Apasampradāyas #8

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This is the classroom. Yeah, I think it stands out. Like that or the other one?

Again, okay. One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaiṣṇava.

As Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has confirmed, cārya vaiṣṇava -seva niṣṭhara pāye ca kevalam. One cannot be in a transcendental position unless one very faithfully serves a pure Vaiṣṇava.

The point is this. Kṛṣṇa is only pleased He’s served by the devotees. That’s the whole point. Kṛṣṇa expands so that He can interact with the devotees. And so if there’s no service to Vaiṣṇavas, there actually isn’t service to Kṛṣṇa. There is no such thing as direct service to Kṛṣṇa. It doesn’t exist. It means, for Rādhārāṇī, yes. But the point is that she is the surukṣakti, so she is all energies. So naturally to improve her service, everybody is expanded, all the different potencies are expanded. Because if you’re going to interact with Kṛṣṇa, where are you going to interact? Right? You need some place. So that has to be manifest. Right? And so it’s not we’re creating the place. We’re not the potency of the place. Right? So that potency has to be there. Right? There have to be activities. There have to be things that one thinks, this is service. Right? Why is it decided that, you know, you should smile and be nice? Who’s decided that? Does that make sense? This has all been established by the Lord’s potency. So all these things are all there. So without serving the devotees, there actually is no question of any service.

So therefore, then the point’s being made here, Prabhupāda’s making this point, that simply one should not think that one can understand transcendental, you know, service, loving service, simply by reading. Because the point is, as you’ve read, then you may get some idea. But unless you actually serve with devotees, you won’t actually understand it. Because you see them serving, you see the mood, all those different things. Because it’s by association that one develops prema. One doesn’t just develop prema on one’s own. It’s through the association of the Lord’s associates that you develop prema. They have prema, so where are you going to get it from? From them. Does that make sense? It’s not, I do something, therefore I get. That’s called karma. Right? Or, I study it, I’ll understand it, therefore I’ll get. That’s called jñāna.

Right? No. It’s by pleasing the devotees, then one gets prema.

That’s just how it works. There is no such thing as doing anything on your own. So therefore, one has to have the association of devotees. That’s why the association of devotees is taken so important. If we just take that point of devotees, what’s one of the outstanding characteristics of the neophyte? He doesn’t see devotees. He doesn’t appreciate devotees. Right? And advancement is determined by the appreciation of devotees. And what’s the viewpoint of the uttamādhikārī? She’s everybody’s devotee. There’s only devotees. Right? It’s just a matter of whether they know it or not, but they’re all devotees. So, this is a very, very major point. Right? It’s a side point that the neophyte doesn’t know śāstra so well, the uttamādhikārī, you can’t defeat him in discussion. Does that make sense?

Like that. That’s also an important element. But the one how you’re going to advance is not, okay, if I study more, then I’ll advance. No, that you’re trying to study and learn about Kṛṣṇa. That’ll be pleasing to Kṛṣṇa. But it’s not because you know more, that’s why you know Kṛṣṇa. Because that’s not jñāna. It’s a matter of pleasing. So, how do we please the Lord? We please the Lord through pleasing the devotees. Because the reason that we’re manifest is because Kṛṣṇa expanded to interact with the devotees. So, if we don’t understand interacting with devotees is important, we’ve missed the whole point of why we’re here.

Does that make sense?

Yes. Some devotees are very easily pleased and some are not. Should we really try hard to please the devotees that it’s not easily… As we were discussing yesterday, if it’s within your duty, then yes. If it’s not within your duty, then it’s not necessarily important.

You know what I’m saying? In other words, if you meet somebody, then you try to interact as nicely as possible. But then an interaction is only as much as necessary for having met. You know what I’m saying? Let us say you’re doing service. So, if you’re working with somebody, then everything going nicely depends upon that proper interaction. Then you’ll make more of an endeavor. If you’re not serving with them, then other than just when you meet them being pleasant, you don’t have to go out of your way to try to… Because otherwise, there’s devotees all over the planet. So, it’s just those that you are actually associated with. But at the same time, you can also pick. Because there’s association of the service and there’s also out of your standard, how do you say, regulated service of you have this basically kind of like an occupation. I don’t mean it’s an occupation of making money, but let’s say, okay, this one dresses the deities, this one cooks for the deities. It’s like within Pancharatra, it’s your prescribed duty. Then you have your sadhana.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So, the thing is within the prescribed duty, then therefore, it’s not so much necessarily you’re making a choice. It’s whoever you end up with. Though you may have the opportunity of choice, but that’s not the important aspect there. It’s whoever you’re serving with that you have to deal. You’re performing your sadhana, you know, just there in the general group, then you have to behave. But then, outside of that, how you would spend your time, who would you associate with, that’s fully your choice. So that, then you’d be very careful that it’s like-minded persons who you feel, you know, who are more advanced. Does that make sense?

Yes. If it’s your service and your duty to deliver knowledge to others, then that attainment of that knowledge is part of your service. Then you gain Realization by doing service to others. Yes, but it’s hearing and chanting. It’s that you hear things, and then what you understand, and then you explain, you know, or discuss. And through that, then you get more understanding.

It depends upon how you’re doing it. So if the service is discussing philosophy or preaching philosophy, then it is. If you think that just by reading and thinking about it, without applying it, then that would be more towards kyana.

But then that’s the service, you understand? So it means tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya. Right? So pranipatena, you have the desire to know. Pariprasna, you inquire. Sevaya, you apply it. So if you’re applying the knowledge by preaching it, then the two are together. So the discussion of the philosophy and the application of service are the same. But if it’s a matter of, you know, I should be more conscious when I serve, then you have to do service and try to be conscious while you’re doing it. You understand?

The jnanis, they generally sit around and just discuss philosophy, but it’s not a matter of, they’re trying to apply it in devotional service. They’re just trying to know.

It’s important to them. It means, you know, you can go to places where scholars hang out, and what do they do? They just sit around and talk. They don’t do anything. That’s why they never get paid much.

