It’s in connection with this concept of aprasampradaya.
Different mood, but let’s, I’ll throw out a hint. There’s a good chance that a huge amount of you in this audience are from the particular aprasampradaya. I think it’s about three billion people, yes. It’s like putting Mahaprabhu in a place where He doesn’t want to be. That’s there. I mean, of course. Then the mood is that, is there? Yes? That’ll do. Because then how will you get His mercy? Hare Krsna mantra is more inclusive. More people would… It’s more inclusive, you could say, more general, but at the same time as Lord Caitanya is Krishna, who is Sraddha. Yes. Is the Christian concept of placing the son of God or Jesus ahead of God Himself? Yes, you could say that. That would do. But then there’s something very specific.
You need a hint? Not following His instructions. Not following His instructions. In other words, it’s about the person, not about the person’s instructions.
Does that make sense? You just have faith. And then you’re saved. Okay, so now that you have faith, now what do you do? Oh, there’s nothing to do. What you’re doing is just having faith.
You understand? That was the difference between the original apostles and the later. The original, it was just about following the instructions. The latter was all about the preacher himself.
So here then it becomes about Lord Caitanya, not about his instructions. So in the same way, we’ll see later it comes up, because it becomes its own full-blown Upasampradaya, the Karnabajanas. But it means that like you’re taking Prabhupada, it’s all about Prabhupada. It’s not about Prabhupada’s instructions, it’s about him himself. You have the deity of Prabhupada. No one, when they sit, can’t be above this chest and this and that. But what about Prabhupada’s instructions?
You understand? So this is a very significant point that may be missed.
Because the point is, if Lord Caitanya is important, why is he important? Is it the Vapu or is it the Vani?
This one thing makes so much difference. Otherwise, why is it all about Diksha Gurus? But we see how the Acharyas are saying, it’s all about Siksha Gurus. Then amongst all these Siksha Gurus, this ocean of wonderful preachers and all that, one happens to be your Diksha Guru. But we may get, no, there’s the Diksha Guru and then there’s nobody else.
You understand? It’s the same problem.
What? Does that make sense? Yes. How do you tell the difference when somebody’s not following? Because Prabhupada gave a lot of instructions about all sorts of different things. So how do you tell the difference between somebody not following the instruction and following an instruction from another instruction? No, the point is, there’s so many instructions that are there to apply to all situations that one may find in life. So, according to the situation you apply, according to your duties, like there’s instructions that apply to Dukh, grihasthas that may not apply to brahmacharis, or the other way around, or travelling preachers to someone who’s a congregational member, or like that. So, it’s a matter of what applies for you. The point is, for your position, you’re following the instructions. But even within that, even within your position, there’s instructions. Right.
So, it doesn’t matter which… If you’re doing something that’s according to your position, time, place and circumstance, country, time, cancer, everything, and then it doesn’t matter which instruction you apply as long as it’s according to… No, because it’s all Krishna, so it doesn’t matter. It all works. It’s just, you have to connect yourself to Krishna. That’s what you’re trying to do. Yes. Yes. In the context that you were just mentioning, you can see nowadays nationalism, populism and also gurupism is very popular.
People may argue that falena pariciyate, whatever gets the result, whatever gets the job done. So, it’s very popular and it’s very productive to create groups around the person and to have that faith in the person. No, no, the group is not a problem as long as the group is following the instructions. It means that it’s going to be around the person, it has to be around the person. The concept that it’ll be around an impersonal group doesn’t work. Especially if the impersonal group’s not even an oligarchy. Because at least in oligarchy, you know, this is the group of people that are taking responsibility. So, it’s a group of individual leaders. But if you create a bureaucracy, then that’s not leadership. You can’t inspire because people are inspired by people. So, the problem is not that people are following or grouping around. The problem is that if they think it’s just by being around, that’s perfection rather than following their instructions. That’s the problem. Initially, people become attracted to the personality and the charisma, but then that switch to the shiksha, to the instructions, it takes a lot more work to educate people around shiksha than to get them just attracted to person, to Vapu. Because, no, it’s more, it’s the next stage. Because the first stage is Madana. Then you have Govinda. Because Govinda means instructions, means endeavor. Then you get the result of that is Gopinath. That is love for God. So, it’s three parts of one program. So, like you said, generally most everybody only sees the first part. Like you make devotees. Everyone can relate to that. But then after making them, then you train them. That instruction was given in 75. Prabhupada said, boil the milk. I mean, problem is, is most people aren’t cooked. So, that concept just doesn’t relate. So, what does that mean, boil the milk?
They buy whatever it is in the market.
So, the difficulty comes is that the first stage is good. In other words, the point is you contact the person. So, you attract them to Krishna Consciousness. Then you cultivate them in Krishna Consciousness. Then they develop that love of Krishna. So, that’s the point. Chaitanya means that it’s that energy, that attraction, that inspiration. Vishwamitra means you cultivate.
Does that make sense? Then that element of love of God is there. So, all three stages. That’s why you see the Gayatris in three stages. The philosophy has Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayoja. So, generally Sambandha, at least part of it is what’s accepted. But the idea of that, the instructions on how to apply it and perform it, that you just work it out yourself. That’s the maverick. Can you move that pot a little bit away from the plant?
Please.
So, the point is, it’s not a problem of personality, because it’s only going to run by personalities. Like if you have history, the interesting parts about history, the persons. Events are nice, but then you want to know why that, and it’ll come back to persons.
So, this is sometimes taken that the person is the problem. No, it’s not the person is the problem. Because if there’s some maturity, it won’t be a difficulty. People won’t be distracted like that, because people are inspired by people. So, that’s not there. The difficulty is if it remains on that neophyte platform. That’s the preliminary platform. You know, it’s just like, let’s say, you have to plan the menu, do the marketing, clean the kitchen, cut the vegetables.
