Bhagavad-gītā Thematic #5

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Hare Kṛṣṇa Sādhanāva Sādhanāva Sādhuriyantara He daśīnam adītam astu ma viduḥ śrāvaṅki śrānti The word karsati, struggling or grappling hard, is very significant. The conditioned soul is bound up as though shackled by iron chains. He is bound up by the false ego, and the mind is the chief agent which is driving him in this material existence. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body. And in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face.

What was that? What’s the lesson? Lesson two. Lesson two. What’s the lesson? Part and parcel of Godhead. Part and parcel. Part and parcel. Okay.

So, here this struggling, because he’s bound by the modes of nature. So that’s what fixes him within the material situation. And so that is then the chief agent he’s saying, here’s the mind. So the mind, because it’s accepting and it is rejecting, right? So it’s accepting those things that feels as good, it’s rejecting those things it doesn’t like. This is the difficulty, right? So the problem is, is that because it’s not connected to the Lord, then it’s not going to be of any, how you say, improvement to himself. It may be, you know, something refined, it may be something, some other element like that, but it doesn’t actually improve, right? Improvement comes when there’s a connection to the Lord, right? Because then you’re dealing with transcendence, you’re situated in the transcendental position, because he says here, so when the mind accepts Krishna consciousness, things go very easily. When the mind doesn’t, it’s a problem. So when we say doubts and misgivings, we’re talking about the mind, right? That’s the whole point, yes. Especially, means doubt may just means it doesn’t logically make sense, but the point is you can’t accept it, right, until it does. But a misgiving, even if it makes sense, you still won’t accept it, right? So still it goes back to the mind, though, because doubts aren’t so difficult, misgivings are, but generally you can say doubt and mean misgivings also.

Misgiving means you don’t like the way it is, you know, it’s like you have to surrender but you don’t really like the idea, why do we have to surrender? Why can’t we just do what we want and then add Krishna, you know, that kind of thing. That’s a misgiving. Yes. When one is questioning to clarify doubt, then is it that you’re looking to remove the doubt completely or are you just trying to make, alleviate the doubt?

It depends. No, one doubt, removing one doubt will always establish another, that’s how all these are written. Like we see is that when you’re dealing with the Adhikaranas, is that the Adhikaranas establishes the point, so by the point being established, a doubt comes up concerning the point, right, so then that’s removed. Once that’s removed and you’ve made the conclusion and established it, you know, this element, then the difficulty is that creates a new doubt, because now you’ve added more facts to the field and so now with that, then it creates another, so then there’s a whole chain of establishing points and then removing the doubt that comes up from that, right, until you get to the, you know, the final, the end of the whole group of Adhikaranas, right, because the Adhikaranas are completely thought in itself, but there’s a group of them, so that will generally be a chapter, right, you know. Does that make sense? You know, or a Pada, like in the Vedanta Sutra. So you have four parts, you know, like this is Bhagavad Gita study, guys, but you have three parts, but the second one has two parts, Vedanta Sutra is the same, so, but in that each one of them is divided into four, right, so then, and then in each one of those Padas, those sixteen Padas, you have so many Adhikaranas. So the Adhikaranas, so within one Pada, those Adhikaranas, it goes through that natural progression and then conclude there, and then it goes into the next Pada, where it’s another group of Adhikaranas, right, so, yes. So, can we say that the doubt deals only with intelligence and discrimination? We can say the doubt deals with intelligence and discrimination, but the intelligence only shows what, it only analyzes, meaning from the point of what’s the similarities and what’s the differences. That’s all it does. Now, whether you consider those similarities or differences of value or not, that’s the mind, right? The mind, the intelligence doesn’t go, this is your best option, you should take this. It’s only, it’s making, it can make that statement based on the point that the mind has already given the criteria on which you’re going to analyze, you know what I’m saying? But it’s ultimately the mind that decides, the intelligence doesn’t decide. It only shows you what are the two, like say, you want to get to, you know, you’re late, you want to get there fast, so then you go out into your, you know, into the front of your house, you know, with the, you know, the whole big area there. And then you see there, you see your Ferrari, you know, you see your Hummer, you’re like that. Yeah, your cycle, you know, your Rolls Royce, you know, like that. And then you see your Bentley, so then you think, okay, I want to get there fast, I take the Ferrari, but then we’re going to a place that’s a little more formal, so, but the Bentley is also just as powerful, so it can get there as fast, but more class, so I’ll take the Bentley. But it’s the mind that’s already made the thing, the mind is that fast, so it, intelligence analyzes fast, so it’ll say, these are the fastest, but the mind will say, okay, now the element is that, is there’s the element of the prestige also, so that means that’s going to go with this one, does that make sense? So it’s the mind that makes the decision, but, you know, any argument that’s there is over that the mind is not wanting to accept the logical point, but still it’s made the criteria by, on which the intelligence is functioning anyway. That’s why if you accept Krishna Consciousness, the mind’s accepted, then the intelligence can say, this is the better thing to do. But if you haven’t accepted Krishna Consciousness, then that’s not going to be an option of analyzation, you’re not going to do that. Yes? So is this basically the thing that in Krishna Consciousness the intelligence is in control, and if not, the mind is in control? Yes. It means ultimately the mind makes the decision, but we say the intelligence is in control, means, means what is the intelligent principle, we’ve accepted that intelligence is better, so therefore the mind will acquiesce to what is the more intelligent of the decisions. Does that make sense? The mind trusts the intelligence. Yes. So the point is, is it still, because technically the intelligence is the faculty of the mind, right? It means the subtle body is mind, but it has the subsections of the function of accepting and rejecting, the function of analyzation, and the function of identity. Does that make sense? But it’s technically one thing. Does that make sense? So that’s why on, on, when you look at it from, from analyzation, then you see three, but if you look at it from rasa, it’s one. Does that make sense? So that’s why in the masculine mentality, for them it’s three separate stations, right? In other words, when the man’s intelligent, then there’s, you know, there’s no proper emotional content, or he’s not, there’s no sensuality. If he’s emotional, then there’s no intelligence, and if he’s sensual, there’s also no intelligence, and no, like that. So he has to be able to balance all that, right? But the feminine is all three are the same thing, it’s just, which is more prominent at the time. You know what I’m saying? Like you have, let’s say, you have a meal, and, you know, there’s so many preparations, and they all go together, so it’s not that there’s an order to them, but you have so many preps, it’s one meal. But then you’re eating this now, and tasting, or you’re eating that, like that. That’s the difference. You know what I’m saying? So in other words, it’s one thing that has these. So to help us get control of the situation, so we can benefit ourselves, then that analyzation is there, so that you make it into these distinct categories, so that it makes it easier to deal with. Because like we said, when something is taken apart, it loses its attraction, because you can’t, you can’t do something with it at that time, you know what I’m saying? Because the mind can only do what it does through using intelligence and the ego, right? Unless you have an identity, you can’t do anything, right? Because it’s you and the environment that you’re interacting with, so if you don’t know who you are, then you can’t fit into the environment, you can’t do anything. So people who are insecure, can’t figure out who they are, they don’t do anything, right? The person is, the more confident they are about who they are, the more they get done, right?

Right? So the materialist is very, very convinced, I am the controller, I am the enjoyer, I am this body, you know, and therefore, if I make the endeavor, I will be happy, but the devotee, so they’re very convinced, they’re very active, they get things done, right? And then, because of that confidence, the neophyte can also get distracted and think, but they’re so successful, they will, you know what I’m saying, like that, so they’ll, we’ll turn to them as the example, but all it is is that, you know, their confidence and everything is very strong, but we’re supposed to turn to, you know, the acaryas, where the identity is not false, it’s real, right, the intelligence is analyzing real, the mind is, so therefore, then, they get a lot done, we’re supposed to look at that example, you know what I’m saying, that, that’s, that’s what it’s good for, yes. But don’t you accept the acaryas’ mind, or do you think it’s accepted?

