Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #61

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #61

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Saha namam tu, saha nao bhunaktu, sahabhir yankarabhavahai, tejasvinamadhitamastumavidvishavahai.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Om Jaya Sri Krishna, Caitanya, Prabhu, Nityananda, Sri Advaitha, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krishna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport, in verses 18 and 19, We may find some repetition in the descriptions of the qualifications of a devotee, but this is just to emphasize the fact that a devotee must acquire all these qualifications. Without good qualifications, one cannot be a pure devotee. Harav abhaktasya-kuto mahad-gunaḥ. One who is not a devotee has no good qualification. One who wants to be recognized as a devotee should develop the good qualifications. Of course, he does not extraneously endeavor to acquire these qualifications, but engagement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service automatically helps him develop them.

So these qualities are necessary because these are the qualities that Kṛṣṇa functions with. But they’re not developed separately on their own. They’re developed in relationship to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When you’re Kṛṣṇa conscious, you perform an activity, and that activity then is based on your knowledge, and so that knowledge will be contemplated. So the situation will be contemplated. By contemplating what you have to do with the proper knowledge, then you will see that these qualities are required. So that’s how, then, they’ll be cultured, cultivated, you understand? They’re not cultivated separate from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because the point is this. They’re not connected to Kṛṣṇa. They’re not interesting to Kṛṣṇa, right? Because they’re already His quality. So why is He going to be interested in something that’s not connected to Him, right? So that’s the base. So Prabhupāda’s saying here, therefore, but engaging in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service automatically helps him develop them, right? So now, being conscious of Kṛṣṇa, then, how do you say, to perform that service there must be devotion, right? And that devotion means then it has to be to please Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa’s pleased when that service is done with these qualities, right? That makes sense? So we also see here how Prabhupāda’s also split it to show how you have to be conscious of Kṛṣṇa, and then it should be favorable to Kṛṣṇa by being devotional, right? So becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious and then developing that devotion, they’re one process, but we see the two aspects. Because we’re conscious of māyā, so we become conscious of Kṛṣṇa, right? And being conscious of Kṛṣṇa, we engage in devotional activities, right? So this also would split between those who are practicing devotional service in the way of becoming conscious of Kṛṣṇa. So they’re performing the buddhi-yoga, right? And then those who are devotional service means they’ve come to the platform where they’re practicing pure, you know, that pure application of this, right? Does that make sense, the, you know, that, the different, the kevala-bhakti, the ahaitukhi-bhakti, like this? So, because Kṛṣṇa’s making this distinction, simply so that you know, but it’s all seen as one process, right? Like the aṣṭanga-yoga, it’s one process, but it has the neophyte stage and the advanced stage, right? So in the same way as then the devotional process has the lower stages and then the advanced stages.

According to Śrīla Viśvarācākavarī Ṭhākura, all these qualities are spiritual because Kṛṣṇa’s satisfied only by devotion and never by material qualities, right? So it’ll be spiritual because it’s connected to Kṛṣṇa. Something’s not spiritual simply because it’s not connected to Kṛṣṇa. That’s all. So illusion means it’s not connected to Kṛṣṇa. Spiritual means it’s connected to Kṛṣṇa. Does that, does that make sense? Yes? Will it be called pure devotional service if a person performs it without those qualities? Will it be pure devotional service if he performs it without the qualities?

It means the pure devotion means that it’s being done to please Kṛṣṇa, right? It’s not, our interest in it is not the prominence, right? It means in the conditioned state, then we perform an activity according to our nature because of the result that we want, right? But pure devotional service means that the result’s not for us, it’s for Kṛṣṇa. So we’re doing the activity just to please Kṛṣṇa, right? So that’s the basis. So then more advanced would be when one goes beyond where, you know how you say, yeah, means the pleasure of Kṛṣṇa is what you’re trying to obtain. You engage your nature in that, right? But if the interest is in the activity itself or the results of the activity, but then that’s connected to Kṛṣṇa, then that’s, how you say, wouldn’t be categorized as pure devotional service, but it’s still devotional service, right? Because it’s karma yoga, jñāna yoga. You’re connecting the knowledge aspect or the resultant aspect, right? But it’s based on your interest.

Does that make sense?

So naturally, the qualities have to develop like that. Does that make sense? Because these qualities then are, you know, just they’re determined to do service and all these different things. So that’s what makes it not envious, kind, who does not think of himself a proprietor, free from false ego, equal in both happiness and distress, like this. So these are the qualities, then it will work very nicely, that your Kevalabhata will have this, right? Or at least, you know, to some degree being manifest. That’s the basis, because, how do you say, you have to be in line. The quality is what is being obtained by his internal potency, right? And we can be an instrument in that process. So that means, then, the quality is the goal, the quality is the process, but the quality also has to be the situation. Because Krishna is everything, he’s the beginning, he’s the middle, he’s the end. You saw here in devotional service, perform devotional service with faith, making Krishna the goal, right? So they have faith, so that means there’s connection with that quality. Krishna is the goal, so that’s that quality. And then, so therefore, they’ll perform the devotional activity. Because unless it has that quality, how will the transformation take place that you’ll get a result?

You know what I’m saying? An orange will transform into orange juice. You can’t take an orange, put it in the machine, and out will come grape juice, you understand? Because it doesn’t have the quality. So there has to be that commonality. So that common quality is then what then is, you can then take part in the activity, that then there’s transformation, and you get the result.

Does that make sense? So some degree, qualities have to be there, but it’s not that it’s necessarily come to its most ideal stage yet, you know what I’m saying? So in other words, even as we’re developing the qualities, that’s why it’s called sadhana bhakti, because qualities will still develop.

Does that make sense?

I just want to engage one’s own independent application of devotional service, so to see whether they have many degrees of application of devotional service, some will apply it in one way, some will apply it in another way, you know, maybe some divergence, but the goal is to please Krishna, so then, is it that one just takes the application on its merit, and then, because then we see that we can get into conversations about how it should be this way, how it should be that way, you know, trying to generalize the standard and you get into, like, getting into the deeper, but then you lose the principle of just pleasing the Krishna. So is there an application in the independence of applying Krishna consciousness that would then be the result of gaining Krishna consciousness?

Means, independence is engaged because, means independence indicates that there is a particular nature, and so the expression of that nature, then that’s where the independence is generated from. So the point is, is if it’s properly connected to Krishna, but one has to understand the Otherwise, to discuss a point, if you don’t understand its basis, then it won’t necessarily be so fruitful, because you don’t understand all three aspects, like that. So that’s the point, is to understand, you know, all this.

Yes.

Levels, there’s always levels, because, I mean, just we’re taking, you know, the famous verse by Rupa Goswami describes Shraddha, the prema, so then you’re dealing with mind levels there. So basically you have three main levels, you know, the neophyte, the madhyama and the uttama, right? So your neophyte, the quality may be manifest, may be not manifest. The madhyama basically is manifest, you know, and your uttama, then it’s, you know, in its most proper degree, because you’re not dealing with the mundane qualities, you’re only dealing with spiritual qualities. While the madhyama means the qualities have been developed through the process, or the qualities were there from the conditioned state and have been properly, fully engaged, right? Well, the neophyte will mean the quality is not, is, if it’s there, it’s still for themselves, right? Though they’re connecting it to Krishna, so that means then it’s good. You understand? So there’s always going to be, why I’m, because you could look at it that pure devotional service is going to be defined by having these qualities, but the difficulty comes is then how does one define that quality?

That’s the difficulty, because if we simply say, well, unless you have these qualities, it’s not pure devotional service, which basically speaking is, fundamentally speaking is true, but the problem comes as our definition of these qualities. It has to be Krishna’s definition, means it’s connected to the Lord. That’s the point, that it’s connected to the Lord, so it’s been Krishnized. It may not be, you know, on its perfect platform, because Krishnized means, it doesn’t mean perfect, in the way of its manifestation is to the completest form it can be, but it means it’s connected, right? The body is Krishnized, but the body is still temporary, right? But if you can function always with a Krishnized body, then that means you are comfortable with the fact of having an eternal body that, you know, is only interested in engaging in Krishna’s service. Does that make sense?

Right? So to avoid it being misunderstood or misinterpreted that, well, unless they’re perfect, if there’s any fault, there can’t be devotional service, because we saw before, Krishna was very strong on this point. If someone’s performing devotional service, even if there’s some strong distraction, if their focus is specifically on Krishna, then that will go away with time, very shortly then everything will work out. Does that make sense? So this element is important to see, because otherwise we may have our own definitions of what we would call non-envious, right? In other words, for someone, non-envious means you’re supportive of them. If you’re not supportive of them, you’re envious. I wanted to do this, and they said, no, don’t do this, so they’re envious.

