Apasampradāyas #10

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Hare Rama, Hare Rama Saha nava matu Saha nava matu Sahadevam paramam ahai Tera srinava nidamaskumavir vishavahai Om Shanti Shanti Shanti Om Gaya Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita Gadadada Sri Vasanigaura Bhakta Vrnda Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare We should note in closing this chapter that the Jat Gosai tradition was originally bona fide. Quote, according to the Pancharatra injunction, only a householder Brahman can initiate, others cannot. Caitanya Chaturmina Madhya-lila 4, 111 purport. But the caste, pride, greed, jealousy and moral decadence of some unworthy descendants of great Vaisnava Brahmana householders spoiled the system. Quote, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave us His opinion in the verse Kibha-vipra, Kibha-nyasi, etc. This indicates that the Lord understood the weakness of society in its maintaining that only grhastha Brahmana should be a spiritual master. Sri Madhya-lila 4, 111 purport.

So, in other words, that’s the traditional thing, because then they can be involved in so many elements and everything like that, because that’s the general tendency. They’ll be there, you know that they’re there, you can always go. Well, before the sannyasis would be traveling, preaching, and you may see them once and never see them again. It’s not an uncommon thing in the, you know, the Vaisnava traditions, where you hear of someone’s spiritual master just happened to come to the village, stayed for some time, and then they got initiated, and then they traveled on, and they were never seen again. So, then that’s not uncommon. So, therefore, in the Pancharatri, because the deity worship is being fixed in one way, so therefore it’s there. Does that make sense? So, in the Pancharatri tradition, it’s recommended that way. In the Vedic tradition, then generally speaking, it’s also always grhastha. In the Bhagavat, then it’s not so important. That make sense? So, what he’s saying is that it started off as bona fide, so it’s not that by birth. It’s just that they were Brahmins, so naturally, then, there in that tradition, they would be the spiritual masters, but the child would have to qualify, right? He would be his father’s spiritual master. He grew up in that environment, and naturally, as a Brahmin, he would just take the responsibilities as he grew up. But, because people weren’t qualified, therefore, then it came down to just by birth. Just like the Brahmins, that they were Brahmins just by birth. Right? So, then you have a double disqualification, that they’re supposed to be Brahmins, but they’re not, and they’re supposed to be spiritual masters, and they’re not. So, you know, like that.

Okay.

Moving on. Yeah, I’m not sure if in any of this, you can say any one of us is a favorite.

Classics, yes. Another classic. Smartest. Cast proud.

The Padma Purana recommends, somehow or other, always think of Vishnu, without forgetting him under any circumstances. Actually, this is the most basic of all regulative principles. For when there’s an order from a superior about doing something, there is simultaneously a prohibition.

When the order is that one should always remember Kṛṣṇa, the prohibition is that one should never forget Him. Within this simple order and prohibition, all regulative principles are found complete. Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 2. The word smrti means that which is remembered. It is a classification of Vedic scriptures, including Dharmasastras like Manusmriti, that gives rules and regulations for the orders and ashrams of civilized human life. And histories like the Puranas that give practical illustrations of how great personalities did or did not follow these rules and what their fate was as a result. Because you have both the following of the rules and the not following of the rules. So, you see, if they follow the rules, then they get this nice result. And if they don’t follow the rules, then they don’t get a nice result. Right? So, it’s very straightforward.

Thus, the smrti śāstras can be grouped into two divisions, law books and law journals.

But why are they given the name smrti? Like laws, they are to be considered before doing something that might have legal repercussions. Can I ride my elephant on the expressway? Either I learn the traffic code, section and paragraph that applies to elephant riding, or I review the verdict of a trial that dealt with the same. The point is, I should remember the law before I act or risk being punished. Actually, it says elephant driving. Driving, yes. So, always remember this before you take your elephant on the Autobahn. Because if you look at it, right, there is no speed limit. So, it goes both ways. Why is it only known as 300 kilometers? It can also mean five kilometers.

Right? What’s law journals?

Means he’s bringing, he’s approaching here the smrti from the point is that is giving what should be done and what should not be done. So, that way then he’s saying law journals means anything that’s smrti because in everything it’s telling you what you should and what you should not do. So, that would apply to anything. So, law books would be your, you know, mano smrti, like the Brahmana, they’re telling you exactly what to do and the other ones would be saying what to do and not do in the more general.

Does that make sense? Generally, it wouldn’t be classified like that, but because he’s opening with this point that you always have an order, you have a restriction, so there’s laws. Does that make sense? So, that kind of thing, not necessarily laws meaning legal, laws meaning how the universe works. So, law books would be legal laws and the others would be universal laws. It means the law books are also based on the universal laws, they’re just applied socially. Does that make sense?

The above quote from the Padma Purana, from the Padma Purana concerns, as do all smrti shastras, the law of karma. Here the verdict is, if we simply remember Vishnu or Krishna before doing anything, we’ll not transgress the law. If we forget him, we unavoidably transgress it, even if we remember to observe lesser rules and regulations. Because keeping Krishna always in mind is the purpose of all those rules and regulations, right? In other words, if you’re doing something technically right, but not remembering Krishna, you actually are breaking the law. You’re breaking a big law and a smaller one, you’re… Right? Does that make sense? You know, like that.

How do you say? The guy drives his truck through the front window of the store, you know, takes all the big stuff, but notices that in the process some little table has been knocked over, so he makes it straight and nice and everything like that. And then he goes out. So when they catch him, he says, No, no, but I made the table nice. You know, it’s not going to work, right? So the whole point is, is we’re breaking the major law of not remembering Krishna. You know, we’re forgetting Krishna. Then even though we’re following all the little rules, then it’s still not correct.

Do we see the direction we’re going here? Is this the smartest? In other words, they follow all the little rules perfectly, but not the big rule. Right? That’s what makes them smartest.

