Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #73

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #73

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Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Om Shanti Shanti Shanti Om Jaya Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita Garadhara Siva Sarigaura Bhakta Vrinda Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Bottom of 28.

Just want to go through this again. The Lord answers in verse 21, There are three gates leading to hell, lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul. control. All these demoniac qualities are rooted in lust. Unsatiated lust brings forth anger, which is very contaminating and difficult to control. If lust is temporarily satisfied, instead of becoming peaceful, one becomes greedy.” Right? It means if you get some result, then you become greedy for more. You don’t get any result, then you become frustrated, become angry. So in either way, it’s not good. Yes? And anger, does that also arise from fear? Anger, yeah, I mean… I’m trying to place the fear element in this.

Anger is to do with the identity. I mean, excuse me, fear is to do with the identity. I mean, all of them are, because lust means you think you’re the controller and enjoyer. When that doesn’t go well for you, you become angry. That you want to be the controller and enjoyer and not be a servant, then that’s fear. So it all comes back to lust. That’s why it says lust is the root of all the bad qualities.

Greed gives rise to moha. So if things are going well, then greed gives rise to moha, or illusion. And illusion leads to mada, intoxication of pride.

Thus, Matsarja, envy is able to fully manifest. When you’re proud, then you can be envious very nicely. Right? It’s hard to be envious if, you know, you don’t have confidence. Right? Because, you know, envy is more of a drive, so there must be some confidence. So if there’s no confidence, you know, then it won’t manifest so easily. That’s why you see is that your general mass of people, though things aren’t going so well for them, are generally not envious. The ones that are envious are the ones that are going a little bit well for them. Right? If you look at a revolution, how is a revolution happening? A common person is not started by the mass of people. The mass of people have always been there. But someone who has a little bit better situation, right, they’re the one that starts it. Why? Because they have some good facility. So they become greedy. That greed goes to illusion. Illusion goes to the madness. So then, in that state, then they can become very envious. And because they’re a little bit better situated, they have a little bit more, you know, idea of the bigger picture, then they can organize a revolution.

Right? You know, and they just tell the people that if you revolt, you’ll be happy. You know, they don’t know. And they revolt, and they’re still not happy. Right?

Someone says yes. How can we understand that ultimately we’re all here due to being envious of Krishna? We’re all here due to being envious. Here it says it’s able to fully manifest. Right? Envy just means that why he’s enjoying, why not me? Right? Jealousy means, you know, he’s enjoying, I should also enjoy like that.

You know? You understand? But envy means, you know, why he’s enjoying, I should be the one enjoying.

Does that make sense? So envious of Krishna’s position as the enjoyer.

So we want to be in that position.

Right? So this is, that means, the demoniac qualities are rooted in this. But basically this process can happen before one is manifesting specifically demoniac qualities. Right? When we’re talking about the material world, divine qualities, demoniac qualities, if they’re not connected to Krishna, they’re all demoniac, technically. There’s no, unless it’s connected to Krishna, no one actually has any good qualities. Right? Let us say I give you a million dollars, and five minutes later I’ll take it away. So, you know, and that’s known. So now is everyone going to say, wow, hey, he’s rich and Forbes magazine’s going to come and do an interview and all that? No. So the quality is there, but it’s going to go away. So will we actually consider they have the quality? No. That’s the point. So no one has any good qualities because they won’t remain unless they’re connected to the Lord. Right? So in the material world, even the divine qualities, if they’re not connected to Krishna, are still not that important. Right? Okay, it’s a nicer material situation. Right? You know, you’re in the, you know, higher class prison. Right? They have prisons like that. You know, they’re not hardened criminals. You know, they’ve, how you say, in their business or something, they’ve done something they shouldn’t and all that. So they’re generally, you know, professionals, educated and all that. So they have these prisons that are meant for them. Right? So it’s a prison. They’re there, but it’s much, you know, a little bit nicer. It’s not so rough. Huh? White collar prisons. Okay. Right? So then you have that kind of a thing. So all it is, is the divine qualities are the white collar prison, you know, or like Prabhupada says, the gold chain, you know, and the demoniac qualities is the iron chain. But in any case, you’re bound. Does this make sense? Right? So it starts with this lust, because lust is the transformation of the natural love for Krishna. Right? That’s been transformed. So starting at that, then you’re looking at, okay, if that is not controlled, it will go into the demoniac.

If it’s controlled, then you can keep it within the divine.

Does that make sense? In other words, there’s a good situation, means being in the spiritual world. There’s a bad situation, being in the material world. So within the material world, then there’s a good situation, you know, which is the divine qualities, and there’s a bad situation, the demoniac qualities. But one has to remember the context. It’s still bad.

Does that make sense? But the good is, is that you’re connected to Krishna, then you get the results of being situated in the good. But it’s not connected to Krishna. It’s just nice or bad.

You know, like that.

The next verse describes the auspicious results of subduing the demoniac qualities. The man who has escaped these three gates of hell, a son of Kunti, performs acts, acts conducive to self-realization, and thus gradually attains the supreme destination.

Right? So you escape these, which means this is the lower end of, you know, improperly applied karma. Then it’s conducive to self-realization, right? The Brahman platform. And one comes, attains the supreme destination, the devotional platform.

In the last two verses, the Lord summarizes the chapter. He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection nor happiness, nor the supreme destination. Right? So you don’t even, you don’t, you aren’t going to get liberated. You don’t even enjoy materially, and you don’t go back to Godhead. So what’s the use? Right? Then there’s also, he discards scriptural injunctions. Now there’s, there’s the obvious point. He just doesn’t follow the rules and regulations that are given there. Right? The other point, very subtle in one’s own practices, is that one is following the scriptural injunctions, but the point is, is what are the injunctions for? Right? In other words, you follow an instruction, there’s a purpose to it. So if you just follow the instruction, don’t know the purpose, or don’t try to obtain the purpose, it’s not exactly following.

You understand? So those who follow the rules and regulations, not to develop their Krishna consciousness, but the rules and regulations stand on their own, as their own benefit, then that isn’t actually following the rules. Right? So that’s why the comments will be made about following all the different rules, but missing the point. That’s Niyamagraha. Right? So whimsically, just discarding the rules, that’s Niyamagraha, means that you just give them up because you don’t know what they’re for. Or even if you know what they’re for, you’re not interested because of our independence, we have a better idea. Right? You know, God has his, we have ours. Right? And so, naturally.

Yes?

Yes.

But the point is, it has to be progressive.

Means if you have an understanding, means if you’re following, you’re following the rules and regulations, because you know it’s proper, you should be doing this, your duty, that’s still progressive. It will purify. If one understands why one’s doing it, that’ll be better, because it’ll purify quicker. You know what you’re doing. But one who realizes what they’re for, means that the connection is there to the Lord, that’s the best, that’s the Vaishnava. So the purpose of the rules is actually to bring one to the Vaishnava platform. So if one is on a lower platform, that’s fine as long as it’s progressive, but when you start becoming proud that I am functioning at this platform, and that itself is perfection, or that itself is what makes it good, that’s when there’s a problem. That’s when you bring in the element, what we call Smarta.