You know what I’m saying? You take the same guy, open a consultancy, and he makes hundreds of thousands of dollars. Right? But if he sits down at the university in his armchair and just blabs, you know, they pay him a few thousand dollars. Because nothing’s getting done.

How is it service? He’s blabbing what the university wants him to blab. Where’s the service?

Yeah, okay, but I just didn’t give the other one, because I didn’t think you’d understand that there’s a very large, large building over on the bank of the Dashramedha Ghat, and in there there’s, you know, huge open verandas and everything, and it’s filled full of sannyasis who are discussing Vedanta in Sanskrit. I didn’t think that would necessarily ring a bell.

But everybody’s been there, that’s why you’re here.

Whoever’s sitting here, it’s been there, done that.

So… Okay. One must accept a Vaiṣṇava guru, a Dāgura of Āśrayam, and then, by questions and answers, one should gradually learn what pure devotional service to Kṛṣṇa is. Gradually learn, because it’s a matter of, one, is there’s unlimited aspects, and two, you have to apply it. Right? It means you’re going to… Here, you’re going to apply, you get that realization, then you’re able to understand more. Because there’s only a certain capacity that mundane intelligence can handle. It’s not by how great your memory is, it’s how great your realization is.

That is called the paramparā system. Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Antya-līlā, 753, purport.

A real brāhmaṇa is never envious of a Vaiṣṇava. If he is, he is considered an imperfect neophyte. Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 15.2.77, purport. Because perfect means you appreciate devotees. Imperfect means you don’t understand the importance of devotees. You think that just by knowledge, just by your own rituals, your own practices, that’s enough. You actually have to have the association of devotees. That’s why the sadhu-saṅga, that’s why when the ācāryas establish a mission, it’s all about association.

Does that make sense? So much of the time it’s looked at, oh, it’s an institution.

But the point is, if it’s an institution by Kṛṣṇa, what’s the problem? The word institution has a bad connotation because of institutions that are simply based on making money.

Is anybody worried about an institution for bird -watching?

You understand? It’s ones that make money that get the bad name. Because then, oh, it’s just institutional, no one cares about the individual, this and that. But the whole point is this, why do the ācāryas establish an institution? That means institutions were there a long time before the Westerners made a mess out of them.

So an institution means an opportunity for people to be able, in a regulated way, to have association. So it’s regulated, it’s progressive.

Then, of course, because there’s so many people, you have to make arrangements for that. So then you have to have things that are going to be beneficial. That means kīrtans, deity worship, prasādam, practical service. So what does that require?

Management. So in other words, the management is there to see that the institution of Vaiṣṇava saṅgha in devotional service goes on. It doesn’t have its own life. If it takes on its own life, then of course, then it takes on the qualities of modern institutions that have a problem, because they think the management’s more important.

Does that make sense? Yes. Can you explain, historically speaking, the Rāmānujas and Madhvacāryas, since they had a very well-established institution and structure, and so did Śaṅkarācārya?

Isn’t it that with the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, it only started with bhakti-siddhi, precisely? No, it was always there before, but when you add in the preaching element, that’s when you have to have more of an institutional kind of thing. But Rūpa Goswāmī started it with the Viṣṇu Vaiṣṇava Rajya-sabha. So that means that there is association with the Vaiṣṇavas, and there’s someone who is responsible to see that that association goes on properly. So that’s what Bhakti-siddhanta Saraswati Thakur would call the president of the Viṣṇu Vaiṣṇava Rajya -sabha. So Rūpa Goswāmī’s the first, Jīva Goswāmī’s the second, Krishna dasa Kavirāja, then Narottam, Vishwanath, Jagannath, Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Gaurakasura dasa Babaji, Bhakti-siddhanta Saraswati Thakur. Like this, it comes down, like that. So in other words, they’re prominent because they’re seeing that the standard of Vaiṣṇava association and understanding is there.

So it’s always been there. But because of simplicity, the bhajan and things like that, then they’re taking care of themselves. They go out begging, they have their own sadhana. So they come together basically just for discussing the philosophy. So what’s going on there? You have a lot of quite mature people. They’re there because they’re interested in spiritual life. With Bhakti-siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, then you’re actually going out and catching people that didn’t actually think, I’m going to become a devotee today.

With these others, you hear these stories of previous ācāryas and their approach by people who think, I want to become a devotee, I want to find a teacher. So they go looking. But the other person, he just got up and just happened to be going down to his favorite shop to get his coffee. Then he bumps into the devotees. It was not planned. So for that, then it’s required to have a mission because they don’t necessarily know what they want and this and that. So you have to have a form in which, in a very regulated way, you’re performing all the progressive aspects of devotional service. So in other words, up to Bhakti-siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, the primary focus was on the Bhagavata. But with Bhakti-siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, then the Pancharatrik is strongly introduced. In other words, the central form is Pancharatrik as opposed to Bhagavata. So that’s what you see with Ramanuja and Madhva and Shankara. Then it’s Pancharatrik. That’s why it has the form. The form that we have, Mandalartik, chanting, then Darshan, circumambulating the deities, Charinamrita, accepting the flowers and garlands and all that, hearing Bhagavatam, taking prasad. That’s Pancharatrik. That’s the Pancharatrik schedule. Like that. That’s just standard Pancharatrik schedule.

Then after breakfast, you have your duties that you do during the day. Then again, there’s the evening programs and discussions and then putting the deities to rest. So that’s how Pancharatrik works. And then there’ll be pajaris who, during the day, taking care of the deity is their service. But others would be managing the temple, cleaning the temple, cooking, doing all these other aspects. So the Pancharatrik gives that fixed form. So all it is is that devotees don’t understand that that’s why it’s fixed. It’s because of Pancharatrik. They’ll think it’s because of management. But it’s not. It’s just that Bhagavat doesn’t need management much. A little bit, but not hardly anything. Pancharatrik needs management. Vedic needs the most. Because Pancharatrik means everything connected with the deity. So therefore, we don’t necessarily look at it so much as management because you’re just managing the deity worship, book distribution, the kirtans and preaching, Harinam, those kind of things like that. The brahmachari ashram, that aspect. But as soon as then, when you add community, you add grihasthas, you add community, that’s when the Vedic comes in. So then that’s your choice. Because Pancharatra is Pancharatra. Everybody does everything according to Pancharatra. But as soon as you add the Vedic, then is the point of whether you want to use the Vedic or the modern.

