Reading from Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.12.31: [Mahārāja and devotees repeat] [chanting of the verse]
tejīyasām api hy etan
na suślokyaṁ jagad-guro
yad-vṛttam anutiṣṭhan vai
lokaḥ kṣemāya kalpateSynonyms
tejīyasām — of the most powerful; api — also; hi — certainly; etat — such an act; na — not suitable; su-ślokyam — good behavior; jagat-guro — O spiritual master of the universe; yat — whose; vṛttam — character; anutiṣṭhan — following; vai — certainly; lokaḥ — the world; kṣemāya — for prosperity; kalpate — becomes eligible.
Translation of 3.12.30:
O father, this performance in which you are endeavoring to complicate yourself was never attempted by any other Brahmā, nor by anyone else, nor by you in previous kalpas, nor will anyone dare to attempt it in the future. You are the supreme being in the universe, so how is it that you want to have sex with your daughter and cannot control your desire?
Purport
The post of Brahmā is the supermost post in the universe, and it appears that there are many Brahmās and many universes besides the one in which we are situated. One who fills this post must be ideal in behavior, for Brahmā sets the example for all living entities. Brahmā, the living entity who is the most pious and spiritually elevated, is entrusted with a post next to that of the Personality of Godhead.
Translation of 3.12.31
Even though you are the most powerful being, this act does not suit you because your character is followed for spiritual improvement by people in general.
Purport
It is said that a supremely powerful living entity can do anything and everything he likes and such acts do not affect him in any way. For example, the sun, the most powerful fiery planet in the universe, can evaporate water from anywhere and still remain as powerful. The sun evaporates water from filthy places and yet is not infected with the quality of the filth. Similarly, Brahmā remains unimpeachable in all conditions. But still, since he is the spiritual master of all living entities, his behavior and character should be so ideal that people will follow such sublime behavior and derive the highest spiritual benefit. Therefore, he should not have acted as he did.
His Holiness Bhaktividyā Pūrṇa Mahārāja: So, we have the principle then of setting example. So, setting example means you are setting something for others so that they can follow nicely. Because most don’t really think that much, so then discrimination is not a strong point. So, if the example is very clear, very straightforward, then it works very well for everyone – they see something, they do that. But if the example is not so good, then they may not be able to distinguish between what is proper and what is not, like we see that Marīci and the others are able to. They can see that Brahmā is fine, but this particular activity he is performing is not. So, that kind of intelligence then can work in this situation. It is not ideal, but it functions; day to day life, then this is the way things are, things happen.
But, as far as setting… In general, people in general don’t go into things so deeply. They don’t go. They just see what is done and take that, because the general tendency is towards sense gratification. So, anything that will approve of it is immediately accepted, and anything that doesn’t approve of it is a difficulty to accept. It may be a long time of trying to deal with it, to try to establish that fact within one’s practice. But one example otherwise, that it is okay, then immediately is taken. It’s very very… So, that is why it is so crucial that the sons are pointing out this fact, is that others are going to… One, it is inappropriate, and two, others are going… Maybe you are not going to be bothered by it, but others will be. So, that is always a consideration, is when you are dealing in the social structures: what is going to work for you, what is going to work for others? So, you have to find a balance there. In other words, you have your own values, you have to live according to that. Of course, your values should be valuable, but the values that you have, you have to be confident that you are living according to that. At the same time is that you have to fit that into a society, because you are working with others, you are living with others. So, it is not just how you think and what you want to do is the way that it has to be done. It means, you have to find some way to get what you need and what someone else needs – that is cooperation. So, I need this, so I will go about it, and this would be maybe the most direct way, but because others have this other need, therefore I will fulfill both. It may be a little longer, a little bit more elaborate, more complicated, but it will get done. Otherwise, why be a leader if the intelligence is not there to do such things? Does that make sense? In other words, pragmatism is fine, it is a bona fide concept, but the pragmatism should get more done than the one thing.