It’s not, Smartas are well-placed, they’re following the scriptures, they’re doing everything properly, they’re clean, they’re septic, you know, so you can’t criticize that element of them. What we criticize of the Smartas is that they think just by following the rule, I have attained, I have obtained what I want. Devotees make this mistake, they think Smarta means that you follow rules. No, Smarta means that you think by following the rule, that itself will obtain the result, as opposed to, I perform the rule to please Krishna, and Krishna gives the result. That’s the difference. So then devotees think, oh, we don’t want to be Smartas, so we don’t follow the rules. But then according to what Krishna says, you discard the rules, then you put yourself in the demoniac qualities, because that’s one of the main symptoms of the demoniac, is he doesn’t follow the rules, he’s whimsical, while the divine, they follow the rules.

Because there’s always a process, anything you want to do, there is a process.

Yes? Questioner 1 Does this also correspond or correlate with the four sections of each Veda, the brahmanas, the samhita, the brahmanas, what is it, the samhita, brahmanas, aranyaka and then upanishads? Answer In what way are you correlating?

But you can also just memorize the philosophy.

Do you know what I’m saying? So, and also in memorization of the verses, you can be doing that because you understand how they’ll be applied.

Does that make sense? So it’s, the, so you have, what is, what is the purpose of the process to become self-realized, which can be done at any point, using any part of the Veda.

Then, if people, since people generally don’t do that, then you have a natural external form that point, basically puts you in that position that you should do that. But even then you still might not. Right?

Sannyas means, as we’ll see in the 18th chapter, is when the work that you perform, the result has already been given away before you’ve done it. Renunciation means after you’ve done it, then you give it away. So the principle of sannyas could be practiced by anyone in any ashram or any varna.

Right? So they could be sannyasis. But if one doesn’t do that, which is what the sastras are recommending, then at least in the fourth stage of ashram, when you, you know, take sannyas, that should be your principle.

You understand? So it has like a double, a double, means you can, you can become perfect at any stage.

Means, what is it? Satyakama Jabbala, he became self-realized by herding his guru’s cows. He hadn’t even heard any classes yet. He hadn’t studied the Veda. He was just given the cows, take them out in the field. There’s a, there’s 600 cows. When there’s a thousand cows, then you come back. When he came back, he was self-realized.

Because the point is, is if we say Krishna is in everything and Krishna is everything, we mean it. So by studying even the minutest little thing, you can find Krishna. And if that can be, you know, that takes up your, your, your meditation, your, you know, your full consciousness, you’re self-realized.

So the process is actually extremely simple. But the problem is, is we’re also extremely attached to our own concepts.

Therefore, that slows the process down.

Yes?

What’s the difference between necessaries and lust?

Necessary?

Need and lust. On the material platform, neither. They’re the same.

The point is, is what do you actually need?

You actually need that Lamborghini.

But in your mind, you do have, need it. That’s why you work so hard and you get it.

Right? And then the guy around the corner who steals cars, he really needs to have it also. Therefore, he steals it.

Right?

Yes, sir? So the point is, is the ultimate need is to please Krishna. That’s the natural need of the living entity. But that becomes perverted where we need to please ourselves. So that’s called lust. If you’re pleasing Krishna, that’s called devotion. You’re pleasing yourself, that’s called lust.

It means in the material world, we try to put some fineness on, you know, what’s here. You take a pile of garbage and, you know, put a few ribbons on it or, you know, like that or something, you know, and try to, you know, make it nice, nice garbage. Right? But it’s actually still garbage. So it’s for yourself, it’s lust, it’s for Krishna. It’s not that simple.

One should therefore understand what is duty and what is not duty by the regulations of the scriptures. So what you’re supposed to do, what you’re not supposed to do, that the scriptures define, and then that is given to us by the acaryas. So the acaryas from the scriptures pick what are the most essential elements that one must follow to be efficient in your process.

Knowing such rules and regulations, one should act so that he may gradually be elevated. Right? So step by step, one just moves forward. Right? If it doesn’t happen overnight, don’t worry about it, you know, because in our perception, overnight, you know, seems like a long time. But long time is how long we’ve been in the material world. That’s a long time. Right? So spending this lifetime getting out of here, that’s not a long time. I remember when I joined our temple, there was a concept that in three years, you’d be the pure, pure devotee, right? Like that. Others’ temples, like they had five years, I think there was even a temple that was one year, you know, ideas like that. So gradually, but it can be done. I mean, you know, what do you call it? What’s it? What’s the king? In a moment, he became, huh? No. Another one. Katvanga. Right? Yeah. In a moment, he became so. So it’s possible.

In his purport to verse 23, Śrīla Prabhupāda shows that disobeying śāstra means acting in lust, anger, and greed. As described before, the śāstra vidhi, or the directions of śāstra, is given to the different castes and orders of human society. Everyone is expected to follow these rules and regulations. If one does not follow them and acts whimsically according to his lust, greed, and desire, then he will never be perfect in his life. In other words, a man may theoretically know all these things, but if he does not apply them in his own life, then he is to be known as the lowest of mankind. Right? This is a very subtle point.

Very important to note, because it’s very… And Prabhupāda doesn’t overemphasize this. Viśvanātha does. Makes it very blunt. Baladeva… Prabhupāda is following Baladeva’s line here, where it’s being softened.

In other words, a man may theoretically know all these things, what you should do and not do, but if he does not apply them in his own life, then he is to be known as the lowest of mankind. So where does that place someone who knows the rules and regulations, and says, Oh, we’re practical. We don’t care for this. We just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, I’m just being practical, Prabhu. Oh, you know, don’t be fanatic. That mentality is lowest of mankind. That’s why it’s not overemphasized, because those who see things externally, they will start calling, you know, all the devotees demons.

You understand? So it’s a very fine point that has to be dealt with very finely. Because we’re in 16th chapter here. This is not second chapter.

You know what I’m saying? At the same time, if you follow the rule and think just because you’re following, then you’re better situated and all that. So that’s perfect. That’s also Niyamāgara, because it missed the point. The point is, it’s supposed to please Kṛṣṇa.

So it’s a very, very fine point, because here we’re dealing here is how to define the divine and demoniac quality. Because as I said before, in Kali-yuga, the divine and demoniac live in the same body. It’s not like previous ages, where divine and demoniac were very obvious. You know, like that, you know, you had, you know, eight big monster teeth like this, and, you know, copper red hair like that, and possibly chicken feet. Then you know you’re a demon, right? You know, it’s pretty straightforward. In fact, they don’t even mind it, right? Nowadays, you call someone a demon, they get upset, right? But Prahlāda Mahārāja, out of respect for his father, he’s saying, oh, greatest of the asuras. And he’s thinking, yes.

Yeah, asurya-vārga, you know, like that. So, you know, they knew who they were.

So one knows these things and doesn’t apply them. So the devotee is trying to apply just because he’s not successful. That’s not, that’s not the defect. The defect is not trying.

