you go into an office, buy a ticket that when you go to the, you know, the airport, like that, they’ll honor it. Or that the plane will get to where you want. Or that the plane will actually get there. You know? So as the mind is purified of the three modes, then it develops faith in the spiritual sound vibration? Yeah, like that. The point is that’s the natural place of faith. But it’s just covered. So that natural faith in the Personality of Godhead is covered by the modes of nature. So therefore, it takes on the varieties of material faith.
Is that what somebody said?
It’s like a living entity is marginal, so then its normal position is to be under the shelter, take complete shelter of Krishna, or an illusion and take shelter of all these other things. Yes. You know, it’s just like happiness. Happiness is actually in connection with Krishna. But what happens is, is that one adjusts that faith to have faith in something else.
You know what I’m saying? Because the idea is that I will be happy you know, by this other thing. So the prema has been that the natural prema would be covered by other endeavors.
You know what I’m saying? I do something else, I’ll be happy by that. So your priogeny is something else. Right? Technically we know it’s still Krishna, but the person in illusion doesn’t think it’s Krishna. The potency of money is still Krishna. Beauty is still Krishna. Power, fame is still Krishna.
But they don’t think it’s connected to God. So therefore, you know, illusion, therefore atheism.
Okay, the development of that faith is the process of Krishna consciousness.
Okay, so those are faith. Now this is real faith, right? Faith is the complete conviction that simply by serving the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna one can achieve all perfection.
Now the development of that faith is the process of Krishna consciousness. There are three divisions of Krishna conscious men. In the third class are those who have no faith. Even if they are officially engaged in devotional service, they cannot achieve the highest perfectional stage. Most probably they will slip after some time. They may become engaged, but because they haven’t complete conviction and faith, it is very difficult for them to continue in Krishna consciousness. It is only by faith that one can advance in Krishna consciousness. As far as the development of faith is concerned, one who is well versed in the literatures of devotional service and has attained the stage of firm faith is called a first class person in Krishna consciousness.
And in the second class are those who are not very advanced in understanding devotional scriptures, but who automatically have firm faith that Krishna bhakti, or service to Krishna, is the best course and so in good faith have taken it up.
Thus they are superior to the third class who have neither perfect knowledge of the scriptures nor good faith, but by association and simplicity are trying to follow. The third class person in Krishna consciousness may fall down. But when one is in the second class he does not fall down. And for the first class person in Krishna consciousness there is no chance of falling down. One in the first class will surely make progress and achieve the result at the end.
Yes? Can the person change his first, second, and third class from certain to certain? When you walked away from the window you noticed you had a different ticket. You want to know if you can go back and refund or if you can go to upgrade or something.
You know? Miles maybe.
No, it means, yeah, it doesn’t fall down.
Here the point is is fall down. What does that mean here, fall down? Because here it says one of the first guys will surely make, there is no chance of falling down. But we’ve heard that from Baba you can fall down and that’s first class. So what does it mean here to fall down?
Yeah, it means that faith will not be lost. Like Jara Bharat, he ended up as a deer. So we would call it in one sense falling down. That means he fell from that platform into this, but his faith never changed.
Does that make sense? So the same with the second class. If anything happens, but that faith in devotional service and that doesn’t go away. But the third class, it might go away. And then they just kind of completely give up and just kind of merge back into the material phenomena.
No, no. There’s a difference between merging back into the phenomena because one has faith in the material phenomena. Another thing is just that they aren’t that active in Krishna consciousness.
Does that make sense? Because we’re taking it fall down means that it is distracted by material desire.
Does that make sense? So here we’re talking about faith. So their faith will not be a problem.
But they don’t have not very advanced in understanding the devotional scriptures.
You understand? So this could also put it that what Prabhupada is defining as advanced understanding of the devotional scriptures is way beyond what we’re thinking of. We’re thinking, oh hey, he knows a few slokas. Like that. Yeah, yeah. Like that. But here it’s a matter of understanding what the devotional literatures are saying. What is devotional? Actually devotional service. Because so much time we take it that the ritual is the devotion.
You know, like that. So therefore that not following the ritual, that’s the fall down. You know what I’m saying? That’s the symptom of something. But the point is is that that faith in Krishna consciousness generally don’t go away. Like you see these devotees you know, many times big devotees and then they come back. And then if you talk about they’ve never at any time thought that Prabhupada wasn’t you know, what’s important. Just that they were not having that strength to be able to perform. You know what I’m saying? Still it’s a dangerous position. You know, because if you leave your body in that state then you come back again and you know, you have to go through the whole thing again. So it’s not that it’s a deal, but it’s different from someone who it doesn’t matter. There are those where Prabhupada was you know, one of their teachers. You know, like that. That’s a fall down.
So it’s different between sense weakness? Yeah, it means I would say in here they’re making a difference that fall down on the platform of faith as opposed to fall down on the platform of sensual.
Does that make sense?
It can be a bit confusing. Because like these past couple of days I’ve had something with my neck. And I’ve been thinking if I was just a pure devotee I wouldn’t care. And I was taking care of my neck and sitting there. In sadhana it was more difficult.
