The verses 4 to 14. Kṛṣṇa is the source of all spiritual and material energies and controller of the three modes.
Verses 4 to 5. Kṛṣṇa summarizes everything that exists in the material world into two categories. Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. These eight constitute Kṛṣṇa’s separated material energies. On the other hand, the living entities who are exploiting these inferior energies for different purposes constitute the superior energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
In the Bhāgavad-gītā lecture, in a Bhāgavad -gītā lecture, Śrīla Prabhupāda explains how the material elements are the separated energy of the Lord.
Bhinnā means separated. An example is when I speak into the tape recorder. When you play the tape recorder, you hear my voice, but it is not me. It is my separated energy. With my energy, I have spoken. I have vibrated some sound, and it is recorded on the tape. When it is played back, it produces exactly the same sound, but it is separated from me. Try to understand. This material world is just like that. Bhinnā, separate. Real life is in the spiritual world. Then these energies, the external energy, Kṛṣṇa says, are separated. Separated means you cannot perceive Kṛṣṇa directly from this energy. Lecture, Bhāgavad-gītā, 74, New Vrindaban, 1974.
Everything we see in the material world is Kṛṣṇa’s energy. The advanced devotees are aware of the connection between the energy and the energetic. Thus, while working in the material world, they can always remember Kṛṣṇa. It seems very simplistic, but actually one has to appreciate what is going on here, that this element that everything is Kṛṣṇa and He is breaking it down. Material energy that you are going to be working with is the earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and false ego. That’s it. Everything else is the senses and the sense objects. The sense objects are made out of these elements.
The senses can perceive them. Then there is the concept of hearing, tasting, smelling, like this. That’s created by Kṛṣṇa. That’s what you are going to do. In other words, your activities are going to be based on this, but what you are dealing with is only that. There isn’t something more.
This is the point. If that is understood, what we are attracted to in this world is just transformations of earth, water, fire, air, and ether. It has a mood to it. There is an ego. There is a mind. There are the feelings that are there. There is a particular intelligence, so they act and endeavor in a certain way.
Does this make sense? If one breaks it down to this, then that means that Kṛṣṇa has put His energy into this world, but it is separated. It still has the effect, but the problem is that you won’t find Kṛṣṇa directly because it is separated. The spiritual world is not separated, so you can directly see Kṛṣṇa. So the direct devotional activities deal with Kṛṣṇa directly.
They are on the spiritual platform. Indirect means you are taking what is here of this world and seeing it in relationship to Kṛṣṇa, but you indirectly see it through this medium.
Does it make sense? So now what is going to happen is that whatever is attracting us in this world, the point is that there is so much of that.
Let’s say we are attracted by food, and it is a distraction for us, but the point is that food, all the varieties of food, all that comes from Kṛṣṇa. It is all in Kṛṣṇa. That is what was in the last chapter.
It is like that. So it is all in Kṛṣṇa. So that means it is all there. It is not like something that is far out in these different manifestations. It is all in Kṛṣṇa.
Then, being in Kṛṣṇa, He is the one who is making it work.
Thousands of arms, thousands of legs, that is all within Kṛṣṇa. Now that is going to then mean that the potency of that attraction, that taste, that fragrances or that looks, that is coming from Kṛṣṇa.
So immediately you see what is there, that matter, you can transfer it back to its actual position in being situated in Kṛṣṇa, being a separated energy. So the point is that Kṛṣṇa is making it work because it is earth, water, fire, air and ether. It is dead matter.
But that means that person is making it work. So then naturally one will look at the person.
Does that make sense? So this is the next step in looking at the Brahman, the energies working, or Paramātmā, our involvement in it. But the point is, it is all happening because of that person. That person is not, oh, he is over there and this is all here. No, all this is in him.
But at the same time, he is separate.
You don’t like Michelin.
Michelin.
Michelin is the other kind of tigers.
Does this make some sense? So in other words, we are seeing how on the Brahman platform, then on the Paramātmā platform, now on the Bhagavān platform, how everything is in Kṛṣṇa.
Does that make sense? So it is not a light thing, this. Because Kṛṣṇa says by a higher taste you will give up a lower taste. So if you have lower tastes that bother you, the point is, what are these tastes, what are they actually? The dead matter. What makes them have a taste? That is Kṛṣṇa’s potencies. Where are these potencies and this dead matter situated? In Kṛṣṇa. Right? And whatever variety there is, it is all there. Because there is unlimited variety as far as our mind is concerned. So by mental speculation we will say, okay, this didn’t work, maybe that will work. Maybe this will work. We have been doing that since time immemorial. Trying to get in all the variety. Okay, then we will give it up. No. At some point you just have to understand it is not going to work. And Kṛṣṇa, He is the higher taste. Right? So we say tasting a higher taste you give up a lower. He is the higher taste. He is the taste that is there in this. But it is indirect, it is separated.
Right? But it is coming from Him.
Right? Him and His energies. The internal potency. But the point is, it is Him that is attractive.
Does this make sense?
So it is a very, you know, important technique.
You know, to understand this and be able to apply it.
The advanced devotees are aware of the connection between the energy and the energetic. Thus while working in the mature world they can always remember Kṛṣṇa. So seeing the mechanics of just the mature world separated like this, or how Kṛṣṇa has entered everything, or that everything is situated in Him, or that He is in control of it through the modes of nature. He is sanctioning His Paramāma. Any of these ways we can see. Because Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, so unlimited ways. But Kṛṣṇa is giving some very key ways. Right? Ones that are always going to work. Like we have recipes. If you understand the cooking process, then there is a certain technique that you can use. Let’s say you want to cook a particular class of subject. Right? Let’s say a dry stir-fried vegetable.
Right? So then that means you are going to put your ghee, you are going to put your spices, and then you are going to put your vegetables, and you are going to, you know, they will be simultaneously fried, and you put a lid on so they get steamed. Right? And you will cook it until it is soft. Right? So now, that basic thing is you can put in a variety of spices.
Right? How you can do it? You can keep it really simple. Right? Just some chili, some cumin, some hing, some, how you say, turmeric. Like that. Or you can make a variety of simple spices or combinations.
Right? And then you have all the different vegetables that you can put into that. Right? So you can do that with basically anything that doesn’t have water in it. Right? So you can’t do it with spinach or with squashes. Right? Because they are going to, they are just going to turn it into soup anyway. So you don’t bother with those ones. Right? Does that make sense? So now in that, what is there, and then you can combine vegetables. Now in that, there will be certain ones that will be outstanding.
Right? Certain combinations of spices with certain vegetables, that will be special. So in this way you can make hundreds of, how you say, preparations. But of those there will be certain ones that are outstanding.
Does that make sense? The combination is really, is more special. So in other words, there is unlimited ways to see Krishna. But Krishna is pointing out these ones that will be more special to us. They will stand out.
Does that make sense?
So that’s why then these should be taken seriously. These aren’t just, okay, Krishna is saying this. These are ways how you can get out of the material energy. You know? We are only saying that is because the best way is just see Krishna, surrender to Krishna and you are out. Right? It only takes that long, how long it took to say that. That’s all the longer it takes. that’s the best. If that doesn’t happen, then you start following the sadhana. Right? And if that doesn’t keep you busy, then you bring in these elements.
Does that make sense?
On the other hand, the materialistic scholars try to understand the energy without connecting it with the energetic. Out of ignorance, they limit their study with the gross material elements only. And if they have any idea of the Lord’s spiritual energy, it is very vague and incomplete. As Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport to verse 5.
