Apasampradāyas #7

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So, today we are going to start with the Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras, Shastras.

Did we finish these ones? We are on page 17.

These are new pages. Oh, I see. OK.

OK. Chapter 15. Everyone gets a mother and father at the time of birth. But the real father and mother are they who can release their offspring from the clutches of imminent death. This is possible only for parents advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore, any parents who cannot enlighten their offspring in Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be accepted as a real mother and father. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-antya-līlā 13.113. Purport. So, the idea is that because this is the duty, means this is the position of guru, to save one from being involved in the material world. So, therefore, real parents are ones who can do that. So, that’s why the Shastra says don’t become a parent, don’t become a guru, don’t become a teacher, don’t become a demigod or a king if you can’t do that. That’s the position. So, people are doing it anyway, but then they’re not considered real parents. Yes, of course, they’re biological parents, that you’re not going to deny. But the point is that once they’ve been born, then what?

Because the other means you’re looking at nine months worth of effort. But then after that, then you have the rest of your life. So, what are you going to do with it? So, that’s what’s considered important. So, that’s why then someone who’s an actual guru, that’s more important than someone who’s not. But at the same time, respect is given because, you know, for the position. But the point that they’re giving here is that just by birth, that doesn’t make you automatically a guru, right? Because that’s the idea, the caste Goswamis and that. Is that because you’re born in the Brahmin family, you’re automatically advanced. Not even a Brahmin, a Goswami family, you’re born basically in Uttamaduka. You’re born a guru, right? Does that make sense? So, they’re showing from these verses that that’s not the case. You actually have to be qualified. That makes you a guru. Does that make sense? Yes. Do you know if you’re qualified or does somebody have to tell you where to be? Well, it means the point is what’s your effort? You know, why are you involved in this job?

Well, just having that desire and putting in the endeavor doesn’t make you qualified. No, no, but what’s the purpose of your endeavor? To please Krishna. Yes. And how are you going to please Krishna?

By attempting to please Krishna. Okay, and then what’s the form of the attempt that you’ll make?

Means you’ll make it up yourself or you’ll follow authorities? Yes. Yes, so therefore that’s bona fide. You’re doing your best because you’re fixed. You know, as long as you’re fixed in that, that’s how you always do things, then it’ll work out. You know what I’m saying? But you have to be aware of what you’re doing. See, much of the time is, that’s the intent of the parent when they’re being Krishna conscious. You know, in their reflective moment, then they’ll think, this is what I want to do. But in actuality, they’re just interacting with the children because they’re parents, that’s all. It has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness. So that’s where it’s going to be weak, though their intent is correct. So then if you show them how to do it properly, then there’s every chance that they’ll be able to take it up and apply it. Does that make sense? But if they just think, because I’m a devotee, and so anything I do is devotional, so therefore I’m a parent, so it’s automatically devotional, there you’ll have a problem. Yes. Right? Then that’s going to be a difficulty.

So that’s the whole idea of the Goswamis, because I’m a devotee, so automatically my child’s a devotee, so whatever I do is devotional, so automatically whatever my kids do is devotional. I remember one place we were walking by, and there was some group of devotees, and this little kid comes walking out of the restaurant or something, and he comes out, and I forget what he did, but he did something, specifically insulting, he behaved in an insulting way directed at those devotees. It wasn’t that he just came out, and being a kid, he just bumped into them, and they got insulted. No, he actually came out and said all kinds of things to them. He might have even thrown some shot at them. Like that.

I’m not sure, I can’t remember if the guy was Australian or not. I kind of remember he was, but whatever.

And then the devotees are shocked, and then the mother comes out, and just goes, oh, isn’t he so cute, and just took him away. But it wasn’t like, you don’t do this, or that’s incorrect, or these are Vaishnavs, you can’t behave like that. It’s just that he’s a little kid, they do stupid stuff, and so everybody’s got to tolerate, rather than trying to train them in what’s the standard. You know what I’m saying? You train, and they don’t do, that’s what kids mean. You know, your kid means, you tell them a million times, and then maybe on million and one, they do it. But the point is, here, there wasn’t even the idea. No, it’s just that they’re devotees, so therefore it’s wonderful, and they’re kids, so it’s cute. So everything’s fine. Does that make sense? There’s not even the attempt.

One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaishnava. As Narottam das Thakur has confirmed, One cannot be in a transcendental position unless one very faithfully serves the pure Vaishnava. One must accept a Vaishnava guru, and then, by questions and answers, one should gradually learn what pure devotional service to Krishna is. That is called the parampara system.

Okay, so now this is where, no, it’s okay. Here, the point being is that simply on your own, even you’re coming in contact with the Acharyas through their works, that doesn’t mean you’ll actually understand what’s devotional service. Right? That’s why you have to deal with those who are actually around. Right? You have to actually get the association of Vaishnavas, hear from them, because they’re going to apply, they’re going to compare what you’re reading to what you’re doing. Right? The book’s not going to do that.

