So devotional service then covers everything. It takes care of everything. If devotional service is being performed, then, as I said, nothing else needs to be performed.
The difficulty is for us to understand what that means. We understand, okay, chanting, that’s obvious. Anything direct, that’s obvious. Difficulty comes is that then we’ll think, oh, so I deal with nothing. So this would mean, basically speaking, I live a temple lifestyle, because then I’m doing nothing in the way of jñāna, karma, vairagya, all these different things. But at the same time, the śāstra’s been saying it’s to perform one’s duties. So the point being made is that whatever one’s doing, if one’s in connection with Kṛṣṇa and one’s trying to please Kṛṣṇa, then there’s no extra endeavor. And if it’s done where it’s not connected to Kṛṣṇa, then whatever it is, because this basically covers everything, jñāna, karma, yoga and vairagya, right, it doesn’t leave a whole lot, then that means it’ll be prāyaśa, right? It will be over endeavor.
Right? So the point is, is these are the things that distract us. So all our knowledge, we’re interested in knowledge. Knowledge is all in connection to Kṛṣṇa. We’re interested in work and results. The work and results is in connection to Kṛṣṇa. We’re into yoga and that, that’s all in connection with Kṛṣṇa, right? Vairagya means we’re giving up the material concept, accepting the spiritual, then everything’s connected to Kṛṣṇa.
Situation doesn’t change. It’s what is the purpose of the endeavor, right? So that being there means it’s devotional service. If it’s not connected, it’s not devotional service. Then it has to be one of these categories. And anything in these categories is over endeavor. It’s not like, oh, there’s a certain amount of material endeavor that’s okay, and beyond that is not okay. No, material endeavor is over endeavor. And spiritual, that’s not over endeavor, because that’s the natural, that’s the norm.
The prāyaśa for attaining pratiṣṭha, or fame, is the lowest of all kinds of prāyaśa. Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī has stated in the Hari -bhakti-vilāsa, even if one can give up all material desire, the desire for fame is very difficult to give up. This desire for fame, which is compared to stool, is the root cause of all inārtas. Therefore, one should carefully avoid touching the stool -like desire for fame, right? So we’re taking this desire for fame, and then it’s a matter of, you know, equal opportunity, everybody can do whatever it is. That way, you know, because it’s prestigious to do all, you understand what we’re dealing with here? We’re dealing with that which creates all the other kinds of over-endeavors, right? Because for pratiṣṭha, then you have to have, you have to have some quality, right? You’re not going to get famous for nothing, right? Right? Unless you’re, what is that guy?
I can’t remember. Maybe if you’re Albert E. Newman or something, maybe you can become famous for nothing.
But he does nothing.
That’s it, you know. So the point is, it’s by knowledge you become famous. It’s by the results of your endeavors that you become famous, right? It’s by your, by rājñā you become famous. Does that make sense? So if the need for fame, you have to get it somewhere. So that means you have to engage in the others.
The instruction is extreme, this instruction is extremely serious. The devotee should follow this exclusive duty with special care, right? Yes. One thing that was also shared with me, like the, there is a temptation that if I become famous, then my preaching would increase. But why should it increase? Yes. That, that is, there is, no, those who are, those whose preaching is increasing, they’re the ones that are becoming famous. It’s not that the fame is making it.
You, you understand?
It’s, it’s just like what you say, you know, how you say.
The person makes the endeavor, that endeavor becomes successful, right? Then they become famous. But it’s not because of that fame, now they’ll be more successful.
No, the two don’t have anything to do, connection with each other. You know what I’m saying? People may know you, but if that’s the point, if you’re, if you’re working from the point is nobody’s heard of you, so therefore no one will take you seriously. But if they’ve heard of you, they’ll take you seriously, right? If you want to take that, that point. But the point is, is then, then for that to actually be, because it’s not this, because it doesn’t matter if it’s good or bad. That’s the difference. Prabhupada, it didn’t matter if it was good or bad publicity. It’s publicity. People know who we are. And once, once you know who we are, then they’ll inquire and then you can explain.
You know what I’m saying? But if it’s only good, is, is good, then that’s pratishtha.
Does that make sense? Because we’re presenting pure Krsna consciousness. Some people will appreciate that, some won’t. So you can’t go by, we can only have good, good, how you say, responses from people, because the point is, is that if you have the concept that there’s, how you say, devotional and non-devotional mentality or inclination towards piety and inclination not towards piety, then that means you’re always going to have these two classes. So to expect that everybody will like you, then, then it’s not real. In, in logic it’s called jolpa. Right? We have prajolpa. So jolpa is, is that position where you say stuff that is, sounds good to everybody.
Right? So you’re not actually saying anything. You’re just placating all the different sides and therefore it seems to be, so that’s called jolpa. Right? When that gets more extreme and it’s really, doesn’t even do that, right, then it’s called prajolpa, like really jolpa. Does that make sense? So this idea of, you know, this one says this, that, let’s compromise, you say something in the middle, this and that, that’s called jolpa. You understand? You’re going to get those who support, you’re going to get those who don’t. The point is, is as long as those who are the sadhus, they support and the ones that are materialists don’t, then you’re fine. But if the materialists support and the sadhus don’t, you have problem.
Does that make sense? Yes. Isn’t the downside of name and fame the desire for adoration?
Well, it’s just that everything else comes up, because the discussion, the section he’s giving is on prayasana, endeavor. So it means if you endeavor for fame, then you’re going to have to endeavor for the other ones to get it. So in other words, you’re going to increase. That is a quality one may have. So that may not be very useful, but it’s a different discussion. Does that make sense?
The discussion here is on endeavor, because that means, endeavor means you’re going to spend time and intelligence doing something. So that means, prayasana means you’re wasting your time and intelligence.
So if you’re looking for fame, then that means then you’ll spend more, means if you’re only looking for money, you’re going to put in the time for money, and it doesn’t have any extraneous elements. But if you go for fame, then you have to endeavor for fame and endeavor for money, or fame and renunciation, or fame and, you know, does that make sense? So that’s why it will cause the others.
Because adoration basically comes from karma.
