Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #69

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #69

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Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

After reading verse 26, someone may ask, why Krsna’s devotees should attain only the impersonal Brahman and not Krsna Himself? The Lord answers in verse 27, Krsna is the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal, and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.

Thus, attaining Brahman in this case means attaining the qualification for performing pure devotional service to Bhagavan, Sri Krsna.

So in other words, Brahman’s the platform, the common platform. It means it’s hard to interact with someone if you’re not in the same place. So the state of existence of Brahman is eternity. The state of existence of the material world is ignorance. So these are the two choices of states of existence. So therefore, if we’re situated in Brahman, then we have the opportunity to deal with Krsna on the eternal platform. But that’s why He says, I’m the basis of the Brahman. So then, therefore, it’s natural, that’s the next step.

Sridhar Swami gives the following meaning in verse 27. I am the basis of Brahman means I am the condensed Brahman, just as the sun globe is condensed light, just as the sun, though being the form of light, also acts as the basis of light. So I, Krsna, am the form of Brahman, but also I am the basis of Brahman.

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusa summarizes chapter 14 as follows. One remains in samsara by combination with the modes. One becomes liberated by surpassing the gunas. This is attained only by devotion to the Lord. This is the knowledge to be gained from chapter 14. So in other words, all these other elements that are there, that we’re dealing with, then being bound in the modes means you’re in the material platform.

So what keeps one away from pure devotional service, then, is the modes of nature.

So if we understand how to transcend the modes, then we are situated in devotional service.

And then the fun part is that only by devotional service can you transcend the modes. But this is not one of the which came first, the chicken or the egg kind of things. Devotional service, being eternal and being the nature of the soul, is always accessible. Because we’re not dealing with the position of all or nothing. We’re not dealing with duality here. We’re dealing with the connection. So how much you are free from the modes, that much you could be situated in devotional service. That much you’re situated in devotional service, that much you’re free from the modes.

Chapter 15.

That’s all we have. That was all there was.

Yoga of the Supreme Person.

So this is for the chapter in particular.

The ultimate purpose of Vedic knowledge is to detach oneself from the entanglement of the material world and to understand Lord Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One who understands Krishna’s supreme identity surrenders unto Him and engages in His devotional service. So taking a step at a time. So you surpass the modes, you situate yourself on the Brahman platform. Because before we said there’s the field, there’s the living entity and there’s the Lord. So the field and the knower of the field. So the Lord is the supreme knower. So the last chapter we learned how to understand and situate ourselves as Brahman by understanding devotion to the Lord. That’s the principle. So now we understand that person to which that devotion will be applied.

Does that make sense? So it’s very logically going through each step to make sure that we are… There’s nothing left to doubt, right?

Verses 1 to 6, detachment from illusion and attainment of reality. Verses 7 to 11, the transmigration of the soul.

Does that mean every time we go to buy stuff, then we have the opportunity to… Oh no, that would be the transmigration, right? Because you’re getting all those things based on the field and identifying with the field. Then one is, it continues transmigration.

Nobody got this?

7, 11?

Verses 12 to 15, Krishna is the maintainer of everybody. He is the knower of the Vedas and the compiler of Vedanta. And verses 16 to 20, summary of Vedanta Sutra.

So verses 1 to 6.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, it is said that there is an imperishable banyan tree that has its roots upward and its branches down and whose leaves are the Vedic hymns. One who knows this tree is the knower of the Vedas.

The branches of this tree extend downward and upward, nourished by the three modes of material nature. The twigs are the objects of the senses. This tree also has roots going down and these are bound to the fruit of actions of human society.

The real form of this tree cannot be perceived in this world. No one can understand where it ends, where it begins or where its foundation is. But with determination, one must cut down the strongly rooted tree with a weapon of detachment.

Therefore, one must seek that place from which, having gone, one never returns. And there surrender to that Supreme Personality of Godhead from whom everything began and from whom everything has extended since time immemorial. So seek that place. So again, you’re going to have a relationship in a place. The environment, the field is where interaction happens. So the problem is being defined in the material world is this banyan tree, so it’s very entangling. So you have to get that place which is not controlled by this and where the Supreme Lord can be found. So then that means that one has to go to the transcendental platform. There one can find the Lord. The Lord is everywhere, but He is situated on the transcendental platform.

So He’s interacting with this internal potency. So unless you can go there, how you’ll find the Lord? So going there means by consciousness. It’s not a matter of you have to go a certain distance because the Lord is everywhere. So it’s not a matter of going anywhere. But unless you deal with that platform of eternity, then you’re very far away, even though the Lord is very close.

Those who are free from false prestige, illusion and false association, who understand the eternal, who are done with material lust, who are free from the dualities of happiness and distress, and who, unbewildered, know how to surrender unto the Supreme Person attained to that eternal kingdom. So you have all these basic elements, but notice is that even though that’s all there, and then you know how to surrender. So these other qualities on their own are not going to do it. Those qualities, then one will be able to surrender nicely. So in other words, how much you develop those is how much you can surrender. It’s not, until I develop those, I can’t surrender. No, it’s as you’re developing, then you can surrender. But you have to know how to do it, otherwise one may not do it.

That supreme abode of mine is not illuminated by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world. So this concept of illuminating by electricity. Because we know the sun, moon and fire, it’s there, it remains. How long does lightning last? So not long enough to really light things up. So that means this concept is known.

But actually, if you’ve ever dealt with oil lamps and other things like that, why would you bother with electricity? The mood, everything is so much nicer.

People remember sitting around a campfire. They don’t remember sitting around a light bulb. If you’re a moth, yes, but if you’re not a moth, Wow, that was a great light bulb. Hey, did you see that light bulb? We flitted around all night.

Verses 1 to 6. Detachment from illusion and attainment of reality. In Bhagavad Gita 14.26 it is stated, One who engages in full devotional service. Unfit means also these qualities. It means you analyze them separately just so it’s very clear what they are. But you have to understand how they go together. You can analyze the cutting board nicely. You analyze the potato nicely. You analyze the knife nicely. You analyze your fingers nicely. Then you can combine that and get the result you want. But just because you know all those four aspects doesn’t mean anything’s happened.

So therefore we concentrate just on the detachment or just on freedom from illusion, all these things. Without surrendering to the Lord, we’ve missed the point. Because as it was mentioned in the last chapter, only through devotional service can you become free from the most. So that means these things have to be applied along with surrender to the Lord.

Does that make sense? So one wouldn’t get distracted by one of them and make, profess that is the key. No, that is an important element. But the combination being applied to surrender to the Lord, that’s what you’re looking for.

Does that make sense? Because then detachment doesn’t mean you’re detached from maya. It means because you’re supposed to become attached to Krishna, you can’t do that if you’re attached to maya. It means there’s only so much you can think of. So to that degree you’re thinking of maya, you won’t think of Krishna. To that degree you’re thinking of Krishna, you won’t think of maya.

Does that make sense? So therefore detachment is important because what are you trying to do? If detachment was the thing, then you’re becoming detached from the material world and you’re becoming detached from the spiritual. So what does that leave you?

Impersonal problem, at best. Most likely void.

You understand? So the point is not detachment as a goal. It’s a tool because we’re attached to the wrong thing. The kid’s attached to sitting in the backyard and eating mud. So the mother gives sandesh, then they get attached to that. So what happens? They give up the mud. That’s the point.

So the detachment is important because of its ability to make one surrender. But on its own, it’s not so important.

In Bhagavad Gita 14.26 it is stated, One who engages in full devotional service unfailing in all circumstances at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman. The question may be asked how a person does attain the impersonal bond by rendering devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, possessing a human form. In other words, how do you come to the Brahman platform as a devotee and you’re still in a body? Because generally the impersonal Brahman means there’s no body and you’re not a devotee.

So in other words, you have to have somebody to change the Brahman.

According to Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur, the Lord answers as follows, True, I am human in form, but I am the basis of Brahman, the supreme shelter of Brahman. The statement which functions as a sutra forms the beginning of Chapter 15. You said that a devotee surpassing the gunas, attains the status of Brahman. What is this material world made of? Where did the thread begin? Who is that jiva who surpasses samsara by devotion to you? You spoke of the jiva being qualified for Brahman, brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. What is that Brahman? And who are you, the basis of the Brahman? Anticipating these questions, the Lord now speaks. So these are the natural ones, if you analyze, what would come up. So then, Krsna, knowing this is the question, so He makes a statement that will give a basis for that, but also create the questions to come to light properly. Because if the question isn’t formulated, just like you see when we’re in the assembly, and the person who takes five minutes to ask his question actually doesn’t know what he wants to say. Unless it’s just an emotional kind of thing, or intellectually just like to taste the whole thing. But much of the time, if you can say, well, what’s this? Because it’s a question. What is the world made of? It’s one sentence. Where did the thread begin? Who is that jiva who surpasses samsara by devotion to you?

What is Brahman? Because the point is, a thesis can be said in one sentence. So that means the objection to that, or the doubt to that, can be said in one sentence.