Right here, just on this this binna, I think it’s very important. Is that this point, Prabhupada is saying it’s separated energy. He’s spoken, it’s in the tape recorder, it can play it back. It’s not, it’s not directly connected with him anymore. Because he’s not speaking. But he says it produces exactly the same sound.
Right? But now it’s very important to understand when it’s separated, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have the potency. Material energy is Krsna’s separated energy. But it has the potency. The potency is from the energetic.
Does it make sense? So that means, if you have a lecture of Prabhupada, right, it has as much validity now that we listen to it as when he’s spoken. Don’t fall for the trap that this is just a representation of it, but it’s only if you were there, that’s the real thing. Because then everything’s in the past. There’s no present. Spiritual means present. It doesn’t go away.
You know what I’m saying? Because if you do that, then you always have to be directly in the association of somebody.
Right? But the problem is, is then it’s only spiritual as long as you’re right there and hearing. What happens when they get up and go to the bathroom? Then you’re bereft of any spiritual. Because if you think about it, you’re only thinking about what was spiritual, but is not now. You understand? It’s a very, very bogus philosophy. But unfortunately, the mind likes bogus philosophies, so it catches on. Oh, yes, because what’s the purpose of this? Because you can’t be with these other people, you have to be with this particular person right now, otherwise you get no spiritual benefit. And then when they’re dead, same problem.
So then everyone will leave that person, go off to the next one. So in this way, then you have your…
How do you say? Like musical chairs or something.
Musical Vyasa songs.
Okay.
As Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport to verse 5, In the material energy, the principal manifestations are eight, as above mentioned. Out of these, the first five manifestations, namely earth, water, fire, air and sky, are called the five gigantic creations or the gross creations. These are Mahabhuta. Maha, the great. Bhuta, the great elements.
Within which the five sense objects are included.
They are manifestations of physical sound, touch, form, taste and smell, because they go within these, because each one brings out these different elements. You understand? Because when you define the creation, you can define… We say 24 elements, that’s because everything’s unfolded. But everything packs back into itself, like all the senses, sense objects and all that. So the working senses, as well as the knowledge acquiring senses and the sense objects.
And then those go back into the mind.
Does that make sense? But the thing is, what they’re working with, sound is working with ether. Touch is from air.
How do you say? Form or sight is from fire. Taste is from water. Smell is from earth. Right? So they’re coming from there. So then… Does it make sense? So it’s that, when you say the great elements, it’s because they’re the basis of everything that we see.
Material science comprises these ten items and nothing more.
But the other three items, namely mind, intelligence and false ego, are neglected by the materialists. Right? Because they know nothing about it. So it’s like, you know, they’re very intelligent, but they still know nothing about it. It’s just the way it works. Philosophers who deal with mental activities are also not perfect in knowledge because they do not know the ultimate source, Krishna.
The false ego, I am, and it is mine, which constitute the basic principle of material existence, include ten sense organs for material activities.
Intelligence refers to this total material creation called the mahat-tattva.
Therefore, from the eight separated energies of the Lord are manifested the twenty-four elements of the material world, which are the subject matter of Sankhya, atheistic philosophy. They are originally offshoots from Krishna’s energies and are separated from Him. But atheistic Sankhya philosophers with a poor fund of knowledge do not know Krishna as the cause of all causes. The subject matter for discussion in the Sankhya philosophies is only the manifestation of the external energy of Krishna, as it is described in Bhagavad-gita. So what we’ve taken is that you have the five gross and then these sense objects, the tan-matras. So those have come from there. So these ten are all that the scientists work with. They don’t work with beyond that. Then those who get into the soft sciences, then they work supposedly with the mind, intelligence, falsity, but they don’t really. They can’t even define what it is. Because at this point when we say, I and mine, that’s your identity, and therefore, what’s yours? So that’s your gain and safety. I’m the controller and enjoyer. It’s the whole basis of polluted consciousness.
If I’m the controller, it means that’s my identity. I am. And what I can enjoy, that’s mine.
Does that make sense? So now we’ve gotten into the subtle ones.
So this is the basic principle of material existence. Why we’re here is because of the mind. So these include the ten sense organs for material activities. So the mind, the false ego, that means the mind is, it’s how we identify the particular manifestation of the mind is the false ego. So this false ego then includes the ten senses. The five working and the five knowledge acquiring. So those are going to act according to what my identity is and what I consider mine.
Does that make sense?
So then here now you have the sense organs. The other ten, now here again ten.
So that’s everything.
Right? That ten, this ten.
Right? Then you have mind, intelligence and false ego. So I’d say 23 and then polluted consciousness, I and mind. So that comes from the false ego.
Does that make sense? Right? And then all this can be taken back into the modes. The mind will go back into goodness. The senses, sense objects into passion. The sense objects will go back into, and then the Mahabhutas will be ignorance.
So between goodness, passion, ignorance, and also the false ego will be ignorance. Then you’ll get everything.
So that’s why the modes control everything because everything is coming from, expanding from the three modes. That’s what makes it expand. So what we’re dealing with is these five gross elements, the sense objects, then the five senses, I mean the ten senses. Right? And then mind, intelligence and false ego. And polluted consciousness, I and mind. That’s the 24 elements.
Yes? What is the difference between polluted consciousness and false ego? Polluted consciousness and false ego. Means, basically you could say, not much. The polluted consciousness is false ego. Pure consciousness is real ego. In other words, how you identify yourself, how you see yourself involved.
Because you’re going to do something in a field based on your identity. Does that make sense?
And so then they bring that up, as these 24 are discussed in the Sankhya, but in the atheistic. So now we’re bringing it up to the actual platform of the proper understanding of these 24 elements according to how Krishna defines them. Does that make sense? So we’ve dealt with the material scientists, we’ve dealt with all the psychologists and philosophers, and now we’ve dealt with Sankhya.
So that covers everything in the creation. Now that will be defined in the Gita. Does that make sense? Maharaj, can you please explain what is meant by intelligence refers to the total material creation according to Mahatma? Okay, yeah, we’ll see. His intelligence is discriminating between what’s there and what its options are. So that means when Mahat is manifest, the souls, along with false ego, come into, and time, they come into the Pradhan. So Pradhan transforms into Mahat, the Mahatatva. So in there is all the principles, everything that can be defined, because your primary creation will happen in that state. So one is able to perceive all that. So that gives you your options by which then your false ego you can try to control and enjoy. Right? But what you’re seeing, it would be the gross manifestation.
But actually it’s based on the subtle.
Is that okay?
That make sense?
In the Bhagavad-Gita, the Lord refutes the atheistic Kapila Sankhya’s philosophy. Following the process initiated by Kapila, people fail to understand the truth about the Lord and His energies for hundreds and thousands of years. In verse 4 to 5, the Supreme Personality of Godhead lifts the shroud of mystery and reveals the truth with a few simple words. Unless one listens from Krishna or Krishna’s representative, one cannot understand Krishna’s opulences, potencies, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation.
And unless one knows about the Lord’s opulences, one can never enter into the realm of pure devotional service. Nor can he deliver others from the material existence. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta 2.117 and Madhya-lila 22.65, a sincere student should not neglect the discussion of such philosophical conclusions, considering them controversial. For such discussions strengthen the mind, thus one’s mind becomes attached to Lord Sri Krishna. One who is expert in logic, argument and the revealed scriptures and who has firm faith in Krishna is classified as a topmost devotee. He can deliver the whole world.