It means fame and adoration are the same thing. Because you have distinction, adoration, and profit. So that’s what you’re dealing with. So distinction is special, like this, you know, your knowledge, or like that. Adoration, that will be what people will appreciate you for that. Profit will be what you’ll gain from having that. So they’re natural things, but they also are connected to dhanam, janam, sundarim. Right? Dhanam is your profit. Janam is your, how are you saying? No, no, that’s sundarim. Yeah, distinction, like that. So that would be used in that category. Does that make sense? We’re taking this specific detail here is that because Rupa Goswami and Upadesa Marita’s define utsahan, or enthusiasm, is endeavor with intelligence. So that’s very necessary.
That to get any progress in performing your vaidhi, then you have to be enthusiastic. So that means you have to put in the endeavor, use your intelligence. When that becomes more mature, then it will turn into rag, but it’s still endeavoring with intelligence. Does that make sense? So this is showing that where you can waste that endeavor.
Yes. If it’s not for devotion for Krishna, then that’s the waste. Means even if it’s very nice, the difficulty of when we pick out a quality that we’ll take as bad, the quality is any quality not connected to Krishna is useless, and any quality connected to Krishna is useful. Because the point is, let’s say the person is very nice, he gives in charity, he cares for people, but he thinks it’s his money and he’s the one helping the people. So even though it’s seemingly he has good qualities, technically he doesn’t, because it’s only the modes of nature that are taking care of the modes of nature by his previous karma to put him in a situation where he works for these nice works. So it’s only temporary that he’ll manifest those qualities. After some time, once he becomes big and famous or some other element, something else changes, his business fails, his family runs off, then you may not see the manifestation of those qualities because different modes will work. So even the good, so that’s why the quality itself is Krishna. It has to be seen though in connection with him. So the point is here is that, again, anything connected to Krishna is useful. Anything not is useless. So this is about endeavor, that the endeavor shouldn’t be useless. So how to see that your endeavoring in those areas isn’t fruitless.
This process of worship without prayasa, again, has two different kinds of applications, for householders and for renunciates. Making varnasa unfavorable to devotion or service, the householder should pass his life engaged in devotional service free from prayasa. They should earn and save only to easily maintain the family members. They always remember that worshiping Hari is the only purpose of life. They will never fall into illusion. And the renunciate should not save at all, should maintain his body by daily begging, alms, and thus engage in devotional service. They should not stay in any enterprise. By entering into enterprise, he is at fault. The more he worships the Lord with humility and simplicity, the more he will understand Krishna by his mercy.
So it’s whatever is the occupational duties, that’s what you situate yourself. So it doesn’t matter. But the principle is that you see it in connection with the Lord and are dependent on the Lord, like we were discussing in the morning with the surrender. We identify ourselves as servant of the Lord. We see ourselves in relationship to the Lord. We’re always, you know, Krishnas are maintainers, Krishnas are protectors. So that’s the same whether it’s a grhastha or not. The difference is the renunciate doesn’t endeavor for any of those facilities as such, while the grhastha will. But they’re only just, you know, what is necessary to maintain. And also that what’s necessary to just maintain, that’s also according to your particular social status. So someone from a very wealthy culture background, their just maintaining may be more expensive than someone who’s from a simpler background. Does that make sense? You know, so it just depends upon what is your standard like that. Yes? I had problems in the past trying to level out that standard. Yeah, you can. But the difficulty is, is in the bourgeois environment, how the bourgeois came up is that they didn’t have so much money. And then through the, if there is any stability in a state, then they’ll get money, right? And then when they get money, then they will naturally, because of this pratishta, they will live in the same lifestyle and activities and facilities as the nobility, right?
Or the, yeah. And so the intellectual class and the nobility class, that’s where your authority is, right? And so they have to work under that. Now, once they have, but the point is, is because money is their medium, is their goal, you know, is their identity, right? It’s their sambandha, abhidheya, prajna. So then once they get to that position, they’re not saying, well, why don’t I live like the Brahmins? No, no. Now it’s because they have that money, they’re moving in the same social environment. Then they want to do the same things.
You know what I’m saying? It means whenever there is, the empire is developing or expanding or protecting itself, you don’t have these problems because it’s very obvious what the leadership is doing, right? They’re going out, they’re fighting in battles and all those things like that. You’re running a business. So you can obviously tell the difference. When it’s peacetime, you know, which it should be, then they make money, they rise up, but then because there is no social distinction in that the nobility works on dharma while the viceroy class works on artha. So they can’t tell the difference. The point is, is one has money and power, and I have money and now therefore power, so we’re the same. So they can’t tell those cultural differences. You know what I’m saying?
So that being the basis, then the difficulty comes up is that when we level, we will level from the bourgeois perspective, which means that everybody has to have the same amount of money. Not that everybody’s equal and they have the same facility according to their service or nature. That would be too sophisticated.
You understand? Because then everybody will live differently.
You know, there’s a Brahmin, he wants to live really simple. He’ll have nothing. Another Brahmin needs a little bit more. He’ll have something more. You know, the administrator may have more than that. The businessman, he makes it great, but if you’re a viceroy that doesn’t make money and you just are a gopher, you know, gopher?
Yeah, go for this, go for that. It’s also, yeah, go for it. It’s also gopher is the kind of animal that digs holes in the ground and stuff. But a gopher means that you do all these things, so they’re very responsible and very short-term, obvious results like that. The vicers are very good for that. But specifically, you choose vicers that aren’t making money. You understand? They’re vicers by mentality that they don’t have the karma to make money, to engage them. So everyone’s going to have a different kind of need. But the problem is, is because the living entity is attached, he wants always more. So if anybody for some reason has more, by whatever reason, then that’s not equal. So equal means that it’s got to be exactly equal. But that would be like, you know, how you say, how you say, you’re going to eat five chapatis and Bhima Sen is going to eat five chapatis.
Or you have to eat 50, one or the other. It’s got to be equal. So it becomes an issue. It becomes a philosophy rather than just a way of life. You know what I’m saying? Because if you really wanted to do that right and bring it to its perfection, then everybody would sit down. Everyone would have exactly the same bowl. You come along and put, you know, your one or two spoons or whatever it is that you’re putting in the bowl. And then prasad service finished. You eat that. When that’s done, you go wash your bowl and you put it away.
But there are monasteries that do that. Right. They’re called Buddhists. Right. So. So there is such things. But then you’d have to go there. But they’re not saying that. No, it has to be. I get whatever I want. You know. And as long as someone doesn’t have something I want that I don’t have, then that’s OK. I can have a little more. Everyone can have as long as they get. If anybody has something, then it won’t work. So that’s the difficulty. It’s there’s no discrimination because that’s intelligence.