That’s many times a very practically applied definition of envy in a general assembly.

You know what I’m saying? So therefore, then what would they say? They can’t be a pure devotee. That might be offensive.

So therefore, what we have to understand is that these qualities may be manifest or not, but the main quality of the twenty-six qualities of a devotee is their faith in that surrendered to Krishna. If that’s there, then you don’t worry so much about if the other ones are manifest or not. Like Bhima.

When we say the name Bhima, does humility spring to our mind?

Yeah, you know, and then saying nice poetries, is that what springs to mind?

No, but it doesn’t mean he’s not humble, because he’s doing these things just for Krishna. So he only sees himself as an instrument, but he’s very happy to take a very prominent and dynamic role in his being an instrument. You understand? So that’s why these are the qualities so one contemplates in one’s own practice. And if one is helping others, one helps in this, but one has to show its practical application. But if we ourselves judge others in this way, then there’s a good chance we’ll make a mistake. So the point is for this, who is he speaking it to? Arjuna. And what is Arjuna supposed to do with this?

Understand and fight means he’s using it for himself. He’s supposed to understand this and apply it to everybody else. He’s supposed to apply it to himself. So that’s the point. Self-realization means it’s applied on yourself. Because if you can apply it on yourself, then you’ll be able to apply it on others. If you can’t do it, then it’s very difficult to heal someone else.

Does that make sense?

Okay. Srila Prabhupada summarizes chapter 12 as follows, right? So then he’s saying, so Viswanatha is saying they’re spiritual because they’re connected to Krishna. So it’s not mundane qualities. So just to get, say, no, but the karmis are so nice and everything, but that’s not interesting to Krishna. Nice, great, then connect them to Krishna. The devotee seems to be satisfied and just, you know, they’re nice. So is that good enough? Right? I like associating with the karmis better than the devotees because the karmis, and they’re so pleasant and nice and, you know, socially interactive. So is that a good situation?

Why not? Because in their association, you will take their association also. Yeah, you’ll take, you’ll develop. So is the quality the problem? That’s the attraction here. Oh, they’re so gentle. They’re so considerate.

Right? So is the problem the gentleness and the consideration? No. So what’s the problem?

The purpose of it. So their application of gentleness and consideration is not spiritual. So therefore, it’s not actually a good quality because the quality is Krishna.

Right? So they’re manifesting the, they’re going through the operational, you know, cause and getting the material cause that is the reflection of that quality. But it’s not actually the quality because the quality is Krishna.

Right? So they don’t see it in connection to Krishna. You see it in connection to Krishna, then the quality is spiritual.

Right? So it’s not just enough that it’s good, it’s nice, it’s pleasant, it’s wonderful. That’s not good enough because if it’s not connected to the Lord, then it’s mundane.

Does that make sense? So we may be dealing with a materialist who has good qualities, but we’ll see the quality connected to Krishna. Therefore, you’re not actually associating.

Yes, it means you give association, you don’t take because you’re seeing in connection to Krishna. So you’re into, but the interactions look the same. But you’re seeing connection to Krishna. So therefore, they’re in touch with the actual quality. You know, it’s just like, let’s say there’s a generator and there’s a electric line. So now to appreciate the current, do I have to touch the generator directly? No, I can touch this line. Right? So therefore, is by associating with the devotee, they don’t know what it is, but they’ll appreciate there’s something there because they’re good qualities, you know, in the way of nice and pleasant and that, and you’re being the same, but you’re different than the others. Why? That’s the thing that will attract them. So they know the quality, you know, just like someone who knows food, then he can tell the difference between food. So in here, they know these good qualities, so they can tell the difference, that there’s something different about this person’s application of the good quality.

So they’ll get attracted, but they don’t understand they’re getting attracted to Krishna. They think it’s just the good quality. So by association, then you can train them about Krishna.

Because as we said, Vedanta is the universal religion, so it can be explained to anyone. Right? These other philosophies and that, they’ll be specific for a specific condition nature. So it’ll work there. It won’t work for someone else. Right? But Vedanta works for anyone because it’s the universal religion, so you can explain it to anyone. It crosses all barriers. It’s the only thing that does. Other things don’t cross all barriers.

Right? Make sense?

Śrīla Prabhupāda summarizes Chapter 12 as follows. In this chapter, from verse 2 through the end, from maya adheśyam ano ye mām, fixing the mind on Me, through ye tu dharmāmbṛtam idam, this religion of eternal engagement, the Supreme Lord has explained the process of transcendental service for approaching Him. Such processes are very dear to the Lord. He accepts a person engaged in them. The question of who is better, one who is engaged in the path of impersonal Brahman or one who is engaged in the personal service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, was raised by Arjuna. And the Lord replied to him so explicitly that there’s no doubt that devotional service to the Personality of Godhead is the best of all processes of spiritual realization.

So here, this element, fixing the mind on Me, through the religion of eternal engagement.

So that’s what’s been, fixing the mind on Kṛṣṇa, right, through devotional engagement. So now, he’s mentioning this is very dear to the Lord. So what do we gain from here? So of all these different aspects, then we see is that element of engagement, that’s the central feature. And then that engagement is being done, is focused on Kṛṣṇa, right? So being focused on Kṛṣṇa without engagement, or engagement without focus on Kṛṣṇa, right, or understanding the situation, developing knowledge and not focusing, that’s not so important, right? So, means, or you have knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, that’s great, but then how are you going to express the devotion? You have to act, right? You have attachment to Kṛṣṇa. You want to please Kṛṣṇa. How do you express that? Through action. So action becomes the central feature, right? That’s always the thing. So that’s, Kṛṣṇa then gets, it pleases Him when we are attempting to apply ourselves into this devotional process and please Him through, you know, performing service with these qualities.

Right? So that process, that pleases Kṛṣṇa.

So it’s that attempt. Yes? The application of the social structure to support it. How important is it to have the social structure?

Devotional service is not dependent upon anything. It means we being attached to the material energy and dependent upon it. Therefore, the more favorable the situation, the easier it is to engage. But it doesn’t actually generate devotional service. That’s why an attempt to establish varṇāśrama, just because varṇāśrama is good, has never worked. It has to be seen in connection with devotional service. If it’s seen as service, but then that means the discussions on varṇāśrama would be based on philosophy and basically administration, how to apply that there, right? But when devotees discuss it, it’s simply based on money, basically, and then social situations on actually who has the money, you know, for them. So the social structure is who has and who doesn’t. So Gṛhastha should have the money, the brahmacārīs, vānaprastha, sannyāsīs shouldn’t, you know. And then in it, then, you know, brāhmaṇas don’t have it, kṣatriyas, of course, they have it, vaiśyas are generated, they got plenty of it, śūdras, you know, don’t need any, right? So you kind of limit it down that, you know, basically three out of five have the money, and then how to organize, structure the society, the social system that ensures that they have the money and the others don’t. So you’ll never be able to establish vārāṇāśrama because vārāṇāśrama isn’t economically based, right? It’s daiva-vārāṇāśrama means it’s based in, rooted in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So unless you understand Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy and how it applies, because vārāṇāśrama is a mechanical system, so if you don’t understand the mechanics of devotional service, you’ll never understand the mechanics of vārāṇāśrama. It’s not possible.

Does that make sense?

Mahārāja, I understand the yoga has two parts, one mechanical and one less. Could I say that we are still looking at the mechanical without getting to the yoga root of vārāṇāśrama? Yes, you could say that means they don’t know the essence. It’s never discussed that kṣatriya means protection. I’ve never heard that as a discussion. When big, big managers get together and discuss, I’ve never heard protection ever used as a word in any connotation or any context.

You know, other than to protect the devotees from bad example of authority.

You know, other than we have to protect the devotees. No, but they don’t know what protection means. Therefore, the process of protection hasn’t worked.

You know what I’m saying, because you don’t know what it is. When we discuss vaiśyas, as much as they make money, they’re supposed to give it away. That’s never discussed either. Temple presidents, of course, discuss that, but they discuss how to give it away, not how they’re going to generate it. You know what I’m saying? So the problem is, is there’s never a balance, because they don’t understand the balance of the devotional process. You understand how the devotional process works, how it balances, then you can understand vārāṇāśrama. Because vārāṇāśrama is simply the social environment to apply devotional service. You know what I’m saying? It’s like this. If you don’t understand cooking, can you understand what a kitchen is? How will you know, is this a good kitchen? And what is everything in the kitchen for, if you don’t know what cooking is? So that’s the point. You don’t know what devotional service is in technical detail. You cannot understand vārāṇāśrama. But it’s never seen as synonymous.

You know what I’m saying? The devotees who are very expert in the devotional process, they’re never, like, referred to when there’s discussions of vārāṇāśrama.