But means, means by, by association, means like, no, we’re, we’re reading here, we’re associating with the acaryas, right? So then we hear that, we discuss that, and then, then it’s, it’s intelligent, so then the mind accepts it, right? So the more we accept, then the more basis we have that being fixed in Krishna consciousness, right? Otherwise, it’s like, okay, we’ve accepted the chanting Hare Krishna, it’s the prime benediction, it’s the main thing, and it’s Krishna, and all that, and that’s great, but I’m not doing that right now, I’m driving my car and trying to figure out if I should go into Dairy Queen and get something to eat, right, you know, so it’s, it’s got nothing to do with the chanting. So, so then you need more things to, to, to start to fill out, you know, include the senses in it, you know, and your decision on the senses, what activities to be done, results, what’s your identity, and as you add all these things in, then, then all these distractions become less and less.

Yes? We read that sometimes that we have to associate with like-minded persons.

What like-minded? Just like-minded means there’s a similarity in, there’s something that’s common, you know, that can be used as the basis of interaction, you know, intellectual, emotional, the particular background, you know, like that, does that make sense? So, so something is common. If you look, anyone that you have as, you know, you consider a friend or an associate, there’s some area that’s common and you’ll find it’s different, you know, one person may be more intellectual and emotional, the other is, you know, cultural, does that make sense? Someone may have all of them, does that make sense? So the point is, is that will make it, it easier, otherwise, sometimes because of the, you know, different elements of the cultural difference, then, you know, on a closer platform you can’t relate to certain things, you know, what jokes they make, or, you know, examples that they’ll use, you know what I’m saying, like let’s say, yeah, does that make sense? So, yeah, you know, you have that, you have the determination in Kṛṣṇa conscious, how Kṛṣṇa conscious they want to be, you know, like that, they’re very serious, or, you know, how they’re doing is, is okay, it’s fine, you know, so you want to be with others who are okay and fine, you know what I’m saying, like that, does that make sense, okay. The words mamaivamsa, fragmental, oh, here it says, also it says here, revives the spiritual body, it means it’s already there, it’s just that you revive, just like somebody’s, you know, just about to die, you revive them, so it’s not that they weren’t there and now you’ve gone in and with, you know, CPR you’ve created a new living entity, you know, like that, so you’re reviving what’s already there, so, yeah. The word mamaivamsa, fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord are also very significant. The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part.

We have already understood in the second chapter that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces, this fragment is not materially conceived, so that means that if the spirit, the spirit can’t be cut into pieces, right, so that also means that the Lord can’t be cut into pieces, so does that make sense, so it’s not that he created the living entities, they were always there, right, but they’re part and parcel of him, does that make sense, it’s just a matter of manifestation or not, does that make sense?

You know, it’s just like, let’s say, you’re working in an environment, let’s say people don’t speak the language so well, right, so then you use very simple language, like with children, right, you know, so then, but it’s not that you don’t know more vocabulary, but then if you’re around somebody who’s more intellectual, you use more of that vocabulary, you know, so it’s not that it wasn’t there, it’s just that, you know, there was no necessity or there was no, no, yeah, there was no necessity, you know what I’m saying, so the living entities are always there, it’s just a matter of manifestation, because Kṛṣṇa is always expanding, like that, so this is where we start to get into the areas where it’s a little bit beyond the limit of one ten -thousandth, the tip of the hair, to accommodate, you know, unlimited, you know, like that.

Yes? It means that all the main religions, they have the concept of creation. They have the concept of creation, yeah, it’s generally what they’re dealing with in creation is the secondary, where you’re taking the material energy and manifesting it in the various forms according to the previous karma of the living entities, so the primary creation they don’t understand at all, right, because generally they don’t even understand the subtle body, you know, what the soul is, like that, there’s confusions, right, some know a little more, some know a little less, right, you know, and even if they know something in one area, then they don’t know in another area, so it doesn’t get put together nicely, you know, it’s just like this, let’s say I can make a fabulous pie crust, okay, but, you know, ingredients that I’d want to put inside, I have no idea, you know, so it’s not that it makes a great pie, and I don’t, eating it, you know, even though the stuff inside is not necessarily very nice at all, I don’t go, while I’m eating it, I don’t go, wow, great pie crust, you know what I’m saying, so that’s the problem with the materialist is that even if he gets things right, it still is wrong, you know, it’s like you have a mathematical equation and let’s say that there’s 20 different parts of it, so if you get one wrong, the whole thing’s wrong, even though 19 of them were done, executed correctly, it’s still wrong, the conclusion’s wrong, so it’s useless, because otherwise, how is it, if the materialist is creating something, he’s made a washing machine, how did he make a washing machine, he has to be doing something right, otherwise how did he get all those elements to work together, right, how did he direct the electricity, you know, I’m sure the first few times didn’t go so well, you know what I’m saying, you know, so the point is, they’re doing something right, but their conclusion of applying it is wrong, so it doesn’t matter, you know what I’m saying, only when those conclusions are seen in light of Kṛṣṇa conscious, then they become useful, right, they made the car, but it’s only useful in doing service for Kṛṣṇa, but mechanically, according to the laws of nature, they’ve done something correct, but their whole purpose in doing it, their conclusion is all wrong, so therefore, there’s no benefit, is that what you’re saying?

Yes, so therefore, it’s not like some material broken part, the Lord’s been broken up into pieces, no, that, the spirit cannot be cut into pieces, this fragment is not materially conceived, it is not like matter, which can be cut into pieces and joined together again, that conception is not applicable here, because you can take the atoms, the material atoms, put them together, and then you can take them apart, you know what I’m saying, in any way you want, you take millions of atoms, put them together, but you can take half of them, and then the other half, you can take it and break that up into small, you know, you can do anything you want with it, point is, is once it gets down to the atom, you’re not going to get any smaller, but you can put it together and take it apart, but the soul, you can’t, right, so that’s why we have the idea of the fragment of it, you have a brick, and then you can break the brick, and you have three pieces, that’s how you get pieces, but here it’s not, it’s not like breaking it, you get pieces, they’ve already, always been there, that conception is not, that conception is not applicable here, because the Sanskrit word sanatana, eternal, is used, the fragmental portion is eternal, it is also stated in the beginning of second chapter, that in each and every individual body, the fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is present, dehinos min yathade he, that fragmental portion, when liberated from the bodily entanglement, revives its original spiritual body in the spirits of sky, again he uses the word revives, its original spiritual body, so it doesn’t mean, you know, it’s another one, you revive the original body, that means there was a body there, and if you say, okay, yes, it was there, but you weren’t using it, but then why would revive be used? Revive means it was active, and then it stopped being active, so you revive it, you know, revives its original spiritual body in the spirits of sky, in a spiritual planet, and enjoys association with the Supreme Lord, and then notice, notice here, all the, did we catch in that sentence, what just happened?

All the four? The four elements of liberation, right? Original spiritual body, so they’re spiritual like the Lord, not necessarily the same shape as the Lord, in the spirits of sky, in a spiritual planet, right? Enjoys the association with the Supreme Lord, so you get all the different, but the focus is not on that, that that’s the whole point, it’s just, no, that’s just how the situation is.

It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one with the Lord, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold, so there’s a difference and non-difference.

Lesson three, living entities compared with the sun and the sun rays, 1334. Of Sanat-partha, as the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire body by consciousness.

So what is the proof of the existence of the soul? There are various theories regarding consciousness. Here in the Bhagavad-gita, the example of the sun and the sunshine is given. As the sun is situated in one place, but is illuminating the whole universe, so a small particle of spirit soul, although situated in the heart of this body, is illuminating the whole body by consciousness. Thus, consciousness is the proof of the presence of the soul, as sunshine or light is the proof of the presence of the sun, right? It means if some light comes in the window, it was dark and light comes in the window, then you know the sun’s out, right? You know, if this light was streaming in the window and then you, you know, you go outside and open the door and go out on the balcony and there’s no sun and it’s dark outside, you’d start to freak out, right? Like that. So the one shows the other.

When the soul is present in the body, there is consciousness all over the body, and as soon as the soul is passed from the body, there is no more consciousness. This can be easily understood by an intelligent man. Therefore, yeah, here he says, this can easily be understood by an intelligent man, so if one can’t understand it, one’s not actually intelligent, right?