We see, one of the qualities of Kṛṣṇa is, in any action He does, many, many, many things are accomplished. That is one of His special qualities. So, that means, what are all those different things He accomplishes? It is just that He is a very complex person, so He likes to do many things at once? No, it is because He has so many relationships, and so therefore He is performing an activity that therefore does something for everybody in the relationship. The demon is approaching Him as an enemy, so He is reciprocating with that enemy, so then this enemy gets killed. At the same time, he is protecting the residents of Vṛndāvana. At the same time, He is showing His prowess to His cowherd boys and they are having great fun, you know, “Yes, we are so strong,” and how they like to profile and all that. At the same time, He is also glancing at the gopīs. So, it is all happening in one thing – that is intelligence, that is leadership. In that, you are accomplishing them all at one time, everything at one time. Not that pragmatism means “I see this, I do this.” Okay, that is all right if you are alone. It gets the job done. You have a nice observable result and that result is good, it is important. But at the same time, which is more important, that result or your relationships? Does that make sense? So, this is something very important here. It is a very fine balance. Because relationships that take you away from Kṛṣṇa are not very important. So, therefore, we generally see, we take that path of renunciation. It is Māyā, therefore relationships are seen that get in the way as something unimportant. But at the same time is, why do we have those relationships if they were not important for our conditioned nature? So, in giving up, they either have to be replaced with something higher – that is of course the easiest, most direct; or they have to be properly dovetailed. Dovetailed means that they are connected to Kṛṣṇa.
So, then that means is relationships that are important to you in your life must be regarded, but the proper balance between what is the higher relationships with lower and what will give a proper balance with everything, that should be seen, that should be accepted. In other words, intelligence. Our method is buddhi-yoga. Buddhi means intelligence. So, we have to use our intelligence to get what we want, not just bull in the china shop. The bull did get from one side of the shop to the other in the most straight line you could possibly get in a store, but in the process a lot of china was lost, like that. I mean, China is a very big place, but we should not lose any of it. Souls should be picked up from everywhere. But the point is that therefore we can consider this. The bull can go down the aisles, turn the corner without knocking anything over. So, that is the idea, is that just because you got it done, that is not enough. It should be that you got it done, but if a relationship also is broken in the process, what actually did you get done? Right? What is it? “This operation was successful, the patient died.” That one. So one has to be very, very careful in this.
So, we see is that then in this, then many things have to be considered here. Brahmā won’t be affected, others will be. And the sons are pointing it out as an example here. But what is very important for us, okay, so we see is that, now what to gain from here? Gaining from here, an aspect is that everybody makes a mistake. If Brahmā can make a mistake, anyone can make a mistake. And if Brahmā was not written off for his mistake, that means others should also not be written off for their mistakes. Does that make sense? You have to consider it, look at the whole thing, then you decide what is the position. It is very, very important. If you are seeing what someone does, the value that they do, and so that is their nature, someone is behaving in a certain way, let’s say someone is managing, and they are a good manager, they always manage, so they are a manager. They do that nicely. Now, if they make some mistake, and then everybody goes, “Well, that’s it, he is finished, he is out.” that’s okay, but how would all this nice work suddenly be eclipsed by one thing? Does that make sense? If your focus is on what they are doing good. Now, if one is a fault finder, of course all there is is fault, and now this is the big fault that just pushes it over the edge. You see the difference in the approach? Very different. So if when something goes wrong, if “That’s it, throw them out,” then that is a good chance all we have been finding is the fault, not actually what is useful, what is good. Otherwise if there is what is good, then it is like this: “You always do everything right, how is it this is happening?” So “There must be some purpose, but we don’t understand, so maybe it is not appropriate, so maybe you can explain it to us.” Does that make sense? That is the approach. Then depending upon what it is, what his determination is, then it is taken otherwise. If he said “No, it’s me and my daughter, you know, we are eloping and going off to the Bahamas,” then you might say, “Okay, this guy has got a problem, maybe we will put out, put it in the newspapers, ‘Need New Brahmā.’ You know, like that. ‘Qualities needed: Four heads…’ like that, ‘Sits on lotus,’ like that.” So, you know. But if it doesn’t happen, then he said “Okay, yes, that is a mistake,” then it is just taken from there.