You know what I’m saying? Devotees are expert, let’s say, in nectar devotion and all these other things. They’re not the ones in these discussions. They’ll always look, you know, who’s a big manager, who’s good in economics. Oh, he’s a good, you know, businessman, makes lots of money, so he should be on the… And then, you know, this person’s into farming, and so he should be in this new things like this and that. And this person over here, you know, he’s in the management, and definitely wants to make sure that you don’t have anything happen, that he doesn’t want to happen, so he wants to be involved. You know? You know what I’m saying? Throw in a few intellectuals that have read a whole lot on it. And there’s your vārāṇāśrama committee.

Right? Sound familiar? Right? And so, has it ever been successful? No, because where is the knowledge of the devotional process? Means the mechanics of it. Vārāṇāśrama’s mechanics, it’s not just a philosophy, it’s mechanics. So if you can’t understand the philosophy, how the philosophy applies in mechanics, you won’t understand how the philosophy applies in vārāṇāśrama.

You know what I’m saying? If you can’t drive a car, it’s not that, OK, he can’t drive this car, but he’ll be able to drive that car. No, he doesn’t know how to drive.

You know what I’m saying? So, this is the mistake.

So that’s the thing. So this religion of eternal engagement, you have to understand what sanātana-dharma is. Right? It’s a more broad, general category where you say Brahman, and there’s a nature of a Brahman. But vārāṇāśrama, sanātana-dharma means what’s the nature of anything.

You know what I’m saying?

Let’s say, why are there birds in the spiritual world?

What do they do? You see them. They sing, they create a nice environment, so they add to the environment. You understand? So therefore, then, you know, birds here, that’s their business.

Right? So, if you can’t see that, how are you going to see how a Brahman works? If you can’t understand a bird, how are you going to understand a Brahman?

You know what I’m saying? That’s the thing, is that they can’t open a can of beans, but they’re going to sit around and talk about a 14-syllable Ferrari engine.

You know? This is the problem.

No?

What could I say more? Yeah.

Yeah. So, of this, then the impersonal is becoming, you know, you may become God-conscious, but it’s on the lower, it’s the lowest of the three. Right? It’s superior to material engagement.

Right? But the difficulty is, is that it’s the lowest level of God-realization. So, for God-realization, that means you understand the person, and then you perform devotion towards that person. That’s the supreme transcendental activity.

Right? Because this other is not so fulfilling, because you’re not dealing with qualities.

Summaries of Chapters 7-12 The middle six chapters of Bhagavad-gītā deal with pure devotional service. Kṛṣṇa starts in Chapter 7 by imparting sambandha -jñāna, knowledge about cit, acit and īśvara, and the connection between them. The result of this knowledge is that one develops firm faith in Kṛṣṇa, and begins the process of devotional service.

So this knowledge is there, because before that it’s been pointed out, but it’s not so specific. So then we can actually see is what’s happening here, is that what’s described in the first six chapters, right, it means that the karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, they’re actually the fundamental positions from which the pure devotional service is applied. Because now that’s the mechanics of how they work. Then you apply cit, acit, īśvara in that relationship, then you actually see the proper consciousness in which this is done. So when the consciousness is proper, right, then we see that becomes pure devotional service. The consciousness is still not quite to the proper standard, then we’ll say it’s karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, right? But otherwise, we see when Prabhupāda talks about these aspects, he’s talking about them as pure devotional service. What does that mean? It means the consciousness is according to these chapters, and you’re performing it according to the mechanics of those chapters, right? And that’s just simple basic mechanics, right? After we finish this page, then we’re going to get into, you know, very serious mechanics, right?

So if you can’t understand these two, then no use getting into detail. That’s what he said before. If you can’t understand mechanics of the devotional process, the philosophy and mechanics of that, don’t even bother with the detail of vānaśrama.

Like that. Does that make sense?

So that’s… In chapter 8, answering Arjuna’s question, the Lord explains the essence of this process, how one should remember Him at the time of death, right? Because remembering Him is the point, but the point of remembering Him is you want to remember on the eternal platform. But the point is what defines what platform you’re on in your next life.

Yes. So remembrance at the time of death determines that. So that means this is very essential. So that means if you’re not remembering Kṛṣṇa and He’s your shelter, because at the time of death you’re going to take shelter of something, right? Why? Because death means the unknown. So that means one becomes insecure. So what do you do? The mind goes to that which will generate security. So if that’s Kṛṣṇa, then you go back to Godhead. And if it’s your mommy, then you’re back here again.

You know? You know, someone’s saying that, I don’t know about recently, but some years back when they, you know, they get that black box from the airplanes after the crash, and they say most of the time the last thing they hear on the black box is the pilot saying, Mommy.

Like that. So.

You know, so it’s a serious process.

This is the captain speaking.

Mommy. Well, that one generally is off the air. On the air is, now you may think of your God of your, pray to your God of your choice. And then after that they turn it off and go, Mommy.

Simply by such remembrance the devotee obtains the spiritual world from where he never returns. On the other hand, in order to reach the impersonal brahmajyoti, the jnanis and yogis are obliged to follow strict procedures pertaining to the time they leave the body. So if they don’t leave at the right time, even though they’re doing everything perfect, they don’t get a superior result. Right? It means they’ll be on a lower level. Like that. They won’t attain what they’re trying to get.

Having answered Arjuna’s question in chapter nine, the Lord continues the topic he discussed in chapter seven. The samandha-jnana, which inspires devotion. The Lord describes in more detail His supreme position and the inconceivable relationship with His energies. Acintya-veda-veda-tattva.

So this has been given before, but now He’s bringing out this element like this that we’ll see is that that will be given in more detail in the Bhagavatam.

But here He’s giving it through these things. He’s explaining His energies and how He’s pervading everything. But the point is His qualities are pertaining, and His energies then manifest those qualities.

The essence of this knowledge is that one should always think of Krsna, become His devotee, and perform devotional service in order to please Him. So even you’re seeing Krsna in everything, you’re seeing that Param Brahman platform, but the essence is to surrender to Krsna and render devotional service. So just seeing it’s not enough. Okay, seeing it will bring you to the transcendental platform, but it’s not enough. It’s not the supreme transcendental platform. So only the supreme transcendental platform, one can be eternally situated. Because the Brahman platform, that platform can be lost, right? Or will be lost if it’s not connected to Krsna as in the personal feature and devotion. Because it’s in relationship to Krsna that is eternal. Right? Means that you see it connected to Krsna. That’s good. You’re seeing the eternal platform. To be situated there, then you have to have a relationship with Krsna. That will then keep what? Keep it eternal. Right? Otherwise, then you’re simply seeing. It’s knowledge. Right? And so then one comes back to the material platform again. Right? Yes. Yes.

We never return at all? Or we return under certain conditions?

Okay, let us say you’re in India. Okay? And you have an Indian passport. Okay? So that means you’re Indian. Right? And you’re here. Okay? Let us say you go to America and you get an American passport. So you can stay in America. Right? But if you come to India, are you an Indian?

Sorry? Why would you want dual citizenship in this point? You don’t catch the analogy.

Why would one want to be a citizen of the spiritual world and the material world at the same time?

You understand? I’m only using it this way because Indians think somehow another American is Suvarna Loka or something. Right?

Try driving through West Virginia. Like that. You could also try Louisiana.

But the point is that one is here performing activities but one’s not a citizen of here. You understand? That’s the point. So the acaryas, they may come here and preach but they’re not citizens of the world. You understand? That’s the point.

In chapter ten, Arjuna, after hearing and understanding this knowledge, fully surrenders to Krsna. In this way, Arjuna demonstrates the actual result of transcendental knowledge. Because the transcendental knowledge here, Krsna’s not defining it, it’s simply understanding the Brahman platform. But you must understand it in relation to Krsna. Because already before he said you have to work according to your nature connected to Krsna. So that means all these qualities that are described in these chapters about the universal form then technically in their fundaments have been already described in previous chapters. But he’s describing now in more detail but the conclusion is that you have to see this in connection with the person.

Right? In other words, how do you see things and connect that to the person?

Right? Not how you see these and then you free yourself from material entanglement. That’s the previous chapters. Right? This is how you see the detail and see Krsna.

In this way, Arjuna demonstrates… Okay. Arjuna requests Krsna to describe his material manifestations so that even those who do not possess the qualification to see Krsna’s spiritual form will be able to see him through his vibhutis and thus remember him always. And so here also is giving a stage where one doesn’t have that qualification but one can see Krsna in some way. Right? But by the proper association then that will develop until one sees the person in seeing those qualities.