Does that make sense? So then then then then everything gets lost. Does that make sense? So. So you have to be very, very careful. Is that therefore the renunciate. He’ll have he’ll have his way of doing things. And he has to have theirs.
You know, I’m saying. So it may be that the renunciate has more facility. Maybe there is. It has less. Maybe one has more. Another one has less. You know, one has more. Another has less. It doesn’t. It doesn’t matter. The python Sadhu was laying on the side of the road. He was fat. I’m sure there are greenhouses that are thin. He’s getting more than they’re getting.
You know what I’m saying?
Feeling thin.
You ever worried about thin. Just say if you’re ever worried that you’re too thin. Just look up pictures of Auschwitz. Then you’ll know you’re not too thin. You’re doing fine.
So. So.
Does that make sense? So that’s not our philosophy. The philosophy is that here, he says, says, says this is the point. They should earn and save only to easily maintain the family members. Right. In other words, they don’t make an endeavor that’s beyond what it takes to their Sadhana and take care of the family. And then their proper allotted time of work. Because to get more money than that, they have to work more. Where’s the time going to come out of? It’s going to come out of Sadhana or family time. Right. It’s not going to come out of somewhere else. Right. They’re not going to take it out of their sleep. General are the guys that would take it out of their sleep and work. Generally, we don’t see them like that. So. So the point is, is therefore just what easily maintains the family means it’s comfortable. Because the point is, is what’s easily maintains for one person. That may be some hundreds of thousands of dollars. Someone else. I mean, tens of thousands of dollars. He makes that money easily. And that’s that’s what he lives at. You know, I’m saying it doesn’t matter what it is, because otherwise you’ll have to say, no, no, no. No, it doesn’t matter. Right. And the renunciate should not save it all.
That’s that’s the point. So then the one is saving for his family and the other is not saving personally. Right. But they’re both engaged in their devotional service.
So that’s how you define. So then, however, that works out. You don’t worry about it. Right. That’s why the Vedic culture actually takes purity to be able to take part of it. Because if there’s too much greed and other things, you can’t actually take part of it. Like Duryodhana is a disruption to the system because his greed is greater than what it should be. His qualification is not as great as his greed.
You know what I’m saying? I mean, he’s not happy to be in the family of the emperors of the world. So it’s maybe he’s not directly the emperor, but his cousin is. You know, he’s going to be doing fine. He’s going to have big tracts of land. He’s going to be very prestigious. No, but he has to have it all. And not only that, it’s not that he can be the emperor and then the cousin is, you know, then just the junior. No, he has to have everyone. And the cousin has to not exist.
Right. So that’s the problem. So it’s a disruption. So he’s not actually pure enough to function properly in the Vedic system. Right. So we’ll put it on expertise and money and those kind of things. That’s the qualification for social structure or hierarchy or control or authority. But it’s not. It’s purity. Purity and knowledge. Detachment.
Does that make sense? So then one will over endeavor someplace. You should.
There’s no place for lamentation. Yes.
And prayers and lamentation are connected. Yes. The more you endeavor on the material platform, the more you’ll suffer. It’s it’s it’s direct.
Yeah, you could put E equals E equals M.
Look, she’s P equals M.
So you’re the the.
The the your your endeavor is going to be how much you suffer because your suffering is going to be balanced with your gain, you gain more, you suffer more, you gain less, you suffer less. But the point is, is for the person who gains less and suffers less, that suffering is still very great. You know, I’m saying.
So that’s the point is, is then that you gain more, but then your suffering is more.
It’s just like I say.
Someone is used to more facilities to have any less than that in facilities is a great suffering. Someone who’s used to a small amount of facilities, then he’d be comfortable. He’d be really luxurious in what the other guy was saying is no facilities. But whatever is his facilities, he’s used to if it’s a little less than that, then you’ll have a problem. You know, I’m saying. So the point is, is it’s an illusion to think if I get more facilities, I’ll be happy. It just means more facilities means more facility to be unhappy.
You know, I’m saying you have one house, you have one mortgage, you have two houses, you have two mortgages like that. So you increase your pleasure, you increase your problems.
Does that make sense? They’re balanced. There may be there’s a time when it’s going one way, but and because the nature of the soul, we saw before those illusions, they’re like the vikruta brahma, you will think the material world is eternal. So therefore, now this happy situation will go eternally. Right. And then when it swings the other way, then this unhappy, that will be eternal.
Right. Does that make sense? So that’s the problem. But if one looks at it naturally, you know how much it goes, one is how much it will go to the other. So if you’re not endeavoring for the mundane, you won’t suffer.
Yes, Arjuna is lamenting because he has so much. Right. Very great, very powerful in that. Therefore, he suffers so much.
Does that make sense? It’s connected to Krishna. Then we see at the end of Gita, same situation. He’s not suffering because now it’s before it was prayasa. Now it’s not. Now it’s devotional service. Situation didn’t change. Right. The external. Yes.
I mean, one was very general and then it suddenly turned very specific.
The point is vanaprastha means you’re not trying to expand, you’re not trying to develop.
You’re just maintaining, you know, so whatever works and maintains, that’s all that one’s doing. You know, so if that has a job, this and that, then it goes. But it’s he’s not trying to. So in other words, where he could where where when he was younger, he’d be working on things and and getting more opportunities or moving up. Now he won’t. He doesn’t do that. In other words, how much time he puts in. That’s all he puts. If there’s any way to put less than and he’ll do it. So all the time left over before on, you know, having lunches with people and making arrangements and talking on the phone and emailing and all these things to make his situation better all that time, he doesn’t have to do that. Now, all that time he can use for Sadhana.
That’s the point. So it’s a mentality, not so much the change in the situation.
But it would be if it’s in the household, then it’s he’s not technically taking care of the children. They’re taking care of themselves. So if he’s in the house with the children, that would be the norm. But he may have a saying and he does whatever he’s doing.
You understand all these are mentalities.
That’s why I say Brihasta. Right. It’s an ashram. He’s a householder. So he he has his house. He engages that in the Lord’s service.
Yes.