So these philosophical conclusions, one shouldn’t, oh, but someone can say this, one can say that. I’ve heard devotees who don’t really want to get into philosophy or study because they say you can take the verse and interpret it in so many ways. Yes, it’s true. Because that’s what the meaning of mimamsa is. Mimamsa means the method of interpretation.
And then the English word would be hermeneutics.
So that defines how you would interpret the verse. So yes, you get, so you get six major schools. And then from these six major schools, you take bits and pieces and combine them together. You either have those main six or you’ll end up with a whole bunch of others, another 20 odd manifestations of different varieties of these. Does that make sense?
So, that’s true. But the point is, is the acaryas give us what is the actual understanding.
So you understand it in light of what they give. Then there is no controversy. Then you can see as you’re discussing it from different angles of vision. So this is called vichar.
Different sides, that then strengthens the mind. Because the mind then sees through so many ways, it gets much more understanding. But it has to be in line with what the acaryas say. So generally what happens is if there’s a difference, it means you are actually taking up a mimamsa of something else, not of what Prabhupada is saying, not of what the acaryas are saying. Does this make sense?
One who is situated in knowledge of Krsna and acts accordingly is executing devotional service. Or, as Srila Prabhupada writes in Renunciation Through Wisdom, devotion resides in perfect knowledge of the Supreme.
This is confirmed, and this is in the note, this is confirmed in the Bhaktivedanta Purport, this is C.C. Adilila 7.1.20, no, 1.02. Bhakti develops in pursuance of Vedanta philosophy. This is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, right? So then, trying to understand the philosophy, once devotion develops, why would it develop? What is the philosophy defining?
Krsna and His energies. How they work, how would all that work. So, therefore, then one develops so much affection for Krsna. That’s why I said it’s very important to understand His name, form, qualities and pastimes, His opulences. Because only then can you get out of the material world. Because if you don’t understand them, then you won’t get out of the material world.
Right? Does that make sense? The brahmavadi and the one who is absorbed in Paramahamsa don’t get out of the material world.
Someone who is absorbed in Bhagavan, he gets out of the material world. The others, they stay.
The seriously inquisitive student or sage, well-equipped with knowledge and detachment, realizes that absolute truth by rendering devotional service in terms of what he has heard from the Vedanta-sruti. Right? So, in other words, we render service according to what we’ve heard. We don’t make it up. It’s very important. The words bhakti-sutra-grihi-taya in this verse are very important, for they indicate that bhakti must be based upon the philosophy of the Upanisads and Vedanta-sutra.
Srila Rupa Goswami said, devotional service performed without reference to the Vedas, Puranas, Pancharatras, etc., must be considered sentimentalism, and it causes nothing but disturbance to society. Right? So, many times devotees like to bring in, quoting from somewhere else, some modern contemporary environment, some modern contemporary work. You know, it’s saying yukta-vairagya. Fine. But the point is, is they can’t take that back to Vedanta. So, it’s not exactly yukta-vairagya. It’s sentimentalism.
Because we see, with time, it causes a disturbance.
Because it is so gray. It means, we’re still talking Gita, right? No? Right? But these other books, they come and go. Right? Means, last couple of years, there’s a rage in something. Before that, there was some other thing. Back in the 90s, there was some other thing. And it’s always going. And we see, if you look at it, has it actually improved the social environment? No. It’s just a disturbance.
So, yukta-vairagya, that’s okay, as long as you can bring it in line with Vedanta. You can’t bring it in line with Vedanta. Don’t fool yourself and say it’s yukta-vairagya. Right? Because yukta means connected to Krishna. You can only connect to Krishna through Vedanta. Vairagya means you’ve given up the attachment to the result. But why are you saying, no, yukta-vairagya? Because you’re attached to the results of dealing with that thing, that you don’t see in connection to Krishna. So, there’s no yukta and no vairagya.
Right? But you see that, that’s yukta-vairagya.
Right? Prabhupada’s seeing the tape recorder in this example, in connection to Krishna, that’s yukta-vairagya.
He’s seeing how the tape recorder is working in the same potency, how the Lord and His energies, the separated energy, how that functions.
That’s yukta-vairagya.
Does that make sense? But otherwise, it’s sentimental. Right? It sounds nice, it sounds great, sounds fabulous, but none of it’s worked. Nothing. Zip.
If it’s worked, that’s another thing, but it’s not working. You know what I’m saying?
That’s the point. Does that make sense?
Yes.
What makes us believe it’ll work? Means which?
The things that don’t work, because we… Do we believe in the material world? Yes, but does it work?
It does, it gets you what you want. You’re happy, you’re satisfied. Five million people are sitting in the promised land of milk and honey, in Canaan, in perfect peace and harmony, with 100 million neighbors around them that wish they weren’t there.
So is it working? No. So that’s the problem.
The problem is the material world. It sounds great, it’s a good concept, but the point is, if it’s not connected to Vedanta, it’s just sentiment that it works. You connect it to Vedanta, then it actually does work. But what does it work for? Elevating yourself from here to the spiritual platform. And if you use it according to Vedanta, you can actually make the material world work properly, as good as it works. But it’s designed… It’s inherent… It’s like the modern economic theory, you make something and it will fall apart, so you buy it again. So it’s made that way. It will fall apart. It means you set things up, you set up your business, the family, and this and that, it will fall apart. You set up the family tradition, it will fall apart.
It’s just the way it’s designed. It’s done that way, just so that the living entity starts to contemplate, why am I so frustrated when everything seems so real?
That we’re here, we’re the body, we make the endeavor, we get the results, the feelings that I have in the mind and all that are shared with others, it seems so much substance.
But ultimately, there is nothing. We’re left with nothing.
It’s all memories in the past, something that was, or maybe something that will be.
But what’s going on now?
What do you actually have? That’s the problem.
So, by seeing it in connection with Vedanta, you understand it’s, yes, because the soul doesn’t belong here, they belong in the service of the Lord. But since we’re situated here in the inferior enemy, yes, the inferior enemy, no, actually it’s the superior enemy, the inferior energy. So, well, actually maybe the inferior enemy, because ourselves is the greater enemy. Then, one can see how Krishna is in everything, and so one can see how to connect it to Krishna. And by being connected to Krishna, it works according to the Lord’s laws. He controls the material energy, and material energy works according to His laws. You follow the laws, and with the philosophy, you can connect to Krishna. So, you get, efficiently, work within the material environment at the same time as you elevate yourself to the transcendental platform.
Does that make sense? So, you get both, but you can only get because you’re working on naiskaranya. We have this false concept that I’ll want and I’ll get. It’s only when you don’t want, you get. When you want, you can’t get. It’s just the way it works.
Does that make sense? So, the problem is, we have a false premise on how it should function, and it will never function according to that false premise.
It can’t, because the mental speculation doesn’t make it work.
As we see, the mind, the senses, and the ego, all those things like that, but it’s actually the intelligence is the place where the mahat is. Everything is based on the mahat. The secondary manifestation is based on the mahat -tattva.
So, that’s why Krishna mentioned before, through spiritual intelligence, by being conscious of Krishna, one can use spiritual intelligence to therefore deal with the material energy properly. See it in relation to Krishna.
Does this make sense?
Yes.
Yeah, yeah. But that you’ll do anyway.
Means, you’ll use something, but the problem is, you have to function within the social system. In the social system, as you increase prestige, then, you know, something is always out of fashion, even if it works good. So, fashion is what is perceived as important, not actually what works.