That’s why you take care. Yeah. Because the point is this you know, if you don’t care it means the point where you don’t care means it doesn’t bother you. You know what I’m saying? But if it bothers you you take care of it. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? But it’s not that the pure devotee doesn’t worry about these things because the point is the body is a machine. If the machine doesn’t work then you can’t do certain things. You can always chant but if you want to do something more than that then you know, the body has to function. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? So it’s not just they don’t care and just don’t take medicine don’t, you know, just stand out in the cold and rain and all that and just lick their teeth yeah, we don’t care.
That’s not that’s not what it means. I mean, it means somehow or another you’re kind of late teens early twenties that’s kind of like their concept of the advanced devotee.
Like that. So nice but, you know, it inspires them. But, you know, unfortunately so does the medals concert. But, you know, it’s all these different things. You know, so you know.
Like Rambo with a beatbox.
Right?
Okay. So you’re going to pit Rambo with a bead bag against Hitler on acid?
Winston floodbuster. Yeah, that would probably be pretty good.
Yeah, just thinking that would be you know, it’s a movie. Literally writes itself. Yeah, movie thing. That would probably be pretty good.
Now, the other consideration is at the end of the film do we end up with Rambo on acid and Hitler with a bead bag?
You’re talking about Hitler? You’re talking about Rambo? Okay, Rambo. Because he had the bead bag before.
Both of them should have two beads by the end. Yeah, okay. At the end they should both have two beads.
But Rambo shouldn’t be on acid. It depends what’s in the bead bag. It depends what’s in the bead bag. Some people use them like a purse, you know. Yeah, yeah. Everything inside. Yeah, yeah. Zippers and everything like that.
Okay.
Those who have no faith find the path of bhakti very difficult. Those who have no faith even after hearing about Kṛṣṇa and the excellence of devotional service who think that it is simply eulogy find the path very difficult even if they are supposedly engaged in devotional service. For them there is very little hope of gaining perfection. Means very little hope means in that state. You change the state then it’s gone. You understand? We have to look at it from the element. Nityābhāda means that means in that state you will be eternally, you know, conditioned. But in the association of devotees that changes.
Right? And why does the nitya-siddha always stay nitya-siddha? What’s the key? According to these points.
Keeps the faith. First place. Keeps the faith, yeah. Keeps the faith. Huh? Yeah. What he said. What I’m saying. So they just sit around going, yeah, keep the faith. Well, some Kṛṣṇa conscious activity might follow. Might follow. Yeah. But the main thing is keeping the faith. Yeah. Keeping the faith. Chanting would be good. They wear a black glove? Yeah. In the theater. Yeah. It’s a big secret. What about association of devotees? Also good. Because that’s the one that gets the faith, right? You get the faith in the association of devotees. Faith is created by association of devotees. Now in the spiritual world, who’s in the spiritual world? Devotees. Devotees. And so you are always in the association of? Devotees. And so therefore you will always have? Faith. Right. Yeah. So that’s important.
They’re smart. They always keep in the association of devotees.
But Prabhupāda went to America. He had to go and he’s fine. Yes, yes. All the paramparās? Yeah, paramparās. And it wasn’t crowded. This is Krishna’s mystical potency.
Yeah. That’s nice.
Okay. And he had the instructions always grammarized. Yeah. Yeah. See? Keep the faith. And if you say that association is the most important of all those bhajananandis in our line, they… can we… But what is that? No, can we point out even one? Can we point out one who is a bhajananandi? Yeah, like Prabhupāda, still he associates with Bhaktivinoda. Bhajananandi simply means is that, you know, you’re just sticking to… you’re just practicing your own bhajan. That doesn’t mean that it’s not in the association of devotees. It’s just not that you’re going out and out of the environment of bhajan and preaching to those who don’t really know much about it.
So therefore you can understand that there is bhajananandi meaning going off in the forest and don’t see anybody. They don’t exist. Not in our line.
You know, you go off for austerity and stuff like that. Because other people make noise, but with the bhajanis it’s the other people you’re with and they chant things.
There’s one thing you’re forgetting.
It’s now the ones you’re mentioning, then these are, you know, eternally liberated souls here. Right? So, it doesn’t look like they’re associated with anybody here, but where are they? Where are they performing their bhajan? Right? Yeah, so they’re in Vrindavan and so they’re surrounded by the bhajans. So the point is is you’re either surrounded there or surrounded here. You know, or both. You know, but there’s no question of not being surrounded by the bhajans. Does that make sense?
Thus faith is very important in the discharge of devotional service. So faith is very important, but faith is gained by the association of devotees. Right? So that’s the… Right? So the conviction that simply by serving the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna one can achieve all perfection. So that’s the faith.
Vritya. On the other hand, those who have full faith in the Lord find the path of bhakti easy because the Lord personally protects them. 9.22. But those who always worship me with exclusive devotion, meditating on my transcendental form, to them I carry what they lack and I preserve what they have. The devotee approaches the Lord without difficulty.