In response to Arjuna’s request Krsna describes his various manifestations but only the principal ones because his manifestations have no end. So, anything that’s there just like, you know… What’s the… Why do you… I mean, let’s… We’ll just take it for granted that you do so we’ll ask this, you know, maybe… Why do you appreciate sitting on this carpet?

Softer than the rocks. Softer than the rocks. Okay. So the softness is appreciated. Right? So in this case for sitting softness is appreciated, not hardness. Right? Now let’s say you have a hammer in the nail. So you’re looking for softness or hardness? Hardness. Right. Okay. So therefore the quality is softness. So it’s manifest here. So that softness in this rug, that’s Krsna.

So like that you can just go on and on and on.

Like that, into anything. Does that make sense? You know, your pen. You have that particular pen. Why that pen? Okay, so the cheapness is Krsna. You understand?

Yes, so therefore… So therefore the quality of… How you say? How you say? Frugal expenditure. You know? Then that is the quality that attracted you to this pen. Because otherwise it’s just dead matter like the other one. Right? You know? Okay.

Does that make sense? So that’s the point is, Krsna can be seen anywhere.

In this way, Arjuna demonstrates the actual result of transcendental knowledge.

Oh, wait, we already did that.

After hearing about Krsna’s supreme position, His inconceivable energies, and His innumerable manifestations, Arjuna requests the Lord to show His universal form, where he can see all of this in one place. It means you’re looking at this, you see this here, you see that there. You know, you may see a couple of things, a group, but to see all that at once, that’s the seeing of the universal form. Right? So that’s the divine eyes, because the devotee doesn’t look like that. He sees one thing, connects it to Krsna. He doesn’t go on and see all these things at once. And that’s his way to see Krsna, is through that manifestation. No, it’s only… It’s only udipana, a way to… It’s a step to get to remembrance of Krsna as a person, and that devotion. Yes?

Yes.

Yeah. Can be. I mean, it’s there, but the point is if it’s connected to Krsna, it means you have this much money, and you want to do this service, so therefore you will look at this plan, pan, and not the ma blank. Right? Because if you look at that, you’ll never have a pan, and you won’t be able to write anything. But this one, he’s writing so much. Right? It’s happening. It’s going on. Right? So that means he’s accomplished it. So the thing is, is control would be where… means you need to make decision, this or that, or somehow to be involved, because otherwise you’re not secure that the facility will be there to get the result you want. Right? But the point is, is it’s to serve Krsna, so therefore even the element of control is not a problem. Control, we are defining, means separate from Krsna. Like sense gratification means it’s separate from Krsna. Engaging the senses in Lord’s service is still the same process. You know? Oh, he’s eating a sandwich. Oh, he’s just absorbed in sense gratification. Oh, this devotee’s taking prasad. He’s eating sandwich. What’s the difference? There isn’t any. You know, maybe you check. Maybe there’s something different on the sandwich.

But the point is, it doesn’t change. So the impersonal concept is sense gratification means any engagement of the senses.

So therefore, spiritual means no engagement of the senses.

Right? So that’s the difficulty. Oh, they’re such enjoyers. What’s the problem if they’re enjoying it? If it’s connected to Krsna.

If it’s not connected to Krsna, that’s the problem.

You know? So if they want to have big elaborate arrangements and big facilities, it’s not a problem. It’s connected to Krsna. Right? You know, it’s a simple, simple Sankirtan day, so therefore, you know, you have, you know, how do you say, dal and popcorn. Right? So, but, you know, and then now it’s a festival day, so now you actually cook subjis and rice and puris and halva, like that. So now the senses are engaged, one’s more elaborate. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? And notice he’s not laughing because there must have been a time he had to eat that.

He knows what I’m talking about. Everyone else is laughing. He was there.

He’s a veteran. You know, so, like that. And so, were you there for the one where they actually put the popcorn in the bags when it was hot? Oh, you missed that one.

So, in other words, senses are being engaged, one’s more elaborate, so you can say, oh, that’s really gross sense gratification. No, it’s a Sunday feast, so no one’s saying that this is gross sense gratification. Right? You know what I’m saying? So, that’s the point, is that it’s not the senses being engaged, it’s whether they’re connected to Krishna or not. That defines, right? Mental speculation, right? We say manana. Manana means contemplating the knowledge, right? And then trying to see it from different angles to understand it, how to apply it. So, if it’s connected to Krishna, it’s not called mental speculation. If it’s not connected to Krishna, it’s called mental speculation. So, therefore, engaging the senses, engaging the mind and intelligence in these two processes, right? You know what I’m saying? So, this is the problem. The person who’s engaged in mental speculation will say engaging the senses is nonsense. And the person who’s engaged in the senses will say mental speculation is nonsense. Right? And so, when you put that into the devotional sphere, then by conditioning, there still may be that concept. But the point is, if it’s connected to Krishna, it’s perfect. That process of analyzing is vichar, right? Yeah, that’s vichar. That’s manana, you know, that you’re contemplating. So, you are engaging what we would call mental speculation. You’re speculating, but it’s based on authority. And it’s for the purpose of seeing the devotional process go properly. And so, you’re judging it against that. So, it’s not, therefore, called mental speculation. Because, like, engaging the senses means that the senses, you know, the sense gratification of the senses is connected to Krishna. You know what I’m saying?

So, that’s the…

Mental speculation is only when its purpose is not devotional service, meaning, actually, mechanically.

But that’s there. But where… What is the impetus of that? One is you’re going to have those who actually are looking at it philosophically.

But what is generally where you hear that from?

OK, yeah, give their own opinion and all that. But… So, then, the difficulty comes is that they’re speculating because they have their own purpose. Right? So, you want something to… You want your own thing to get done. So, then, you bring that up. So, it will be mental speculation, because it’s not technically connected. Or its connection is very weak. You know? Or, you know, so to stop that, then, you know, those in a position of authority will say, don’t speculate. Right? Or, it’s, you know, if you have something, you just want the person to do it. You don’t want them to contemplate it. So, you say, just do it. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? And so, then… But then, the problem with that is if it’s a bona fide activity, then, if the contemplation is well-meant, then, they never had the opportunity to actually understand why they’re doing it. So, then, they may change. So, you’re only getting to do it out of sentiment. You know? So, that’s the difficulty, because then, the intelligence is engaged. Like, just like, take for now, you know, today, 2011.

Is it… Will anybody say it’s a… I mean, you might have somebody say, but in general, is it seen as a bad thing that people are contemplating or engaged in knowledge and activities that would be considered of the New Age, you know, kind of like philosophies and that? Would that be considered bad? Yeah. No, just general society. Not our society. No, it’d be considered progressive, no? Now, let us turn back the clock, you know, 500 years or 600 years. What would be the result of your contemplating engaging in New Age? Yeah. You know, you would be… You would be the… How do you say it? The local village entertainment for the afternoon.

Right? You understand? So, now, is it that… Okay, well, then it was, you know, Christians had a problem with this. And so, today, the people who are involved in the New Age are not Christians, right? Right?

They’re probably the prominent ones that are into this because they’re the only ones that don’t have any subtleties and it’s the only place they can find it.

You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? Jews, they have the Kabbalah, this, that. You know, they’ve been into this stuff for thousands of years, so it’s not something new for them.

And it’s old age, right? New age. But how long does New Age go for? I don’t know. It’s old age. Ever fresh. Always new. Oh, always new, ever fresh. It’s supposed to end in 2012. 2012? Okay. But then what happened to the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, which is after 600 years?

That’s really stretching it, right? 600 years, and that’s the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. But the point is, is that Sunday’s only 500 years, so it’s another 100 years until the dawning is there. But hey, any excuse for a party, right?

Is that okay?

You know what I’m saying? In other words, the engagement is based on the consciousness.

So if that’s proper, then there’s not a problem. If it’s not properly conscious, so that makes the difference for whether it’s speculation or sense gratification. It’s the consciousness. Right? So Vedanta will be the parameter, right? Sorry? Vedanta will be the parameter. Yeah, Vedanta defines it very clearly. But, you know, very clearly. That’s the thing about it, is it’s so scientific, there’s no gaps. All these other philosophies, there’s a gap.

You know, it’s like you take Gautama, okay, or Vaisheshika. No, let’s just take one of them. So, you know, the material world, or yeah, you can take both of them. The material world is there, and it’s giving problem. It ultimately ends in some unfortunate situation or displeasurable situation. So therefore, and the Lord is there. He created it, and He controls the world. So, therefore, if we perform proper activities, but we adjust it in such a way that we remove ourself from the attachment to it, then we’ll become freed from all anxiety.

Okay? So, technically correct.

