16.9. Following such conclusions, the demoniac who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world. Demons are the enemies of the world. The materialists who have no God concept, no concept of God, think that they are advancing. But according to Bhāgavad-gītā, they are unintelligent and devoid of all sense. They try to enjoy this material world to the utmost limit and therefore always engage in inventing something for sense gratification. Such materialistic inventions are considered to be advancement of human civilization. But the result is that people grow more and more violent and more and more cruel. Cruel to animals and cruel to other human beings. They have no idea how to behave towards one another. Animal killing is very prominent amongst demoniac people. Such people are considered the enemies of the world because ultimately they invent or create something which will bring destruction to all.
So they are simply absorbed in themselves. They are being lost to themselves. They are only absorbed in themselves. There is nothing else important for them. Therefore, no intelligence because they are not discriminating between matter and spirit. We are not saying that they don’t have intelligence to figure out how to make these inventions. How to take advantage of the situation for sense gratification. We are saying because they can’t understand the difference between matter and spirit, then ultimately their endeavors have no benefit. It’s not according to scripture. Therefore, not being according to scripture means that you are going to do something that is not beneficial. Because the Lord, for the harmony of the universe, created Varnashrama to maintain that harmony. And he created, therefore, kshatriyas to see that it goes on properly, to manage it. Brahmins to be able to practice it and teach it. Does that make sense? Vaishyas to take care of the land and cows. Shudras to assist the others. So that it’s already been established like that. Your brahmacharya life is meant to cultivate understanding of Brahman. You have the practice and knowledge necessary for a lifetime of pursuit of Brahman, understanding the transcendence. Grihastha life, then, for engaging one’s desires and for seeing to the flourishment of the culture. Vanaprastha to pull oneself back from that. Sannyasa to completely give up the attachment to the world. So these are very straightforward, natural orders for the proper maintenance of the universe. If we take it, the universe is God’s and its purpose is God-realization.
But if we take it that it’s not, it’s simply based on sex desire. Therefore, the only point is to enjoy oneself. Then, that means all intelligence will be used to exploit whatever facilities are here to create the better environment for sense gratification. But, because that’s not how the universe is designed, it’s always going to be not in harmony with how the universe runs. And, as I said before, because everyone has their own idea. There’s no standard idea. If you follow the Veda, there’s a standard idea. If you don’t follow the Veda, there’s no standard idea. So then, they’re going to do, as mentioned here, unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world. So, because we’re so used to it, you don’t notice it so much. But, the various elements that go on is dealing just with the natural facility. It means slaughterhouses, millions of animals are killed. So that’s a lot. It’s not like a few here and there. It’s not like the local butcher, you know, like that. We’re talking about hundreds of thousands, you know, like this. And, like this, there’s so many slaughters. So, already that’s there. Let me say, okay, well, that’s there. They have to eat. But then, all the waste from these slaughterhouses, they have a problem because whatever land they put it onto, that land will grow nothing. Why? I mean, it’s just the way it works. You know, Bhumi Devi must not be very pleased. But, if they put all the waste from there onto any piece of land, it won’t, it’s not, you can’t grow anything on it anymore. You know, so, this, you have so much of the, to do that, then you have so much of the forest you have to cut down. Right? So, therefore, then there’s less air. Right? You know, like that. Plenty of carbon dioxide, enough for everybody, but, you know, oxygen a little bit less, right?
So, like this, the mining, all the different, you know, their oils, their weaponries, right? You know, here, it makes atomic weapons and all that. They blow up everything. They can’t use them, but they have them. Right? Well, they always call it a deterrent to keep everybody else from. The problem is, is the ones that you don’t have to worry about are the ones who won’t use it. It’s the ones who would use it that you have to worry about because, to them, it’s not a deterrent. Just because you have one doesn’t mean that they won’t have one and use it. Does that make sense? So, even less intelligent amongst the no intelligent.
Right?
So, all these different things, all they do is destroy the place. Right? It means your Vedic system, you come in, there’s a war. The war is between soldiers, not anyone else. So, you have it out in the field. You have your fight. Whoever’s left standing, they win. You know, like that. Pretty simple. You know? Like that. But in the modern, then you have the fights in the cities. You blow up the cities. Everybody’s life is disturbed. Right? And then, even if you didn’t completely destroy the city, once you defeat the other party, you go in and kill everybody and steal everything that you want and everything. But before it was, no, you’re fighting over the city. It means you want the city in place. You don’t want to destroy the city. Right? So, the fighting’s outside. You win. Then you go in and you manage the city nicely. It’s already running. So, now you make it run. You keep it running. Does that make sense? So, even the concept of war doesn’t create such disturbance.
Does that make sense? So, all these different things. If one follows Shastra, then one avoids all these kind of things. Right? But if not, then, as it says, unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world. So, in this way, yeah. It doesn’t mean that the individual is necessarily the enemy of the world, but just the work that they do, that’s the problem. Every colleague?
Yeah. Like that. I mean, I conjecture that, you know, maybe this time they were the Beatles, next time they’ll be the cockroaches or the ladybugs, you know, some kind of bugs.
But it’s always the same thing, because you have modes. As you adjust the modes, then these go. So, does that make sense? So, you just keep adjusting the modes, and so you get all these things. And it keeps going, you know. Like that, you could say it’s going in one direction. But no, it’s like, before the Victorian age, then, yeah, before the Victorian age, the dress in that was much more open and liberal, what we call now liberal dress. Like that. And then in the Victorian age, then everything became, you know, basically from your nose to your toes, just covered, right, you know? And then your head also. You know what I’m saying? So, it’s just, everything changed, and then they start to go, you know, so-called liberal again. So, then I think, oh, they’re getting rid of all this. No, it’s just, these things keep going back and forth, back and forth. You know? Does that make sense? It’s just, there’s no standard of it. So, it’s always going in a cycle. You know, now, there was a herb growing during the Roman time. It’s extinct now. That it was basically like your modern, I guess we call it, Viagra, is that how you say it? Like that. So, they had some herb that was their job, right?