One who is unable to live for a moment without Krishna consciousness cannot but think of Krishna 24 hours a day, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, remembering, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all auspicious and full of spiritual potencies which make the devotees perfect in self-realization. So that is his only desire, is to achieve the association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such a devotee undoubtedly approaches the Lord without difficulty. So he wants to achieve that. His full conviction is in that. That Krishna is the ultimate goal and that is all he is interested in. So there is no other.
No other goals.
So the one without faith doesn’t get anywhere but the one with faith then he gets everything. Because the one without faith means you have to have faith then you do something. Right? If you have faith then Krishna can reciprocate. Right? The one who has faith in the demigod Krishna gives that faith in the demigod and he makes the whole process work. If you have faith in something else he gives you that faith and puts it there but if you have no faith what is the interaction with the Lord? Right? So there is nothing. But then here is the person who has that complete faith then Krishna can reciprocate completely.
Here it is clearly stated that there are many types of yajna performances recommended in the Vedic literatures but actually all of them are meant for satisfying the Supreme Lord. Yajna means Vishnu.
In the third chapter of Bhagavad-gita it is clearly stated that one should work only for satisfying One should only work for satisfying yajna or Vishnu. The perfectional form of human civilization known as varṇāśrama-dharma is specifically meant for satisfying Vishnu. Therefore Krishna says in this verse I am the enjoyer of all sacrifices because I am the Supreme Master. So whatever is there all sacrifice anything done anything that is recommended in the Vedas is meant to please Krishna. Though there may be so many steps in between it is meant to please Krishna. So it is only because of our own conditioning our own attachments that we are dealing with this variety of things in between. But the point is it should get to Krishna.
Now he is saying the verses before we should surrender to Krishna.
So by surrendering to Krishna all those steps in between are removed.
So now any activity that is recommended in the Vedas you are only using it as the way to show that affection to Krishna.
Does that make sense? Because you are dealing with the difference here of the the principle of the what was it? falla bhakti and the what was the other? Upaya. Right? In other words your goal is to surrender or you have surrendered.
You understand? Like that. So it places it differently. So there is a different effect.
Falla is where you are trying to get a fruit a result. And upaya means that it is already it is working on the platform of having reached that state.
So all sacrifices so whatever is being done is actually meant to please the Lord. So even if you have it it is like by using by association with the devotees by knowledge that you understand it is not ideal but you can’t move on from it then better to pray to Krishna for it. Because otherwise what is your alternative? If you don’t pray to Krishna for it how are you going to get it?
On your own. On your own. Right? And so do we have any ability on our own? Who gives us that ability? Who gives us the intelligence? That faith? It is still Krishna. So it is still meant but you know that is why it is better to go direct. We will say no we don’t want to bother Krishna or it is not pure devotion. Yes it is not but you have the desire it is also not pure devotion. And that you don’t go to Krishna is also not pure devotion.
Yes?
Meaning?
You pray to Krishna. But if you felt like you didn’t need help more wouldn’t you take shelter in the devotees? How are you defining help here?
Why were you praying to Krishna? Means you want money so you pray to Krishna for money. Yes so if you went to devotees to get some help I increment money. But that is going and getting help but the actual sanctioning of getting the money that the devotees aren’t doing.
You understand?
But that is the practical level but before the practical happens which is avidya you know which is the application of knowledge of the field is you are going to have to have that inspiration and have that goal.
So that is the part where Krishna comes in. But it is also by his grace that even if you are in the association of devotees and go to them for help how to make money still it is only by Krishna’s grace you have the ability to do it.
So it is being pointed out although it is not pure devotion so in other words the idea is that oh ok whatever I have I will go to Krishna. No it is supposed to be you are not supposed to go to Krishna for it so therefore get rid of it. Only if you can’t get rid of it then go to Krishna.
Does that make sense? So that is why these things have this kind of dual aspect in this situation is that it means pure devotion doesn’t have these elements in it but at the same time it is functioning not connected to Krishna is also of no use. So it is better to be functioning connected to Krishna though it is not on the pure platform than to not function in connection with Krishna. Like I remember one devotee they were offering to do service for the deity department. They had full time service and they give them place and facility and money and like that because they had things they wanted done for the department. But he said no I don’t want to take money from the deities like that that is not proper. So his alternative is he is on some you know maybe like Bondi beach or something like that. So it is like somehow or another I am not sure how that is an improvement. Oh we don’t take anything from Krishna but I still Bondi beach is nice because of Krishna.
You know what I am saying? It still comes down to to the point is that still economics and all these different situations are still depending on Krishna’s sanction.
So that is the point if we recognize that then we go to him. If you go to him that is when you start to feel this is stupid. Because when we make our own plans then we are proud of our own abilities and all that because of the demonic nature. So therefore we may go on for a long time and if you have to go to Krishna for it then you know it immediately what you are going to use it for becomes immediately adjusted.
You know because if you went out your plan made the money you do with it whatever you like but if Krishna is going to give you the money it is kind of like you have to see it a little bit more Krishna conscious life.