But not everyone understands that purpose. There are three classes of Brahmanas. The Dvija, the Vipra, and the Vaishnava. The third class, Dvija, has accepted the sacred thread. The second class, Vipra, has studied the Vedas, and the first class, Vaishnava, knows the goal of the Vedas. Always remember Krishna, never forget him. Right? In other words, Dvija means they’ve been accepted into the order of Brahmins, but they’ve just started. They’re not trained. Right? They have basic qualifications. There’s potential. But until the potential manifests in the way of understanding and following properly, that then is the Vipra. Right? Because the Vipra means he has knowledge. Right? Studied the Vedas. Right? He’s studied and all that. But so he studied the Vedas. He follows the Vedas. He practices. So he knows. He’s knowledgeable. But the purpose of the Vedas, why you’re doing it, that’s Vaishnava. So that’s why the Vaishnava is considered first class. Right? So it’s interesting also this approach that, you know, you’re taking Brahmins. So then Vaishnava is first class. Vipra is second class. That’s a scholar. Right? And then someone who’s just been admitted into the order is third class. Okay? But, you know, and then the context. Okay. So if that’s the Brahmins, we’ve already started here, and then drop the bottom out, then where do the Shudras come? Right? You need a pair of binoculars.

It’s interesting. You know, Brahmins, such as, you know, like this. Within Brahmins, you know, so then. Yeah. Yes.

It’s designed to make you, but people are quite stubborn. It’s just like this. You walk into the store, you know, you get your things. You go up to the counter, you know, waiting in line there. Right? To check at the checkout. Right? And then if you look to the left there, there are boxes there. And in, you know, like, maybe like 22 or even 30 point letters, means monster letters. It says, smoking will kill you. Right? And so then, you know, having seen these signs. Right? Then, got to the counter, then they’ll tell the, you know, the person behind the checkout. You know, I’ll take those ones.

You understand? I mean, it’s just like this. How many people have died of heroin?

Right? Means it’s happened. Right? It’s not like a rare thing. Right? So, but people are still taking it.

You understand? It’s just like, everybody knows what you’re supposed to do and not do, but it doesn’t mean you follow it. So, the Vedas are written in such a way that if you follow them, it will, you will naturally progress.

But you can still be stubborn and not actually follow. I just thought, like, the examples of the people that you’re using are not very intelligent, but you think that someone like a, a smart brahmin would be more intelligent. But what do you mean by intelligence? So you’re saying, but then, then we’d have to, I mean, I’m not saying it’s not true, but I think that a lot of people would disagree that on the material platform, what they call intelligent, like you might have a university professor in, you know, how you say astrophysics. So they’ll generally classify him as intelligent, but he smokes. You know what I’m saying? You know, and then you have the, you know, the hayseed that drove in and his, you know, four by four, you know, pickup truck with the, you know, the shotguns in the back window and his overalls on and, you know, cover from head to foot with cow dung. And he also smokes.

You know what I’m saying? So, so the, the idea is that real intelligence means actually understanding the perfect. So you’ll say that actually the person who doesn’t smoke is smarter than the one who does. So that what, how are we defining intelligence here? It’s not by intellectual capacity or technique. It’s actually by application, personal application. Does that make sense? So that’s what the difference is here. The Vipra is untrained. I mean, the Dweebs is untrained. The Vipra is trained, but it doesn’t mean he understands the actual purpose. Vaishnav understands the purpose. Okay. So that’s the actual progression that should be happening. So if you get the proper association, it happens. But the point is, is people get used to seeing things in a particular way. And so as soon as someone comes along and gives that, that Vaishnav perspective, then it makes sense. So is that what you mean by proper association? Yes. You know, it’s just like, let’s say you have a crowd, right? And somebody has done something wrong. Okay. Now they’re starting to discuss the thing, what to do with that. And then, you know, tensions are high, feelings are high and everything. Then somebody steps out of the crowd and starts yelling and screaming about this and that. And, you know, about our kids and, you know, protecting the community and this and that. And then what do they do? Right? So, you know, the guy doesn’t, it doesn’t work out so good for the person who they’re discussing. It’s not that it’s logical. It’s not that that’s technically the rules or this or that. It’s just the feelings. So everyone goes, yes.

Does that make sense? So the whole point is, is there’s general perspectives, worldviews that people look at things. Right? It means, it means, why, why should someone have money? Right? Why is it that money is so important?

Right? How many, how many people do we know of that really just don’t care if they have any money or not? In fact, it’s not important to them.

Right? We read about them in history, right? You know, there was the guy in the barrel, the Greek guy. What was that, Diogenes or something? You know, there’s a couple of guys like that you hear about. It means they just absolutely just don’t care. It’s not that they’re lazy. And if they had some, it’s nice, but they’re not going to work for it. Those guys would, you know, if they won the lottery, they’d be happy. But, but, but Diogenes would, wouldn’t be happy. You understand? So basically they all, but why?

Why is it everybody thinks if you have money, it’ll be good.

And what, and what will doing that stuff do for you? It’ll make you happy. So the whole idea is that they have a set pattern of what will make you happy. Right? Get educated, you know, get a job, start a family, you know, and enjoy life.

Right? Isn’t it? And the fun part is, is then all the married people will sit around and goof about how they’re not enjoying life.

Right?

But they’ve had the money, they have the family, they have the facility. So now technically they’re supposed to be enjoying life, but then they’ll, they’ll, they’ll say of course, yes, of course, but then they’ll joke.

So it’s just a world vision that everybody thinks this is what you have to do. So, and it’s not changing, but when you add the pure Vaishnava, then he points out a different perspective. And then when people actually think about it, they’ll go, right. Does that make sense? That all this stuff, people who had it, they’re not becoming happy.

I just, um, I guess I’m having trouble understanding like something like a spiritual religious ritual.

Like, why else would you be doing that? Why not for God? It’s just like, it’s so close. See, well, this is the thing is this. It would be, see, this is a very special group here.

There means within the society, there aren’t very many of them. We have from this group, there are, there are many, you know, especially from the South. But in other words, what is the normal lifestyle?

The, you know, the standard normal lifestyle for a Mleccha.

Yeah. You understand? So therefore, religion isn’t specifically part of it. It can be, but it’s not essential, right? I mean, if the guy at work, you know, does his job nicely, cooperates with everybody else and all that. Are you worried if he’s religious or not? No. You know, what about your neighbor? As long as he doesn’t bother you, you know, like that, then it’s fine. You don’t care if he’s, you understand? So it’s not integral in the culture, right? Now, if so, therefore, if one does take up a religious thing, generally it’s with the idea that God’s involved, right? You know, at least that’s the prominent like that. Unless you go up, you know, to, what do you call it, Stonehenge or something. And then it might not be something about God. Like that, you know, they have their big festival and all that. And it’s not necessarily, does that make sense? You know, because that’s just a prominent worldview. So people just kind of go along with it. So we would think, well, that would be that. But if someone’s coming from a pious background, where all the Vedic rituals is what you’re supposed to be doing.