Does that make sense? So the clearer it is, the better it works. Even in like prasna, in the astrological science. If you are not clear of your question, you can’t get a clear answer. So that’s why many of those who do prasna, they have you write down your question. Because then it clarifies it in your own mind. So then Krishna, anticipating these are the questions, then opens with this to establish it. Then it becomes clear. Then you can properly understand.

Krishna likens this world to an imperishable banyan tree with roots upwards and branches downwards, and whose leaves are the Vedic hymns. One who knows this tree is the knower of the Vedas. To be the knower of the Vedas means to know how to cut down this tree. So the leaves, you look at a tree, it’s the leaves that make the thing attractive, that make it nice. So the Vedas are actually establishing that. Those are on twigs. So those are connected to the sense objects. But the point is, if it’s done according to the Veda, to know the Lord, then the sense objects aren’t a distraction.

Sense object means the object to which the senses are engaged. But engaging the senses, that itself is inherently not the problem. Because you also engage the senses in Krishna’s service. But that’s not called sense gratification. So that’s why here it said the sense objects. That means the object to which the senses will be connected. Now it’s up to you whether that connection is devotional or material.

Or, in the place, is applying the element of spiritual.

Understand the difference between matter and spirit.

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur explains that asvattham can mean that which will not exist tomorrow. In the material world, there’s asvattham, not existing tomorrow, both for the devotees and the non -devotees. Because the devotees, they go back to Godhead. The non-devotees, then, it ends and then it starts all over again.

The circus closes for the night, but it opens again the next morning.

It won’t exist tomorrow for the devotees because they will become liberated tomorrow and attain the spiritual world. The tree won’t exist tomorrow for the non -devotees because everything they are attached to will vanish. Although their attachments will cease to exist tomorrow, the non-devotees’ material existence is eternal, as indicated by the word avyayam. Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport. The entanglement of this material world is compared here to a banyan tree. For one who is engaged in fruitive activities, there is no end to the banyan tree. He wanders from one branch to another, to another, to another. The tree of this material world has no end, and for one who is attached to this tree, there is no possibility of liberation. If one can understand this indestructible tree of illusion, then one can get out of it. The process of extrication should be understood. In the previous chapters, it has been explained that there are many processes by which to get out of the material entanglement. And up to the 13th chapter, we have seen that devotional service to the Supreme Lord is the best way. Now the basic principle of devotional service is detachment from material activities and attachment to the transcendental service of the Lord. The process of breaking the attachment to the material world is described in the beginning of this chapter. So it’s an unlimited tree. So if you want to try to do it through those qualities, remember, Krsna’s qualities are unlimited, those qualities are what are reflected in the material world. So then that means you’ll spend a long time going through quality by quality. And who’s to say that once you get to the end of all the qualities, which you can, it’s unlimited, others won’t spring up again. So you have to go to the root. And so that root is that forgetfulness of Krsna, not seeing our relationship with Krsna. So that means one thing has to be done. And if that’s done, the whole tree is destroyed.

So this is the difference between the direct process, or the quick process of devotional service, and the very slow process of material elevation simply through knowledge and activities.

The branches of this tree extend downward and upward, nourished by the modes of nature. The twigs are, in a sense, objects. This tree also has roots going down, which are bound to the fruit of actions. This tree seems to be unlimited, but with determination one must cut it down with the weapon of detachment. So detachment, but here also includes detachment from the material, but attachment to Krsna. Because it’s mentioned it has to be through devotional service, so that’s attachment to Krsna.

Thereafter one should seek that place from which having gone one never returns, and there surrender to Krsna, from whom everything comes. So Brahman being not the actual position, means that aspect of Brahman. In other words, there’s variety of Brahman. The Supreme Lord Brahman, spiritual energy Brahman, material energy Brahman, Jiva Brahman. So now, the Jiva Brahman, being sac-cid -ananda, has to situate himself in a place where sac-cid-ananda is working. Material world is not made of a sac -cid-ananda Brahman, so it won’t work there. Spiritual energy is. So by situating oneself there, that is the place one can not come back from. But just the brahmajyoti, that’s not going to do it, because that’s only sat, that’s only existence. So that’s not going to work as a situation, because it says that place. So Brahman is not, brahmajyoti is not that place.

The branches of the tree, the branches of the tree, the material bodies, are nourished by activities in the three gunas and are spread down and up depending on Jiva’s sinful or pious actions. The Jiva tries to advance by climbing up the branches of the tree, but since this tree is only a reflection of the advancement, it means drifting far from reality, right? So if we look at the tree, then the root, you know, will look up towards the leaves and the branches. So we get that, the Vedic hymns and all. So we will climb the tree, but unfortunately we’re going farther away from the root, which means farther away from the spiritual world.

Does that make sense? So where the one’s root is, the other root begins, right? The root of the real tree and the root of the illusory tree, they’re at the same place. So the point is, what is the cause of both? Attachment. You’re attached to the material, then you go on that tree. You’re attached to the spiritual, you go on that tree. So by becoming detached from the material world, then one can cultivate the relationship with the Lord.

Does that make sense?

The main root of this tree is the four-headed Brahma, and the secondary roots are the impressions caused by enjoyment of various sense objects. These secondary roots are the cause of man’s tendency to act according to dharma or adharma, and thus they become the reason for material bondage. So the four-headed Brahma is the main root. So, you know, from creation, what does he deal with?

The primary creation is in the cause of bondage, because that’s how Krishna interacts with his energy, right? It’s Brahma’s creation, which is dependent upon the desire of the living entity.

Yeah. Five or four?

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. That’s ignorance. Ego is, I think, four. Yeah, because you have the ignorance connected with passion, ignorance and goodness, and then polluted consciousness.

So then Brahma, he creates what we are attached to because of our attachments. So that’s why when the jiva first comes into the universe, it comes in as Brahma. So that becomes the root, right? Because one is Brahma. And then from that, one becomes distracted by this creation that one has created, right? People create things, and then they become distracted by them. Right? So this is what happens.

And then one comes here.

So when I make my way back to Godhead, are the other jivas going to be like, Hey, where have you been? And I’m like, don’t ask. Or does the material world register in the spiritual world? Point is, they know, but who cares? Just like in a city, there’s a garbage dump, right? You know it’s there, but it’s not like you think, Hey, let’s go to the garbage dump. You know, it’s like nobody bothers with it. You know? Does that make sense? Because material world is how you perceive the Lord’s energy. You know what I’m saying? It’s not specifically a location.

You understand? It becomes a location by perceiving the Lord’s energy that way you situate yourself. In other words, situation is by consciousness.

So it’s not that the residents of the spiritual world, when they’re in the Boma Leela, but they just see Krishna’s energy in connection with Krishna. So therefore, that’s called spiritual energy. Right? And the materialistic living entities see Krishna’s energy separate from Krishna. Understand? Because the Srupa Shakti is one energy, but it has these divisions. Just like you’re one person, but there is a difference between your head and your elbow. So there are these differences.

So then the two are there. So you’re actually observing one thing, but how you perceive it, that situates you.

Right? So that’s the real point. Because in the Boma Leela, you’re having both energies there at once. But the Vrajvasis only see the spiritual energy, and the materialists only see the material energy. The demons don’t walk in and go, Wow, Vraj, the transcendental realm. No, they just walk in and want to kill Krishna.

You know, Shankarachudda and Dvidigarilla, they thought, wow, check out the girls. So, like this. So they’re just seeing it as something they can enjoy. So the point is, as you see it as something to enjoy, then that aspect of the Srupa Shakti manifests, which is the material energy. And for those who don’t see it like that, then the internal potency.

Yes.

Yes.

It means it is, or it isn’t?

No, it’s made out of, it means, it’s uncommon. But at the same time, as the material manifestation is also there, this is the cinta -veda-veda-tattva, is that the two energies are there at once. That’s what the tattva-stha-shakti means. It can hold two of them there at one time. Because the jiva is spiritual, but it identifies with the material, so the two are held together.

So as soon as you stop identifying with it, then one becomes as good as internal potency. That’s why the iron and fire example is used. Very important to always… When the term absolute is used, one should always understand this is the definition. Don’t become distracted by other philosophical or etymological definitions. Eternal means that’s it. Because otherwise it says the entanglement is eternal. But then if it’s eternal, how does the living entity stop it and go back to Godhead? That means it wasn’t actually eternal. But it will be eternal until they switch their perception. And when you go back to Godhead, that will be eternal. But you can say there was a beginning.

So then how would that be eternal?

So the point is, you have to see it by situation. You’re established on the eternal platform or on the material platform.

Does that make sense? So they’re both there. Because you’re dealing with the same person. So you see the Lord’s energy as something to enjoy separately from the Lord. Then you’re dealing with the 24 material elements. But you see the Lord’s energy as something connected to the Lord for His satisfaction. Then you’re dealing with the spiritual energy.

Otherwise, how do you deal in the material world and get spiritual benefit?

You’re taking a flower. What’s it made out of? And you’re offering it to Krishna. But you’re getting spiritual benefit.