Therefore, consciousness is not a product of the combination of matter. It is the symptom of the living entity. The consciousness of the living entity, although qualitatively one with the Supreme Consciousness, is not supreme, because the consciousness of one particular body does not share that of another body. But the Supersoul, which is situated in all bodies, is the friend of the individual soul, is conscious of all bodies. That is the difference between the Supreme Consciousness and individual. Like, we know the limit of our body, we don’t know beyond that. The Lord being situated in every body, then, then he is conscious of all bodies, right? So I guess that could be another definition of every body.

Okay? Does that make sense? So that’s how then we’re establishing. So they’re part and parcel, and how we’re establishing they’re part and parcel is just like the sun ray and the sunshine, right? Yes? Now is it that the Paramatma is situated in the heart of the body of the living entity? Is that correct? Yes. He’s in the citta, not in the heart. That’s just a muscle. No, I mean, is he situated, like, in the core of the Jiva? No, no, because he’s as big as a thumb, and we’re one ten thousandth the tip of the hair, so there’s a bit of difference there. And is Jiva’s consciousness pervades the entire body? Yeah, it probably, you know, doesn’t get to the tips of your hair and stuff like that. And does the Lord’s consciousness pervade the whole creation? Yes. In the same way? Yeah, yeah, that’s why he, you know, that’s, because the universe of form is the universe, so that’s the Lord’s body. So then he’s conscious of the whole thing. Right?

You said the fact, fragmental portion was always there, and Krishna has not created it, it was eternal. Yes. So there might be a question that if he has not created it, doesn’t limit his capacity of creating the Jiva?

It means if he wants, but the point is that they’re there, so that’s not a matter of limiting, it means that’s just who he is, what’s there. You know, it’s just like if we say, we’re limiting Krishna by saying he can’t have, you know, two and a quarter heads, you know, what about two and an eighth? What about three and three sixteenths? You know what I’m saying? It’s like, you know, like that, intellectually, we can always create so many things, because the point is that our ideas, whatever comes to our mind, if our mind can’t just think whatever it wants, then that’s a limitation, so that’s bad. The point is that Krishna is perfect, so however it manifests, it’s already perfect. Like he manifests five rasas, there’s no need of a sixth, there’s no movement to create a sixth rasa, or to drop one of the five. You know what I’m saying? Nobody’s complaining that there’s not more than five senses, you know what I’m saying? Or there’s more than, you know, ten directions, or, you know what I’m saying? Is everybody worried that birds fly, and fish swim in water, and, you know, the other animals walk on the land? You know, no one’s thinking of another one, you know. You know, does that make sense? You know, the elements, no one’s complaining that everything’s only made out of earth, water, fire, air, ether, why not something else?

You understand? So it’s perfect, so it’s just, it’s fine. So, so how it’s arranged, then, is perfect.

Does that make sense? So it’s not in any way a weakness, you know. It’s a perfection that it’s so well-arranged, right?

You know, you can’t ask, well, who arranged it? Because that’s the definition of God, right? You know, who does it for God? I mean, that’s the things, you know, idiots can sit around and say that all day. But in reality, it’s not very useful.

You said it’s a matter of manifestation. Does it mean that some source is not manifesting?

Well, it’s like Prabhupada says this, that the Vaikuntha planets are, you know, at every moment are expanding. So that means there’s a new planet with a new Vishnu-murti, and new all-devotees, and environment, you know, so the dharma expands, and then, you know, so all the potencies expand. So then the jivas will also be expanding.

Like that. So yeah, at every moment, it’s being expanded.

So it’s just a matter of when, you know, it gets around to the one that, you know, happens to be, you know, you. Like that. Like that. Does that make sense? Because as it says here, that’s the only one that we’re, you know, specifically conscious of.

Does that make sense? Because through the senses, we can be conscious of everything else.

Okay. So now, now, now we’re establishing, okay, so we’ve established in this first adhikarana, the constitution, the living entities, right? Like that. Then they’re parts and parcels of Godhead. Then they’re compared, then parts and parcels are compared with the sun and the sun rays. That’s how it is. But then, and they’re qualitatively one and the same, right? So here, we’re ending here. They’re qualitatively one and the same. And that brings us into this.

There are various theories regarding consciousness. Here in the Bhagavad Gita, the example of the sun and the sunshine is given. As the sun is situated in one place. Didn’t we just read this? We’re on lesson four. I was saying, why did I make that point when this went back? Okay. That makes sense. Lesson four. Qualitatively one and the same. 14.2 Oh, what was the other point?

Between the Supreme Consciousness and the individual. So the proof of the existence of the soul is consciousness. And the difference between the Supreme Consciousness and the individuals, we’re only conscious of our body, and God is conscious of everybody.

What does that mean? You say there’s everybody, and then there’s our body. Our body. You know, our body-ness. My body-ness is thinking. Everybody thinks, but my body thinks. Yes. Can this be understood like we are just a brain cell of the brain of God?

No, because the thing is, then that means we’re directly part of that mechanical thing. So that means if you take all the different brain cells, then God’s only made up of Jesus. No, he is everything, but at the same time he’s separate. That’s why sun and sun ray. The sun ray is non-different from the sun, but the sun ray is not what’s making it work. God’s making it work. Does that make sense?

Yes. As the living entity is not the ghost body, so then it’s like what stage of Christian consciousness personality starts to become manifest? The actual personality. What do you mean by actual personality? Like the…

Real?

You mean as in the juice, or…? Real? Real. Real.

I need a subtitle. Real, oh, you mean like those 32mm reels? What do you mean the guy in the fishing pole? Head is spinning.

Maybe you should drink some water.

No?

Yeah, that’s the football club and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, and then Royale is another…

Yes.

So you can remove the drop of water from the ocean, you still have the ocean.

You know what I’m saying? Well, that’s why there’s a limit to using a material example. It’s just something that you can work with. Like that. Because otherwise we only know the material. And so through the material you try to give an idea of God. Just like the example is… It means… Viswanath explains how examples work. Let’s say someone doesn’t know what the moon is. Right? So you take him outside and then you point to something. You point to the direction. They understand direction. You point to the tree. You see that tree over there? And they say, OK, yeah, I see the tree because they know what a tree is. And then you see, OK, up on the left side there there’s that branch sticking out. It says, yeah, I can see that. Just above that there’s that round white ball.

That’s the moon. So the tree isn’t actually what’s important. It’s only useful enough that it gives the… gives an idea. But it means… The example can never fully explain it. You know? Oh, that’s right to me. Like the sun rays and then the sun. I understand that because…

And you get the spray of the ocean and all those things like that. Because the drop… It’s not even made up of drops. It’s made up of, you know, a combination of, you know… It’s basically earth atoms. I mean, excuse me, water atoms.

No, because that’s… But that’s not an atom.

Yeah, but even the hydrogen is not an atom because it also can be divided up. Atom is the smallest portion that can’t be divided. So, what in the Vedic they define as atoms means that modern science hasn’t gotten to yet. Right. I know because they have divided the atoms. Yes. Right, right, right.

No, we’re not talking about the ones on the chart there because we’re talking about smaller than that.

Does that make sense? Yes. It shows quality and quantity the same time as then one has to know the counter because the Mayavadis will say, yes, just like that the water merges in and becomes one with. But the point is, you know, you can take a cup of water, pour it in the ocean, then go back and take the cup of water out and walk off. So, it doesn’t merge.

You know, that’s the thing. It’s just… You know, the green bird and the green tree, there’s still a green tree and a green bird. You know, the greenness may be compatible, but they’re still different.

Probably if you really analyze it, then you’d tell the difference in greenness. I’ve heard that in Ireland they have 40 different names for the different kinds of greenness there. Whether you can confirm that because in the field then it’s slightly different. So they really get into their greenness. Unless they’re orange. Like that. But otherwise, green is appreciated.

Yes? In that analogy about the sun and sunshine, everybody in this little school is OK? Everybody accepts this analogy? It’s used. It’s a Vedic example. The examples that Prabhupada gives, unless they’re obviously using something modern, are always from the Veda. Always Upanishadic and Puranic.

I would think that they would say, because they’ll say it’s been separated away from, so it’s different from. They’ll look at that difference.

That’s the fun part, that they’re the monists, but they’re looking at that the living entity in this form is different from God. But we’re saying, no, they’re the same. So they’re not actually real monists.