Does that make sense? So therefore, it’s just part of your identity. This is what we do. It’s not that they took it up because they were wanting to know something about God. Like that. Another thing where you can look at it, even the general thing. Okay, people go, they, let’s say, they go to, you know, according to their choice of Sabbath, right? You know, on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, they go down to their, you know, place of worship, right? And how do they go? What do they dress up? How do they dress? They dress nice, right? I mean, I don’t know. It means in your Christian sphere, it’s called your Sunday best, right? You know, like that, you know, you never hear about your Friday best, or your Saturday best, you know, like that. You know, or Catholic, you know, Wednesday night best, you know, stuff like that. You know, it’s okay, Sunday, because that’s, everyone can relate to that, you know, because most people go, what’s Wednesday night? You know, it’s like that, you know, it’s like that. Apple crumble night. Yes, apple crumble night. You know, for some people, that’s bath night, you know.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So you wouldn’t want to waste the weekend taking a bath.

You know, Monday, you’re too wiped out from the weekend, and you’re too bored from that, you know, and Friday night’s coming up, so you want to get a head start, you know.

I mean, I would say, does that make sense? But it doesn’t make any sense. Whatever it is. Yeah. Yes. Do the persons who just do the rituals for the sake of earning a living also qualify as smarthas? No, but a smartha means they’re actually from bona fide practicing Brahman families. They follow all the rituals. You know what I’m saying? So, so smartha means they’re into the rules. You know, a Brahman who’s not following, and this and that may not be, so they’re particular lines of Brahman. Like that. You know, that’s why it’s, it’s, it’s similar like the casco swamis that you’re just born. So you do have the element, you’re born in the Brahman family, so you’re a Brahman. So that’ll be a similar, similar kind of thing. So this is a caste Brahman. But here in specific, then, smartha is that the rule, means they’ll be the most orthodox of the, you know, born Brahmans. Does that make sense? Yeah. Not sure where we were going with that.

Oh, yeah. So you’re dressing very nicely. So they get, they all get together on Sunday. And, you know, they stand around and talk like this. Then they go inside for the service. Then afterwards, they stand around and talk. Right? So how much of it was actually important that the actual religious content? And how much was it social?

Yeah. So there, even in the idea of where the purpose of it is for spiritual upliftment, still the social element may take prominence.

You understand? This is the point being made, is that in performing any activity, it’s supposed to be remembering God and not forgetting. Right? So that’s what it’s about. So if you’re just performing the rituals and you’ve forgotten about God, that’s Samartha. Right? It’s bona fide rituals, not you make up your own rituals. So here is, it means, why would this group be thrown in? Because we can say is, okay, Apasapradayas, you make up your own rituals. And then, you know, of course, then it’s bogus. Here is you’re doing the proper rituals, but you’re not doing it thinking of God. So therefore, it’s bogus. You know, very pious, mode of goodness bogus, but bogus nonetheless.

So if they were born in a family where they’re transfecting Brahmans, they’ll be transfecting? That’s right. So the same Samarthas, you know, the next generation that are born in New York, then that’s Vedanta. Yes? What’s the difference between the Kaskoswamis and the Swamis, the orthodox ones? The Kaskoswamis and then the Samarthas is that the Samarthas are just general Brahmans. Right? But in Samartha, then they worship the Panchapasana. This is Vedic. Samarthas are very strict about the Vedic. So now amongst them, you have a group that worships Vishnu. Right? So they’ll call themselves Vaishnavas because they’re worshiping Vishnu. Right? So even though they’re worshiping the deity, they’re performing all the rituals, and, you know, basically they’re doing the same things we’re doing, but it’s not actually devotional. Because the intent is not to please the Lord. The idea is not that the Lord’s form is eternal.

Kaskoswamis, in this case what we’re saying is, those who are coming in the lines of pajaris coming down from some prominent personality in the Lord’s pastimes, then they claim to be the gurus of the Gaudiya line.

You know what I’m saying? So it’s more specific. So it’s not so much talking about if they follow the rules or not. It’s just that they’re born in those Goswami families, and so they claim to be Goswami just by birth. They’re automatically a guru by birth. Right? He was born in Uttamadakar.

So this question we discussed before in the Nitya-Naimitic element, right, that this group of Samarthas is actually Naimitic because they don’t have the purpose which you mentioned. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. We’re using Nitya-Naimitic in that way. Then, yes, they’re taking, they think that their rituals, the external rituals are the Nitya, rather than it’s being done for the Lord that is eternal. Like that. Because they’ll take it that the rituals I do every day, that’s the Nitya. And the ones I do occasionally, those are Naimitic. But actually, remembering the Lord, that’s Nitya. And the rituals that you use for doing that are Naimitic. Yes, that’s a good point. Very good. Yes. It seems like a generic tendency to be focused on the Naimitic. So if we have a person like that who’s not born in a Brahmin family… It’s the same principle. That’s why we’re learning these, is because these are the extreme cases. You know, like that. Does that make sense? Where would we classify someone who’s not… He’s not a classical Swami. He’s not a Smarta. But the tendency is that Smarta mentality, you know. It’s just like, he gets into the rules and you go to his house, and it looks like South India, and everything’s there. And they, you know, walk around, and they don’t use like, you know, as if they were South Indian priests. And, you know, they do all the things like that. You know, you may have seen them, you know, like that. So have all the different things, and they’re into Vishnu, and this and that. So we think that, you know, the point is this. Are they remembering, and is it just the form or not? So it’s not that they’re not necessarily good Vaishnavas. But there’s too much emphasis on the external, right? In other words, of course, they have that external to create a particular mood in which they can remember. You know, so that aspect is nice, but there’s sometimes too much emphasis on, right? It means, in other words, if the ritual is there, then it’s right. Well, it says, you know, the other side is that we don’t care for the ritual. It’s all about the Bab. So these things are very, very delicate.