You know what I’m saying?
You know, perceived value was, let’s say, you know, a gold pocket watch, you know, with these amazing movements in it that were so well made that you buy it and then it gets given to your son and your grandson can use it. You know, by that time, then it might, you know, wear out. But even then, these companies, you can give it in and they’ll fix it and replace the parts.
It’s like a huge monster plastic, you know, thing that, you know, it’s something like, previously, like when I was a kid, that’s what kids would wear. You know, little kids, you get a three -year-old one of those. But now that’s like, you know, fashion.
But it’s not so good. So, like what you’re saying, you’re creating a perception. You know, because ultimately, if they wanted it to work it would fall apart, you know, immediately, and then you’d want another one. But then how to generate your desire to always buy something that falls apart. So, therefore, it’s easier to change your focus from one thing that falls apart to another one that falls apart. You know? And as you said, better is, since it can’t fall apart immediately, that’d be too obvious. Therefore, you, you know, so therefore the phrase, oh, that’s so last week, you know, so that moves things on real fast, you know. So is that a result of material energy that we have to save dissatisfaction?
Well, the material energy, well, the cause for variety is natural to the soul, because the soul is energy, so energy means variety. Right? So, that’s inherent in the soul. Because ananda means you’re going to be, means that, but tasting the different varieties based on the situation, because when you have a situation, you perform an activity, you get a result, the result becomes part of the situation, the situation is changed. So now, again, you act on that situation, and then that will generate another result, which will come back and become part of the situation. So the situation is constantly changing, because you’re constantly adding something to it. Right? That’s why the energy expands.
Right? Because that’s what it does, it adds more and more. Right? But here, you add more and more, and then one day you die. So there’s kind of like a limit on how much you can add. But in the spiritual world, it’s unlimited. There is no end. So the variety is unlimited.
Does that make sense? So variety is inherent. So all they’re doing is playing upon this. So basically, your marketing is just taking the psychology of how people think and all that. So they don’t know why, they don’t know that these needs, desire and needs inherent in the soul, the soul is coming from God. You know, how the mind works, how the intelligence, they just know the effect.
So they study it in effect of what they want to get, which is economics. So that’s why you’re always going to have a problem with all these modern theories that you want to engage in the Lord’s service, is that they’re not connected to the Lord. Devotees only connect, you know, that they’ll get the result to the Lord. So that’s good. But they don’t understand the mechanics that is there is limited.
You know what I’m saying? It’s just like, it’s geared at economics. Like, sambandha abhidheyam prayoja, where you are now, where you want to get to, how to get there. That’s the basis of strategic planning.
No? That is strategic planning, not just whether you want to start with where we want to go, then where we are, then make the plan, or we’re here and we want to get there and make the plan. You know, somehow or another they think these are two different schools, right? But, you know, whatever. So, but that concept that’s been on, you know, there in the ISKCON, you know, kind of like administrative scene now for, what, ten years or something like that? It just got thrown out at the last GBC meeting.
They’ve been working on it for ten years. They just threw it out. Why? Because it’s based on economics. If you look at the things that they’ll define as sambandha, it’s all consideration of economics.
So therefore, you can’t make a complete system based on economics.
Right? Minimum you can work at is Dharma. And that will include artha, kama and moksha. But to start on that, it’ll never work. It can’t work.
You know what I’m saying? And then you’re going to make everything prosperous. Probably that means money, but is prosperity only, only defined by facility or by management?
What about knowledge? What about devotion? Is this generating knowledge?
Is the situation we’re in of ignorance and the plan to get knowledge, is that part of this plan? No. Why? Because it’s not part of how the materialists make that concept.
Right? Businessmen use it for economics. You know, the military uses it for their work. Right? And that’s where it ends. You know? You might have a school, okay, they may do their thing there for knowledge, but the point is, it’s not complete. So sambandha, abhidheya, and prayoja, that’s complete. It’s a philosophy. It’s Vedanta. But when they discuss strategic planning, there is no Vedanta. Therefore it fails. Not because the principle is wrong. Because they don’t even know what the principle is.
That’s the problem. You understand? So this is the difficulty with the yukta -vairagya of these kinds of concepts. Because they have no idea. They don’t know. Not that what they’re talking about isn’t valid, but what they’re talking about is only valid because it is defining something of Krishna’s creation. Now what defines Krishna’s creation better than Vedanta?
So whatever you’re looking for, it’s there. You just have to have your intelligence to apply it.
So we don’t have that. Someone else had it. They observed material energy. They came up with these plans, these ideas. But their observance is polluted.
So that means this application is polluted.
So unless you can draw from the essence, but how will you draw the essence unless you know Vedanta?
You know? And if you say that this, oh well you don’t know so much philosophy. We’re just practical managers, know how to get things done. Yeah, you’ve just got yourself thrown out. That’s real practical.
Does that make sense? You know, so I don’t know if he was giving this directive a thing. Otherwise we’ll always keep in the back, oh yes, no, but let’s just bring out anyone you want. And they’d never work. They can’t work until they’re connected. You know something? You wanted to say something? Okay.
You understand? So this is the difficulty.
Is that it’s not being seen according to what Lord Caitanya says.
You know?
The seriously inquisitive student or sage well equipped with knowledge and detachment, well equipped with knowledge and detachment, realizes that absolute truth by rendering devotional service in terms of what he has heard from the Vedanta Shruti.
Okay. Then Rupa Goswami says, devotional service performed without reference to the Vedas, Puranas, Pancaratas, etc., must be considered sentimentalism. And it causes nothing but disturbance to society. That’s all it does.
You know, it doesn’t do anything more. If it would, why hasn’t it?
That’s the point.
There are different grades of Vaisnavas, Kinista Adhikari, Madhyam Adhikari, and Uttam Adhikari. But to be a Madhyam Adhikari preacher, one must be a learned scholar in the Vedanta Sutra and other Vedic literatures because when Bhakti Yoga develops on the basis of Vedanta philosophy, it is factual and steady.
Right?
The perfect knowledge of the absolute truth must result in pure devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no devotional service performed. We must assume that the knowledge of the absolute truth has not reached maturity. This is confirmed in Bhagavad Gita 15.19.
Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead without doubting is the knower of everything. He therefore engages himself in full devotional service to Me, O son of Bharata. Right? So from knowledge, then we don’t doubt. Then we’re going to engage ourselves. How do we engage ourselves is according to what’s given in the Shastra, what’s the philosophy. Right? So it says Vedanta, it means the philosophy.
So all activities are based on the philosophy.
And if it’s based on anything else, it will be a disturbance.
Yes? And why is it still called devotional service if it brings only disturbance? It’s not called devotional service.
Okay, you’re going to say devotional service performed without reference. That would mean that you’re following the rituals of devotional service. But if you’re not doing it according to the Vedas and Pancaratas, what’s the meaning?
Many people, they don’t know any Vedas. They just have Bhagavad Gita. They have Bhagavad Gita. That’s the essence. It means Vedanta means the end of knowledge. Right? So, the Veda itself, you have the Samhita, which is the verses.
Then… So, that’s the beginning. Right? Then you have the Brahmanas, the second book, which defines how to use them in the various aspects of ritual.