So, that’s not the problem. But if it remains like that, it’s a problem. Then they say, Oh, but they’re only interested in cutting vegetables, nobody’s cooking, and this and that. But then, you know, so all this is bad. No, it’s also good. It’s just that from that, you go to cooking. From cooking, you go to offering, and then eating. You know, so, generally, it’s not seen as a process.
So, because it’s not seen as a process, then that preliminary part which they caught, Prabhupada’s preaching, he’s making devotees, he’s stressed in making devotees, but that means you’ve started the process. You know, if you get in the car, turn on the motor, then we can talk about driving. But people think all you have to do is get in the car and turn on the motor, you know. And that works okay if you’re outside, but if you’re in the garage, that’s a bit of a problem. In bigger operations, it’s usually specialized. So, some people do this, some people do that, some people do that, because of expertise and of time and the process of the function. Yeah, then that’s fine. So, is that the same in a spiritual organization, or should a person do all the… If someone does… The point is that one engages so that all aspects of one’s nature is engaged. So, if somebody has more facets, they engage all those. If someone has just like one thing, they do that. It doesn’t matter. The point is that it’s connected to Krishna. But if one doesn’t see the… In other words, even though one’s doing a specific thing, you should know where that fits in the overall. You know, like the guy who washes pots, if he doesn’t understand that his washing of pots has some direct connection to the cooking, then he thinks he can wash the pots whenever, or in whatever order. If he understands the cooking connection, then he might think, okay, when they first start cooking, they cook the rice and dhal, so they need those pots first. And, you know, they need the counter over there for cleaning, cutting subji, so that’s done first. You know, so then he… His work fits into the bigger picture. But whatever it is, each one’s doing their thing, not understanding the whole person. And then each one gets in the way. I want to put the pots after I wash them on the counter, but the other person, he wants to cut the subjis on the counter. You know? So then it’s a whole problem, because nobody understands the overall picture. So if that’s understood, then everybody specializes, because that’s the… In the Vedic system, the idea is specialization. Lifestyle is the same, but as far as occupation or expressing the skills, that’s specialization. But otherwise, everyone has a lifestyle. That’s why in the Vaishnav culture, you don’t have to identify someone as a…
How do you say? A designation by varna. Only ashram you do, because the lifestyle is the most important. Like that. Because everyone’s following the Vaishnav lifestyle, which is automatically brahminical. But occupation, you have to actually know it, and know who does have the qualities, and who does what, so that you know how to cooperate. So the idea is that we don’t designate at all, that’s bodily consciousness. It’s actually not bodily consciousness. Saying that is bodily consciousness, because we’re the soul. We’re never the body in the first place. So why would it even come up that that’s a discussion, that by saying that, you’re connected to the body, because then we would only think that if we actually do think we’re the body. Because the point is, the cook goes into the kitchen, because he discusses, well, this is a frying pan, and this is a wok, and this is a skillet, and this dish is for baking. Oh, oh, why are you being so bodily conscious? Why are you being so external? No, they’re just all parts of Lord Chaitanya’s kitchen. Then can you cook? No, you won’t be able to cook at all. So, in other words, people who don’t know the field, and externals are important to them, make these points. The point is, if we’re not the body, then it’s very easy to discuss about the body, right? Something you’re not attached to, like this rock, you know? I mean, it’s easy to talk about. You know, if I drop the rock or something like that, no one freaks out, or anything like that, you know? Like that. But, you know, you start talking about a kid, now all kinds of stuff is coming up. You know, about their house or money. I bring up about their money. What about my money? You know, just immediately, because there’s attachment to it. But if it’s something you don’t care about, like, you know, what kind of, let’s say, you know, arrangements or boxes or things should we make for, you know, tsetse flies in, you know, how do you say, Northern Africa, right? Anybody cares? You know, it means whether we make them out of copper or silver, make them out of wood, or even if we don’t make them at all, you know, it’s like, nobody cares. So that’s the whole point, is that if we actually are not attached, and we’re not the body, then what’s the problem going? My body’s like this. You know, it’s taller, it’s shorter, it’s fatter, it’s not, it’s this and that. It has these skills. It has this particular, you know, mind to body skills. The other one, he doesn’t have that, but he’s really sharp. You know, it’s like, you know, you would not, let’s say, classify Einstein as, you know, a fashionista. Right? And actually, he made sure he had five suits that were exactly tailored the same, so it didn’t matter which piece went with what. So if somehow or another he got the pants from one suit and the coat from another, it didn’t matter, because he could not relate to it. All he knew is that people like it if you wear a suit. You know? So he wore a suit, because it makes life easier. He’d rather talk about science, and if you wear a suit, they’ll talk, and if you’re wearing something else, they’re worried about what you’re wearing, you know, rather than listening to your math. So he does it for that. So the point is, if one doesn’t have the attachment, then it’s very easy. So if someone has brahminical nature, they do the brahminical things. Okay, he can sit with the deities all day. Someone needs to sit with the deities all day, because if we want everybody else to go out preaching, someone has to be with the deity. This guy can do it. He should do it. You know, we don’t harass him. No, but you’re not doing Samkhyatana. But the point is, he is doing Samkhyatana. By him sitting all day, everyone else can go out and preach. Otherwise, you can have someone who could do, you know, a thousand books a day, and he can do two books a day. So that thousand book guy is going back and doing this, and he’s going. So, no, he does the puja all day. This one does that. Another guy can cook fabulous. So when everybody comes back, everyone has nice prasad. So then it works out like that. So you don’t, it’s not a matter of, oh, we’re not the body, so we don’t designate. It’s, oh, we’re not the body, so we can designate. If we think we’re the body, that’s where we get touchy about designation. Because the point is, it’s like this. If you go into a community of devotees, you know, how many devotees are educators, that they actually have a job education, or they’re working in that kind of intellectual field, right? Very few. How many are actually connected with administration of the, you know, the town, the village, the country, like that? I know one guy who’s, you know, a devotee, who’s the vice mayor of a village, right? Like that. You know, there’s a few around. How many have their own business? A few more. How many work for someone else? Most everybody, right? Now, here’s the fun part. Nobody’s a shudra. You can’t say you’re a shudra by occupation.