Does that make sense? Right? So, not that the book isn’t perfect, but the point is that the book arranges for association.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So, this is the idea, is that you are studying the books of the Acharyas, but at the same time, what’s associating with Vaishnavas, who are therefore, you’re able to ask questions and everything about, and then practically apply it. Does that make sense? So, both things have to be there. Does that make sense? Yeah? So now, what we’re going to look at is how we don’t apply this. We don’t apply this, that therefore, simply by reading books, you can’t get anything. So therefore, if the guru’s not present, he’s only present in the form of his books, you have no connection to him. The siksha has no real meaning. That one, we’re going to avoid, because then that one means you’re not actually directly associating. The point is, as you read Prabhupada’s books, you’re directly associating with Prabhupada. And if it’s Nectar of Devotion, then it’s Prabhupada and Rupa Goswami. Or if it’s Bhagavad Gita, it’s Prabhupada, Krishna, and Arjuna. Right? And then there’s the comments and the purports by the Visvanath and Balade. So you’re associating with all of them. But the point is, is you’re not… How are you able to go and see what you’re doing is correct?

How do you ask your questions? So that you have to do with someone who’s present. So you have to have both. So this idea is this or that. No, it’s always both. And Rupa Goswami says, approach the previous Acharyas through one’s Acharya.

Does that make sense? So the point is, is the Acharya gives the instructions, so that’s how you’re going to understand the previous Acharya. And you’re going to understand what the Acharya says by the association of Vaishnas.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So one always has to have all these elements. Because that’s always going to be there. Radharani is there. She is devotional service. Everybody else is assisting. Then there’s the ones that are giving the directions what to do. Then there’s the person that’s specifically telling you what to do. That’s why Das, Anu, Das, Anu, Das. Right? The Das, the spiritual master. Anu Das, the previous Acharya is. Anu Das, Radharani.

Does that make sense?

So that’s how it’s always going to function. So it all goes together. So we don’t take it that this means that, oh, if you’re listening, you know, to an audio, it’s not actually spiritual, it only represents the spiritual. Don’t take that from this.

Because then the problem is, you’ll never understand what is siksha and what is personal association.

Okay. A real Brahmin is never envious of a Vaishnava. If he is, he is considered an imperfect neophyte.

Chaitanya Chaturmida, Madhya Lila, 15277, purport. So a real Brahmin, a Brahmin might be. And they can be accepted as a Brahmin because the point is, is they have the good qualities, they function in goodness, they do the duties, they’re clean, they follow the shastra, they follow authority. So they are Brahmins. Right? But when we say real Brahmin, then that means someone who understands Vaishnavas.

Because Brahmin is on the material platform. You know? That’s where Brahmin is. Now, Vaishnava means Brahmin on the transcendental platform. Right? Does that make sense? So here is that he’s an imperfect neophyte, means he’s a Brahmin, so he’s accepting the shastra, so in that way they’re devotees. You know? Because we’re talking here, we’re relating it to the caste gospel. But imperfect neophyte. Because they’re not even properly situated. Because unless you accept the Vaishnavas, how does anything else work? It’s from the Vaishnavas that Shraddha comes. It’s from the Vaishnavas that the faith cultivates. It’s from the Vaishnavas that the process is practiced. Does it make sense? Yes. You know how your wife’s saying that humility is something that is given automatically by the mercy of Krishna, it’s not something that can be separately endeavoured for? It means, as a devotee, it means, let’s say you have some smarta brahmanas. Okay? So the point when we say smarta brahmanas, the problem is not the brahmana part, the problem is the smarta part. You know? Does that make sense? That’s just like political correctness. Correctness is not wrong. Political’s the problem. You understand? So smarta brahmana, brahmana’s not the part that they’re doing brahminical activities, the problem is the smarta aspect. Because smarta means they’re just following the rules, and they think by following the rules everything’s perfect. Rather than the attitude in which you’re doing it that is being done to please the Supreme Lord. That’s where the problem is. That smarta aspect. Does that make sense? So, for a smarta, because he is, why would he be born a smarta? Right? Why would he be born a brahmana? Let’s take a general case. Okay, general case is, you’re not born in a brahman family unless you have some good qualities. Right? They have faith in the Vedas, they have faith in the authority in that light, in those practices, respect for all that kind of culture and cleanliness, all these different things. That’s why they have the piety that they’re born in that family. Okay? So they have good qualities. So now, they don’t have any alternative but to cultivate humility just by, means, by the process. You know what I’m saying? Because they don’t have devotional service. Right? So what are they doing? They’re following, it’s not that they do something separate than their duty. They don’t go out and lay in the middle of the road and this is, I’m being humbled. Right? It’s the performance of their brahmanical duties that you have to be humble to do that. Because they go door to door begging and stuff like that. You have to be humble.