Like that. It’s funny, in their exclusive monism, then it’s only the element God, but somehow another us. And the point is, if it’s all God, what do we care whether there’s a merging back into? How can that be? Because you can’t be separated. You’re not separated anyway. It’s an illusion you’re separated. And the problem is the illusion doesn’t have any value, so why worry about it?

Just like when you wake up in the morning, you don’t worry about the dream. But in the dream, you’re worried about the dream. So therefore, even the Mayavadis preaching about how it’s a dream and all that, it’s still just part of the dream.

So it’s basically pretty useful.

The living entity is not the body, or the… Try it again. We thought it like that.

Should we have the clapboard?

The Ulster attempt.

On what stage of Krishna consciousness does the personality of the factual living entity become manifest? The factual living entity. What you’re saying is that before you’re a devotee, you’re not factually a living entity. You’re just an illusion. And then when you bump into the devotees, they come along and adjust the antennas and stuff like that.

When one develops faith in the concept that Krishna is God, I am his servant, then you’re dealing with real consciousness. The point is that it may be mixed with other things. You know what I’m saying? The unreal consciousness.

The point is, consciousness is consciousness. It’s whether it’s pure or contaminated. That’s all. Contaminated means it’s covered. Just like the light is shining and you put a colored glass in front of it, then colored glass comes through. But technically, the light is still the light.

Does that make sense? It’s not like the consciousness is not like a solution of moods? No, no, no. Consciousness is just pure consciousness. It’s a chip. That’s why matter doesn’t have it. Matter is not conscious.

Does that make sense? So, when one gets convinced and we would say one’s at the platform of Shraddha, just that beginning, that’s when it starts. But it matures, you know, prema. It has a tendency.

Once one gets to the point of prema, he’ll never be covered again.

Because there, he’s made his commitment. The point is, is there an option? The difference is when you’re looking at the Lord’s energies, is there an option for separate sense enjoyment or only happiness in connection with the Lord? If that’s understood, that there’s only happiness in connection with the Lord, therefore, dealing separately with the energy will give no satisfaction. So, then you have to deal with his energy in connection with him. So then, what would be appropriate for his pleasure?

Does that make sense? You know, that’s…

That’s proper consciousness? Yes. So then, whenever the living entity then goes back to that false consciousness, and he’s… Then it’s just like you cover it. You know, just like the kids go out and they play in the dirt and mud and then they come back and you wash them off and then they go back out to play again. You know, and then when they grow up they stop going out and playing in the mud. Most of them. Is that the… True. They have the four defects. That’s one of the four defects, getting an illusion? Yes.

Free from that. Once you’re liberated, you’re free from that.

No, it’s not a stepping stone because you’re… See, there’s a difference between merging into Brahman and being situated in Brahman. Right? Because merging means you think you are Brahman. Right? You are the total Brahman. Situated in Brahman just means you’re sitting there. You know, it’s just like you’re sitting in a house. You know, and so that’s not a problem. But if you think you are the house, that’s where the problem is. So when we talk about oneness, we mean that. But the other one is meaning qualitatively one with the Lord. That we don’t have a problem because otherwise, where’s the friendship? Right? We were saying before about swajati. You have a common ground. So there’s, out of 64 qualities, there’s 50 that are common. Right? But for us, it’s minute. For God, it’s unlimited. But based on that, you can interact. Right? And the other qualities that you have are appreciated.

Does that make sense? So is it really dangerous?

Yes. Because the concept of merging in the Lord is a material concept. It’s not a real concept.

It’s a mundane concept. Because in the spiritual world, it’s like, let us say, we have two options here. It’s like a really nice, fancy Mahabhishad suite. Or a speck of dust. You can have either of them. Which do you choose? Okay. So the point is that somebody who doesn’t know about the suite and that there’s an even smaller speck of dust, then they may think the bigger speck is kind of good. Does that make sense? Like that. So that’s the… I was wondering why it’s so dangerous, the idea of…

How is it more dangerous?

Because if you’re interacting with the Lord, what is it based on? How will you interact?

Yeah, but how will that be expressed?

Yeah, and then what do you use in the service? How do you get the service done?

Yes. So therefore, if we’re talking about developing a relationship with the Lord, then in principle, what’s the real problem with material relationships and engagement of the senses? Right? It’s that it’s being misdirected. That you’re seeing things, and you’re talking, and you’re walking, and you’re interacting. That’s not the problem. The problem is that you’re seeing the wrong things. You’re talking the wrong things.

But on the Brahman platform, then that means merging into the Brahman means there is no senses. There is no activity. There is no result.

There’s nothing. There’s no relationship. There isn’t anything. So there’s nothing that you can do for the Lord. So that’s worse. So that’s why the Acharyas will say it’s the worst situation. That means you always avoid bad associations, but if it comes down between a gross materialist and a Mayavadi, then the gross materialist is better. You know what I’m saying? It’s just like saying, you should stay in a clean place, but if it comes down between getting stuck in a urinal or in a septic tank, pick the urinal.

Does that make sense?

Qualitatively one and the same.

14.2. By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the transcendental nature like my own. Thus established one is not born at the time of creation or disturbed at the time of disillusion. So here, the transcendental nature like my own means you’re situated on the transcendental platform. Right? So it is the Brahman platform, but it’s the Brahman platform that is saguna, with qualities. In other words, it’s the relationship between the living entity and the Lord. So it’s situated on that same platform, but it’s not of consequence. You have to be situated somewhere. Just like, let’s say, you want to worship the deity. Where do you have to be to do that?

In the temple. Anywhere in the temple?

In the deity room itself. In the proximity of the deity.

So is that the whole thing? The whole thing is that you got out of bed and I got to get into the deity room. Like that, you get up and I can’t be in the deity room because I have to be clean, so I have to take a bath. And then you get in the deity room, ah, okay, now it’s done. So is that where… So for the devotee, being situated on the Brahman platform isn’t a big deal. That’s just where you work from.

It means how you interact with the Lord. The Lord’s transcendental. So when you’re transcendental, then you can interact. You know, it’s said, when you revive the spiritual form, then in that form you can see the Lord face to face. Because he’s on that platform. Right? That’s his platform.

Does that make sense? So in this case, when we’re using the term transcendental and spiritual, spiritual means without the transcendental. It means you’re situated on the Brahman platform, but we’re not discussing devotion. So we’ll discuss spiritual meaning just getting out of the material world, how to situate oneself in goodness, you know, use knowledge, detachment, like that. But we’re not meaning the spiritual that the Mayavadis are meaning. What they think is that that is the goal and there isn’t anything else. No, we’re not meaning that. Right? So even when we say here spiritual, we’re not meaning their exclusive monistic concept as spiritual, which simply means you’re situated out of the material on the transcendental, on the Brahman platform. But because one’s a devotee, then we call it transcendental. Right? But for analytical sake, then spiritual would be used.

Right? Or when we’re using the term like the spiritual world, we mean it’s not material.

But we don’t say spiritual. The Lord engaged in his spiritual pastimes. It says transcendental because the devotional element is added.

It’s not specifically that the word is that, but that’s how Prabhupada uses it so it won’t be confusing.

Yes, the devotional world. Spiritual world means it’s not material. You know. So all activities in the spiritual world are transcendental. Right? Because they’re off the material platform, but they’re connected to the Lord.

So real spiritual means it’s connected to the Lord. So real spiritual and transcendental are the same thing. You know, so that means like liberation, real liberation is in connection with the Lord. So that’s why then here you don’t have to say then the living entity comes to the spiritual platform and then he’s able to, you know, get the benefits of, you know, being on the same planet, you know, Sarasvati, Samithya, Salokya, and all these different things. No, it’s just, that’s the situation that you interact with the Lord. If you’re going to see the Lord face to face, then you kind of need to be you know, on the same planet and kind of, you know, in a close proximity. So that’s already Salokya and, you know, it already has two elements of liberation.

Yes.

Face to face means you have a face, he has a face, and the faces are facing each other.

If you have a spiritual form, then you’re seeing with spiritual senses, so why you wouldn’t be able to see?

Means you can’t see with your material senses, but with the spiritual senses you can see. Because the point is that you only have the spiritual senses if God’s given blessings that you will be there.