Because it’s actually one energy, but differently manifest.

Does that make sense?

Yeah? So the flower, the spiritual word, is made of? Satchitananda. Satchitananda. Yeah, but when Satchitananda reflects, what do you get? Goodness, passion and ignorance. So here it’s made out of goodness, passion and ignorance. There it’s made out of Satchitananda. Why does it look like they’re the same in the material world? Why does it look the same? When you look in the mirror, what do you see?

Why does it look the same?

Is that a complaint?

I look in the mirror. How come I don’t see an orangutan? You know, it’s like…

It’s the problem.

Reflection means it looks the same. Is it the same? Does the face in the mirror have the same substance?

I mean, of course, maybe we could ask it questions and get answers, but it’s not exactly that it’s doing the work.

You know what I’m saying?

Yes? So that’s the point, is that we’re focusing on the reflection, which means there is an origin.

That’s the point.

Right? Because this then defines. If the reflection is illusory, but that illusion has to come from somewhere. That’s because it’s coming from the reality that’s reflected. So it means the reflection actually is there, but taking that reflection as substance, that’s illusion.

Right? But to just say the illusion just came out of nowhere, then that doesn’t actually… That’s not scientific. It doesn’t explain anything. So that’s the problem with your voidistic philosophies, is that they don’t actually explain anything.

You know what I’m saying? So the reflection itself is not illusion. We take it as substance. If you take it as substance… If you know it’s a reflection, it’s not an illusion. But if you think it’s substance, if you think you are the reflection, then that’s a problem.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s the point.

Okay? Yes. So the problem is not the reflection. The problem is how we perceive the reflection. So now that’s what’s going through here, making that distinction. And then how to… Now in this chapter we’re getting at how to remove that. So it said, it’s by the modes of nature we’re bound. But by the modes of nature is what nourishes this tree of illusion. So how to remove the tree. So that’s this chapter.

Yes. Yes. So because we’re attached to it, that’s why we identify with it. Right? And if we’re attached, then we say, oh, that’s me. If we’re not attached, we know that’s the reflection.

Yes.

Yes. So it means the process is simple, but here it’s being analyzed so that you make sure you exactly do it. Because you may be doing it on one platform, but on another platform you’re not. So we’re in the temple, we’re at the arctic, or darshan, or hearing the class, and like this. We may be doing that. We see I’m serving a Krishna and all that, so we’re detached. We’re not under the modes. So we’re actually free. We’re advancing. But then, you know, morning program’s over, we go home, you know, walk in, you know, the kid’s left a mess on the floor, you know, the wife’s grumpy, you know, this and that, and then we’re caught up in the whole thing again.

You understand? Because we’re allowing the modes of nature. But that’s why it says he’s not disturbed by these things. You know, kids are kids. They leave things. You have to train them. So if he’s left stuff on the floor, that means he’s still not trained. So it just means more work. But we’re thinking, no, the material world should be perfect, so therefore, because I want to enjoy the interaction with the kids, you know, that would be perfect, so therefore the kid should never do those things, just on their own, inherently.

But that means I’m not accepting the nature of children. So I’m an illusion. So that’s why I suffer. And I want something from that. So that’s the mode of passion. So that’ll end in misery. So that combination of ignorance and misery is why I suffer.

Right? The wife’s annoyed. So if I think they should always be happy, that’s illusion. That’s not the nature. You know the nature, then it doesn’t bother you.

You understand? So it’s because of attachment, then you think, no, it should be like this. No. If you acknowledge, you know, no, this is the way it is.

You know what I’m saying? The guy’s, you know, in the car, everything’s going fine, he’s driving down the highway, you know, there’s no traffic, it’s a beautiful day, he’s got the roof open, you know, got his favorite music on, and he thinks like this, I’ll drive forever. And then at one point, then he looks down and the little meter says empty. You know, so then, you know, he has to pull over. Right? Now if he says, no, no, I just want to keep driving. Why is this? Why do I have to keep filling it up? Then why did he get a car? Right? You know, buy a trade ticket, you know, or get a bus ticket. Then you don’t have to fill it up. Right? You know. You don’t like filling the car, then, don’t buy one. You know. Hire someone else’s. They’ll take care of it.

You understand?

But then, it’s not yours.

Does that make sense? So, so that’s the whole point, is that, to make sure that we, in all circumstances, are applying because otherwise you say, yeah, great, fall out, but the point is, unless you apply it, you’re not getting the benefit. It means, definitely there’s benefit from hearing and understanding, but there’s more benefit from applying and realizing.

So we’re talking about realization. You understand? Okay. Yes.

Maybe.

So what’s the 1854 mean?

That’s because you’re looking at it like the chicken and the egg, or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I mean, it’s quite easy, right? Depends how big they are, right? How big’s the pin?

Does that make sense? You’re looking at it from the mundane, there’s this and that, but the point is, is the two are simultaneous. As you surrender, the modes are given up. As you give up the modes, you can surrender.

Right? In other words, that which comes directly and easily, that you focus on, those areas that don’t come so easy, then you look at them and start there with the detachment element. Right? Does that make sense? So that’s the whole point. If the attraction to Krishna takes prominence, you go with that, but if the attraction to material energy takes prominence, then you deal with that.

Does that make sense?

Yes? No?

These secondary roots, okay, the secondary roots are the impressions caused by enjoyment of various sense objects, right? So the primary is one’s identification with, as the controller and enjoyer, so therefore then the variety is there. Secondary impressions caused by interacting with what you, what is there. Right? And so then that, then these, then these cause your tendency towards Dharma or Adharma. And then that just binds you more.

The imperishable banyan tree should be cut down with the strong acts of detachment, sharpened by repeated discrimination. Srila Prabhupada describes both the process of detachment from illusion and attachment to a reality in his purport.

It is now clearly stated that the real form of this banyan tree cannot be understood in this material world. Since the root is upwards, the extension of the real tree is at the other end. When entangled with the material expansions of the tree, one cannot see how far the tree extends, nor can one see the beginning of this tree. Yet one has to find out the cause. One has to search out the origin of this tree, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Through the association of persons who are in knowledge of that Supreme Personality of Godhead, then by understanding one becomes gradually detached from this false reflection of reality. And by knowledge one can cut off the connection, actually become situated in the real tree.

So…

OK. If…

OK. If you’re situated somewhere and you fall into something, then the process of getting out is…

Yes, the opposite of that, no? So now, let us say, I don’t describe how you got in, but I describe how you get out.

So, have we also described how you got in? Yeah. Therefore, it’s very interesting that people can spend hours, days, weeks and years discussing this when it’s being given right here.

We didn’t, in other words, by the association of the devotees who know the Lord, you can get out. That means we didn’t take advantage of the association of devotees who knew the Lord, therefore we got in. Yes? I think maybe sometimes the confusion arises when the achiever is supposed to be full of knowledge, and then still… But he’s full of knowledge, but you still have to use it. The guy’s got a bank account full of money, but he’s not using it, so that… he’s called a miser. Right?

Like that. Because we have to… See, we take it that the situation is the cause. No, the situation is the environment in which action is done and results are gained. But we think if the situation is there, the results gained, right? Like we said, I buy this car, that’s it, I’ve made it in the world, or I have this house in this particular locality, or I have this suit, right? Or I have this watch or pen, or I have this particular position in the company. But those are simply situations in which activity is performed and results are gained. Right? And that means there’s relationship. So situation only defines how you can deal in relationships. It doesn’t define… It doesn’t mean that because it’s there, that is relationship. You still have to do something with it. Right? So it’s that mistake. Therefore we think, well, if he’s full of knowledge, how could he get there? Or there’s no lust and greed in the spiritual world. No, there’s not. But the point is the two are simultaneous. So therefore, if you manifest lust, you’re in the material world. You don’t manifest, you’re in the spiritual world. Right? You know what I’m saying? So unless you understand the process… So what’s the problem? They’re looking at it with mundane vision. So how will they understand? You can’t understand the absolute truth from the mundane platform. You understand, you know, this transcendental truth that’s given here in the cinta-bheda-bheda-tattva, where’s the question? So those who are arguing about this for hours means they’re looking at it from mundane perception. That’s it.

That makes sense. Very simple.

Retracing your steps, what’s that in terms of logical definition? Is it inferred logic, that you see backwards means?

No, because this is just the process is given, how to get out. Because for you it’s not important how you got in, it’s important how you get out. You know, and once you get out, then you can understand how you got in. In terms of logical presentation, you just reverse your thinking.

You just reverse the process. It means you follow the process that got you here, so you give up that process and that will put you back, because being situated in Krishna consciousness is the natural position of the living entity. So that’s natural. Here is not. So therefore you just have to remove this and you’ll be situated there.

Because that’s the natural. You have a covering. This means the gold ring has dropped in the mud. Now it doesn’t mean that the gold ring has transformed. No, it’s just covered. So all we have to do is wash off the covering.