You know, it’s fine up to that point. Oh, so therefore, then by occupation, you shudra. No, no, we’re devotees, we’re devotees, we don’t, we’re not. Hey, you know, but everything else is bodily consciousness. You know, he’s a brahmachari. Why is he doing that? Well, hey, he’s got this body. Why are you looking at him? You know? So it’s only in varna everybody freaks out. Nashram is kind of, it’s so obvious, no one minds. Okay, he’s not with a woman. Okay, so he’s either brahmachari, vanaprastha, sanatana. He’s with a woman. Okay, so he’s grhastha, right? You know, so no one feels, oh, he’s being singled out, you know, like that. But in varna, it’s a problem.
So the point is, is being made, is that we have these things, so everybody does what they do. The guru is leading, and so that, but he’s leading on behalf of his guru. So it’s not a problem. We make it into, oh, it’s all about prestige, and this and that. It’s not all about prestige. You know, the position of guru is there not for prestige. We make it into that. And that’s specifically this group, the smarthas, and the caskoswamis, that’s their specialty. You know, making something that’s supposed to be spiritual into something just a position, like that. So we have to be careful. That’s why this study is there, that we don’t make those same kind of mistakes. Because the tendency is, is whatever goes on in this book that’s wrong, is the tendency of a neophyte. But by training, then he’ll not do that and come to the mud from the platform, so that he’ll avoid all that. That’s the… Yes? Maharaj, doesn’t this specialization have a downside as well? Like, for example, a factory worker who just does one repetitive part of manufacturing… But is he using his intelligence? Well, in this case, let’s say no, versus, you know… Let us say…
He’s… You have a factory of carpenters, right? And they make furniture. So one guy, you know, is good at roughing out the wood. Another guy at, you know, bringing it to the shape. Another guy at carving it. Is there a problem there in that factorization?
Nothing. No. Why not? Because skills and their intelligence are absorbed. The other guy, he sits there, pulls a lever and then pushes a button and pulls a lever and then pushes a button. What does that take? Doesn’t take any brains. So that’s the problem, is that he’s not really being fully engaged. He’s busy all day, but he himself as an individual isn’t engaged. So the point is, is everybody should be engaged. So the body, mind and word are engaged. Because generally most, many factory workers, then they are fully engaged, but for many they’re not. They should be doing something else.
Yes? So, um, Prabhupada gave the instructions of, if you’re like this, then you should be a prehoster, if you’re like this, then you should be a brahmana, whatever. So, then, within that, we can have, as a superhero, many different ways of expressing that. So is it the guru’s job to just make sure that you’re doing, you know, you’re being a prehoster if you’re meant to be a prehoster, or are those separate little tiny details? Seems like, what, how many plied toilet paper you should have. No, not that. Whether it should be plain or have faces of political figures on it, or, you know, I mean like that kind of stuff.
Well, I guess, you know what I mean, like, how small a detail does it have to be? The guru’s to see that you understand the principle. You’re to work out the detail.
Okay.
So, so then, yes. It’s just like this. You know, you have, okay, if you have one vase, okay, then what vase goes on the table? That one vase. What if you have ten vases? Which one goes on the table? Call the guru. Huh? Yeah, call the guru. Okay, now we got it.
You understand? It’s according, yeah, and it’s specifically the Dixons that got this idea. So the guru only decides that you put the vase on the table and not have it. No, he tells you that you engage your nature in the Lord’s service. aesthetics and all those things are important to you, then you should see that all this is nice. If aesthetics are not important to you, don’t have a vase because you won’t know what to do with it and there’s a good chance you’ll drop it. Right?
Does that make sense?
I mean, you can get a vase, but don’t get a vase. Okay? Does that make sense? You know, have one just in case people come over, you know, check it out.
You understand? There’s the principles that, because why that? It’s everything. Your curtains, how your couch is, how the pillows are, how on your bed, how is that made up? What does your bathroom look like? What does your closet look like? What does your kitchen look like? What does your garage look like? You understand? So the point is, is if the vase is nice, it should be everything else is nice. It’s not that that’s the one thing. It’s a principle of cleanliness and tidiness. Does that make sense?
That’s what gurus sing because that’s what’s there because then when you do deity worship, when you deal with the devotees, you manage, it will be clean. The cleanliness is more than just dirt. Cleanliness means it’s simple, it’s straightforward.
Does that make sense? Like that. So that’s the whole idea is that cleanliness, all the aspects of cleanliness are understood. The more you understand it, the better you’ll be at any one of them. But now how you apply that, that’s every individual’s unique.
Does that make sense? So that’s up to the individual to decide themselves? Yes. Because otherwise what are you going to do with your intelligence? Right? It needs to be engaged.
Yes.
I’m going to give you an example of the kitchen department. Adanandis, myself, late recently I was really shocked how I get a training in Pancha Athletics or Duty Worship and I come to the kitchen somewhere in Mayapur and this kitchen nobody has any idea or training how to keep the kitchen of Radharani clean. When I bring the topic into it everybody is surprised. How, why should we keep the kitchen of Radharani clean? So… Great. We can try another person out and maybe we’ll try maybe it’s your… the kitchen of Lord Chaitanya or Lord Nithyananda or something. Maybe you’re using, taking the wrong approach. Maybe the wrong approach. The point is that myself, I can see that those devotees coming mostly they have training into Sankhyatan or preaching or whatever. But the detail how to be clean, cleanness is close to godliness. It’s far away from their conception. So, my question is how do we relate to this? There is a preaching organization but there is a lack of cleanliness my understanding into… I mean the basic thing keep the kitchen of Radharani or Nithyananda clean.
