A conditioned soul in the material world has the disqualification of cheating. He has four disqualifications. He is sure to commit mistakes. He is sure to be illusioned. He is prone to cheat others, and his senses are imperfect. But if anyone carries out the order of the spiritual master by disciple concession, or the paramparā system, he overcomes the four defects. Therefore, knowledge received from the bona fide spiritual master is not cheating. And other knowledge, which is manufactured by the conditioned soul, is cheating only. Brahman knew well that Kardama Muni exactly carried out the instructions received from him, and that he actually honored his spiritual master. To honor the spiritual master means to carry out his instructions word for word. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.24.12, Purport. And so here the element of carrying out the instructions, it’s always coming back to instructions. Because otherwise we see that there are some who, they worship the spiritual master, but his instructions aren’t actually what’s important. Right? You know, so that’s the whole thing. Yes. Questioner 2 So not for some Buddhism, how is it that they can continue, because everything is based on faith, so then where does their faith come from? Faith in the material. I mean, it’s like the materialists, how do they continue on? Like that. You know, because that’s the point. If the consciousness is material, then, you know, one has faith in whatever is that aspect of material that you like. So, it goes on.
The ultimate test of whether one is or is not a member of Lord Caitanya’s sampradaya is the quality of his chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, which is the essential ācāra in the age of Kali. Quote. You should always remember that either grihasta or brahmacārī or sannyāsī, nobody can strictly follow all the rules and regulations. And the Kali-yuga is not possible. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that hari-nāma, chanting hari-kṛṣṇa mantra, should be rigidly performed, which is common for everybody. Śrīla Prabhupāda’s conversation, March 10, 1976.
If a person advertises himself as a Gaurīya Vaiṣṇava by chanting the hari-kṛṣṇa-māhā mantra, and yet deliberately blasphemes great devotees, denies that Lord Viṣṇu is the Absolute Truth, considers the spiritual master to be an ordinary man, blasphemes Vedic literatures and other authorized scriptures, considers the glories of the holy name to be exaggeration, concocts perverted theories about the holy name, thinks the holy name to be equivalent to mundane religious rituals, preaches the glories of the holy name to the faithless or maintains material attachments while chanting the holy name, he cannot represent the Sādhya-mṛdaya even if he is initiated into it. Quote, Whether a Vaiṣṇava is properly initiated or not is not a subject for consideration. One may be initiated and yet contaminated by the Māyāvāda philosophy, but a person who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly will not be so contaminated. A properly initiated Vaiṣṇava may be imperfect, but one who chants the holy name of the Lord is all-perfect. Although he may apparently be a neophyte, he is still to be considered a pure unalloyed Vaiṣṇava. Caitanya-caritāmṛta Madhya-līlā 15.1.1.1. So the point is that if one has that faith in pure devotional service, that’s what actually makes a difference. So even here it’s being taken, that even one’s initiated into the Sādhya-mṛdaya, right? The point is if someone’s not in the Sādhya-mṛdaya, one is initiated into and up a Sādhya-mṛdaya, of course then there’s not going to be anything really of any value, it’s a waste of time. But within those who are initiated into the Sādhya-mṛdaya, we’ve already made a distinction, then we’re basically saying is if one is contaminated too much by these other elements, then also you have technically the useless effect. Though of course it’s not useless because you’re connected to the Sādhya-mṛdaya. But when we’re talking about pure unalloyed devotion as the golden one’s trying to get, this prema, then it’s not very useful because it slows everything down. Just like let’s say a slug is going to Calcutta. Give it enough time, it’ll get there. But would we consider that useful? It means the demigods, right? It means they all have their vahanas, their vehicles, right? Some are on lions, some are on mice, some are on tigers, all these different, on Garuda, on all these different persons. Have you ever heard of a demigod on a slug? No, it just doesn’t happen, just a little too slow. There are 33 million of them. Yeah, but we haven’t heard about it. It’s not prominent. Because there’s 8,430,000, so that means they have to be doubling up somewhere. It’s not that, you know, oh no! You know, the demigods have just changed, the mana has changed, there’s new Indra, new Varuna, new Vayu, new Agni, and then a group of them are all sitting around with smug little smiles on their faces. And one of the new demigods walks in and he’s kind of like, what’s going on? And then when he opens his door to his office, oh no, I got the slug! Yeah, I don’t think it’s quite like that, you know, and everybody else outside cracks up and all that.
It doesn’t exactly work like that. No, it’s not.
So, the point is, it’s still moving, but would you call it useful?