Does that make sense? Okay, go ahead. If envy fits into that same thing… No, envy is something separate. Envy is just a lack of good qualities in that area. That’s just a bad quality. But to have the quality of lack of envy, is that, does that come by devotional service? Or is it something you can separate? It means you can separately, it means, here the point, the problem is, is to separately cultivate is, why we bring that up is that when we say separately cultivate, we make up our own process to learn it. That’s why we say one doesn’t separately cultivate. Okay. Because even someone in the Varnashram system never separately cultivated. They only do it through the performance of their duties. Right? What their duties are supposed to do. Like a Kshatriya doesn’t go out begging. So he doesn’t cultivate humility there. Does that make sense? He cultivates humility because he has his council of Brahmas, he has the Rajguru, he’s humble before them. But when he sits in his court, you don’t see humility. You know what I’m saying? So he has his place to cultivate it.

Does that make sense? So that’s how it functions. So therefore the Vaishnava, the same principle, the Vaishnavi performs his devotional activities. In the devotional activities, as the need for humility comes up, he cultivates it there. He doesn’t separately cultivate it. So no one separately cultivates. But the tendency is that, oh, I have to become humble. So you make up a process to cultivate humility. Rather than just perform your duties, you have to be humble to do your duties. So that’s why we’re saying you don’t have to separately cultivate. It’s automatically included in devotional process. It’s not, oh, I just chant Hare Krishna. You know, it’s like, you know, and then somebody comes up and starts, hey, don’t you see I’m chanting here? No. That’s where you’re supposed to cultivate the humility. Because you’re doing devotional service. That’s the point.

It means, in other words, the Brahmin sees the Vaishnava, and he becomes envious. Then he thinks, no, that’s not proper, because they’re also, you know, the better Vaishnavi, the better Brahmin. So then he tries to get rid of that. Devotees will deal with that anyway. Devotees are doing so many things, you get jealous or envious, and then you think this is not good. So then you try to control that. But it comes up in the natural performance of duties. It means you’re at the arti. And so then, you know, you dress the deities, okay? And then it’s a festival day, and somebody else dressed the deities. So you’re standing there taking darshan, like you always do. And then you hear other devotees talk about, wow, so nice dressing and all that. Yeah, so much better than on the other days. And you’re the guy who dresses on the other days. So then you become envious. You know, what’s this? You know, I’m also there. So then you have to think, no, we’re all doing this for Krishna. Krishna’s given special mercy that he’s dressed so nicely at the Vaishnavas. Appreciate her. You understand? So it just naturally comes in the performance of your duties.

You know, you don’t have to like, you know, ride the bus from the front gate to Krishnagar like ten times a day to cultivate humility, tolerance, you know. You understand? It’s not like, you know. It would be effective, though. Well, it might be. It just depends how it ends up. It could end up as a riot, you know, with the bus being burnt, and you know, the whole thing. I don’t know. Yeah, so it’s like that. Yeah. How about something like Dandavat Parikrama, Govardhan Hill, or Radha Kunal? Because you’re looking at it as sadhana. If you’re looking at, I’m doing Dandavat Parikrama to develop humility, then it’s like, isn’t that a waste? It means developing humility is nice. Right? But let’s say we have, you know, a street sweeper. If he’s going to function nicely in the society, he has to be humble. Right? And he’s getting that from sweeping the street and not being necessarily Krishna conscious at all. Right? So if that’s all you want to get from going around Govardhan Hill, isn’t that a bit of a waste? From Govardhan Hill, you can get love of God. Why would you switch love of God for being humble? You understand? In other words, your intent is develop love for Krishna. And by doing it, you naturally become humble. That’s what we’re saying. These good qualities are a byproduct. They’re not the endeavor.

Right? It means we talk about it like you have to develop this and that, but that means then you should be aware, not that it’s separate. It means you’re not being humble, therefore you should be aware. You know, hey, don’t be so much attitude. You’re going around Govardhan Hill, so don’t sit there and yell and scream at the cars because, you know, I’m doing Parikram here. You know, stuff like that. You do that in New York. You don’t do that around Govardhan. Right? You know, I wouldn’t recommend Parikram, but, I don’t know, where would you do Parikram? I’m done about that. I’m tired of swearing. Central Park. Central Park.

The Bronx. No, that I wouldn’t recommend. I wouldn’t recommend even going there.

Something like that. Is that what you said? Yes. Amarashi, would it be fair to say that if you want to cultivate humility, then you can choose those services which require humility to do? For example, pot washing. No, but is it your service? Is that what you should be doing?

You know what I’m saying? You could manage the temple or wash the pots. Why would you choose washing the pots? Managing the temple, there’s plenty of opportunity to be humble. Washing the pots. How many people are going to tell you you’re doing a bad job? Not many. Like, maybe one of the fanatic cooks who goes, every time I’ve got to re-wash this pot. Like that. How many people tell the temple president he’s not doing a good job? So, where’s the better opportunity to become humble? But we’ll take it. No, it’s a prestigious position, and this and that. Is it?

Who gets the prestige? Everyone’s talking about prestige. Where is it?

You know what I’m saying?

You know what I’m saying? It’s within everybody’s mind that it’s prestigious.

But where is the prestige?

Yes, yes. Regarding humility, when one is doing discrimination for the buddhists who are following, and is discrimination for the buddhists who are not following.

And, for example, when one is doing correction for somebody who is not following properly the instruction. But is it his duty?

In other words, is it your duty to be correcting?