I don’t mean to… I didn’t mean to get you worried.
I was just saying as a technique you can try it out. I don’t relate so much with this. I mean it’s a preaching organization when you come to cleanliness. It’s… But what are you preaching?
Excuse me? What are you preaching? We’re saying you’ve used the term preaching organization so what would that imply?
But what does the books explain?
You understand? This is where the difficulty comes. Preaching is thought of only as just the preaching itself. But the point is is why would someone want to listen to your preaching unless you’re doing?
Does that make sense? That’s the whole point. Is you’re living the lifestyle that you’re preaching that will be the successful preaching.
You understand? Because preaching is not a technique. It’s simply an expression. Your… Your… Your individual expression of the value you have for the lifestyle you’re living.
You understand? That’s what Proverbs said. If you… A book distributor should be reading the books. If you read the books then you’ll have the most effect because you read them you value them so therefore you’ll be able to convince others of the value. Right? So the point is is it’s lifestyle. So you don’t hear much discussion of lifestyle. I mean, in the 70s I remember most of it was discussion about lifestyle. And then because the lifestyle is so wonderful we’re preaching about that.
You understand? So then it’s a balance. But if it’s only it’s just you’re just preaching you live out of the back of the van and live like a, you know, like a Neanderthal or something like that. Yes, the books go out and that’s good. And if that’s what they… all they can relate to then it’s perfect. But the point is is they shouldn’t come back to the temple and complain.
You know? You know what I’m saying? They shouldn’t say, well, why isn’t everyone doing… You know, it’s like, well, why don’t you clean your van? You know, it is Krishna’s van. You know what I’m saying? So the problem is is that the lifestyle there’s no emphasis on lifestyle.
Is that what you’re saying? It just isn’t.
And you mentioned kitchen here in Mayapur. I would take it to the point of every kitchen in our movement. It’s just Mayapur kitchen is ten times bigger than any temple we have in the movement. You go into one of those kitchens you could take ten ISKCON temples around the world and stick it inside there. Right? And it takes a temple president to manage one of those temples and it’s still not clean. So now it would take ten temple presidents to manage that. There’s only one guy running the kitchen. So you have to give him a break. So it’s not just Mayapur. It’s every kitchen in the world. I have not come across a clean kitchen.
Like that. Huh? Okay, Zurich. But as we mentioned before there’s a uniqueness of the person from Zurich.
Everything is exact and perfect. But you know it just heads a little south or go north. And then you’ll see what I’m talking about. Okay, Zurich. Then that’s good. Because Prabhupada wanted to do this. Bhavananda was one of your best managers personally trained by Prabhupada. When he’d come to Mayapur it wasn’t about going around and seeing his management. He’d walk around and see the cleanliness. He could tell if it’s managed by his cleaning. Like let’s say we go into a big high-end hotel. What’s the one of the things about it that’s different from the regular hotels? It’s clean and tidy. You know, you go into some fancy museum or some fancy theater or anything fancy. Fancy store. It’s clean. So all you have to do is look. If it’s clean, it’s well managed. If it’s not clean, it’s not well managed. You know, maybe they’re making some money, but okay. But what are you going to do with the money? You know. So that’s the problem. So Prabhupada walked around. There’s that one pastime in the little nectar book where Prabhupada went around. This is after many times coming and you know that Bhavananda had improved his capacity. And Prabhupada went around the whole Mayapur project and that’s big. You know, personally walking around looking at everything and everything was clean. He’s walking around and finds the last bit. He’s gone around the whole lotus building. He’s on the roof of the lotus building. Gone around that and I think in the last corner before coming back to the stairs there was a little wad of paper in the corner. Prabhupada took his cane and pointed it out. There.
So he caught you. It’s not perfect.
Like that. So that’s the thing. So what you’re talking about the cane is that’s a very major thing. Extremely major. But, is it ever discussed? No.
Deity worship? No. You look at the Deity they look fabulous. Look behind the altar. Looks like a bomb.
You know. So that’s the problem is that you have to any of these things it’s the lifestyle if the lifestyle is appreciated that just makes the preaching so much stronger. I mean, I remember people come to the temple and the first comment was it’s so clean.