Basically speaking, is the neophyte means he, you know, goes, oscillates between these, depending on your background. If you’re from a background where, you know, you’re socially supposed to do things, and this and that, you’ll tend towards the one side. If it was one of those, you know, who cares and all that. And, you know, every now and again, you know, somebody’s going to come over to the house. So, you know, you pick up all the, you know, Chinese little boxes and pizza boxes and, you know, at least throw them behind the couch, you know, something, get them out of the way, clear off the table in front, you know. So then, you know, then you might not worry about those things so much, you know, other than they’re supposed to go behind the couch, you know, don’t throw them in front of the table, because then, you know, it gets in the way of watching the television. Yeah, where you’re going to sit when you play the video. Yeah, yeah, you like that. And don’t put them on the couch, right? At least then, if there’s someone else going to be there. If you’re only there, then you’re moving to one side.

Right? Yeah. Yes.

And they should continue to do that, because that, you know, doing that devotional service has got credit in itself. So, is the difference between a smarter Brahmin and a neophyte who’s not able to focus on the Chinese descent, just simply the endeavor that the neophyte is attempting to, and the smarter Brahmin who’s not able to do that? You could say yes, but why is the neophyte actually making that attempt?

And how has he come to that understanding?

And where has he gotten that faith? Right, so that’s the difference. It’s just like this. You have 100 liters of milk, okay? It’s a lot of milk. How much yogurt does it take to turn all that milk into yogurt? Right?

Very little. Very little. Okay, yes. In other words, it’s a very small amount, and then that just affects when the culture goes through. Does that make sense? So that’s the difference. The neophyte has come in contact with pure devotees. He’s come in contact with pure devotional service. Therefore, that’s why they’re taking it up, and that’s their endeavor is pure devotional service. Does that make sense? But the smarter hasn’t, or even if they do, they don’t care.

So, but you said the smart ones are Vaishnavas as well. They call themselves Vaishnavas. You know, just like in India, they call an ambassador a car. You know, you know what I’m saying? You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, so many things going on. Does that make sense? Yeah. So you can, you can say anything you want. You know, so the point is, is they have the shell. But okay, let’s just take a, you know, another example. Let’s say, you know, on the, you know, how you say, glorious holiday of the, you know, how you say, spring equinox, okay? Then they get out these funny little eggs and decorate them very nicely, okay? Like, you know, what that has to do with actually the festival and the sun being in a balanced way and, you know, and, you know, how you say, you know, and, and their guru, I have no idea. But whatever. He used to steal eggs and suck them or something.

Okay. So now this is, this is the perfection of smartism here. What is actually the life about an egg? What’s on the outside, the shell or what’s inside? Inside. Yeah. Okay. So is there any inside to one of those Easter eggs?

Yeah. So that’s the point. That’s a smart thing. In other words, you have, it looks great, but there’s no substance.

It’s hard boiled.

Really? No, generally you poke holes and take everything out. Oh, okay. And then you do it. Oh, okay. It depends which one, because there’s a certain, like they boil some and they bless and they take them to church and they get them and they eat those. Yeah. But they don’t decorate them. Exactly the same as the other ones. Yeah. Okay. So then, so, but in either way, are you going to get any life out of it? No. No. Yeah. So that’s the point.

You know what I’m saying? What about the Easter bunny? How about the Easter bunny? Now you get some life out of that.

But no, it, but then, but when you say leave the Easter bunny the way he is, or they also take him and decorate him up and everything? To make him out of chocolate. Oh, make him out of chocolate. Yeah. But still you don’t get any more bunnies. So you understand? So that’s the smart thing. You’re performing an external ritual without actually the thing that gives it life. So you’re performing the rituals of Vaishnav Dharma, but not with the idea that the life aspect is important.

Right?

Does that make sense? Yeah. So if these people were somehow inspired to take, to have faith in Krishna, they’d be really close. They would find the practices of Krishna consciousness extremely easy. So for them, the culture would be very easy. They would just have to, they have to wrestle a little bit with the philosophy. Means it’s not that technically there’s a problem with philosophy, but they’re used to, you know, that it’s impersonal. So they would have to shift to the personal.

Like that. Does that make sense? So, so, but as far as practice goes, it would be, you know, completely easy. You know, does that make sense? It would be like as if you had, you know, a Western 13 year old and Krishna consciousness meant playing video games. You know, all you had to do is change the game, you know, it’s like that or the attitude and playing the games. Would he have any problems? No. So that’s like a smart. If you make it smart to Krishna conscious, then no problem. Wouldn’t they also struggle with like the broad mindedness that’s required for the preaching movement? That’s there. Anybody other than a smart, so they might have a problem. But generally speaking, from what I, the ones I’ve met, they’re very, very, they have no problem. You know, just like how you say PhDs before they join or after they join. Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay. The above quote from the Padma Purana concerns, as do all Smriti Shastras, the law of karma. Here, the verdict is, if we simply remember Vishnu or Krishna before doing anything, we’ll not transgress the law, because the point is, is the law is always remember Krishna, don’t forget him. So that way, if that’s intact, even if the secondary rules aren’t so exact, it works. Right. That’s why devotees may not know all the technical points of a ritual or the culture, but they’re doing it sincerely to please Krishna. It has effect. People become devotees, people advance. Right. And then as time, you can add in the detail, right? If someone can boil water without burning it, then you can add in things like putting some, you know, flavoring in it and, you know, stuff like that. No? But if they burn the water, then don’t even bother. Okay? Does that make sense? No? That’s why I don’t cook. That’s why you don’t cook.

If we forget him, we unavoidably transgress it, even if we do remember to observe lesser rules and regulations, because keeping Krishna always in mind is the purpose of all those rules and regulations. So in other words, you’re following all the secondary rules, but the primary rule of remembering Krishna, not forgetting, that you’re not doing. So actually you’re still transgressing the law. Right? But not everyone understands that purpose. There are three classes of Brahmins. Okay. Okay.

Okay, so the Dvija has accepted the sacred thread, the Vipra has studied the Vedas, and the first class Vaishnav knows the goal of the Vedas, always remember Krishna, never forget him. Right? So therefore, even within the Vaishnava class, because in all of these, you’re always going to have divisions. You’re going to have the one who’s just taken up Vaishnavism, the one who’s studying Vaishnavism, the one who actually understands the purpose of it. A Vipra who is not a devotee can never know the real sense of the rules and regulations of scripture. Like a crooked lawyer, he’ll use the law to enrich himself materially.