Right? So in other words, the ring was exposed to the mud. That’s why it’s covered. We remove the mud, it’s not exposed to it anymore.

Right? So by associating with it, it’s covered. By giving up that association, it’s not covered.

It says, by understanding, one becomes gradually detached from this false reflection of reality. Right? And by knowledge, one can cut off the connection and actually become situated in the real tree. Right? So understanding means we’ve heard. Knowledge means we’ve applied. Right? So by understanding, we start to look and we get, we start to become detached. But it’s by applying that knowledge that gives that understanding, then we actually can become free. Right? So in other words, the understanding is simply a situation. So again, it has to be applied. Right? Situation’s not enough. Situation’s what you function in. Right? Same time you can’t do something except in a situation.

Right? So that’s the point. But the activity is more important.

Right? So that means the application of the knowledge is more important than the knowledge. Right? But you can’t apply it unless you have it.

Right?

The word asanga is very important in this connection because the attachment for sense enjoyment and lording it over the material nature is very strong. Therefore, one must learn detachment by discussion of spiritual science based on authoritative scriptures. Because otherwise, you can discuss detachment, but unless it’s based on authoritative scriptures, it won’t actually be very useful. Right? Because people have their idea of what detachment is.

But that’s not actually… In other words, not engaging the senses, you could say, is detachment.

But actually, the point is the sense objects belong to Krishna anyway. So just because you didn’t engage them doesn’t actually mean you’re detached. Right? Because then there’s the idea that I’m not engaging my senses. So that I’m the controller and therefore I’ll enjoy that position. So it’s a matter of engaging them in Krishna’s service. So either one’s in a situation where engagement of the senses in a particular way, that’s the way to engage them. Or it may be that that engagement is not very useful and that there’s other engagements for the senses. Right? So in other words, the grihastha is engaging the senses and the brahmacharya is engaging the senses. So engagement of the senses is going on, but just what’s favorable and what’s not, that’s the situation.

Right?

Does that make sense? So it’s a matter of what is done. I have a can of… What is it? 40-20 mobile. Right? Now I’m standing in front of a pot of soup. Is it useful? No. Now if I’m standing in front of a car… More. Yes. Okay? So, the point is, is not that the thing’s not useful, it’s just how it’s applied.

So the brahmacharyas have one way of applying grihasthaism and another.

So detachment means actual positive engagement. But, if one is attached to an engagement that’s not useful, therefore the element of detachment through knowledge and practice must be applied. Right? And more important is to engage the senses. That’s what you’re trying to get to. So only if… You can’t engage the senses because they’re distracted by something else. That’s focused on in the mood of detachment. Right? So that you can engage the senses properly.

That make sense? So, in other words, if we take detachment on its own, what’s the motive for that? Because then detachment stands alone. Where does the quality of detachment come from?

Krishna. Right? It’s Krishna’s quality. Which is then, through the effulgence of the Brahman, which is the, you know, combined, glory of Krishna’s unlimited qualities, that is present in the material world. So if we see detachment separate from Krishna, that’s atheistic. So, that the quality stands on its own is actually atheistic. But we see a connection with the Lord, that’s theistic. So therefore it’s a connection with the Lord, that’s understanding. And now knowledge means how to apply that connection of that detachment in the Lord’s service.

Duty.

Duty is there because that keeps one, that creates regulation because through regulation one actually uses intelligence because there’s things happen and all that, so you must discriminate. Right? Irregulation means it’s just whatever you feel like. So it becomes much harder to actually analyze because you’re not using intelligence, you’re using the mind. Right? You understand? But people don’t understand is that the intelligence is simply discriminating what is there in the field and how to work with the field. But that enthusiasm to work with the field and what one wants to gain is still coming from the mind. So there’s this mistake made by, you know, it’s a common mistake that if it’s according to intelligence and regulation, then it can’t be, you can’t find happiness there. Right? Does that make sense? You know, if the situation is arranged, you know, like that, like a marriage or this or that, it can’t actually be, because it has to be spontaneous coming from the mind and all this and that. But the point is, is the mind still has to use the intelligence.

You know what I’m saying? The guy did, you know, was able to discriminate the girl from the lamppost, you know, therefore he talked to the right person. Or, you know, that little lamppost. You know, it’s not going to work very good, you know. So, intelligence was used, but the promise was the mind. Right? So the point is, the Vedic system is, is you engage the, the, the intelligence, you know, and have a regulated existence. And then from dealing with that through practice, then the mind is able to then become spontaneous. But then it’s in a scientific environment, so you can do scientific things with it. You know, so the, what you can get is much greater. You know what I’m saying? It’s more developed.

Yeah, I mean, that’s, I mean, I don’t, it’s not necessary, it means, that’s what’s doing is that Krishna consciousness is what’s the, you know, balance of what the brain’s supposed to be used for. But, but it’s not, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t, you, I wouldn’t place our dependence on the appreciation of the point on the scientific element of one-tenth of your brain is being used. Like that. And they’re not necessarily saying if that’s everybody. You know. Yes? I think that’s also like, you’re not using every room of your house at once. I mean, you’re not using your language center at the same time you’re using your mathematics skills depending on what you’re doing. Yeah, that’s also, that’s a very interesting point. In other words, you only work with one -tenth at a time. Not that you don’t work with the whole brain, but you only work with one-tenth at a time. But, the point is Krishna consciousness makes it so that more can be worked with. Because that’s why there’s a limit, prema is where the end of what this particular body can handle. Because, in this body you deal with one sense at a time. But in the spiritual body you can deal with all of them at once. So the material body can’t handle that.

So, that’s, Visvanath describes it. That’s why when one comes to prema, then one leaves the body. If one is going through bhava sadhana while one’s still in the body. Right? Does that make sense?

Therefore, one must learn detachment by discussion of spiritual science based on authoritative scriptures. And one must hear from persons who are actually in knowledge.

As a result of such discussion in the association of devotees, one comes to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, the first thing one must do is surrender to Him, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna is the original root from which everything has emanated, from whom everything is emanated. To gain favor of that Personality of Godhead, one has only to surrender. And this is the result of performing devotional service by hearing, chanting, etc.

In verse 5, the Lord describes the process of surrender and the qualification of the perfect devotees.

Those who are free from false prestige, delusion, and false association, who understand the eternal and are done with material lusts. So, these are groups. False prestige, delusion, and false association because false prestige can only be applied in false association.

You know, that’s there. And then, delusion is because it’s much greater than your sphere of false prestige.

You know, there’s a lot more happening than just that. But that’s your conditioning. That’s what you’re looking for. So, you have that. So, you figure that’s perfection. But there’s other people that wouldn’t want to be in the position you’re in and have a whole other idea of, you know, false prestige.

Like that.

And then, next group, understand the eternal and are done with material lusts.

And who are, who, okay, who are free from the dualities of happiness and distress and are not bewildered. So, if you know what the eternal is, then, that way, then it won’t be. One can get rid of the bewilderment. One can get rid of the duality. Because eternal means it’s always there and these are variations within it, varieties within it. Not that, when things are good, it’ll be like that forever. When things are bad, it’ll be like this forever. No, but the point is eternal is another thing. And then, these are variations within it. And when it’s done with material lust, means, it’s not that it will run out. You just have to be finished with it. Right? It’s not, it’s not going to go away. It’s just there. Right? You’re done with it.

Does that make sense? So, let’s see.

Know how to surrender unto the Supreme Person attained to Krishna’s abode. Right? So then, and then you have to know this process of surrender. So that means you have to know who you are and who the Lord is. Right? And how to engage the field in the Lord’s service.

Srila Prabhupada writes, The surrendering process is described here very nicely. The first qualification is that one should not be deluded by pride.

Because the conditioned soul is puffed up, thinking himself the Lord of material nature. It’s very difficult for him to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His false pride means you think you’re the Lord of material nature. Right? You’re Lord of… You’re… You’re in the environment of being very successful in connection with one quality of Krishna. There’s unlimited qualities. And so this way, being unlimited, then unlimited jivas can be puffed up about their false prestige. Right? Because they’ll connect themselves with the various qualities. And because each quality is unlimited in itself, that means unlimited jivas can be connected to that one quality and still think they’re the Lord of everything.

Right? Does that make sense? Because it’s Krishna. Therefore, it’s everything. So when you connect yourself to that quality successfully, then you feel, you know, the element of eternity and lordship. But that eternity and lordship’s not yours, it’s the Lord’s.

You know what I’m saying? You know, you’re in your neighbor’s house, it’s a big mansion, he’s got all the servants, he’s sitting there hoarding them around. You know, you feel pretty good. But the problem is it’s not yours. You know, that’s the problem.