But I don’t think I don’t think any of our temples could claim that that’s there may be exceptions like you’re talking about. But other than that so where you go is that that’s not a comment people make. They may talk about the devotees who are nice or this or that but that it’s clean and tidy I’ve never heard in recent years that’s a comment people make. Because it’s not a focus. No one worries about it. So the thing is that’s part of the lifestyle. So we say cleanliness it pervades everything. You know, we’re a culture that pervades everything. We do Vaishnav etiquette it goes into everything. Like that. You know, we’re focused on what we do nice and we do that and everything. Not that we just kind of get it done. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yes. If devotees have been around for a long time and they’ve gotten into a habit of doing things a certain way like, you know, they’re attached to coming clothes or they’re not the cleanest or whatever but they’ve been around so long how it’s a habit how on earth do you change that? By valuing the change. Unless you value something you don’t change. Yeah, but how do you get them to change? It means if you’re doing it and they like you then there’s every chance that they might start to do it. But it’s not up to you other than just doing it yourself there’s nothing else to do. If you’re in a position to say something you can say if you’re not you don’t you just do it. The point is see it’s like this it’s that that may be means that they’ve been around a while if they’re still around means they’re doing something right in their devotional practice. Right? So the point is is whatever is that right that will be very developed and other areas won’t. So everybody’s an individual so where it’s easier for them to advance and where it’s harder that will be different from person to person. Right? So an area that you find easier then you shouldn’t judge others specifically on that one. The point is is there any aspect that they’re engaged. Right? So that’s the whole point. It’s just like it’s not means let’s say in devotional service it’s not that one’s doing Brahminical activities better someone’s doing Kshatriya activities better. It’s not that one’s better than the other. The point is is are they fully engaged? Right? Does that make sense? So the one’s managing all day and one does one arti-gadai. So it’s nice but the point is is the prajari’s not fully engaged. You know what I’m saying? So the point is to be fully engaged. That’s that’s that’s the idea. So it’s like the ten different devotees that achieved Krishna through different like Sukadeva Swami Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Like that. In other words and so that’s why don’t worry about it oh they’re so advanced but they have this anarta. It just means that’s where the slow part is. Point is let’s say let’s say one’s eighty percent advanced. Okay? So that means twenty percent’s not. So so don’t be surprised that it’s twenty percent don’t say because there’s twenty percent there can’t be eighty percent. You know that’s not good math. You know what I’m saying? But unfortunately because let’s say that one quality’s important to us then it’s all encompassing it’s hundred percent. You know? So do you have in order to go back to Godhead or please Krishna however do you have to have a hundred percent or You have to remember Krishna at the time of death. Okay. So not it’s not necessary.
That’s not exactly the Do you have a hundred percent as long as you’re fully engaged?
But how do you be fully engaged? How will you actually take it seriously to be fully engaged? What do you have to think you want to get to? What percentage?
Well a hundred percent Yes. So that’s the point. You’re in striving for a hundred percent but the point is is remembering Krishna. You remember what you always do so if you’re always trying to please Krishna then you’ll remember Krishna even if you haven’t come to a hundred percent. In other words your endeavor is a hundred percent. It doesn’t mean your result is a hundred percent. Okay? Yeah. That’s what I mean. The sincere devotee means he’s a hundred percent. We saw that there was that that quotation from Prabhupada before where he’s making the point that a sincere devotee who’s always engaged then even their neophyte they’re pure unalloyed neophyte because their point is is they’re fully engaged with the purpose of developing prema. So they’re a pure unalloyed neophyte. Right? But if they stop that then they’ll just be a neophyte. Right? They won’t have that specialness because they’re fully engaged and really sincerely trying to do it. They may not be very skilled they may not know much philosophy they may not be very do everything properly and know what’s the proper balance but their intent is pure. Does that make sense? So that’s what one’s striving for. Now if you cultivate that in good association then that becomes fixed because the worry in the neophyte is he may be pure today but what about tomorrow? You know? So when you come to the Mudhyo platform then you can basically know that tomorrow also should be pretty good. Yeah. The Chinese Mahayana So is that good?
Okay. Yes.
Yeah.
No. You have to see there’s also the thing is the difference between grouping according to the mode of goodness or pure goodness and grouping according to passion. See? Because goodness is as you see all souls the same but it’s not that you can’t make a distinction in the particular physical, emotional, intellectual capacities or natures. You know? It’s just like you can say in general someone from a particular country or region of the world has some sort of certain kinds of nature but it’s not that the individual that’s specifically you know, that they’re a stereotype. But the problem is is if you think that’s the soul that’s the mode of passion. The mode of goodness is just you know that that’s maybe what the conditioning is but the soul is transcendental. So therefore if it’s the mode of passion so if I have a problem with that I don’t deal with that. If it’s the mode of goodness I may not do things like that but that’s the position they’re in so you deal with them on that platform because that’s the platform that they’re going to engage in Krishna because that’s the conditioning.
So then there’s no problem in dealing with any kind of nature because you know because if you know that’s the nature but aren’t worried about it people don’t have a problem with that. You know what I’m saying? You know if you say okay, Americans are mavericks and they like to you know without any training just go in there and just with their enthusiasm get it done and like that. So most parts many parts of the world they think that’s crazy you know without all the training without all the practice and why would you take it up? But the thing is is they got this confidence that it doesn’t matter if you know anything or not you’ll just do it. And so because of that because so much of success is endeavor and endeavor with confidence so even if they’re doing something not ideal with confidence it still gets a result. So if you say this Americans don’t have a problem with that even though on one sense it’s a good thing on another side it’s a fault. You know continental Europeans would have a problem with this. Like that because they want it you know proper, structured, trained that maturity and the Americans are like get in there and do it hey yeah so the point is so the thing is it’s not a problem in continental Europeans you’re saying okay you know it’s there you get trained there’s a structure there’s authority you move through it very nicely there’s a dignity there’s respect for other people like that they’ll say hey no problem you know but the American might think hey this is getting in the way you know what I’m saying just like the others will say well where’s the form where’s the structure it’s just all feeling you know what I’m saying so it doesn’t matter what it is if you’re not attached to it right or repulsed by it so then it’s a matter of then in that condition how do you engage they probably said okay these Western