Right? You try, you’re not successful. That just means you need practice. That’s why it’s called sadhana-bhakti. Sadhana-bhakti means you’re going to try, you’re going to fail. You keep at it. So the failure is not the problem. The problem is you’re not trying. Like here, it doesn’t say, if he, if he knows all these things, but he can’t get them to work right in his life, though he’s trying, you know, then he’s lowest. No, he does not apply them. That’s all. The definitions are very clear, very simple. It’s connected to Kṛṣṇa. It’s good. It’s not connected to Kṛṣṇa. It’s bad. It doesn’t matter how good it is in the material world. It’s still bad because, as we’ve said before, the demons get together and pat each other on the back and say, you’re a great guy. Right? They give awards. They do all these different things. But that doesn’t make them good. Good means connected to the Lord. Not good, not connected to the Lord. Simple.

Śrīla Prabhupāda summarizes Chapter 16 as follows.

So, in other words, one’s not going to follow because of lust, anger and greed.

Right? These bad qualities, these are the root. That will turn into something else. So, nāradhāma, the lowest of mankind, doesn’t mean some idiot. Because nāradhāma means a mūḍha is an idiot.

Right? But someone who’s educated and doesn’t apply that education, that’s nāradhāma.

That’s the difference.

Someone has to be very, very careful. You know, especially when you’re with intelligent people, it has to be explained nicely. Otherwise, you may turn them into nāradhāmas. If you do that, you’re not going to get much credit.

So, if you’re into real simple, straightforward, no -frills philosophy, keep to those people who are not looking for anything more than that. The people who really want answers, who are intelligent, you can’t give answers, better you stay away from them.

Śrīla Prabhupāda summarizes chapter 16 as follows. In human society, aversion to the principles of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the cause of all fall-downs.

So, it’s very much, you have to follow the process. Because before we’re talking about the principles of connecting them, how you’re going, means you’re going to take activities, connect that. You’re going to take intelligence, you’re going to take a mind and connect that.

Then, more important than you’re taking those and connect it, you’re trying to please the Lord. And then you’re going to please through some medium. You have to express that need to please the Lord. So, you’re going to do that through body, mind, and words. Connect the body, that’s karma yoga. Connect the intelligence, and that’s jñāna yoga. Take the mind, that’s jñāna yoga. Right? But, because devotion is the prime thing, therefore it’s called pure devotion. Right? Instead of mixed. Right? Depends which side you start from. It makes a difference.

Then, in here, then, how you situate yourself in pure devotion, right? You see yourself separate from the material energy. You see yourself as the soul. You see yourself as servant of the Lord. He’s the Supreme. Right? This way you avoid the modes. How do you know what the modes are? So, you know if you’re avoiding them. So, the modes are explained. Right? They’re enlightening, they’re binding, and they just make, you know, you get stupid. Right? And we see as soon as illusion comes in, that’s when envy comes up. So, that’s, it gets bad.

Yes? You said you connect more to this karma than jñāna yoga.

Bhakti-yoga means it’s the devotion.

Yes, but it’s karma yoga. What you see in here is, it’s all devotional service, but you have to see the context. Right? We were going through, in the first six chapters, the connection of these things, because your inspiration is your interest in engaging the body in certain activities, but you’re willing to do that connected to Krishna. You’re interested in connecting the intelligence, I mean engaging the intelligence, but you’re willing to connect it to Krishna. So, there’s a difference between that and you want to please Krishna. And so, therefore, you engage your mind or your body.

Right? There’s a difference in the approach.

Does that make sense?

Okay. Well, let us say, I want to fry some potatoes. Okay? Now, I put the ghee in the pot, because it’s potatoes and ghee, right? Makes fried potatoes. So, now, if I put the potatoes, the ghee in the pot, heat it up, then put the potatoes, I’ll get fried potatoes. Okay? What happens if I put the potatoes in the pot, no ghee, and then afterwards I put the ghee? Do I get fried potatoes?

No, but it was those two things.

So, if you have it one way, it means one thing. You put it the other way, it’s something else.

So, if you start with your body that you like to engage in certain activities, then you connect that to Krishna, that’s called karma yoga. But if you start with you want to please Krishna, you want to express that. So, therefore, you engage the body in that activity, since your body is good at doing that activity, so you’re going to do that.

Does that make sense?

Does it make sense to everybody else?

Okay.

Okay. In human society, aversion to the principles of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the cause of all fall-downs. That is the greatest offense of human life.

Therefore, maya, the material energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is always giving us trouble in the shape of the threefold miseries. This material energy is consistent of the three modes of material nature. One has to raise himself at least to the mode of goodness before the path to understanding the Supreme Lord can be opened. Without raising oneself to the standard of the mode of goodness, one remains in ignorance and passion, which are the cause of demoniac life. Those in the mode of passion and ignorance deride the scriptures, deride the holy men, and deride the proper understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They disobey the instructions of the spiritual master, and they do not care for the regulations of the scriptures. Right? So Prabhupada’s put it in the context of the devotees. We don’t need to put it in the context. Why do we need to study this in context of the karmis? Right? No. We’re trying to root out the demoniac qualities in ourself. In spite of hearing the glories of devotional service, they are not attracted. Thus they manufacture their own way of elevation. See, it’s one is the difference between, okay, I accept this and I’m fully committed to this and following the instructions, but I don’t have a taste. That’s one thing. That just means you keep practicing. It’s like you have the disease, you take the medicine, it’ll go away. That’s one thing. The other is you don’t have the taste, you manufacture your own process. That’s wrong.

Right?

These are some of the defects of human society which lead to the demoniac status of life. If, however, one is able to be guided by a proper and bona fide spiritual master who can lead one to the path of elevation, to the higher stage, then one’s life becomes successful. Right? So one wants to avoid these qualities. Otherwise, how are you going to… The point is, if you’re seeing it according to the field and the knower of the field, then one’s not bound by these qualities because one’s beyond it. But the point is, is one has to be aware of where you are situated because then you may get carried away by it. One’s careful, then one can apply this knowledge. One’s not careful, one will be distracted and forget about this knowledge. So therefore, it’s very important.

Chapter 17, yes. Is it correct that in the 16th chapter, Krishna describes the proper mentality in which the knowledge which was explained in previous, last six chapters should be applied? Basically. You know, which is favorable and what’s not. Mode of goodness is elevating, so it’s the minimum. Pure goodness is the standard, but goodness will work. You know what I’m saying? And so, passionate ignorance wants, so you have to be able to identify them. Otherwise, one may be overcome by passionate ignorance, but due to the nature of them, you don’t know that that’s what’s happened. So you have to know your situation. And those qualities which are explained in the beginning of the chapter, they’re called divine because they lead to pure goodness, correct? They can be used to be elevated. Right? And the demoniac qualities generally are not elevated because you develop them from not applying the process. When you apply the process, then it naturally generates the good qualities. But if you don’t apply it, it naturally generates the bad ones.

Yes. The divine qualities, you say, are necessary but not sufficient?

Yeah, they’re necessary but not sufficient. That would be a good way of saying it. Yes?

What means demoniac nature not following Vedas?

Yes, but what was his point of the Vedas?

No, but what is his point in following the Vedas?

Yes, so is that what the Vedas are meant for? So that’s what we opened the class with, was pointing out that following the Vedas for your own purpose, that’s not what we’re talking about. That’s the smarta. But following the Vedas very nicely to please Kṛṣṇa, that’s what we want. So devotees who criticize other devotees who follow and say they’re smartas because they follow rules, and we’re not smartas, therefore we don’t follow any rules, this is a misunderstanding of what Kṛṣṇa is saying.