Right? According to the Griha Sutras and Dharma Sutras. Then your third… So, that’s the first. That’s Purva. Then Uttara, that means the second half. Then you have the Aranyakas, that gives the, you know, the esoterics of what’s going on in the ritual, the metaphysics and all these kind of things. And then the fourth is the Upanishads, which is the conclusion of the Veda. Like, what’s the philosophical purpose of it? What’s the ultimate goal? So, that’s Vedanta. Right? So, the… So, the Upanishads then are Vedanta, the end of knowledge. So, Vedanta Sutra is written to give the essence of what’s in all the Upanishads in sutra form. And Gita is the Gita Upanishad. It is the essence of all of the Upanishads, but given in this, you know, Puranic form.
You understand? So, Bhagavad Gita is Vedanta Sutra.
You understand?
Because, means Vedanta is, you know, is, means the end of knowledge. So, it says Vedanta Sruti here.
So then, what’s been authorized? We have Puranas, Bhagavata, we have the Pancharatra, what Prabhupada’s given us up there. You know, we have what’s important, he’s given us. So, that will define. So, if you work according to these books, it works.
Now, one can say, if one says, well, we’ve tried that, it didn’t work, then it means he didn’t try good enough.
You know what I’m saying? The man tried business, it didn’t fail, it didn’t work, so then he says, okay, economics doesn’t work. I’ll try some other method to make money. Is that going to work? No. So, if you try to apply the scriptures, it doesn’t work in your life, you can’t say, well, I’ll use some other alternative. There isn’t any.
Because God’s in control of the material energy. It works according to His direction. His direction is defined in the scriptures.
You want to get anywhere in the material world, you have to follow the scriptures.
Does that make sense? So, like that, there isn’t an alternative to that. Other things can be seen in relationship too, but they can’t replace.
You know, it’s like someone in a meeting, then they bring up something that’s incorrect with our philosophy. You know, like that, they’ll make a comment in a management meeting, and then you’ll raise your hand and you’ll say, excuse me, but you know, according to, that’s not correct. And then the person will say and get away with it, oh, so on this point we agree to disagree.
It’s kind of like, no, we don’t. You don’t know the philosophy. What you’re saying is bogus philosophy, so it’s not a matter of, we agree, okay, as long as we agree that what I’m speaking is correct philosophy, what you’re speaking is bogus philosophy, then we agree to, you know, that we have differences of opinion. Unless you say it like that, then we don’t, we don’t, I don’t agree.
You understand? So, this goes on.
Why? Because, this point of, oh, then we agree to disagree, this is all part of your political correctness. This is all part of, you know, what do we call that? You know, the problem solving, and, what’s that? Facilitating, and all those kind of things. It all comes out of there. It’s born from that. Which is simply some so-called psychological understanding of how to use the mind and emotions and intelligence to get a political solution accomplished. Or a social solution. But it does not see this knowledge and connection with the Supreme Lord. Therefore, it will give trouble. Because here, someone’s completely misapplying it.
Because the point, get done what you need to get done. Because they never function on dharma. They’re not functioning on moksha. Right? They wouldn’t have a clue what karma is. Because that only leaves them hard to. Right?
You know, the Westerners, have facility, wouldn’t know how to enjoy it, you know, if they came up and slapped them in the head.
You know what I’m saying?
Yes? If someone’s weak in their Krishna consciousness, and, they’re presenting something to you that, it’s not necessarily like a philosophical, like, deviation, like you were saying, in that high path meaning, but on, just on a personal level, they’re doing something that you don’t agree with. But their connection with Krishna consciousness or what their relationship is with you. Yes? Is it okay to, to present what you’ve been taught? It depends upon who you’re listening to. If you’re listening to those, those schools that say, you know, speak the truth and all this and that. But generally, they’ll say, no, you have to be nice and supportive and let them do whatever they like, you know, but then, then to, you know, others who speak the truth and like that. So in other words, you have to discriminate in all these, generally most of these schools, not all of them, but anything to do with the political correct and all these things. If it’s to do with authority, then you’re truthful and direct and blunt and gross and disgusting. But if it’s with somebody who’s not an authority, then you have to be completely supportive and everything like this and, you know, whatever they want to do is okay and everything like that. So you have to be able to make these two opposing, how you say, approaches.
But the way you tell the difference on who to apply it to is, are they in a position of authority or are they not? So that’s, that’s how you tell. Would that be fair enough? Yeah? So, in other words, what Bhakti Vinod Thakur says, you know, putting this, this stuff aside because it doesn’t always work because most people can’t tell when to use it and when not to use it in that way. And the point is, is it’s, it’s, what’s the problem with authority? You know what I’m saying? So, it generally boils down to authority issues. So, now, the real point is this, what are they saying? Right? What’s the situation? What are they saying? You have to go to the essence of it. Because the principle of everything is not wrong. I mean, the principle of anything is not wrong. It’s the not seeing it in connection to Krishna and when they apply it in the detail, this is where the problems come up. But the principle is not wrong. You know, say, they’re saying, well, you know, I can’t always, you know, you know, do like that. I can’t always chant. You know, so many other things to do and it gets so distracting and stuff like that. So, the point is, you have to see is, is, what’s the point? They don’t know what the point is. They’re just saying these things. But the point is, is that, Rupa Goswami mentions, you got to balance, you have to balance, you know, your, how much you can do in devotional service and how much you should do. Right? So, in other words, you should chant 16 rounds, but you can only chant 8.
You know, because of your distractions and attachments and this and that and whatever it is, that’s how much you’re willingly able to do. So, the point is, is this, then you’re trying to help them find, so you’re saying, no, no, well, it’s okay, you know, you chant what you can and all this and that. But you’re not being sentimental here because you know the philosophy. That’s just what I’m saying. It goes back to Vedanta.
So, Rupa Goswami is saying this, but the point is, so now you do that, you have all these other things, but as time goes and all these other things will become, you know, more balanced and all that, then you’ll be able to chant more and all that because, you know, but you don’t get, you know, you know what I’m saying? So, if it’s on the relationship then you don’t get all preachy about it. But at the same time as you do say what’s there because it’s a friend. So, you have to know when you say truth, it doesn’t mean facts. Truth means Krishna. Truth means Vedanta.
You know what I’m saying? So, even here we’re saying when we talk the truth, you know, we’re straightforward. Yeah, that’s good. But why is it? But what is truth and what is straightforward? That they don’t know. But the principle of being truthful, being straightforward, that’s a good thing. You know? We want to be all, you know, natural and in harmony with the universe and not to do anything and not disturb others. The principle is good. Why? Because it’s God’s creation. So, we should be in harmony with God and His creation. But that approach is not Vedanta. It’s sentimental. But within that, the basis of the principle is you can… it’s there in Vedanta. You just have to connect it and then bring it out from there. So, the problem is the devotees who take these things up, they sound great. But without connecting to Vedanta, they’re absolutely useless. They make you feel good for some time and then that’s it and then you have to find something else. Otherwise, if one thing worked, wouldn’t people be using it? You know? Why is it you can go online, there’ll be millions of solutions to your problem.
Right?
So, that’s the difficulty. So, what we’re saying here is very practical. But it means intelligence, means one has to be, one must be a learned scholar in the Vedanta Sutra and the Vedic and other Vedic literatures.
Right? Because one who develops… But when Bhakti-yoga develops on the basis of Vedanta philosophy, it is factual and steady. It’s real. It’s steady. Because you see like this, then you can make it like that and then you can help others. That’s how you preach.