Yes. Basically, he’s you don’t you don’t make it uncomfortable, but you’re not trying to make things comfortable. I probably defines comfortable means it’s not uncomfortable. That’s why I was saying is for four different individuals that may be very different. You know, I’m saying so somebody he has many cars, but, you know, he doesn’t bother with the, you know, the Hummer and the Ferrari anymore. Right. Therefore, you get the the the monk who sold his garage. Yes.
He’s he’s he’s he’s he’s he’s he’s.
That the point is, is if she is the position of welfare is he is for two two classes of persons. One is the unfortunate that they can’t somehow to maintain themselves in your way. They lack the skills or the ability or something like that. And the other would be the person who’s engaged in full time service. So they don’t have time for a separate occupation. But in either case, both of those can be engaged in full time service. So if one is on welfare, the doll, one should be doing full time service. But if one is on government money and not doing anything, then that’s actually cheating. Because the point is, is someone you have to you have to make an endeavor. You have you have to you have to pull your own weight. Otherwise, why should the rest of the society take care? What’s what what are you offering? You know, you have to be doing something or you’re a basket case. And so what can you do? We had a godbrother who was who was considered.
Yeah, clinical that he couldn’t do just so they pay him money. They call it crazy. He was considered nuts. The funny thing is, he used to take the money and when he get it, he had a fireplace. You know, it wouldn’t be any fire there. They just throw it in the fireplace because he didn’t really need the money. After a long time, there’s a ton of money there. And then I think he became a devotee and then he figured out, well, now we can use it for Christmas. He went and collected all the money in the fireplace. You know, it’s a lot of money there.
The funny is just the story came up. The person I’m talking about is from Hawaii.
Originally from New York.
He was a it means means you have all the stock markets in the world, you know, and all that. And then, you know, and now that then there’s Wall Street. You know, and then then you have the have the people that work on it. But then there’s the guys on the floor, you know, the guys in the suits on the floor. They’re the ones that really know. And then the guys up in the top or another thing, another run up. But they’re the ones that actually make this stock market work. Very, very clever, very sharp, very aggressive like that. So this devotee I’m talking about, he used to be one of those. So one day this kind of hit him. What am I doing? So I just walked out and ended up in Hawaii and lived in a cave. So I think going from that to Hawaii and the government considered he was crazy.
Nobody goes to just don’t do that.
OK, but the more he worships the Lord with humility and simplicity, the more he will understand Krishna by his mercy. If one takes shelter of the holy names of humility, then by the mercy of the Lord, without prayasha, all knowledge of the absolute truth that should be known, awakens within the heart of the simple devotee. This knowledge is never attained by independent prayasha. So that means you can study all you want. You still won’t know what you’ll know, that if you’re humble and please the Lord in that way, then you’ll know more. Because the point is, if you know Krishna, then you know everything. So that’s the point. It’s like we see Gorki Sharda’s Babaji Maharaj. It means any scholar could go to him and discuss and get answers. But he was known for not being able to read. Whether he could read or not, that’s another thing. But he was known for not really being illiterate.
Srila Prabhupada describes prayasha as follows. Collecting and eating more than necessary also causes prayasha, or unnecessary endeavor. By God’s arrangement, anyone in any part of the world can live very peacefully if he has some land and a milk cow. There’s no need for man to move from one place to another to earn a livelihood. One can produce food grains locally and get milk from cows. That can solve all economic problems. Fortunately, man has been given higher intelligence for the cultivation of Krsna consciousness or the understanding of God, one’s relationship with Him, and the ultimate goal of life. Right here. So understanding of God, relationship with God, and the ultimate goal of life. So the abhidheya, the sambandha, and the prayasha. So Prabhupada always mentions this.
Unfortunately, so-called civilized man not caring for God’s realization utilizes his intelligence to get more than necessary and simply eat to satisfy the tongue. By God’s arrangement, there is sufficient scope for the production of milk and grains for human beings all over the world. But instead of using this higher intelligence to cultivate God consciousness, so-called intelligent men misuse their intelligence to produce many unnecessary and unwanted things. Thus factories, slaughterhouses, brothels and liquor shops are opened. If people are advised not to collect too many goods, eat too much or work unnecessarily to possess artificial amenities, they think they are being advised to return to a primitive way of life. Even though we require economic development, true religion allows it only for supplying the bare necessities of material existence. jivasya tattva-jijnasa The real purpose of life is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. If our endeavor, prayasha, is not to inquire about the Absolute Truth, we will simply increase our endeavor to satisfy our artificial needs. Spiritual aspirants should avoid mundane endeavor.
In other words, the simple lifestyle affords whatever one requires because the balanced time is used for Krsna consciousness. One’s inspired in that. But because modern man is not inspired in these things, then so many other things are required.
And so then that requires so much facility and all that. And then that expands. Unnecessary factories, all these other things come up, and then it just creates a hellish environment. So a few people get more, and then a whole bunch of people are told they can get more if they work really hard and get the money. But the ones who are actually getting the more are the people who are engaged in them. And one may complain and say, we’ll make it all equal. No, it’ll always be like that. Because the point is, one who’s clever, he’ll always come out on top. That’s the way it is. It’s not going to be anything else. So unless there’s qualities that will come from devotional service, then there can be the proper thing of everybody being taken care of properly, because then there’s not excess.
If the passion is slowed down, the ignorance is removed, then the simple lifestyle is very satisfying. Because the point is, why have money and facility? It’s for family and friends. But if you don’t have time for family and friends, because he’s so busy getting money.
You know what I’m saying? Now it’s socially considered okay, if the person is single, that they absorb themselves in occupation, and that’s all they do. Become very expert at it. Make lots of money. They have a great, fabulous facility. You know, like that. But, you know, there’s no family.
So that’s because they’re unable to function in the family. They don’t know how to use it. So it’s an escape.
Otherwise, the normal thing is to share.
It seems to me that Atiyahara is just a part of prayasam.
It’s the principle is that you’re making endeavor to collect more than you need. Right? It means to overeat. It takes work. It’s not just a… It’s not… Overeating is not for the lazy fellow. You know, because it’s hard work.
You know what I’m saying? Then you have to digest, you know, find a place to sleep, not get disturbed while you sleep, avoid having to do your work so you can’t sleep. I mean, there’s a lot going on here. You have to manage the food. You have to manage the food. You have to manage that it’s on your plate and not on someone else’s plate.