Because intelligence means, something goes wrong, we are dealing with the mind. But if the intelligence can conquer over the mind, then that’s good, it is progressive. That the mind does these things, that is not the strange part. I will tell you one story like that. Unfortunately, the person that the story is about didn’t remember this later on, and then was distracted from the position.
There was one sannyāsī, he was riding in the train with Prabhupāda, they were going, you know, like this Calcutta to Delhi or Bombay, one of these, in fact, in those days. And so then, they are in the station and they are getting everything ready and that, you know, people are walking by, you can see. And then the train starts, it starts going faster and faster. Then, as the train goes faster, then it starts getting blurred, you can’t really see the people, right? Means the people out there, but you don’t focus on them, because it’s going, you just see inside the car. And as he is looking like that, in that direction, the window and seeing nothing, suddenly, just in a flash, he very clearly sees a young attractive girl, right? And then he asks Prabhupada, “How is that? You know, it’s like, everything is going by, the mind is not catching any of this, but then suddenly, it distinguishes, ‘Here is a girl, something to look at,’ and then focuses out the window for that moment and catches that glimpse.” So Prabhupada said, “It’s just habit.” For unlimited lifetimes, that is what we have been doing, right? It’s nice to look at, we look. So it’s just habit. So if after… If one doesn’t take it seriously, it moves on, what is the problem? If he pulls the red cord on the train and gets off the train and goes, looks for the girl, now we’ve got a problem, right? But if not, then… Does that make sense?
It is not condoning, but it is pointing out that it happens, and if one intelligently deals with it and moves on, this is proper. But this thing of, one thing happens, throw it all out, but then, is that using the intelligence? What is the difference? If by someone being affected in this way, then one emotionally responds, what is the difference between you and them? You are only functioning on emotion. You may be manifesting a more pious emotion, they are manifesting an impious emotion, but it is emotion nonetheless, it is not intelligence, because intelligence means discrimination. In other words, if it was there, okay, these, they are going, “This isn’t right, so therefore, why is this there?” Analyzing it. Then they go through it, they deal with Brahmā, they approach him nicely, and they say, “What is happening?” And when you approach like that, then the tendency is to also respond nicely, right? You use the proper intelligence and proper etiquette, you’ll get an intelligent and proper response. Then you can deal. They don’t take advantage, they don’t try to do anything, now that Brahmā has done this, they don’t try to replace, you know, one of the other brothers should now be Brahmā. They don’t do that, it is the etiquette. Does that make sense? But it is not sentiment, it is not the old boys’ club, it is just human dealings.
Because if you don’t deal like this, then you will be… How you say? You will be insecure yourself, because that means if you do anything wrong, according to your action, you should be removed. So, take this position strongly and confidently, if you are really sure you never have done anything wrong, or you ever will do anything wrong. Of course, you shouldn’t be doing something wrong now also, but… Does that make sense? Otherwise, what is your position? If this is your method, that means there is no one in the universe, including Lord Brahmā, who is safe, right? No one. In fact, even Kṛṣṇa is not safe, but it doesn’t bother Him, but, you know, you will throw Him out also. He does all kinds of funny things. Does that make sense?
So, it is a very important approach to dealing with problems that devotees have, because they come up, they come up from the mind. The mind is like that, it just accepts and rejects. It is not logical, it is not intelligence, it is the mind. So, the mind throws something up, if one gets affected by its sudden appearance, it happens. But, the point is then, either by the use of one’s own intelligence, or by the intelligence of those you associate with, then it is corrected, it’s brought back into perspective. Then, the mind’s position is seen in perspective of the whole picture, rather than just on its own. Then, you can deal, then you can actually have proper relationships with people. Otherwise, if you don’t use this, you will be insecure. And in fact, if you use this, think about it, are you secure now? Do you feel confident? Everything is going to go great for you that at any time, you might be the same thing applied to you? Very important. Very important. So, these things are there, so we get this.