No. So the point is, just because something is there, but the point is, we’re talking about dynamics, so therefore, then in that case, in comparison to dynamic, it’s useless. Does that make sense? But that’s different from the useless of the Apasampradaya, because you can get absolutely nothing from that. Right? So we always have to be able to distinguish absolute from mundane, and then within absolute, then the gradations. So even though the mechanics are the same, you still have to distinguish between the platforms.
Does that make sense?
There are also gradations within the mundane? Of course, but the gradations… So, the gradations are on both sides always the same. What’s more favorable to devotional service, what’s less favorable.
You know what I’m saying? Either in detail or in principle. In other words, if it looks exactly like devotional service, but doesn’t have the devotional attitude, then that means you’re using the recommended forms, like the smartest may be using. But as you drop down from the mode of goodness into passion and ignorance, even though the Shastras are giving directions for people in those modes or allowances, then you’re dropping out of your forms in the mode of goodness. So there, in those, the detail is not useful. The principle still is. Because there’s nothing that the principle isn’t useful. But it’s just a matter… It’s nice when the principle and the detail manifest together. That’s balanced. Because that’s the Vedic thing, is that the masculine and feminine principles should be balanced. Now, of that principle, masculine-feminine principle, the combination within the material sphere, what’s the most prominent of that?
Marriage, right. And according to Manu, what’s the most important element you look at in deciding on a marriage?
Compatibility of equals.
Right? Does that make sense? So that means that when you’re applying… It means you can have a marriage, you can take two people that completely have nothing in common and nothing to do with each other, and they’re masculine and feminine, right? So you could technically have a marriage. As long as no one opens their mouth, who’s going to know? The guy just stands there and smiles, and the lady just comes walking down the aisle, and as long as they both say, I do, it works.
But after the ceremony, when they start talking, then you go, what do these two have to do with each other? You understand? So the farther they are apart, the less it applies. So that’s why the mode of goodness is recommended, because mode of goodness means that’s the recommended forms. Right? But it’s not proper until it becomes pure goodness. Pure goodness means it’s being done to please Vishnu. Does that make sense? So in other words, activities of goodness being done to please Vishnu, that’s ideal.
But, as Prabhupada’s pointing out in Kali Yuga, you can’t get everything perfect. So therefore, the focus is on chanting the holy name, the major things, associating with Vaishnavas, worshipping the deity, these five aspects, but of those, chanting the holy name. Because if you have the Vaishnavas in the holy name, everything else will come. Right? So now, you bring it as close as possible. So as you start to drop down in quality, then the only thing that’s there is it’s in principle.
You know what I’m saying?
Does that make sense? The guy’s hungry. He opens all the shutters. There’s nothing there. He finds one can of beans.
And there’s nothing to heat it or do it. It’s not exactly what you call it. But it has the principle, it’ll do something on maintaining the body. So in principle, it has. But no one will call it really food. Do you understand? So the detail is very far, but the principle still works. So everything has that. You know what I’m saying? The well-felt work, the common purpose, there’s the element of that compassion and trying to help others and sharing what you have, willingness to give up something that you have and share with. Those are good qualities, but that is being applied simply to the body and not actually to the person who’s the soul. That’s basically a waste of time. Right? Does that make sense? So that’s the whole thing. It’s wasted, but at least in principle it’s there. So if you can catch that principle and connect that to Krishna, then it becomes dynamic.
Does that make sense? So one always has to know the principle and what’s the ideal detail. And then after that, what’s the second, what’s the third, what’s the tenth, what’s the hundredth?
Does that make sense? As it moves down.
Yes? So the preacher must be expert in knowing the principle and understanding what degree of detail is required, but he doesn’t lose the principle. Yes, he doesn’t lose. So that’s important. So we see here is that the most important one is you have to have the knowledge, but even you have the knowledge, as I said before, even if you know, it’s still the attitude is even more important. Right? You know, so of all rules, chanting Hare Krishna is the most important. Right? So of all practices, within practices, the intent, that’s the most important. So that’s why then here Prabhupada is saying, if someone’s properly initiated but is chanting offenselessly, it doesn’t say, then he’s considered a pure unalloyed Vaisnava, because the point is this, their purpose is simply to please Krishna. They may not be very expert in it, in other words, the detail is not very nicely manifest.
Right? You know, it means they chant funny, they dress funny, they act funny, everything’s funny, but the point is, is they’re still considered pure unalloyed Vaisnavas.
Does that make sense? So, that’s what you’re looking at. But it doesn’t mean that since you’re doing it for Krishna, it doesn’t mean that it can’t be improved.