So, they were so absorbed in it that even there was less, they would use it all so that there was none left. They wouldn’t even keep some for replanting.
Like that. So, they completely wiped the whole thing out, right? You know, then a few thousand years later, they find an artificial, you know what I’m saying? So, it’s the same thing, you know? You say, oh, modern living, you know? It’s like people had a house, and now it’s modern living. You live in an apartment. No, Romans designed apartments. You know, like that. Any of these old cultures, I think it was the Navajo and all that, they live underground in apartments. So, it’s not an uncommon thing. The modern man, because he’s doing it, therefore it’s new. But all these things have always been there. There’s nothing really new. And what they do make up that’s new is just better for, you know, basically, destruction of the world.
You know, like that. It’s before, it’s like you had martial skills. You went out there, you had your sword, or whatever it is, and you had to actually be good, you know? But nowadays, you can take a guy that you’ve trained for three months, and then he can go and shoot you. You know what I’m saying? So, you lose all the different culture and everything that’s there, you know? It’s before, it took discipline and all that. You had so many years of practice and that.
So, the difficulty is that it’s just all meant to make a mess of things, because it’s not a cooperation. Because in human life, there’s cooperation. Like, it means that fighting, then it’s the chivalry. You know, that feeling of chivalry. But now, where’s the chivalry? You know, where is that? You know, you’d see before, is that somebody was so good at fighting that he would defeat, you know, the enemy. The enemy would even be impressed. You know, that this guy’s a good fighter. And they would all, you know, log and stuff like that. Or even sometimes, even leave them. You know, because they did so good. And okay, they’re escaping. We could chase them down, but they fought so well, we’ll leave them for now. We’ll catch them later. You know? Like that. But, you know, today was a good fight. You know what I’m saying? But now, no, it’s just, you know, you can’t sleep. Before, you could go back, rest, spend time with your friends and everything, recover, and then you could be ready for the next day of fighting. But now, no, they just keep fighting, so no one can sleep, no one can eat. And this way, you wear them down, and somehow, that’s considered advancement.
Does that make sense? So it’s advancement, maybe, okay, they officially get their war done, but as far as human life and values, there’s none. Because the method you would use is the methods according to your lifestyle. But if they’re decarnationized so rapidly, we still have 400,000 years to end up becoming a god.
Yeah. So it’ll get worse. So if you think it’s bad now, everyone’s going, oh no, it’s so bad you can’t… No, no, this is good. This is called good. You should see what it is at the end of consciousness.
It seems that Arjuna is born with divine qualities, but it seems that most of us, we are born with non-divine qualities.
We seem to be endowed with the non -divine qualities.
Yes, well, that’s why devotional service is the point. So when we talk about functioning on just being good and moral and politically correct, it’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that any of us are qualified for that. You know what I’m saying? Because the political correctness is already demoniac. Because it’s not according to Shastra. It’s not in harmony with the universe. It’s only in harmony with a couple of Western countries that they use it only for political correctness. It’s not a lifestyle. We’re foolish enough to use it as a lifestyle. Do you know what I’m saying? So it’s just like, just as it says that association with women is a difficulty, but association with those attached to women is worse. So associating with the politically correct is bad, but associating with those attached to political correctness, that’s worse.
Do you know what I’m saying? So except for devotional service, there is no chance of acting in a way that is progressive. Because these others aren’t progressive. We say it is. It’s been going on now for a little over 200 years, this particular kind of concept of this enlightened secular method where by device then they are separating everything from God consciousness. But it’s not improving things. Right? Does that make sense? They make some inventions, as you said, such materialistic inventions. You can say yukta-vairagya, but why are they making the inventions in the first place? We’re using them, that’s one thing. But why are they making them? Do you know what I’m saying? Because of the demoniac.
So it’s not that it’s beneficial.
It’s supposed to improve the quality of life. How has it? Right? Improve cleanliness, improve medicine, improve some of these other things. But why these other elements?
Do you know what I’m saying? People had fresh air out in the countryside, fresh fruits and vegetables, like that, in touch with the land and nature. And so, okay, they could be a little more clean, right? They could know, you know, better about, add some medicine, you know, add some education if they don’t have that. But instead, they all move into the city, and then, instead of it all being natural, it’s all cement. Somehow or other, that’s vast improvement.
You know what I’m saying? So the point is, is the problem comes because that’s not how Krishna wants the humans to live. Because it doesn’t matter. You pack them up like that, ants are packed up like that. So, you know, it’s like, you know, you could probably put ten times more in a city, in these world cities, than is there now that’s got ten million. You could have a hundred million in the same spot, right? Then you’d start getting close to ants. You know, so being packed up like that, that’s not the actual problem. The problem is that’s the lifestyle for ants, not for humans. Right? So who dictates that? God dictates that. You know, just the, oh, it’s not natural, it’s not, so but what’s, what’s, what is so great about natural? Right? Because we look at it, Sanskrit, because if you’re natural, then you’re healthy. You’re healthy then, according to demons, more sex. Right? If you’re not healthy, no sex. Healthy, sex.
So it has nothing to do with, with that it’s good on its own. It’s good because that’s the way God says it is. Then it’s progressive. Otherwise, it’s just for the body. It’s healthy for the body. So what?
Right? You know what I’m saying? But the fun part is, is devotees talk about natural, natural, how many live on the farm? Right? Like that. They’re happy right in this city and in their Tesco’s and stuff like that. Like that. So it’s, it’s just a show.