You know what I’m saying? The person is, you know, a celebrity and so there’s things like that and they’re very prominent. So, that’s important to them. But the point is, is that performing, if that’s your duty, the performance of your duty, how to perform your duty properly, you know, how to see that proper connection. Are you doing, that means, you know, are you being, are you in public? Do people know that you’re there? You can’t be a celebrity if nobody knows who you are. Right? So, you have to be out there. So, that means you have to be in the public eye. You know? And so, there’s certain things you have to do. But that’s because that’s how Krishna’s made it.
You know what I’m saying? So, that’s the thing. It means the king, he wants to get something done. But, you know, it’s something new in the public and all that. Then he has people go out, his people go out into the market and start talking about it. That’s Artha Shastra. You know what I’m saying? So, you understand like that, then you can do all these things. So, what’s the problem?
You know what I’m saying? But we’re doing it because that’s what Shastra says. Not because that’s what, you know, how you say, you know, Herman’s book on, you know, how you say, political, you know. You know what I’m saying? It’s like that.
Is that OK? Does this make some sense? This wasn’t too blunt?
Because otherwise we’d have been very unblunt for quite a few months.
Yes.
I already explained.
Means his point is no thought, you know, or no work actually is completely useless. There’s always something useful in it because it’s connected with Krishna’s creation. The uselessness is that you don’t see its connection to Krishna. So, if you see the connection, then you can start to work on it. You can start to work, but that means you have to know the philosophy to connect it.
Right? As a madhyama. Kinistra doesn’t know this and that. They do the best they can. OK, fine. If one’s going to preach, one has to know. So one can’t claim to be a preacher and then speak, you know, modern gobbledygook.
You know, one has to, one has to base it on philosophy, on the Vedic literatures.
Otherwise, one is not knowledgeable.
Does that make sense?
You know, it’s like, like Prabhupada was saying, you have so many zeros, they’re worth nothing, but you put a one in front, then they’re of value. So, whatever it is that you know, whatever it is you do, you connect that to Krishna conscious, to Krishna through the philosophy of Krishna consciousness. Then it has value. But before that moment, it has no value.
Right? Why? Because it’s not connected. So Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s point is you can connect anything, but you have to know how to find what is connectable.
Does that make sense?
In verse five, the Lord explains that that the living entities who are exploiting the material elements are His superior energy. As Srila Prabhupada writes in Renunciation Through Wisdom, it is easy to discern the superiority of spirit over inert matter.
The jiva principle is setting into motion and sustaining everything in this world. And if the jivas did not try to lord it over the material nature, then there would be no variegatedness in this phenomenal world. The material elements would have remained unchanged if the jivas had not been inclined to control it and join them. Only through the material energies, only through the material energies connection with the conscious living entity can such substances as earth, wood, stone and iron be orchestrated so as to give rise to huge opulent buildings, factories and cities. Matter cannot organize itself.
Matter just sits there. Man organizes. So, that’s why Krishna later would say that the jiva is sustaining the universe. Because you say, no, Krishna is sustaining. No. Krishna is maintaining and controlling the universe, but the only reason it’s there is because the jivas are sustaining it.
Does that make sense? You know, it’s just like, why does the baby have diapers?
Right? So, the diapers are sustained by the baby. Right? It’s arranged by the parents. When the diaper, when the baby doesn’t need diapers, there are no diapers.
Right? So, when the jiva doesn’t require, then it’s not here. It’s only here because people require it.
Okay? So, it’s easy to see what’s doing what. Material energy is just there. And then, then the jiva manipulates it, creates things. Does that make sense?
Yes. No.
Although superior to inert matter, the living beings remain energy, nonetheless.
They are not to become the energetic, nor the enjoyer, at any level of their spiritual emancipation. Thus, the attempts of the jiva to enjoy matter are never successful because energy cannot enjoy energy, as Srila Prabhupada explains in Renunciation Through Wisdom. The jivas, being a product of the spiritual energy, try to exploit the material energy, but ultimately such attempts fail because it is impossible for one energy to always exploit and lord it over another energy. Because they’re always changing. So, you just… You can’t. The jivas can, however, eternally serve the supreme energetic, Lord Krsna. When the jiva exploits the material energy in its endeavor to serve the Lord, that activity is transcendental.
The performance of sacrifice. Any other kind of activity amounts to nothing but materialistic fruit of work. Right? So, here’s, you know, a key here. Jiva exploits the material energy in its endeavor to serve the Lord. That activity is transcendental. The performance of sacrifice. So, in other words, you’re exploiting the material energy.
Look at… You can look at it from…
You’re engaging according to what you’re interested in, but you’re connecting it to the Lord. So, that’s sacrifice.
Right? So, in this way, then that term, exploit, would work here. Unless, exploit, you’re just taking it, you’re being, you know, engaged, you know, without its necessary approval, since dead matter doesn’t approve anyway. So, there’s no other way of dealing with it but exploitation.
Right? Does that make sense?
Just a question that’s been in my mind for the last some days. So, as we’re going through here, before there were more questions. There was more interaction. Is that because now there’s less because the voices are learning more, so they understand more, so we’re speaking these things and there’s an understanding? Or, it’s a matter of, you know, what we’re speaking is just too esoteric and doesn’t have really any, you know, that? Or, it’s just downright boring? Or, trying to figure out what’s this new mood?
Yes?
If it’s directly in connection with this, then that would be nice. But if it’s going to take it off on a tangent somewhere, like that, then that’s not so important. But if it’s to bring out the understanding of what… In other words, if it’s a question on what’s directly been said, that’s fine. If it’s a question on the example, that’s not so important.
You know? Does that make sense? You know, somebody now starts the whole thing about, you know, whether Pirelli or Michelin is the actual… That’s not important.
Hmm? You know? No, it’s fine. I’m not complaining. I’m just saying it needed the helmet. That’s all. Indeed. You know?
And probably the wool underwear.
Is that okay? So, I mean, any other… How do you say?
Perspectives on this? So, that’s what everybody’s doing. Yes?
Okay.
Okay, so just everybody’s…
That look is reflection rather than… What is this guy talking about?
Okay, but the main thing is, is anybody getting bored?
That’s an important thing. If boredom is setting in, that’s a problem. If it’s contemplation, reflection, everybody knows more. Because I’ve seen that what would take sometimes days to discuss in this kind of open forum when it’s newer people, and someone who’s been around a long time can explain it in five minutes.
So that’s understood, that would happen. Yes?
What is this guy talking about? What we’re doing is the examples will generally be sometimes unique or even bizarre.
That’s just to create the element of consciousness or the wakeful state.
But it’s not actually the point of the discussion.
You know what I’m saying? It’s just a way of dealing. But sometimes then it catches and people catch those things, and we spend a lot of time discussing that, which is not so important. Okay. Yes?
As long as something’s going on, as long as you’re hearing and digesting and it’s meaning something, then it’s fine. But if there is a question that should be asked, one shouldn’t be afraid of it. At the same time, if it’s not, everyone’s falling asleep and it’s not very practical, then that’s another thing.
Okay, so it’s starting to make some more sense. Okay, that’s good. No, it’s just good. I didn’t think it would happen so quickly, but it seems to happen a lot sooner. I thought it would happen much later.
So that’s good. I kind of thought it would happen in the second year, but it seems to be happening halfway through the first, which is good. Which is good.
So you can imagine the fun in the second year.
Okay.