Right? Now, Mother just showed us, she’s cooking for Krishna. No? Right? No one would think that that’s strange. Right? Moms cook for their kids. Right? No? Yes. Okay. So, moms cook for their kids, because they want the best for the kids. Why do you cook for the kid? What’s the benefit? He eats nice food, what happens? He’ll be healthy. Stop screaming. Stop screaming. Okay, that’s another side benefit like that. You don’t talk about that one much. You understand? So, he’s healthy. Now, now she’s cooking. Now, what happens when Mother just showed us, finds out that Radharani gets the blessing that anybody who eats her food will be, you know, have good health, be long-lived and everything like that? What then does she do?
Yeah, she asks Radharani to come and cook at her house for Krishna.
Does that make sense? So, does that mean, is that she’s not trying to improve the service? Yeah. So, that’s the whole point is, even though it’s perfect, it can still get better.
That’s the whole point. It can always develop. That’s why one has to tell the difference between material and spiritual, and then distinguish within spiritual. Because the mechanics are the same. So, what’s the… So, the mechanics are not different between the material and spiritual. What’s different is the attitude. So, the attitude is to please Krishna, right? You know, in parampara, according to the instructions of Guru. Then it becomes spiritual.
Now, within that, now how well one’s following the order, or how nicely it’s being performed, when skills… All these things, these are all things to be improved. Right? Skills can always be developed. Right? We read it, how Krishna learned the 64 arts. Right? Brahma Samhita, we learned, and we’ll learn… Is it next year? Yes, this day. Yeah, next year. Yeah, and we’re doing in the first year. We switched it. Instead of doing the Brihad-Bhagavatam, we’ll do that first. So, we’ll hear how Radharani is expert at all this. She teaches this to all the others. So, that means when you go to the spiritual world, you’ll be taught the 64 arts. Right? So, you know, in other words, if you can’t get music together in this lifetime, don’t lament. You’ll learn it in the spiritual world. Right? And then you can eternally do it over there. You know, you want to learn that instrument, you never can get time. Don’t worry. You know, worry about chanting and, you know, associating priesthood. Because you’ll learn over there. Right? So, you’re taught. So, what does that mean? Can you improve? Yes. That’s the whole point, is it’s always and ever expanding, always getting better. Right? Krishna is ever fresh. What does that mean? It’s always getting better. He’s always perfect and getting more perfect every moment. That’s the thing. The material goes the opposite. It is perfect. And then you come back and it’s not so perfect.
Right? Isn’t it? You know, all the things that, you know, as a kid, wow, that was great. Then, you know, somehow or another, you know, twenty, thirty years later, you get an opportunity to, wow, you know, it’s never so good. Like that. It’s just, you know, it’s just not the same. It just doesn’t… Does that make sense? It’s just everything goes down in the material. The spiritual everything goes up. Right? So that’s the problem. If you think we’re dealing with mechanics, then it becomes material. No. The mechanics are spiritual. That your arm bends like this. Did that come from my arm or that came from the arm in the mirror?
Where did the mechanics come from? Yes. So that means all the mechanics of this world, how it works, techniques of cooking, techniques of talking, techniques of dressing, techniques of management, techniques of anything, that comes from the spiritual world. That’s where reality is. It’s reflected here. But the reflection works the same way. The arm in the mirror bends the same way.
Does that make sense? That’s the whole point. It’s still the same.
So it’s not the mechanics. So when we talk about these words, and how do you deal with mechanics? Let’s say, the actual car, it moves forward, right? It’s got those little round things, right? And when it moves forward, what do the round things do?
What is the word we use when they move forward? They roll, right? Isn’t it? Isn’t that what the wheels on the bus do? Right? Okay. So, they roll.
So now, if the kid has a little car, and he puts it in front of a mirror, and he pushes it, what do the wheels in the mirror do? They also roll. They go around and around, right? Okay. Does that make sense? So that’s why it looks the same. But then, because we’re conditioned here, we take the mechanics, anytime we use the terms of the mechanics, that means material.
Mechanics are mechanics. The difference between the two is simply the consciousness. Otherwise, there isn’t any difference.
You understand? But there, they’re working with superior ingredients, you know, that actually have something. Right? The real arm can do something. The arm in the mirror doesn’t do anything. The arm in the mirror can only do something if the real arm’s doing something.
So, what does that mean? That means in the material world, you have the option to use the mechanics like they are in the original. Then you actually get some result. That’s called piety. That’s the superior material. You understand? You can also, you have the freedom to not use it, because I’m an individual. I’m free. I can do whatever I like. No one can tell me what to do. I’m independent. Yeah, but if it’s not like the original one, you don’t get anything.
You know what I’m saying?