boys and girls if they don’t build something big here what’s the use of them being Western because Western means we do everything big you know if it’s not big it’s useless you know you’re either first or you’re last right you know so making that so then you know therefore we have a big monster building right does that make sense yeah because then otherwise what’s the meaning you know ISKCON you know Western you know like that you know Vaishnav so then what does that mean big you know and then people are impressed you know what I’m saying people don’t go to the Vatican because it’s the biggest you know what I’m saying but you don’t think of you know what I’m saying but that’s you know oh you have that and the things and the rituals and all that so it brings it down so everyone’s fine with it you know so there’s you go there and the columns are in line right you know that’s the thing that they show you right so the thing is is here but no because here it’s the international so big you know and people expect big if they come and there’s a little dinky thing it’s kind of like what you know but it’s big so then people go okay this is ISKCON you know I’m sorry so that’s the whole point is that you engage the nature and then it’s perfect so that’s the point it doesn’t matter you know Hanuman and his monkey friends it wasn’t that they were necessarily overly refined when they ripped the tops off of mountains you know they come up and you know there’s a mountain oh you first no no no you first so they were doing all that it’s just they go there pick up the mountain and come back with it right does that make sense so it doesn’t matter the point is is if it’s engaged so if you can see that okay persons in this part of the world or in this particular country in that world or from this particular city or even from this particular area in the city you know and then there’s the individual it doesn’t matter as long as you can in grouping you can see what’s the nature so therefore how they can be best completely fully engaged in Krishna service that’s fine but if by grouping then you don’t want to deal then that’s that’s the that’s the mode of passion right so that’s that’s the point is that that’s the the difficulty is that the Vedic externally identifies internally doesn’t the west is like externally tries to not but internally makes a difference so it’s it’s the opposite that’s the mode of ignorance that’s the effect of ignorance and everything gets turned around right so it’s it’s the OK so point being here one is you do what lord Titanya has recommended so that means the instructions are the most important it doesn’t mean that we are not that Vapuh is not there and respect and that you know that attraction and being around is not there but it’s around because this person is giving the instructions Prabhupāda’s special because of the instructions, not that just he has a really cool kind of like old-world Calcutta body. You know, it’s kind of nice to be around. I mean, who’s got ears like that anymore? Right? You know? Does that make sense? That’s not the reason. Or, you know, okay, he’s from, he was from Mahatma Gandhi Road, so that’s aristocratic. He was the best spot, you know, in the place. So, therefore, we want to hang around, he’s the heiress. No, it’s because of his instructions.
Right? Therefore, you try, it means, the vāpu is because of appreciation of instructions. So, that, therefore, comes back. The diksha is respected because of the sikṣa being given. Right? So, it solves so many problems.
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu warned all His followers not to become independent or ipeedit. You know, independent means you make up your own. So, in other words, even you take the vāpu, then the problem is, is you require religion. Right? The conditioned soul requires religion. You have to have, and even the, the, the, who’s not conditioned, there’s a form. Right? Mother Shota wants to do something for Kṛṣṇa. She goes and cooks for Him, or makes clothes for Him, or makes the house nice for Him, or makes some other arrangements like that. But there’s a form in which she does it. Cowherd boys like to go out and wrestle and play and run and, you know, throw things at each other and stuff like that. Steal each other’s lunch. Right? Gopīs like to sing and dance. You understand? So, there’s a form. So, if you don’t use the form that’s given by, that’s recommended, you’ll make up your own.
Does that make sense? Like, there’s a form, you take the water and you throw it, you know, over there. If you don’t use that, then you come behind everybody and throw it on the back of their head. You know what I’m saying? Where’s the form? It says that you should, you know, touch the flower with your head, out of respect. Smell the flowers. It’s a whole meditation. This is Kṛṣṇa’s. Right? And so, then there’s a ritual in the bhakti that takes a flower, you know, you know, hits it on your forehead and then sticks it in your nose. Right? And the rule is, he’s got to stick it in your nose when you are chanting, so you actually can’t breathe in. Because if you do breathe in, all the smell of the flower goes out and no one else gets any smell. So, you know. Does that make sense? You know, these are rules. So, where did that come from? You know, people have made it up. And most of the time, you go to every temple and they do that. Where did that come from? We created that. You understand? So, the point is, if you don’t follow what’s the tradition given by the ācārya, you’ll make up your own. People complain about tradition, but they’ll make up their own. Right? Does that make sense? Those who are opposed to the Vedic ritualistic elements or cultural elements, you’ll find their personal life is very ritualistic in the way that they live it. It’s very specific.
So, all it is is, you know, they don’t like this one, you know, they like this one, they don’t like that one. So, that’s the whole point Lord Caitanya is making. Don’t make them up. Don’t think that you can make them up. Follow in the footsteps of the ācāryas. So, here Lord Caitanya said to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Right? Don’t make up your own. Well, Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa, so therefore it’s non-different. Kṛṣṇa says, yes, it is true, but that’s not what Lord Caitanya said to do. It is true that Lord Caitanya is the combined form of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So, therefore chanting His name to get the benefit, you know, of that. So, why do we have to do something different? So, I’ll chant japa of, you know, Pañca -tattva-maha-mantra, but Lord Caitanya didn’t say to do that.
You know what I’m saying? Yes.
Then don’t bother, as long as they’re not trying to convince you to do it also. Oh, just tell them, you know, that that’s, you know, tell them, great, you know, nice, you know, I appreciate it and all that. But, um…
Not necessarily. It depends whether they’re telling you to do it, if it’s good or not. If they’re saying that you should stand on your head and chant japa, and, you know, get some blood to the head, and be in good focus, and everything like that. Yeah, then, then that, you just, you know, excuse yourself. There’s always, there’s always plenty of other things to do, and places to go, people to see, you know, the whole thing. You know, in other words, what areas you can associate with them nicely, associate there, and where they start to get a little strange, then don’t.
All right. In Kirtan, many times, devotees do chant, Go Ranga, Go Ranga, but that’s… It’s a spice that comes up now and again. It’s just like, let’s say, you have a festival like now, all the devotees get together. So, there’s a lot of devotees, it’s a festival, and sometimes, just spontaneously, something unique comes up. But, that person who did it may not ever do it again, or maybe at another festival, after six months, something comes up, it happens again. Right? The problem is, is the brahmacharis that were at the festival watched it, thought, that’s cool, and now they do it every day, no matter what’s going on. That’s the problem.