Yeah. A lot of work.
See, because Atiyahara, they’re breaking it down. It’s a similar kind of thing, but it’s different because the one is, the eating and that, you don’t necessarily… It’s there, you’re eating. Right? Food’s there. It’s not so much of an over-endeavor to reach over and get a little more of something or ask for something or that. But it’s… Of course, it is, but anything’s an over -endeavor. Technically speaking, breathing, if you’re not a devotee, is over-endeavor. Right? That’s why it says that the breathing of the non-devotees is like the bellows. You know? Like that. They breathe very heartily. You know? Like that. No asthma, nothing. They’re doing quite good. But it doesn’t have… There’s no life. You know? So… But the other one is you’re endeavoring in knowledge, in working that, and that’s a constant thing. You know? So you’re constantly having to work and think about that. It means if the person sits around all day, thinks about food, and how to get food, and how to eat food, and how to collect food, that would be prayasha.
Right? Does that make sense? But you get something. You know, somebody gives you something. And then slowly, slowly, after a while, you have a lot of things that people have given you. You know what I’m saying? So now, is that… Do you need that? Do you require it? You keep it. If it’s more than what you require, you give it away. But you haven’t endeavored for it. You know what I’m saying? So the point is, is that the eating and the over-collecting may come from not even endeavor. You know what I’m saying? You go out begging, or somebody gives you food, but they give you more than you can eat. So do you eat it, or do you give it away? You know what I’m saying? So, though they are connected, they’re all in the same category, but at the same time, they have their specifics where they’re being applied. Is that okay? When we moved to India, we had a realization that before we thought we were choosing insurance and paying for the car installments, we were choosing things for ourselves. When we got here, we got rid of that. The realization was just feeding these gigantic dinosaurs, these big companies, and we were the guys feeding them. And now we don’t need it anymore. It’s gone. It’s gone. So that’s the meaning of independent. We don’t understand independent. Independent means, we generally think, it’s whatever I feel like, I can do it without anybody getting in the way. But independent means you’re not dependent upon others.
Does that make sense? So then you’re not part of the scene.
Yes.
Suffering coming within devotional service, basically it means that one’s impurities are being addressed. Because if something’s for, if one has great attachment or great affection, then the endeavors is not seen as a suffering.
You know what I’m saying? So it’s just like, the mother is happy changing the diapers on the baby. But then, if suddenly you end up with the baby and she’s off talking to her friends about the spa, then it’s a suffering.
Depending on the color, it can be different grades. Hmm? Depending on the color, which is inside, it can be a different grade of stuff. Yeah, yeah.
There’s all kinds of detail. I think you’re speaking from experience here. Okay.
Yeah, yeah. No, that’s just, the point is that, that’s what I’m saying. Attachment, affection, these things, then the obstacle isn’t an obstacle. It only becomes an obstacle as you reduce those things. So all it is, is that if one was doing that for oneself, one might not see it as an obstacle or suffering. But since one’s not doing it for yourself, and we haven’t developed that love for Krishna, then we’re able to notice the obstacles that are there and the difficulties that come up. Does that make sense?
Yeah? Yeah, so that’s all. So it’s just a matter, it makes us aware of that there’s something there that in ourselves is not necessarily right. It doesn’t mean there won’t be difficulties like that. It means that we won’t suffer from those difficulties.
That’s the difference. We take it that there’s no suffering means there’s no difficulties. So if there’s any difficulties, then there’s a problem because the suffering comes from the difficulty. So we’ll take it Krishna consciousness means no suffering, so no difficulties. So if any difficulties come up in Krishna consciousness, there’s something wrong with the Krishna consciousness. No, it’s actually just, all it is, is there’s something wrong with us. We’re still, the impurities are still there, so that they’re the same.
Does that make sense?
So a spiritual aspirant should avoid mundane endeavor. Right? If it’s spiritual endeavor, it’s not a problem. Mundane, that’s what you want to do. Because mundane means it’s not connected to Krishna.
Right?
Three. Samre Bhaktivinoda Gosvami’s Essay on Prajalpa, Idle Talk.
Talking with one another is called Jalpana or Prajalpa.
Nowadays in this world, godlessness is so prominent that conversing with others means godless talk. Remember, this is circa 1850.
Right?
Like that.
Hmm? No, it’s nothing. That’s the thing where you think there’s nothing. The other day I was talking with somebody, you know, it was a bit of history buff and stuff like that. The concept of apartment buildings comes from the Romans.
You know, like that. And he specifically was looking at, what’s his name? Caesar. So when Caesar was a kid, I think, I forget what it was, it’s Caesar’s mother’s father was some big guy. You know, a big general or somebody very prominent.
And something happened to the father. I don’t know what happened. Maybe he died or something like that. And so then, but his mother’s, his grandfather gave to his mother a seven-story apartment building in Rome. You know, so it wasn’t uncommon. The only difference then is that the person who owned the place lived on the ground floor. You know, instead of on the top floor because they didn’t have elevators. So it’s like, you know, the other guys live, you know, so it gets cheaper as you go up rather than as you go down. So that was the only difference. So then, so apartment buildings, those were standard then.
You know, so many things, stock market, all these other things that we take now as a modern. So no, those were, no, those were then. You know, because we went from houses, you know, and then it gets tighter then apartment buildings come up. But the point was is, you know, you know, Italy’s, you know, the size of, you know, you know, it’s not necessarily a big place in comparison, you know, like that. So then, then as, as people get more compacted, naturally then apartment buildings come up. So all that meant was the Rome, Rome was very packed.
That’s all. So if there’s more people want to live in a smaller place, you make apartment buildings. And if there’s less people live in a bigger place, then they make houses.
You know, but we think it’s a modern phenomenon. It’s always been there.
No, no, there’s plenty to drive through.
Yeah, I mean, you still have remnants of all kinds of things. That’s the thing. When you drive through Rome, it’s full of them.
Still standing.
Yeah, no, there’s a lot of stuff. But, point was just that there’s nothing new. We think there’s something new, but there’s nothing new. Like that. But if we think there’s absolutely nothing new, it’s all old, and we lose our enthusiasm.
So, like that. So, that’s where we put the most, we put emphasis on the devotional cultivation. The other one, we make it clear so that one doesn’t try to do both at once.
They’re all auspicious for the devotees.