Verses six to seven. Kṛṣṇa introduces Himself as a separate category. Everything that exists in the material world is a product of matter and spirit. Kṛṣṇa is the original cause and the dissolution of both. Besides this, He is the maintainer because everything rests on Him as pearls strung on a thread. When pearls are strung on a thread, we see the pearls and not the thread. Still, the thread exists and holds the pearls together. In the same way, Kṛṣṇa as the creator, the maintainer, and the dissolver is always present, although not seen.
So that’s the importance. Because we can’t perceive it with the senses. We’re so used to this idea of pratyakṣa, that if we can’t see it, then it doesn’t exist. So that’s the importance of śāstra. Could you kindly mention to them that… I’m sure it’s important, but…
So Kṛṣṇa is separate. That’s the important thing. I mean, there’s a place where… There’s a lecture of Prabhupāda describing that Kṛṣṇa is beyond spiritual because spiritual is coming from Him. I mean, the definition of spiritual meaning not material. Yes, that’s there. But as far as the spiritual world, He’s beyond that. He’s the source of it. So it means Kṛṣṇa is something beyond.
Right?
So I guess that’s what they meant when they… In that… They have furniture and all that, and then the beyond part. That’s where you’re supposed to connect it to Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the origin of Paramāma and the Brahmajyoti. There is no truth superior to Kṛṣṇa, as Śrīla Prabhupāda writes in his purport to verse 7. There is a common controversy over whether the Supreme Absolute Truth is personal or impersonal. As far as Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, the Absolute Truth is the Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, and this is confirmed in every step. In this verse in particular, it is stressed that the Absolute Truth is a person. The impersonalist, however, argues on the strength of the Vedic version given in the Svetasvatara Upaniṣad, 3.10. tato yad uttaratam tad ārūpam anāmayam ya e te vidur amṛtas te bhavati athetare duḥkham evāpyanti In the material world, Brahmā, the material living entity within this, the primeval living entity within this universe, is understood to be the supreme amongst the demigods, human beings and lower animals. But beyond Brahmā there is the transcendence, who has no material form and is free from all material contaminations. Anyone who can know Him also becomes transcendental, but those who do not know Him suffer the miseries of the material world. The impersonalist puts more stress on the word ārūpam, but this ārūpam is not impersonal. It indicates the transcendent form of eternity, bliss and knowledge. So, he’s establishing that he’s beyond the Brahmā and that he’s not material. But being not material doesn’t mean that there’s no form. It just means there’s no material form. It means that spiritual is there. In other words, if there is transcendence, like that, so he’s the source of this transcendence. Otherwise, they think that Brahman is there, but then how do you get all this coming out? Where is it explained? They can’t explain it. If everything’s one, where does illusion come from? And from this illusion, how does illusion cover Brahman, which is superior? And then all this happens. If they say pastime, then that indicates personality.
And according to their definition, Brahman, there is no personality. So, why would Brahman want to have a pastime?
So, if there is a pastime, it is person, then that means there’s a person beyond the Brahmacarya.
Does that make sense? So, they’re misapplying this, that there’s transcendence. And it also constantly refers to this he. They miss that point also.
And if one who knows him, so that indicates two, the living entity and the Lord. So, if you know him, but if it’s all one, you just have to know yourself.
But no, you have to know him. So, it indicates that there has to be personal.
Yes?
Question.
Means, yes.
No, it means, in any cases, his plenary expansions are taking care of the material existence. But that doesn’t mean Krishna is not aware, because it’s him. So, he’s aware of everything. Just like, you know, are you aware of the end of your toe? Right? But the point is, you can be absorbed in interaction with someone else and not be specifically aware of your body. Right? But if you want to be, you can be. You know what I’m saying? You’re talking and all this and that’s going on, and then someone will say, oh, you know, something, and then you can become aware. Does that make sense? So, Krishna is absorbed in his pastimes with the devotees, so he’s unaware. But at the same time as, you know, being God, he is aware.
Does that make sense? So, he’s aware of whatever is going on. So, Viswanath points out, one doesn’t have to worry that Krishna is so busy in his pastimes, he doesn’t hear your prayers. That’s the point.
Because that would be the anxiety.
Is that okay? Yes? Earlier in the class, you were mentioning how bhakti follows Vedanta.
Means it’s based on Vedanta. Based on Vedanta. Yes. It’s the words used.
The seriously inquisitive student at this stage, well -equipped in knowledge and detachment, realizes the Absolute Truth by rendering devotional service in terms of what he has heard from the Vedanta Sruti. Right?
Is that okay?
So, my question was, I seem to remember that you mentioned that as the understanding of the Vedanta increases, then the, I forget how you said, but like the inspiration, the enthusiasm to perform devotional service, and the devotion will naturally increase also. Yes. Yes.
There’s some place where it was defined.
One who is expert in logic and argument in the revealed scriptures and who has firm faith, it’s always known as the Tamil. A sincere… Okay. A sincere student should not neglect the discussion of such philosophical conclusions, considering them controversial. For such discussions strengthen the mind, and thus one’s mind becomes attached to Sri Krsna. Because they’re defining. Vedanta means it defines Krsna.
You know, so in other words, this is discussion of Vedanta.
Several Sruti mantras, such as ekam eva… eva…
eva dvitiyam brahma Brahman is one without a second. neha na asti kincana brahma Besides this, nothing exists. sarvam kalviram brahma Everything and everywhere is Brahman, and aham brahmasmi. I am by nature Brahman. Find the perfect explanation in verses six to seven. As Srila Prabhupada writes in Renunciation Through Wisdom, the Supreme Lord endowed with the six transcendental opulences to the absolute degree is the highest governing principle. Thus, no other personality is equal to or greater than He. Lord Krsna confirms His point by saying, There is no truth superior to Me, and then explaining how He is present everywhere and intimately connected with everything through His all-pervasive energies.
Material energy is the result of the transformation of the Lord’s energies. Both the energies and the energetic are inconceivable, and they are simultaneously one and different. Hence the phrase sarvam kalviram brahma, everything is Brahman, in fact declares that everything consists of transformations of the Supreme Lord’s material and spiritual energies. Shakti harinam avad. The transformation of His energies neither increases nor decreases the Supreme Absolute Truth. Hence Brahman is described as changeless. And the inferior energy being only the reflection of Brahman is nirakara, impersonal.
So the material energy is nirakara, it’s impersonal, because it’s just dead matter. That’s where the concept comes from. So the material concept where you’re seeing something without the Lord involved, that’s impersonal. So actually the material consciousness, the material existence, that’s impersonal. Right? But the point is that there’s only transformation.
You take one, it transfers into something else, transfers into something else. So this is harinam avad. So it’s not an illusion, it just transforms. And because it just transforms, it doesn’t lose the quality that it has. So that means Brahman is changeless. It’s made of Brahman, it remains Brahman.
Transformation doesn’t mean it switches from Brahman to illusion, that’s vivartabhadra. That’s what the Mayavadis say. They say vivartabhadra is that it’s illusion, that what’s here is illusion, it doesn’t exist. That there’s only Brahman. But we’re saying the same thing. Yes, there’s only Brahman, but Brahman transforms, that’s vivartabhadra. But it’s still the same Brahman. So Brahman is changeless.
Does that make sense?
Quite a good variety show today.
A little Bengali tete-a-tete, and now we’ve got a little musical exposition.
Verses 8 to 14. The fun part is if you’re in a grass house, you don’t even notice this.