Means, it is not the example of, “Okay, it is alright to run after your daughter.” No. The point is that, having done that, then how it was dealt with, and how he also responded, that is what should be done. So, in such a situation, that means then everybody, it goes into everybody’s life, right? If it was something else, you know, he came along and he put extra chili or something when he was eating it, “Oh, Brahmā, you are so rajasic!” He says, “Well, I am the mode of passion here, give me a break.” But, it is not that. It is something that everybody across the board could agree, this is bad, right? There won’t be anyone in the universe who will say this is good. So, he didn’t pick something where someone would go, “Oh, that’s not a big deal.” No, everybody will say it is bad. So, picking such an extreme example, then it is done, and then it is dealt with. Because, otherwise, it is not like, you know, two countries have a war, and then one wins, so now they try the other country for war crimes, while if the other one wins, they try this one for it – it’s very subjective here. This is something that is very universal. So, pick this as an example. No one can complain that it is not a bad example. And, therefore, then we see how everybody deals with this. Something so extreme, dealt with very, very nicely, like that.
Then, once he understands, then he is back in his position. Why would he be, he did this wrong? No, but his main situation is in a certain way. If your car always works, the one time it breaks down, you don’t throw it away. “Oh, it broke down, I can never trust it again.” No, you are in the material world, right? You know, you got… What is it? I forgot. Someone, a devotee was saying, his father would say, “One foot in the grave, and the other foot on a banana peel.” That is the material world, it is the way it is. Like that. Yes?
Prabhu (1): Prabhupāda uses the bad bargain, best use of bad bargain.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Best use of a bad bargain, yes. So, it’s just, it is already bad, but we deal with it, we work with it, we can do something with it, it is Kṛṣṇa’s bad. It’s the bad bargain arranged for us. So, we can use it in Kṛṣṇa’s service, but at the same time we have to be very, very careful to use, use it all to the best advantage, not just get something done today. If it solves the problem today, it creates ten more tomorrow – that is not so good. Some questions? Yes?
Prabhu (2): Mahārāja, this kind of analogy [Indistinct] primary point, this type of judgement, [Indistinct] one judgement…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, yeah.
Prabhu (2): How to avoid it? [Indistinct]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: How can we avoid it?
Prabhu (2): We see many times in situations… [Indistinct] how to avoid it?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Basically, is if one is, if one is able to… Well, I mean many things, it is a combination. But one of the things is looking at what are the good qualities that someone has, what service they have done, what are good qualities. That’s one of the principles of respect, is what kind of sacrifice, or what kind of service has someone done? So, someone who has done very big service, that service is respected. Prabhupāda would, someone who was criticizing another devotee, especially senior devotee, Prabhupāda says, “First do what they do, then you talk,” right? You know, they are a big manager, you are a big manager, then point out their fault. They are a big manager, you are just a nobody, what is your business telling, ‘Oh, he did this, he did that.’? It doesn’t have any, there’s no… How can you criticize unless you are at least equal, if not senior? Like that. So, that aspect of seeing the good, what is actually the motive? Not the… Because otherwise you can do, doomsday predictions are easy. I remember, our family, my father knew one person, he would check cars after accidents for the insurance company. And so, depending upon how he looked at it, he could either say, “It’s this much damaged,” or completely total the car. Depending upon how he looked, because you can go in and you look on, like the rubber around the windows, if it gets a little old, it gets cracked, so you have to replace that, you have to get this, a little chip out of the paint here and there, pretty soon you have to repaint the whole car, redo everything, change all the tires, change everything, all the… That’s like, you know, the car is useless, so you get a new car. Or you could just say, “There is a dent in the fender that will cost 200 bucks, that’s all the damage.” So, that is the point. It depends, if you want to look, there is fault everywhere.