It means, of course, you have self-proclaimed generals of, you know, making sure everything in the planet goes nicely. You know, does that make sense? Generally, most governments don’t take too kindly to such groups. But they’re very convinced, and think they have the right to do whatever they want. But the point is, is it your duty?

You know what I’m saying? Is the person dependent upon you? If he is, it’s your duty to correct him. If he’s not, it’s not your duty.

And even if you think, okay, there’s somebody there, and, you know, they’re kind of like a friend, then I could say something. But it’s still, you’re not in the position of correction. You’re there to assist as a friend. So, therefore, the attitude has to be that, nice. And then if they take it, great. And if they don’t, just the relationship goes on, just this friendship. They’re not taking that from you. But if we think, no, he can’t be my friend. I told him he didn’t listen. But where is friendship? Where is the senior and junior in friendship? It’s equals. So you can’t just take that, because that’s why I keep saying it’s your duty. If it’s your duty, then you’re done. Like the king, he is to correct his associates.

You know, who’s working with him. The ministers, the people in the community, everybody, things like that. At the same time, he also has a thing of being respectful towards his ministers.

And respectful to the individual service rendered by individual citizens.

Right? He’s the king, and the person’s a common citizen. But the point is, is he doing his duties? If he is, that has to be respected by the king. If he’s not, then that’s a breach. And then, therefore, then he’s chastised.

So one has to understand the culture. We have our own, we make up our culture. That’s the main problem, is that devotees have difficulty with, you know, quote unquote, culture, because they make it up. They make up what is the culture. They don’t actually follow the tradition.

Because the tradition is there because this is what works.

Just because we don’t understand it, doesn’t mean we don’t do it. See, it’s like this. I don’t understand it, I do it. Because I don’t understand it, and I think that’s a problem, I inquire and find out. Then I’m following it using proper intelligence. But it’s not that. The other side, if I don’t understand, until I understand it, I won’t do it. We’re eating, but we don’t understand how it nourishes the body, but we’re eating anyway.

You know, how many people know that by sleeping it actually is good for the intelligence? Intelligence is a part, I mean, sleep is one of the functions of the intelligence, like memory, or gratefulness. These are functions of intelligence. How many people know that? But a lot of people are sleeping. You know what I’m saying? So, therefore, the point is, you do what is the recommendation, but you use your intelligence to inquire and find out why I should be doing this. What’s the importance? Because if you know, you continue. So, Niyamagraha you have, I do it and that’s enough. I don’t have to find out why. That’s always going to be a weakness. Maybe it’s good enough for you, but it’s not good enough for anybody else. Right? Your children won’t follow, your friends may not follow, people you meet may not follow, but you may follow. So you may get some benefit, but other than that, it’s not how much benefit you’ll get. You don’t actually know why you’re doing it. And then the other person who won’t do it because he doesn’t understand it. That’s fine as long as they don’t do anything they don’t understand. But why is it always I don’t understand the Vedic, I don’t do it, but I don’t understand the modern, I do it. Why shake hands? Where did that come from?

You know? You’re getting that close to somebody. Okay? I mean, just let’s look at it. This may or may not be the thing, but let’s look at it. You go back in history, you go back basically, yeah, you could go back even less than a hundred years, and there were no laws that you don’t carry a weapon. Most people carried weapons. You had a gun, you had a knife, you had a sword, you had something.

Right? Now, if I hold out my hand to shake, is there anything in my hand? It means if I hand out my hand with a gun in it, you know, then naturally it’s going to, you know, there’s nothing in my hand. My hand’s out, you can grab it, you can pull on it.

You know? Does that make sense? And because the sword’s kept on the left, how do you grab your sword with your left hand?

So, it’s a safe position to greet somebody.

Right? The Japanese, when they would respect, they don’t shake, they don’t hold their hand out, they don’t shake. They take their sword, pull it out partially, and go down one knee at a time, and watching the whole time, and then just bow, and then again look up, and then reverse the process. And from that position down, they can pull their sword and fight.

That’s how they would respect.

You know what I’m saying? So, the point is, as people are doing stuff, they don’t even know, why say hi? What does hi got to do anything with it? You know? Hi.

You know? They say, why?

But people do it happily, but if it’s Vedic, oh, I don’t understand it, why do we have to do this? But everything modern, we do it, you know?

You know what I’m saying? You go out in a taxi, hey, taxi, you know, but during World War II, a whole country used to do that, and they got in trouble for it.

You know what I’m saying? And it’s called hailing a taxi, but if you hail Hitler, it’s a problem. Taxis are okay. You know, like that. So, he’s always saying, why, you know, the things are, they’re inconsistent.