Now, where is there, where would we say in this, and yeah, and then you’ll be freed from all this, and then, you know, basically there’ll be no existence, you know, or the existence of being the Brahman platform. Where is the, where is a major hole in this philosophy? Means according to what we’re discussing right now. You also remove pleasure. You remove pleasure, but bigger than this. You remove Krishna.

Yeah, you remove Krishna, but they’re saying God’s eternal, and He’ll always be there. So, what’s missing? What’s this big gap missing? Relationship with God. It doesn’t even come up as a discussion.

It’s not important at all.

You know what I’m saying? So, that’s the problem. There’s no, but in Vedanta, there’s no gaps. There’s nothing that’s not discussed. There’s nothing that we can’t discuss. There’s no situation that we cannot apply it to.

That’s the point. It’s so universal. It can apply anywhere and anything. We don’t have to go to something else.

We just don’t have to go to something else.

You know what I’m saying? Means you have a, you know, you have a big eight-lane highway. Can you drive your Lamborghini down it? Let’s say you have a small little side street. Can you drive your Lamborghini down it?

It means, in theory, you could, right? Now, the question is, would you want to? That’s another thing. So, Vedanta philosophy can be applied anywhere, but whether you want to apply it in that area when you have so many other nice areas. But it could be. That’s the point. But these others, you can’t apply it there. You know, some of these things that, you know, how you say, you know, being nice and good and peaceful and tolerant and loving and someone in that, could they discuss, actually, how to best apply the principle of war in a particular situation? Would they be able to discuss it? No, they don’t have any capacity.

You know what I’m saying? So, that’s the difficulty, you know. Or the opposite, how in a situation of war, how you would actually look at it and see, you know, where would it apply that you would be aggressive and where you wouldn’t be.

You know, so that then also has a limit, other than it’s purely political. Okay, forget my work right now, so by Niti, but by Dharma, then there’s a problem. Because you got rid of the problem now, but then later on, it’s another problem.

Does that make sense?

Arjuna’s internal desire is to establish Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krishna displays His universal form, but at the end of the chapter, He explains that His two-handed form of Shavasundara is His original and most confidential form. This form can be seen only by pure devotional service.

Right, so it means these other forms, one can see even one’s not on that platform. You can explain this Brahman platform, and someone who’s not a devotee can see it. Right, it means they have it, you know, it’s like the Taoists are not known for their great devotional content, right? But they’re able to see the universal form element of it, though they can’t explain it this way, because of the chi and the li. Right, the li is the quality, and the chi is the energy and everything that can manifest that quality. Then you have the gross matter through which it’s manifest. So they see the same elements, but they only see it on that point, but where does the quality come from? That they don’t see. So here as you’re seeing it, but the quality comes from somewhere, and that’s a person, and that person then has, you know, his pastimes. Right, because otherwise you’re seeing, okay, the person’s Paramatma, but then comes the Supreme, he has his pastimes with the devotees, that exchange of love. So that’s actually the hardest form to see. So when we take it for granted, you know, it’s just, okay, yeah, here, yeah, here’s a picture of Krishna, you know, it’s no big deal, you know, here in the temple and all that. What we don’t understand is what we’ve been given. This is the rarest thing that has been given so easily. So we take it for granted, and then we go looking for something more difficult. As we see, what’s more difficult?

Yes, but I’m saying in the way of, if we’ve taken two-armed form of Krishna, as that’s easy, you know, if we convert it into the easy and hard in this way, you know, what’s the hard one?

Impersonal path. So therefore, then, look, because that looks like there’s something happening there. But that’s, you know, that’s hard, but that’s for less intelligent.

You know what I’m saying? A donkey’s life is very hard. Is a donkey known as being intelligent? No, right? In Chapter 12, Krishna establishes that his devotees are higher than the impersonalists. The Lord is so merciful to the devotees that he personally delivers them from material existence. This is so because he is detracted by the transcendental qualities described at the end of the chapter. So the impersonal path has to be established as lower. And so the impersonal path means the path of not being able to engage the body, mind, and words in the transcendental process.

So engaging that in devotion, that’s what you’re trying to do.

Because otherwise, just to not engage them, we’ll take that that’s the higher form. It’s not the higher form. Because that’s our problem.

Isn’t it? The sannyasi flies around in the airplane. He has the computer. He has the iPhone. What’s the problem?

There isn’t technically a problem if it’s engaged in Krishna’s service. But why would we think it’s a problem?

It’s supposed to be renounced. Yes, and renounced means? Nothing. Right? Nothing’s engaged. So it’s not the point. Renunciation stands on its own. So by not doing something, that’s higher than doing something. But they’re saying, don’t do something material.

But at the same time, they’re also saying, you can’t do anything spiritual, right? Because you have to engage something. You understand? Or the brahmacharis, the grihasthas, they’re having kids. Right? So then they have a problem with that.

You understand? So that’s the impersonal.

Does that make sense?

So it means it comes back to this many times when we talk about these elements of renunciation. It’s not that the point is not valid, but we’re not applying it properly.

You know what I’m saying? In other words, the point’s good, but you have to take it and use it in Krishna consciousness. But they don’t get any credit for it. Right? Like in Hitu Pradesh, you have Dhamanaka, he’s a jackal, and he is explaining all variety of proper religious principles to get his work of Niti done.

Right? So he’s using Dharma to get his work of Niti done. Not that he cares for Dharma. But his points that they’re making are valid. That’s why they’re in the book. The book is a book for learning. But the person that they’re quoting is misapplying them in his own personal life.

Right? You know what I’m saying? Mechanically he’s done them perfectly because he got the result.

You know what I’m saying? But he’s not going to get any credit for having elevated himself.

You understand? So there’s these very fine overlapping points. Is that if it’s connected, it’s good. If it’s not connected, even if it’s nice, it’s still not good.

Right? That’s the Acintya Veda, Veda Tattva.

Right? So for us, it’s more subtle. You see, other sampradayas, it’s very clear. You do this, you don’t do this, and that’s it. There’s no other question. Here it’s like so much variety.

Srila Prabhupada summarizes Chapters 7 to 12 as follows.

One should try to understand these chapters not by scholarship or mental speculation, but by hearing them in association with devotees. Chapters 7 through 12 are the essence of Bhagavad-Gita. The first six and last six chapters are like coverings for the middle six chapters, which are especially protected by the Lord. If one is fortunate enough to understand Bhagavad -Gita, especially these middle six chapters, in the association of devotees, then his life at once becomes glorified beyond all penances, sacrifices, charities, speculations, etc., for one can achieve all the results of these activities simply by Krsna consciousness.

In the middle six chapters of Bhagavad-Gita, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the relationship between the individual soul and the Supersoul in regard to devotional service are described.

The superior position of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the subordinate position of the individual soul are definitely defined in these chapters.

The living entities are subordinate under all circumstances, but in their forgetfulness they are suffering. When enlightened by pious activities, they approach the Supreme Lord in different capacities, as the distressed, those in want of money, the inquisitive, and those in search of knowledge. So notice, when they are enlightened by pious activities.

doing good work, doing nice things, all these subtle things, the New Age elements, yoga studios, all this, it’s enlightening, right? But, it’s purpose, this purpose is still to get one to the devotional platform. Because someone in that capacity, you know, can surrender to Krsna.

Yes.

Bridge.

But the thing is, is they have not as yet made any old ladies into devotees.

And I doubt that they even know how to play the game.

You have to look at the result. Bridge preaching is nice, but I would say if they’re using that term, and all that, and they actually believe in it, on its own, I would say is, neither they know what they’re bridging, and neither will they ever be able to do it. So I will go to the extent to say, they will never actually be successful.

Because then you’re trying to say is that devotional service is of substance, and the material, you know, endeavor is of substance. And you’re trying to reconcile these two that don’t work out, by taking the platform of the material.

And then in that way, trying to present, you know, by, you know, terms like yukta -vairagya, and these things, you know, don’t be fanatic, and all these kind of elements. Communication, and using all kinds of nice terms that are not actually technically connected to Krsna. And then saying that you’ve made a bridge. Because they can’t actually see. Do you have to bridge? Is there need of a bridge between your face and the reflection in the mirror? What’s the bridge? They’re the same.

But the point is, if you can’t understand that, you’ll think it’s different. Right? So, what happens? Right? Means, you know, a human looks in the mirror, and then what do they see?

Themselves. So, it’s not a problem. There’s no bridge. Now, if a dog looks in a mirror, then what happens? It’s another dog. So, you need a bridge. So, what’s the actual bridge?

What’s the real bridge, so the dog understands that that’s himself?

Consciousness. Knowledge. That’s the bridge. What bridge are they using?

They’re not using that, so it’s not a bridge. So, what they’re talking about, that they’re saying there needs to be a bridge, is there a third quality? Spiritual, material, and then?