You know what I’m saying? So if he’s given that blessing, then you know there’s a good chance he’ll see you. Right? You know? Does that make sense?

What is the result of perfect transcendental knowledge? After acquiring perfect transcendental knowledge, one acquires qualitative equality with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, becoming free from the repetition of birth and death. One does not, however, lose his identity as an individual soul. So we’re always very careful about that. So when we’re talking about spiritual, you know, unless we’re dealing with some element of Sankhya, that we’re analyzing the point, but at some point we’ll always make this point, so that this point that the individuality of the soul is not lost on the spiritual platform. Because that’s the point, is that he’s an individual, the Lord’s an individual, therefore there’s a relationship. Right? Then there’s transcendental activity.

Right? So, the point is this transcendental knowledge, then you get, it means that you become free from all these things automatically. Right? The impersonalists try to go through spiritual knowledge, they’ll get themselves to this platform. But for the devotees, it just automatically comes. But if you’re doing something bigger, you already get the smaller thing, you know. Yes? Do you understand the principle of merging to be not attractive? Why does the Lord laugh at that as a get-out for the demons?

They’re demons.

They’re demons.

Because they purify the demonic mentality, so when they do fall back down in the material world, then they have a better chance, a better start.

Because you’re liberated, so then when he comes back, you know, you’re a purified soul. Doesn’t mean your desire to control and enjoy isn’t there, so you’re going to find some way to keep yourself busy. But the point is, at least that demoniac mentality is removed.

Yeah. But the point is, those demons killed by the Lord, that’s who you’re referring to. They saw the Lord. Right? They interacted with the Lord. So when they get to the Brahmajyoti, then they can either, you know, because you’re going to get bored at some point, right? So they can either remember the activities of the material world or remember the Lord, right? Because they are liberated, so there’s no as such material contamination, meaning specific material desire, right? There may still be the element of control and joy, but there’s no specifics of that. So then in comparing that on the transcendental platform, then the the interaction with the Lord is much better than the material. So there’s every chance they’ll accept the interaction with the Lord, so then they’ll progress to Vaikuntha. Right? They’re not going to get to Goloka. They’ll get to Vaikuntha. Yeah.

No, but she’s the only one that went to Goloka. The other ones, then they go to Brahman, and you don’t know what happened to them afterwards.

Because there was an element before that’s generally unknown about her situation. When Vamanadeva came into the assembly of Bali Maharaja’s yajna, then Putin in the last life was Bali Maharaja’s daughter.

Right? And so when she saw him, he was so cute and so cute and cuddly, that she just had this, immediately this parental affection came up, and she just wanted to do things and take care of him, and you know, like that. So that came up, and so that was very strong. But then as the pastime progressed, and then Vamanadeva took away everything and tied up Bali Maharaja with ropes and in this way insulted him, right? Because, you know, then she became upset, because the daughter’s relation with the father is very strong. So she became so angry, she wanted to poison him.

Right? So then she had that original parental thing that was in a pure state, but then she wanted to poison him. So then naturally she combined them, so she takes on that parental mood to try to poison him. But after being purified, then she goes back to that natural state.

Does that work now? So that’s why, because none of the other demons were thinking, oh, he’s so cheeky, Hiranyakashipu always does that. Like that.

It just didn’t happen.

Was it also that Yajurda Gurila, who was also in the Vamanadeva association?

Could have been. That association is a problem.

But maybe some, yeah, more definition like that, yeah, I don’t remember.

He was a devotee of Lord Rama. Oh, okay. Oh, he was one of the monkey army. And then he got distracted.

Okay, so the result of perfect knowledge is that one gets qualitative equality with the Lord, but not that one loses his individual identity. Right? Because then in that, then he can be involved in a relationship with the Lord. Right? So that’s why one studies transcendental knowledge. Because it will situate one on the transcendental platform.

Then, what is the difference between material and spiritual knowledge? Material knowledge is contaminated by the three modes of material nature. Knowledge which is not contaminated by the three modes of nature is called transcendental knowledge. Right? One who is situated in transcendental knowledge is on the same platform as the Supreme Person, equal in quality with Him. He attains spiritual form and engages in spiritual activities. The spiritual situation is called devotional life. Right? So here we see the spiritual situation is called devotional life. So we can identify the spiritual aspect of you know, situation in the spiritual world, but it’s called devotional life. Because you’re there, what are you going to do with it? You know, it’s like Mother Jashoda is situated in the spiritual realm. Right? But what are you going to do with it? She’s going to use it devotionally to please Krishna.

Does that make sense?

So we get that too. So the point is that the spiritual so spiritual situation you know, because it’s a connection with the Lord, is called devotional. Therefore we use the term transcendental.

Yes?

Creation is described as being material and spiritual. So we can understand as having matter and spirit. So the conditioned soul can understand that. But then later on we actually realize that it’s all spiritual.

It’s all Brahman. The point is there’s inferior Brahman, there’s superior Brahman. So the material world, whether one sees spiritually or not, is still made out of inferior Brahman. Right? So because inferior Brahman is not conscious, therefore there’s nothing here that the living entity can relate to. Right? So, Krishna enters that, or I should say enters this, right? And he enters this, and then he through his potencies makes everything appear to be real. Though it’s not. Right? Does that make sense? But it’s actually factually made out of external energy. Right? So we understand that the actual illusion is that this energy is not connected to the Lord. So seeing its connection to the Lord, then one is transcendentally situated. Right? So the point is whether you’re using superior energy or inferior energy, you’re going to do the same thing with it. See the opportunities to serve the Lord and, you know, then render that service. Is that what he said? And so that inferior Brahman becomes spiritualized. Yeah, becomes spiritualized, because the point is is they’re both features of the same person. The Lord’s Shastra. And that material knowledge is knowledge.

I remember from Krishna. So it’s the Chit. So the Chit is the knowledge. Chit is knowledge, but this knowledge is the perversion, because it’s knowledge. It’s a potency of the Lord that has no connection to the Lord. So that’s illusion. So that’s therefore under the control of the modes. Because the modes is what creates the illusion. Right? The modes is what moves the world. Right? It means that you’re taking the dead matter, why it moves around is because of the modes. Right? So what is that knowledge?

What is that knowledge that’s in the material world? Knowledge in the material world means knowledge that’s not connected to the Lord.

Right? But it’s knowledge about the Lord’s creation, generally. Right? Or some aspect of it, like that. But because it’s not connected to the Lord, it’s material. You connect it, and it becomes spiritual.

It’s a real potency, but the material energy is a real potency. It’s here.

It’s not an illusion that this manifestation is here. It’s an illusion to think that it’s not connected to the Lord. What’s the source of the material knowledge of Jesus? What’s the source of material knowledge? Yeah. Meaning? Because the real… the… Spiritual knowledge, transcendental knowledge comes directly from the Supersoul. So the material knowledge…

Means this. One is under the control of the external energy. Right? So Maya then arranges it.

Because what is it? It means what is material knowledge? Give an example of material knowledge.

Okay. How to fly a kite. But how is the kite working? How does the kite work? You know, you take out the kite, you know, move into that kind of bigger space behind the sofa, and then run, right?

Yeah? So why does the kite work?

Right. It’s working because of God’s law. So it’s material knowledge because you’re seeing it outside of God. But the point is, the only reason the kite flies is because, you know, there’s the element of wind, and then the drag, and all these different things are the laws of God, and that makes the kite fly. So then how do you…

So once you see that knowledge that’s separate from Krishna, so then how does that link in with the superior Brahman and inferior Brahman? Because those who don’t see things in relationship to Krishna are placed in the material world, where everything you see is made out of inferior energy.

So here, as you understand, when you speak about transcendental knowledge, you are already situated in Bhagavan.

Yes. This means it’s connected. You may be discussing Brahman or Paramatma, but you’re discussing it in connection that Brahman, Paramatma, Bhagavan are one entity, just different features, right? But Bhagavan is the support of the other two.

What will be the difference between transcendental knowledge and spiritual knowledge?