So that’s why Rūpa Gosvāmī very quickly in his essence to Nectar of Devotion points out Niyamāgraha.

I think it’s the second verse, right? So because this is the weakness of the neophyte, is because they see things according to the externals of ritual, they don’t understand the purpose of the ritual. And so they think either by following it, that’s perfect, or because it doesn’t make sense they don’t follow it, then that’s proper. This is their weakness. They’re supposed to follow because you understand his connection to Kṛṣṇa.

Is Vedic Brahmanical demoniac?

So you’re falling into this trap that I’m telling you to avoid.

See, the point is, is there’s the context that we’re in here. That it’s expected that either you understand this or you don’t. See, it’s like, basically you’re, means it’s an important question, but unfortunately it’s an important question if we were dealing with the second or third chapter. You know what I’m saying? And so to put so much, I say, emotional weight behind it, it’s not actually fair to the rest of the audience.

Because if I don’t answer it, then you feel I’m not answering your question, and I’m not, it’s not fair, and you’re here and participating, and you’re investing, and I’m not reciprocating. But the problem is, is it’s not you and me. There’s an audience here, this is a course of study.

So I’m saying, so I’ve answered your question already three times in the last 40 minutes.

But the problem is, is you’re not discriminating between the form of something and the principle on which the form functions. If you don’t understand the principle, then your application of the form is pious. But without knowing its actual purpose, you may not obtain it. Because in anything you perform an activity, there’s a particular experience that’s gained in a relationship, but it will produce as a side effect a visual form.

So you’re only seeing the form. This form generates that form, and that’s all. But the point is, is you’re generating that form because you’re performing an activity. That activity is between two parties and their relationship.

So the soul and God, you’re performing an activity. It’s not that you’re trying to get the result, the result is the goal. The pleasure of Krishna is the goal. So you’re going to try to please Krishna by endeavoring for that particular result, but it’s the quality of your endeavor that makes it devotion, not that you got that result. That doesn’t mean that getting the result’s not important.

Because if you’re doing the right activity, you get the right result. Wrong activity, wrong result. So since you want to please Krishna, then there is a process to go through it. That process has to be followed properly. So if that’s not understood, then these subtle points are not going to be caught. So therefore, there’s always going to be us and them, good and bad. But this is duality. What we’re talking here is it’s divine because it’s connected to Krishna, and it’s demoniac because it’s not. That’s the only consideration. So it’s all about Krishna. So there’s no duality. There’s variety, but there’s no duality.

Chapter 17. The divisions of faith. There are three types of faith corresponding to and evolving from the three modes of material nature.

So you have the way to disconnect yourself from the material energy and connect yourself to the Lord by seeing the knower of the field and the field.

So this then is going to be influenced by the modes of nature. But by seeing in this way, you can overcome the modes. By overcoming the modes, material existence goes away. But your situation or inclination is based on the qualities.

And then within those qualities, we have the faith. So you have a particular faith that will push you towards manifesting those qualities.

So now this faith is being discussed because this is where then you see why someone would think the demoniac qualities are good because their faith, or why they would think the divine qualities are good because of faith.

Acts performed by those whose faith is in passion and ignorance yield only impermanent material results, whereas acts performed in goodness, in accord with scriptural injunctions, purify the heart and lead to pure faith in Lord Krishna and devotion to Him.

So the point is, is faith should be properly situated in Krishna, not distracted by these other elements, right? Because we’re talking pure devotion, right? So when one’s engaged in karma yoga, jnana yoga, the weakness in them is the element of karma jnana yoga. I mean, yeah, it’s not the connection to the Lord that’s the weakness, it’s what you’re connecting. And why do we call it karma yoga? Because we’re focused on the karma, right? Devotional service, service means action. You’re going to perform that action, the body is going to be involved, right? So that means that just because it’s activity, that doesn’t make it karma yoga, right? It’s called karma yoga because the karma is important to you, but you’re connecting it to the Lord.

So if it’s done in, how you say, that process is in the mode of goodness, it’s purifying. So it brings you to the platform of pure goodness. But if it’s not done, if you use another level of faith, then you’re increasing passion and ignorance. So that means your knowledge and understanding of it won’t work. You can’t see the difference. You can’t actually see the difference between the material and the spiritual, which is the whole point of these chapters. Being able to tell the difference between the field and the soul. If you can tell that, then you can see Supersoul.

But if you can’t tell the difference between these, there’ll be a problem.

So verses 1 to 6, faith and worship according to the modes. Verses 7 to 22, food, sacrifices, austerities and charity according to the modes. And verses 23 to 28, the goal of all activities, pleasing Kṛṣṇa.

So verses 1 to 6, chapter 17, divisions of faith. Arjuna inquired, O Kṛṣṇa, what is the situation of those who do not follow the principles of scripture, but worship according to their own imagination? Are they in goodness, in passion, or in ignorance?

The Supreme Personality of God had said, According to the modes of nature acquired by the embodied soul, one’s faith can be of three kinds, in goodness, in passion, or in ignorance.

Now hear about this, right? Because here is now his motive. I mean, his point in asking this question is, okay, people make up their own. Now, when we say, okay, people make up their own, what is the default setting of that person who makes up his own? What modes would we put them in?

Yeah, ignorance and passion. But Kṛṣṇa is saying here, goodness, passion and ignorance. That means, so that’s, the point is, is there are people in the mode of goodness. They act in goodness. But it’s still demoniac.

It’s just, they want a more refined quality of lust, anger and greed.

You understand? So he wants to know, how does that work? Because the Upanishad says, you have to study knowledge and ignorance side by side. With the point of being able to understand and differentiate, so that you choose knowledge, not ignorance. Because ignorance means it’s not connected to the Lord. Knowledge means it is. So the mode of goodness connected to the Lord, then that’s knowledge. Mode of goodness not connected to the Lord, technically, that’s ignorance.

Does that make sense? So we’re taking ignorance and then within that looking, what’s goodness, passion and ignorance?

Yes. Can you use the word demoniac? Some commentators, they say that the 1623, the point is completely abandoned. That’s completely demoniac. Whereas when you get to chapter 17, they say that, okay, ultimately, as you’re pointing out, there’s some connection with the demoniac. But it’s that those who are following, accepting scripture in principle, but because of lower modes influence, they’re following whimsically, haphazardly, and inventing half of it, following half of it. So they point out that they’re not as demonic as you might say. No, but still, it’s… Why making the emphasis is because we’re trying to break a stereotype of how we are defining divine and demoniac. Let us say, just go back, blunt example. Okay, you’re sitting in a community and man A runs off with man B’s wife.

Okay, just some random example.

Nothing that necessarily we are much subjected to, right? So now, what’s the problem? So now the senior members of that community will get together and they’ll think of a solution.

No? Yes? This is your question.

Yes or no?

Oh, sorry. Okay, yeah, no, it’s okay.

So the senior devotees will get together to find some solution to the problem, okay? So now, how are they going to approach? So man A has run off with man B’s wife, so is that good? No, so he deserves some punishment, right? So what’s the basis of that punishment?