You know? Oh, we eat with our fingers, that’s so disgusting. But in proper cultured society in the West, asparagus is eaten with your fingers. Crackers are eaten with your fingers. You know, scones are eaten with your fingers. You know what I’m saying? And these are, you know, things that are done in high society. So, they are food you eat with your fingers. So, the idea of just writing off, we don’t eat with our fingers. Therefore, devotees, many times they eat with a spoon, will eat things that even in the West, a cultured person wouldn’t eat with a spoon. They would use their fingers, but no, they’ll use a spoon because it’s not proper. You know, it’s uncultured. You know what I’m saying? They just make up culture. That’s the problem. So, in a way, neither are they following the Western tradition and neither are they following the Vedic. Because in the Western tradition, if you talk about culture, you don’t sit and yell and scream at anybody. You don’t like them. You just very pleasantly and very nice words, and the bigger the words, the better. You tell them, you know, what a rat bag they are. You know? Like I said, you know, it’s like that, you know, like that, you know, you’re after our country, you know, we’re going to stop you at all costs, you know, we’re going to finish you. I’m looking forward to it. You know, like that. Okay, so, you know, see you later. You know, like that. That’s culture.

You know what I’m saying? Sitting there and yelling and screaming and this and that, you know, that’s the guys, you know, they put them on a boat from Cuba, they send them over like that, and then they come to the country, and then, you know, you think that it’s just people who want to come, but no, they send all the criminals. And that guy starts a business. He does that.

You understand? That’s where that comes from.

And then that’s considered, you know, that’s, you know, but that’s not culture.

So the point is this, culture is culture. You follow your duties, you have to, I mean, just think what you have to do. You’d like to yell and scream, but you don’t. That takes self-control.

So that means to follow your duty. You have to be self-controlled. You have to be humble. You have to be tolerant. It’s just what duties do. All the good qualities are cultivated by doing your duty.

You understand? So we create duties that don’t require that. You’re supposed to yell and scream, but at least then you’re following authority, you know? So I’m walking down the street and the guy on the other side of the street, you know, he’s got different tattoos than us, and he starts saying all kinds of things like that, because, you know, I’m alone, that’s one thing you say something. But, you know, I’m with the boss, so I have to yell and scream because I have to, you know, show respect for the boss. So I’m following a duty.

You understand? So the point is this, it’s not analyzed nicely. It’s that any time you create a form, then it has to develop good qualities.

How much tolerance is there that you wear a pair of pants for a year and never wash them?

Now we’re talking blue jeans here. Right? But that’s the rule of the club. So out of respect for authority, you’re doing that. Okay. Maybe cleanliness is not cultivated. Right? But respect for authority, trying to be part of the group, that team, all those qualities are cultivated. In the mode of ignorance, but cultivated.

Does that make sense? So that’s the whole idea, is that the structure of society is designed to develop good qualities. Now the question is, do we follow the authorities, or do we just make it up?

That means, I’ve heard about it, someone told me that they read, one of the Puranas was making a point, that let’s say somebody makes up a bogus, you know, thing, cultural or philosophical or anything. Then by doing that, they get reaction to that, because it’s bogus. But at the same time, they also get a reaction for not following it. Because they’ve said, no, this is what we do. So Paramatma is there and saying, okay, you said that’s what you’re supposed to do. Now you have to do it.

Right? And if you don’t, then you get in trouble for not doing your own bogus nonsense.

Does that make sense?

You know, so that’s the whole thing.

So it’s, the whole idea is that duties are there to uplift one. Now the point is that’s why the Vedic duties are considered superior, because they’re in the mode of goodness, they’re meant to uplift one in a holistic way. Everyone loves these holistic and sustainable, and this, Vedic’s the only thing that is. You know what I’m saying? Means, India has, you know, India and China have the oldest living cultures on the planet. Right? So it means people are still doing now what, you know, in recorded history, you know, 5000 years, that they were doing then. Same values, same philosophy, same religion, same that. Nobody else has that. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? You go to any other culture, and every, you know, so many hundreds of years, they completely change. It’s not the same anymore.

But it’s the same. So, therefore, it’s been working. It worked 5000, it’s working today. So, what is the problem? Same thing is, because they’re good. They’re based on the scripture.

Does that make sense?

So, the idea is that if you follow your duties, then so many benefits are there. You know what you’re supposed to do, and you have to cultivate all these good qualities to do it. And that’s the nice medium to serve Krishna with. So even if you don’t know what you’re doing, you don’t have some Vedic alternative, then follow what’s the cultured Western thing. Not the uncultured Western thing.

Right? If I wear a suit, I can walk up to anybody, and they won’t be worried. Like, let’s say, let’s say a bunch of, of, you know, punks or something are sitting on the side of the road. I’m wearing a suit. I can walk up to them. They’re not afraid. They may think I’m weird, but they’re not afraid. You understand? But, if you have a bunch of suits sitting there, and I walk up dressed as a punk, they may be worried.

So the gentleman aspect is universal.

So, that’s the point, is that these, these things are there for upliftment.

Right? But, they may not know how to do it, or it’s not scientific. Like, people say, oh, you shouldn’t steal. Do they know that the only reason it says they don’t steal? In the West, it’s because that, basically in the modern context, it goes back to the Ten Commandments. So, it comes from religion. So, all the things that they say people should do come from religion.

But, they don’t connect it. They think that people will not steal, you know, just because they’re supposed to be nice. But, why be nice? What’s the point? What is the point? What’s the reason to be nice?

You know? Why, according to Western, Western philosophy, I should be nice.

