Until you can go beyond justice, you can't get out of the material world. Because justice means profit and loss, gain and and safety, that's what justice is for. Justice is to maintain the principle of gain and safety. You've done right, you gain; you've done wrong, you lose. If I do right I am protected, it's safe. I do wrong, I'm not protected. So it's very, very important for that platform of economics or extended sense gratification. So it and morality, ethics basically are the same platform. So you find, many times also devotees fall into that trap: they get, they become very judicial minded and very moralistic. But it's still, it's not spiritual, unless it is connected to Kṛṣṇa. But for oneself one has to give up justice, one has to give up this pursuit of gain and safety to actually get somewhere.

So, therefore, one just has to accept this is what's there. Now, how to deal with it? Okay, husband expects certain things. Are they within the religious principles? If they are, fine, if they are not, that needs to be addressed. There needs to be discussion, that has to be worked out, it has to be within religion, otherwise it is not progressive. But if it is, then what's the problem? Because you put into it, it's a party, who... Means, whichever one is waiting, just like two people sit down and take prasāda, right? One finishes first, the other one sits and waits. And so, that's the whole point, is that it has to be seen, it's a partnership. So then you do what you... Means, in other words, until the taste is dealt with, it doesn't necessarily go away. But it only goes away in knowledge, therefore the vānaprastha discusses these things, and discusses them in a way that is discussing the philosophy, not just justice. You know, and 'I feel you're attached and I'm not,' and... You know what I am saying? That level it can't be done at because then there is a threat and the ego, and all these things. It is a matter of the philosophy going through and then both discussing and both coming to the realization that this has to be given up. So, but it becomes easy to give up if it is being dealt with nicely, right? Sometimes if it is being dealt with badly and there is no taste, then it can be renounced, but the desire for the thing as an ideal still remains. But if it is dealt with then it just is dropped. Because wife is taking care, wife is doing all these nice things, at the same time is, what is the purpose? You know, by that knowledge, and then at one point then that's given up and then the whole thing simplifies.

So you will find, many times it is the wife first, the husband first, you know. Because women tend to be more religious, in some, many situations you'll see the wife is the first one to figure this out because of that natural... So if the man is trained in the philosophy and the control of the senses then traditionally they've figured it out first. But if that hasn't been the background, women no matter what the background is are religious by nature. Does that make sense? So, many times you see the women will, their performance of their duties is going more smoothly sometimes than that of the men's, depending upon their background, their training and all those kind of things. Plus then you have on top of that just the individual and what is their background, what is their saṁskāras, so what they require to purify themselves. So that's the whole point: gṛhastha āśrama is how to purify, like that, how to engage what are the desires in the Lord's service. And so, the gṛhastha āśrama gives the most fullest extent of engaging the greatest variety of desires in the Lord's service. So all, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa and bhakti - all of them have been engaged. While the other āśramas it is reduced. Bhakti is always open, mokṣa is always open and dharma is always open, but artha and kāma are reduced. So if there is desires in that area, then those are taken care of through other āśramas. Does that make sense?

So it is a matter of if the mind just accepts, life becomes so simple. It just becomes so easy because otherwise generally it's our mind is the biggest problem, not the other people. Śukadeva Gosvāmī has no problem with anybody, he is happy. You know, he has got kids following and making all kinds of comments and doing funny things and calling him names, and he doesn't care. So he is happy, and the kids are in anxiety, though they think they are having fun, but they are the ones that will suffer. But he doesn't. And you can say, what they are doing is injust, it is improper, here is a self-realized soul, you know, all these different things, and... But the point is is, by justice-wise then Śukadeva Gosvāmī is right and all the kids are wrong. But that doesn't help the individual. The individual is helped by, they just forget it, give it up. Then you are free, it doesn't matter. Everybody else can do all the craziness they want, what does it matter to you? So as soon as we just give up, 'Okay, these are the duties to perform, these are the reasons that these duties come up, these are the reasons why I am in this position,' and so therefore one just goes with it, and automatically the mind is peaceful and one is happy, one is satisfied. And then it doesn't matter because what's the big deal? You know, pick up some socks, okay. No, but they are devotee socks. Like that kind-of thing, you just, it depends how you look at it. If you look at it, 'Why can't he pick up this? Why can't he put his socks in the right place?' That's a point of justice. But if it's just service if I, 'Oh, here is some service we can do,' then it completely changes. You know what I'm saying?