What’s the problem, right? He’s morally done something wrong, then we have to set a good example, we have to correct this, okay? Sounds fine, right? But that’s looking at it possibly from the mode of goodness. Was there one word in any of these sentences that had anything to do with devotion to Krishna? That’s where the demoniac comes in. So if one doesn’t understand this, it said it’s a road leading to hell, right?

So that means you’re on the road, it’s going that direction.

But you turn around, you’re going the other direction, because there’s only one path.

So just because it’s only a little bit demoniac doesn’t mean it’s okay.

But the point is, is you want to be able to discern so you know how much it is, at what stage it is, because you have to deal with the individual where they are. My point is, is they’ll make it up. So now, what do they do with this member of the community?

What do they decide?

You know, he should leave the community, or he should do this, or he should do that. And everybody goes, yeah, great, now we’ve solved the problem. Still, in all of that, where was scripture, where was Krishna, where was devotion?

It didn’t exist.

That’s demoniac. It may be nice demoniac, it may be judicial demoniac, it may be worried about the community demoniac, but it’s still demoniac.

Because if we’re going to deal with the world of duality, we’re dealing with duality, divine demoniac, us. Now that one can see gradations within that, that’s the intelligence required to actually work with it and do something with it. So how are they going to actually know the gradations of that? Because we’ll say, oh, it’s only a little demonic, so it’s not actually demoniac. So cool, yeah, very nice, but that means then we can discriminate. If we can discriminate, then we can actually tell the process that’s going on, because we’re seeing it according to scripture. At what point was the field and the soul ever discriminated there? At what point was it he’s acting under the modes? Because that’s not the soul. The soul didn’t run off with someone else’s wife. The modes of nature did.

So the real problem is the person’s under the modes. And in this case, the modes are worse than someone else. He’s not overwhelmed by the mode of goodness. He’s overwhelmed by passion and ignorance. So that’s more of a problem. That’s farther down the path.

Someone else is just attached to their yoga asanas and everything being nice and peaceful, and no one’s speaking too strongly, and this and that. And so this person’s overwhelmed by goodness.

Still, demoniac, but overwhelmed by goodness. Because in all these scenarios, there’s no connection to Krishna.

Does that make sense? So to be able to discern that so you know, okay, now how we’re going to deal with the person overwhelmed by goodness is definitely going to be different than the person who’s overwhelmed by passion and ignorance. But it’s not the soul that’s overwhelmed. It’s not the soul that’s doing these things. Therefore, it’s not that this person is a demon. No, they’re acting according to demoniac qualities.

But why is it bad? What’s wrong with running off with the other guy’s wife?

Yeah, because Krishna doesn’t like that.

It doesn’t create the proper atmosphere for the proper social interaction. And that social interaction is the basis of Krishna consciousness. That’s the field you’re going to use in Krishna consciousness. Not that it is Krishna consciousness. The guy doesn’t run off with someone else’s wife, then that means now he’s Krishna conscious.

No, it means that that’s a better situation for being Krishna conscious, because you can follow the rules from there much easier. From the other one, it’s going to be much harder to find. You’ve run off with someone else’s wife. It’s going to be much harder to find rules that will apply to what your situation you’re in.

You know what I’m saying? So you narrow your scope very much. And if you can’t discern there, there’s a good chance you can’t discern on the finder. You know, if you can’t tell the difference between black and white, there’s a good chance you can’t tell gray.

Does it make sense? But I understand using the word demoniac to break our stereotype of… But I’m using it because the last chapter was that, and Krishna and Arjuna and Prabhupada and Baladeva and Vishwanath used the term. That’s good. The only way I can understand it is that there are two things happening at the same time. And in the big picture, that it’s not the maniac, it’s pious, it’s… But what is piety? Define piety.

Acting… Well, I mean, we can define it the way the Yamadunas defined it, following the Vedas, following the scriptures. And so what was the problem? And what was the problem with the Yamadunas? Why were they bewildered? They didn’t have a single religion that only 12 people knew. They didn’t know that. Yeah, but what’s that religion?

Worship and service. Right. So that’s the point. Rules and regulations not connected to the Lord still are a problem. So you can still follow the rules and regulations, and then you’re more pious of the demoniac because the lust, anger and greed are there.

Because that’s an essential point. At the same time, we’re pointing out is how they’re going to take those is going to be whimsical. I accept all that. Let’s say we go into the manor, right? You’ve been in the manor? Yeah, once. Okay. And then you go into the brahmachari bathroom. What’s in the brahmachari bathroom on the floor? Besides the floor, there’s some magic plastic shoes. Now you put on these magic plastic shoes, you can go into the toilet, use the toilet, come out, wash your hands and walk away and your feet did not become contaminated. Who made up that stupid rule?

The guarantee of probably possibly 80% of our society accepts this rule, which has nothing to do with anything Krishna, the Acharyas or anyone will agree with.

Does that make sense? Where did that come from? Devotees make it up. And then when you say, no, you’re supposed to wash your feet, oh, don’t be fanatic, like you’re the smarter. And they’re the very liberal, you know, Krishna conscious person. What I’m trying to understand is that… See, the problem is, is you’re coming in at a point where everybody else here understands the definitions.

You know what I’m saying?

So, basically, we’ve already gone beyond the politically correct presentation. Because politically correct presentation is not going to work for the individual. It has nothing to do with politics. I’m talking in terms of the yoga ladder, the usual way you define things. It’s not a question of politically correct. It’s Krishna did dharana shrama. This is Krishna’s system. Yes. So, in a big sense, that’s why I’m suggesting there are two things happening. There are two things happening. It’s pious because you’re accepting Krishna’s system, even if you may not have it together in terms of your motivation yet. There’s a demonic aspect within the pious, general pious. That’s it. But isn’t that what we were just defining before? Didn’t we just define that? That in the material world, that even though it’s demoniac being situated here because one is opposed to Krishna, then within that you divide it into pious and impious. And so the pious is useful if you connect it to Krishna. If you don’t, then you’re just another nice guy in prison in the material world. That was the reason for we were talking about the white collar prison as opposed to the high security.

You see, probably what’s happening here is that there’s principles on which we’re talking. And because we’ve been doing this for the last four months, those are caught by the others. So these definitions are already understood. So that’s probably why it doesn’t come out that way. It’s just the idea of being connected to Krishna. That’s all. If it’s connected, it’s perfect. If it’s not connected, it’s a problem. But at least formally it’s connected if you follow Krishna’s system. If you follow Krishna’s system under this spiritual master, don’t make up your stuff. But like I mentioned there, are those plastic shoes that you wore into the toilet, is that connected to Krishna? What’s the reason for it? They don’t want to wash their feet, right? They built the bathrooms in the manor. They weren’t there before. They could have put in a tap to wash your feet, right? In Los Angeles, before you go in the Deity room, there’s a tap. In Hungary, before you go in the Deity, there’s a tap. So it is possible. Right? You know, somehow or another by the glories of modern, you know, plumbing, you know, you can do such things. But they didn’t. And they think that by their plastic shoes, they’ve accomplished the same point.