How materially situated, as far as anybody knows who they are, they have money, they have influence on society or that, are the people who sit around and profess all these funny little philosophies. Right? The guys down at the university, the guys sitting, you know, around with their friends, this and that, how much effect do they have?
You understand? Because the point is, you do it like that, you don’t get results.
Right? Are the big, big, powerful, influential businessmen and other, you know, intellectuals and politicians, you know, or artists, are they doing something that’s not according to the laws of nature? Can you? He takes his billions of dollars, he invests it in something very expensive and sells it for very cheap. Does he make money? No, but he’s got billions, so he’s independent.
No, he doesn’t.
It’s science. That science comes from the spiritual world. Then you apply that science on the less qualified ingredients.
Right? And the point is, you would do things with it here that you wouldn’t necessarily do with it there.
You know what I’m saying? You have something in the house and you’ll use it for a certain thing. Give it to the kids, they’ll do all kinds of stuff with it.
Is that what I’m saying? You know, it’s just, they don’t really care. So that’s why you’ll see applications that are not necessarily the ideal.
But everybody’s doing it, so what? Everybody’s an idiot. You know, all the little kids, they’re all out in the backyard being idiots. You know, so that means now the adults should be idiots? I mean, that’s another thing. We already are, but you know, you don’t bring that point up. You know? Does that make sense? No. They just are idiots with panache. You know?
Okay. So here the point, of all the apparently being even neophyte, he still has to be considered a pure unalloyed Vaishnava. Neophyte means gets distracted by the mundane, gets, you know, overwhelmed by everything like that, but their intent is pure devotion. Therefore, they’re counted as pure unalloyed Vaishnavas.
You understand? But they’ll still be the symptoms or the mechanics of the neophyte because their skill and their training is not the mature.
Does that make sense? But the intent. So therefore, since intent is the most important, that’s what you look at first. Because otherwise, someone’s very skilled, like you said, like the smarta. But the intent is wrong. That’s the far-out thing. It’s like, it means now you don’t necessarily have always the opportunity. Remember back in 70s, 80s. It means, I remember once some lady came to the temple. I think she was from Kashmir. Kashmir Brahmin, right? And, you know, talking philosophy. And they’re just, you know, straight up from Mayavadis, these guys. You know, they’re one of the groups that when we talk about smartas, we mean they’re the group, right? You know? Like that. So, then she’s there. And we’re talking philosophy. Well, where does it say that? You quote the Gita Shloka. You know, and how well does, you know, just a young American quote Sanskrit.
You know? Americans can’t say any other language. They can’t even say their own language, probably. Right? You know, England is kind of like, you call that England? You know? Like that. You know? So, in any case, you know. But, it’s there. And so the lady is complaining, you know, that’s not Sanskrit. And then she says it, you know, how it’s properly supposed to be said. But, the intent’s still wrong.
Right? Does that make sense? So even though it’s perfect, if the intent’s wrong, it’s wrong. But if the intent is correct, even if the skill, even if the mechanics isn’t ideal, it’s still considered pure devotional service. Right? You’re probably saying pure unalloyed. Because if you’re following the footsteps of the Brajavasis of pure unalloyed, then your devotion is categorized there. Right? If it’s Vaikuntha, then it’s just called pure devotional service. It’s Vrindavan pure unalloyed. But the skill hasn’t developed. But, if one continues with that pure unalloyed attitude, it will develop. So therefore, even though it’s not developed, there’s no fault. But it doesn’t mean you can’t improve it. Right? Because then they think, well, if there’s no fault, why do you have to improve? No, but if there’s a fault, how can we say it’s correct? These things are all useless arguments. They all come from attachment and envy. False ego. That’s where these come from. The point is, it’s just simple. It’s just trained. Like the child, you know, will say in the social senses, innocent. But they don’t do everything right. But they’re still considered innocent. So in that way, the neophyte can still be a pure unalloyed Vaishnava, and at the same time, need some serious training.
Like that. But we have to be able to distinguish to be able to tell that. Otherwise, by sentiment, then it’s all this or that, or it’s just by knowledge, oh, then nothing’s right.
Yes? So it means pure devotion means offenseless chanting, right? Offenseless, yeah. It doesn’t say, you know, in prema or, you know, anything like that. That will come. That will be the natural mature. Just like, will the child grow up? Right? Let’s say the child is from a very wealthy, influential business family. Right? And the child has the, you know, the samskaras of the family. It wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t something that shouldn’t have been there. Right? So the child has that nature, has everything of the family. So the thing is, is now you say, well, he’s not a businessman. Look at him. He’s only three years old. But come back after, you know, another nine years, you’ll see a businessman.
Isn’t it? So it’s just a matter of time.