Can you pray for things like according to what level you are actually going to pray for like Mercedes Benz.
Like I need Krishna please help me get a good night’s rest I got to get up tomorrow. What are you going to do tomorrow when you get up? Oh ok as long as that is the end it comes back to Krishna. Ok.
Yeah like in Gujarat because they worship Srinachi they say we would say Madhavendra Puri’s deity.
They won’t let Sannyasis into the temple. You can be any other Sampradaya as long as you are not a Gaudiya Sannyasi. Because Gaudiya Sannyasis they think will be like Madhavendra Puri and try to come and take Srinath back.
They know you are not going to do that. Ok.
So over there then they are all so you have these train loads and that means the whole train is full of bhoga and stuff for the deities that is going from Gujarat to Nath Dwar. And on the side of the train they put from Srinath to Srinath.
So it is by his grace we got it and now by his grace we are giving it back.
So whatever you have anyway is coming by Krishna’s arrangement. The point is what you do with it.
So the point is it has come means you are getting the good rest from Krishna but you are going to use the effect of that to go to Mangalarthi. So the benefit is coming from the good and going back to Krishna.
That is what I am saying. You get things from Krishna but then how is that going to connect back to him?
I mean if it is something that you need prayer for then by brushing your teeth you don’t necessarily have to pray but the ability to do that you just do that for Krishna because teeth are clean and that is nice and you go to the temple.
But if you are having a problem brushing your teeth like that then you can pray to Krishna to be able to brush your teeth.
But you are praying so that you can worship or serve the lotus feet and render other services like this. You are praying that you can do those.
But to worship then you have to be able to get up in the morning. If you sleep until twelve it is very hard to go to Mangalarthi. So you have to be able to get up. So you are praying that you have to sleep properly so you can’t get up. It is not that you only bother Krishna whenever it is like you need to use the red phone. It is like emergency like the hotline. You can bother him for trivial things also because they will help you in your service. Didn’t we just discuss this? It means these nine processes of devotion these are the prominent but facilities to be able to do that then that would be still the same process but one should be focusing on these not on that.
It is not that I went to Mangalarthi so therefore Krishna can I sleep properly because I am really tired. No it is like sleep properly so I can go to Mangalarthi.
1815 After attaining me the great souls who are yogis in devotion never return to this temporary world which is full of miseries because they have attained the highest perfection.
They don’t get the highest perfection. Those who have attained perfection may come back to those who have attained the highest perfection. So that is generally speaking why then here you say the Uttam Anukar never will return because they have attained the highest perfection. They are absorbed in that service to Krishna. So it is in relationship with the Lord.
But all the non-devotees who attain perfection they all return.
The Mahatmas develop in the association of the realized devotees. The supreme planet is described in Vedic literature as Avyakta and Akshara and Parama Paramagati.
In other words that planet is beyond our material vision and it is inexplicable and it is the highest goal the destination for the Mahatmas great souls. The Mahatmas receive transcendental messages from the realized devotees and thus gradually develop devotional service in Krishna consciousness and become so absorbed in transcendental service that they no longer desire elevation to any of the material planets nor do they even want to be transferred to any spiritual planet. They only want Krishna and Krishna’s association and nothing else. That is the highest perfection of life. This verse specifically mentions the personalist devotees of the Supreme Lord Krishna. These devotees in Krishna consciousness achieve the highest perfection of life. In other words they are the supreme souls.
Receiving transcendental messages from the realized devotees manifest or unmanifest. You want to know if that’s by email or SMS? Twitter. Twitter? Yeah.
We’re going out with the conference boys now.
Someone just stole Madhavan Paul’s lunch.
That would be an interesting interview. So contemplating is that one of the mediums?
Contemplating means you receive. The Mahatmas receive transcendental messages from the realized souls. So it means you’ve heard from them. You hear from them. You see what they do like here. Now we’re receiving transcendental messages from the realized souls. Because Prabhupada is writing here and we’re receiving that. So now we take that and you know what I’m saying? The tendency is then we’ll take it and put that little mystical twist on it. You know, like that. So that’s the one has to be careful with that one. That’s the Russian connection.
Yeah. You know what I’m saying? You’ve received now you contemplate it. You apply it. Because there’s nothing different. There’s real faith and there’s another definition here of faith. Faith means to trust in something sublime. Yeah. But that’s also would be real faith. But this means this would be a fuller. To trust in something sublime. But then here is that simply by serving the Lord one can have all perfection. So that’s that trust. Simply by serving the Lord all perfection can be gained. So that’s the trust.
You know, same thing. It’s just very different ways of explaining it. Bring out different aspects. In other words, there is that faith is in the transcendental not in something material. Right? And so that faith in transcendental means in Krishna. Right? And that all perfection can be obtained by simply serving Krishna. Right? There’s nothing else required.
You are the supreme soul.
Eighteen sixteen. Eight. Hmm? Eight. Oh. Okay. Yeah. It’s true.
From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest all are places of misery where in repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to my abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again.
All types of yogis must cooperate with the Lord in order to attain the planet of no return.