The non-devotee Vipra is what is meant by the term smart brahmana. Quote, a smart brahmana is always interested in material profit, whereas a Vaishnav is interested only in satisfying the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.19.33, purport. Does that make sense? Now, that’s what’s a smarta. Right? So it’s very clear. It’s a mentality, it’s not how they dress. So sometimes someone’s worried about the ritual and says, oh, don’t be such a smarta. But the point is, is there remembrance of Krishna or not? If there is, then that’s not smarta, it’s just trying to do it nicely for Krishna. Maybe practical, maybe not practical. That you have to discuss. But you don’t call him a smarta. But if he’s thinking just by doing this ritual, then it’s perfect, then he’s forgetting Krishna. That’s smarta. But one always has to remember, you have to be quite qualified to be a smarta. You have to be pious. So, Mahārāja, so a devotee who is practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will he sometimes have a tendency to go to yoga and jñāna, this smarta mentality?

Well, generally you would take yoga and jñāna not necessarily. It means you have the smarta element. But if he thinks it’s just by knowledge everything’s perfect, or just by whatever aspect of yoga, you know, good health or this or that, then it’s Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, it’s the same principle, but generally we call him a jñāna instead of a smarta. Smarta means the rituals are perfect.

Like that. While yogi isn’t worried about the rituals, they’re worried about the mood, the mind. But the jñāna is worried about the intelligence.

So the smarta is worried that the activities, all the activities, in other words, that’s why it’s an area of karma, right? That the karma is perfect.

Does that make sense? But why it’s supposed to be done, that’s not appreciated.

Is that right? So the purpose is missed. Yeah? Yes. So karma-vimamsa, is that also a branch? Karma-vimamsas are, you can say, they are the smarties. They’re like the jñāna. Yeah.

That is their philosophy. But that’s the thing, because jāyamini talks about a supreme, right? So they’re comfortable that there is the supreme. You’re performing the proper work, you’re worshipping Viṣṇu, so they think it’s good. But they have been distracted from devotional service because they’re doing all that just to get material profit.

Does that make sense? So he’s tricked them like that. So that’s why the intelligent ones, or the sincere ones, when they come in contact with Vaiṣṇavism, you know, actual pure Vaiṣṇavism, then they take it up.

Because many of them, they think they’re devotees.

But they think it’s because of their ritual that’s why they’re devotees, not because you’re doing it to please the Lord that makes you a devotee. So much of the time you can go to smartest houses, do kīrtans and programs, talk about Viṣṇu, and they’re really happy. Like that. They just, yeah, don’t catch the thing. And then some of them are that you were born in this family and you’re not, and so therefore we can follow the rules, you can’t. They’re more of a problem.

So Mahārāja, that story from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about yagi-brāhmaṇas, this is like a perfect illustration. Yes, that’s a perfect illustration of the smartest, is that they didn’t understand the purpose, but they’re wise, they were Vaiṣṇavas. So they were vipers, because they were studied, they could do the rituals, they knew all the rules, but it still wasn’t enough. Yes, that would be a very good point. And then the wise, they understood the purpose was to please Kṛṣṇa. So here’s Kṛṣṇa. So then you don’t have to do… In other words, the whole point of that ritual is to please Kṛṣṇa. Here’s Kṛṣṇa asking for the ingredients of the yagi. Instead of it being through the fire, He’s personally asking, right? And so then they understand what should be done. So then they give it to Kṛṣṇa. And the husbands, they say afterwards, yes, this is actually what it’s supposed to be. But they get so clouded by the ritual that they forgot. So that’s the smart thing. So Rūpa Goswāmī is not saying about smartha, you know, or, you know, how you say, those opposed to the Veda. He just uses the term niyamagraha. That you follow the rule because you think the rule is what’s important, or you don’t follow it because you don’t understand the purpose of the rule. So either case, you don’t understand the purpose of the rule. That’s actually the point of niyamagraha. But one person follows it and one person doesn’t. That’s all. Yes.

Heavenly planets, or their son passing his exams, you know. You know. Their, you know, husband’s opening his new medical clinic.

Does that make sense? Yes. I’ve seen a presentation.

Prabhupāda talks about Ganaśyam in four different aspects. Vedic, latent, and then…

Asuric. Yeah, Asuric, and then daiva. And in the Vedic presentation, the person was pointing out that that was more like karma kāṇḍi. So I was thinking, would he be looking at Vedic as much as he’s identifying…

He’s in the Vedic. In other words, why are you doing it? It means, why are people pious?

What’s the idea? To get a result. To get a result. So, in other words, they want a good material result. So they’re pious enough to approach authority for that.

Does that make sense? You know, latent means there’s a kind of concept like that, but it’s not very organized.

Right? Then you have… So those are kind of like, you’re following nicely, you’re not following nicely. Then you have the more extremes of that, where you’re following it, but you don’t… You know, it’s not for God. It’s only to please your senses. So it’s not just that general thing of just, you know, wanting to be happy, so you’ll do what you’re supposed to do to be happy. This is that you’re not interested in God. And then the other side is that you’re doing it only to please God.

You understand? So that middle group is a little bit more, you know, that would be more your innocent group. But, you know, depending on which way they’re leaning, then… My doubt came because usually we discuss Vedic as the broader vision, which encompasses… Because Daiva Varna Ashram is the real Vedic. The other is, the other is the smartest, the Vedic without the actual purpose of it.

Do you know what I’m saying? Like that. So when Prabhupāda sometimes mentions Vedic civilization, he’s talking about the real Daiva Varna Ashram. He’s talking about Daiva Varna Ashram. But the point is, is the external form looks exactly the same.

You know what I’m saying? It’s just like, let’s say, you have a cookbook. The cookbook doesn’t necessarily define that, you know, this, you know… If you’re not a pure, you know, Vaiṣṇava in a bona fide sampradāya, put the book down. Right? You know, step away from the book. Right? It doesn’t say that. Right? It’s just a cookbook. Now you can take that and cook for Kṛṣṇa, or take that and not cook for Kṛṣṇa.

Right? So cooking for Kṛṣṇa is actually what it’s for. So when we talk about Vedic, that’s what we mean. But it can mean just the recipe itself.