How many people could answer that?

That’s there, but then it’s economics. So, at least then, you have it there. You know where your conscience is, so it’s economics. I’m nice, so be nice to me. At least there’s a better chance. You know? At the same time, they have to be clever, because they might not be nice, so I shouldn’t get, I shouldn’t be sentimental and get affected by it. You know? In other words, I’m nice, but I’m prepared for if they’re not nice. Like that. So, then it’s there. But, the point is this, where does artha come from? It comes from dharma. So, they don’t know that actually for the artha to be good, it has to follow dharma. So, they only follow how much gives an immediate result, but what about long-term result? So, therefore, am I really nice to them? I’m only nice in the business. Everybody’s got the crocodile grins, and everybody’s saying all the right things and the right mood, but everybody knows it’s bogus, but this is what you do. This is the etiquette. So, it’s not that when that businessman, let’s say, in the future has some difficulty, he comes to you. But, if you’re actually nice, based on dharma, because this is your duty, or even better yet, because of the nature of Krishna consciousness, their soul and their servant of Krishna, then they will come, because it’s higher.

Does that make sense? Yeah.

You okay? Yeah. Yeah. The reason I was asking those questions before is because sometimes the devotees say, like, you know, even in class, the speaker’s always going about, oh, you’ve got to be humble, you can’t be envious and brave, and you’ve got to do this. But, if it’s by Krishna’s mercy and by, through time, by cultivating and doing devotional service, then you can’t really help it. I mean, if you’re going to desire it… Yes, but that’s the point, is that you have to desire it. Yeah, but if that’s there, then it’s just a matter of time. Like, you can’t really do anything about it. The point is, you have to be consistently desiring it. If, let’s say, the kid is saying, oh, I’m hungry. And then, after five minutes, the mom goes, so, what do you want to eat? No, I’m not hungry. It’s okay. You know? Okay. You know, goes back, doing other things, and ten minutes later, oh, mommy, I’m hungry. You know? It keeps going back and forth. How serious do you take it? The point is, is they’re always hungry. You know? You notice them, you know, chewing on your ankle. You know? And, you know, it’s like, you know. That’s between you and Krishna. Yes. Like, the other parties can’t have a problem with you but not having… No, because the point is, is Krishna has a problem if you’re not humble with the devotees. Yeah, that’s fine. So, it still can go back to you and Krishna because the point is, is Krishna doesn’t appreciate if you’re not humble with the devotees. Okay, but what I’m saying is that devotees can’t be, you’ve got to be humble. Yes, but the point is, is, no, that and other things do it now, but the point is, is where are you going to apply this humility?

In listening to them say that over and over. No. Okay. That’s one thing. But where are you practically going to apply it? By associating with devotees. But what are the opportunities to practice it? As you mentioned earlier. Yes, so it’s only in your duties. So, in other words, you’re performing your duties, you’re not humble. Be aware that humility is an important part of performance of your duties. That’s where you can practice it. Okay. So, when we say you practice it, we’re saying not separately from that. Yeah.

But then is it a matter of time from then? Everything’s a matter of time. We say sit down and eat lunch. It’s still a matter of time before you’ve actually eaten it. It’s not happening in the first nanosecond, unless, you know, you’re Garfield or something. You know. Does that make sense? Yes. Other than that, then it takes time. Yes. There’s no point in sitting around the table going, where’s the lunch, where’s the lunch, hurry up, hurry up. Lunch is going to come when it comes. For yourself, yes. If you’re in charge and all the other devotees are sitting there, then you’re supposed to say where’s the lunch because otherwise the people who are supposed to be arranging the lunch won’t take it seriously. But maybe you should be praying to Krishna for the lunch, no? The general devotee, yes, should be praying to Krishna, but the guy in charge, it’s his business to make sure the lunch is on time.

You understand? It’s a combination of the right attitude and the right endeavor. It’s not just about endeavor only, no attitude, or attitude and no endeavor.

It’s that combination. So this thing is just have faith, you know, and that’s all. It’s kind of like, and we say that, just have faith in Prabhupada. If you have faith in Prabhupada, Prabhupada will save you. You know? Of course, within that we should get out some guitars and stuff like that. Does that make sense? Is that enough? No, you need a campfire as well. That’s true. That’s true. I don’t know if they’re cultured enough to have potatoes though. Do they have potatoes? Marshmallows. Marshmallows, that they might get. Does that make sense? So the point is, is that it’s following Prabhupada’s instructions that’s important. So you have that faith and follow the instructions. So you have that faith that it’s important to be humble and tolerant and respectful. So therefore, I try to do that in my endeavor. Now you may be successful or not. But the point is, is then the next time you try again. And then with time it will happen. So therefore, we’re not impatient, but at the same time we’re determined. Okay, so by your endeavor, patience and determination, and in the end, by Krishna’s mercy, over time. No, it’s your desire and willingness to apply those and then you’re able to apply them by Krishna’s mercy. Yes. If somebody’s humble, that’s Krishna’s quality of humility. Why do they have it? Because they’ve qualified themselves for it. So are you saying that the pressure put by other devotees that are supposed to be doing that is for the purpose of making, like you want to desire it more? That’s the point. But wouldn’t inspiration be a better, a more effective way to do that? It’s like this. You take whatever you can get.