The planet of no return. I could also make a good movie. The planet of no return.
All kinds of yogis karma, jnana, bhakti, etc. eventually have to attain devotional perfection in bhakti yoga or Krishna consciousness before they can go to Krishna’s transcendental abode and never return. So whatever path you’re starting on, whatever aspect is being used more, karma, jnana, all these different aspects, that until one comes to Krishna consciousness or bhakti yoga, then one will not get to Krishna’s abode. Right? So it’s not to anything else other than bhakti can you get to Krishna’s abode. Because that will only be attained by bhakti. Karma, jnana, and yoga can’t give bhakti. And only by bhakti can you get to Krishna’s abode.
Those who attain the highest material planets, the planets of the demigods, are again subjected to repeated birth and death. Because it seems so big there. But the point is, if you’re here eternally, then at some point you’re going to come down, since they’re there temporarily, right? Remember, temporary, eternally. So there’s a lot of temporary in eternal.
So then they’re going to come down again, are again subjected to repeated birth and death.
Mystic yogis, is it that they’re unaware of the benefits of bhakti yoga or are they just not interested? Is there a difference? No, but, yeah. If they know that we’re going top floor, right? And they’re just, well, I mean, I have my own little process. Or is it that they’re just… If they’re their own little process, then that means that wouldn’t be proper. And they, you know, it means not much, they’re not going to get much out of it. You know, maybe move a little ash or something like this and that, a few feet, but the actual yogis, you know, who come to those full, like Durvasa and others, like that, generally they don’t know about it. That’s the whole thing. Like, Maharashtra Krishna Barhisat, you know, or Nirika, they didn’t know about emotional service. Because all their Brahmins didn’t know about emotional service. They only knew about Karmakanda, so they engaged him in Karmakanda. And he did it very well with great, you know, focus and determination.
But then, by the grace of, you know, Narada Muni, then he finds out that there is something more.
So, again, association of devotees. So, these yogis, various kinds of yogis, if they come in contact with the devotees, then they can progress properly, you know, back to God.
As persons on earth are elevated to higher planets, people on higher planets, such as Brahma Loka, Chandra Loka, and Indra Loka, fall down to earth. The practice of sacrifice called Pancagni Vidya, recommended in the Chandogya Upanishad, enables one to achieve Brahma Loka. But if, on Brahma Loka, one does not cultivate Krishna consciousness, then he must return to earth. Those who progress in Krishna consciousness on the higher planets are gradually elevated to higher and higher planets, and at the time of universal devastation are transferred to the eternal spiritual kingdom. In other words, all these yoga processes end up on Brahma Loka, and then when Brahma leaves, then at that time they can go to the spiritual world. But you have to wait till the end of the universe. That’s why it is check your watch. GMT, man.
So then, the difficulty is you have to wait that long. Well, that’s why devotional service is so praised that in one lifetime here, you can go back to Godhead. Because these other processes take that so long. So, one could progress on these higher planets, but the general speaking is who does? If we’re distracted by sense gratification here, why wouldn’t one be distracted by sense gratification there? Just in principle. Let alone, the point is that it’s hundreds of thousands of times better.
So now you see that the planet Earth has a special meaning. Yes, it’s Grand Central Terminal.
Those coming up come here, those coming down come here. So this is the central place. That’s why focus is put here. Because below here they’re not so interested, above they’re not so interested. But this is the place.
Generally speaking, it’s coming here. But there are incarnations throughout the universe. Because he comes and he attracts attention and stuff like that. The Varaha, you could say, is working with the Earth, but it was on a scale that the rest of the universe could appreciate it also.
But therefore all over, Vamana Devi is on the heavens and the planets as a thousand -headed Vishnu. He’s on Brahma-loka. Lord Brahma lives with the Purusa. Sahasra-sirsa, Purusha, Sahasraksha, Sahasra. The Vishnu that is spoken of in Purusa -shukta, he lives with Lord Brahma.
So…
Who would? Because it’s always something mundane. Therefore, sleep is good.
Like they say, transcendence is bliss.
It’s described that the lower planets, like Patala and all those, they enjoy there even more than… Not Patala. No, there’s certain ones.
That’s a little higher, that’s Sutala. But not all of them. No, because… See, on the Earth means you have the heavenly planets who are Indras. Right? Then you have the heavenly planets on the earthly plane, where we are. We’re on one Mandala. But then there’s…
It means everything at this level. So all the Raku-dvipa, this-dvipa, that -dvipa, all those dvipas, that’s also heavenly, meaning it’s higher than here. It’s not as much as Indra’s place, but it’s higher than here. And then you have the lower planets where the demons live. Like that. So that’s… Generally those have more facility than the higher heavenly planets because the demons demand more. You know what I’m saying? You have the guest who comes in the hotel, just use the facilities, go. But the real materialist, he demands this and demands that and all… Whatever maximum facility he can get out of it, he will get.
Because that is everything. So, yeah.