Yes? It seems to me that the new inventions, the technology, if they serve for the, if they’re used for the service. If they’re used for the service, then, then you can use them, but you don’t require them. Just like a letter works quite well. They’ve been using letters for as long as there is recorded history. Right? You know, so you can communicate. And why do you have to communicate with somebody on the other side of the planet anyway? You want to know why? Because we were discussing this morning, is those who have a very particular opinion, you know, and very narrow-minded, then they have their own group that’s around them. They’re not going to be happy with a friend on the other side of the planet. Right? It’s got to be somebody right there you can sit down and drink with, you can laugh with, you can whack on the back, you know, you can do something with. Right? But, but as I was saying, this modern kind of liberal element, then, because you consider yourself as the higher level intellectual of the world, then, then, then how many people are like that? So unless you had internet, you wouldn’t be able to find enough people to make a quorum for something. You could say, yeah, it’s twenty people, yeah, that’s twenty people out of the whole planet.
You know? And here we’re being liberal. I guarantee it’s four or five. And actually it’s only two or three. And specifically it’s yourself.
You know what I’m saying?
You know what I’m saying? That’s what you have to do. Before it was just, you know, within the village everyone got together and they found a partner and they got married. Now you have to, you know, go into some chat room and you’re talking, God only knows who it is. Like that. They present themselves as this person, you know, this nice, you know, twenty-one year old, you know, college graduate and stuff like that. And you find out it’s a forty-five year old truck driver, you know, with a mustache. You know, nothing to do with reality at all. Right? You know? You know what I’m saying? So, so there’s something wrong here. So, it’s not necessary. Since it’s here, we’re using it, but it’s not necessary. You can get from one village to the next with a horse cart.
You know what I’m saying? Why do they have to go out? Because before, anywhere where you were, you could live.
Now it’s, you know, your house is over here, your work’s over here, your vacation, it’s wild. So we’ll say, no, it’s necessary. No, it’s not necessary. But since it’s there, it can be used. But the point is, the reason it’s there is for sense gratification.
You know what I’m saying? They haven’t made airlines because they think that the whole world is, you know, needs the benefit. They have airlines because it makes money. It doesn’t make money. They close the airline. You know what I’m saying? If the phone company doesn’t make money, they close it. It’s not a welfare work. Oh, people need to communicate and you have to increase the communication between. That’s not why. It makes money, they go. If it doesn’t make money, it falls.
That’s all. It’s that simple.
You know?
So now, mainly, everything runs on…
Well, according to this, everything runs on the basis of sex. You understand? You have sex? No, that’s the point.
Kama means you have to have artha. There’s no artha, there’s no sex. No money, no sex. You know? But what they’re missing is no dharma, no artha. And the purpose of dharma is God consciousness for elevation. So that’s the…
Yeah, I mean, the demoniac, it’s always this, but it doesn’t mean that they won’t follow the Vedic things to get it. But nowadays, then, you know, that’s the point of Kali Yuga. The other three yugas, they all follow the Vedic, you know, but whether they’re following it for sense gratification or not. So there, everyone’s following the Vedic culture. But then, in the present age, then, it’s either those who follow scripture or those who don’t follow scripture.
Yes, yes.
What you say means there’s fruitive workers. So… Yes, but there’s still fruitive workers. So, there’s fruitive workers who follow the Veda, and there’s fruitive workers who don’t follow the Veda. And then you have those who are intellectual, that that’s what they do, do basically as their lifestyle. But those who follow the Veda and those who don’t, right? And then yogis, I mean, yoga clubs are proliferating like anything all over the world. But it doesn’t… following the Shastra. So these are the non-following the Shastra so much yogis.
You know what I’m saying? So it’s always the same thing. It’s just how nice and clear it is. You know what I’m saying?
You know, before it was, you know, this big huge monster guy with horns on his head and teeth, like that, and a club and all that. Then, and could fly in the sky. You know, he’s a demon, right? Like that. Now it’s some, you know, you know, grandmother sitting somewhere that, you know, like that. So it’s just…
Does that make sense?
Earlier there were no atheists.
It depends how you define atheist. It means you would say, you could say previously they were all Gnostics.
Right? It means they believed in authority and scripture and like that. But, it’s not that they had a full understanding of God. So therefore, because they only, technically because you don’t accept the personal feature of the Lord, that’s atheistic. Because it’s against the theology.
God is Brahman, Paramatman, Bhagavan. But, it’s, but it’s based on Shastra. So it’s a step up. So from there, you can simply add the personal understanding. Because they’ve already accepted Shastra and everything like that. Does that make sense?
I’m not used to it.
Someone who doesn’t understand actually the position of God.
You know what I’m saying? So, how many, you know in a cauliflower?
You know cauliflower? Right? And on the cauliflower there’s little flowerets. Right? So, how many flowerets does it take to make an actual real cauliflower?
No, no, no. That’s the question. It’s not a matter of me. How many of those little dinky ones, you know, does it take to make a real cauliflower?
But exactly how many? There must be a right number because if it has one more or one less it won’t actually be bonafide.
Right?
No? Or is it that if it has these qualities whether it’s smaller or bigger it’s still a cauliflower? If I go to the market and there’s a cauliflower that size, is it a cauliflower? What happens if one’s this big? Right? What about this big? Then you get worried. You look around for very happy giants in their green color. You know, you don’t want to get stepped on. So, it’s a cauliflower. So, you want this exact down to the, you know, letter definition of an atheist. But a cauliflower can have all this wide variety. So the point is to that degree that they don’t understand the position of the personality of Godhead. To that degree it’s atheistic. So they may believe in God but not actually as God as a person. So it’s partially theistic, partially atheistic. So the point is when you’re dealing with such people, since theism is there, you only cultivate the theistic aspect. You don’t tell them they’re atheists.
Right? And people who have no faith in God, they’re atheists.
But otherwise, anything between understanding the personality of Godhead, right, and that, you know, we’re the soul and, you know, we’re supposed to serve Him in devotion. Anything between there and no faith in God, that God exists, all that has elements of atheism in it.
Does that make sense?
That’s the whole point. That’s the point. We get the black, we get the white. You know, but what’s the real grey? You know, is that actually grey over there or is something else grey? Is that grey? Or is only that grey over there?
Does that make sense? What about his shirt? Is that grey? What about the cheddar? Is that grey? But they’re all different because there’s different degrees of black and white. So more black, more atheistic, more white, more theistic.