As a culture, as management, as association, as all that. Because when you’re dealing with Bhagavat, it’s not that you can go down and pick up a book on how these different gurus in the success world are talking about better ways of chanting the holy names or nicer Vaishnava association or how to make your deity worship work for you.

Does that make sense?

Pajaras, yeah, the one-minute pajara.

It’s only when you drop down to the social, then you can either use Vedic or try to use modern.

Is that okay? Yes. So the point is often made that you want protected social and there is no social structure. Where is it coming from? That’s coming because the Westerners have never actually been good at that. Is there a Magna Carta for India?

Is there a universal Bill of Rights? No. But the West has to have them. Why? Because there is no concept that administration means protection. It’s just the two words don’t go together.

Maybe business and protection, but not administration and protection.

Some understand it who really work in the field, but otherwise it’s not generally a known thing. So because of that, then there is no concept of that you can have managers that are actually nice.

They are not sure if it’s real or if it’s just imagination.

You know King Arthur.

They are not really sure if it was real or not because here you have a king who everything was nice and wonderful and pleasant and he had his ministers and he was a great king and all that. His family life had a bit of problem, but otherwise his administration was good. And so that part of it means, because that part of it they are not sure is there. His bad family life, that generally is the main focus of the stories. Because that they can relate to. The other thing, they wouldn’t know how it runs nicely.

So that’s the difficulty. So that element we don’t feel protected and this and that, but how are you using the word protected in the first place? Do the Karmis say that?

Do they use that terminology in their speech? No. Because we have heard about it from Prabhupada, but the solution we are not taking.

So then that’s the difficulty. Because the Vedic system, if it’s followed, then everybody is taken care of. Because your duties are someone else’s rights.

You don’t have to separately establish rights.

That’s the thing. Because if you are going to establish rights, that’s fine, that’s great. But it means in the Vedic approaches, what are everybody’s duties? But you could take the inverse. Okay, what are everybody’s rights? But then you have to have, okay, what are the people’s rights? What are the government’s rights? What’s the husband’s rights? What’s the wife’s rights? What’s the parent’s rights? What’s the children’s rights? What’s the teacher’s rights? What’s the student’s rights? What’s the businessman’s rights? What’s the customer’s rights? What’s the government’s rights connected with business? You know what I’m saying? What’s the traveler’s rights? What’s the proprietor’s rights? Then if you do all that, then you’ve established all the rules, but in the inverse. It’s my rights rather than what are my obligations. If I say my obligations, the rights are automatically established.

It’s my right not to have to pay too much tax. Why is that? Because it’s the obligation of the government not to take too much tax. You know what I’m saying? Just all it is is it’s about me rather than about sacrifice. So that’s the thing is the modern is about myself. But it’s called liberal because that’s the worried about the individual. Yeah, but who’s the individual you’re worried about? Yourself, right? Now, why should I be worried? Okay, he’s an individual. He’s not being dealt with nicely. Why should that affect me on one level? Okay, I feel bad. I have the sense of extended, you know, that’s extended that selfless materialism. So therefore, there may be a softness there that they’re suffering. But what’s the real underlying point? Why I would be worried that this individual is not being dealt with in a just way. Because if it happens to them, it could happen to me. So therefore, no, we have to have this because that’s an area that you value that it doesn’t happen to you. Because there’s so many things going on in justice. How many things people care about? You know, if you get all the news of what’s going on in the judicial field in the world, most of it people couldn’t care less about.

You know? Like, there’s been court cases on whether the person in the city could keep a pig as a pet. Because a pig’s a farm animal, and farms therefore have to be a certain distance outside the city limit. So therefore, farm animals can’t be kept as pets. So there have been court cases of, you know, such and such against the state, this particular state, because they want their pig in their house.

Does that make sense? Does anybody care? No. Like that. Yeah, so that’s the point, is that it’s only those things where you have a value, that’s what you’re worried about. You know? The boss didn’t deal with him nicely because I want the boss to deal with me nicely. You know, it’s not that, well, the boss didn’t deal with him nicely, but the guy is a bit of a jerk, so, you know, he kind of deserves it. But I’m not going to say that because then the point is, is I’m worried about the principle of the boss not dealing nicely. Does that make sense? So even though I don’t really like the person, you know, but we have a common enemy, the boss. You know? Does that make sense? So that’s the thing. So therefore, enemies become allies when they have a common enemy.

Does that make sense? It means I’m on the south side of a kingdom, and so the kingdom to the north is my enemy, right? Or I have to worry about them, right? Then there’s a kingdom on the north of that same kingdom. So therefore, the one to the south of them, which is the one to the north of me, is their enemy. So what does that make the kingdom to the south and the kingdom to the north? Allies, because now they have a common enemy.

So that’s all that’s going on in the modern. There’ll be some feelings, but if you go deep enough, it’s always going to get down to the individual. But you don’t want to do that too much because it unnerves most people. Most people can’t actually handle who they are and what’s their actual motive, so they have to keep it all very nice and pleasant.

Although posing as great scholars, ascetics, householders, and swamis, the so-called followers of the Hindu religion are all useless, dried-up branches of the Vedic religion.

Great scholars, ascetics, householders, and swamis, right? They are impotent. They cannot do anything to spread the Vedic culture for the benefit of human society. So now what has been pointed out, this is very important in this thing, so that you target what’s being meant here exactly. What is useless? Why are they impotent?

Is he complaining about what they’re doing is in the way of a lifestyle or rituals? No, that’s very important to know, because most people take it, oh, it’s useless, then the whole Vedic culture is useless. It’s not about that. It’s about that they’re not actually understanding Krishna consciousness.