You understand? If you’re hungry, you’ll eat anything.

You know, it’s like a hundred years telling me they were traveling with Prabhupada. You know, I think between cities in the car, they stopped at this one, oh no, it was on the train, maybe. It was something they were traveling. They went on to the platform to get something to eat. And the only thing to eat were chili pakoras.

That’s it. You know, somehow or other, I guess it’s a local delicacy or whatever. But that’s all. So he was telling me this when we were traveling and we stopped at this little place and the only thing to eat was chili pakoras. And then he was telling about how that happened with Prabhupada. And Prabhupada said, when you’re hungry, any old nonsense will do.

You understand? So, therefore, if you’re actually hungry for developing Krishna consciousness, so whatever valid instruction you can get, whatever you can get it, you’ll take it. Not, you know, oh, I’ll only take it if they’re, you know, very nice and very special. That just makes it easier. But you’ll take it anyway. So even if the person giving the instruction doesn’t actually understand it, still the instruction is good because you understand it. So you’ll get benefit. And because you got benefit, you took it and got benefit, they’ll get benefit for that. So even if they don’t understand, they’ll benefit by your benefiting. And if they understand, they’ll benefit by giving it out and then if you take it up, then you’ll get benefit.

That’s another thing, but the point is, then here’s already practical ways to apply your humility and tolerance.

So therefore then you can, from that humble position, be grateful that they’re teaching you this. Other people may get upset about it, you know, but you can take it like that. The point is, that’s the nice thing about Krishna consciousness. It doesn’t matter what direction, anything, it still works. You know? Does that make sense? That’s the thing. I remember, as long as I never saw it again, it was this, it was a, you know, some variety of sci-fi thing I remember as a kid. And there was this, there was this, this other planet or something and they got one of their weapons and they took it apart and put it back to see what it was. And it didn’t matter how they put it together, it still worked the same way. They could put it together frontwards, backwards, put anything, in any part, in any way, and it still worked exactly the same. That’s Krishna consciousness.

Doesn’t matter what it is. Even if something seemingly is wrong, it’s still, if you understand the principles of Krishna consciousness, it still works right. Because everything is Krishna’s potency. You just have to be able to see Krishna in it. You see Krishna in it, it works. You don’t see Krishna in it, it doesn’t matter how nice and wonderful, it’s still not going to work. Right? The persons are, let’s say you have a community. They’re so wonderful, they’re so nice, they’re so austere, they work for everybody, you know, and that, everything’s together, they share everything. You know, you can just go on and on and on and on like that. And even they’re so nice, they even left some nice little hieroglyphics and clay pots and some caves for everybody in the future. Right? They did all these things. Right? But the point is, is if it’s not connected to God, they’re still going to be bound in the material world. Just they’re bound by gold chains instead of by iron chains. You know what I’m saying? But Krishna Consciousness, even the situation is really not ideal, but if you can see it in connection with the Lord, you still get spiritual benefit.

That’s why Krishna Consciousness works despite us.

You understand?

That’s the beauty of it. Because that’s why if the intent is correct, then everything else, that’s why it’s said. Even the neophyte devotee is considered as a pure unalloyed devotee if their intent is there to please Krishna.

You categorize it as pure unalloyed devotee because the intent is correct. But they’re neophyte because they don’t know the scriptures well, they don’t know how to deal with others properly and this and that. So they’re a pure unalloyed neophyte devotee.

Right? So that’s why here it’s imperfect neophyte. Because the other is just not as developed as it could be. Imperfect means there’s big holes in their practice.

That’s there, but then you see that and see why isn’t it good. Why is it not good? The condition, but that’s there. But let’s say they’re behaving very nicely. The cultured lady, you know, in the big mansion down the street, you know, somehow or other trundles into the temple and, you know, meets the devotees there because she’s, you know, seen them go by in their bedsheets and, you know, playing on their cymbals and all that and they seem like, you know, a harmless group of people. So, you know, being inquisitive because she has a huge library, she’s very well read like that and she has, you know, a big degree at the, you know, university and, you know, well respected in her different community projects and everything. She heads up so many things. So she decides to come by and she walks into the temple. Is she going to behave nicely or not? Yeah. She’s going to, everything she does, she’s going to talk nice, she’s not going to sit down or go anywhere unless somebody says she can go there. You know, she’s going to do everything right. Does that make sense? But the point is, is what, why? What’s the benefit of that? For her? For anybody. Why is that considered good?

Okay, but who, therefore, has made the machine that either works smoothly by following these rules or that doesn’t work smoothly by not following the rules? The Vedas. Okay, and who do the Vedas come from? Okay, so therefore the reason that it’s done is because that’s the way Krishna likes it to be. That’s the actual reason. Devotees talk about oh, you know, the moral elements or social elements, but they don’t refer to Krishna. They’re trying to apply it in Krishna consciousness. Okay, and they call it yukta-vairagya. Great, but the point is, is do they see it actually, the mechanics in connection to Krishna? No, they see the mechanics in connection to the western conditioning that they can relate to.