For us, they’re the same because we only study the spiritual platform in connection with the Supreme Lord. But what we’re defining is so that we understand is that, let’s say we’re defining the nature of the soul as being Tathastu Shakyam not of the material energy. This is spiritual knowledge, right? But the reason we’re going through that process is to establish that we’re servants of Krishna, therefore we should serve Krishna. So therefore it’s transcendental knowledge. But you can discuss the aspects that are spiritual, meaning that they are dealing with the Brahman or Paramatma aspect.

Specifically the Brahman aspect of the Lord, the Saguna Brahman. The point is the interaction with the Lord is happening on the Bhagavan platform.

We’re looking at Saguna Brahman so we understand we’re situated there, not within the material.

Spiritual knowledge for us means transcendental knowledge.

Yeah, but can be, but for them it’s generally, for the Jnanis it’s the understanding that the soul is not the body. The soul is beyond the material phenomena.

But that’s all the farther they get. So they only deal with the Nirguna Brahman.

So that means, that’s why we call it exclusive monism, because they only accept Nirguna Brahman. But if you accept Saguna Brahman, means you’re accepting that the Lord is a person and that the Brahman is expanded from Him. Right? The Brahman is situated on Him.

That’s all. Whereas is material knowledge concominated by the mode of ignorance, like knowledge of how to destroy things? It means you have passion is how to create things, goodness is how to maintain things. That’s why you find people are generally good at the first two and not very good at maintaining.

You know what I’m saying? They can make a nice house and get all the things, go out and buy the furniture and get the new curtains and reupholster the things and get the tables and all the things like that, but they can’t maintain it. Very few people, if you go into their homes, the house is maintained.

You know, basic, you know, what I’m saying. So some goodness is there, but that when you go in and it’s just so nice, then that just means there’s more goodness.

Or it can be passion and that it’s a matter of prestige or maintaining at that level because all their other friends do and, you know, it’s a prestige issue so it’s not that they’re doing it because that’s just the natural environment. Or it’s a combination of goodness and passion.

You understand? So everything is good. It means you’re cutting a potato when you’re cooking, right? So you have both the mode of ignorance and the mode of passion working, right? Because the mode of ignorance, you’re destroying the form of the potato. The mode of passion, you’re creating a new form. You know what I’m saying? So for the devotee, the material energy is functioning by the modes of nature, but we’re not under the control. It doesn’t say they go away. We’re not saying the modes of nature disappear. We’re saying our being controlled by them goes away.

That’s a very good point. Does that make sense? Yeah. Because the material energy is controlled by the modes. She’s Trigunamayi. That’s how she does things. Just like the spiritual world is Sambhis, Sandhini, and Ladini. So here it’s good that passion exists. It’s the same. You know what I’m saying? The principle is the same. Just the effect is slightly different.

Is that what you’re saying?

I think okay. But if anybody else needs a break. Everyone’s cool today. Because it’s more warm. So when it’s more warm, you’re cool. When it’s more cold, then you get more antsy.

Yes, it is.

So now we’ve established qualitatively one and the same. So sun and sun rays, now we take qualitatively one and the same. And now we come to the conclusion of this Adhikarana, lesson five. Krishna begets all living entities in the womb of Mother.

Mother nature.

Fourteen three to four. Fourteen three. The total material substance called Brahman is the source of birth. And it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births of all living beings, the son of Bharata. So we’re talking here, he’s talking about material energy is Brahman.

Okay. Now we have an explanation of the world.

Everything that takes place in the material world is due to the combination of kṣetra and kṣetra-jñā. The body and the spirit soul.

Right? So the material world is a combination of kṣetra and kṣetra-jñā. So that’s a way to explain the world. I say, well, what is the material world? So that’s a very direct explanation. It’s a combination of kṣetra and kṣetra-jñā. The reason that there’s manifestation of this world is because of the kṣetra-jñā. Right? Because the kṣetra-jñā has a particular taste, the living entity. Therefore, the kṣetra, the place, manifests in that way. Right? Does that make sense? So based on your previous activities, if it’s pious, you want a certain thing. It happens. You’re not pious, it doesn’t happen.

Right? Does that make sense? You know, you’ve done your work well, you’ve planned properly, you have money. You want to buy something, you can’t. You didn’t work or didn’t plan, you know, so it’s not pious. So then you want to buy something, you can’t. Remortgage. Remortgage.

Okay. How many can you do re-remortgage? Close to the end now.

The mahat-tattva is the total cause of the total cosmic manifestation.

And that total substance of the material cause in which there are three modes of nature is sometimes called Brahman. The Supreme Personality impregnates that total substance and thus innumerable universes become possible. Right? So that total substance is Brahman. So He impregnates that. That’s the mahat-tattva.

Right? So that mahat, that is what then you have the primary creation is happening in that platform, because it’s the Brahman platform. So all the different features of life, all the different situations, all the different activities, the results, you know, what’s right and wrong, everything is already established on that platform. Then, according to the particular taste of the living entity, the manifestation is there, and then one interacts with it as far as what we see. Right? So the living entities have been placed into this mahat-tattva, right, which is the total material energy. And so everything else, all other manifestations are coming from the total material energy. Right? You know, that’s the source of all the material atoms. Right? Then it’s manifest into, you know, particular shapes and forms and activities.

The total cause, you know, the total substance. So, the three modes of nature is what powers it. You know, makes it work. So, this is the description of the same Brahman that the Mayavadis tried to reach? Meaning, they’ve been there already so many times. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s basically probably where they get the… But the thing is, the jiva itself is Brahman. Spiritual world is Brahman. Krishna is Brahman. So, there’s four manifestations of this Brahman. Krishna himself is a person. The internal potency, the external, and the jiva. But all is dependent upon him. He is the Shakti man. And then everything, the other three are Shakti.

You know. So it’s not that he is a category in a bigger category. No. He is the category. Then you can subdivide it. And we say he’s both those categories? He’s everything but at the same time different. You know, that’s the specialness. He’s everything, but he’s different from it. Right? So he is the rug, but at the same time he’s different from it. Because if he wasn’t different from it, then everybody would be sitting on it.

Right? But it’s his potency that makes the rug do what it does. But at the same time, he is a person. He’s separate from that.

That’s his mystic power.

So the following question would be if, at the time of annihilation, we all go to Brahma. So what’s the, you know, I mean, what’s so special about it? That you’d have to ask the Mayavadis. Just say somehow now they really are impressed.

I guess they consider it was a really good time. Yeah, but the point is every creation like that, the living entities are impregnated into this Brahman. So they’re on the Brahman platform. They’re on the liberated platform, but their consciousness is contaminated. That’s why when the manifestation is there, then they immediately get involved.

Like that. So that’s constant. All these states. One’s in the material world, the karma is there. One’s in that state, just that. And then when the Lord sleeps and everybody, you know, is situated within the Lord, then that’s like the void. So these three, you know, how do you say, Raga, you know, Bhaya and Krodha, these all are states that one regularly just goes through in a cycle. So they’re all basically.

Is the Pradhan not mentioned as the total force because it lacks the Lord?

The point is, when he impregnates, then it’s Mahat. You know, does that make sense? So it’s just, that’s the state. By glancing, then it’s Mahat. So he’s interacting with Mahat.

Like that. Because Pradhan just means there is no, it’s just that state of existence. So then with this, then it becomes, it starts to become active.

Because then all the elements separate and then it can do something.

Yes. It’s interesting to think, Mars, that these different stages of Pradhan, Mahatma, you know, undifferentiated modes of nature like that, impregnated with Jiva, it’s not actually snapshots or freeze frames, as I see, like a continuous process. It’s a continuous process, but at the same time all those elements are always there. It’s just a matter of they manifest or not. Pradhan couldn’t turn into Mahat and then manifest the material creation if it couldn’t do that. You know what I’m saying? So it’s just a matter of what’s manifest. So the spiritual world, everything’s always manifest. Material world, then it’s not. Sometimes it is, sometimes it’s not.

Right? But all these things are going on at the same time, anyway.

Like the conditioned souls, like they box things up, though? We box things up because then it makes it very, I mean, we box ourselves up. Jiva’s boxed up in this body, right? So it’s something, it’s quite popular.

Boxing. Boxing, yes. That’s why, you know, the high holidays and the next day is Boxing Day, right?

Box things up. So all the good stuff is all boxed.