As we mentioned before, our complaint about the smarter Brahmins is not the Brahmin part, it’s the smarter part, that they just follow the rules and think just by that everything’s perfect, not that there’s a point to following the rules, other than what benefit I’m going to get.

They cannot do anything to spread the Vedic culture for the benefit of human society. That’s the problem. They can’t spread it. What’s happening in the modern so-called remnants of the Vedic culture? It’s degrading more and more. Why? Because they can’t spread it. Why not? Because they don’t know why they’re doing it themselves. They have a sentiment for it and all that. That’s pious. That’s good. Better to be favorable to the Vedic culture than opposed to it. If you’re favorable, at least in these days, you’re a Hindu, right? Or at least pious. If you’re not favorable, then the technical term is called Yavana. Like that. You understand? Always be careful when you oppose the Vedic culture, because there is a term for that. So the point is they don’t know.

That’s the problem. If one knows, then one can spread. If you know why you’re doing it, what are the benefits, then you can spread it. So why is it before persons like Madhavan, Ramanuja, Shankara could spread Vedic culture? Because they understood what it was for.

Does that make sense? You don’t understand, you can’t spread it. Yes. Isn’t there a difference between us being born in India and feeling the need to spread the culture within your own land, as opposed to feeling that the whole world needs it?

But I mean you’re saying the whole world needs it inherently just because you’re doing it? Well, that’s a problem. I understood. No, but that’s different than, let’s say, above the Rio Grande and south of Canada. That’s just because we’re doing it, the whole world should do it. Right. But why would the Hindus even know they understand? But they don’t even know how to explain it to their own people. So the point is that you understand its connection to God. God’s important, so it’s God’s world. The Vedic culture is God’s culture. It means, of course, academics like to reduce it down to it’s just India, and then there’s India and there’s the West, so therefore what’s the difference between one country and another? We’re in charge now, so we’re the big guys. If Africa took over, then we kind of have to listen to them. It’s just whoever’s the big guys, that’s who it is. So the point is that in none of this it’s saying that there’s an absolute truth. It’s just I’m from this country, I like doing this, and therefore that’s the way it should be. Of course, we can be a bit eclectic and accommodating to the world, and I appreciate ethnic things. Don’t you notice that I have very nicely glazed, of course, because it’s not like that actually in the original African village where it was from, but I have it sitting on my side table there, and over there you’ll notice that there’s the very nicely done, and nice colors and everything like that, the kind of like that poncho from Peru and everything like that. And then over here, of course, we have our oriental kind of collection of things. It’s all nice there, but what’s my lifestyle? My lifestyle is exactly the lifestyle of my country. All I do is add these in as flavor. You have your meal, you put a little lemon on it or a little Tabasco sauce, or something you put to add, but it’s still the same meal. So the point is, I don’t actually see the universal laws here, that it’s God’s country, it’s God’s universe, and so there’s laws of the universe of how God wants it done. Understanding that, that’s how you can preach it. Otherwise, it’s not that there aren’t Hindus preaching Hindutva. They’re out there foaming at the mouth like everybody else is doing. But the point is, unless you understand what it’s actually for, you can’t really spread it. That’s the point. So therefore he’s making this point. The essence of the Vedic culture is the message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

And that is, Lord Caitanya instructed, jari dekha, tarikaha, krsna-upadesa, amar-ajna-guruhai, tara-edesha, Caitanya-caritamrta-madhya-lila, 7.128. He wants you to simply instruct everyone he meets regarding the principles of Krishna-katha, as expressed in Bhagavad-gita, as it is in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

So that’s the point that they’re not doing. So Hinduism is not about God consciousness. It’s just about being Hindu. It’s just a religion. It’s not sadharma. They talk about sanatana-dharma, but they’re actually only preaching dharma. Sanatana-dharma means taking that dharma, connecting it to God. Then it’s sanatana-dharma. So that’s the difficulty in spreading it. You may make some inroads, and then it falls apart again. You know, make some more inroads, and it falls apart. Someone was just telling me yesterday, it was interesting. Somehow a conversation came up about Bollywood movies. Oh yeah, the person was in television. That’s their service. They run a Krishna-conscious television network. And somehow or another, I don’t know how it got into it, but Bollywood movies came up about how degraded they are. And so then he was explaining, he was Indian descent, he was explaining that it was actually a decision on the part of the government, because the Indian government is very strict on censorship.

So for the movies to be the way they are now means they had to loosen the censorship.

But it was done specifically because it had gotten to the point where people were becoming more modernized, so their taste in movies had changed. So now the choice was this. Do they now all go to Hollywood movies, and therefore all the money goes there? Or does Bollywood change that whatever they’re looking for in Hollywood, they get, and it’s in Hindi, it’s in their own language, and then the money stays here. So the government made the decision to support Bollywood. Because otherwise it’s just going to be a fight to keep it out, plus you make money.

So therefore you make inroads on one side, and then lose it on another side. So that’s always going to be because you don’t really know what things are, So the majority of Bollywood movies are just remakes of the Hollywood ones. Yeah, of course.

You know, or two or three put together. That’s what people say.

So could you say really that it boils down to establishing the supremacy of Lord Krishna?

You can say that, but if you want to make it more general to a Hindu, then the supremacy of Vishnu. Supremacy of Vishnu. Otherwise everyone’s God, and therefore the Dharma has no substance. It doesn’t have any substance. It’s pious in that they accept authority, they’re accepting Vedic literatures, a little smattering of various rituals or sacrifice they do. But the problem is it doesn’t work, and especially now, as we mentioned before, the Vedic is why it’s focused on duties or obligations. It’s because then the sense of sacrifice is there, while the modern is on right, so it’s self-centered. So you can see just from that, even if you put it into that context, even someone from a more enlightened Western experience will say that self-centered materialism is of a lesser character than selfless materialism. So automatically you see that there’s a superiority of the culture. But it’s not that people don’t use the superior culture for their own interior purposes. You know, that’s always going to be there, that’s just the way the world is. But the ideal then has to be appreciated. So when one sees, so that’s why then if we’re going to, it’s for others’ benefit, then that welfare activity, then the highest welfare is teaching one somewhat about their relationship with God. Because otherwise, what is the other thing? I’m creating a relationship between somebody without food and food, or a relationship between a person without a mosquito net and having malaria with a mosquito net, right? Or someone who’s sick with medicine. So that’s what welfare is, is you’re establishing a relationship. Though it’s not looked at that, it’s more about I’ve given in charity, so look at me, I’ve done a whole big thing. I’m pious, I’m nice.