But Patala is known as Patala. It doesn’t mean they don’t have… The part that mentions the nectar of devotion, I think… No nectar of devotion? Yeah, I think nectar of devotion it mentions that…
I think when Krishna would blow his conch or something would disturb all the wine parties of the ladies on Patala. So they’re having their party and then their conch goes and that would kind of like upset their mood.
I guess that’s what it means if I blow their mood, right? If I blow their mood.
But just they have mentioned, you know, they always talk about the heavenly… Because heavenly just means any of that. It means it’s here. It means… You know, every area in the world, you know, known has their area that’s more heavenly. You know, in Los Angeles it’s supposed to be Beverly Hills. You know, New York has its Upper East Side, and some of the Upper West Side. You know, London has its area, Westminster, those areas like that. You know, Paris has its areas. You know, like that. Does that make sense? Every place has what they would consider, you know, where the rich and everything, all the facilities are, these big fancy hotels, you know, very expensive. Like I’m saying, that one… I think it’s… Yeah, Burj Al Arab, that seven-star hotel in Dubai it’s got, I forget what it is, but some ridiculous amount of, something like 28,000 square feet of gold leaf. Everything’s gold leaf. You know, like that. Anything that’s like decoration, it’s all gold leaf. There’s nothing that’s not gold leaf. You know, like that. So, it’s very, in that way, heavenly, but it’s, you know what I’m saying? So, the middle planets, it’s half heaven, half hell. So, in other words, what the bad areas of this planet are like, there’s planets where it’s all like that. And what we call the good, then, you know, it’s all like that.
Yes?
So, the heavenly planets on this level of, of the earth, can you also accumulate karma there, or is it also just… No, no, no, it’s only here. It means that’s where you don’t have enough to be on the other ones, so then you go there. And then from there you come here. Or you may go from there to straight here. You know, just like persons, they come in and they’re just, you know, born in these really wealthy and aristocratic lifestyle. That’s because they still have, you know, it’s not enough piety to keep them in the heavenly planets, but it’s more than enough for here. You know what I’m saying? You know? Yeah, it’s like that, what do you call it? Cliche, the guys, you know, they’re stuck somewhere in the East Block and they don’t have any money, they only got like five bucks, but, you know, they can put them up in a five-star hotel there. You know, that kind of a thing. So, it’s, it’s, it’s that kind of, you know, that’s the other sense.
Vritti, here someone may ask, is the transcendental loving service of Godhead the only injunction of the Vedas? We know that the Vedas recommend many other processes, karma, jnana, and yoga. The reply to this doubt is given in the following, following Harikara. Because, that would come up as that, it seems that all we’re talking about is pure devotional service and that’s it, there’s nothing else. But what about all these other things that are mentioned in the Vedas? You know, are they, are they also not, you know, have some validity?
Harikara, two, good work, salvation by knowledge, or perfection by mystic powers are all subordinate to the transcendental loving service of the Lord. So, it basically confirms their doubt. It’s true. It is the only injunction. Everything else is supported.
Lesson eight, good work, salvation by knowledge, okay, yeah, the lesson itself is the Harikara. 927.
Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, whatever austerities you perform, do that, O Senator Kunti, it’s an offering to me.
I didn’t give the verse numbers after the lesson eight. 927? Oh, okay. Okay.
One should work, eat, give in charity and perform austerities in connection with Krishna. Everyone has to work for maintenance of his body and soul together. And Krishna recommends herein that one should work for him. Everyone has to eat something to live, therefore he should accept the remnants of foodstuffs offered to Krishna. In other words, you have to work to get the food. So that work, right, should be connected to him. And from working, you’ll get food. Everyone has to eat, offer that food to him.
Right? And then from eating, you have energy, so then offer that energy in the form of the work to Krishna.
Yes? Whenever one is chanting Japa, and the mind occasionally drifts out, then… Was that a euphemism?
One must bring it back under the control of oneself. Yes. And then, so then, in this connection, when it says one should work for him, then it reminded me of that devotee he drove the taxi and gave the money to Prabhupada.
So then, and then I was thinking what he did was then he would chant all day like in the taxi. I would expect so. Probably to the chagrin of everybody in the taxi.
And so then, whenever we do activity and we think, OK, this is for Krishna, then I make the clothes clean, mow the peanuts, spice nuts, like peanuts, remember Krishna, like that. Brush teeth. Pardon? Brush teeth. Brush teeth. Sleep well. Sleep well. Put them on the wifey. Then… Then… Pay your taxes. One… Yeah, pay your taxes. When one… Feedback. Feedback. When one… It’s not usually a great… Like it’s just… Like it’s just talking all around the entire time. It’s because the conscious… When one… Try to help.
It’s great. This is the association of the devotees. Surrounded by the association. This is what… This is real surround sound. Yes.
So… Yeah, it’s… So then… Yeah, all my thoughts are finished. That’s great. It’s done too. Just by talking, you don’t just go, hey, wow. Yeah, I know that sometimes someone comes, they have some doubt, they don’t know what to do and they sit in the car and they’re explaining it and they’re going through and this and that. By the time they explain everything, they go, oh, thank you. You know, they walk off and they’re just like, hey, cool.