One should not, one should know by the cultivation of real knowledge that he is not Lord of material nature. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the Lord. When one is free from delusion caused by pride, he can begin the process of surrender. One has to get out of this false notion that human society is the proprietor of this world. And when one has an understanding of things as they are, he becomes free from all dual conceptions such as happiness and distress, pleasure and pain. You have some, let’s say, so the human life is meant to cooperate in the Lord’s creation. Right? So if you think the creation is here for us to enjoy, then we’re not going to cooperate because we take ourselves as the Lord. But if we see we’re not Lord, the Lord is Lord, then that makes a difference. Just like a parent, if they think that my child is for my enjoyment, my, you know, like that, they’re going to deal with their child differently than if they think I am the protector of this child. There is a higher process at work here. There’s a greater, you know, order. And so I am being given the opportunity to take care of this child within the, you know, the concept of the universal, you know, how you say, balance, or whatever it is. Right? Does that make sense? There will be very much of a difference how one approaches it. Because that means then I have to do certain things with the kid. And the other is I do what I want with the kid.

Does that make sense? In China, you know, traditionally parenting, they raise the children for the family or for the forefathers. Yes. So there’s something that there’s some higher, so, but the point is, is who is before the forefathers? Where did the forefathers come from? They came from the sky. and where did the sky come from? The sky is ultimate. Okay, but then we know that the sky comes from Krishna. Right? So that means then going like that, you should raise the children for Krishna. That’s the same principle. Right? It’s progressive. So that’s why there’s a stronger family concept because of that. Because you’re cooperating for some higher purpose. Right? But if you’re, if you’re there only for yourself and others are cooperating with you, therefore, you’re inclined to be there. Right? Then it makes for a very different dynamic.

Does that make sense?

That’s why now, now in China, you know, every child has become little king. The parents think their children is all in all. Yes, and so then they’ll slowly see their culture fall apart.

But generally they’re quite, well, it depends. In China, it might fall apart. Yeah, it depends. Just they have to be very careful. But the point is, is the only way to actually solve it is connecting it to Krishna. Because all, the qualities are all coming from Krishna, so the only way that they’ll be properly appreciated and applied is in connection to Him. Otherwise, there’s always going to be some problem.

Right? You know what I’m saying? In other words, you’re applying it, raising them to please the forefathers, but the problem is, is that they are an individual that has to be engaged in a way that they also see their connection.

You know what I’m saying? So if that’s not seen, then still, one will have gone through the motions and all that, but they won’t appreciate it. And so then, what are they going to do? They’re going to reject.

Right? Does that make sense? So then, that’s why it’s not enough that the situation is there or the rule is applied. It has to be applied to the individual. That’s time, place and circumstance.

Is that OK?

Yes? Questioner 2 Could you explain what are our qualities? What are the qualities of the soul? You mentioned that one becomes proud by identifying the qualities of the Lord and that means we have these qualities. Nectar of Devotion gives the 64 qualities. So, 50, the first 50, those, then the Jivas also share, but they may be manifest or not depending upon their situation.

But, so, those then are there. Krishna’s, you know, has those 50 in unlimited or we have it in very small plus Krishna has beyond.

So then, those are the qualities. So, it’s the same thing but we see it separate from the Lord. That’s the problem. We think, we, that is, we are this, we are this, you know. You know, the guy’s developed his big company, so he is the company. So when you come in and buy him out and take all his company, then, you know, you’ve attacked him. You know, he’s lost himself. So, you’re like this, so that’s the problem.

You know, because we’re dependent, so we’ll think that that’s there. So we think the Supreme Lord is also, you know, if we look at it mundanely, we’ll think he’s there. So therefore, he’s made up of all these parts and parcels. So that means without all that, he’s not complete. Because we’re not complete without all these things. Right? Unless we’re connected to the field, we’re not complete. But he is the field.

Right? So he’s independent.

Does that make sense? He is existence, so he doesn’t, he’s not dependent on us for his existence, but we are. So we apply the mundane, it means, in other words, the mundane vision means we apply our perception, you know, based on our own nature. And we say that God has the same nature. So that’s, that’s where, and then at the same time as we try to take his position. So we think he has our nature, but we are him. Right? You know, so it’s a bit of a, bit of a mix up. So you just kind of switch the two around. You know, it’s a common thing, just like I, you know, mentioned before as if you, if you say, what are the, what are the duties of women? Then all the men raise their hands. Right? They all know what to do. So what are the duties of men? Hands go down. Yeah, the hands go down. Yeah, it’s like that. So like that. So we know what everybody else should be doing, we don’t know we’re supposed to do.

Is that okay?

One has to get out of this false notion that human society is the proprietor of this world. And, and when one has an understanding of things as they are, he becomes free from all dual conceptions. This is happiness and distress, pleasure and pain. So, when one understands the field and the knower of the field, then one can be freed from duality.

If he becomes full in knowledge, then it is possible for him to surrender the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So, we have the element of surrender, meaning that you begin the process and you try to connect yourself with Krishna. And then there’s the surrender where, you know, there’s no material considerations anymore and it’s a complete. You understand? So both of them are.

Does that make sense?

You know, it’s like when you, you know, first go to school, then you have, you know, you can say, this is education. Right? But actually, it’s when they finish school, then you can say that it’s been accomplished.

Does that make sense?

Srila Baladeva Diyabhushan comments on this verse as follows, What type of people attain the goal having surrendered to the Lord? They should be without pride nirmana, which is generated by respectful treatment of others. So, therefore, that’s so important.

They should be free of absorption of what is false nirmoha. Right? In other words, if you have respect for others, then you can actually see things as they are. Otherwise, you’ll think, by pride, no, everybody should deal like this and be like this. The one I understand, no. You know, you have respect for them as an individual. They’re the same soul. Right? They have the same qualities.

Does that make sense? So then, then one will be able to become free from false conception.

They should be free of affection for wife and others. Jita-saṅga-doṣa. So that means just the whole material existence. Right? Doesn’t mean that one doesn’t work with or perform the duties. But that they are that attachment to them means attachment that’s separate from Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, where is the respect, where is the false, then the, the false absorption.

Yes. So the affection that is mentioned here, that will come indirectly through the affection of Kṛṣṇa. Yes. In other words, you see in relation to Kṛṣṇa and you’re cooperating together in serving Kṛṣṇa and all that. And so there’s affection between the souls. But false, this false free affection for wife and others means it’s one field of action is attached to another field. But that’s dead matter is attached to dead matter. So it’s not direct. You are identifying with the material energy and you’re seeing them in connection with material energy. But material energy only has meaning because there’s a soul there. So that means you’re going through all those stages. So if anything changes in the material energy then the relationship changes. But if you don’t identify with that then you’re dealing from soul to soul. And the basis of interaction is that field of activity.

So most, many take this that that means oh then there’ll be no relationship, it’ll be dry and that’s if you’re an impersonalist. Yes. But if you’re Vaiṣṇava then no.

Right? Because the impersonalist means if I have no attachment therefore then nothing is done. Because the only reason I do work is because of attachment. I give up attachment there’s no work. But actually we can see it’s fruitively based.

Right? But then Vedic is even if you’re not attached you perform your duties. So therefore the interaction will go on. And they say but then it’s dry. But then the point is in a drama if it’s well done is it dry? No. But it’s not real.

You understand?

Because you’re doing your duties properly. So the experience will be gained.

You know what I’m saying? If I hit you over the head with a bat, right, it doesn’t matter if I’m doing it with full emotion and attention or I’m doing it detached it gets the same result. Yes. If you do it really well how do you avoid being bewildered by the character? How do you become bewildered? By understanding the principles of acting as opposed of Bharat Muni as opposed to Stanislavski.

Right? In other words this mentality means you have a particular emotion and it has a particular symptoms. So to display that emotion I have to display those symptoms. Not that I have to become that character. You know what I’m saying? Because otherwise I have to become King Lear. There’s a lot of other people other than King Lear who were distressed at problems with the family and relatives. You know what I’m saying? So it’s a principle. You understand that principle then it works. It’s a generic thing.

Right? While the others you have to become Lear. You have to do that. Lead up on Lear. What did he do? What did he eat for breakfast? You know. Because you know so that’s that’s direction according to you know bodily conscious truths. But it should be the directives of Brahman. So it’s that you’re dealing with you know these particular emotions and that which originate in the Lord. So they have their natural forms. So you have to present that.

Does that make sense?

But the point is everything’s a drama. We’re not these bodies anyway so what we’re doing anyway is a drama. Just we are identifying with it therefore it seems real.

But the point is what we’re dealing with is actually only functioning because of its connection to Krishna.

But not seeing that we’re in illusion and in distress. You see its connection to Krishna. It doesn’t change the duties.

Right? But it changes our understanding.

Does that make sense? And so therefore the same duties you’re elevated. But it doesn’t change how you deal.

Does that make sense?

Right? It means another let’s say the baby is there and so they’re manifesting the quality of cuteness. Right? Now you can be attached to that and think it’s that body that’s creating that or you can understand it’s Krishna’s quality that’s manifesting through this situation.

You know what I’m saying? But in any case even if you’re not attached they’re still cute. But it’s just you’re not attached to that cuteness separate from Krishna thinking that the body itself is generating it.

No, it’s coming from Krishna. Krishna arranges that. Someone can appreciate that and interact with it but it’s not based on illusion. It’s based on knowledge.