So that’s why then here it’s pure unalloyed. If the intent is correct, then it’s counted as pure unalloyed. Then it’s a matter of, okay, what weaknesses are there? What’s the training of the skills and the knowledge to match that intent?
That’s what has to be trained. So you have to be able to distinguish that.
But you have to first, so does that make sense? So that’s why the mechanics still have to develop. So it’s the same way, those mechanics are useful in devotional service. So that’s why even if the materialist has those mechanics, we’ll consider them more developed than someone who doesn’t. That’s why the man with money is respected more than the man without. The man with knowledge is more than the one without. The man with influence is more than the one without. The one with more age more than the one without.
You know what I’m saying? Because those things have use in devotional service.
So that’s why piety simply means cultivating the elements that are useful for devotional service, but you have no interest in devotional service. So it’s called pious. At least you’re doing the right activities. Does that make sense? You take a pious, cultured Indian who’s following all the different things. They get up in the morning. First thing, go respect the parents and go take their bath and everything like that. Then go do their puja. They won’t eat or do anything until they’ve finished all that. Everything in the house is clean and orderly. When they cook, they follow all the rules of cleanliness. When the elders come and their so-called quote-unquote spiritual authorities, they respect. They respect their scriptures. They’ll sit and listen to scriptures. They can sit for hours. There’s a kirtan of some kind of bhajan. They can sit there and become absorbed, but it all doesn’t have any devotion to it. Now, let’s say this person contacts Krishna consciousness and sees the value of Krishna consciousness and commits himself to Krishna consciousness. What do you have? Now you have a neophyte devotee who hardly knows anything, but their sadhana is probably more advanced than 99.9% of anybody else who’s not from that background.
You know what I’m saying? Just like, for example, you go to Chopati, right? Prabhupada says you only need six hours a day to sleep. Now, that’s a whole yatra that gets by on six hours of sleep. They go to bed every night, 10, 11 o’clock. There are programs like that. They’re up for Mangalarthi. And after Mangalarthi, they’re all sitting there chanting. No one’s falling asleep. And they go the whole day because they’re from a pious background that follows that. That’s what they were doing before they joined.
You know what I’m saying? So it works really well.
So that’s the whole point, is that now there you’ll see the form will be very advanced, but their understanding’s not. But if the intent is right, they’re a pure and hallowed devotee. And someone else who’s not from such a pious background, they have the right attitude, you’ll see all kinds of difficulties in their trying to develop the Vaishnava skills, you know, skills and etiquette. But if the attitude is right, then it works. And it’s just a matter of time. So it’s just a matter of time before, you know, everything works out for anybody.
Does that sound right?
Yes. In the previous point about there’s some mechanics which a child would use which are not useful, right? So that’s when sometimes we have doubts. And things clearly have to revolve, which if it’s a reflection, it wouldn’t be. It’s just that the potential’s there, but nobody uses it for that purpose. Is that the understanding? Yes, that’s there. And also there’s so many things that you don’t deal with because at the same time here it’s simply for sense gratification, there it’s not.
You know what I’m saying? You know, so all the different things, like Krishna choose paan there in the spiritual world. But it’s just part of the culture and everything. It helps to digest them. But the problem is is we get overly distracted by these things.
You know what I’m saying? So, therefore, even things that are bona fide in the spiritual world are not here because they’re meant, means, in other words, the things that are meant directly for Krishna’s enjoyment, like that, then we’re very, very careful about that. They’re there in the deity worship, but in our own life they may be somewhat restricted because only those elements that are neutral enough, that means we could appreciate the concept that they’re not for sense gratification.
Does that make sense? Yeah.
Yeah. So, then it works. Like that. You know, it takes care of things, but at the same time it works. In the spiritual world they do more. At the same time, there’s applications here that they wouldn’t use in the spiritual world.
Does that make sense?
Okay.
So, here it’s making a distinction. Even within the initiated devotee, it’s the intent. So, if the chanting is offenseless, that is your pure, unalloyed Vaishnava. Right? So, in this case, neophyte would mean, what would neophyte mean in this category?
Somebody who chants but is offenseless. No, no, no. Here it’s saying, neophyte here, although he may be, apparently be a neophyte, he still has to be considered a pure unalloyed. If he chants, a person who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly.
So, what’s the characteristic we’re looking at here? Someone from a different cultural background? Yeah, you could say. But I’m just saying it’s just within something where they define. How do you define? What’s one of the definitions of a neophyte?
He can’t deal with the devotees properly. No, but here he’s defenseless. Lack of knowledge.