My question is like whenever the mind goes… It’s like it forgets, you know, we’re doing the activity and then the mind goes off somewhere else. Then… You have to keep reminding it what’s going on? It depends. If it goes off to Krishna then there’s no problem. So there’s… If you’ve practiced at washing your clothes and mechanically you’ll do the clothes nicely anyway. But otherwise then, you know, are you focusing on doing the clothes nicely for Krishna and seeing the, you know, what areas, you know, need to be taken care of? You know, that’s the subject on the front of the shirt and you know, all those kinds of things. Like that.
But it seems like there’s like different quality, you know, different quality of meditation there. No, that’s always there. But the point is, is that…
It means if we’re worried about if these things are engaged and these are… or we’re focused on doing those nicely so the results for Krishna. So the point of the clothes is that they’re clean nicely. Right? So that means that result of clean clothes, that’s the result for Krishna. So then we’re focusing on the washing, the proper washing of the clothes. Right? So then we know the field, right? You know, there’s the… wherever the place is, we have water, we have soap, the clothes, we have us, like that. Or it means the more ideal, we have, you know, the place, the clothes and all that, the soap and someone else. And that, you know, that you know that they’re going to… all this is going to work together. Right? So the person will wash the clothes, rinse it with the water. Not that they’ll wash the water and rinse with the clothes or, you know, in there you’ll loan them money. No, you’ll loan them the clothes. Stuff like this. You have to know what gets done where. Right?
But the point is, is you’re doing that so that you’ll have clean clothes for Krishna. So even if you’re not thinking of Krishna specifically at that time, the results for Krishna, so you get the benefit of that.
But we shouldn’t, like, artificially, you know, think that, oh, here is water, Krishna has a taste of water. No, that’s fine. That’s all… all these ways are just… as long as your clothes get washed.
You know, but if you’re so absorbed in Krishna you can’t even concentrate and wash your clothes, then that’s not a fault either. Everyone will say you’re crazy, but, you know, what do you care?
You’re absorbed in Krishna.
So that’s why before that, if you become good at washing your clothes and even after you’re fully absorbed, you’ll still be able to wash them, just by habit.
So that means now you should be able to think of Krishna while you brush your teeth, because you already have the habit.
We’re still trying to figure out how do you do circles on your teeth when, you know, the elements that you’re working with and that don’t actually do that.
You know what I’m saying? You know what I’m saying? They take the teeth, right? They take that big thing, and that’s monster toothbrush, right? And then they go circles. Right? But if you notice, here’s the teeth, here’s the arm. That means directly in line with the mouth. You don’t have that kind of area that you can do that, you know? It’s completely false, the concept, you know?
So…
We’re just talking about meditating on things brushing your teeth.
Everyone has to work for… Okay. Everyone has to eat something… Therefore, should accept the remnants of foodstuff offered to Krishna. Any civilized man has to perform some religious ritualistic ceremonies. Therefore, Krishna recommends, do it for me. Right? Every civilized… Any civilized man… So uncivilized men may not have some religious ritualistic ceremonies, but civilized men will. You know, you have some scars, you have marriage ceremonies, you have, you know, different things that are attended to. So then, these are done, you know, in connection to Krishna. And this is called arjuna. So even here is that it’s being connected to the deity. And so then, then you have the religious ceremonies include what’s connected to the Lord. So, it’s done without, it’s not part of arjuna. Like you can do a yajna, and it’ll just be a yajna, but if you do a yajna to please Krishna, then it’s part of the arjuna process.
Everyone has a tendency to give something in charity. Krishna says, give it to me. This means that all surplus money accumulated should be utilized further in the Krishna conscious movement. Nowadays, people are very much inclined to the meditational process, which is not practical in this age. But if anyone practiced meditating on Krishna twenty -four hours a day by chanting the Hare Krishna mantra around his beads, he’s surely the greatest meditator and the greatest yogi.
So meditation on its own doesn’t work in this age. So therefore, you can chant on the beads. Because you can chant on the beads longer than someone can sit there staring at a wall.
7.19 After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto me, knowing me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare. Understanding the material world as a perverted reflection of spiritual variegatedness, the impersonalist surrenders to Krishna. In the beginning of spiritual realization, while one is trying to give up one’s attachment to materialism, there is some leading towards impersonalism. But when one is further advanced, he can understand that there are activities in the spiritual life and that these activities constitute devotional service. Realizing this, he becomes attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrenders to Him.
Because otherwise, we’re looking at, we’re giving up, activities are here, we’re giving up the activities here. But when we understand that they’re there, it means we know that Krishna is performing these activities, but the actual element that these activities are the activities of the life of the devotee, does that make sense?
You know what I’m saying? That’s not, that this is what one will be doing. So it’s slightly different.
Then it becomes, then it’s, the connection is more to Krishna rather than to simply giving up the material world.
Does that make sense? Because in the beginning, it’s not as much about attachment to Krishna as detachment from maya. No, the goal is full attachment to Krishna, but the emphasis, because we’re totally attached to maya, so there’s a lot of work there. But as that progresses, we become purified, then we start to become more attached to Krishna. And so, once that happens, then being detached from maya just is automatic. It’s not a separate endeavor.