That’s a problem. And then you say, oh, that’s not a big deal. But then it goes down. But that means then they’re unclean. And then unclean means the mode of ignorance. And then you see it just snowballs into so many other things. You’re suggesting you can wash your feet properly and still have them on there. You can do that also, because there is that side also, because there’ll be the pro -Vedics who simply say, you just follow all these rules very nicely, and that’s perfect. And then anybody who doesn’t is the nonsense. And then you have the, you know, the broad-minded liberals on the other side who are not so fanatic about it and see with a much greater vision. But they both missed the point of Krishna consciousness. The point is, it’s connection to Krishna. If the rules aren’t connected, you’ve missed the point. And if you throw out the rules, that still, you know, without connecting to Krishna, it still has no meaning.

Just that we please ourself by, you know, we’re naturally more conservative, so we found that position in Krishna consciousness. Or we’re more liberal, so we found that position in Krishna consciousness. But we’re still not connecting it to Krishna.

So we’re just discerning both sides. This is why it becomes confusing. Prabhupada will open the statement by, you know, human life begins, you know, by following Varnashra. So basically it means if you’re not following Varnashra, you’re not human. Then he’ll spend, you know, one or two paragraphs, you know, talking about those who follow Varnashra but not connected to Krishna, how this is not good. And then, then those who haven’t caught that, then what will happen is, is they will take it that, oh, Prabhupada is saying Varnashram is not important.

Means if you bring up Varnashram in a general, you know, not new devotees, they’ll, you know, happy to hear anything. But in senior devotees, one of the first things they’ll do is say, oh, Prabhupada says it’s not important. Why?

Because they can’t discriminate between it’s to be done, but if it’s not done in connection to Krishna, it’s still useless.

Right? In other words, you’re cooking for Krishna, so you should cook nicely. But if you only cook nicely and don’t think of Krishna, it’s still useless.

That’s the point. So you can be Lord Brahma. You’ve created the universe. You’re doing it under the Lord’s direction. But if you’re not doing it to please Krishna, it’s still a waste of time.

Right? It’s pious, but it’s still a waste of time. As far as proper use of time is that the soul has done activities to please God in such a way that he develops his relationship with him. If that’s the perspective. So what we’re trying to make is that balance is that one doesn’t go too much this way or that way, because as we see from previous questions here, it’s this or it’s that. So we’re trying to avoid that. We’re trying to keep show the middle path that you don’t get off this way or that way. Because the razor’s edge is pretty thin.

Unfortunately, this is the fun part, right? It’s the razor’s edge to go back to Godhead. But if you’re going the other way, it’s the royal road to hell. Right? And according to Arthashastra, the royal road is very wide. It’s the widest of all roads. It’s huge. You can take an army down it.

So this is the fun part. Because, you know, if you’re going to hell, anything you do will take you there. Right? But if you want to go back to Godhead, then only certain things are going to work.

Does that any better? I appreciate what you’re making, the discrimination here, the fine point, the analyzation.

But it’s just that these points have been gone over, you know, probably, you know, I don’t know, 10, 20, 30 hours worth of discussions. So that’s why for the others, it’s just going by. It’s not good to me either, because I’ve heard you, I mean, I’ve almost listened to your classes, recording classes. It’s just a little dull-headed, so I have to have it, like, confirmed. Yeah, no, no. The point is, is that the, why are the, why are the divine qualities recommended?

Because those are the qualities that Krishna wants to interact on.

So that’s why they’re divine, and the demoniac qualities are the ones that are not.

So it’s only because of the connection to Krishna that divine becomes useful and the demoniac’s not.

Right? So the point is, is if you have the good qualities, because nowadays, that’s why I mentioned political correctness now, and that example is, this goes on all the time. Somebody does something wrong, and the basis for their decision is not on scripture.

You know, so something that scripture would take very lightly, they take very heavily. And something that scripture would be very strong about, oh, they’re very liberal and broad-minded and not fanatic.

Yeah, and so this is whimsical.

So it’s, the drive is actually the demoniac nature. Though the individual who’s proposing that is not a demon. They’re a sincere devotee in this and that, but their conditioning is there, and they’re acting according to their conditioning. And they don’t know that their conditioning being applied in this way is actually detrimental to devotional development.

That’s the point we’re making.

So one has to discern. So it’s not that just because it’s according to the rule, that’s what makes it perfect. No, you still have to be able to understand the rule in connection with Krishna. So the point is to develop the fineness to be able to define Krishna in everything.

And of finding Krishna in everything, then Krishna recommends finding Him through the divine, through the mode of goodness.

Because goodness is simply the reflection of the spiritual world, which is pure goodness.

Right? Here it’s goodness, but it’s temporary. In the spiritual world, it’s eternal. Therefore, existence there is based on seeing one’s relationship with Krishna, and here it’s based on not seeing one’s relationship with Krishna.

Yes? If you use the mode of goodness in connection with Krishna, as you say, does that, by this association with Krishna, does that become pure goodness? If it’s connected to Krishna, yes. But if it’s not, then no. But the point is, just like this one, I think I mentioned this here. Bhakti Trumaj, he’d only been, I’m not sure how long, maybe a year, year and a half he had been joining the movement. And Prabhupada was going to give him sannyasa. He’s quite new in this way. And so many of the other, you know, more senior sannyasis and that, then they were worried about this point. They went to Prabhupada with their anxiety. You know, Prabhupada is so new, he may fall down, this, that, blah. And Prabhupada said, he looked at him and said, yes, if he falls down, he’ll fall down to the mode of goodness.

So, you know.

So the mode of goodness is the most useful, but it’s only, it’s why we say it’s important is simply because of its efficiency in helping us become God conscious. What I’m trying to say is goodness doesn’t stand on its own. Because as soon as goodness, and how does, how does the non-Vedic mind define goodness?

Morality, ethics, mundane, extended sense gratification, it’s pranamoya, so justice, morality, and then economics. Because you see, the people that are most worried about morality and justice are also the most worried about economics. So what are they going to come in? Oh, they’re not doing this and this, and the accounts are off. They’ll never talk about the deity worship, the Kalamis, the standards. They won’t talk about, you know, any of these other things, Vaishnav etiquette, you know, this and that, Uranash. No, these won’t be the discussions. It’ll always be these three, justice, economics, and ethics.

It’s pranamoya. So what we’re trying to point out is that this is the modern cultural platform.

Does that make sense? You’re dealing, modern pop culture is based on the bourgeois. The bourgeois are the Vaishyas, right? Or the point is this, even though they’re Vaishyas, they got money. That’s the whole point.

You understand? So money only works if there’s ethics and justice. Otherwise, if there’s not, someone else can take it from you, right? You know, he promised, he took the goods, promised to give you money. He didn’t give the money. I want my money. I want my money back. That’s justice. Does that make sense? So therefore, we define that working nicely, that that’s goodness, right? Passion will be that you want all these facilities without paying. It’s not just, right? Ignorance means you’re not willing to cooperate with the system. Does that make sense? So we have to see that our definitions are according to Krishna. So that’s why he’s going through and very carefully saying what each thing is. Otherwise, we will make up our own.

That’s the point.