We are saying this not based on political correctness, or so... We are basing this purely on: do you want to get out of the material world or not? That's what we are basing it on. Because if we are looking at it from other angles, yes, we could make comments, we could say, 'You talk to the husband, he should be more considerate,' all these different things. But that is his life. But for your life then it's, if you want to get out of here, this is what you can do: you just detach yourself from it and perform the duties. Then it just goes away. You are free. You are liberated. And then by your sādhana, then you'll develop love for Kṛṣṇa. You know what I am saying? Like that. So that is the combination, and what the other person does, don't worry about. Means, if they do nice, great. But if they don't then it doesn't matter. You are already free, and if they also then endeavor in such a way that it makes it more progressive, then it just makes it that much easier for you. But it doesn't change the paradigm. Like that. That principle is purely in your hands, that you fully have control of, is: how you want to value it, how you want to deal with it? No one else is imposing that on you, no one else this and that. How you set up your value system in the way of your priorities for spiritual life, that is in your own hand. Does that make some sense?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Of course. that's the point. If you take the step, Kṛṣṇa will do it all because these desires going from the heart is simply Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Kṛṣṇa, He removes them, but you have to desire, then He will remove them. He won't remove them if you don't desire. As long as you want, they stay. What was it? A famous one from Sai Baba, 'I will give you what you want until you want what I have to give.' [Laughter] Yes.

So, in other words, Kṛṣṇa is just going to deal what you want, how you want to play in the material world, 'Okay, here it is,' but when you want to go back to Godhead then it's, 'Okay, then it is another discussion.' Then it's a matter of drop the ego, drop the material desire and just try to please Kṛṣṇa, and nobody is getting in the way of that, there is no question of any justice or any injustice, or this or that, and you are doing your service, and 'They are devotees, why they are getting the way, why they...?' No. It's just, better it comes from devotees, right? Means, it's just like you see, in every... It's a common principle, when there is a... What do you call it? A revolution. Is that you'll have some outside party that is oppressing a second party, and now it may be said, now this party that is oppressing, means that is running the administration, there may be great benefits that are there from it, economically, in protection and this and that. But at the same time people aren't satisfied because they are dealing in bad ways. So now, if you get rid of that party, that administration, then you will get rid of the ways that they are disturbing you, the bad side, but you also lose the good side. And if you ask anyone who is determined to carry through with their revolution, is that they would rather face these difficulties themselves with their own people than have it coming from outside. It's a common thing, you ask any member of any revolutionary group, they all say the same thing. Because if it wasn't, then they would look at it and go, 'Okay, you know, they're in charge...' Like you see, in India, they didn't care who was the Emperor, as long as they could perform their duties. But when it was, you saw in, like the Moguls were running it, no one complained, like that. British were running it, at the beginning no one complained either, but when the British decided that they were going to destroy the Vedic culture, that's when they started complaining. Even then, not so much, but when they were economically overly oppressive, then people were... Otherwise you have to pay tax anyway. What do they care if it goes to a Muslim or goes to a British guy or goes to what, you got to pay it anyway. So the principles then is, these things are going to happen. Would you rather the karmīs are bothering you or it's going to come from the devotees? That's the choice. Means, you are going to get what you deserve anyway, so it's just a matter if it comes through devotees or through the karmīs, like that. One always has to remember, we became a devotee because we were not satisfied in the karmī world, and it's not that now after so many years it is improved, it's gotten better.

Does that make some sense? Yeah, so like that is, that angle of vision then is what actually makes you independent. Because then you are independent of the modes of nature, by giving up the desire for gain and safety and putting that onto Kṛṣṇa, like He is, 'Kṛṣṇa is my maintainer, Kṛṣṇa is my protector,' like that. Then that is complete, that is considered to be the highest. Those who consider, 'Kṛṣṇa is my maintainer, He is my protector.' Like that. So, because there is two ways you can run the six symptoms [of surrender to Kṛṣṇa]. You can just put it as how they are going through in one sense. You can put it as accepting and rejecting those things that are favorable or unfavorable as the first, the neophyte, he does like that. Then you take the second stage where he starts to analyze to see Kṛṣṇa as the maintainer and protector, that is the madhyama, then when he fully identifies, that is the uttama, identifies with that and is meek and humble. But the process starts from first you identify that 'I am a devotee' and become meek and humble, then you can take up the devotional process of accepting and rejecting, then you can fully surrender and become that Kṛṣṇa is fully the protector and maintainer. So you have those two angles of how you can look at it. So that aspect is then there, and then whatever it is, Kṛṣṇa is giving you that facilities and a partner that takes part in that, and in this way Kṛṣṇa is protecting and maintaining. What you see is Kṛṣṇa, you don't see that it's anything less. Then it's not a big deal to take part in it.