Realizing this, he becomes attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrenders to Him. At such a time, one can understand that Lord Sri Krishna’s mercy is everything and that He is the cause of all causes and all that is and all that this material manifestation and that this material manifestation is not independent from Him. So you see, a connection is as a person is realized rather than just you know it, you’ve heard it. You know, yes, Krishna is the control. But this is realizing that in relationship to Him as a person. His mercy is what is everything. He is in control of everything. Right? He is the cause of all causes.
So that element, that is a… He realizes the material world to be a perverted reflection of spiritual variegatedness. Right? Means it’s just what goes on here is only because it’s a perverted reflection of what’s there. Right? There, mother showed us with Krishna. So the parental rasa is there. But Krishna is the center. But in the material world you have the same thing. You know, so the relationship how the mother deals with the child is the same. But the difference is Krishna is not the center. Right? The child is the center.
Right? But there, you know, you understand? So then one has to be able to see that disengaging with the child is connected to Krishna.
Right? Either raising to be Krishna conscious or understanding that potency one’s attracted to, that’s Krishna. In some way it has to be connected to Krishna. So it’s a reflection but it’s perverted because now it’s lost its actual purpose.
So that’s why it looks exactly the same. But when you say this sometimes devotees get no, no, no, it’s different. But why would it be different? It’s a reflection, it’s the same.
Right?
Does that make sense? You know, fruits grow on trees. Why do they grow on trees? Because they grow on trees there. Why do cows give milk? Because they do there. Why is water wet? Why do birds fly? You know, you know what I’m saying? That’s because that’s what goes on there. Just there, it’s in its perfection because it’s all connected to Krishna.
Right? Well here, it’s a perversion because none of it means directly connected. There it’s directly connected to Krishna. But here it’s, it’s connected to Krishna because he’s imminent. But if we don’t see that then we’re an illusion.
So therefore it’s perverted.
And realize is that in everything there is a relationship with the Supreme Lord Krishna. Everything, right? So the point is, is you only have to worry about that everything in connection to your life. You don’t have to worry about the everything in someone else’s life. You have to worry about it in your life. Right? Does that make sense? You know, that was the difficulty this morning because we’re always going out to someone else’s life and someone else’s situation. No, it’s the same principles there in our life. So that’s where we have to see it. So everything in our life that’s of value, we have to be able to see Krishna in that.
Everything is a relationship with Krishna. So everything you can relate to Krishna. Right? But it’s the relating with Krishna that makes it special, not what’s going on. Does that make sense?
Thus he thinks of everything in relation to Vasudeva, Sri Krishna. Such a universal vision of Vasudeva precipitates one’s full surrender to Lord Sri Krishna as the highest goal. Right? Thus he thinks of everything in relation to Krishna. Such a universal vision of Vasudeva precipitates one’s full surrender. Because we’ve already said here he’s the cause of all causes and that this material manifestation is not independent from him. Right? So that means that he’s able to see Krishna in everything before that and then understanding that Krishna’s in everything then he surrenders.
I think it means something like it comes before.
Maybe.
There’s a meteorologist here who would want to correct us. It’s the reaction of a catalyst. You get a supersaturated solution of salt and you put something into precipitate and suddenly it turns into Krishna. Oh, okay. Down with very great haste and without due deliberation. Down with very great haste and without due deliberation. Precipitation. That’s one. There must be some other because it also could mean rain.
But I think it just means it works for what it says. Such a universal vision if you take it from there then precipitation means that will be a catalyst for one’s full surrender. That would be right. That such a universal vision. Krishna’s in everything and that’s… I can see it’s one of the qualities of Narada Muni is there’s no topic that he has a problem discussing. Because he sees everything in relation to Krishna so there’s not a problem that there’s some discussion. We’ll have discussion like the other day who gave the example of the cigarette and so that immediately there was a problem. I can’t relate to that. No, but when you say all these nice things then that’s okay but this one’s not. The point is that it’s still the principles going on. But it’s not… the form of it in relationship to the human being then has a problem.
But other words if dry organic substances catch on fire it’s not a problem. Forest burns or anything you make a campfire like that it’s not a problem.
So the principle of it is always connected to Krishna. Because then whether that’s… whether the smoking is good or not that’s another consideration on what is proper activity for a human being. But how the smoke works that’s according to the laws of fire.
You know what I’m saying? But whether you should be playing with the fire that’s another thing.
Does that make sense? Okay.
Okay. So that means all this stuff of trying to understand Krishna and everything then it has the element of precipitating one’s full surrender to Krishna. So it has an advantage. So it’s not a waste of time. Because someone may say no, but we just surrendered to Krishna. Says yeah, great that’s what we’re trying to do. So if you’ve done it then nice. If you’ve done it you understand Krishna’s and everything. But if you complain why are you worrying about all this stuff and everything just surrendering to Krishna means it’s a symptom that the point’s good but it may not have been realized. Yes.