Can means, yes of course knowledge is always important but said the key comes back to this thing of being without pride. Right? And generated by respectful treatment of others so therefore you deal with the child nicely because you respect towards them. Right? In other words there’s a Jiva there they deserve respect and they’re manifesting qualities of Krishna which deserve respect. And so therefore you’ll deal nicely.

In other words you interact with Krishna and so whatever quality is manifest that’s what you interact with. You know, it’s just like in the spiritual world they want to see Krishna in a particular way. You know, as a friend as a lover as a child like this.

Does that make sense? So here in the material world everyone’s looking for Krishna but they don’t know it’s Krishna so they think it’s in the dead matter so there’s a particular aspect of dead matter they want to see Krishna in. Right? That make sense? So here then they want to see that in the child. Right? But they think the child is separate from the Lord that energy is separate the whole process is separate. So that’s the illusion. So the point is is so that quality is there so you interact with it. Because the point is is the Jiva interacts with Krishna.

You know what I’m saying? So whatever it is so we’re going to here it’s going to be manifest according to our conditioned state. Spiritual world will be manifest according to our constitutional state.

Does that make sense? Principle is the same.

Does that make sense?

They should daily consider the nature of their own Atma and Paramatma Adhyatmanitya.

Because that before was the field and now the knower of the field. They should be tolerant to opposites vimukta such as heat and cold which are the causes of dualities of happiness and distress. Heat and cold are going to come. So these things are there. Then you’re going to apply on that this is nice this is not nice. Right? Does that make sense?

They should be knowledgeable of the process of surrender. Amudha.

Verse six answers the question what is the nature of that place where the surrendered soul resides. That abode is not illuminated by sun or moon nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it will never return to this world.

So this is Madhvacharya that makes the point that liberation means obtaining that abode. Right? So you can only obtain that abode through devotion. The one situated in devotion can then be situated in that abode therefore they never come back. But if they’re not it’s just a matter of you’re not attached to the material energy but you don’t know anything else other than that. Because the Brahman that you actually know are the qualities of the Lord manifest through the material energy.

So maybe you separate you were able to separate off the material manifestation through which those qualities manifest. But you’re unfortunately unable to distinguish the qualities and everything. It means you appreciate qualities but you say ultimately there’s no difference. There is no difference in that. It’s all Krishna. But there is actually a difference in one quality and another. Otherwise why is it that you like detachment the what is gained from that.

That attachment that rules and regulations the following the Veda the particular sattvic lifestyle these are all qualities of Krishna. So they’re appreciating that. But then they’ll say that there’s no difference. It means they can’t be distinguished.

So what what what in the cosmic creation is undistinguished.

Krishna is distinguishable. Spiritual energy.

Material energy is manifested.

Jivas are distinguishable. So what thing is undistinguishable?

That’s yeah. Qualities are there. You could say that but they’re thinking that. But they actually don’t know what Brahman is because it’s the Lord’s qualities. So it is a manifestation of Brahman.

But which Brahman?

Pradhan. So that’s why they never get beyond the material world because this idea that there’s no distinguishing no nothing that’s only in Pradhan. Otherwise everything else is full of variety.

So that’s what they want. That’s where they stay.

Who is that Jiva? Who crossing samsara by devotion to the Lord attains that abode? So verses 7-11 transmigration of the soul.

So this must be why that name of that story is so successful because it deals with these particular persons.

Yes.

The living entities in this conditioned world are my eternal fragmental parts.

Due to conditioned life they are struggling very hard with the six senses which include the mind.

The living entity in this in the material world carries his different conceptions of life from one body to another as the air carries aromas.

Thus he takes one kind of body and again quits it to take another. The living entity thus takes another gross body thus taking another gross body attains a certain type of ear, eye, tongue, nose and sense of touch which are grouped about the mind. He thus enjoys a particular set of sense objects. Because sense objects go back means sense objects are separate but the point is is your dealing with them is based on your senses. That’s why then you can say the six senses. Right? The five senses and the mind. Because the mind will describe define what you’re interested in. Right? So that will be the sense object itself. Those five kinds of sense objects. And the how you say the principle of their interaction. Right? Seeing, touching, smelling the Tanmatras. So technically that way you get sixteen. But you can define them just as six because the others are automatically included. Or you can just say the mind because it includes the other fifteen. That’s why sometimes when you’re getting definitions of the whole world you get you know different amounts.

Right? Before we said the what do you call it? The field and the knower of the field. So you’re getting just two. Right? But the field means twenty-four elements. Right? And then the knower of the field means two. Two of the Jiva and the Lord.

So this way then depending on how it is I think Brahma Samhita lists nine. Right? Because you have earth, water, fire, air, ether mind, intelligence and false ego. And then I’m not sure what the they do it that way. Or if they’re taking the senses. No, they’re taking the Mahabhutas the five senses and the mind. Because Mahabhutas everything is made out of. Right? Mind includes technically intelligence and false ego. They’re just smaller parts of the mind. Right? But they’re studied separately because through that then one can adjust things. Right? So the mind includes everything else.

Yes? So does all the forms of life manifest all the senses? Not necessarily. That’s why you have superior and inferior.

Yes? Text number seven. You’re dealing with six senses.

Is it means five senses or against senses?

Either way. You want to engage your senses so you’re struggling to get it engaged. Or you don’t want to engage so you’re struggling not to engage it. In any case it’s a problem. Right?

The foolish cannot understand how a living entity can quit his body nor can they understand what sort of body he enjoys under the spell of the modes of nature. But one whose eyes are trained in knowledge can see all this. The endeavoring transcendentalists who are situated in self -realization can see all this clearly. But those whose minds are not developed and who are not situated in self-realization cannot see what is taking place though they may try. So it’s interesting. Are not developed.

Achetasa having undeveloped minds. It’s a phrase that would have been used you know much more it’s a bit more archaic now. You know it’s undeveloped mind or undeveloped like this. Just meaning that it exists there but it’s not properly engaged.

It’s not maturely engaged.

We also hear that the intelligence can be covered. Is that a different way of explaining more of the same? Means when the mind is prominent then that means the intelligence is covered. Right? So it’s not so it’s a principle. When the mind takes prominence the intelligence is covered. When the intelligence takes prominence then the mind is restricted because then you have choices. You have to make them. There has to be reasons for it. Right? Like that.

The living entities are Krishna’s eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life they are struggling with six senses including the mind. The living entity is eternally sanatana fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. When he serves the eternal energy of the Lord he’s bound up by the false ego.

And the mind is the chief agent which is driving him in the material existence. Right? Because that creates your desire. That creates the attachment. Attachment creates endeavor. Endeavor creates results. Which means if it’s material one is bound to one.

When he is liberated he revives his original spiritual body and enjoys association with the Supreme Lord in the spiritual sky. Thus verse seven defeats the idea that the soul assumes individuality in his conditional life and becomes one with the Supreme Lord in his liberated state. So he’s… Krishna’s always pointing out that that’s always going to go on. Otherwise what’s the big deal? It’s like if the jiva doesn’t exist it’s an illusion. The material world is an illusion. The suffering is going through his illusion. Why even bother? What does it matter?

Right? Does that make sense?

Is there a need? You’re driving down the highway on a hot day. Is there a need to you know go out on the highway and explain to you know all the how you say you know the heat ripples that aren’t actually there that you know there’s a problem. You know that water on the highway. Do we have to go out and explain to the water on the highway that actually doesn’t exist?

You know what I’m saying?

Like that. Why would one bother? So why all this great endeavor if there’s not meaning that the living entity is going to exist in the spiritual in the spiritual world?

The living entity carries his conceptions of life from one body to another as the air carries aromas. Thus taking another body every time he attains particular types of senses which are grouped around the mind and this way enjoys particular sense of sense objects. So the mind has a particular attachment therefore it develops particular kinds of tastes. You endeavor for them with your senses but if they’re not if those senses don’t match then in the next life those desires are carried just like the fragrance into the next body and so then the senses will group around that the mind according to this what is desired.

So that’s why you get those particular senses. So if you take the senses engage them in the Lord’s service then the mind isn’t connected to Krishna the senses are connected to Krishna so one gets a spiritual form but material it’ll just go on what you’re thinking of now. So if one has a human form one uses it in a human way then one still obtains human form. But if one uses it in an animalistic way then the human senses aren’t actually good at that. How good are they? So then by taking the form of that animal then the mind actually can express what it wants. So that’s the science.

Verses 10 to 11 Krishna explains why people cannot see this process of transmigration.

The foolish cannot understand how a living entity transmigrates from one body to another under the spell of the modes of nature. The self-realized can see this. Those whose minds are not developed and who are not self-realized cannot see even if they try to. Right?