Right? So the recipe itself is what is broad and applies to everyone within the Vedic culture. But now those who understand the purpose of the recipe, that’s the Vaiṣṇavas. Right? So you have to be able to accommodate that all at once. You have to… That’s why it’s very important to know the context. Because then you know how broad it is. Just like Prabhupāda’s talking about in some purports how Jīva Kananda and Mahatma Gandhi are examples of those who are following Vedic culture are successful and influential.

You know what I’m saying? Because they’re following, therefore it’s successful. They’re talking, you know, Vedānta and other things, but in a bogus way. You know, Śaṅkara, you know, like that. So firstly, he includes everyone. The Indian, you know, what is being practiced there, it has… It gives results. Prabhupāda says, you know, the Bengali saying, mora hāti lāk tāka. Even a dead elephant’s worth of lāka rūpa. You know, it means whatever you buy a live elephant for, the dead elephant can be sold for the same. Because the one you’re getting the animal, the other you get the bones. The elephant’s bones are ivory. Right? The tusk is first class, but the bones are less. But you can still… It’s still ivory.

Does that make sense? So even though it’s just the skeleton, still it’s valuable. Because the concept, there’s guru, there’s śāstra, there’s sadhana. You know, even the bogus ones will accept that, you know, your overall fundamental. So that’s better than a society that doesn’t understand this. Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So then he goes on, and then he’ll remove the bogus elements and just stick to the sampradāyas. But he’ll include Śaṅkara.

Right? Like that. Then he’ll remove Śaṅkara and then just the Vaiṣṇavas. And then within the Vaiṣṇavas, we’ll show how Lord Caitanya brought out the essence of all the Vaiṣṇavas. But it’s not an uncommon theme or thread that Prabhupāda will use. So some misunderstanding can come if we just focus on one of these levels and fake the whole absolute understanding. That’s the problem.

That’s the problem. Like if you say Varnaśrama is only farming. The point is that, how can you do your farming? Right? You go out. You take your cows and that. And you plow the field nicely like this. You plant your cabbages nicely and everything like that. And then from the next country, an army marches through your cabbage patch. Is that going to be good? No. I mean, you can look at it from the element of they’ve been walking all over. So they’ll be picking up the fine dust or the topsoil from all around. And so that is, some of that’s being dropped on your land. Maybe that’s an advantage, you know. And the cabbages are being, you know, turned back into the soil for the next crops. Okay, so you take it that way. You know, you do it again. You plant your next cabbages. You know, then the other army opposing walks from the other side and walks through your cabbage patch. Then what? So can you farm if there’s no administration? And can the administrators do proper administration without the Brahmins?

So that’s the point, is that varna ashram is more than farming and cottage industries. That’s very important. But varna ashram means all four aspects. To just focus only on that. And it means the ashram. So to take two out of eight. You know, Prabhupada gave five out of eight. He gave instructions for all eight. But in the society, you had the four ashrams and you had brahminical occupation.

Right? And somehow or another now, you know, that is there, but we won’t focus on it. But we’ll focus on, you know, Vaisheshudra. Somehow by adding those two, now it’s complete. What happened to the kshatriyas?

You know what I’m saying? And generally, the other five that Prabhupada introduced aren’t prominent.

And why are we establishing it? You know, because look at the environment. We’re destroying the environment. And then if we live a natural, organic lifestyle, then everything will be in harmony with God’s creation. But God’s creation is the after-fact. The other thing is we’re ruining the environment. But that’s not why varna ashram is important. Varna ashram is God’s laws. You follow God’s laws, naturally the environment works. You don’t start from that.

Does that make sense? Yes. So the point is, is it has to be complete. Otherwise, you’re missing the point.

Yes, the complete. So in other words, dhyana-varna ashram is the standard. Now, there is the field and there’s the activities. Generally speaking, we tend to, like smartas, look at the field. That’s how we got ourself in the material world in the first place. So that’s why this smarta element is important, is one’s in the spiritual realm and one is simply looking at the facilities, the external.

Right? And so one likes that. One cultivates the external. And one’s not cultivating the internal or Krishna consciousness. So in other words, you’re in the spiritual world, but you’re not following the main rule. But you’re following all the small rules very nicely. So it looks like the spiritual world. But in your consciousness, you’re not. Externally, maybe. But the spiritual world actually is the internal.

So therefore, since it’s tathastu shakti that’s holding it together, you’re not living actually in the spiritual. You’re living in the material. Even though the person standing right next to you is living in the spiritual. Therefore, then, one is here. And how do we look at everything? From the external. If you have the facilities, I’ll be happy. If you have the facilities, you’re successful. I’m doing the rituals. That’s what makes me a devotee, rather than it’s the attitude that I want to please Krishna. That’s what’s the most important. And then, because I want to please Krishna, I follow the culture and that that he likes.

Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So, one’s trying to change it from the external to the internal. This self-realization means you have to be able to turn it into that finer and finer. Because the external is the body. Right? And that false identity. Then next is the senses. Then next is the mind. That’s the more subtle. But next is the consciousness.

So, we’re trying to get at the consciousness. If you have the consciousness, a definition of atma, then the other aspects are there. And even if they’re not so ideal, at least you’re following the main rules.

Right? Does that make sense?

That would also connect to a previous discussion which you said about the ability and the mentality behind it. In the sense that… Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, ability and mentality. So, that’s why ability is always subservient to mentality. That’s what was pointed out. Bhaktivinoda of course said is that that’s one of the mistakes that is made in the beginning in Krishna consciousness is that my material qualification, my ability is a symptom of my advancement in Krishna consciousness.

Right? Does that make sense? But it’s not. That balance. Or it’s just the mentality and it’s not the thing. So, that’s the thing. Let’s say you have a group of devotees who are advanced in Krishna consciousness, but let’s say they can’t. They’re not good managers. Right? But they cooperate, so it all works out nice. But then someone comes along and is impressed by their association, takes up Krishna consciousness, but he’s a really good manager.

Okay? Now, if he thinks, because I can manage and these advanced devotees can’t, I’m more advanced than them, then it’s not going to work.