That, of course, that’s definite.
Yeah, but within, but at the same time as those who believe in it are the Mayavadis atheists. Yeah.
But the point is is when it comes between those who accept the Vedas and don’t, we’re on the side of those who accept the Vedas. You know what I’m saying? So therefore, when it comes to establishing that you follow the Veda, then us and the Mayavadis will say the same thing.
You know what I’m saying? I’ve seen it in Purports to a Promise talking about the glory of India and how it’s based on the Vedic literatures and that. And he’s using people like Mahatma Gandhi. And you can see India’s produced Mahatma Gandhi. Right? You know, other countries have not produced a Mahatma Gandhi.
Right? Why? Because he studies Gita. He had that faith. You know, it’s politically applied. But he’s still, you know, right? Does that make sense? So therefore, he’s saying, see, India’s producing all these. They have international influence.
Right? But then, there are those who follow, you know, properly. You know, there were Parampara and those who are not. So then that cuts out all this Hindu -Vindu kind of stuff. And it leaves you with the, you know, those who are properly in lines. Does that make sense? You know, of that, then you have the Vedantists.
Right? Then, you know, so then it’s the Vedantists against everybody else. So then Shankara is still on our side. Right? But then as soon as we get to Vaishnava and the personal understanding, that’s when he ends up outside.
You understand? So depending upon what you’re establishing, then these will be applied.
You know what I’m saying? So Buddhism is automatically atheist. Because it doesn’t accept, you know, the personal aspect of God. It doesn’t even actually accept the concept of God. accept what Brahman really is. Right? It’s a whimsical concept of Brahman. You know, how can something have no qualities but you can describe it as having no qualities? If it has no qualities, there’s nothing to describe.
You understand? So that’s the problem.
Yes, such people are considered enemies of the world because ultimately they will invent or create something which will bring destruction to all. You know, right now they may seem like nice guys but the direction they’re moving, they’re creating more and more things to destroy. Like, you have a gun, right? It shoots one and then they make machine guns that shoot quicker, right? But there’s only so quick you can shoot. So now they made these special kinds of guns where they can fire like millions of rounds a second. It’s like a wall that’s just filled, that has all, you know, guns in it. So each one of them, you know, because the gun can only fire so much per second but if you have a thousand of those, you know what I’m saying?
So it’s like those, you know, you have something, you shoot it and it falls over. This one, they shoot it and it’s not there anymore.
Does that make sense? So it’s just like they’re coming up with more and more stuff like this.
And this is the stuff we find out about. That means this kind of old hat, you know, it’s no big deal.
Like I mentioned there was that one guy who was in Jaipur doing a documentary on these monkeys, the Hanuman monkeys and he had this camera that he got that it was, it had just been released by the army that could go into public circle. You have to connect it to your computer and it will take, I think it is, I think it’s something like 10,000 frames a second.
You know, regular movies are 26 a second. Just 10,000 a second.
Right? So he’s studying when the monkeys jump and you can get every little bit, you know, and all this and how their muscles and all that work. So this was, they were using it to study how a cruise vessel worked.
You know, and just to make sure there was everything. So 10,000 frames a second for them isn’t even useful anymore. They don’t even consider it, you know, military level. So now the public can get it.
Does that make sense? So that’s how, you know, so he says ultimately they will invent or create something, you know, 610. Because they’re not working on scripture, because they’re working on scripture, it limits what you’ll create. It doesn’t mean you don’t come up with nicer and better ways of doing things. Because they can say, oh, but then that will limit. It’s like people today cannot do the craftsmanship. It’s just like if you said today, it doesn’t matter how much money you spent, you probably could not recreate, you know, some of these cathedrals in the world.
Like that, with all their modern advancements. They can’t do what some uneducated guy and his son and grandson did to make one of these cathedrals.
You know, or the carving on these Indian temples and all that. You can’t do that. They can’t make it nowadays. There’s no one who can do it. But everything’s advanced. Right? So that’s the point. It means they were very advanced in cultural things that signified actual human development.
And now it’s just, yes, technology is advanced, but is that a symptom of human?
That’s the whole point.
Does that make sense? Like you make a nice cathedral. It is so developed, so intricate and detailed. Do you ever have to worry that one day you’ll walk in and the cathedral will have come alive and will throw you out? No, but they’re always worried that all of their technical machines that they make, one day they’re going to take over and throw the people out. You know? No?
So you don’t have to worry about that in actual human sophistication.
You know?
1610. Taking shelter.
Oh, close. That was 1610. 1066. 1610.
You know 1066? Battle of Hastings. Hmm? Battle of Hastings. Yeah. The only time I think a foreign king defeated England on their soil. That was the thing. The Vikings did it before. Oh, that didn’t happen.
No, they just came in and settled.
The other guys in our history class, it was like the teacher came in, wrote on full the whole blackboard, 1066 on the blackboard, and then said, in this course, it was a three month course, if nothing else you remember except this date, he says, I’ll consider the class successful. So that’s the only thing I remember. That was the guy who taught. Nothing, but even today I still remember 1066.
Yeah, no, it worked.
As you come in at the beginning of the class, put it on the board. If nothing else in this course, you remember that Krishna is God and you’re his servant, then it’s supposed to be successful.
Yeah, that was right. We even try it every day. If nothing else, you remember this and you say, I remember you. Yeah. The big folks turn around. Big folks turn around. You are not this body.
New point. Yes, new point. But God is his body.
1610, taking shelter of insatiable lust, absorbed in the conceit of pride and false prestige. The demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent. Right, so Krishna’s saying it exactly as it is. We have all kinds of nice cultural terms and other social nuances to cover all this to make it not look like what it is.