In other words, he doesn’t know so much about the Shastra. Like Kashi Mishra, he’s one of the Lord’s eternal associates. And being a Mishra, he’s a Brahman. But he’s not, he doesn’t spend his time studying the Shastras. He’s not like Sarvabhauma or the others who, that’s what they do. That’s part of their service. It’s just like, of all the gopis, Tunga Vidya, she is well studied. She knows all the, that’s why I said Vidya. She knows all the scriptures. So if there needs to be any quote from scriptures the gopis want to use or something in a discussion with Krishna, then she’ll be the one that’ll step forward.
You know what I’m saying? But the others, they know the purport, but they don’t necessarily know all the verses. She does.
You know what I’m saying? So here the point is is that when it comes to an argument, it’s like he’s only interested in pure devotion. So he’s not interested in being involved in mundane art because in the spiritual world there is no argument.
So he just doesn’t have the interest to do that kind of service. So he doesn’t know. So from that category he’s counted as a neophyte.
But a neophyte, pure unalloyed Vaishnava.
You know what I’m saying?
So that’s the whole thing is that it’s not that if there’s some fault somewhere everything is thrown out. It’s a matter of you have to be able to analyze. That’s what we’re seeing in this is one, you learn the knowledge and then you learn how to analyze with the knowledge. Right? That’s the two aspects of learning. How to study something systematically.
We found the technical term for it. No, no, no. It’s even more specific. Like that means they’re really high end academic terms that probably most academics wouldn’t even know what you’re talking about.
Okay. Okay.
Seriatim. Means serially. Seriatim. There’s the seriatim study. And then when you get into the details and analyze that’s the elucidatory.
Good, no? Yeah.
Yeah, so. Because otherwise the academics when we say chronological as it is the time of the conversation is going into chronology. But they get grumpy about the terms. So we’ll pull this one out of their hat and they won’t even know what we’re talking about. So that’ll be fine. Yeah. Okay. So does this make sense? So in other words not only is it being in the proper line or the proper knowledge but it’s having the proper attitude. Because you’re going to get proper attitude means proper attitude is going to get you praying. If you don’t have the proper attitude that’s going to slow you down more than any kind of knowledge or technique.
Right? That you’re learning knowledge and technique in connection with Krishna Conscious of course. That’s service. That’s a symptom of sincerity. But it can also be an element of attachment. Just like someone’s not interested it’s also a symptom of attachment.
You know what I’m saying?
Does that make sense? So these are the things to discern. It’s just a matter of what one’s working with.
Yes, yes.
I mean it’s all it’s still like the aspect of Niyamagraha. You know it’s just the rules are it’s all theirs or what do we care for the rules? We chant Hare Krishna we don’t care for the rules. But try breaking modern rules. That person who said we don’t care for the rules will immediately jump down your throat.
You know? While the one who’s smarter you know you break modern rules he doesn’t even notice.
You know what I’m saying? So that’s the thing. It’s just a matter of you don’t know why therefore you drop it. The other one they don’t drop it but they don’t know why. So in either case both are in ignorance about the actual purpose. But it’s just the choice is in other words of those who don’t know why they’re doing something there’s two categories. One who does it anyway because you’re supposed to and one why should I do it you know like that.
Does that make sense?
But the interesting is if you look at it from the surface then the one is the liberal you know that would be you know that one side and the other would be the conservative. You know in other words one is the one’s the karma and one’s the yajna. But when you go underneath is that who doesn’t do something if they don’t see a benefit from it? The karmis or the mayavadis? The mayavadis.
The karmis they do it because you’re supposed to.
Because they know if I do it I get benefit.
So then you get you know does that make sense? You know so you get all these different things because generally they’re right you know because you have the sahajis and the mayavadis you know karma and yajna but at the same time is that you know depending on how far you take it then you see the positions keep switching.
So in other words these are the two problems that materialists will have. They’ll always have problems in karma and yajna. It’s just whether it’s more on karma or more on yajna. You know with their particular unique you know individual expressive contamination.
My my mundanity is is you know more unique and better than your mundanity. Like that. More sophisticated or you know like that.
Something? Is this why it’s important to have the correct associations and you have the right attitude? Yes yes associations association is important because that’s yeah that’s where you pick up the attitude. That’s the whole point is you see in the spiritual world you catch the right attitude because you’re associating with the right people. Right? In other words if your association is the the how you say the external manifestation of the gopis what was it?
What’s it? That attitude? You know they have the idea that I have a husband?
but there’s the abhiman yeah that that abhiman of in other words the gopis abhiman of I have a husband and that husband in the material world therefore manifests.