And if the others think, well, actually the management is secondary, so therefore it’s not important and all that, you know, we don’t need the management, then that’s also missing out. You could do nice things. So, he’ll manage, so he’ll be the authority in the managing area, even over those others, but they’re the spiritual authorities to see that the management’s going right. That kind of subtlety, the two opposing elements can function very harmoniously together, that you’ll find in the Vedic. Right? But because that takes a very developed mentality to be able to do, so then what’s the ritual of that? Okay. I’m the manager, and so therefore I run everything. I’m in charge. What I say is what people do. But at the same time, I should be consulting from senior personalities, the senior Vaishnavas, the Brahmins. Right? So therefore, I’ll offer respect to them. Things, when I have new ideas, I’ll run it past them, at least the conceptual or the philosophical or principles like that, detail they may or may not understand. So, according to their ability, I may or may not run that by them. But the point is, if the principle’s right, then according to my ability, I’ll be able to apply the detail and make it happen. Okay? So, that’s what I do. Okay? So, that ritual has been made because I may or may not be able to accommodate that I’m more advanced in ability, but they’re more advanced in intent.

So, therefore, there’s a ritual that it makes, it goes on. Socially, everything goes nice, so that’s the thing about the Vedic. Even if you don’t understand it, if you follow it, it works. You know, on the external platform. And people are worried about the external platform.

Right? As I was saying, when we talk community development, what are we actually meaning? The second one, the external. Yes, and what external are we looking at? Facilitation. Right? Facilitation. I’m a devotee. I’ve been here for 30 years, you know, and I don’t have any money. You know? Or, you know, like that. I follow the authorities and all that, did all the different things, and my family life is falling apart. Now I got to get down to essentials and, you know, focus on my family. Or gifts. Yeah, you know what I’m saying? Or, you know, the marriage, the temple worked out the marriage, it fell apart, so I’m going to work it out myself. Right? Or I make all my money and all that, and I’m a grihastha, I can, you know, I should be able to, you know, use it as I like, and I’ve been told to give in charity so I can do that. But the temple says, no, whatever money you make, that’s theirs.

You understand? So, therefore, community development.

You understand?

Does that make sense? So, the point is, is it’s based on simply socially it’s not functioning, because they didn’t follow the Vedic things that Prabhupada gave.

Right? It’s simply the external, who’s in charge, who’s got the men, who’s got the money, rather than what that means. You know, just like to take it, you know, from a very legalistic point of view. Parents. Okay. What’s the legal position of the parents in comparison to the child? Basically, the parent, it’s whatever they think and they want, that’s what they have the right to do. You know what I’m saying? As long as it’s not physically or emotionally abusive by what the community feels, the parent can do that. Whether it’s the best thing or not, that’s their right. You know, it’s just like this. The parent doesn’t know what they’re doing, has no idea, but because they’re the biological parent, they have all rights. Let’s say you have a highly qualified, cultured, you know, socially, you know, stable, you know, wealthy, highly educated, you know, persons, and they want to adopt a child. They got to jump through a million, you know, hoops of fire to get that. But, you know, the little, the girl down there who’s, you know, on heroin, and somehow or another got pregnant in the backseat of a car. She’s got, you know, thousands more times more rights than them. Simply because, you understand? So the thing is, is it’s just there legally. That’s just the way it is.

So now the problem is, is what’s the point of having that kind of authority and right?

No, no, but I’m saying, how is it supposed to be applied towards the child? Is it so authoritative and so, you know, just fixed in the law and everything like that? Or it’s very nice and pleasant and kind, compassionate, affectionate, you understand?

So if every parent just says it was my kid, you know, I can do whatever I want. You do have people say that. Do you actually say that’s a great parent, you know? You know, Prabhu, I was thinking, you know, maybe it’s my kid, I’ll do whatever I like. And then you turn to, as he walks off, you know, you turn to your friend and go, now that’s a parent. We need more of these around here, right?

Isn’t that the way it goes? No, but the point is, so that’s the thing is that, no, no, you know, the Veda says, you know, that, you know, we’re the authority. That’s the way it is. You don’t have to be nice. You don’t have to be considerate because I’m the authority.

How does that work? You know, I’m the husband, so I can do whatever I want, you understand?

You know, but then it doesn’t become better by, you know, we’re the kids, we can do whatever we want. We’re the women, we can do whatever we want. We’re the cows, we can do whatever we want. You know, it’s like, you understand? So it’s not that by liberating them, it makes it any better. It’s the same exact thing. Just taking your part of the rule and applying it without the cultural element. But no rasa. It’s just, you know, like that. So if you take the rule and follow it like that, that’s, it doesn’t work because of that smarta element, right? Because you think that simply by the external, then it will work. That’s the problem.

But the point is, is you have to have the mood. So otherwise, then you have to have the ritual down and follow it perfectly. Because you are the authority, yes. But there’s also a hundred rules on what, as the authority you’re supposed to do. So even if you don’t have the right mentality, at least externally it’ll work.

Right? Mana gives, you know, it’s like half a page. We’re just talking about how the grihasta has to be tolerant, right? Because, and he mentions every aspect. You have to be tolerant with your father. You know, he does this and that and things you don’t like. You have to be tolerant. By that you conquer so many realms of the, you know, of the universe. Then of the mother, you know, of the grandparents, of the sisters and brothers. You know, this and that. And it goes down. You understand? And by doing that, then therefore it works.

So the point is, is he wants to say, but we tried that. It didn’t work because you didn’t use all the rules. You know, either you understand the mentality and then get it done. Or follow all the rules.

Yeah, you can’t pick and choose which ones you like. You know what I’m saying? So the point is, is the Vedic is actually, daiva means it’s God conscious.

Then the forms are there because even you understand or don’t, it works nicely. If you understand, this is what you’d use. You don’t understand, it still works. I don’t understand cooking, but I understand if I follow the recipe exactly what it says, right? It says, you know, I put this in and then, you know, you know, put it on this temperature, you know, medium heat, and then, you know, stir fry it for two to three minutes.

To say that means you have no idea what cooking is. But, you know, to a cook, they would say, well, how long do you cook it then? You know, until, you know, it starts to go clear, or until the water comes out, or until it gets a little brown, because then you know what’s going on. You say two to three minutes, you don’t know what’s happening here.