You know what I’m saying? You know, they give it as a, they gave the example before, is that if you have, according to, you know, European rules of sitting, you’re having a formal dinner of all kinds of, you know, people in their families, right, the adults. How do you seat them? It’ll be man, woman, man, woman, man, woman, right? And opposite the table where the man is, that will be the woman, and opposite the woman, man. So, therefore, wherever you are, then you’ll be, means if you’re a man, then there’ll be a woman on each side of you and one directly in front of you. Right? And for the next person, it’s just like that. The woman, there’s two men and one man in front. Why? So that creates conversation and something like this and there’s a variety and, but, so we’ll say this is sophisticated, formal, this is the way you have to do it, but all it is, is just taking shelter of insatiable lust.
You know what I’m saying? All it is, is a way to create that. Because at the formal parties, people go, it’s normal that you break up, the husband goes one way, wife goes another. The wife is talking to all the men there and the man’s talking to all the ladies there. Right? But there’s a particular line, you cross that line, then that’s bad. But up to that point, then it’s just normal. Does that make sense? So we have this way of covering it. So Krishna’s just saying it as it actually is. We’ll say, no, no, no, but they’re making so many nice things. What’s an atomic bomb? Right? You know, what’s all the pollution? What’s all the things? They’re talking about all these things could destroy the planet. It won’t, but they’re talking that it will.
what’s, what, is that not what here? Unbeneficial, horrible works?
You know what I’m saying? Everything is about enjoyments, is that not insatiable lust?
The difficulty is it’s because of conditioning, you know, the culture is made that, no, no, it’s not that. It’s actually, you know, has some nice side, you know, it’s just like amongst thieves. They have a code, they don’t steal from each other. So, they’re, they’re nice thieves. You know, there’s some, some progression here. There’s, you know, there’s, does that make sense? Like that. So, that’s… In previous years, there was nothing such as all you can eat. All you can eat is from how you get it. I would think so.
Insatiable lust, yeah, all you can eat because there they would serve you how much you wouldn’t have to go get it yourself.
Accepting non-permanent things, okay, yeah, by accepting non-permanent things, the demons become more and more attracted to sense gratification.
Accepting non-permanent things, such demoniac people create their own god, create their own hymns and chant accordingly. Right?
The result is that become more and more attracted to two things, sex enjoyment and accumulation of material wealth. Right? That’s your point. They go together.
Such demoniac people are only attracted by wine, women, gambling and meat-eating.
Those are their asuchi, unclean habits. So here it means here it’s always sworn to unclean work. So in other words, this wine, women, gambling and meat-eating, this is their unclean work. They are always sworn to that. Right? Like there was one disciple, Bhaktivedanta Sarasvati Thakur, he was preaching to some, you know, some English aristocrat. And when he asked, you know, about, you know, what’s the, what are the rules in that, when he mentioned the four regular principles, he said, well, what’s left? That’s all we do. You know, there will be nothing left, you know.
Induced by pride and false prestige, they create some principles of religion which are not approved by the Vedic injunctions.
Although such demoniac people are most abominable in the world, by artificial means, the world creates a false honor for them. Although they are gliding towards hell, they consider themselves very much advanced. You know, instead of going in an old, you know, rusty bucket with a hole in it, now they go to hell in a very nice, modern, you know, some kind of zirconium, you know, ceramic mix of a bucket. Does that make sense?
So the principle is not that, OK, here, now we got something, yeah, we can get into this. But the point is, is that, no, it’s the point is that its absorption is in sense gratification, so it’ll keep going further and further and further. Because the point of the sinful activities is that you don’t care what are the results. You just want that enjoyment.
Does that make sense? So that’s the point. As soon as you follow the Vedic injunctions, the first thing that does is restrict all of these.
Right? They’re immediately restricted. Right? So then, then you have to deal in such a way that it will be progressive. It can’t be just going in that direction. It has to be going the other way. Is that the senses are controlled for higher purpose, for sacrifice. And the ultimate control in sacrifice is for the Lord.
So that’s what you’re trying to get to. So all I’m pointing out is that if you don’t take care of lust, this is the direction it goes. That’s why it’s not useful in devotional service. Like I mentioned before, all those qualities, that was useful for someone engaged in the process of upliftment. Right? They were all useful for the platform of liberation. Because then, if you’re out of the material world, then one can function on the transcendental platform. Right? So as a situation, you want to be situated spiritually.
Right? Like that. You may use material facility, but you, the soul, are situated spiritually.
Does that make sense? So that means then those divine qualities, those are useful. These demoniac qualities are not useful.
Right? So it’s not useful to not be able to tell the difference between matter and spirit. Therefore, unintelligent. Right? Unintelligent, unbeneficial. It’s not, no one ends up Krishna conscious. No one ends up liberated. No one ends up even actually having good facility.
Right? You say, no, but there’s so many wealthy people. How long are they wealthy?
Go ahead. Buy the magazine this week. Look at who’s the richest people in the world. Buy it next time it comes out. And see if the list is the same.
You know? Go back into the archives. See if it’s the same. No, it’s constantly changing. So you have, but how long do you have?
So that’s the point. It’s that it’s not, it’s, it’s an illusion to think that it’s like that. Right? And it’s false honor for them. They do something and then they get some benefit.
Sixteen, eleven, through twelve. They believe that to gratify the senses is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus, till the end of their life, their anxiety is immeasurable. Right? Because when there’s desire, there’s anxiety. No desire, no anxiety. Bound by a network of hundreds of thousands of desires and absorbed in lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification.
Right? So, there are hundreds of thousands of desires. Before, we talked about, you know, a few. But it’s actually a network of hundreds of thousands. They’re all connected to each other. Otherwise, why is it the whole planet works together so nicely on this demonic platform unless all those desires have some connection to each other? Right? So therefore, they can create this so-called, you know, modern civilization.
Though, one individual has technically nothing to do with the guy next door. You can live next to your neighbor and never know who they are. Right? But, there’s some connection because of this network.
For sense gratification, the demons can perform all kinds of sensual activities.
The demoniac person who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. Because you see, as generally speaking, those who have faith are a little less, more restricted in how they’ll apply their sense gratification.