Or the thing that they’re getting benefited. But how are they getting benefited is their relationship with. So therefore the highest welfare is their relationship with God. So sometimes devotees even get bewildered, oh, we’re not doing any welfare work. What do you mean? By the actual definition of welfare, we’re doing the highest. Because they don’t see, they even still see welfare as impersonal.

It’s not the personal establishment of relationship.

Does that make sense? Yes, so therefore one can’t compare them as one thing. Okay, if I take the element of sacrifice that I am, or let’s say charity, that I’m giving something in charity, and therefore connecting that charity that the other person has that, that sharing with them, if you take it from sharing, then you can share some money, share some food, share some clothes, or share God consciousness. All the others are important but temporary. God consciousness is important and eternal, therefore it’s more important. And then you’re making that relationship connection with, but the point is these others are temporary, so how much can you establish that? But God consciousness, once that’s established, it doesn’t matter the situation, whether it’s food or no food, clothes or no clothes, you can still be God conscious. So that’s why that’s the highest welfare. So it’s very easy to preach that. I mean some people ask me, what welfare work are you doing? Explain how it’s welfare. But devotees don’t explain this is the highest welfare. They just say, oh yes, yes, no, no, we have food for life.

You know, but food for life is still, its importance is you’re giving God consciousness. You’re giving devotional service. Not that, oh, we’re doing this because it’s food. That’s where you’ll see the difference.

It’s being done because the people are getting the spiritual benefit, they’ll have a very different attitude than someone who’s doing it simply because it impresses the community, therefore the city council will give more facility, and this and that, and we’ll be more recognized. I can go to these group meetings of all the religions and feel confident that yes, we’re doing some social work because that’s what they’re going to ask me about because that’s the only thing that they’re doing, and they call it spiritual, so I want to be spiritual, so therefore I’ve got to do this.

Does that make sense? Very different.

One who has no interest in Krishna-katha or the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is like dry, useless wood with no living force.

The ISKCON branch being directly watered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, so here he’s taking it useless wood, meaning you have a tree and you have a branch connected to the tree, that’s the whole point. The Hindu religion is connected to the tree, the Western is not. We’re not even sure if it’s a branch, but in any case it’s not connected to the tree. But here is a branch connected to the tree, right? But it’s gone dry, so it’s useless. No leaves, no fruits, no flowers, like that.

So the ISKCON branch being directly watered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is becoming undoubtedly successful, whereas the disconnected branches of the so-called Hindu religion that are envious of ISKCON are drying up and dying. Caitanya Chaturmita, Adi 12.73, third point. So the whole point is this understanding and giving of Krishna Consciousness, that’s this dynamic. What is Madhva’s mission? Giving God Consciousness. Ramanuja’s giving God Consciousness.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

My observation is that when Prabhupada established the mission and he injected the spirit of the mission to the devotees, he wanted devotees to be both sadhakas, very good sadhakas, and also to spend their time giving Krishna Consciousness to others. We see today there are trends, and I would say because there are outside influences, where we see devotees who would rather do bhajan.

They love reading Prabhupada’s book, they study, but then they think it’s better to look after your own spiritual life than spending time helping others.

The difficulty is that’s the point that was made before, that means you can’t just by reading books, you have to associate. Now you may get benefit, and it’s not that you won’t advance, but the difficulty is that seeing that the mission was started by Rupa Goswami because Lord Caitanya was in anxiety that the world is not being benefited by this Krishna Consciousness. In other words, Krishna Consciousness is so nice, but so many people aren’t getting the benefit of that niceness. Just like I have food, someone else doesn’t have food, I feel bad.

Therefore I want to see them with food. So the same way, Lord Caitanya is Krishna Conscious, and it’s so nice that he wants the rest of the world to have that taste, have that experience, that benefit. So therefore, the mission as we are practicing it, that’s given by Rupa Goswami.

So, I think it’s Jiva Goswami, defines Bhajananandi, I mean Ghostyanandi, as a group of Bhajananandis who get together and preach. So it’s also a fault where it’s just about preaching, you don’t have to cultivate your own Krishna Consciousness. That’s also a fault. The point is you’re cultivating Krishna Consciousness. You appreciate Krishna Consciousness, therefore you cultivate it. And because you appreciate it, you can see the benefit of others getting that. Especially since that’s Lord Caitanya’s desire, that’s Rupa Goswami’s desire. You want to assist them in doing that. It’s not that we’re going to benefit others, we’re going to assist the Acharyas, Prabhupada serving the previous Acharyas headed by Rupa Goswami to please Lord Caitanya. But it has to be the person who practices it, they’ll be able to give it very nicely. Otherwise then there’ll be problems. Okay, from another angle.

For example, you have Brahmacharis who come from palace families and move to the Godi Marga. Who for them, you know, sitting in the temple, in the ashram, and chant all day, do bhajan all day. It’s effortless. You know, almost effortless. The taste is there easily. For us, we have to burn the impurities by doing Sankirtan. Now there is an influence coming from India that goes into the West, that goes into the devotees’ mind that they also can do that. There’s no need to do Sankirtan. There’s no need to kill yourself in doing service and preaching. Just sit down and do bhajan. No, but generally they kill themselves trying to pay the mortgage.

You’re going to kill yourself anyway, so it’s just a matter of how you want to kill yourself. If somebody turns up in your temple and tells the devotees, look, you know, I think it’d be more beneficial for your spiritual life if you spend more time doing bhajan than going out. Then that person you, you know, come up, you know, put your arm around them, kind of lead them out the door, you know, down to a taxi that you’ve called, and take them down to the airport.