Prabhu (2): [Indistinct]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, so, but finding what is good… But this is not sentimentally finding good. “Oh, no, they’re all nice,” no, but you have to be able to say what is nice. Okay, he is nice, okay, what is nice? Or if he is bad, what is bad? He has done this, what about all these good things? “Oh, well, that doesn’t matter.” But why doesn’t it matter? Since when is darkness better than light? When the darkness is prominent, that is then taken that the person is dark, right? A person is always stealing and lying and cheating, then you say he is a criminal. But if he always does things good and then one time he steals and cheats, you don’t say he is a criminal. He is a good person who somehow or another, for what reason we need to find out, by bad association or some strange situation, something happened. Not that they are not at fault, but the point is, is you can move on from that fault because you have a foundation of behaving good. You have the intelligence and practice to be good. Therefore, you are accepted like this. This common theory that, “Okay, he did this wrong, so they are not brāhmanas, they are not brahminical, they’re not this, not that,” that’s not, it’s not our philosophy. I don’t know where it is gotten from. I mean, I can speculate, but it is absolutely in no way, shape or form our philosophy. Otherwise, if that is true, why does Manu talk about the particular prāyaścitta, the rectification for a brāhmana who has murdered a brāhmana, which is the worst thing you can do. If that is the case, that is the worst sin in the universe. Why is it now by Manu, he doesn’t say, “Well, once he does that, he is not a brāhmana anymore.” No, he says “He does this for twelve years, and then he is back to normal.” And when he has finished his twelve years, the person who mentions, “Oh, aren’t you the one that you did this?” or “He did this before,” that person is sinful, not the brāhmana who did the sin.
So, that kind of consideration must be there. It doesn’t mean that you just are liberal and let everything go. No, you deal with it, but you make sure, here he understands, he moves forward, like that. You have to give that option. Otherwise, then all that is going to happen is you are going to create insecurity because you have no social structure, you have no support. Human life means you are confident, you are comfortable, you are supported. So, if there is no support from anywhere, it is not human life, it is animal life. Animals are afraid: eating, sleeping, mating, fearing. That’s animals, they are always afraid. So, if the human being is always afraid he is not in a human situation. So, it should be that there is that proper balance. Things that are wrong are wrong, but they are corrected and you move on. Not this all-or-nothing “Do one thing wrong, you’re flawed, throw it out.” Otherwise, then we would… No one would glorify the moon. So many faults. Is that okay? Anything else? Yes?
Prabhu (3): So, in the Vedic times there is the death penalty. Nowadays we say we don’t have qualified leaders, so such a severe punishment cannot be administered by unqualified leaders. And, of course, we know, it is not very palatable to speak about that topic which is not socially accepted nowadays. So, what is our position on that in Kali-yuga? We are trying to implement Vedic principles, but at the same time we understand that [Indistinct] may not be able to follow, and we are not able to follow Manu Saṁhitā. And second part is, we are very liberal to ourselves, forgiving ourselves, but very partial to others, saying, “No, you crossed this line, you double crossed me and you are in my… You are my black leg, you don’t exist any more. Now, Aśvatthāmā was doing very bad, I mean, most sinful, most treacherous activities, still kept on living, so how do we see that in our movement, like this personality has done very abominable things which in former times people would just get killed for, and nowadays we say, “Just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa,” and life goes on.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, it means you have to find the balance between… Better is that one is strict with oneself, one is liberal with others. That one will find it will work better because then that way everybody is liberal towards you and everyone is strict with themselves. That will work better. The element there is, see what you are dealing with is, is rectification is actually what it is. It is not, justice is there because persons are… How you say? Because of the lack of broad vision. Justice is there because of material anomalies, character anomalies. Otherwise, what is the need of justice? If no one does anything wrong, there is no need of justice. But the justice is there, someone did me wrong, so therefore I want retribution for that rather than I’m forgiving, right? So then because of that, then you have, that’s one aspect why you need punishment and why a lot of times punishments would be known, they would be publicly known, either seen or explained. Because then the others who are situated in this platform of justice will feel satisfied and they will remain just because if they think everybody else is unjust, I can be unjust also. So it keeps them just, it is just because I will get in trouble, not so much that it is their value.