So, this is the arrogance, as they think, we need to create something new, because we’re different and unique. You know, we’re not fully, you know, that traditionals like the Indians and that living in a village. You know, we’re Westerners, at the same time as, you know, the importance and the validity of spiritual enlightenment and upliftment. So, we’re in a new category.

You know, and that was almost the exact quote that I’ve heard.

You know what I’m saying? So, I’m not just, I’ve heard this. So, yes?

Oh, okay.

Are they financially independent? What happened when the stock market went down? Are they independent? Independent is, you generate it. If you said, as a farmer, yes. You know, you got your cows, you got your cow dogs, so you got your fertilizer, you don’t need any of their stuff. You got, you know, what do you call it? Heritage seeds. So, you just grow your stuff. That’s independent. They’re not independent.

You know what I’m saying? So, what? They’re independent. They’re independent. Say that again? They’re independent. Financially independent.

So, is New York Temple financially independent from L.A.? Are they dependent upon each other? Is London dependent upon New York? You know, you know what I’m saying? So, our temples, our monasteries are financially independent.

you know, what about our, you know, we’re a community of financially independent monasteries.

You know what I’m saying? You know, it’s nice that they’re recognizing this, that, but the problem is to recognize that financially independent individual. You know, can he recognize the monastery? He says, we’re not a monastery. What? We don’t have, I mean, in the BTG, then those back, you know, four pages are wrong. We don’t have temples anymore. He says, what do you mean? We’re not a monastic society. When were we? We’re an international society. That means anybody can be involved.

It means they can’t relate to the monastery or see the importance of it. So, how are they going to have a solution?

Right? One person with keyhole vision is talking to a different person with a different keyhole vision.

Right? Are they going to work it out? Okay, let’s say you get a whole bunch of people together that have the same keyhole vision. Will they work out all the problems? No. So, therefore, what do they mean?

You know, this is a universal religion.

And if they can’t see that, that’s why they think that there’s a need for some new approach. There’s no need for a new approach. What we have to do is use our actual approach we have. That’s going to work. Nothing else is going to work. Prabhupada worked. They’ll say, but the problem is, they’ll think, oh, that was the 60s and 70s. No, that wasn’t. That was Prabhupada. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati was doing the same thing in his time.

You know what I’m saying? And they were, you could say, a touch more conservative back in the 20s and 30s. You know what I’m saying? At least some of them. Maybe the flappers weren’t.

Yes? Does that make sense?

According to Kozak.

Kardec. I have no idea. The point is, it doesn’t matter what the scripture is. What’s the point they want to make?

They can.

But the point is, they actually have to know what they’re writing to do that. You know what I’m saying? And generally, it’s rare. You know what I’m saying? How many devotees write for BDG?

Because that’s a few that actually know how to write.

So, you’d have to combine the ability to actually be able to write in an attractive way, and to actually know the philosophy. Because as we’re saying, Vedanta can always be applied. Problem is, because they don’t understand it, then they’re thinking you have to write something else. You know. You know, we’re not fanatic about the real nose. Now we’re into the nose in the mirror. But it’s the same nose.

You know what I’m saying? If you say there’s any validity in the modern, it’s simply because it’s reflecting what’s there in the spiritual world. You just have to know what the reflection is. You know what I’m saying? In other words, you have to know, what can you do with the nose in the mirror?

But, I mean, something. By looking in the mirror, what can you tell?

Yeah, what’s on the end of your nose, is that, you know, whether it’s on the right side of your head, or something like that. You know. It hasn’t wandered off again. You know, it ended up there.

You know what I’m saying? So, do the thing like that. But, the point is, could you take a, you know, take a, you know, a tissue, and blow your nose in the mirror? No. So, that’s the thing, is that they want to take the modern, and somehow or another, try to get some substance from it. On its own, because of its nature. Its good nature. But, the only thing that works in it, is its, what is reflected from the spiritual. So, if you know the spiritual, you know what to take from there. But, if you don’t know the spiritual, you have no idea what to take. And that’s why I’m saying they won’t be successful.

Right? Those who understand the philosophy, then they can make it successful. It’s not a problem preaching in all these, these areas. You know what I’m saying? This, but my point is this, why do you have to call it bridge preaching, soft preaching, this, that. No, it’s just preaching in that area. So, why is it that if you go to a yoga studio, that’s bridge preaching, or that’s soft preaching. But the guy, let’s say, goes to the prison, that’s not. Why isn’t that bridge preaching?

You know what I’m saying?

You know, why the yoga studios? You know that there’s probably more old ladies playing bridge than are at those yoga studios. You know, anybody worries about them? Have you ever heard anybody come up with a plan for preaching to them? Right? Never.

And it’s popular, right? You have newspapers, they have a column just on, you know, bridge, and they’ll show one hand at a time, you know, stuff like that. You know, so it’s like, you know, big. My father is a manager of a bridge club in Denmark. I might look into it. Yes, you should. You should see what they do. How to present Vedanta through the bridge. They have a logic mind, you know, so. Yeah. It should work. It should work, yeah. Try it. You could start something, you could take, because they play bridge everywhere.

Spread like wildfire. Yeah.

It seems that soft preaching brings more money to the aspect. Like a book distribution. Soft, but then it’s an economic consideration. But then why use preaching?

You know what I’m saying? Let’s say you take stickers and you go out on the street and you collect money. So, that act itself is that sankirtan.

Yes or no? No. When does it become sankirtan? If you offer it to the deities. Yeah, if it’s offered to the deities, it’s used for some, some, some Krishna conscious, you know, endeavor. Then it becomes sankirtan. Otherwise, it’s just selling stickers.

You know. It could be hats, okay, the stickers. Hmm? Paintings. Pagers. Paintings. Paintings. Okay, yeah, but that’s, that kind of works. But, how many paintings can you sell in, you know, Glastonbury?

Hmm?

Yeah, but I’m saying that then it’s, it’s, it’s economic.

Yeah, but what, why does he need economics? Why does he need it? For what purpose?

What’s money going to do for him? Right? There’s billionaires that are getting divorced, and their kids are all drug addicts, and, you know, they couldn’t care less about them. You know, there’s, there’s billionaires who, you know, their kids haven’t talked to them for years.

So what, what does the money do? What’s the money for?

Okay, so the point is, is if it doesn’t improve the consciousness, what’s, what’s the point?

You understand? So, that’s what Krishna consciousness is for, is to improve the consciousness. So whatever your situation, it’s not because, before it was prominently brahmacharis and sannyasis, that now it has to be prominently grihastas, at the expense of the brahmacharis and the sannyasis.

You know? Because that’s not human.

You understand?

Human society is understood by the protection of five groups of living entities. So, if the grihastas are put to the forefront, and the brahmacharis, sannyasis, because the sannyasis are your old men, and your brahmacharis are your, are the young. Right? And, my guarantee is that they, they claim that they’re being grihastas, but I’ll say they’re still not protecting women.

So they’re not actually grihastas.

You know, just as they’re saying, the sannyasis aren’t actually sannyasis. They’re not actually grihastas. Because grihastas protect women.

You know what I’m saying? So, in other words, is the purpose of getting their money, you know, the satisfaction of the women in their community, and to see that everybody is therefore engaged, by having that kind of facility.

Is that their purpose? You ever heard that come out in the conversation?

I haven’t. It’s all focused on the men, being in control, and this and that.

That’s, that’s, means, you know, why is that even a discussion?

You know what I’m saying?

That’s not the point.

You know, it’s just like, let’s say I invite you for lunch.

So, would you ask a question like, are you providing like plates and cups and stuff like that? You know, will there be a place to sit and eat? Is that my question? You know, what might I ask? Yeah, what time, or what’s for lunch, or, you know, depending upon the closeness or intimacy or stuff like that. But are you ever going to ask if there’s going to be a plate? No. So, therefore, men being in control, that’s like there’s a plate. But the important thing is the meal. It’s the interaction.

Does that make sense? So, even their talk of economics, what’s the use of their talk of economics? Because they still socially don’t improve the society. There’s all this talk about social improvement. I have not seen it.

Individuals, yes. But as a group, I don’t see it.

You know, previously you could go into any temple anywhere, talk to anyone, and trust that they were going to deal with what you said to them in a proper way.

Now, that’s not there. So, if there’s no trust, there is no community.

Let’s say, if we do this, then there’ll be community. No. If we have money, there’ll be community. No. If you have trust, there’ll be community.

No trust, no community.

So, that means that trust means faith, and that faith has to be connected to Christian.

Right? It has to be something sublime, not something mundane.

So, you can’t build something out of something mundane. It doesn’t work.

Does that make sense?

Okay.

So, then, that ends…

Oops. Yeah, that… Oops, that’s…

13 to 18.