Ask them where they want to go, and in fact you’ll even pay for the ticket.

Gargamuni used to do that. If someone showed up at the temple that shouldn’t be there, he would pay for them to go to somewhere else. And I once asked him, I said, why do you pay? He says, you know, it’s a loss for you. He says, no, it’s a gain. He says, they would create more trouble staying here than it is for me to pay for it.

You understand? Because now if they said, now if this is what they were saying, so, okay, I’ve come here, I’ve seen, you know, you guys are preaching very nicely and all that, but I notice your personal sadhana is not very developed. Now, if you would improve your own sadhana, your preaching would be even better. That’s the person that you want to invite to remain for more time at your temple. But if they’re saying, stop the preaching, just do bhajan, who can do that, as one thing? You know, who can do that? Because the point is, is they will say they’re doing that, and then they’ll be doing everything else. You know what I’m saying? It’s just like this.

Everyone’s excited about, you know, starting on Monday, there’s going to be five days of kirtan.

You know, so once a year we have a kirtan mela here. I remember back in the 70s and 80s, every day was kirtan mela.

So, how is it an improvement?

Because today there’s more meetings. Yeah, well, that’s another thing, then we don’t want to get distracted here. The point is, is that, it’s understood, is that, that’s what he said, Jiva Goswami says, ghosthi anandi is a group of bhajan anandis who get together to preach. So, in other words, a ghosthi anandi is good at bhajan. Otherwise, how do you give that to… If I’m preaching, I’m preaching someone to do what? Take up Krishna consciousness. If I can’t practice it, then how will I get the other person to practice it? I have faith in chanting. I have faith in the process. I can get others to have the faith. But if I’m not practicing it, then what are you going to do? Let’s take a more, you know, world context. What does a priest give to his, you know, individual member of the parish?

Practices of Christianity or faith in Christianity? He only gives faith. What’s the practice? What it means for the common person who will say, yes, I’m Christian. What are his practices that are Christian? He gets up in the morning. What’s Christian about it? He brushes his teeth, you know, drinks his coffee, eats his donut, you know, maybe even eats an omelet. I mean, but how is that? Where’s the Christian? He gets into his car. You know, everybody drives it in a Christian way, right? He goes to his office, sits at his desk and behind his Christian computer, right, you know? And then he works nicely and all that, interacts with all the other nice Christians there, right? Gets back on the, you know, on the tube and rides it like a dignified Christian would. Goes home and watches, you know, only, you know, just what a Christian would watch. He eats Christian food. You know, he changes, you know, he’s very careful about his Christian dress. In other words, there’s nothing Christian about it. All it is, he has faith.

So one wants to be very careful that one’s preaching is not simply only the faith. But that’s, of course, important. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be there. But the point is this, faith, then there’s sadhu-saṅga. Are they, they know what sadhu-saṅga is. So are they cultivating that? And then from sadhu-saṅga comes bhajana-kriya.

Right? And so that bhajana-kriya is the same kriyas that you’re going to be doing all throughout one’s devotional life. Even in prema, you know, they get up in the morning and go see Krishna. You know, so these same things are going to be there. So it’s a natural progress. So if one’s only preaching and only giving śraddha, that’s good. But the point is this, it’ll be even more dynamic if you can give sadhu-saṅga and bhajana-kriya. Right? And then you’re fixed in devotional service, therefore you can make them fixed in their bhajana. Right? And then by being fixed, they get a taste, they get attached, they develop ecstasy, they develop faith. So if you see that whole picture, then the sankirtana becomes even more dynamic. But if you’re going to say, no, just sit down and do your own bhajana, with Westerners it’s not going to happen. One or two maybe can sit down and do it. You know, one or two that if they weren’t devotees, they’d sit down with noses in books all day and stuff like that and do things on their own. They might be able to do, or, you know, they might have become a nun or a monk. But other than that, you know, one in a hundred thousand, they can’t, no one can do it. They’re going to be very busy, you know, you know, talking on the phone and doing the job, getting the money, arranging this and that. And they got to go to the spa and they got to do so many things and go down to their organic little store to buy their stuff. And, you know, all these different things which takes up most of the day. Like that quality time with the kids and, you know, date night and, you know, all these different things they got to be doing. You know, so then, you know, does that make sense? So, the point is, and then how much time is actually spent in Krishna Consciousness? Now, their focus is on Krishna Consciousness, these particular individuals. So, therefore, all the other things aren’t as important to them. To them it’s just like you have to breathe, but you’re focused on what you’re talking about or doing. So in the same way as they’re focused on that little bit of bhajan that they do, but how much do they actually do? Very little. You know, they’ll sit down a little bit and chant and they’ll sit down a little bit and read. And even if they get in 2, 3, 4 hours, which would be probably quite revolutionary if you look at, you know, a broad spectrum of devotees, but still that’s 4 and 24. What’s the other 20 hours? Regular, just mundane life as they would be living it as a member of their particular country and the particular social class that they’re from. And that’s as good as it gets. But the point is, is Lord Caitanya is giving the system, Prabhupada is giving the system of 24 hours. That means you need to know philosophy, but you have to apply it. That’s not being discussed. You simply sit down and do your bhajan. But why should you sit down and do your bhajan? How are you going to do that bhajan? How are you going to see that the mind is absorbed? How are you going to do all those things? The point is, if you’re purified, it’s just like this.

The boy is just going along, he’s small, you know, what does he think about all day? You know, food, playing, this, that. Does his mother have to force him to think about these things? No, it’s spontaneous.

So that’s the whole point. If it’s understood, you have the philosophy, you have the association, you have the practice that you know about bhajan and its importance, then as you get purified, you’ll do it. But if you don’t know about it, you won’t do it. And if you only do that, but don’t do the other things, how are you actually going to get purified?

Because the focus is only on chanting, reading, small groups of associates, the five main aspects, which are the most important and most powerful. And because of that, they do advance.

But the problem is, as we said, the other 20 hours of the day, that’s all the indirect. That you have to know the philosophy, how to engage those things. Then if you engage that, then you’ll find that these other things are able to be increased.