So, it appears that talking with one another is called jalpan or prajalpa. So, jalpan seems to be what’s useful, and prajalpa means what is not useful.
Or, jalpan is what gets by. It’s useful. Like using your lawnmower or something.
Sometimes, puffed-up devotees argue that all kinds of prajalpa should be given up, this is not supported by the Mahajans, such as Srila Vyasadeva, Sukadeva Gosvami, Prahlada Maharaja, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and His associates, who are always engaged in talks connected to Krsna. Therefore, the favorable prajalpa should be accepted as instructed by the authorities.
Because it’s just prajalpa is, pra means just it’s more you know, it’s more emphasized more intensely. Prahlada means happiness or pleasure. So, prahlada means, you know, greater happiness.
The thing is, it’s like endeavor. Prayasa, remember? It would be used, prayasa means you’re endeavoring in Krsna consciousness, but if it’s not in Krsna consciousness, it’s useless. So, the prajalpa connected to Krsna is fine, the prajalpa not connected to Krsna is not. So, that’s the difficulty, is that we have a tendency to think that or take it that something devotional has no connection at all in form, in endeavor, in mechanics, anything with something, you know, material and spiritual are two different things. But the point is, is that living life is supposed to be the natural, how you say, existence of the living entity in his pursuance of service of the Lord. Right? But if he gives up serving the Lord, it’s not that that concept of life, his lifestyle changes. Let me say, like in Vrndavana. So, I mean, as far as the pastime goes, then everybody is all renunciates, right?
No? No. They’re all grihastas. Right? Family, they’re vaisyas, they have their occupation, they’re paying tax, they’re selling things. Gopis, when they’re walking on the road with the yogurt on their heads, where are they going?
Hmm? To sell it. They’re going to the market.
Right? And then Krsna comes and steals it. Right? It means, they’re going to the market so there’s an opportunity so Krsna can steal it. But the point is, is they’re going to the market so that wherever he steals it, they can get angry. Because if they were just carrying it just so that he would come and steal it, their anger couldn’t be so good. Right? It wouldn’t be as convincing. Right? So, the less it takes. So, the point is, it’s all going on. Are there parents? Right? And the parents consist of a husband in a masculine form and a wife in a feminine form.
Yes? Children are younger than the parents.
Right? Right? Like Nanda Baba has a beard. The younger kids don’t have beards. Right? The men have beards. The women don’t. Right? Yes? Does that make sense? Cows eat grass. Cows give milk. Trees give fruit. Sun shines. Moon shines. Stars shine. Birds fly. Fish swim.
Right? So, isn’t it? Now, what if all that’s not connected to Krsna? Then it’s the material world. So, the point, the point is, is we have this idea that the lifestyle of the Vaisnava is something different than would be the materialist. In the spiritual world, it’s something else. That’s why it gets confusing.
So, the point is, it comes back again. Discussions amongst devotees connected to Krsna are useful. Discussions not connected to Krsna aren’t useful. Right? Endeavor connected to Krsna is useful. Endeavor not connected to Krsna is not useful. Right? Does that make sense?
Eating connected to Krsna is useful. Eating not connected to Krsna or at least volumes not necessarily connected to Krsna is not useful. Means the prasad is connected.
Is that, is that make sense?
Mayavada philosophy. Because Mayavada is that if, if material has form, you know, type, you know, form, senses, emotions, relationships, activities, results, pleasure, pain, then spiritual, because it’s not material, can’t have any of these. Therefore, there’s just nothingness. So, that’s where we come up. His question before on, you know, we just try to make everything equal. These are all coming from that. We can’t understand individuals, they do different things. They have no problem. You understand? Madhavamangal is a brahmana. They, they, you know, so he doesn’t need to have the facilities and all that the Krishna has, and he’s not worried about it. He’s a brahmana. What do you need it for? You know what I’m saying? But Krishna has this, and then that’s nice. Does that make sense? So, this ability to be able to appreciate that, you know, in other words, what is useful and what’s not.
Does that make sense? Otherwise, we just follow the rule. Okay. This, therefore, is not useful. But then the problem is this. You never know.
Godless vrajalpas are impediments to devotional service.
There was commentary. There was commentary.
It says, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in his book, Prema Pradip. Oh, oh, this on the next page is from that. Okay.
Okay. From Prema Pradip. And this is on favorable vrajalpa.
Babaji, we have heard that maha-bhagavatas remain intoxicated, relishing the sweet topics of Lord Hari. They don’t engage in discussions on karma or jnana. Why, then, does our most worshipable pandita, thus Babaji, spends his times on such topics? Hari, thus Babaji, said. Babaji, such a doubt also arose in my atheistic mind. But when I heard those discussions in, in Pandita, thus Babaji’s holy association, I came to know that all the devotees’ discussions on karma and jnana are nothing but Hari-katha. That’s a very nice way of doing it, instead of saying, instead of saying that, instead of saying, yes, this point you’re making is atheistic. It says, yes, like that. At one time, I also thought in this atheistic way. You know. I got distracted by this atheistic way. I think, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, in one thing, they were talking about in the preaching, it’ll be very difficult and all that, because they were engaging people in a certain way. And he said, yes, thousands of lifetimes ago, I used to think like that.
Even that, he said at the office, he says, no, for thousands of lifetimes, I’ve been doing it this way. You know.
Like that.
That’s the one I’ve always heard, but when I read it the other day, it seemed to be the other one. Like that. So I was a little, I was, but it means the same thing. It means thousands of lifetimes ago, he switched from one to the other.
Such discussions are nothing like the topics discussed by the materialists, which simply agitate the mind. Rather, by hearing such discussions in the association of the devotees, the living entities are freed from the bondage of karma and jnana. So there’s discussions, technical discussions on how karma and jnana work, and how to purify them in the proper performance of one’s duties. Right? To see what is the impurity, what is the useful. Right? To be able to make that distinction. Like that. So, yeah, so those discussions are useful. But just to discuss karma, jnana, without its connection to the devotional application, then that basically is useless.
So what he’s saying here is that they’re only discussing the sweet topics of pre-meeting, pastimes, qualities, and like, so nice, but at the same time, is the element of retraction is also important. Because otherwise, then one may be listening now, but then later one will do something not so. Good.