Foolish means that one is unable to actually see things as they are. That there is the soul and there is the field of activities. And the soul is not connected. He identifies with it therefore it becomes implicated but he’s not actually connected. Material energy takes care of itself. All transformations material energy does it herself. That’s why she’s called material cause. Because she actually makes it happen. But it only happens because the Lord sanctions it. And that potency to do it is given to her by Him. Right? So He’s given that and then she goes on doing her work. He doesn’t have to you know what I’m saying each time be involved in how she has the potency she does it. But the jiva because he identifies with it thinks I’m doing this. So that’s why he’s the material I mean he’s the operational cause. But the actual only operation is the desire. Everything else is done by the modes of nature. But we’ll think we did it.

So they’re unable to because of false ego unable to understand this. You give up the false ego then one can start to understand this. So that’s why it’s foolish. You’re proud. That’s foolish.

Persons who are deluded by strong material desires lose all power to understand and experience their own spiritual existence.

Because existence you know you can either be on one or the other. So if you’re fully absorbed in the material where’s the space for the spiritual? If you’re fully absorbed in the spiritual where’s the space for the material? Right? So as one tries to focus you know by giving up that false ego identifying oneself as servant of Krishna then one starts to situate oneself on the transcendental platform. Right? And then on that one can see more. And then gradually gradually.

The remedy for this disease is acquiring jnana cakshusha the eyes of knowledge. Srila Prabhupada writes those who have developed spiritual knowledge however can see that the spirit is different from the body and is changing its body and enjoying it in different ways.

A person in such knowledge can understand how the conditioned living entity is suffering in this material existence. Therefore those who are highly developed in Krishna consciousness try their best to give this knowledge to the people in general. For their conditional life is very much troublesome. So the suffering is coming because of not having this understanding. Not acting. So then Krishna conscious those who have developed in Krishna consciousness they try to give this to others. That’s the endeavor. So that’s the preaching.

Verses 12 to 15 Krishna is the maintainer of everybody. He is the knower of the Vedas and the compiler of Vedanta.

The splendor of the sun which dissipates the darkness of this whole world comes from me. And the splendor of the moon and the splendor of fire are also from me.

I enter into each planet and by my energy they stay in orbit. I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all vegetables.

I am the fire of digestion in the bodies of all living entities. I join with the life of air of life outgoing and incoming to digest the four kinds of foodstuffs.

I am seated in everyone’s heart and from me come remembrance knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas I am to be known. I am the compiler of Vedanta and I am the knower of the Vedas.

The Lord explains that He alone provides the material enjoyment for the Jivas. Verses 12 to 14 And He alone awards liberation for those who desire freedom from the material world. Verse 15 The splendor of the sun, moon and fire come from Krishna. Otherwise, it’s dead matter. So why is it so interesting? Because it’s then Krishna’s Krishna’s entity.

So, in Taoism, we say that Tao is in the stool and the urine. Yeah. So can we say Krishna is also in the stool and the urine?

So what aspect are you looking at in stool and urine?

That means, you know, means, you need to understand is how are they in? Means if you’re taking that, you know, you have the stone and Tao is in the stone, but that means still doesn’t, the stone is still separate from Tao.

You understand? There’s Tao and then there’s the stone but then there’s the combination.

So it’s stoneness is there because of the Tao. You understand? But the elements that the stone are made of is made up of a material energy. Right? So a particular combination of earth, wire, fire, air and ether make up the form of this stone. But that there is the concept of stone that’s coming from the Tao and that it functions as stone that’s coming from the Tao. So the two, two things. Right? But the stone is dependent upon the Tao and not the Tao and the stone.

You understand? So you understand the point? So the point is, is yes, you can find there but, you know, if that’s your, you know, like a pig, they would meditate on stools. So therefore, you know, for them, seeing, you know, the Tao and stool would be very uplifting for them.

You understand?

You understand? So, means you could do that. Why take that one? Why not take the Tao is also there in your mother-in-law?

Why take stool in urine? Why not take that?

Yes.

But how do they get their quality?

You understand? If there’s light, there’s also darkness. But darkness is dependent upon light. So there’s, you know, nice things, but then that means there’s also not nice things. Nice things are just the absence of nice. Not nice is just the absence of nice.

You understand?

You understand? In other words, one should be looking at the solution here of how Tao is pervading rather than the pleasure of the intellectual manipulation that one has found seeming an exception to the point being made that’s in such a strange way that obviously it’s going to throw off the proper line of thought. And then, therefore, because you found a weakness, that puts you in the superior position. You understand? That attachment you have to give up if you want to understand these things.

Does that make sense?

Yes, though dirtiness is dependent upon cleanliness.

So God is the supreme pure, so that means then dirtiness comes from that. That’s just the backside of the Lord.

So, because we are Bahir Mukh, means we’re not, we’re outside the face, we’re looking at the back. So that’s why our absorption in stool is so much an attraction.

Does that make sense?

Does that make sense?

But liberated, what does liberated mean? And when we say uttamadakari, how do we define that? You know what I’m saying? So you’re saying only the uttamadakari is liberated. But the point is, let us say the man is in jail and then he’s let out of jail. Is he liberated? He has been. So, they also have to define liberation because liberation means being situated in Krishna consciousness. But generally when we say only the uttamadakari is liberated because we’re attached to liberation and we’re attached to that it’s a very difficult thing and very elevated thing because it’s the ultimate goal. So therefore we’re going to make that position. But the point is, the soul is liberated. Every soul is liberated. The thing is, is because of their identifying the material nature they become conditioned and therefore identify with that body. But the soul itself is liberated. So, for us liberation is not a big thing. So we don’t put an emphasis on only the uttamadakari is liberated. Who cares?

You know what I’m saying? It’s not this was Chapala what is this?

Yeah, Gopal Chapala’s problem is that it had been said that just Nama Bas makes you liberated. So, someone is sitting and they’re chanting their japa even if it’s in Nama Bas they’re liberated. Because on what platform are they interacting? How are the senses interacting with them? How are they engaged with the material energy? They’re not. So they’re liberated. But the problem is is then they may not their consciousness they may not understand this. And so, therefore, they again continue dealing with the material energy as they were before. You know what I’m saying? But, there has been effect of the chanting so they’re more purified. So there’s more of an opportunity that they may deal with it more properly. But, in any case, they identify with their condition so they’re going to deal with it, interact based on that identity.

You know what I’m saying?

The splendor of the sun Oh, okay. The planets stay in their orbits because Krishna has entered into them. He becomes the moon and grows the vegetables. He is the fire of digestion that keeps the air of life balanced to digest foodstuff. So it’s the life airs that balance.

Conditioned soul depends on Krishna for providing the basic necessities of life. So it’s not all this and that. It’s a matter of the life airs are balanced. Then digestion works. If it’s not, it doesn’t.

So that’s the point. Eating this and eating that and doing this and that, unless they’re balancing the life airs, they’re not going to work. And that balance is defined by the Lord. Right? So then, does that make sense? So we don’t have to make up our own processes for it.

Conditioned soul depends on Krishna for providing the basic necessities of life. The light of the sun and the fire destroy darkness and lethargy for the jiva. The light of the moon dissipates heat and pain and nourishes all plants. Thus, the Lord provides the enthusiasm for creative work and proper environment for recreation. Becoming the fire of digestion, He takes shelter within all beings and digests the four kinds of foods supplied by Him. So health is dependent upon digestion. Right? And the field of activities is the body. Right? So just by mentioning these few things, He’s actually mentioned everything. If there’s no light, you can’t do anything. Right? Fire creates the energy. Most everything that we work with is fire. Right? Does that make sense? All of our machineries and everything, they’re all basically working on fire. You know? Very, very little other things. We may work on something, but, you know, how you say, you have the fire and that pushes on. The air and that pushes on. You know, but that’s how the body works. Right? Does that make sense? So it’s like, the thought is there, that pushes on and the life air, the life air pushes and the fire, and it gets the work done. You know? Does that make sense? So it’s all connected. He is in everyone’s heart and from Him come remembrance, knowledge, and forgetfulness. He is the object of all the Vedas. He compiled Vedanta and He knows the Vedas. Right? So He is Vedanta.

Right? So then the Vedanta is compiled to describe Him. Right? So He is all that’s described by the Vedas. He’s all that’s been known by the Vedas. He’s all to be obtained by the Vedas.

And, you know, He is, you know, Atmarama, so He knows Himself.

Like that. Having explained that He alone enables the Jiva to enjoy material world, the Lord shows that He alone awards liberation.

Rewards liberation to the Jiva. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in his commentary, I alone am to be known by all the Vedas. I am to be known indirectly through the karma-kanda portion of the Vedas and directly through the jnana-kanda portion of the Vedas. I have produced the final conclusion, anta, of the Vedas, Vedanta-sutra, by taking the form of Badarayana. Thus the author of Vedanta-sutra says, tat tu samanvayata. Visnu is the subject of the Vedas because that is the meaning of all Vedic texts, Vedanta-sutra 1.1.4. But others will explain the meaning of the Vedas in a different way.

I alone am the knower of the Vedas, Vedavit. The meaning of which I have determined by becoming Badarayana is the meaning of the Vedas. Any other meaning is filled with air. Thus I alone as Badarayana am the producer of liberation. Since the Vedas, since by the Vedas alone one cannot understand the real truth about the Supreme Lord, which will bestow liberation.