Study guide 13 to 18. This one opens properly.

Yeah. Then, okay, chapter 13.

Okay, we have 13. Nature and… The Enjoyer and Consciousness. 14. The Three Modes of Material Nature. 15. The Yoga of the Supreme Person. 16. The Divine and Demoniac Natures. 17. The Division for Faith. 18. The Conclusion. The Perfection of Renunciation. Right? So… So, these are all the technical things. You know, what’s nature? The enjoyer, consciousness, the achiever, all these things. The three modes of nature. How they’re going to be… You know, how they work and function. Yoga of the Supreme. How the different… You know, the connection with the Lord and that. Divine, demoniac. Nature is what actually is divine, what actually is demoniac. Not just what we say is divine or demoniac. And divisions of faith, what actually then defines faith. You know, according to down-to-earth things. Food, sacrifice, a charity. Like this, all this, you know, very, very practical stuff. So, now, this is the technical stuff that you use. In other words, with the proper consciousness.

Right? The proper consciousness. Then you apply these technical things in your application of Bodhi Yoga. Right? And if it’s done… If consciousness is proper, then it’s pure devotional service. If it’s not, then at least it’s Bodhi Yoga, which is devotional service. Right? And it will get to that stage. And so, these are the technical points by which it could be practiced.

Chapter 13. Nature, the enjoyer and consciousness. So, this is the overall of the chapter, the Pratigya. One who understands the difference between the body, the soul and the Supersoul, beyond them… Oh, excuse me. Between the body and the soul, and the Supersoul, beyond them, attains liberation from this material world. You understand that actually, practically, then you’re liberated.

So, the divisions. Verse 1, Arjuna’s six questions. What is Prakrti? What is Purusha? What is the field? Who is the knower of the field? What is knowledge? And who is the object of knowledge?

So, these are all the elements that will be there defined, like we went through in the introduction. Right? So, now we’re getting into all this technical stuff. And so, now this is coming up. Like, how are you going to deal with this? Purusha, Prakrti, the field. Knower of the field. Like, who actually knows the field? What is knowledge? What actually is knowledge? That you can… Because knowledge is that medium through which you’re going to understand something. So, you have to actually know what is actual knowledge. Because otherwise, you can have a way of looking at something and it’s not actually knowledge. Right? People talk gossip. So, it appears to be an illuminating subject. So, one would call it knowledge or facts, but it actually is not necessarily.

Right? Because if it’s not properly connected to the Lord, then the perspective it gives is not actually that of knowledge. Right? Don’t want to go, well, I know. You know. No, it’s not actually like that. No, no, but I know. I know the real story. You heard it from the person who heard this.

Verses 2 to 7, Kṛṣṇa’s answer to questions 3, 4 and 5. Knowledge is the proper understanding of the field and the knower of the field. Right? So, Dukmina.

Verses 8 to 12, Kṛṣṇa’s first answer to question 5, the process of knowledge. Verses 13 to 19, Kṛṣṇa’s answer to question 6, the object of knowledge. Verses 20 to 27, And Krishna’s answer to questions one and two, Prakrti and Purusha.

And this is 28 to 35, Shastra-Cakshus.

So we see is that there’s a question that gives the essence of everything, what you’re trying to get to. Then there’s going to be an immediate definition. And then there’s going to be a greater definition or application. You’re always going to have these three levels in the Vedic presentation. The immediate thing, like these six points, whatever they are, either a question on these six points or someone’s defining that these six points are necessary or whatever. Then there’s going to be an understanding of them, or exactly a definition. Then there’s going to be where that definition is then applied.

So therefore, you get your big, yeah. So all these three levels are always necessary. They’re not repetition. It’s not, oh, we already discussed that. No, we didn’t discuss that. One is just the point itself. The other is the definition. So the definition isn’t described in the point. And when you give the application, that’s not described in the definition.

Srila Prabhupada writes on Shastra-Cakshus, in the first six chapters of Bhagavad Gita, the knower of the body, the living entities, and the position by which he can understand the Supreme Lord are described. In the middle six chapters of Bhagavad Gita, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the relationship between the individual soul and the Supersoul in regard to devotional service are described. Now, starting with the 13th chapter, how the living entity comes into contact with material nature, how he’s delivered by the Supreme Lord through the devotional service are explained. Oh, excuse me. Through the different methods of fruitive activities, cultivation of knowledge and discharge of devotional service are explained. Although the living entity is completely different from the material body, he somehow becomes related. This is also explained. So in other words, now you’re getting technically how you got into the material world. You understand that. You can understand how to reverse that and get out.

That’s the important thing.

And it’s just like, let’s say, you go head first into a very tight space and you get stuck. What’s your process? Reverse, get out. Now, what happens if you say you’re going to move forward and bridge?

Is that going to work? No, because you don’t belong there. So it’s going out backwards. So that’s the whole thing. The whole process is that creation and all these things are to show you how you got to the position you’re in. So you have to reverse that. Then you’ll get out.

So page 4, verse 1.

13.1. Here’s 1 and 2.

Arjuna said, oh, my dear Krishna, I wish to know about prakriti, nature, purusa, the enjoyer, and the field, and the knower of the field, and knowledge, and the object of knowledge.

So Krishna wants to know about these elements. So that’s basically what’s been established. Now, we see here nature is the enjoyer living into the field of activity, the knower of the field, knowledge, and the object of knowledge. So in here, you’re going to bring out. So all these things, you want to know these things. These are sambandha, jnan. But within there is that, OK, you have nature itself, the enjoyer, the field of activity, the knower, knowledge, and the object of knowledge. So object, you’re getting to the goal. The knowledge itself would be used to understand that, how you would apply the field. Who’s going to apply the field? So it’s all the different aspects. So important to understand is you can discuss the elements of prayojana, and it’s still sambandha.

Prayojana, specifically, that’s the goal. But you’re saying, OK, that’s the goal. From this field, you can get that goal. That means it’s the prayojana element that’s being referred to by the sambandha. But you’re not actually defining prayojana.

You understand? So that’s how sometimes you can also have devotees will talk about very advanced levels of things, and Krishna, and the residents of Vrndavana, and their internal pastimes, and all these things like that. But they’re still only discussing sambandha, jnan.

Because if you don’t understand the relationship and the rasa that’s being exchanged there, that’s the prayojana. Otherwise, they’re simply saying the facts of what’s the field of vraja, and who’s who, and who’s doing what, and what’s that, and what’s their purpose. So it’s still sambandha, jnan. But they themselves think they’re talking prayojana. And they’ll say that this is why we’re superior to how you say, Prabhupada’s teachings, which is only giving basic sambandha, jnan. You understand? But they’re doing the same thing.

So this is the problem.

Because if they actually could understand rasa on these higher levels, they would understand that that’s there in Prabhupada’s books. So if they’re saying it’s not in Prabhupada’s books, means they don’t know it. And if they say it’s there in the books, and they’re pointing it, then that means they know it. Does that make sense?

That famous one, Avibhikananda, or Ramakrishna, right? He who knows doesn’t say.

So he who knows rasa doesn’t say Prabhupada doesn’t know rasa.

Verses 2 to 7. Krishna answers the questions 3, 4, and 5. Knowledge means to understand the field and the knower of the field. So 2 through 7. The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, this body, O son of Kunti, is called the field. One who knows this body is called the knower of the field.

O Skainavarata, you should understand that I am also the knower in all bodies. And to understand this body and its knower is called knowledge. That is my opinion.

So here it’s not a matter of there could be so many other ways you could define it. So when Krishna ever says, this is my opinion, that means you can take that as that’s the last word. You don’t have to think that. In other words, sometimes he gives a whole list of things. And they’re all bona fide. The Shastra visions are there. But those visions are to be seen in light of what Krishna’s opinion is. But they’re written in that particular form because there are people who don’t want to see it according to Krishna’s opinion. So at least they’re seeing a particular aspect of absolute truth, but from their own particular perspective.

Does that make sense? So that’s why it’s written in that way. Like you say, tamasic Puranas actually aren’t tamasic. They’re written in a language. And giving examples in that, that will be attractive to someone in the mode of ignorance. But they’re not tamasic, you know what I’m saying? So in other words, those points are also describing pure devotional service. But they’re written in the language that someone who’s not interested wouldn’t see that. And they would only see the particular angle that’s there that’s of interest to them because of their conditioning.

Does that make sense? So when you say what Krishna says, this is my opinion, that means that’s the perspective through which you view any other perspective.

Right, that means, OK. Knowing the body, understanding this body and its knower, this is called knowledge. That’s his opinion, right? Anything else Krishna says is not knowledge. So if you discuss something, and it’s not in connection with how the body is working, the field of activities, and how the soul is related to that, it’s not actually knowledge. It’s illusion. So if that’s not part of the discussion, the discussion is. So now one would ask, so does that mean if the discussion was illusion, did that mean it didn’t take place?