Right? So, the extreme here in the demoniac is no faith in God or the Supersoul. They don’t follow the Vedic injunctions. So that gets the worse. Right? But then, if you add something, some faith in God or something, the Supersoul or in the scriptures or in the Vedic literature, then there’s some restriction that slows the process down a bit. Right? The human element stays a little bit.
The person who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there’s a witness sitting within his heart. Right? He’s doing all nonsense. There’s somebody sitting there and watching. You know? Does that make sense? Very careful. No one’s around. You know, like that. There’s someone sitting right in your heart watching.
The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As stated in the Upanishads, there are two birds sitting in one tree. One is acting and enjoying or suffering. One is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches. And the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture nor has he any faith. Therefore, he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment regardless of the consequences.
Now, here’s what he’s saying. Sense enjoyment, that means it’s not according to the Vedic literature. Right? And for us, means not for Krishna.
So, just because one is doing something that is actually sense enjoyment, but according to one’s conditioned culture, you don’t call that sense enjoyment. It doesn’t mean it is. It isn’t.
You know what I’m saying?
Does that make sense? It means, maybe we don’t have faith in certain Vedic injunctions. We say, we chant, we don’t care about that. So, what are you doing instead?
You know, what is it for? What authority are you basing your activity on? If it’s not on the Shastra, then what is it? Because generally, the point where they say, we chant, we don’t care about the rules, is they’re not talking about chanting.
They’re talking about something else. But yes, you chant, but then, what about when you’re not chanting? What’s the authority there? So, it’s not Shastra. So, it’s our own mind. So, that means, therefore, if it’s connected to Krishna, fine. It’s just a rougher situation, a rougher offering, but it’s connected to Krishna. Great. You know, that’s what we were saying this morning. You know, if there’s yesterday, saying about that someone may be very fixed in, you know, doing what Prabhupada says, but that’s all they do, but there may be some whimsicalness in there, but it all is done in that way. So, some of it’s, you know, good quality, some of it’s not good quality, but it’s ultimately connected. But then you have someone who it’s not connected.
Then what is it? So, why wouldn’t it be sense gratification? Because to do anything, you’re engaging the senses. If it’s not, the purpose is for Krishna, then it’s sense gratification. Purpose is for Krishna, it’s not sense gratification.
You understand? So, why are we going to such length to point this out? Because otherwise, these are verses we’ve read so many times, and it’s always these disgusting, dirty, filthy, whatever we would consider, you know, nasty demons, you know, like Hilaronasa, you know, or something like that. You know, so, that way, you know, that’s the ultimate demon, right? So, you know, someone else it’ll be, you know, the corporate guy. Someone else it’ll be, you know, the grandmother. Someone else, it’s just someone else, and it just keeps going around. Does that make sense? But the idea is that, no, we’re talking about the demoniac nature. Otherwise, why does he need to define demons? Because these elements are stuff that we may be distracted by.
We act in a, because sinful here means not for Krishna.
You know, and specifically here means not according to Shastra. So how much of a devotee’s life is not according to Shastra?
If it was according to Shastra, everyone would be on Harinam, right?
No?
Well, that’s it. I was talking about the devotee Shastra. Who’s in charge of the Harinam program.
So, we’re acting not according to Shastra.
Make sense? So, you have these things, but then you have the subtle elements. These are the elements the devotee has to look at. Here are the extreme examples. But still, the subtle aspect is still there. You know, we’re doing something that we realize Krishna’s in the heart singing. You know, like that. So that’s there. What do you call it?
Unclean habits. False pride and prestige.
Doing things that aren’t approved by Vedic injunctions.
We make up our own religious elements very easy. When it comes to deity worship, things that devotees have made up, those are what stick and are really hard to get rid of. The ones that the Shastra says to do, those are the harder ones to establish. Non-permanent things.
Right? We’re all, you know, worried about non-permanent things.
So, all these different aspects. Devotees get distracted by them.
Right? Modern gizmos and gadgets and everything like that we’ll consider things are better.
Like that.
You know, I just mean that with all the verses it’s very important to develop some introspection. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. To just see that these things we’re not being distracted by. Right? Like that. Even if it’s a subtle point. The point is that we’re not saying that the devotees are, you know, demoniac. No, but anarta means is something that is left of the demoniac quality. But it ultimately is anarta can also be a divine quality if it’s not connected to the Lord. Right? So, that’s 1130.
Okay. We’re starting up. Okay. 1613 through 16. The demoniac person thinks this is such a classic, this one. So much wealth do I have today and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now and it will increase in the future more and more. He is my enemy and I have killed him and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the Lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices. I shall give some charity and thus I shall rejoice. In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance, thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions. They become too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and fall down into hell. But this hell is archaic, isn’t it? It cares about others but has its own members and charity and sacrifices.
No, it said some charity. It didn’t say charity. It said I shall give some charity.
No, but as you get up there, it means you come and maybe not. But when you get up there, it means your poor sections and your very rich sections, they’ll consider charity. You know, it’s kind of the average ones in the middle. Then if it comes up and you mention it to them, they’re quite open to it. But it’s not something that they always think about. But generally, the poorer, the richer, they always think about it somehow or another.
But some charity.
The one doesn’t have much, so he can only give some charity. The one has a lot, he wouldn’t want to give too much or he won’t have a lot.
Demons don’t believe in the law of karma. So it’s not from the purport, but all these different points. He believes in his own strength and he does not know that whatever he is gaining is due to his past good deeds. He thinks it’s due to my work now. No, it’s from your past work. For the bad work they’re doing now, then he’s going to end up in hell.
Of course he can say, I’m thrown off a taller mountain than you’re thrown off.
My tree has more thorns on it than your tree that they’re dragging you up and down. So you can feel it.
He is given an opportunity to accumulate such things, but he has no conception of past causes. He simply thinks that all his massive wealth is due to his own endeavor. No, the endeavor is for the future and what he is getting is from the past.
A demonic person believes in the strength of his personal work, not in the law of karma. So man can go beyond fate.