Even Christmas Day, they are also giving gifts. Boxing, yes. That’s why it’s called Boxing Day. Means you take, that means that you’ve done so much, right? And so there’s stuff left over, right? So you put it in a box and you give it to someone who doesn’t have so much stuff. That’s what Boxing Day is.

Somehow the English have a way of naming things in a way that are very practical, but at the same time sometimes lack some of the romantic elements.

I guess that’s the Germanic bliss kind of poking through.

Yeah.

Yeah, that’s what Boxing Day is.

Americans like to even give it a completely unpractical name, like a quark, or something like that. A quark is the sound that a seagull makes. That call that they make. A single call is a quark. So they call that particle of the thing a quark. So it’s like, you know. So they either do that or give it something more romantic that you can’t really figure out why they put it like that. Or the day of killing all the turkeys is Thanksgiving Day. Yes, yes. For everybody but the Indians and the turkeys. They didn’t work out good for Indians.

Indians eat tofu, turkey. Yes. Yes.

I don’t think they celebrate it. It’s their holiday. Thanksgiving is a Red Indian holiday. I thought it was like some relief. No, no, no. It’s their holiday. You see, the point is they’re getting benefit from nature. So once a year then they all officially thank the material creation for providing all the facilities and everything like that. That’s what it’s for.

That was their idea. The other one is I guess thanking God that they got this new land and these other guys don’t have guns and so on. And there’s plenty of turkeys.

Someone who’s not smart and you can take advantage of, in slang you call them a turkey.

So there seems to be a difference between the local inhabitants concept of Thanksgiving and the immigrants.

All there is, is Vermont.

But it’s a different kind of Vermont.

You know what I’m saying? It’s just like you have father human and mother human but then you have baby human. You know what I’m saying?

Impregnated means… No, but you’re not in it. Means one’s with Mahavishnu.

And then through his glance, the living entities are sent into the material energy. Right? But it’s also Vermont.

Means you have the internal potency, external potency and the jivas as Shakti. Then you have Krishna as the Shaktiman.

So the Lord’s eternally manifest in these four ways.

It should be understood right, so here it’s saying the Supreme Personality impregnates that total substance, thus innumerable universes become possible. So that means it’s not that he’s impregnating each universe, he’s impregnating the total material energy. And then therefore all these unlimited universes manifest. Right? And so then that process of mahat is manifest in each universe. It’s not that each one is going separately, but the point is is you start with one and deal with that. So you see the whole, the process happening but in relationship to one universe. Right? But it’s because the total material energy has been, this mahat has been impregnated. Therefore all the manifestations of the universes.

Yes. No, the golden age is the universe.

And then he enters into each one. You know, so there’s a portion of that. But you see is that there’s discussion is that Durga’s there on her, you know, tiger and all that, you know, and the Lord glances at her. But that’s nothing to do with the little universes. That having happened, then all these universes can manifest. So in other words, it’s the total material energy. Right? So that total material energy, that’s the mahat.

And then just as the total material energy means earth, water, fire, air, ether, then each universe has its you know, portion of earth, water, fire, air and ether. And then a smaller portion of that gets used for making creation.

In the process of creation, they were created but they couldn’t combine, they couldn’t manifest until they were activated. Yes. But the point is, is the principle mahat just means it’s there in its potent state. But Brahma makes the manifestation where you actually see all the different elements.

Otherwise before that you don’t see.

Pradhan is the state of the material energy when it has not been impregnated.

Yeah, it just means that’s just material energy as it is. Right? But the interactive is the mahat.

Basically. When the Lord sleeps and everybody sleeps.

Yes.

Means the element of Pradhan still is there because all the means Pradhan simply means is all the total substance of all the atoms. But they’re mixed. So mahat means that they’ve been separated. So by the Lord’s glance they’re separated.

Does that make sense? But the point is that total material energy is a person also.

Right?

Yes. Where can we read about the manifestation of God of the person? Where can we read about? Means there’s two Brahma-samhita will give detail. There’s also not sure if it’s either in second canto when it’s describing creation or in the fifth canto or fourth when Maitreya describes Caitanya-caritamrta. Or TLC. That will be done in a very succinct. So it will be one of the conversational. Who’s that?

That’s somebody.

How is that Durga?

Is that Durga the same as Suvadra?

Means the Svarupa-sakti is one energy. Right? Now it can manifest either as what we call the transcendental world or the material world.

Does that make sense? Because it’s the same person. So Yogamaya or…

So Ramadevi means you have both aspects.

Rama means she’s manifesting the spiritual. She’s interacting with Vishnu. But at the same time she’s who’s Durga.

So that’s also where you get the Sadashiva.

Does that make sense? Because as she transforms, he transforms.

Right? So he takes on the mood of Shiva. She takes on the mood of Durga.

So these are all in the category of beyond the box.

Yes?

Yeah, in the last one.

Well, actually not the last one.

Because the one of them, Mohini is there. Mohini is there. She’s the last one. If you’re getting through all the layers, she’ll be the last one. She’s sitting there and worshiping the Lord and everything. You know? And then she invites to come. Why don’t you come?

Take up her offer. You’re not quite sure what’s going to happen, but you just keep going. That’s not where you want to get involved.

See, is that the point is what is interesting? If I say you have to do this, right? You have to be spiritual. Right? It won’t be as attractive as you can be material or you can be spiritual. If you’re material, this is what will happen. And if you’re spiritual, this is what will happen. So naturally, the intelligent person takes the spiritual. Right? But if you have to take the spiritual, it loses its attractiveness.

Does that make sense? So it’s options.

Right? So the whole idea is that that’s why the feminine nature will always throw out the option of what is not important and not necessary or not to be done. Because then it makes what should be done attractive.

You know what I’m saying? So it’s just, in other words, that playing with that element is for the purpose of creating interest in what’s right.

Does that make sense? So therefore, then Mohini will throw out the option. Maya does also. Are you sure?

You used to do this before. You really liked it.

And then it’s a matter of, no, no. Sure. It made you real happy. No, no. It’s okay. It’s fine. Not that they become upset. They just have to throw this out too. That’s just the way it works. Otherwise, it’s just, no, you have to do this. Then it becomes boring.

You know what I’m saying? Yes.

No, yeah.

Because then she’ll deal with you just as a yoga master.

Yeah. She’s always helping. I mean, it’s just like this. Let us say, okay, we’re working on the principle that a house -trained dog would be considered good. Okay? Now, how do you train this dog?

Right? Whenever it does something wrong, you know, it gets a whack. You know? Does that make sense? So, that’s the point. Maya’s trying to domesticate us. But we’re very determined to be fair.

So all the difficulties that come up, those are just Maya telling you that that’s the wrong thing to be doing.

They can also train them by faking them out. You know, it’s like the mechanics of the dog looks like something that’s about to take place, and then they fake it outside on the right place, and then they give it a treat, you know, good, good, very nice, but it’s also silly. We’re not getting so many of that. But the thing is, I mean, that’s where the weakness of the employee falls apart, is that, um…

Oh, no, it doesn’t. Because the point is, once you’re trained, then what can you do?

Go in the house. Right, yeah. So in other words, then, you know, by chanting and that, that’s the treat.

So both are going on at once.

Maharajji, did you also say that elevations have this kind of devotional content? Yeah. Yeah, you could say it’s a treat. I mean, we’ll generally say it’s a treat to go to the heavenly planets, but it’s just like this. You just, you know, drove down whatever is that street, and you bought yourself a nice big mansion and all that. You know, you’re quite happy with that. Because you’re in the neighborhood, then you get invited to someone else’s house in the neighborhood. And then when you, you know, get in your nice car, you and your wife and kids, you know, you drive in, you know, up to their gate, you know, there’s a guy there, you drive in, and then his driveway, you know, just not, just in, right there.

No, you’re just as much an anxiety as you were when you were in the, you know, another neighborhood, you know, that you wanted to get into this, now that, because the difference between you and them is just as big. In other words, how much is the difference you’re supposed to, you know, be in anxiety about? It’s still the same. You know, you have nothing and then there’s the millionaires, and then the millionaires, then there’s the guys that have a hundred million.

So it’s always the same.