Right? So now and that means then there’ll be husband there’ll be co-wives there’ll be children there’ll be other in-laws so if you hang out with them too much and take on their attitude because their attitude is you’re the wife or you’re the lady in the family and you’ve got all your duties here then you’re not going to develop you know prema but if you take up the association of the eternal associates in other words the nitya-siddha gopis then you develop their abhiman you know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So it’s all about association even on the platform of Bhagavata So that’s why from here when we think oh well that’s we’ve heard that no that’s everything so when the acaryas are talking about chanting offenselessly associating with devotees properly hearing Srimad Bhagavatam these are the things that the persons on the level of prema do we’re being given that and we think oh no that’s all no you know what about all these success you know theories and that that’s the real thing that’s something serious no that’s the small time stuff like that Does that make sense? Because in the spiritual world everybody is opulence right? They are the lakshmis the goddesses of fortune right? So they are opulence you know what I’m saying? It’s just like this you have to become rich but you know a hundred dollar bill is already rich right? a hundred dollar bill doesn’t have to become rich it already is rich so you’re doing all the techniques to get that hundred dollar bill but the hundred dollar bill already is a hundred dollar bill you understand? So the goddesses of fortune are already fortunate so they don’t have to become so therefore that element of success that’s not on their mind they are success they’re the personifications of success That’s why they don’t endeavor for success No means all they endeavor for is to please Krishna so that’s the point is those techniques of endeavoring to please Krishna that’s what’s being given by the acharyas and since we have the conditioning that we want to do these other things engage that therefore then you understand? means why do we need an institution?
because it’s necessary to chant Hare Krishna it’s necessary to engage our conditioning that’s why the acharyas establish institutions because it’s for us it’s not the holy name doesn’t require it means they can sit under a tree and then you what are you doing? oh and you tell them oh great and then they’ll sit down and chant also right? but since that’s not what’s going to happen right? they have their family and that requires money and everything like that what is that?
what is that? it’s Bhakti Vinota course isn’t it?
wasn’t it just here we read? about material attachment and facilities didn’t we just read that or no?
because I just got some other quotes just read before class can’t distinguish between them ok ok the two different types of practicing devotees are the householders and the renunciates because the renunciates have no business whatsoever with sense enjoyment they can give up talking about others in all respects but because the householder is engaged in earning, saving, protecting and maintaining the family he cannot completely give up talking about others he should not only he should not talk about others in a way that is detrimental he should talk about others only whatever little is necessary in his Krishna conscious family he should not talk about others without reason ok so that was so here that earning, saving, protecting and maintaining so that takes skills and that takes organization the whole organization is there because of that you know as we saw how much organization social organization is necessary for the brahmachari right he’s got a veranda and there’s a few people he can go beg from and sit down on that veranda he’ll sleep there at night he’ll have his lunch there he’ll have his classes there he’ll hang his clothes to dry there his bucket his bucket, yes does that make sense so where do you need the social organization and everything like that it’s grihastha right so therefore it engages us so it’s perfect and all the acharyas created them right so the point is that’s only in support of hearing and chanting yes yeah but you just tell somebody do this and that’s it it doesn’t require more than that you know what I’m saying so there will be a hierarchy but you don’t have to have committees and other things like that and you know all the huge bureaucracy because somebody hears something they do it they’ve learned the skill they know it like that so there is management that’s a different discussion but the point is you know Lalita Devi organizes the rasalila do you hear about it because all it is is you organize and see that it’s all there because that’s secondary nobody worries about it you know you hear Radharani going into the kitchen and cooking but now it took organization that that kitchen is there and all the ingredients are there right but you don’t hear about that Mother Yashoda has done that you just hear about how Mother Yashoda her affection for Krishna and the interaction so in other words management is very important but it’s only to support that interaction I just thought because we’re going to be the ones that are doing we’re not going to be doing what Mother Yashoda is doing what do you mean not doing what Mother Yashoda is doing well we’re going to be assisting in that so yeah but that it would be more important for us to know that how to manage no but the point is if you don’t manage something with the same attitude then how there will be any use so the point is it’s still attitude if one chants the Hare Krishna mantra while committing offenses these unwanted creepers will grow one should not take advantage of chanting the Hare Krishna mantra for some material profit the unwanted creepers have been described by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur he states that if one hears and chants without trying to give up offenses one commits one becomes materially attached to sense gratification in other words one may be committing offenses but one’s trying to give them up then that’s progressive but if one thinks no what’s wrong with that or one’s doing it specifically for cultivating those aspects then is it important to