I have never heard that definition in the philosophy.

Bhajanandis, who come together, right? To preach. This is a great definition. Because in other words, bhajanandi is the first step, but then the next step, the higher step, that’s why ghostinandi is higher. It’s not a different thing, it’s the same person gone to a higher level.

Otherwise, then it’s like, OK, you have the college graduate, and you have the primary and secondary graduate. So, in actuality, what is the college graduate?

Someone who graduated from primary and secondary and now has gone further. But our definition, generally how devotees understand it, is, I will graduate from university without having done anything from primary and secondary.

But how is it possible?

That’s what Prabhupada said. You have to read the books, that’s why you preach. Harikesa, at one point, I think it was in Zurich, which in the past was always famous for their book distribution. So, the devotees are going… It means you’re talking Swiss here, right? And German-Swiss. So you’re talking, basically, human clocks.

Would that be a proper… You know, exact, everything exact.

So, ten o’clock they go out on Sankirtan, six o’clock they’d be back. And you can guarantee it was exactly at ten they went and exactly at six they came back. And they were the top temple in the world. Then Harikesa found out no one was reading. So then he made the rule, from ten to twelve they read, and from twelve to six they go out. So he reduced, actually, Sankirtan to 75%.

But in that six hours they did more books than they used to do in the eight, because they were reading and they had more of the conviction and improved the quality of their understanding and practice. That balance, if someone’s preaching that, now that’s desirable.

You’re good at your bhajan, naturally you’ll be good at preaching, but you don’t have to wait. That’s the weakness that Prabhupada would complain, that many of the Gaudiyas, they think, until I become perfect, then only I can preach. No, it’s by the process of preaching you become perfect. Sukadeva Goswami became perfect by preaching.

Parikhit by hearing. Like that. So the point is, we can’t just sit and hear all day. We have to do something.

One last point on this. That not only those devotees who have this tendency or this desire to do bhajan, but then when they sit down, they don’t even go through the Bhagavad Gita, Chapter Two, or whatever. They go straight to the Tenth Canto. But how will you appreciate Tenth Canto? The problem is, in Tenth Canto, now when Krishna is taken away by the Trinavarta demon, right? And then every… My mother just showed this very worried and anxiety. Then when they find Krishna, okay, then he’s, you know, he’s been flying around and there’s a lot of dust from, you know, the demon and everything like that making the world. What do they do? They do pancagabhi-abhishek. Yeah, they do this pancagabhi-abhishek, they do mudras and nyasas and everything. So, how did they know that?

Right? You don’t get it from reading Tenth Canto. They didn’t tell the stuff. You get that by reading the other literatures. So, in other words, all the people in the Tenth Canto know all the other literatures.

Right? I think that one time they went out somewhere traveling. I’m not sure. I think it’s in this chapter, maybe another chapter. But that one time when Nanda Baba gets swallowed by the snake, you know, and all that kind of thing. So, then afterwards there’s a discussion and Nanda Baba’s quoting from Bhagavad Gita.

Right? So, they establish what they do based on Shastra.

Means, why is it that Krishna has to be trained to take out the cows? Right? He’s God. You know? So, but, you know, okay. The Rajbhasis, they don’t care about that. Okay. He’s Mother Yashoda’s kid. Right? She’s attached. Right? No one could make a complaint that Mother Yashoda’s not attached to her kid. Right? You’d have to say, she is the, you know, the perfect, you know, universal mother, you know? So, she is attached to her kid. Why is it that she agrees to allow Krishna to go out and tend the cows?

She would rather him be at home all day.

Right? Because that’s their varna, their cowherds. So, as an occupation, they have to do their duties and their duties are herding cows. Where did that come from?

That comes from other things before the Tenth Canto. So, the whole thing is, what we miss is that the specialness about the Tenth Canto is here.

It’s not about perfecting devotional service. It’s about perfect devotional service. So, the point is, how you will appreciate Tenth Canto is of all the, you’ll appreciate Tenth Canto the more you understand the first nine cantos, because then you understand how they’re basing on all those things, so the culture is so perfectly being engaged in Krishna’s service and the taste that they’re getting from that.

So, that’s what’s important. It’s not just the story, because the point is, is after a while, then they’re going to get, they’ve heard the stories. Now what? You need new stories.

You know? That’s the weakness in that approach.

Of course, if you have a good orator, you know, you can’t, you know, that help goes a long way. You know? But, the point is, is that the Acharyas, Jiva Goswami and the Sandarbhas, you see, as we’ve mentioned before, is that sometimes there are sentences where the first half of the sentence is the very fine esoteric philosophy, the tattva, you know, some nuance in, you know, ontology, epistemology, you know, these aspects. And the second half of the sentence is the same thing, but how it is seen in its origin, in actual pastime.

So it’s not just that he says, well, like this, therefore it does like that. He just, the other shows the pastime.

So, that pastime was the origin of this particular aspect of our, you know, you know, why things are the way they are.

You know what I’m saying? It’s just like you can say, okay, the, means you have the masculine and feminine principle, so there’s God, masculine is God, he’s the origin, then there’s the energy, the creation.

You know, so therefore then in that you have husband and wife, you know, or teacher, student, you know, the administrator and the citizens, parent, child.

So that came from there. But if you don’t understand that, you won’t really understand this.

So that’s the, that’s the difficulty. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, well that’s there.

Yeah, that means you’ll get those instances, then people will appreciate that that’s the way it is. But, but it’s, you know, but that’s just because that’s the nature and so you have to have a reason for it. Does that make sense? That’s all. You know what I’m saying? In other words, Krishna’s eternal, but you have, people won’t buy that, so he has to be born.

So therefore you have a pastime like that. Krishna has to leave, so therefore you have to have a reason, you know, some guy shot him in the ankle. You know, like that. So, does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So, therefore you have all those explanations. That would be an example of that, but then the origin of that is why not, because the point is this, for one quality of God, there’s unlimited manifestations.

Does that make sense? So, therefore, what is that going to mean?