You know what I’m saying? So, why do you ritualize that? You know, you’re supposed to do this, and then everybody… Because, otherwise, then it turns into… It’s just like, sometimes, you see Kirtan groups, you know, that are, you know, just in Bengal and that, and they know the things that make people inspired. So, they externally do it, and because everyone knows that’s the thing of getting excited, then everybody follows along. But, if you look at it, it looks like they’re doing the things that are ecstatic, but they’re not. It’s not actually ecstatic.
You know what I’m saying? Because, you just get into the external form.
You know, because they’re sensitive to these things, so they’ll notice. If you’re not sensitive, then it’s, in one sense, harder to establish these kind of things as ritualistic. You’ll establish whatever you are sensitive to as ritualistic.
You know what I’m saying?
Unfortunately, after the disappearance of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, many apasampradayas, so-called followers, invented many ways not approved by the acaryas. Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself indicates herein that all such attempts would simply spoil the spirit of His cult. Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 1.269 purport.
And, as Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport to Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila 12.8, when the inheritors of the spiritual master’s assets fight bitterly over property rights to land and temples, and thus lay waste to the whole mission by their endless litigation, they simply emulate the feuding spirit long seen amongst the jat-gosad. The congregations of such quarrelsome Kali-yuga Vaishnavas lose faith and look elsewhere for spiritual guidance, perhaps, unfortunately, to something far worse. Because at least it’s presented nicely, you know. Like that, people are fighting, there’s so much tension, people are this, that. But these people are very nice, they’re peaceful, they sit down and have some very nice music playing, they talk very nicely. And, you know, the arrangements are very aesthetic and all this kind of things like that. And, you know, now and again they also bring some yogi guy from India and he comes and gives some lectures. It’s all so nice and everybody, you know, works together, lives together. So, that’s what he’s talking about. So, that could be the primary loss. So many people will lose the opportunity to actually have the… Yes, because the point is, is what are facilities for? Right. It’s not that you have facilities, it’s what you do with facilities. So, the point is, is you’re supposed to be doing whatever you’re supposed to do with facilities, whether you have facilities or not. Like, I remember once, you were in Hong Kong, I said, yeah, punched a meter myself. So, it’s two people, Hari and Nam, right. And somehow or another, because I’m in the Brahmacharya, I’m supposed to get all this stuff together, right. And so, you know, being spaced out, I forgot, I think, car tolls, right. And so, then we’re going along and then, so he says, start the kirtan. So, then, in my mind, you can’t start the kirtan, there’s no car tolls. He said, clap your hands. And it’s just, it took me a while. What do you mean, clap your hands? But they’re not car tolls, you know. It’s kind of like, you know, he really had to preach for a while to convince, no, no, you clap hands, it makes nice, it keeps beat, and then, you know, it works. And then, he had the mridanga, and so, it’s like, wow, real revelations.
The thing is, is you don’t have facilities, it still works. But the point of having facilities is to use them, not to have them. So, here is, you know, is talking about that people fighting over a facility, not to use them, but to have them. And the point is, is they’re going to be engaged in Krishna’s service, so it doesn’t really matter who has it, but who can make the best out of it. That’s ideally, who should have them.
Does that make sense? That would be the case. Let’s say, okay, there’s a bigger van and a smaller van, so that those group of devotees that can sell more books, they get the bigger one. You know, the ones that do less, they get the smaller one. You know, it’s not a matter of prestige or anything, it’s a matter of who can use it.
History shows that the questionable activities of the caste Goswamis drove untold numbers of simple Bengali folk into the arms of charlatan avatars, espousing reform. In other words, the secret behind the charisma of many of the other apasampradayas lay in their independence from the jada-gosai’s, astafai’s, and uninspiring establishment Vaishnavism.
Right? Because this is the thing, is the one’s unimpressed by the establishment, then one looks to something else that looks personal, and looks this and that. But that’s the point, is that the establishment only has meaning because of the individuals within the establishment. Establishment means a group of individuals. Right? So that’s the whole point. If it’s personal, then the individuals are seen, at the same time they can cooperate together as an establishment.
So here it’s a matter of, no, if I have the position, nobody else can have the position, right? Because that one caste Goswami is that he somehow or another took control, because it was everybody in the family was the caste, it was the Goswami. But they made it that, no, only him and his sons were the caste Goswamis, and everybody else wasn’t. So the point is, is it’s not about who’s in control in that, it’s about using things for Krishna’s service. Does that make sense? Management is naturally part of the positions, naturally part of the thing, but part of the natural working.
You know, these bogus alternative movements became prominent within two centuries of Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s departure, right? Because then your traditional Vaishnavism wasn’t, and organization wasn’t attractive, so these others looked attractive. That’s the difficulty.
And grew unchecked until Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur re -established the Samkirtan mission with his Visva-Vaishnav Rajya Sabha.
So again, bringing it back to the position. Because it’s an organization, there’s no such thing as no organization, right? Even if you say, well I’ll just sit under a tree and chant, but there’s a good chance you’ll have a little dinky organization around your tree, right? I remember one devotee, he was a yogi before joining, I mean a serious yogi, not one of these sit around, he’s one of these, you know, he had like, you know, like 12 years of hair on his head, you know, just walks around in kopans and lives in the forest in a tree, and all he does is meditate all day. Now, because you’re living in a tree, the problem is that, you know, while you’re meditating, you’re pretty, how do you say, an obvious target for things like tigers and other things like that, so you have to build a little hut thing, right? And it was interesting, he says the door goes on the bottom, one it’s easy to get in, but two is you sit on it, because, you know, the tiger will climb up the tree and, you know, try to see how to get in, so if he can get in, then, you know, you’re a monk, but you sit on the door so he can’t get in, right? But now, because he’s sitting in the trees and you’re hanging out there and you’re there for a long time, so after years, the monkeys, you know, they can start to relate to you, so after a while, he’d go out and collect fruit, the monkeys would be there collecting fruit, you know, like that, because everybody, you know, it’s where the fruit is, where you go, so after a while, the monkeys, because they have a nice relationship, they would collect fruit and bring it to him, so he could, you know, he could sit in his tree there and everything like that, and the monkeys bring him stuff, okay? So now, is that not an organization?