Okay, so we did it. So, godless pajalpas are impediments to devotional service. They are of many types. Useless talks, arguments, gossip, debates, fault-finding, and others, speaking falsehoods, blaspheming devotees, and worldly talk are all called pajalpa.
It’s quite a good list. Debates. Debates, yes.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in his commentaries on Sri Manasiksa, Like prostitutes, mundane subjects plunder a man’s knowledge and his resolve. A prostitute cunningly relieves her customers of their riches, and mundane talks rob a man of his wealth of knowledge. After all, one’s predilection for spiritual upliftment is his only treasure, and such a treasure is everything to the sincere transcendentalist. Grossly materialistic subject matters and dealings with topics unrelated to the Absolute Truth plunder this treasure because they are unreal, illusory, and temporary.
Dabbling in scriptural injunctions that deal only with temporary and mundane goals, such as greed for wealth, close association with women, or keeping the company of people overly attached to women are considered gross materialistic activities. Any desire for association with such activities is town to mount to mundane talk.
So here, even we’re talking about the scriptural injunctions that deal with, you know, the over -emphasis on, on, on, on, what do you call it, artha, yeah, artha kama, yeah, basically artha kama.
Okay, useless talks, that was useless, those points, you know, in other words, using things that, for a material purpose. Arguments, gossip, debates, fault-finding, speaking falses, blaspheming devotees, and worldly talk. Right, interesting. Arguments and then debates, right? And then, then fault-finding and blaspheming devotees. This is like, each one’s going a little bit more deep. Useless talk is extremely detrimental. Sadhaka should discuss topics related to Krsna without wasting time. For the practicing devotee to read newspapers or novels is a great loss. But if there are topics about pure devotees described in the newspaper or in the novel, then reading is not an impediment, rather it is beneficial.
Right? Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura had newspapers, magazines, and novels. Right? So then devotees had something they could read.
Argument is a prajapa that is adverse to devotional service. All the arguments of the followers of Jnaya and Vaisesika are simply godless quarrels. They do not yield any result other than wasting the mind’s strength and increasing one’s restlessness. In the Vedas, Kata Upanisad 129, it is said, quote, this intelligence cannot be obtained by argument, end quote. On the other hand, if such deliberations are based on the Vedas, that is no longer prajapa. That is why in the Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya 12, 182, by Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, who said, in the association of the jackals known as logicians, I simply continue to bark a resounding, bew, bew. Now from the same mouth I am chanting the holy names Krsna and Hari.
Because for them it’s the logicness of it. It makes sense. That’s all. And so whoever feels that they have a better understanding, a presentation of logic, how it logically should be, then they’ll consider that more important. Right? Because that’s all you’re trying to establish. It’s not a matter, you’re not trying to come to conclusion. You’re not trying to understand what it’s for. So therefore, I was discussing the same thing based on the sastra. Right? So in this case, since he mentioned jnaya and vaisesita, they’re based on the Vedas. So this would mean based on, you know, the sadanta of sastra. Then you have something else. Right? Then that’ll be devotion.
That is why in Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 25, 153, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given the instruction, quote, study Srimad-Bhagavatam very scrutinizingly. End quote. It is certainly one’s duty to give up logician’s association.
We just read this.
But we missed that paragraph. I went from this intelligence to Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya.
Okay.
You, you. That’s regular jackals. Here they chant go, go away. Like that. They have their own dialect, but okay. Useless arguments arise from envy or pride, aversion or attachment to sense gratification, or foolishness or self-pride.
Quarrelsome people also become intoxicated by useless arguments. While discussing topics of the Lord and His devotees, the practicing devotee should always be careful to avoid useless arguments. Right? Because when the argument goes, right, when it’s at a certain level, then you look at it in a certain way. Right? But when it gets going too much, then, you know, the broad generalizations, the, you know, I don’t care for anybody, this is the way it is, bring anyone you want, it’s going to be like, you know, you understand? Means one is intoxicated. One’s become intoxicated by the argument. Because intoxication means you’re not actually aware of things and that’s so much. So then that starts to happen. Right? So therefore, one can become intoxicated by arguments.
Jai Nithaya, sir.
Jai Nithaya, Jai Nithaya.
As long as it’s not Shakistali, then we’re, then we might have something. But if it’s Shakistali, forget it.
Shakinaga.
OK, thank you.
I’m going to come with Kumbhakarna, who is also an architect, so let’s see. I wonder who they are. Because people generally only notice certain things. Generally nobody comes to a building and then says something about the architecture unless they know something about architecture.
Talking without reason about other people is extremely adverse to devotional service. So that’s gossip. OK? Useless talks, arguments, now gossip is talking without reason about other people is extremely adverse to devotional service. You don’t have any, it’s just, oh, did you hear, you know, this one’s off with that one and that one did this to that one and that one did, you know, like that. It’s like you don’t have any connection. It doesn’t have any meaning in your life. You know, it’s not that you’re responsible. It’s not something that you’re trying to learn from it. It’s just something to talk about. Right? Something new.
Otherwise, weather is getting boring.
The minds of those who are busy in such topics can never be fixed on the lotus feet of Krsna. Talking about others should be rejected in all respects.
But in the practice of devotional service there are many favorable topics that are faultless. Even though they are about others. Only the devotee renunciates can give up talks about others completely. But because the householder is engaged in earning, saving, protecting and maintaining the family, he cannot completely give up talking about others. When all one’s material activities are related with Krsna, then even his unavoidable talk with others becomes sinless and part of devotional service in relation to Krsna.
In other words, he’s got to talk about something. Right? Because he has a family and his kids are going to come and say, you know, at the school and this one said this and that one said that and you have to say something to make them feel okay and like that. So it’s basically pajalpa. But because you’re responsible to take care of the kid and protect, therefore your protection of the child, therefore in that protected environment they’ll be able to take up Krsna conscious, you have to put up with that. You know, it’s just the way it goes. It’s part of the scene. Right? Now if you can connect all those things nicely to Krsna, then you reduce that. But there is stuff that it’s not necessary.
You know what I’m saying? You know, does that make sense? The family member is not, you know, upset about something or like this and that. Then that, you’re just sitting around and talking about, you know, this one this and that one that. That’s useless.
Does that make sense? But there is the, basically, talk about others, but it’s connected with what you’re doing and so, therefore, it has to be continued with.
Hmm.