Does that make sense? So it’ll stick. Just like, let us say, to just give an example, means it’s not a problem. But let’s say you want to greet somebody. Now you go to a temple and some new devotee comes and, you know, whoever’s doing the MC will say, this devotee’s come. We would like to welcome him. What are they going to do?

How many times? Yes. Why three? Why not two? Why not four? So they just found it worked nicely for them at the temple that started that. And it does work perfectly for them. But now they’ve created that just because that worked according to their nature. Does scripture say you should do that? No. So they’ve created that. But because it’s in pursuance of the scriptures, then it’s fine. But now I’ve gone to other temples where they do that. It doesn’t have the same life as in that temple that started that. And therefore, it just becomes a ritual. But because it’s a ritual, it’s easy. I don’t know what to do. What should I do? So I just do that and then it’s done. But wouldn’t it have been, you know, what about the element? Do they have a place to stay? You know, are you taking care of their needs or this and that? So the temple that originally started it, they’ve already done all that. Then they’re saying, Haribol. But this other temple you’re going to, all they’re going to do is say Haribol and you’re on your own.

You understand? So they think, no, we’ve done it. You know, we’re doing what they do. But they didn’t do because the other one, the principle of Vaishnava etiquette and serving Vaishnavas is there. And this is just another expression.

You know, but in the other, they’re following that seeming rule. But that was created. And so they said, no, we’re doing what we’re supposed to do. No, the Shastra says you’re supposed to take care of the needs of the devotee. And then you’re glorifying and making them comfortable. That’s part of that.

You understand? So this is what we’re meaning is we create our own religion. So if that’s not in line with Guru Sadhana Shastra, it’s not actually going to work. So you see its connection, it works. Someone else who doesn’t see the connection, it doesn’t work. You understand? So that’s why the scriptures give basic things that this is works, whether you understand it or not. But something that happens by tradition, then one has to be very, very careful because those are more where things go wrong. Because if you don’t understand the principle, it may not work at all. You know, all the basic things you get up during the Brahma Muhurta, it is a better time. Your mind is going to be in a better state. You understand? Does that make sense? So those ones work. If you understand them, they work very quickly. You don’t understand them, they’ll situate you in goodness.

But the others may or may not. You know, in other words, they’re a fine point added on to something already that’s good that’s going on. You know what I’m saying? It’s just like, let’s say you have a meal here, you know, your chapatis, your subji and everything like that. And then I give you, you know, some achar. Okay? Nice. No? What happens? And then the other guys think, okay, so the point is the achar. And so now you come to the other guy’s house and he just gives you some achar. Are you going to be satisfied? No. So that’s the point. They can’t tell the difference. They can’t tell the connection. The point is the others understand meal and how the achar connects to that meal. So it’s an expansion of it. So therefore, the three Hari bolas are an expansion of that to meal. But the other ones just say, oh, we’ll do the three Hari bolas and that’s it. Because they don’t understand what the meal is. So they don’t understand the service to Vaishnavas.

Does that make sense? This is the point. We’re trying to discriminate between these different elements. So we must know what modes are working. Because our conditioned nature works according to the modes. Our constitutional nature doesn’t. So we can situate ourself constitutionally by understanding the difference between the field and the knower of the field. Right? That automatically, you’re beyond the modes. But what gets in the way of us constantly thinking like that is our conditioning, which is controlled by the modes. So you know how the modes work. In other words, know your enemy.

Right? If you don’t know the enemy, how do you know what to do?

You know what I’m saying? Okay, if your enemy, you know that something’s going to come and attack you. You know, and so what if it’s a bunch of mosquitoes? So what do you need? Right? Repellent. A screen. Okay, what happens if the enemy is a bunch of elephants? Your repellent may not work.

Right? You know what I’m saying? So you have to know. So if you don’t know the modes, how are you going to know how to deal with them?

Does that make sense? Then, does that make sense? So there’s this fine point here is that it’s useful because it’s connected to Krishna. And so because it can be connected to Krishna, therefore we analyze it. That’s what Prabhupada mentioned before. Is that engaging the body, mind, and words in Krishna’s service, that’s devotion. That’s pure devotional service. Now, the techniques of engaging the body, techniques of the mind, techniques of the intelligence, that is defined in karma yoga, jnana yoga, and dhyana yoga. Right? And because we’re learning these things, that’s the most important. We learn it from that angle. Otherwise, pious people learn it from karma, jnana, and yoga. But that can take lifetimes. So we see it, you know, what’s the essential point connected to Krishna? Because we’ll use all three. Because our point is body, mind, and words.

You know what I’m saying? Well, the other ones, then it’s only the body, or only the mind, or only the words.

Does that make sense? So that combination, that’s buddhi yoga. But there’s a technique of it. But that technique can also be used not connected to Krishna. Right? We, you know, this point of naiskaramya, and, you know, connecting like this. If you go to a lecture by a hardcore Mayavadi that’s talking to a bunch of grihasthas, they’re going to preach exactly this. They’re going to use all the same words, same examples, same everything. You’re going to think, wow, they’re so Krishna conscious. No, they’re not. Because their point is you’re going to use this to elevate yourself to liberation, and that’s it. You become God.

As Prabhupada says, the path of the impersonalist to get liberated, and the path of the devotee to get liberated is the same. The point is, is they get liberated.

Mukti. But the devotee coming to that platform is called Brahmabhuta. Because Brahmabhuta means you’re situated on the Brahman platform, but you’re in pursuance of bhakti.

So the path is the same. So I give the example. Cooking’s the same. You know, whether you’re, you know, a nonsense, karmic, demon, rascal, you know, you’re going to bake a potato. It’s going to be the same way as if you’re baking the potato for Krishna.

Right? Does that make sense? So it’s not that, you know, they only buy potatoes that have horns and fangs on them, and then they make those for themselves, right? You know, it’s like, you know, they think, yeah, it’s a really good bite. You know, that doesn’t mean that you’re biting. It’s biting you, right? That’s the, right? You understand? It’s the same. Because it’s a reflection. The point is, is you know the reality, therefore you can use the reflection, right? You know your own face, and the difference between your face and the face in the mirror, therefore you can look in the mirror and do things with your face.

But someone who’s an ignorant, he can’t tell that. He thinks it’s another face, right? The dog thinks it’s a different face.

So that’s the point, is that the mode of goodness and all these things, they’re reflecting from the spiritual world. So you understand them in connection to Krishna, you can use them here. You don’t understand the connection to Krishna, you can’t use them here, you’ll be bound. So that’s my point, is devotees are thinking all these so-called good qualities, so equality and this and that, but they don’t see a connection to Krishna. They’re bound by that. They endeavor for it, they’re bound by it, right? But you see the original, then you can work with it here. Because what is the equality, right? So the women want the equality of what? Of being, you know, able to do the same service. But the point is, is the men, when they deal in that service, they deal with each other in a particular way. Man to man. Do the women want to be dealt with man to man? Not at all. They’ll yell and scream and say, this is, you know, you’re, you’re, you know, how you say, what are the words they use? You know, you’re dealing with them improperly and roughly.

Yeah, chauvinistic. No, that’s just dealing in a man’s world. That’s how a man deals with a man. But the point is, is they want the same facility, but want to be dealt with as a woman. So where’s the equality? So in their definition, they don’t believe in it. All they’re trying to do is get their work done. So it’s just needy. It’s not equality.