Maybe a small organization, but it’s an organization, yeah, hierarchy, you know, he’s the big monkey, you know, they look at him and say, well, we don’t have that much hair on our head, you know, like that, you know, so that’s the whole point, is there’ll always be this idea, no institution is bad, there’ll always be an institution, but it means what marriage is classified as an institution, but any kind of matter is an institution, simply means where you have agreed upon form, so that many people can cooperate together to get whatever is the goal of that institution done, that’s all, so you can’t live without them, so this idea, all the institution, this institution, that’s a useless conversation, because they’ll always be, the point is, is the direction proper, is the attitude proper, because there’s no problem with anything, if the attitude’s right, and even the best thing, if the attitude’s wrong, there’s a problem, right, the guy’s doing the kirtan, it’s a fabulous, he’s got a great voice, plays madanga, his kartal players are doing everything, it’s all in beat, it’s, you know, the right speed, the right everything, but the attitude, they’re really proud of it, are we doing a great kirtan, it doesn’t have any taste, even though it’s actually technically perfect, so the point is, is it’s not actually technique, we put too much emphasis on technique, it’s on the attitude, now, if the attitude is correct, then naturally, because it’s for Krishna, you want to use the best technique, right, does that make sense, but you don’t have to wait for your attitude to be perfect, to develop technique, because technique takes time, this is attitude takes time, so you cultivate them both together, but one should always know, is attitude’s primary, technique’s secondary, that’s the problem, is when they go the other way around, then, then that’s sort of the problem, so that means nothing’s a problem, if it’s got the right attitude, and anything can be a problem, if the attitude’s wrong, yes, no, that’s there, because then that supports, so then how, then technique supports attitude by giving confidence, but which is primary, but, but the confidence coming from that, but the point is, is then you’re confident, then what will you do with the confidence, it’s just then you can show off your technique, or you’ll have the right attitude, yeah, the point is, is it’s always secondary, the guy is a billionaire, right, he dresses well, great cars, you know, fabulous house, and you know, you know, like that, and not only that, it’s all over, he’s got one in London, he’s got one in Paris, he’s got one in Monte Carlo, New York, LA, you know, he’s got one in the Bahamas, one in Bali, you know, Milan, of course, so then, you know, okay, like that, he dresses, he’s smooth speaker, everything like that, he has all this money, and everything like that, but at the same time, he actually doesn’t know how to live with anybody, he’s only used to his money for a girl, no, so it’s not facility, he’s got confidence, it’s the right attitude, if you have the right attitude, then even if you don’t have this proper skill, then you’ll have the confidence, I’ll try for Krishna, because the point is this, if it goes wrong, what’s the problem? What will happen if I do the activity, and it doesn’t work out so well, what am I worried about?
Right, so then, so then, you understand?
Yeah, so, but the point is, is if it’s about that, oh, well, Krishna won’t get a good result, so then, okay, it’s like that, now, how do you know Krishna didn’t give a good result? Everybody told you it was stupid, okay, so now, what are the things they said were stupid? Okay, correct those, then your technique will improve, then you get a better result for Krishna, so therefore, then, it doesn’t matter if the attitude’s right, and the skill’s not, the skill will develop, because you want the result for Krishna, but if there’s no ego, then you’ll be able to adjust it very much, otherwise, then, if it’s bad, let’s say you have, you know, ego, but you don’t have the confidence, okay, and you don’t have the skill, okay, okay, so you don’t have the confidence, so what will you do? Nothing, nothing, okay, now, let’s say you have the confidence, but not the skill, and people have criticized, what will you do?
Huh, no, but you have attitude, right, you have that false ego, you fight back, you make your own philosophy, you try to prove how your bad technique is actually perfect, you understand, so, so, both of them are useless, one, you think that my activity, that’s perfection, the other is that, well, if my activity isn’t perfection, I’m not going to do it, see, it’s still false ego, you know, sometimes, you take it, the person lacks confidence, is he doesn’t have false ego, he’s humble, no, he’s actually got as much false ego as the other guy, it’s like, you know, in other words, you, you know, you pick up the cartels, the first kirtan, already people are melting and falling on the ground, when you finish the kirtan, you know, they’re cheering and picking you up, and everything goes into slow motion, you know, they call you out in the temple room, and like that, like that, so if that’s not going to happen, you’re not leading kirtan, right, and that’s false ego, does that make sense, that’s false ego, that’s all, that’s it, yeah, it’s not that, well, that one’s plus 10, and this is minus 1, no, it’s minus 10, you know, so, when they say, well, I can’t lead kirtan, then, if you want to know what’s the plus, you know, how much minus it is, ask, well, it means, well, who do you think leads good kirtan, you know what I’m saying, and if they say, you know, oh, you know, that, that new bhakta, he does it nice, so that means, then it’s, you know, that’s plus 1, and so it’s only minus 1, you know, and if they name one of the big main kirtaners in the society, then, you know, it’s minus 100, like that, you know, yes, okay, oh, it’s already time, okay, okay, okay, so, tomorrow, the last paragraph, hopefully, you get through it, and then we move on to smartness, okay, that’ll finish, go, cast, go swamis, and we’ll go to the smartness.
Shrila Prabhupada ki jaya, samaveda bhakti vindaki, jaya, samveda gaura prabhupada. Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna.