Right? It means you have one Krishna. Now, to complement all the aspects of even one quality, let’s say you take Krishna’s quality of sweetness. How many gopis are there?

Each one is complementing a certain aspect of sweetness. Right? You say madhurya rasa, sweetness, but all of those devotees are involved in appreciating that sweetness, but each gopi is different, is unique.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So, therefore, now, and it’s so nice, so now it’ll be discussed.

Therefore, one gopi will talk about what taste is there and all these things and that quality, that wonderfulness of Krishna with another one, and then others with others, and that’s why you can have a whole lot of girls together. Right? And it can be, you know, they can all work in one mood. It’s very rare you can have a whole bunch of boys together. Right? Do you know what I’m saying? Because girls can get together and talk, boys together, they can get together if there’s something to happen.

You know what I’m saying? But girls can get together and talk all this and that and they want to hear all the detail. The guys don’t want to hear all the detail.

You know? Does that make sense? So that’s the natural form of it. Therefore, in this world, women have to talk about everything and so if it’s something that gave some experience it must be talked about. Therefore, the problem is with secrets is they either themselves give an intense experience or they’re about an intense experience. So therefore, it must be shared. That’s the nature. But in the spiritual world it’s not a problem because that secret is Krishna. Krishna is the secret of all secrets. But here, then sometimes it’s a problem. Therefore, since it’s a problem, right? Therefore, when you’re dealing in less personal elements like occupation, right? That’s why then in occupation in the political field you don’t discuss anything political that’s important around women because women will have to share that.

You understand? But family, that you can discuss. You can share. You understand? So there’s a difference made there.

You understand? Otherwise, before in the political means you read old books or old political field. Right? You know the kings are there and this and that and there’s some political intrigue and there’s secrets and this and that. Anybody has any problem with it? Do you think that there’s something wrong here? Do you read it and go where’s the truth?

Does that come out? No. But in the modern, yes. Why? Because the women are in those fields. So they’ve domesticated the field of occupation, men’s occupation. So therefore, it’s not about truth. It’s about me being able to get my hands on facts.

You understand? Because if you just say the fact, the women don’t like facts. They like the experience connected to facts.

She knows what I’m talking about. I’ve just explained to everybody else who doesn’t know these things.

You know what I’m saying? That’s why it’s about the experience. That’s why when you explain something, it’s not about the facts. You know, it’s like, not, wow, that sari is very green.

It’s a matter of, no, it says, oh, it’s very nice, it has a fresh color, this, that, those, it’s all the adjectives. Right? Because that gives the experience.

Does that make sense? That’s what’s important.

Does that make sense? So therefore, it has to be understood is that, why is that going on? Why is this truth? Because it’s not that, no, it’s just that whatever I want, that I can get a hold of. Because actually, people don’t care about the facts, really, because they only care about the ones that give the experience they want. You know, like, say, the person’s done this, but they only worry about those facts that will, therefore, I can get the experience that, well, he’s a bad guy, therefore, we can deal with him in a certain way. But the other facts, nobody cares about. So it’s not about truth. It’s about prajabha.

You know what I’m saying? I mean, the point is, if I can get some information, what can I do with it? I can put it on the internet, everybody can talk about it and this and that. But I don’t put out all things. I only put out things that I’m interested in. So it’s not about truth. It’s just about prajabha.

You know what I’m saying? So therefore, prajabha, which is an ashram thing, it’s come into the varna thing. And so, therefore, it’s a mess. Therefore, varna doesn’t work.

So you have to know that in its original state, it’s actually very important because then everything that’s been heard and done, all the gopis will talk about because it’s about Krishna. Why it’s not good?

Now it’s because it’s not about Krishna. But if it’s about Krishna, then it’s great. Anything about it, any experience, anything like that is wonderful. So the point is, therefore, this is the real kicker here, is, therefore, if we look at it, all the things that everybody complains about, you know, there’s a problem with the ladies, it’s because ladies aren’t meant for men here. They’re meant for men there. The only man there is Krishna. In other words, women are meant for Krishna. It’s because people here think they’re Krishna, therefore, okay, then they can try their luck.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.

Okay. So end. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. Shrila Prabhupada ki. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya.

Jaya.

Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • There is no devotional service to Kṛṣṇa without service to devotees, except for Rādhārāṇī, as She is the only direct devotee to Kṛṣṇa.
  • Devotional service does not work on the principle of ‘I do something, therefore I should get something’ – that is karma, or ‘I study something, therefore I will understand’ – that is jñāna.
  • We should desire to know to apply knowledge in devotional service.
  • Scholars do not get paid much because they do not practically do anything.
  • Institutions were there long before Westerners created a mess out of them. Spiritual institutions are established by the ācāryas to facilitate association of devotees.
  • Modern institutions have a problem because they think that management is the most important thing.
  • People only care about justice if it is in an area that affects them.
  • Most people cannot handle who they actually are and what is their true motive.
  • Most modern followers of Vedic culture are useless in terms of spreading the culture not because of the culture itself, but because they do not understand its purpose.
  • There are Hindus preaching Hinduism, but they are not very successful because they are not taking the God consciousness as the essence.
  • The essence of the Vedic culture is the message of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
  • Why Bollywood became so degraded.
  • Welfare is about establishing relationship – with food, mosquito net etc. But the highest welfare is establishing relationship with God.
  • Anybody who preaches that devotees should stop preaching and just do bhajans should be driven out of the temple. However, improving our individual bhajans will definitely improve our preaching.
  • Goṣṭyānandīs are just a group of bhajanānandīs who got together to preach. It means that preachers are good at bhajana.
  • Most Westerners are going to be very busy in their material life anyway.
  • If one knows about the importance of bhajans, one will do it automatically more and more as one gets purified.
  • Goṣṭyānandī is the same bhajanānandī gone to a higher level.
  • All the people in the 10th canto know all the other Vedic literatures.
  • Professional, political things should not be told to women because they always want to share things. Sharing works very well within family. Outside women domesticate the professional fields of men.
  • Women are not interested in facts, they are into experiences that facts give.

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