Equality is, you know, you get what you need. So man gets what he needs. Woman gets what she needs. That’s equality.

But because they can’t define these things, then they make a mistake. And so these mistakes sometimes are very disastrous.

They probably said, Naradama. Naradama doesn’t get anywhere. In Krishna’s book, they’re not situated very well, right? They don’t surrender. Why? Because they make up their own systems.

You know what I’m saying? So what we’re discriminating here is that the devotee is 90% devotional, but that 10 % that’s not, what is it? It’s going to be non-devotional, which means demoniac. So unless you know how it works, how are you going to know how to take it and remove that demoniac quality and connect it to Krishna, though you’re still attached to it, right? So there may be so much element that’s pure, but then that element’s not. So now you figure out what it is, what mode it’s in. Then you can say, is karma yoga going to connect it? Jnana yoga going to connect it? Jnana yoga going to connect it? Right? What aspect am I going to use to break? It’s like Prabhupada says, the snake. If you break the teeth, it may be poisonous, but you can’t get affected by it. The poison’s there, but you can’t get bit. So as soon as you connect it through bhuta yoga, the snake and materialism can’t bite you anymore.

Why? Because you’re not acting under the modes. Why? Because you discriminate between you and the material energy.

But what’s stopping you is the modes, so therefore we’re defining them in these ways. Does that make sense? That’s good.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, according to the modes of nature acquired by the embodied soul, one’s faith can be of three kinds, in goodness, in passion, or in ignorance. Now hear about this.

Utsanabharta, according to one’s existence under the various modes of nature, one evolves a particular kind of faith. The living being is said to be of a particular faith according to the modes he has acquired.

Men in the mode of goodness worship the demigods, those in the mode of passion worship the demons, and those in the mode of ignorance worship ghosts and spirits.

Those who undergo severe austerities and tendencies not recommended in the scriptures, performing them out of pride and egoism, who are impelled by lust and attachment, who are foolish and who torture the material elements of the body, as well as the super-soul, dwelling with men, are known as demons.

So in other words, they’ve created this out of their own pride, right? So in other words, that pride is then the end result, out of illusion, then you get pride, right? So then that pride then means then they have an identity, and that identity is separate from the Lord. So lust and attachment.

You know, foolish means they don’t know the connection to Krishna. And so, these are fine points to understand. Otherwise, why would he mention all this to Arjuna? One is okay, to preach, but at this point, he hasn’t situated himself to be a preacher, because to be a preacher, you have to be convinced. So it’s not that we sit and end at 18th chapter, that Arjuna’s heard all this, now I’m convinced. Does this make sense? So in other words, this is how we can see that we ourselves are very careful about it. You know, like Arjuna, okay.

Chitra Ratha, he wants to give him a gift, because, you know, he defeated him in battle, and he, you know, they spared his life, he wants to give him a gift. Arjuna won’t accept it, why not?

Right? Kshatriyas don’t accept charity. Right? If it’s friend to friend, as equals, you give a gift, that’s fine. But as charity, they don’t accept. Right? So he’s very strong on this. This comes up time and time again. You know, so there’s a great pride, and there’s a great ego in this point. But it’s not a problem, because Shastra says, this is what you should do. Right? Does that make sense? And they’re devotees, so they see this as, you know, they set the proper example. So for them, it’s no problem. There’s other demons, they have their vows, and this and that, I won’t do this, but what’s the basis? Is it Shastra? If it is, good. And then it’s Shastra. Is it connected to Krishna?

Okay.

Verses 1 to 6. Faith and worship, according to the Mohis. Chapter 16 established that those who follow the Vedas with faith are divine, and those who do not follow the Vedas are demoniac. According to Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, in the beginning of Chapter 17, Arjuna asked a question.

Those who study the Vedas and with faith in the scriptures undertake activities according to its rules are called devatas. Those who ignore the Vedas and act as they please without following Vedic rules are called demons or asuras. You have said this in the previous chapter. Now, this is my question. In what position are those who have read and understood the Vedas, which are difficult to understand, give up the rules out of laziness or other reasons and worship the devatas or other beings with faith generated through popular usage? So, here, popular usage. That means that’s what we would call nowadays modern.

So, this concept has always been there. There’s always that concept of that. So, he says, give up the rules out of laziness and other reasons, and do things according to popular usage, because popular means it’s temporary. That’s what makes something modern. Modern means temporary.

Vedic means eternal.

What is their position among the godly and demoniac types previously defined? If they ignore scriptures but have faith, right? Because the other one is it was very clear, right? So, you know, this is the easy part, right? Those who study the Vedas with faith in the scriptures undertake activities according to its rules are called devatas, clear. Those who ignore the Vedas and act as they please without following Vedic rules are called demons or asuras, clear. He’s saying, what about those who have faith, but at the same time don’t follow due to laziness or make up their own stuff within that, but follow the procedures of the divine, but only doing it because of popular usage, because it’s modern. So, therefore, it’s acceptable. It’s politically correct. It’s okay. Not because it’s scriptural.

You know what I’m saying? So, he’s like, what about that? Now, just on the side, people may say that this is 5,000 years old, doesn’t apply to the present, but this exactly is pinpointing the present. Because at any time in history, there’s always been a modern man, right? Who thinks separately than the Vedas. There’s always been.

What is their position among the godly and demoniac types previously defined? If they ignore scripture but have faith and worship, have they taken shelter of sattva or of rajas and tamas? The word aho is placed in the middle to indicate the two choices. Is it sattva or is it rajas and tamas? Because rajas and tamas are of the one quality and goodness is of the other, right? One has to be used to the point where you say there’s two things, but in one of those two things there’s included more than one, right? Means there’s the knower of the field and the knower of the field. But in knower of the field there’s two, the supreme knower and the individual soul, right? So we can accommodate these things that we can very easily grasp the concepts because if you catch the concepts, it’s very easy to take anything and categorize it according to those concepts. And then it has those subsections and then each of those have their subsections, but you know where it goes back to. So it’s not that you have these different things that don’t connect to each other. Modern knowledge is like that. You know, you have chemistry and you have quantum, they have nothing to do with each other. But in the Vedic, they’re going to be one topic, just different aspects of one topic.

Does that make sense?

In other words, Arjuna’s question about those whose position is between the two extremes, the demigods and the demons, they are faithful worshipers which connect them with the demigods, but at the same time, they give up daily conjunctions whimsically, which makes them similar to the demons, right? So I could say, oh, why are we speaking so strongly? They’re devotees, they’re sincere. Why don’t you see the good side? You know, the cup is half full. Why are you seeing half empty? Point is this, yes, but unless you understand the cup is half full, but unless you understand it’s half empty, it’s not going to become full. It’s going to remain half full, but a positive half full, a nice, pleasant half full.

And so then on Monday, we’ll continue with this.

This is on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Yes, yes. This is as far as I can see now. The time seems to work. Pratibhadra will ask me to announce that in the afternoon between four and five, on the same days, okay, you’ll present a seminar on Pranam Cintamani. Okay, very nice. For the students, sir. Good, very good.

Okay.

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