Somehow at the end of the story they always find out, no, it works according to how fate says it’s going to work.
According to the law of karma, man takes his birth in a high family or becomes rich or very well educated or very beautiful because of good work in the past. The demonic think all these things are accidental and due to the strength of one’s personal ability. Because there are people who go through, even they take the medicines, they go to the spa, they have the operations, but they don’t become more beautiful. Because if that was the way it was, everybody would already be beautiful. People have been at this for a long time. Right? You know what I’m saying? So, so, yeah. But it doesn’t, it doesn’t. It’s not. It’s just, it’s our, it means they’re able to take advantage of it but still it’s their karma.
They do not sense any arrangement behind all the varieties of people, beauty and education. Because as it is, what philosophy can explain it? If you don’t accept karma, how can you explain that someone’s born in a rich family or poor, someone’s educated? Not. Someone’s beautiful? Not. Wealthy? Not. There’s no explanation.
So if it’s just chance, then, then, then if it’s just chance, then since it’s chance, what’s the big deal? You know, why should you say it’s better? Why should you think I can endeavor for, for wealth and get it when it’s just chance? Right? Because if it’s by endeavor, that means the person’s born in a wealthy family because of endeavor. But if it’s just chance, that means you could go out and try to do business. And it may work and it may not. You know, so you take a cross-section of the population. How many are wealthy? Right? If it’s one or two percent, then that means you have a two percent chance of getting wealthy from making an economic endeavor.
Right? Because it’s just chance anyway. So even if you didn’t do it, it would still happen because it’s not that the baby did some work and you did some investment beforehand. Or probably he’s in the womb. He’s there, and we need a billing on the phone, on the desk here and all that. You know? Just thinking about it. Oh, you can hear some noise. You know, the doctor’s sitting there and goes, he’s making a phone call.
He’s talking to his lawyer. He’s got a lawyer? I don’t got a lawyer.
You know, so, like that. No, it’s that he hasn’t done anything. He’s just born in this family.
So, the point is that it’s from previous work. So, we can see it’s by work that it happens because it’s not by chance.
You know?
Demoniacs, demons, demons are inimical to one another.
Anyone who comes into competition with such a demoniac man is his enemy. Right? Because you’re either for him, means you’re supporting his endeavor or you’re not, so you’re his enemy.
There are many demoniac people and each is enemy to the others. This enmity becomes more and more deep between persons, then between families, then between societies, and at last between nations. Therefore, there is constant strife, war, and enmity all over the world.
You know? It just goes because each one is anyone who gets in your way, so the same principle just gets bigger and bigger. Because it doesn’t have to happen much. It’s just little things are going on constantly with you and then it’s a little bit more. Then it’s something in your family against the next family and then the community being like this. Because otherwise it’s not much. You know what I’m saying? So you have all these nations there and then one guy gets shot in Serbia and then the whole starts a war, a world war like that. So it’s just it was one thing. It wasn’t like there was constantly going on or like that and they just said this is not, we can’t handle this anymore.
Demons are gliding towards hell.
Demons think that they will manufacture their own process of yajna and prepare some machine by which they will be able to reach any higher planet. So what they consider is sacrifice. They make up their own idea of what it should be. Not that it’s according to what it should be. It’s just like you give it in charity. The Vedas mention that when you give in charity make sure that the medium that you give in charity is big enough that everybody can see it.
Like that. Especially if the thing itself is worthless.
Say the cow is big enough that everybody can see but the cow has value. But a six foot check doesn’t have any value in itself. It’s simply a medium that you can get some value from. More pieces of paper. And all those pieces of paper may not even add up to how big the piece of paper was that got you those pieces.
The best example of such a demoniac man was Ravana. He offered a program to the people by which he would prepare a staircase so that anyone could reach the heavenly planets without performing sacrifices such as are prescribed in the Vedas. So the what do you call it? The Babylonian Tower. Yeah. What’s it called? Babylonian Tower. Babylonian Tower. No, I’m not sure it’s Babylonian. Babel. Tower of Babel. Yeah. Because then while they were building it then God made them speak all different languages so they couldn’t understand each other so they couldn’t communicate. Like that. I mean we got a guy here who’s deaf and dumb but he does all our work. So you can’t communicate. You know, if you want the hammer you…
So here, so Ravana was the one who built the was building the staircase.
Similarly in the present age such demoniac men are striving to reach the higher planetary systems by mechanical arrangements. These are examples of bewilderment. The result is that without their knowledge they are gliding towards hell. So gliding, you know, it’s very pleasant. It’s like smooth. It’s not a rough ride to hell. You know, it’s not, you know. Yeah, there’s no song like that or anything. It’s a rough ride to hell. No, it’s gliding, you know. Like that.
Here the Sanskrit word moha-jala is very significant. Jala means net. Like fish caught in a net. They have no way to come out. Because the desires that we said before, the network of desires, hundreds of thousands of interconnected desires, that creates a net that just keeps them controlled in the material sphere. Right? So that’s why devotees reduce that. It doesn’t mean that what they reduce it down to aren’t the, you know, the root, the root, you know, demoniac qualities. But that’s the point is that there’s not hundreds of thousands of them. Right? There’s just a few. So that means the net is, so that’s, without the net you can’t cross it.
So through devotional service they can, they can get out of this. But because those root ones are there, one thinks that nothing, nothing is developed, nothing is advanced. No, it’s advanced, it’s developed.
We can see that sometimes within devotees that their desires are being abused by the public. Yes, yes, yes. But those, let’s say, few, your hundreds, all of you, they became stronger maybe because there is absence of other desires so they seem stronger. No, no, it’s not necessarily that it’s become stronger, it was always that strong but because there’s so many other desires you can’t actually see how strong it is.