You know what I’m saying? Like that. So that’s the difficulty, you know. So, because the problem is is then how much effect you’ll get. You’ll get some effect, but the point is is do you really know why they’re doing it? Right, okay, let’s take three groups here.

One group, you know, very high-powered, you know, business people. They get together, they have their meetings, you know, they have their etiquettes, they have their rules, how they run their meetings, okay? Do they get something done? Yes, it’s definitely, there’s going to be something done. Okay, let’s go down to the other end. You have, you know, the biggest, nastiest guy in the block and some of his friends, right? And that, and they’re running some kind of drug cartel.

Okay, right? They have their rules, they have their meetings, they’re very short to the point, just like the guys on the, you know, the top level. Are they successful? Yes. Okay. Now we have a group in the middle. They’re educated intellectuals, basically, you know, from middle class and, you know, pleasant, nice guys. They get together to discuss something, you know, social or this or that. You know, they have a nice time. Does anything get done? No.

Why? Because there’s something wrong there. They follow the etiquettes, but there’s nothing getting done.

So that means something, but it’s nice, it was a nice experience.

No one’s saying the other two are a nice experience, but they’re effective.

So that means one is following the attitude nicely, but no mechanics. The other one’s the mechanics are right, but no, the attitude’s wrong. So what’s Yudhishtira? He’s got the right attitude and the right mechanics, therefore, he’s emperor of the world.

Does that make sense? So the point is, who decides that? God. So therefore, to get distracted by all the niceties of the world not connected to God, that’s a problem. Didn’t we just read that? Wasn’t there just a purport? There was just, there was a quote by Prabhupada. He’s quoting Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

I’m not for sure that there was someone who was really nice about it.

It exactly addressed this.

It’s a quote by Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. He’s saying all the things that you can get distracted by.

All these niceties and money and everything else. I mean like thirst and something like that. Yeah. It was Prabhupada quoting Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. So that’s how you know that the Shastra is Krishna in independence and only by Krishna’s mercy. Because whenever you… Page 5. Page 5. I think so. Page 5. The unwanted creepers have been described by Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur? Yes. That’s it. Oh.

Yeah.

One may also be victimized by diplomatic or crooked behavior.

One is attached to wonderful material activities.

Some… identify themselves with supportive family tradition. So that can be Vedic or non-Vedic.

Yeah. This is the Hindu Vaishnav. This is European Vaishnav. It’s funny. In America you have to do what the Americans do. You just have to. You just can’t do things that they do like that. But I remember in Bangladesh they made this plea that… Because the local people are so impressed by Westerners who have taken up Vaishnavism more than the locals. They were asked and making a plea that Western devotees come and you know you know at least come spend a little time and preach a little and really inspire the locals. The media was like you know we’re not the body why we should why we should you know pander to this bodily consciousness why can’t you know this and that you know like that. So this is absolute nonsense. You know they should see things that are brought but at the same time all you have to do is then say some of you are preaching in America and then of course you have to do it the way the Americans do. So this is the attachment to you know family tradition. So these are the distractions they come up just because of conditioning. It’s not that you have to cultivate they just are already there. You have to cultivate getting rid of them. Yes. It’s interesting we were in Bangladesh about one and a half years ago and we were asked to lead kirtan and puja and give classes and everything and we were doing it completely differently than they were. They thought it was great. And they were just this is great. That’s the point is that they really respect.

The one sentence per part we spent the whole class and the other one which is actually a total you know issue thing like that that we got to in a couple of minutes.

So we’ll continue tomorrow. You brought up the issues in your report. Sorry? You brought up the issues in your report. Oh. Yes.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare That was wonderful.

I don’t know how sophisticated and educated Americans that can talk like that.

Bye. Bye everyone.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • Real parents can save their offspring from the cycle of birth and death. They may be biological parents or not.
  • The parents should not think that “just because I am a devotee therefore whatever I do is devotional” and that their children are automatically devotees and therefore whatever they do is devotional.
  • It is not that the scriptural books are not perfect, but books are meant to bring us to association with devotees. But by reading the books of Śrīla Prabhupāda we are directly associating with Śrīla Prabhupāda and the personalities involved in the book.
  • Cultivating qualities separately from devotional service means that we make up our own process of developing those qualities.
  • It is only our duty to correct those individuals who are our dependants.
  • We do what is recommended, but we should always use our intelligence to inquire and understand why we are meant to do those things.
  • Sleep is one of the functions of intelligence.
  • People will complain that they do not understand Vedic things and therefore they would not do them. But nobody understands and can explain most of the things that Western people do, but still they are doing it.
  • Some Western cultural practices actually come from criminals.
  • All the good qualities, such as humility, tolerance, respect etc are cultivated simply by following our duty.
  • The aspect of being a gentleman is universal in any culture.
  • Just as any food will do if we are actually hungry, any Kṛṣṇa conscious instruction will do if we are actually serious to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
  • Kṛṣṇa consciousness will work right in any way.

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