know a lot of things about the or it’s just enough to know that chanting the Hare Krishna you like the person what do you ask you want to know their background or this so that’s the whole point means in other words if there’s an interest in the relationship sambandha then you want to know about the person so Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur states that if one hears and chants without trying to give up offenses one becomes materially attached to sense gratification one may also desire freedom from material bondage like the Mayavadis or one may become attached to the yoga siddhis and desire wonderful mystic powers if one is attached to wonderful material activities one is called siddhi-lobhi greedy for material perfection so wonderful material activities so it’s either mystical the siddhis or just you want wealth power fame all these different things like that one may also be victimized by diplomatic or crooked behavior or one may associate with women for illicit sex others may make a show of devotional service like the prakriti sahajiyas or one may try to support his philosophy by joining some caste or identifying himself with the support of family tradition one may become a pseudo guru or so-called spiritual master one may become attached to the four sinful activities illicit sex intoxication gambling and meat -eating or one may consider a Vaishnava to belong to a mundane caste or creed one may think this is a Hindu Vaishnava and this is a European Vaishnava a European Vaishnava is not allowed to enter the temples in other words one may consider Vaishnavas in terms of birth thinking one a Brahmin Vaishnava a Shudra Vaishnava a Mleccha Vaishnava and so on one may also try to carry out a professional business or chanting the Hare Krishna mantra or reading Srimad Bhagavatam because you have you do kirtan you do all these things because of because you’ll get the you know particular benefits from that so one has to be very very careful these are all the different things so one may identify one materially one might identify oneself materially one may take advantage of using as you know does that make sense so these are all offenses as he’s saying why they’re being brought up because these will then slow down the chanting process or one may increase his monetary strength by illegal means one may also try to be a cheap Vaishnava by chanting in a secluded place for material adoration or one may desire mundane reputation by making compromises with non-devotees that wasn’t really that may slide under the water one may mundane reputation oh we’re very good we’re nice you know always the society will be respected and all that by making compromises with non-devotees the point is the others aren’t compromising so that’s the issue with the political correctness yeah yeah political correctness let us say you have a carbon what is it a zero carbon footprint right a company has a zero carbon footprint how do they have a zero carbon footprint right the factory is right there you know in Jersey how do they have a zero carbon footprint no no no let’s say according to their concept they buy it means they have huge tracts of empty land it’s just forest in some other country you know what I’m saying so that puts out so much good vibes and then let’s say that has a hundred you know units of good vibes so that means my factory can put out a hundred units of bad vibes I can pollute I can do that up to a hundred if I do a hundred and one then I don’t have a zero footprint so if I want to do two hundred I buy more land you understand so all it is it’s compromising it’s not real there’s no such thing as real material good it doesn’t exist even countries are dealing with these positive footprints in abstractions now it’s not actual land it’s just like what do you call it on the stock market you deal in something that doesn’t exist you know I’m buying corn that’s not there and someone else is selling it you know it’s like okay okay one may desire mundane reputation when they can compromise with non devotees compromising one’s philosophy or spiritual life or one may become a supporter of a hereditary caste system all these are pitfalls of personal sense gratification right now he’s quoting from Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur so that was 1900 and what? 1920 yeah and then we’re thinking today is unique and he’s simply articulating in English what Bhaktivinoda Thakur was saying from the mid 1800s you know what Rupa Goswami was talking about in the 1500s you know does that make sense? quoting from the Avanti Brahmin and others from millions of years ago you know there’s no such thing as there’s a modern thing now that’s unique and different it’s always exactly the same thing you know what I’m saying it’s pants whether you have pleats or not you know or whether it’s made out of you know wool, silk or out of some sail material from fishermen from South India otherwise now known as jeans jean material comes from it’s what they make the sails of their fishing boats from in South India it’s a super strong cloth so it doesn’t get ripped in storms so that cloth is what they make jeans out of does that make sense? it’s still the same thing money for old?
money for old rope yeah or yeah so in other words it’s cloth of fishermen worn by people who herd cows to the slaughterhouse that’s jeans yeah well it’s definitely not going to sell it’s definitely not going to sell okay just to cheat some innocent people one may make a show of advanced spiritual life and becomes known as a sadhu mahatma or religious person all this means that the so called devotee has become victimized by all these unwanted creepers and that the real creeper of Bhakti Lata Bija has been stunted Chaitanya Charita Mita Madhya Lila 1960 report okay okay so we’ll stop here and then tomorrow we get the link between Amma Parada and full blown deviation so we have to be able to distinguish between someone who’s in the Sampradaya but it’s not Amma Parada and that what’s full blown deviation is for Sampradaya Om Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare I put it in the front of this tattoo that I put it in front of this that I put it in front of this that I put it that I put it in front of this tattoo tattoo