Does that make sense? But if you follow it perfectly, you’ll get the result. So that’s the Vedic culture, is the recipe has been worked out by the great sages, right? They’ve already tested it, right? You know, over, you know, hundreds of thousands and millions of years. So it works. So you follow it, it’ll work. But the point is, is it’s supposed to be done to please Krishna.

So if you’re doing it not to please Krishna, then it’s pious, it’s nice. Culture will be fine, right? You go to the smarter community, they’re not jumping up and down and complaining that they don’t have a community. They have a community, right? They have no philosophy, but they have a community.

Does that make sense? So the point is, they’re following it, it works. So the only consideration for the external rules, the main is that because that’s the cultural interaction which you’ll serve Krishna. But the secondary point is, as a human being, then there’s certain cultural things you’re looking for, and the Vedic will give it to you.

Right, you understand? How well does it work out for the couple if the marriage falls apart? Not so good, right?

And let’s say it’s been more of an established family. Who is it worse for? The couple or for the children? The children, all right. But what is the consideration of divorce? The children or themselves?

Right, you understand? So it’s not complete.

And then, oh, it didn’t work out like that. But the point is, so did they follow the whole Vedic thing? Or is it equal nature? Do you even know who you are as a nature? How are you going to marry someone of equal nature if you don’t know who you are?

Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So this is the whole, did you follow it? If you followed it, then of course it works out. But it still doesn’t mean you don’t have to work. I got a car now. OK, now everything’s perfect. But, you know, it’s an annoyance. I’m sitting in my house. I’m not at the office. So, you know, but do you have a car? Of course I have a car. What do you mean, do I have a car? You know, like that. So why don’t you get in the car and go to the office? What do you mean, get in the car and go to the office? No, I have a car. So that means I should be at the office. No, you have to get in the car and drive the car to the office. It’s like, what do you mean? You know, you have a car? Like that. You don’t have a car, you know, so why are you telling me who has a car? You know that, you know what you’re supposed to do.

I get that all the time. Yes.

Maybe I need a sports car.

Maybe that’s the point. I got the wrong car. I need a big, that means I need a bigger garage. I guess if you have a bit of a driveway, you could have, you know, one in the garage and one in the driveway.

Like that. Or double, two in the garage and two in the driveway. And then one parked on the street. Now that’s…

Does that make sense? Look, the whole point is, okay, the marriage is there, but unless you know how to run the marriage, it won’t work.

So the point is that you have the ritual, but if you don’t actually know how to run it, so the smarta knows the technique of running it, he doesn’t know the mentality, therefore they’re not getting the taste from it. It’s very dry. You meet smartas in their communities, a very dry community. Everything’s pious, everything’s pure, but it’s very, very dry. Very dry.

You know, that’s the problem, because it’s just externals.

You know, so it’s a very fine point here to balance. It’s that, you know, there they made an occupation out of missing the point.

You know, neophytes just do it, you know, out of, you know… Neophytes. Otherwise, you know, how can you claim to be a neophyte if you’re not doing, you know, something external, right? So the whole point is self-realization means the internal ones are more important than the external. But the point is, is how do you express the internal except through the external? Right? Does that make sense? So again, it goes back to our original principle, you know, of Krishna, you know, I -hood and I-ness. Right? It means, in other words, the self-realization of the soul is the most essential thing, but without expressing it through the forms of the body and those things connected with the body, how do you know or how do you show Krishna your Krishna conscious? Right? This is not, you know, some, you know, 60s sci-fi movie that everyone sits around with telepathy or something.

Does that make sense? You know, it’s a matter of expression, right? But if we think the expression is all that’s needed, what about the intent? You know, and the, no, but the intent’s right, that’s all you need. How do you know it is unless it’s expressed? Right? So that’s the thing. You have to have the mood and you have to have the form. So you have to have the facilities and the ability, but you have to have the right attitude.

So the two go together, but it’s always the attitude’s primary, the skills and facilities are secondary.

All right.

Next sentence sums it up.

You anticipated it. Yeah, well, you just throw something out just to make the connection, so you know where we’re going, and then it starts the whole thing. So by the time you finish, then you just kind of read the rest of it.

But then they become aware of what’s said there.

Already fits. Yeah, that’s the idea.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • In Pañcarātrika and Vedic system it is indeed recommended that householder brāhmanas only are spiritual masters. But in Bhāgavata system it does not matter.
  • Smṛti śāstras contain both the rules of conduct, and stories of people who followed vs did not follow such rules.
  • If we remember Kṛṣṇa before doing anything, we will automatically follow the lesser rules.
  • The Vedas are naturally arranged in such a way that people will progress by following them, but still people are stubborn and refuse.
  • Why would anyone follow religious rituals without the objective of pleasing God? For those from a Vedic background it is very natural to perform all kinds of rituals. Even performing activities that are meant for spiritual elevation, social element may take prominence, and that is called smarta. Therefore it is so important to always remember Kṛṣṇa in all activities.
  • The actual understanding of Nitya and Naimittika is that whatever external rituals are performed are Naimittika, and Nitya is the element of always remembering the Lord in all situations. But the smārtas will take it that daily rituals are Nitya and occasional rituals are Naimittika.
  • Smārta means performing the external rituals of Vaiṣṇava dharma without the actual essence that gives the rituals life. However, if they are philosophically attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the external practices would be extremely easy for them.
  • Performing ritual nicely is not ‘being smārta’ on its own. If one is remembering Kṛṣṇa, it is not smārta. One also has to remember that to be a smārta one has to be quite pious materially.
  • The Yajñic brahmanas in the 10th canto are a very good example of smārta brāhmanas.
  • The real Vedic civilisation means Daivī-varṇāśrama.
  • Varṇāśrama is more than farming and village industries, because no one can farm peacefully unless there is a proper administration in the country, and no one can administrate properly without proper guidance and education.
  • Varṇāsśrama is not for saving the environment, it is for following God’s laws, which naturally includes caring for the environment.
  • Self realization is for turning our focus from the externals to the internal.
  • One has to either diligently follow all the rules, or clearly understand the mentality behind rules and follow that.
  • The ‘recipes’ in the Vedic culture have been worked out by the great sages, and if we follow them it will work for us.
  • Even if people are matched in their marriage, they still have to make endeavour to make it work.
  • Without expression through external forms, how do we show Kṛṣṇa that we are Kṛṣṇa conscious?

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