So when you get to the heavenly planets, the point is, is that someone’s always done more piety than you. So they’re a bit more fit, or they get a few more facilities, or their house is bigger, or people like them more.

So it’s the same thing. Otherwise, it was just so perfect. Why does, you know, how you say, Indra always, you know, had these difficulties.

You know what I’m saying? So in other words, you’ve been pious, but you’re still, your material determination, your material attitude goes with you.

You see?

Yeah, it’s said in, you see it in Brihadbhagavatamrita, when all the, it means you have all the demigods that are there, headed by Indra, and then all the, you know, sages, you know, headed by Brihaspati and Bhrigu and all them, they come down to the court for when they have, you know, their regular meetings, right? So they attend. They’re not the managers of the universe, but they’re there for advice and all that. So when they come, the residents of the heavenly planets are actually, you know, slightly jealous of them, right? Even though, you know, that means it’s, you know, somebody, they’re walking, and they don’t wear fancy ornaments and, you know, all this and that, and they live in a little hut. But they’re so much more powerful. You know, like that. So their prestige is higher.

You know, does that make sense? So it mentions that there is that sense, they don’t manifest it, it won’t be seen in their etiquette or anything, but it’s there in the heart. So that means there’s a suffering. Even though you’re in the heavenly classroom, you’re suffering. You know, just like on this platform, somebody from a rich background, they suffer just as much as the person from the poor background. There’s no difference.

You know.

Does that make sense? You know, the one kid, you know, the mom says, you know, you know, go pick up your room. Your room’s a mess. The other one says, go get the service to pick up your room. Your room’s a mess. Oh, mom, you know, can’t you tell them? You know, why do I have to always tell them? Like that. You know, all that kind. You could have been watching, you know, the telly for another five minutes, but you had to, I mean, five seconds, but you had to SMS your servant to tell him to pick up the room. You know, I mean, it’s, it’s definitely, you know. Yes, it’s a problem, you know. It’s devastating.

Yes. Yes.

Sometimes called as Brahman. Because generally we talk about just the material world. But sometimes it’s called Brahman. You know, as Krishna here called it. He says, I am pregnant. The total material substance called Brahman is the source of Earth. In other words, the manifestation of you in forms is coming from this total substance called Brahman.

It should be understood that all species of life or son of Kunti are made possible by birth in this material nature. And that I am the seed giving father. Vritti, samsaya. At this point a doubt may arise. Is material nature dependent or independent of Godhead? Right? Then the objection. In Bhagavad Gita, 16.8, it is said. They say that this world is unreal. With no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust. Right? Because through this lust, then you have children. It’s through the lust that you have all the things of this world. But one time it was probably, I think, down at the Boston Harbor. Right? Huge place and all the machineries and the boats and everything. It’s a very, very major activity. So Prabhupada said, what does all this mean? Devotees say, oh, it’s maya, it’s all this, it’s all that.

And after saying so many different things, Prabhupada says, no, it’s sex life. The kind of life.

It’s something I don’t know about here. And so then Prabhupada says, why is this here? Because some guy wants to he’s doing this to make the money so that he can have sex life in a particular way. He’s not going to be happy in some little studio apartment. It’s like that. He’s got to be on the penthouse suite. But to do that, he has to be running the port. So that’s the point, is they think the material energy is produced through sex life and there’s no other cause than lust. Because it’s simply their desire. That’s what makes it happen. They want it, that’s what happens. So that’s the cause.

Siddhanta. Srila Prabhupada replies to this doubt as follows. So this adhikarana, we’re dealing with the point of the living entities, the material, you know, are they coming from matter or are they the same as God? So we basically establish that. Now establishing that, then here we have to say is that they’re manifesting from the material energy, but they’re not material energy. And they come to the same transitional position as God, but they’re not God. So now this will bring up this doubt, is that the next doubt will be is the material energy independent or not? So that takes us into the next adhikarana. So this is material nature subordinate to Godhead. So now we’ve discussed the jiva. So you have to discuss in Sambandha-gyana the jiva, the Lord and material energy.

So here, adhikarana two. So this is lessons six through fifteen.

So lesson six. Nature and the living entities are subordinate to the Lord. Nine, ten.

This material energy, which is one of my energies, this material nature which is one of my energies, is working under my direction, O son of Kunti, producing all moving and non moving beings. Under its rule, this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again. So under its rule, but it’s working under his direction. So he sets the laws and then the material energy sees that it gets done.

Just like the warden has authority, works under the state, but it’s not that for everything they have to call. The warden calls in and you know, should I order new brooms? No, they just know what to do and they take care of it. Yes.

Means she’s always manifesting.

Means she, in other words, just like you have the internal potency as a person, so the external potency is a person.

But she just stands outside.

Does that make sense? She’s the shadow of the internal potency.

Does that make sense? So she’s always there. If you have the Lord and you have the internal potency, then you’re always going to have the shadow.

Why is she created?

That means just what Krishna said here. This material nature, which is one of my energies, is working under my direction. Right? Producing all moving… Under its rule, this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again. So it functions by the modes of nature.

So passion means creation, goodness means maintenance, and ignorance means destruction. Because in the spiritual world, you don’t have goodness, passion, and ignorance. There’s only vishuddha-sattva.

Right? So there’s no creation, there’s no destruction.

So because she works with material modes, therefore… Does that make sense?

Just like God is.

Just like God is. Right? How big is the jiva?

Yes. But how much space and proportion is it conscious of?

You know what I’m saying? So it’s not a problem to be… be…

definable and unlimited in the same way. Because for one ten thousandth of the tip of the hair, the size of this body is basically unlimited.

You know what I’m saying?

Does that make sense? It’s just like the jiva situated in the body is like, you know, the person, the entity is the body being in the universe.

Om Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. Krsna Krsna. Hare Hare. Hare Rama. Hare Rama. Rama Rama. Hare Hare.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • The living entity is struggling because he is identifying with the modes of nature.
  • Doubts and misgivings.
  • Removing one doubt always establishes another.
  • When the mind has accepted that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best thing to do, then the intelligence can point out what decisions will be favorable for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Intelligence can point out what is the best option, but still the mind has to accept it.
  • Subtle body is primarily mind, but it has the functions of analyzation, of accepting and rejecting, and of identity.
  • 9:50 Men have only one faculty functioning at once, either emotional, or intellectual, or sensual. For a female they all function at once.
  • The mind can only do what it does with the help of the intelligence.
  • The spirit cannot be cut into pieces, and that also means that the Lord cannot be cut into pieces. So He did not create the living entities, they were always there.
  • Consciousness is the proof of existence of the soul.
  • If one cannot understand things about the soul, one is actually not intelligent.
  • Whatever Kṛṣṇa has created is perfect. We may think of something else by speculation, but it does not mean that it is important.
  • 36:20 How examples work. Material examples are always limited, but still we have to use them because presently all we know is the material world.
  • 37.50 What Vedas call an atom the modern science has not yet gotten to.
  • The impersonalists are actually dualists. If everything is a dream then Māyāvādīs preaching about it is also a dream.
  • The concept of merging in the Lord is actually a material concept.
  • 48:00 Why is impersonalism more dangerous than materialism?
  • 49.00 The real problem with material relationships is that they are misdirected, but the form is the same as spiritual.
  • For a devotee, being situated on the Brahman platform is not a big deal, it is just what one works from.
  • 55:00 Seeing the Lord face to face
  • We should be very careful to note that the individuality of the soul is not lost on the spiritual platform.
  • Being a demon killed by the Lord is better than being an impersonalist.
  • From remembering Kṛṣṇa in the Brahmajyoti, demons progress to Vaikuṇṭha.
  • The only demon who attained Goloka was Pūtanā because she had previously shown affection to Kṛṣṇa.
  • 69:00 The difference between spiritual and transcendental knowledge. For devotees they are the same, but discussion on the level of Brahman is for situating ourselves properly, while knowledge of Bhagavān is to develop relationship with Him.
  • The modes of nature does not disappear for a devotee, but us being controlled by them goes away.
  • Why are living entities ‘impregnated’ in the material nature?
  • Subhadrā and Durgā Devī.
  • All the difficulties we experience are Māyā trying to train us.

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