So here he is the compiler of the Vedas because he comes as Badarayana and then compiles them. So that always goes on. That’s just the natural form.

So he’s establishing that the Lord is what to be known. How Badarayana sees it, that’s the way it’s to be seen because the Lord he incarnates as Badarayana. Any other form of philosophy or knowledge is faulted. It won’t have that completeness.

So therefore one must see with this. So Vedanta. Because that’s the anta, final conclusion. Because Krishna said he’s conclusion.

In his purport to this verse Srila Prabhupada clearly indicates the three main topics of this Vedas. Sabandha, Avidya, and Prayojana. The Vedas give us direction by which to understand Krishna and the process of realizing him. The ultimate goal is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

One can attain perfection in three stages. By understanding the Vedic literature one can understand his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By performing the different processes one can approach him. And at the end one can attain the Supreme Goal.

Supreme Goal who is not no other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this verse the purpose of the Vedas, the understanding of the Vedas and the goal of the Vedas are clearly defined. So here again this this point. So, you know, we should be very you know, comfortable with this is the essential formula which all other all aspects of the philosophy are then defined.

All connectedness.

Verses 16 to 20 Summary of Vedanta Sutra There are two classes of beings. The fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible. And in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. Besides these two there is a great is the greatest living personality the Supreme Soul the imperishable Lord Himself who has entered the three worlds and is maintaining them.

Because I am transcendental beyond both the fallible and the infallible because I am the greatest I am celebrated both in in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person. Whoever knows me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead without doubting is the knower of everything. He therefore engages himself in full devotional service to me O son of Bharata.

This is the most confidential part of the Vedic scriptures O sinless one. And it is disclosed now by me. Whoever understands this will become wise and his endeavors will know perfection. So it’s almost like the Cakrasloki.

Because he’s given the whoever knows me like that so that would be you know who searches for the Lord. He is transcendental so he is beyond everything. And then you have the fallible and infallible.

Because Krishna is going through now and giving because the basic elements have already been defined. Right? Everything is going to be built on. So now he is going through and showing how to apply them. So you always have to bring it back to these three so that you see it. How do you use it? Right? So now through that vision how do you apply it? So you’ll always get Does that make sense? Means otherwise you had to spend very big elaborate on a chapter on karma what it is what are the elements beyond all these different things so that’s been established. And then devotional service what it is you know then the modes of nature right? Then the tree that is nourished by those modes of nature so we are trying to un-nourish the tree right? You know so de-nourish or whatever.

Yes. Malnourish. Hmm? Malnourish. Malnourish. Okay.

Acharya has told these verses from 16th till 18th the Trishla Oh, that’s the Trishla. Okay. Okay.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, I think next year is a we studied all those different verses. Right. The Trishla, yeah. In next year’s course we have because the Acharyas have given these particular verses or groups of verses and there’s 11 verses that they have defined. The Chatur Shloki the Trishloki the Charan Shloki all these different ones like this and so that will be part of next year’s analysis.

This section is divided in three parts. Verses 16 to 18 describe Sambandha. Verse 19 describes Avidya and verse 20 describes Payoja.

There are two classes of beings the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible.

So fallible means conditioned because you’re going to make mistakes. You’re not going to see Krishna connected. Infallible means they only see everything in relationship to Krishna. So they make to connect you with the Chuta who’s infallible you become infallible. If you’re not connected with him then you’re fallible.

The Supersoul the Imperishable Lord Himself is beyond the fallible and infallible living beings and has entered the three worlds and is maintaining them. So he’s beyond. That’s what’s always important. He’s always making this point that there’s all these different elements and then he’s beyond.

So we also see is that in the Satya Shloki Bhagavatam that he establishes the creation. He’s maintaining it. He’s always there. He’s beyond. And then all these different things and then he’s beyond that.

So that element is there. Both in that he creates and after destruction he’ll still be there but the point is he’s still beyond everything. That’s why he’s still there.

Otherwise we don’t understand he’s in his own category. He’s unique. He’s different.

The fallible and infallible are in essence the same but one has a proper understanding. Proper consciousness one doesn’t. But besides this then there’s the Supreme Person who’s beyond this because he’s not energy. He’s energetic so he’s different.

Is that also indicating beyond?

Yeah. It could. But at the same time as, you know, the living entities seem to be involved in things the point is he’s there before it and he’ll be there after it’s gone.

Yeah.

Could indicate.

Because Krishna is transcendental beyond the fallible and the infallible and because he is the greatest he is celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as the Supreme Person. Verses 16 to 18. Verses 16 to 18 summarize the Vedanta philosophy Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport. Here the Lord is giving in summary the contents of the Vedanta Sutra. He says that the living entities who are innumerable can be divided into two classes the fallible and the infallible. The living entities are eternally separated parts and parcels of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When they are in contact with the material world they are called jiva-bhuta.

And the Sanskrit words given here saras sarvani bhutani meaning they are fallible. Those who are in oneness with the Supreme Personality of Godhead however are called infallible. Oneness does not mean that they have no individuality but that there is no disunity. They are all agreeable to the purpose of the creation. So again we’re describing the infallible is because they are in contact with material energy so the field. The field of activities. And so the jivas that understand know the Lord they are infallible. The jivas that don’t know the Lord and are in contact with material energy they are fallible. So what you’re trying to do is change from one who doesn’t know the Lord to one who does know the Lord. So that’s the essence of the Vedas. That’s simply all one’s trying to do. Remember Krishna and never forget him thereby being absorbed in the material energy.

Krishna is the supreme personality of Godhead and he is the source of both the Brahman and Paramatma features of the Absolute Truth. The Lord is different from all other living entities both fallible and infallible. He is beyond them because he maintains them and gives them all facilities for enjoyment according to their different work. nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yogir adhāti kāmān Right? So because they have these desires he’s taking care of it because otherwise it’s not going to work. Right? Because he’ll take care because because you’re dealing means you’re dealing with him but not seeing him. The internal potency deals with him and sees him. Right? But the living entity doesn’t see him. So therefore he takes care of himself because why would the internal potency be involved in such a process? Right? But what the process we’re involved in is a reflection of his interaction with the internal potency but it’s manifest through the external. So if you see that in connection with the internal then you’re seeing the Lord then it works in that way. You don’t see it in connection with the internal potency then you’re just dealing with the external.

Does that make sense? Right?

The result of obtaining this knowledge is described in verse 19. One who knows Krishna as the Supreme Personality of God who without doubting is the knower of everything. He therefore engages himself in full devotional service unto Krishna. Srila Prabhupada explains. The imperfect knower goes on simply speculating about the absolute truth. But the perfect knower without wasting his valuable time engages directly in Krishna consciousness. The devotional service of the Supreme Lord. If a person is engaged in full Krishna consciousness in the devotional service of the Lord it is to be understood that he has understood all the Vedic knowledge.

In the Vaisnava parampara it is said that if one is engaged in the devotional service of Krishna then there is no need for any other spiritual process for understanding the Supreme Absolute Truth. He’s already come to the point because he engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. He has ended all preliminary processes of understanding.

So in other words if the devotee is already engaged you don’t have to apply all these other preliminary processes to get you there because that’s the culmination. But if you’re not engaged then all these preliminary processes are what one will use to get there. If you’re already cooking do you need to cut vegetables? No. But if you’re not cooking that means vegetables have to be cooked, spices ground, pots washed, all the things, arrangements are there until you’re cooking. But once you’re cooking do you need to do all those other things? No. So that’s the point. So someone who’s engaged there’s no need of this but if they’re not engaged that’s the point. So if someone says no but we’re supposed to be engaged in devotional service yes of course that’s what we’re trying to get to. If you are, great. There’s no complaint. But if you’re not you know what aspect of your life is not that’s what all this is for. If you’re absorbed in kirtan you don’t have to look and see what modes are at work here and this and that. Yes. So what is if somebody is engaged in preaching activities and he is operating on this level but some of the people that he’s preaching to are not and he’s not somehow able to tell them how to deal with these lower levels shouldn’t he try to? Means that shouldn’t he try to? Try to. Yes he should try to be educated. In other words if he can simply by describing devotional service inspire them so much that they just immediately give up the modes and work in devotional service then that’s the most direct that’s the easiest because that’s the first recommendation. If not then you follow the rules and regulations so then one should know that because if someone doesn’t serve then one knows that process. If one can’t do that then one takes up working for Krishna so that means all the Vedic elements. So if one is educated in these nice but even if one’s not that doesn’t mean you can’t preach. Because in other words what you understand and you’re advancing so that means if someone else understands just what you understand they’ll advance.

So that means anybody who has any sincere understanding in parampara can preach.

But the more you have this it means the more tools you have at your command so that way you’ll be able to deal with the broader range or broadest range.

But you also see is that there’s not necessarily that many who can bring them to chant.

But like you said there’s probably more of them than the ones who know this stuff.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

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