Yes. So when it says, that’s my opinion, you could understand it as if you could disagree with that opinion. If you want to take on God, hey, go for it. That’s actually what I’m getting at. Because if it didn’t put this in, it would just be fact, right? Yeah, it would just be facts. So does my opinion indicate something personal? It’s personal because the relationship is actually what you’re trying to get to. In other words, seeing it this way, this is how Krishna sees it. So that means you’ll have some relationship with Krishna. You see it from any other way. You may say it’s valid. It may have its points. But will it generate that relationship with Krishna? Because that’s what we’ve seen has been the conclusion in the middle six chapters. That’s the point. So now we’re going to get into technical details. These technical details should be seen in light of what’s going to generate a relationship with that personality of Godhead. And if it doesn’t, what’s the use? That’s why when I guess some New Yorker, being clever, according to their nature, then somehow there came a discussion about how the guru knows everything. So he says, oh, so then if you know everything, then how many windows in the Empire State Building, right? And then Prabhupada looked at him and said, how many windows in a mirage?

So it’s not connected to Krishna. It’s just illusory. So how many windows in an illusion? What does it matter?

What does it matter what color the bedspread was in your dream? It doesn’t actually matter.

So real knowledge is understanding the body and its knower, which means the soul. That’s real knowledge. So that means anything you discuss, like before we were saying, Varnasrava, it’s not discussed, the connection of this. It’s not actual knowledge. That’s why it can’t be applied. Or you want to discuss the preaching. You have to see what is the field, what is the soul, and how that replies. Then you can say, that’s what’s actually going to bridge.

Vedanta is the only thing that can actually bridge everything. And everything else, then, you know, tends to be a bit temporary.

All right, that’s my opinion. Krishna puts it there. Could one take as a lead? He was trying to develop a relationship with Krishna. So wherever Krishna said, OK, that’s my lead. That’s my lead. I mean, you could.

It means you would. You’re following in the footsteps of the Lord’s direction. He is the Adi Guru. So you could take it like that. But it’s not just a lead, meaning that now you, it’s you’re the controller of it. No, he’s established what it is. We bring our thoughts in line with that.

Yeah, lead and following, yes. It means like in Parampara. Yes. It means these are the points that establish that the Parampara will do, will establish. Now, each Parampara has its particular aspect of Krishna to appreciate. Therefore, that will make the detail and difference in the Sampradaya. But these points where he says, this is my opinion, those are going to be common points. Everybody will agree on that. Is that OK?

It seems that the knowledge that Krishna imparted to Arjuna in the Sikkim chapter, that you are not his body, is in the Sikkim chapter, it’s more elaborated, more difficult to understand. Yes. No, that’s why it’s later. But the point is, you’re opening that this knowledge is there, but you want to get to the essence of the knowledge, which just means its connection to the Lord in a personal relationship based on devotion. Right? That’s the essence. Then you can get down to details. Otherwise, if you give so much detail in the second chapter, then one may miss the point.

So, in other words, the first six chapters and these last six are combined, and then after that, then you give the middle six chapters. The difficulty is you might be lost in the technique of it and you wouldn’t actually get to the devotional point.

Does that make sense? So, the point is this real knowledge. So, you’ve gone through the thing, got to Krishna, and then from that, then you’ll view down into the technical. Because that’s the point of pure devotional service, is you start with Krishna and move back. Right? While the other aspects of yoga is you start with yourself and connect that to Krishna. But here you already see yourself connected to Krishna, so you don’t have to do that. It’s just now how to apply that connection to Krishna in this situation. While the other is, I’m in this situation, I connect this to the Lord. You understand? So, the result ends up the same, but the flavor is different. So, that’s why one’s pure devotional service and one’s not.

Does that make sense? Okay, slow it down.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • Kṛṣṇa is not satisfied by good qualities on their own, because they are coming from Him. But He is very pleased by one who performs devotional service with these qualities.
  • What if one performs devotional service without these qualities? By performing sādhana-bhakti they will develop.
  • Qualities are obtained by His internal potency
  • “Kṛṣṇa-ized means… It doesn’t mean perfect in the way of it’s manifestation is to the completest form it can be, but it means it’s connected. The body is Kṛṣṇa-ized, but the body is still temporary. But if you can function always with a Kṛṣṇa-ized body, then that means you are comfortable with the fact of having the eternal body that it’s only interest is engaging in Kṛṣṇa’s service.”
  • The 26 qualities of devotees may or may not be manifest, so we should not commit aparādha if devotees don’t have them, but the one quality of surrender to Kṛṣṇa is always there.
  • Bhīma is not know for his humility, but it doesn’t mean he is not humble. The definition of qualities has to be Lord’s, not ours.
  • Nondevotees have no good qualities, because the soul actually does not have that quality, they are just temporary manifesting the reflection of that quality
  • While dealing with materialists who have good qualities, we should see the qualities connected to Kṛṣṇa, then we are not actually associating with materialists.
  • Vedānta works for everyone
  • Action is the central point. “The religion of eternal engagement”
  • 24:45 How important is the social structure.
  • Without understanding the technicalities of devotional service, one cannot understand Varṇāśrama.
  • Devotees who are expert in the mechanics of devotional service should be on the Varṇāśrama committee.
  • Sanātana-dharma means that it explains the nature of everything
  • 33:00 Summary of chapters 7-12
  • Once the field is set in the first 6 chapters, middle six chapters bring cit acit and īśvara into that field, emphasizing the importance of surrender
  • The time of leaving the body is crucial, because depending on what one takes shelter of at the time of death, one attains the next body.
  • 9th chapter Lord explains His supreme position in more detail, His relationship with His energies. The essence of this knowledge is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa and becoming His devotee. Just seeing Lord’s transcendental position is not enough, one has to act upon that by surrendering.
  • In chapter 10 Arjuna fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa and thus demonstrates the result of transcendental knowledge.
  • It was already described in the previous chapters in connection of how to attain liberation, but now things are seen in connection with the person Kṛṣṇa.
  • Even people without qualification can see Kṛṣṇa in His vibhūtis, but by association they can progress to understanding Him as a person.
  • Universal form means seeing all opulences in one place
  • Devotees see single things in the world in relation to Kṛṣṇa, and they are just uddīpana to remembering Kṛṣṇa
  • 58:00 Vedānta philosophy can be applied down to the smallest thing, nothing else can
  • Those who are trying to be nice are not capable of discussing how to properly apply the principle of war.
  • Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the rarest and most valuable thing given, but we take it for granted and go looking for something more difficult
  • The path of impersonalism is hard, but it’s meant for the less intelligent. The donkey’s life is hard, but they are not intelligent.
  • The path of impersonalism means not being able to engage bod, mind and words in the transcendental process.
  • Some people are upset about sannyāsīs having things, because they think renunciation stands on its own. Their point is valid, but it’s not engaged in Kṛṣṇa’s service.
  • In Hitopadeśa jackal quoting dharma to get nīti done.
  • Those enlightened by pious activities approach the Supreme Lord.
  • 68:30 “Bridge preaching”
  • Trying to say that material existence has substance and trying to connect it with spiritual by taking the position of the material.
  • Animal thinks reflection in the mirror is another animal.
  • There is nothing besides material and spiritual, but due to arrogance we try to create the 3rd category.
  • “We are a community of financially independent monasteries”
  • Why only yoga studio preaching is called bridge-preaching? Why not prison preaching? Why not preach to the old ladies playing bridge?
  • 85:30 STARTING CHAPTER 13
  • Ch 13-18 are technicalities to apply in devotional service with proper consciousness.
  • Vedic presentation always has 3 levels – giving essence, definition, greater definition or application.
  • There is no repetition, but there is different levels of explanation of the same thing, because in the essence, definition was not given, and in the definition, application was not given.
  • Knowledge about various aspects of Vraja is still sambandha-jñāna, but some devotees think it’s prayojana and think Prabhupāda only gave basics. If they actually could understand rasa, they could see it in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books.
  • Many times Kṛṣṇa gives a list of bonafide opinions from the śāstras, so that it would be appealing to people who are not completely purified, but at the end Kṛṣṇa gives His own opinion, and through that we should see all other things. By seeing it in that way, we have relationship with Him. Technical details are meant to help us developing relationship with Kṛṣṇa.
  • Details in illusion are not actually knowledge.
  • Each paramparā appreciates different aspects of Kṛṣṇa’s personality, but they all accept His opinion.
  • If too many details were given in the beginning, we might be distracted, therefore technicalities are given after describing pure devotion.

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