The Merchant of Venice. Because, what do you, what do you, what do we learn from the Merchant of Venice? What’s the, what’s the point?
No, I mean, there’s maybe no point in discussing it because they don’t really come to a Krishna conscious point, but the point is this. What is the weakness in the Merchant of Venice? What’s his, I mean, is he wrong? He is an usher. He has given a loan and that loan means you have to have a contract when you’re going to get it back. Right? And whatever is that contract, that is the binding thing. So he said, you know, he wants his money by this time or a pound of flesh. The other person agreed to it. Technically, is he wrong? Not at all. He’s 100% right. But the point is, is that he’s missing the point is that one’s doing business to make money so that one can interact socially and all. I mean, so it means he makes his money by that. The other guy that he loaned it to makes his money by, by, by buying and selling goods but through bringing them by ship. So he has to, means he’s buying it from someplace far off and transporting it and all that. So his ship sank or something. I don’t remember. It didn’t show up. Something happened. So that would mean then, then, you know, so that’s what one person does and the other person does this. That’s why banking is not recommended.
You know what I’m saying? Because then you’ll have to deal more roughly with people than, than the, the guy who’s selling merchandise has to deal very nicely with you, right? Customer’s always right. You’re always sweet. But a banker to be successful can never deal nicely with you. You’ll take advantage. So that’s why it’s not the recommended. Trade is more, is more recommended than banking. You understand? So now, but so he’s seeing this and missing the point of making the money. He’s taking the occupation as the ultimate thing rather than the principles of, of qualities that come from, from the development of the ashram. Right? And from what is understood, he seems to be a practicing Orthodox Jew. So, then the problem is, is he, he, he overdoes this that even his own community feels that he’s, you know, gone over the line. And the others considered, you know, are saying that, well, you know, they being externalists are saying, you know, if this is what it means to be Jewish, you know, better you become Christian. Then you’ll have that nice, you know, all things like that. Then, you know, instead of taking the pound of flesh, you’ll burn it at the stake or, you know, something else more humane. Right? You know, like that. So, that would be the, the, the point is, is that it’s like the smarter who follows the rule and misses the point that the rule is for a purpose. That’s, that’s the element that is there.
You understand? So, so all these things, they have their point. So if, if you can use it, it’s just very well done and things like that. But at the same time as we do have others, but it works really nicely in the Western environment.
Yeah, because one is, except for Rabindra Sroop who’s read Shakespeare. Right? You know, so then, then, it’s kind of like, shake who? Shake who? You know, like that. You know, so, so it’s like, you know, yeah. But the point is, is he’s getting across the thing. He’s showing how practical is there, you know. Does that make sense? You know, it’s like the, the whole thing of how you, how the husband deals with the wife. He’ll say the wife is not submissive. But it’s not her, it’s how you deal with her. Right? Therefore the story of taming of the shrew. You know what I’m saying? That’s, that’s, so, very well done, you know, things like that. Means they’re poetic and all this and that, you know. But at the same time is, it doesn’t get to the point of Krishna consciousness. So you have to do that because otherwise just, you know, on its own is, is just as mundane as anything else. You know. Does that make sense? Right, so the point of the story He could, but the point is, in other words, there it’s not a pound of flesh. In other words, make the thing that, you know, means legally that, you know, the local, whoever’s the local authority would be breathing down his neck to, you know, like that. That would be the thing. But the man has pounded flesh because it is a contract. He can take it technically. No one’s saying he can’t take it. But no one’s wanting him to take it.
Right? And at the same time we also learn that from Niti, if you’re, if you’re clever and you have a strategy, you’ll always overcome somebody who’s functioning on emotion.
Does that make sense? Because the lawyer who came, right, because that’s, that’s direct Niti. The lawyer who came then, then argued on, on, on logic and had a plan. Well, he just had the emotion that he was, he was going to be involved and the others were going to get.
Does that make sense? And the other, then the final point, you know, you get from that is that don’t take the, take, don’t take the women of your value lightly. In other words, the women you value don’t take them lightly, lightly. You know what I’m saying? Because if you do, then you get in trouble. So the girl came dressed as the boy who was the lawyer, got him out of the problem, but then later when he goes, oh, thank you and all that, she’s not going to talk to him because he’s not dealing properly. You know, so there’s so many things but the difficulty is, is they only observe things and put them together as interesting things. They don’t actually know the science behind it. Devotees do.
Does that make sense? So the point is, is connected to Krishna becomes useful, but we can get those same stories in the Vedic literatures. We don’t have to go there, but the point is, all these things because the person is just very clever and has observed the material energy and puts it together. His expression is through drama. Someone else does it through some other thing. So that’s all it is. How well you observe and how well you can document what you’ve observed so others can understand it, that makes it valuable knowledge. But the point is, what they’ve observed, they don’t understand the source of what they’re seeing. That’s why it’s called avidya. So it’s not that the study of the knowledge itself is the problem. It’s that you’re not seeing what is the source of that knowledge, what makes the knowledge work. It would be like taking a four-year course, studying a blender and never, at any time, discussing electricity or running it. You know what I’m saying? Now, for the common person who all there is is that thing, you put the thing in there and, you know, you put stuff in there and you take a stick and you kind of like go around like this and then it slowly, slowly kind of cuts everything off. You know, like that. If you do that for a while and possibly, we found that also if you smoosh a bit and then go around that it works even better. Right? You know? And then somebody’s developed another thing where he puts, you know, this three blades like that. So he’s made a three-tong thing that comes up and has like a, you know, what do you call that? Those gears on it. And he has this thing and he turns it like this and then that makes the thing go around and he’s improved the efficiency, you know, how you say, you know, 73 .2 percent. You know? Like that. So all this is going on but someone who knows what a real blender, how it works will say all this knowledge is useless. So that’s what Prabhupada is talking about. And we’ll say, no, no, no, but you can use it like this. You can. But the point is is unless it’s connected to Krishna, because our attachment is to the knowledge itself and to the material benefits it gets, not to, that it’s another way you can serve Krishna.
You understand? There’s a difference there. So that, that’s the difficulty.
Does that make sense? OK.
This thing, the next verse is one of those good ones.
Om Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Jaya Srila Prabhupada ki Samaveda bhakti-vrindiki Jaya Nityai Gauri Premalambi Jaya Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Jaya Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