But in these buildings, you know what floor it is on. Sometimes you hear this and they’re on the roof, so they’re plenty far enough away, but somehow these buildings echo. That’s why these are not actually very ideal for kids, at least the boys. The grass absorbs it. It’s like acoustically dead. So someone could be in the back over there playing Madanga and we could have class, it wouldn’t bother us. It just doesn’t, somehow they’re very different.
In verses 8 to 11, the Lord explains how everything is strung on Him. The Lord gives examples as to how we can remember Him while working in the material world. In this way, the Lord helps us attain the stage of maya-sakta-mana, the mind attached to Krsna. Bhagavad-gita 7.1. Krsna is the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras, the sound in ether and the ability in man, the original fragrance of the earth, heat and fire, life in all existence, the intelligence of the intelligent, the prowess of all powerful men, the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire, sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, and the taste of water.
Krsna 3. Here’s from a lecture in Gita, Stockholm. A note on that. Krsna is even the taste of the wine. I am the taste of any liquid that attracts you. Even if you are a drunkard and fond of wine, I should recommend that you simply think that this taste of wine is Krsna. That will make a yogi of you. That will make you the greatest yogi. Simply repeat, I am tasting wine. Oh, very nice taste. This is Krsna. Isn’t that easy? This is Krsna consciousness.
And we may laugh, but I either met a devotee who used this on one of the drunkards, or I actually met the devotee it was used on. And forget what it was. Ten days or something, they became a devotee.
So it’s not an excuse. But the point is because you’re looking for Krsna. So if you’re appreciating this Krsna, then you’re going to appreciate. Because all these things, the point to note in them is the essential point. The light of the sun and the moon. What are you appreciating about the sun? The light. The moon, the light. So the light, that’s Krsna. You like the sun and moon, but what you like about it is the light, and that’s Krsna.
So we’re appreciating Krsna. But we think it’s the sun and the moon. Yes? I have a question. I’m trying to find a balance, a scale that Krsna doesn’t become contaminated on one side. No, but He’s the principle, what you’re looking for. He’s not the material cause. It means His energy, it’s a separated energy. So it’s working through there, but it’s still His energy. But what makes the energy work is still Him. It’s just like this. The machine is being run by the electricity. Does the electricity become contaminated?
No. The energy is separate. The potency is separate.
Does that make sense? But this manifestation of it, that’s powered by Krsna’s energies. What about this last point about bringing in the concept of Krsna into something like wine, which is considered very pure. But the point is, what are you looking for? How does dead matter, how does a bunch of rotten grapes attract the attention?
Right? It’s because of Krsna’s potency.
So they think it’s the wine, but it’s actually it’s Krsna that they’re attracted to. That’s the point. Whatever it is in this world that you’re attracted to, it’s actually Krsna. Right? So we’ve discussed this before on how Krsna and His potencies and how they work. So on the Brahman level, or working with the Paramahamsa here, He’s bringing in now the Bhagavan aspect. So we’re seeing this. He’s given this before. But seeing this in connection with Him as a person. So the point is, it’s His potency that makes any liquid appreciated.
You know what I’m saying? Because one person tastes something and says, this is nice. Another person tastes, oh, this is terrible.
So one person’s drinking this wheatgrass juice, and he’s thinking, wow, this is so nice. Another one’s thinking, what’s this?
You understand? So it’s Krsna. It’s not the wheatgrass.
Does that example work better for you?
Because see, why these have a problem, they’re very rarely brought up. You’ll see this one time here. Because the point is made, but it’s not regularly brought up. Otherwise, then we take it that, you know, this is okay. No. He’s trying to point out someone who’s so sinful and attached to these, he can even find Krsna in there. The Vedantas, it means if we say Krsna is everything, we mean it. You know what I’m saying? So the point is, is you see that, and you contemplate that. Because to be a yogi doesn’t mean, oh, it means, you saw yesterday. Today he’s drinking the wine, but not thinking of Krsna. But yesterday he did. He’s not a yogi today. You’re a yogi when you’re thinking of that. And if you keep thinking of that, then that brings you to Krsna. Right? So now in the association of devotees, you hear this. Why did he, why is he, he’s heard this from devotees. So he associates, but he starts to hear. Then he starts to see. And then, slowly, slowly, these things will be given up.
Does that make sense? So that, that’s the point. Yes?
Yes, that’s why you have to be careful of these. Because when you’re dealing on this Brahman level and all these different things, you have to be very careful, otherwise they can be misused. The point is, is it’s only when it’s understood, the knowledge by Vedanta, then you’re connected. Otherwise, then, you know, you’re like the, the people who say, well, the Vedas say animal sacrifice is all right, so Buddha has to come and say, okay, don’t follow the Vedas. So if you’re going to take this and misapply it, then, you know, don’t bother with this one. You know, the Shastras also say no intoxication.
You know, we’re talking about someone who’s not following the Shastras, below that standard. You know, so we can’t say, oh, it’s all right to follow, no, because standard is, one doesn’t take alcohol. Right? Brahmins don’t use alcohol. You know? Does that, does that make sense? So, therefore, that’s just the standard. So if you are, that means you’re below that. So first of all, acknowledge, you know, that you’re, you know, something, you know, the, you know, the garbage in the gutter and you are basically not different. So as long as you acknowledge that, then, then we can start talking. But don’t go saying, no, no, but I’m doing this and I’m on the same platform as the guy who’s, you know, doing puja all day. That doesn’t fly.
You know what I’m saying? Because the point is, as I said before, with sufficient knowledge and detachment. Right? That’s what Mahatma Gandhi was saying.
Where was I? Was it the one before?
Yeah.
Bhagavatam 1.2.12 The serious inquisitive student of the sage well equipped with knowledge and detachment realizes that absolute truth by remembering devotional service in terms of what he has heard from the Vedanta Sruti. So he has some knowledge and there’s a discretion and some detachment that he understands that it’s, it’s God. So therefore, he has to respect that taste. Right? So then that bring, that little bit will power it. And then they’ll get more. We’ll stop here because we’re over. But then we’ll continue with this tomorrow. Not tomorrow. Monday.
We might, Upadesa Meena’s finishing today. Because Upadesa Meena will finish today. That’s 11. Huh? It’s already finished. 11 to 12. What’s the time? So we’re thinking that possibly for Monday, since we’re a little bit slower on the Gita, that we might use that period for the Gita also.
Huh?
The fourth period in the, means this is two periods. Then you have 10 to 11, 11 to 12. So we might also add in 11 to 12 just so that it moves more.
If people are comfortable with that.
Okay, he’s comfortable with it.
Anybody else? I mean, the point, I’m working on the principle that you were coming anyway for the Upadesa Amrita. So if you’re coming for Upadesa Amrita and that’s replaced by Gita, it shouldn’t be a problem. If you’re not coming to Upadesa Amrita, that’s more of a problem.
There’s only like seven of us that come.
For Upadesa Amrita and for Nectar Devotion? Oh, same. Same would come for both. Okay. So I take it everyone here does not go to the 10 to 12 classes.
So, because, I mean, I’m not sure what else to do. Otherwise we have to run somehow or another into the, we may have to run into the festival time.
Some response would be good.
Yes? No? Maybe yes. So the ones who are coming then are very enthusiastic.
Maybe.
Not necessarily.
Problem is it just goes into the day. That’s why previously we always, we were always doing less periods in the early, so it would fit in. But then the problem is there’s always a problem with the temple program. Then we put it, so it goes through the day, you can get more done. But then the difficulty comes up is then, you know, then it interferes with life.
Okay. Okay.