So the real purpose is, as we know from the Vedic culture, is to make us Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if we do something wrong, it is from ignorance. So whatever way we will correct the ignorance, that is actually what the Vedas is giving. So the more elevated the consciousness, then it is more a state of contemplation, that one takes up strict sādhana and contemplates and keeps the proper, situates oneself properly spiritually and away from too much material distraction. But as it goes down, the consciousness drops, then it has to get down to, since you think you are the body, then the punishment has to happen on the body. So, therefore, corporal punishment, capital punishment, only because people identify that way. If they don’t identify that way, there is no need for it. So then the actual, the real thing is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but see that chanting is going on. Not punishment means you can’t chant anymore, the service that will purify you, you can’t do anymore – that’s not rectification. That is a misunderstanding. That is social prestige. So, social prestige isn’t, you can’t take that as a complete form of rectification. If you do, who is it really important for social prestige? I mean, really, if you look at it, who in society, their day is made or not by their social prestige? You think about it. It’s women, right? Or those attached to women. So if the whole consideration of purification is based on prestige, then what society, what group, what group is that from? Who are you pleasing? You are not pleasing the intelligent class of people. You are not actually pleasing those who know how to actually protect people. You are actually pleasing those who are in, have the connection of the mode of ignorance, which means the vaiśyas, śūdras, women, friends of the twice-born, that group. They are the ones who will be pleased by that, because for them prestige means so much. But the brāhmanas can be in public, live in the forest. Kṣatriyas also, they can be in public because it is good for service, if not you go to the forest. They never have any problem with that. But loss of prestige and that, as far as personal, that is very important for the lower thing. Kṣatriyas and brāhmanas, it is only important for their service, it’s not important to them personally. Because they said it, therefore people have confidence, therefore when I say I will get this done, people have confidence, the kingdom stays peaceful. Or because I say it, “This is truth, it is according to śāstra,” therefore people are peaceful, they accept it. That is the reason. But as far as personally, they don’t worry about it. Manu also says this: that person who is disdained by everyone, he actually sleeps peacefully at night. He has nothing, so there is nothing to lose, right? So he sleeps very peacefully. The person who is finding fault in him, he is the one that is tossing and turning all night, like that.
So the actual punishment is, it actually has to fit what it is and purify one from that. So if one does dream up a process of rectification and after having gone through it, that the persons who have given you this rectification don’t feel you’re purified, whose fault is that? It is the person who decided what is your purification. It means they don’t know what is purity, they don’t know what is rectification, they don’t know what the process is for. It is just being used politically. Then what is the meaning? Prabhupāda didn’t use like that. And the excuse, “Well we are not Prabhupāda.” Well, Prabhupada chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, so why don’t you stop chanting? Why is this pick and choose? No, Prabhupāda said, “Do as I do.” So Prabhupāda, he would take somebody, they’d do something wrong, if they wanted to continue doing things properly, they would continue doing the same service because that service is what engages them, body, mind and words in Kṛṣṇa’s service – that is perfection. Body, mind, words in Kṛṣṇa’s service. Prestige isn’t a consideration.
Why is someone… Someone is not a temple president because of prestige. Someone else might think it is a prestigious position, but that’s not… You do it because you are a manager. So, therefore, to take them out of management, if they have shown good, they have done something wrong. But then if they can understand and continue as a manager, what else, how are you going to engage them? What intelligent idea do you have for engaging them body, mind and words in Kṛṣṇa’s service? It is not there and they don’t care. So therefore, how is it devotional? It is against this teaching of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam. It has nothing to do with our philosophy. It has nothing to do with our culture. It has nothing to do with the process. It is just simply a mental speculative made-up thing that sounds good. When they say it and they turn around to the others in the room, they see some nodding heads and then they think, “Great, job done. Now I can go and take care of the next problem.” Does that make sense? Is that okay? So the point is, is when you are dealing with the society of devotees, those harsher punishments aren’t really necessary, but rectification is. So you have to see that they are in the situation, they are in the service, they got distracted, how to keep them from getting distracted in the service? That is what you are looking for. Is that okay? Yeah? Okay. We should end here. We’ll continue after five minutes with questions if anybody has.
Grantha-rāja Śrīmad Bhāgavatam kī jaya! Śrīla Prabhupāda kī jaya! Samavetā bhakta vṛnda kī jaya! Jaya Nitāi-Gaura premānande Hari Hari bol!
[end of lecture]
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