You know what I’m saying? Let’s say, let’s say there is a, there’s 50 kids in your house or 100 kids in your house. Does any one kid stand out? No, but if we get rid of all the kids and there’s only two or three then they stand out more. You know, if there’s only one kid then they get all the attention. You know what I’m saying? So, that’s the point. If there’s 100 desires, kids there, how much can you, attention can you give to each one? So that’s why they’re so entangled because, you know, this one’s there so that one’s there and the next one, this one, so they’re not even focused completely on that. So even, even we’re saying is on the demoniac that they’re, they’re focused on something. How much do they actually get involved in that? You know what I’m saying? So, so that’s, that’s the problem is that they don’t, so the devotees they reduce this whole network but what few are left, those are the roots of all, all those broad ranks. So, they’ll appear to be stronger but actually they’re not necessarily. It’s just a matter of one gets that taste between spiritual and material then one is able to take. So that’s why it’s said to intelligence because the mind has that taste for material endeavor. so the idea is that, that it’s, it’s being, it’s being, how do you say?
Hmm? Yeah, well, one has to use one has to use that process of intelligence because without it then one won’t be able to tell because for the mind it only accepts and rejects. So something is accepted then it’s considered mind, good. So the intelligence has to point out how it’s not good but will happen if you follow it and all the reactions.
So then that means time. One is making that endeavor and then with time knowledge and detachment come. So then one can start to deal with the less and less.
So all, so you can say that there’s a stage where you’ve removed so much of the desire only a few are left then there’s a stage where those few desires then they start to leave us. You know what I’m saying? Because the devotees, they’re devotees that means they’re not implicated in so much. Right? There’s a little stuff. They will need to get a little money and they may have old friends or family or some hobbies or you know some attachment to a particular kind of work. That’s about it. You know? Like that. No? It’s not like there’s a wide range of things that the devotees are attached to. You know what I’m saying? Generally, you know, meat eating’s not a big thing for devotees. Right? You know, gambling generally also is not. It’s just illicit sex and intoxication.
That’s the only one. That’s the only one that’s left. You know what I’m saying? It’s like that. What do you call it? We used to have the joke in L .A., you know, you know, following the three regulative principles. No meat, no fish, no eggs.
Like that.
Yeah. So, so like that. Then, then it’s reduced down and so then, therefore, then it’s just a few things. But they’re, they’re the key essential points. You know?
You know, so, prestige, wealth, social position, you know, how do you say? Those things, yeah, I mentioned wealth, right?
No, this time it didn’t. Wealth, women, you know, these are the, these are the ones that basically are standing out, you know, some entertainment, right? You know, and then that’s it. Is there anything else that the devotees are distracted by? Oh, knowledge.
And who’s doing that? Who’s on the bridge?
Is it labor or one of the boys?
He’s hitting the tree.
Those, those, those, those bushes. I don’t know what he’s trying to do.
Is it Gunga?
Oh, okay, no, he’s just, he’s just stupid.
Less intelligent.
Less intelligent means your intelligence is not properly used. Stupid means there’s no intelligence.
Okay. 16th, 17th. So, is that clear? Means devotees have these, they’re not good, they’re anarchists, but they’re not in the same category that is talked about here because their entanglement is, is different. But it’s not that these aren’t going to get in the way of devotional service. But the point is devotional service, if they stick to it, is more powerful. So then with time, as Krishna says, they will become rightly situated. Right? But because they’re making that in depth since their endeavor, even though those qualities are there, they’re still considered saintly.
Yes? I said whenever one observes these, apologize is one thing, but using your intelligence to figure out how to not let it happen again, that would be better. But, yeah, but after, when…
Yeah, but then you have to make the endeavor to try to not be overwhelmed by it. You know, so if that means changing the situation or using intelligence or whatever it takes. But the main point is, is how, how can that be connected to the Lord?
You know, either in its positive that it’s used itself or in its negative that, you know, it’s not my duty so I don’t get involved in that. So in either way it’s connected.
Yeah?
Kinda?
I was just looking at the list. I don’t have the paper, but I was looking at the list.
The harshness is conceit. It’s humility.
You know what I’m saying? The divine qualities, those are useful for liberation.
They’re, they’re inverse.
Right? Because lust and envy are the basis. Right? So envy is never useful. Right? But the point is, is that, that’s an adjustment of identity. Thinking, I’m the controller rather than Krishna.
And lust is that the result is for me and love means the result’s for Krishna.
Right? So you simply have to adjust that I’m servant therefore I’m supposed to be doing this to please Krishna.
Yes.
Yes. Yes, gradually, gradually. It means, if you’re always thinking of how to correct it in connection with the Lord, then it will, it will slowly, slowly, you know. In other words, by thinking about it you can adjust it immediately. Then it’s not very deep. It takes more time. It’s deeper. But it doesn’t mean, oh, it’s not me or I can’t do it. No, you can always do it because it’s not, it’s not us to be conditioned.
Right? That’s not our nature. Our nature is…
But still, by chanting one makes advancement so the consciousness can be advanced even in the qualities. Yeah, consciousness advances because that’s our point is by changing the consciousness we’ll change the qualities.
But it’s not that we’re going to change the qualities without changing the consciousness. Right? That takes a serious amount of piety to be able to do. You know, someone may have piety in one area can adjust those few things and someone else in another area. But it’s not all encompassing. It’s the only devotional service that will make it that all these things you know what I’m saying.
Some days ago you mentioned would it be more effective to just…
That’s where you start.
Yeah. Krishna… Yeah. You can work out how Krishna’s…
Then it’s very easy to work out what elements are not useful for doing it for Krishna. You know what I’m saying? Because the point is is body, mind and words are engaged in Krishna’s service. So what’s not engaged in Krishna’s service, first you have to understand what is engaged.
And so if that’s hard to see if you can see, okay, these things are not engagement then you start with that. You know, but the point is it’s what’s useful for Krishna. Either it makes it work nicely for Krishna or it’s obvious it doesn’t make it work nicely for Krishna. So Krishna’s still the center of it.
We’ve finished.
Okay, he’s saying a similar thing. Okay. So this gives more detail of that. So then we’ll continue that tomorrow about their own made-up religions.
Om Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna
