Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #68

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #68

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What was it, the Vedic mantra, the Panchatattva mantra, the Hare Krishna, that was the doubt?

You don’t understand.

Okay, so we’re making the point is the mood or the attitude changes, but the activity doesn’t. So you have 64 aspects of devotional service, so you think that those would change, or you’re talking about going from completely mundane to devotional. Maybe you describe Nishkama Karma Yoga as a fundamental activity for bhakti yoga. From nature of devotion, I have understood that there are nine kinds of devotional service.

What’s the confusion? Okay, you have nine kinds of devotional service. So if someone goes from a neophyte to a madhyama to an uttama, does chanting Hare Krishna or worshiping the deity, associating with devotees, living in the Dhamma, does that change?

You know what I’m saying? Does he stop worshiping Tulsi because he’s more advanced, or he doesn’t follow the deities in the procession because he’s more advanced, you know what I’m saying?

So then what’s the question?

You said that we keep the same mode of activity, the form of this activity in bhakti, but I have an understanding that pure devotional service is the nine main forms of activity. Pure devotional service has nine main forms, but even you take the nine main forms, do the nine main forms change as you advance in Krishna consciousness? Do they change?

The attitude changes, so that’s what I said, but does the form change?

Does the form change?

But in karma yoga, they don’t practice… Karma yoga… What is karma yoga? Karma yoga means engaging the body… In varnashrama? No, engaging the body in activities connecting to Krishna. Karma yoga meaning varnashrama, that’s just karma. Yoga means connected to the Lord.

Dhyana yoga means the knowledge of the scriptures, knowledge of devotional service is connected to the Lord.

Dhyana yoga means our meditation is connected to the Lord.

Why it’s called that is because that’s where you start. If I start with my relationship with Krishna, and then to please Krishna, I am going to perform an activity, right, to express that, right? The boy has affection for the girl, and so that’s enough, right? He never has to show it, right? You’re from which country?

You’re not from any country.

I would guess it’s not America.

Okay, from where? Italy?

Yeah. Russia, okay. So, in Russia, if a boy likes a girl, liking her in that mood in his mind, that’s enough for the relationship, right?

Does he ever have to express it? Does he ever have to, like, buy her flowers, or say anything, or get her gifts, or take her out to places? He never has to do that, right? In Russia, everyone just sits around and meditates, you know. What do you call it?

Mental telepathy? Is that what it’s called?

You understand? So, do they express it?

Yes, okay. So, the point is, is that mood has to be expressed, and it’s expressed through activities.

So, just because activity is there doesn’t make it, then, karma yoga. It’s karma if it’s fruitive. It’s karma yoga if your attachments are connected to fruitive activities, but you’re not doing it for Krishna. I mean, doing it for yourself, you’re doing it for Krishna, so it’s not nice karma. Pure devotional service means you’re doing something for Krishna, and so you’re going to express it through activities, so that the station of the action doesn’t change. What changes is the mentality.

Why take that approach, you know, of explanation? That’s because the common point is, due to impersonalism, we think that spiritual and material, because they’re opposite. Therefore, if one has activity, the other doesn’t. So, we’re pointing out is, the problem is, is our mentalities change, not what we do. Look at it. In the spiritual world, are there men and women? Yes. Are there families? Do they have children? Do they have houses? Do they have an occupation? Right? Do they have social interaction?

Festivals. Right? Do they wear clothes? Ornaments. Do they eat food? So, what’s changed between what goes on in the spiritual world and the material world?

Activities are the same. Situations are the same. What’s changed? The attitude. So, that’s the point. So, the trick is, is change the attitude back to that of the spiritual world. That’s what you have to do. But we’ll take it as, no, change the activity. But we haven’t actually changed the activity from what we do in the spiritual world. Detail? Maybe.

You know what I’m saying? Instead of wearing, you know, aguru and this, we wear Chanel. So, I mean, you know, but that’s a detail.

You know what I’m saying? But in principle, nothing’s changed. Just like your face and the face in the mirror. What’s the difference?

Nothing. But one’s real and one’s not real.

That’s the point.

Varanashram itself is not the way of devotional service. But the point is, is it doesn’t mean you’re not using that. Okay, let’s say like this. Is brass devotional service?

It’s a kind of metal. Kind of yellow. You take tin and copper and mix them. You get brass. So, is that devotional service?

No. But somehow or another, every artichoke, we’re taking some brass and waving it at the Lord.

And you call it artichoke. So, is artichoke devotional service?

Yeah, and there’s fire there. So, is fire devotional service?

Are circles devotional service?

You know? Guy comes out with his cane, his top hat. So, that’s circles, you know? So, hey, is that devotional service? Hey, let’s go watch archie down at the cabaret, you know?

You know, I’m not sure how that kind of goose step works into it. But hey, you know, is it…

Do you understand? What’s happening is you’re getting caught up in that form is what makes devotional service. That’s the problem. Because you’ve already answered the question that, it’s the attitude change between the spiritual world and the material world. You’ve already answered that. But you’re stuck on no form is devotional service.

Right?

Does that make sense?

That’s the problem. Because if you look at it, what you’re doing in principle, you’re not changing anything. You’re changing the attitude. It’s just like you’re wearing a dhoti. The dhoti is clothes. Clothes are a principle.

Right? Not a detail. The principle doesn’t change. You were wearing clothes before you became a devotee. You’re wearing clothes after becoming a devotee. Right? So now that you’re wearing clothes, but why do you wear these clothes?

It looks cool. You know, the girls are really going to like it. You know. All your buddies are going to say, Wow, check that out. You know what I mean? Is that why you’re wearing them?

Yes or no?

To please Kṛṣṇa. Right? So, that means is then, because you’re trying to please Kṛṣṇa, therefore only there’s a change in the form. But in the principle, there’s not. Only in the detail.

Detail.

Book. Study guide. Book is principle. Detail, this is a study guide. This is a book. But this is Bhagavad-gītā.

Right? Does that make sense?

See, the point is, is that something is devotional service when you see it in connection to Kṛṣṇa. The point Rūpa Goswāmī is making is varṇāśrama on its own inherently is not devotional service. But it’s the best form to connect to devotional service. What culture did Rūpa Goswāmī follow? Did he follow Vedic? Did he follow varṇāśrama? Or did he follow, you know, you know, nobody really knows it, but he was actually an emo. Right? You know.

Paramahaṁsa. So, after he went, after he passed stool, what did he do? He rolled around in it? Or he took some water and washed?

You understand? Paramahaṁsa means you’re not doing that because you have an attachment for it. You’re doing it because that’s just what human beings do.

So, you’re taking it that the form itself defines the placement. But it doesn’t. The gopīs are girls. They’re dressing up. They’re going to go see their boyfriend.

So, what’s changed?

You understand? The gopīs are dressing nicely, rushing to the temple to see Kṛṣṇa. Right? The other girls are dressing up nicely also rushing to the temple because at seven o ‘clock, that’s when all the boys are there.

You know what I’m talking? And we’re not talking karmas here.

You understand? Some girls are dressing up, rushing to the temple, not because the boys are there, because the other ladies are there and they’ll think, wow, she’s dressed so much more nicely than me.

You understand? So, what’s the difference? The difference is in attitude.

That’s devotional service, is the change in attitude.

Prabhupāda says, you don’t have to change anything. You just have to change the consciousness. If you change the consciousness, everything else will come.

sarva-dhārmaṁ parityajā What does that mean?

But what does that mean? sarva-dhārmaṁ parityajā Give up all religions so the soul shouldn’t act as the soul anymore. The gopīs are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dhārmaṁ, so they give up all the nature of a girl. They don’t act like girls, right?

You know, when the gopīs come to the rasa dance, they crump, right?

Probably most of these things are wasted. Yes.

Kṛṣṇa means, sarva-dhārmaṁ means all Vedic paths of spiritual upliftment. Are given up. So that means then you do nothing.

See, the difficulty comes as you have not made any connection between the first six chapters, the middle six chapters and these last six chapters. You have not made any connection.

We’ve been discussing this point now for the last so many months.

Means, this material energy is made up of what?

What’s it made out of? According to these chapters here. The last verse. Huh? The trigunas. I am the basis of impersonal Brahman.

Why would you say that?

Because the material energy is made out of Brahman. This is Brahman.

We call it material energy. That’s why it’s used like this. We see it that way. We see it separate from Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa’s energy. It’s Brahman.

Right? So the point is, if it’s Brahman, it’s already Kṛṣṇa. So the problem is, we think it’s just a rock. Right? And we deal with it as it’s just a rock. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is we understand this is Brahman and we deal with it because it’s connected to Kṛṣṇa.

Right? So what’s changing, does the rock change? No. What changes is my attitude.

So sarva-dharmam parityajya means I start with Kṛṣṇa first and then engage the material energy rather than starting with the material energy and connecting it to Kṛṣṇa.

Okay, just like this. The guy doesn’t know what to do. So he doesn’t know the girl. Right? So therefore he thinks, okay, what can I do? Okay, I can invite her after dinner. Where should we go? We should go to this place. We should go to that place. All these different things because he doesn’t know the girl. Right? So he’s thinking, what would be nice? Okay, girls like this. So what can I do that therefore it’ll work? Right? That’s starting with the karma. Right? And connecting it to the girl. Okay? Now let’s say he really likes this girl. He has great affection for the girl. So he’s thinking, what can I do to please this girl? Then he’ll go back to, okay, we could go to this place. We could do this. We could do that. That’s the difference between karma yoga and sarva -dharmam parityajya. We’re talking about people. We’re talking about relationships with people. That’s the point. Not the form. You’re saying, but the form is not devotional service and all you’re talking about is form. That’s why you’re confused.

Because if you say, no Vedic culture, no karma yoga, no jnana yoga, no jnana yoga, you tell me what’s left. What is there to engage in Krishna service?

Vodka?

Form is not devotional service. It’s the attitude that makes it devotional service. Only attitude.

Yes, only attitude. You have a potato. The man takes the potato, cuts it up, fries it, eats it himself. That’s karma. Right? The guy wants to eat potatoes, so he cuts them up, fries them, offers them to Krishna. That’s karma yoga. He wants to please Krishna. He’s got potatoes. So he takes them, cuts them up and offers them to Krishna. That was karma, karma yoga and pure devotional service, just described. The potatoes didn’t change. The process of cooking the potatoes didn’t change.

The form is not devotional service, but natural devotional. So, many importance to sixty-four…

Yes, it means there are sixty-four ways to express devotional service. He’s talking about a culture. But does he, does he, does Rupa Goswami recommend following those sixty-four items of sadhana bhakti without thinking of Krishna? No. Does he say that the highest way of following these sixty-four is focused just on the ritual of the sixty-four and then you can add Krishna after. That’s the topmost.

No. It’s that these sixty-four are, these are the ways to express your affection to Krishna.

You have to do something to express your affection.

You understand? How… means when you’re dealing with logic, you make your point, you expand it, and you give an example. So, for people in the material world, what example are we going to give? Right? I can give all kinds of far-out examples and no one here may understand them. But if I start talking about, you know, teenage boys and girls, bang, everyone’s awake, everyone’s focused, everyone knows exactly what I’m saying.

You understand? So, you give an example according to the audience. So, we’re in the material world, we think in the way of the form is everything. So, vaidhi sadhana means you focus on doing this form for Krishna.

And that’s called vaidhi sadhana. But raganuga sadhana means same form, but now you spontaneously do it because you like doing this for Krishna. So, what’s changed? Not the form, the attitude. Does that make sense now? Okay.

Yes? Are some forms more congenial to the living entity for doing this for Krishna? Like, let’s say, to use a gross example, a woman gets married and she wants to have a child for Krishna. Another woman says, I want to have a child for Krishna, but I don’t want to bother my husband.

Or she retroactively gets pregnant and says, Oh, I’m going to raise this child up as a devotee. Where are you from? America. Okay. I was going to say. Otherwise, nobody else here would have given that kind of an example. Just wanted to make sure.

It means I’ll deal with it, but I won’t get into too much detail because that’s like going back to like third chapter. We’re on 14th, you know, so it’s just that.

The point is, is that what’s the difference in there? What’s the actual difference? We will take it that the one lady is willing to get married and then the other lady doesn’t want to get married. Right. So we’ll take that as actually the major element. But in these chapters, that’s not the major element because why is she choosing that she’s willing to have a, you know, family with a husband and she’s not willing to have a family with a husband? What’s the difference? Actually.

Okay. So that means that an improvement in the quality of the form. Okay. So that’s better. So an improved quality we would call pious and a lesser is impious because pious means it’s according to the nature. Right. So it’s a strange things that somehow another in this process that kids are actually conscious. Right. They’re sentient beings that actually have feelings and, you know, perspectives and desires, you know, which basically most adults don’t even, it’s not part of the equation because somehow another kids having a mother and father is pretty normal. It’s probably the one question kids never ask. They may ask, why is the sky blue or the grass green? You know, they may ask all these questions because some forms of life, they’re colorblind, you know, or, you know, they never notice, ants don’t notice clouds. You know what I’m saying? So there is a point that out of the 8,400,000 that some of these are very strange. But if a little kid says, oh, who’s that? You know, mommy. Oh, that’s this person’s, you know, father, they never ask a question. Have you ever heard of a kid asking, what’s a mother or a father? No. Why? Because every life they have one. So they expect there to be a mother and a father and they expect them to remain together as long as they’re alive. That’s the way the kids look at it. Now adults, of course, well, they have to understand and all this kind of nonsense. But hey, you know, that’s because they’re only self-centered. So what’s the difference between the two here? One is more self-centered. One’s less self-centered. So because it’s there, it’s less self-centered, it’s more pious. And the other is more self-centered, so it’s less pious. Now if you want to offer something to God, do you offer the best or the worst? All right? I can go to the market, buy a first class vegetables, or I can also go around the back and get the stuff that’s thrown out because, you know, it’s gone past the expiry date. If I had a choice and I had the money, which would I take? Right. So why would I take an inferior form unless I’m attached to that form? So if I’m attached to the form, that means it drops the quality of the service. So they’re not equal. Right? Because they’re simply taking forms. So one form or another, this rock or this rock, what’s the difference?

But the point is, is if there’s a purpose for it, then there’s a difference.

You know? There’s a difference. Like that. This one’s smooth, this one’s not. Someone might hurt their finger on this, they won’t hurt it on that. So if that’s the concern, then this is superior. Right? So this point of equality, then what’s the difference between a brick and your husband? You know, there is no difference going to modern, you know what I’m saying? If we really want to get into it, because dead matter is dead matter.

Right?

So, the point is, is that if we’re, if karma yoga, if we’re engaging something in Krishna’s service, but the reason that it’s karma yoga is because we’re actually starting with ourselves. What activities, according to our nature, we want to be involved in. You know what I’m saying? So, then the point is, is therefore this family aspect and having a child is the, is the inspiration for action. So our inspiration for action is our desire for a child. Not Krishna’s, ours. But, we’re really connected to Krishna, therefore it’s karma yoga. But pure devotional service means you want to please Krishna. So you start there. So what activities could one do? So as a woman, one can have a family and try to make the family Krishna conscious.

You know what I’m saying? So, that’s then, it’s different.

So the attitude is very, very different.

Okay.

You know, yeah. Secondary things is, why wouldn’t they want a husband? Because they have authority issues. And if you have authority issues, Krishna’s an authority. Guru’s an authority.

And so you’ll find those women who have those issues also have issues with Krishna. So it’s, because it’s one principle. It just has many manifestations.

You know what I’m saying? You know, that’s, that’s the point.

Do you know, where are we on the page?

Bottom.

Oh, the last point? By following Krishna? Okay.

Oh, no, I think it’s the theoretical knowledge.

Okay, the last verse of this chapter answers, verses of this chapter answers Arjuna’s third question. What is the method for transcending this? One who engages in full devotional service unto Krishna, unfailing in all circumstances, at once transcends the modes of material nature and comes to his constitutional position. So here is unfailingly. Right? So, why unfailingly?

Because if you fail, what are you acting according to? The modes, right? So one who’s unfailing, then he’ll never. So in other words, if at every circumstance you’re seeing it in connection to Krishna and trying to act in that form, you’re not under the modes. You may be very expert or not so expert in devotional activities, but you’re not under the modes.

So that, that’s the point, is that it’s always like that. Then it’s, then you come to your constitutional position. Because otherwise, if you’re not, then you’re acting according to a conditional. Right? So it’s a matter of making that endeavor to always be remembering Krishna. In all times, all places, all circumstances. That’s, that’s what the chapter Shloki is saying. Right?

The theory, so yeah, and here it’s also engages, engages. Right? So you, engagement means an activity. Right? So activity means time, place, circumstance. So all time, places and circumstances are seen in connection to Krishna.

The theoretical knowledge of the difference between the jiva and the gunas, given in verse 19, is not enough for attaining freedom from the gunas. Srila Baladeva Yabhusan writes in his commentary to verse 16, no 19, no, verse 26. Wow.

The one on the 19 and the six on the, that’s a, that’s, that’s a big pull.

Okay, Krishna says, having attained that knowledge, he should take shelter, sevate, of Me, alone. He who takes shelter of Me by performing the process of bhakti-yoga, surpasses the gunas which are hard to surpass and attains kalpate, his own inherent nature, brahma-bhuyaya.

The eight qualities of atma, no sin, no death, no old age, no hunger, no thirst, no lamentation, fully truthful and all desires automatically satisfied. Right? In other words, just by knowing how the modes work, that’s not going to get you to go beyond the modes. Right? You know, the chain smoker knows smoking is bad for him. It’s very rare to find a smoker who doesn’t know that. But, did they stop smoking? No. So it’s not enough. Just theoretical knowledge is not enough. You have to have a way to apply that. So the devotional service is that method because that’s the inherent nature of the soul. Right? Acting outside a devotional service, that’s not actually natural for the soul. So, therefore, they won’t get that result. But, by having that knowledge, you’ll be able to distinguish and tell what you’re doing and what you’re not doing.

Okay. So, having that knowledge, you take shelter of Krsna and then taking shelter by performing the bhakti-yoga. See, here’s your answer here. Having attained that knowledge, you should take shelter of me alone. Okay? That’s taking shelter. By the process of performing bhakti-yoga. So taking shelter through devotional service. Right? You’re going to take shelter. How is that shelter manifested? Through devotional service. He didn’t say by performing devotional service then taking shelter. That’s… No. You take shelter and perform devotional service. So that’s the topmost. Right? Perform devotional service that brings you to taking shelter. That’s bhakti-yoga.

Right? Does that make sense? But then, when you’re taking shelter, that’s… And then, through devotional service, because devotional service is the medium. So, shelter is the point. And then, the medium is devotional service. Right? So, this is the meaning of that sarva -dharmam parityajya. It’s not that the form is what makes it devotional service. No. It’s that taking shelter of Krishna that makes it devotional service. Right? Then, you use the process of devotional service. Right? Because someone who has that surrender, then there’s a natural process.

Right? So they use that process.

Does that make sense? Yes.

Why everybody ask devotees only, just chant Hare Krishna? Just chant Hare Krishna.

So, you have a problem with just chanting Hare Krishna and be happy? It’s just like this. OK. Let’s say, you’re supposed to just cook lunch. That’s all. You just, just have to cook lunch. OK? Straightforward thing. Right? OK? Now, let us say, you’re going to cook lunch. What goes with that? What do you have to do? You just walk straight into the kitchen. The pots are already there. You simply push spoons around and Hari-Bowl. There’s lunch. Right? That’s how it works, isn’t it? Every cook knows that. So, what goes along with that?

Anything?

Right. Do you need a kitchen? So, is a kitchen just cooking? But to just cook, you need a kitchen. You need some pots and pans. You need ingredients. That means you have to go to the market. To go to the market, you have to have money. That means you had to have a job. Right? And to, to, what do you call it?

And to know what to buy, you have to have a menu. So, that means you had to plan a menu. Right? And you just cook. So, the point is, as you cook, the people are going to eat that. So, then, you have to have a place for them to eat. You have to have things to serve with and all that. And you’re not going to use the, the cooking pots. You’re going to have a separate set of pots. And, not only that, to make it actually worth serving to the devotees, it has to be offered. So, that means there are deities and the whole thing there. And deities being there, they have artiques. They get up in the morning. They go to bed. You know, everything like that. And then, you know, to maintain that, you got to have buckets and rags to clean the floor. We need eucalyptus oil. You got to go out and buy that. You know. You understand? But all you’re doing is just cook it.

But all that goes along with just cooking. Like in Vrindavan, Krishna says, He just, you know, interacts in loving relationships with His devotees. That’s all Krishna’s doing. But, you know, there’s brudge. There’s everything about it. All the social situation. All the different aspects that happen. But all Krishna’s doing is just interacting with the devotees.

Because if you have a complaint about that, why don’t you just sit and chant?

So, you don’t mind taking prasad. You don’t mind going to the toilet.

You understand? Your question’s not on that.

If I’m supposed to just chant Hare Krishna, why do I have to go to the toilet? Why do I have to sleep?

You know, I’m not bringing up things like brushing teeth, or, you know, stuff like that, because that there may be a question.

You understand?

Just means that’s the focus. That’s all there is.

You know, it’s just like you say, kids, they just play all day. But sometimes they’re playing with the rocks and mud. Sometimes they’re out playing in the house. And sometimes they’re running around and yelling and screaming. But all they’re doing is just playing.

So, just chanting Hare Krishna, just chanting means just chanting, and everything that goes along with it.

Right? We’re just having kichari today. So that means, because it’s just kichari, there’s no plate. Right? There’s no cups and spoons. There’s no table. There’s not even a floor. It’s just floating in space. It’s just kichari. In fact, there’s no space. You know, so I’m not sure we have to… Our quantumist is not here, so we have to discuss with him that there were no space. Where would this kichari be? Because it’s just kichari.

You understand? This is the problem, is that you’re not seeing past form.

Does that make sense?

That’s why it’s called Samkirtan. It’s the complete kirtan.

You know, so that includes, you know, washing the floor.

We’re not inferring that the only people becoming devotees are, you know, south of the border, but, you know, so… They’re the only ones washing the floor. Huh? Or they’re the only ones washing the floor. But if you check into it, they’re the only ones there. Right? You know, it’s either Bhakta Jose or Bhakta Igor, or one or the other. You know, it’s like that.

By following Krishna’s instructions in verse 19 and 22 to 25, one will be gradually elevated on the platform of equanimity. However, by performing devotional service that’s described in verse 26, one immediately, automatically transcends the modes of nature. Right? Because equanimity means you’re seeing it in equal point. The point is, you know, somebody is dealing with you improperly. So, you know, you think, OK, well, I shouldn’t be affected by this. But, you know, why is that devotee acting like this? But if it’s actually equal, the point is, we’re affected by the modes, but they’re acting under the modes. So we as the soul aren’t involved, but they as the soul are not involved.

So that’s equanimity. So you can get equanimity by understanding this knowledge. Right? But it doesn’t mean that one has transcended.

One is seeing. One has the tools to transcend. But one transcends only when one takes up devotional service because it’s being done to please Krishna.

Because outside of Krishna, what is there? There’s only the material manifestation. So if one is not connecting it to Krishna, even if one can see it, doesn’t mean one’s out of it. Right? The prisoner can see the jail.

Right? And can tell the difference between his cell and the courtyard.

Right? Does that make sense? So they can tell the difference between the bristly end of a toothbrush and the sharp end of the toothbrush.

You understand?

So, but that doesn’t mean they’re out. Right? But it’s only by when one surrenders to Krishna and then engages that in devotional service, that the process becomes, one is transcendental.

Right? So in other words, the process of karma, jnana and dhyana, yogas, these are very important tools or methods that you can use to engage in Krishna’s service. And these are now the finer details on how in engaging those activities one can you know, make them very efficient.

Does that make sense? Yes? If one performs devotional service and immediately transcends the modes of nature, does the platform of equanimity do that automatically? Yes. Me’s point is someone’s situating devotional service, equanimity’s already there. Now we’re taking devotional service by this, one who engages in full devotional service and failing it. So that’s automatic.

Like that. But otherwise, because, you see, because Krishna recommends that, that’s the first, first option. Just surrender.

Right? Take shelter. Surrender. And there are examples of devotees who’ve done this. So it’s not like it’s never been done. So that’s the best. It’s most efficient. Right? If you can’t do that, then you follow the rules and regulations of devotional service. So you’re going to follow that. Then all these other, then, that means you just focus on doing those things but they’re directly connected. Offering arti, preaching, you know, hearing Bhagavatam, chanting, these are all directly connected. So then, though you’re doing those activities, but they’re connected to Krishna. Right? So, because it’s, for Krishna, it’s already automatically naiskarmya. And you’re following these things. So that’s the pancharatric system. Is you’re following those things that are directly connected to Krishna or are directly supportive of those things directly connected, like taking your bath or brushing your teeth. Right? So, you do all those things in connection with the Deity because you don’t have to think of something else. You just brush your teeth thinking, you know, I got to clean my teeth and get ready for doing arti. Or going, you know, going to the temple. So, it’s automatically connected if you just think about it a little bit. Right? So, in the very simplest, easiest way, you’re connected through the activity to Krishna. You understand? So, it’s very much just on that edge that you may be thinking of Krishna first or the activity first for Krishna. You know what I’m saying? It goes back and forth. But it’s very well situated. Right? So, as long as that works for you, then that would be the next best. Right? So, if that is a problem, then you add in the Vedic elements, which is the expansion of all those into the Pancharatra. So, all the things, the family life, all these things connected with the other occupations rather than just, you know, worshipping the Deity and preaching. So, then and there, then there’s more technical elements. Right? We’re saying that, Oh, the Pancharatra is so technical. You know, why can’t it just be easy? No, that’s actually easy. What’s technical is the engagement and occupational activities and family life. That’s technical.

You know what I’m saying? You go up, you pick up a spoon. Right? Put it in the little cup. Put some water on this hand, that hand. Okay, you have to put so many drops here, so many drops there. Sip it so many times, only looking here and there and all those things. How long does it take you to get that down? A couple of weeks. You’re pretty good at it. Right? You can touch all the things, remember all the names. And so, you spent two weeks and then from there it never changes for the rest of your life. Okay? The man walks in the door to his house. Right? And so, when he walks in, it’s going to be exactly the same every time he walks in for the rest of his life. Right? No, it’s going to change every time, every moment. So, you tell me, which is more difficult, Atman or running a family? Yeah, right. So now, that’s the problem, because devotees, they take it the other way around. Because I’m attached to a family, therefore, I’m a perfect grihasta. I was able to conceive a child, therefore, I’m the perfection of, you know, parenthood.

You know, we laugh, but I deal with this every day.

You understand? So, this is the problem. So, they, they, they don’t understand how complex is their, and that’s why they fail. That’s why they can’t figure out why the family life is the way it is, why the kids are the way they are. Because they think that simply, I’m attached, that’s perfection.

I’m attached, therefore, I have drive, therefore, I perform activity. But the point is, you know, at least according to what my mother would say, that’s like, you know, a chicken, you know, with its head cut off, it runs around for a while.

You know what I’m saying? So, it’s doing activity, but it’s not getting anywhere.

You understand? So, the science, then, is how all those things are performed, but it’s still useless if it’s not connected to Krishna. So, we’re giving the science how all those fine points that are there in everyone’s life, the point, the problem is that they’re not conscious of it. That’s all. Because they’re not conscious, they think it’s not there. It’s just like the ostrich. Right? It doesn’t see it, it doesn’t exist. Right?

Does that make sense? So, does that mean that these, like, these instructions of Krishna in verses 22 to 25, that, that is technical details that would be applied outside of the pancharatric, you know, activity? Well, it’s not outside the pancharat, it’s an expansion of it. Because, see, pancharatric is basically like this. You have, you have this, the culture and activities of the spiritual world. Right? That will be reflected onto the material world. Right? It doesn’t need to be reflected. Why is it reflected?

Because of what? Mother Yashoda wants it? We want it. Because of our material desire, it means our desire is separate from Krishna, therefore, it becomes reflected. Right? It’s always there, but it’s noticed. Right? Okay? So, now that reflection is there, but the reflection will be exactly the same. But the difference is, is the attitude. Right? Mother Yashoda, she’s totally focused on her son. Her son is her all in all. She’ll give up her life for her son. She spends all day doing things for her son. Sound familiar? Yeah. So, the point is, but what’s the difference?

The activity of Mother Yashoda and the activity of a mom here is the same. What’s the difference? Mother Yashoda’s son is Krishna, but what’s the important element? She’s Krishna conscious. So that means the mother here will be focused on her child, but be Krishna conscious. So, how to do that? That’s these technical things of karma, jnana, and yoga. And now these modes of nature.

Right? So, that’s what’s there. So, in other words, the Bhagavad is the primary, which is the focus on Krishna, exclusively. The Pancharatrika is there if that doesn’t work so well, because it deals with the form of the reflection. It’s actually dealing with the original, but we don’t know the original, so it gives it in the form of the reflection. But it’s akayana. It’s all connected to the Lord. Vedic means that it could be connected to the Lord or not. You do, it’s daya-varnasrama, you don’t, it’s asura.

Right? It’s that simple.

Right? Does that make sense? So, the point is, is that still when we approach varnasrama, it’s basically, for us, it’s an expansion of pancharatra. So, it’s still akayana. We’re brushing our teeth, but it’s still connected to Krishna.

You know what I’m saying? That’s the point. Just like the pancharatra is still connected to the Lord, it’s still connected to the Holy Name. Does that make sense? Yeah?

Is that okay? Yeah.

However, by performing devotional service, as described in verse 26, one immediately and automatically transcends the modes of nature. Since the devotee is serving Krishna exclusively of the abhicharya-ena, he has no opportunity to serve the modes, and therefore, he at once attains the Brahman platform where the modes cannot affect him.

On this platform, pure devotional service begins. So, even somebody who doesn’t know all this technicality, if they’re absorbed in Krishna, they’re beyond the modes. But because they don’t know the technicality, if there’s a situation where they’re not fully absorbed, then they get caught by the modes. So, if you know the science, then you can apply it in those situations. If you’re fully absorbed, kirtan’s going great, you’re fully absorbed, you don’t have to use all this. Because you just surrendered to Krishna. It’s at the points where surrender may not be the prominent element that these are useful.

You know what I’m saying?

That’s the point. Right? The man’s living in his house, right? Going around, you know, doing whatever he does. Does he need a hammer and a screwdriver?

No. But let’s say the picture falls off the wall. Then he needs it. So, only if something’s not, you know, in its natural form, then you need it. So, the natural form is surrender to Krishna. So, when that moments come when we’re not, that’s where we start applying this. We start separating ourselves from the material energy, right? We’re Brahman. We’re not the field. So, that means if we’re not the body, we’re not anything connected with the body. Right? So, that automatically separates. Then you can see how the modes are working. So, that will create, you know, the equanimity.

But it won’t create the transcendence until we connect that to Krishna. Right?

Does that make sense? So, in other words, these are the tools how to, how to, in other words, when things aren’t going exactly the way we’d like, so natural and spontaneous, that’s when this knowledge is applied. If it’s going in that natural, spontaneous way, it’s not necessary.

Does that make sense?

Srila Prabhupada writes, One should not be disturbed by the activities of the transcendental modes of nature. Instead of putting his consciousness into such activities, it may transfer his consciousness to Krishna activities. Krishna activities is known as bhakti-yoga, always acting for Krishna. This includes not only Krishna, but his different plenary expansions, such as Rama and Narayana.

He has innumerable expansions. One who is engaged in the service of any of the forms of Krishna or his plenary expansions is considered to be transcendentally situated. One should also note that all the forms of Krishna are fully transcendental, blissful, full of knowledge and eternity. Such personalities of Godhead are omnipotent and omniscient, and they possess all transcendental qualities. So if one engages himself in the service of Krishna or his plenary expansions with unfailing determination, although these modes of nature are very difficult to overcome, one can overcome them easily. So one’s always absorbed, in other words, you’re looking at the activity in connection to Krishna. So that’s the point. If it’s connected to Krishna, then it’s not acting as a mode. Right? Because for Krishna, these elements aren’t what’s prominent. Right? The spirit means this… The modes of nature are the reflection of the sandhini, sambit and vladhini potencies. But Krishna doesn’t make that distinction.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s, that’s, you know, he doesn’t go, oh, here’s Radharani, so she’s vladhini of vladhini. Here’s Lalita, she’s sambit of vladhini. And then here’s Vishaka, she’s, you know, sandhini of vladhini. You know, he doesn’t do that.

You know? It’s just, it just works. It’s natural because the absorption is in the relationship. So if you’re seeing the relationship with Krishna, the surrender to Krishna, then all these technical points aren’t the prominence.

But, if they’re not, if it’s not working on that platform of that relationship like that, then these are ways to bring it to that point. Right? In other words, someone’s expert at something because they’ve looked at the detail. Right? You first write, like, when you get on a bicycle now, if you know how to ride, you worry about the pedals or the this or the hand grips or all that. No. You just get on and ride. It’s just one thing. Right? But when you first get on, it makes a difference where you put your foot on the pedal, how high the seat is, you know, all these different things. Right? When you’re going fast, what do you put on first, the front brake or the back brake? The back brake. Right? So, they make a difference there, but once it’s known, it’s just part of dealing with the… You understand? So, in other words, when we’re practicing, then these things are useful. That which comes naturally, we don’t have to worry about it. So, with time, with practice, more and more of it’s spontaneous, so this is not the prominence. Right? But, if there’s anything that comes out that’s a difficulty, you can immediately go because you know the science. Or, if you’re discussing with someone else, they have a problem, you can explain the science.

Does that make sense? So, that’s the thing. There’s no… The… Raghunuga sadhana and Raghunuga sadhana are the same thing. The only difference is the mood. It’s not a form change. Right? That’s the mistake. We always take it that it’s the form that makes the devotional activity. Right? So, therefore, Raghunuga sadhana must be different than Vaiti sadhana, but it’s not. The difference is the mood. Right? The gopis are taking cow dung patties and sticking them on the wall. Right? Does that make sense? But, they’re absorbed in Krsna.

So, the activity doesn’t change.

Does that make sense? So, that’s the…

Overcoming the modes is possible by transforming the desire for sense enjoyment to desire to service of the Lord. This transformation is obtained through worship of the spiritual master. Now, that is seriously politically incorrect.

This transformation is attained through worship of the spiritual master. Wow. Okay. So, then, those prayers by the Goswamis and all that are correct, according to this point. Okay. If one thinks about himself as guru’s servant and always carries the orders of guru as his life and soul, he is freed from the modes of nature. So, transformation, right, because that’s our philosophy, right, is…

Parinamavada is the change. And, vivarta is that is illusion. So, Parinamavada means it’s change from the spiritual to the material. So, you’re changing it back. Right? But, remember, the form doesn’t change. Right? The tree on the bank and the tree in the water are both trees.

You understand? So, it’s a matter of switching from one to the other. So, transformation means you’re transforming the consciousness. If you can transform the consciousness, means you transform the consciousness from the tree in the water to the tree on the land. Where are you situated? On the land, in reality. So, you’re automatically in the spiritual world. Right? But, if you think, no, I have to change the tree in the water, you know, to a Lamborghini, then, where are you situated? In the water, in illusion. Right? So, this is the problem, is that we take it that it’s the form that’s important. No, it’s the consciousness that’s important. You change the consciousness, you’ve already changed the form. You know, but they’re trying, people are trying to say, no, but this particular material form is yukta-vairagya. We don’t have to change it. But, are they changing the consciousness?

No, that’s the problem. So, it’s not actually yukta-vairagya.

You understand? This is the difficulty. Yes? How is it that they’re not changing their consciousness? How is that? I’m missing that.

Okay, means, okay. You say they’re not changing their consciousness. Yeah, it means, okay, we’re going to, it means, why should we be fanatic and where are these things that the academics will say are created by the Muslims and all that, and that, and the scriptures don’t mention dhoti, the word dhoti, right? You know, so that’s the, the common word that’s used by people now. In Sanskrit, then they’ll say, you know, trikacha, panchakacha, you know, pitambara. We have all these synonyms. It’s an interesting grammatical element that language has synonyms, right? But, unfortunately, academics aren’t that educated to know this, right? Sorry to say, but, so, so, therefore, you know, we have to wear, we should be wearing dress casuals, okay? But, has the consciousness changed in them saying that we’re not fanatic and we’re engaging this in Krishna service? Where’s the focus? It’s that they’re saying not to change the form, but they’re changing form. They’re only dealing with form. So, they’re saying, dhoti is, or, we should dress casuals. But, they can’t tell the difference that we’re dealing with clothes.

And, what’s the purpose of clothes? Right? You know what I’m saying? Why does, let’s say, somebody wear, you know, a, a formal, you know, what do you call those? You know, those gowns?

What do you call those? You know, like you wear to a ball. Yeah, an evening gown. Okay. Or, they would go out in, you know, a pair of, you know, mini shorts and a tight tank top. What’s, what’s, what’s, it’s clothes, but what’s the purpose? There’s a different mood. Yeah, there’s a different mood. Okay. And then, so, it’s the mood that changes the form. But here, they’re only looking at form. They actually don’t know that clothes has a principle. And, and that principle is, is reflecting a particular mood. So, the point is, is that one, the principle is one should dress like a gentleman. Right? A cultured person’s a gentleman. So, how does a gentleman dress?

So, dhoti or dress casuals, it’s a matter of being a gentleman, not a matter of, you know, this is, this is good and that’s bad, or this is fanatic, or this is, this is reality, or this is what everybody accepts, and this and that. Does that make sense? So, the problem is, is the focus is on the form. So, they’ve changed the form, but they haven’t changed the consciousness. Because the consciousness is what’s pleasing to Krishna, not what’s pleasing to the mass of people in America. And the mass of people, strangely, don’t wear dress casuals.

It’s a very small percentage that wear dress casuals.

Does that make sense? So, this is the problem. In the name of universal, you know, equanimity, that it’s not actually there. It’s simply one’s own personal attachment and one’s trying to give a philosophy because one’s false ego is, you know, too big.

Does that make sense? Yeah, that’s the point.

Okay, so here’s, through worship of the spiritual master. Because the spiritual master represents the Lord. And so, that’s, that’s the, let us say, you want to learn martial arts. Okay? And you have a purpose that, you know, you’re tired of walking, you know, back home after school and being beat up every day. Right? So, you go down to the martial arts school or the studio and you learn martial arts. Who do you learn with? Right? Huh? A teacher. Okay. Now, you’re dealing with the teacher in what would be what you’re aiming for, the real life situations. So, if you don’t practice it properly with the teacher, are you going to be able to use it in, actually on the street? No. So, without the teacher, it’s not going to work. So, the point is, is it’s a position.

Right? Does the teacher become the street? No. So, the point is, is the guru is not God. But the point is, is since you want to deal with God, you have to practice on somebody. So, if you don’t practice on the spiritual master, where are you going to practice?

Right? But because people focus on the form exclusively, they think, well, how is this guy being worshipped like that?

Right? So, it’s just due to only seeing form.

Right? That’s the point. This rock actually is Krishna’s body. It’s Krishna.

Right? But how many, how many, how many aspects of my life can I connect to this rock?

Right? Minimal. But like to a living devotee, I can connect a lot more.

So therefore, one does like that. The rock is not necessarily going to tell me much. I do something wrong, it won’t say anything.

Doesn’t mean I won’t get reaction, but, but the spiritual master will tell.

Right? You’ve made that relationship. Somebody else, let’s say you have a good friend and you do something wrong, he may not tell you.

Right? You know, and you’ll go on in your ignorance and years later then you find out what an idiot you were. Why didn’t you ever tell me? He says, you know, it’s just because, you know, you don’t listen. You know, I could have told you, but I didn’t want to start a fight. You know, I got other things to do. Right? But the spiritual master, he has to tell you.

Right? That’s his job.

Does it make sense? So, it’s not a matter, well, who’s this, why that, and their respect, and because they got so much respect that’s why they fell down. It’s got nothing to do with that. That’s called authority issues.

Right? What we’re talking about here is that the transformation is tamed through worshiping the spiritual master. What’s the most important thing in worshiping the spiritual master?

The Vapu or the Vani? The Vani. And when people complain about this process, what are they complaining about? Vapu. So that means they’re looking at the lesser of the two and lose the whole process.

Because instruction is good. Right? We can even take instruction from a dirty place. Right? Even a sinful person, you can get good instruction.

I know myself, I got the best instruction ever on not smoking from a chain smoker.

You understand? So you do have that element. Even if you want to say, no, but they’re not pure, still, it’s good.

You understand?

So the point is, is why we’re discussing this, we’re not going into detail, is the point is, is there are principles at work here that are much higher than us and our own social considerations and attachments.

Right? That there are principles here that it’s God’s system. And if we accept that it’s God’s system, then we’ll figure out how to operate it properly, how to connect it to the Lord. Otherwise, we won’t. We’ll simply look at these external forms and then we’ll be playing with the tree in the water.

You know? And then we’ll be going around from tree to tree in the water. Well, that one’s not very… Oh, this is a nice tree in the water.

So if one carries out the orders of guru, then he becomes free from the modes of nature. Right? Because Krishna says surrender to him, but that means through the devotees. Because there’s no such thing as directly surrendering to Krishna. It doesn’t exist. Not for jivas. Radharani is directly directly surrendered.

But that’s it.

Right? Mother Yashoda has a direct relationship but it’s in support of Radharani’s relationship.

Right? Sudama, Sridama, Subala, they directly deal with Krishna. But it’s in support of Radharani’s.

Jivas are all connected with these devotees. So we’re only assisting them in their service that’s either connected directly to Radharani or indirectly to Radharani.

Right? Does that make sense?

No?

Verse 26 should not be interpreted to mean that on the jiva…

that the jiva loses its individuality on the state of perfection. Srila Prabhupada explains.

Yeah. That means that he’s saying about… He at once transcends the most material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman. So that doesn’t mean he becomes merged in the Brahman. Prabhupada explains. To be in Krishna consciousness or in devotional service means to acquire equality with Krishna. The Lord says that His nature is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. And the living entities are parts and parcel of the Supreme as gold particles are part of a gold mine. Thus the living entity in His spiritual position is as good as gold, as good as Krishna in quality. The difference of individuality continues. Otherwise there would be no question of bhakti -yoga. Bhakti-yoga means that the Lord is there, the devotee is there and the activity of exchange of love between the Lord and the devotee is there. Therefore the individuality of two persons is present in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual person. Otherwise there would be no meaning to bhakti -yoga.

If one is not situated in the same transcendental position with the Lord, one cannot serve the Supreme Lord. In other words, unless there’s common ground, how is there relationship? So all living entities have a relationship with God because God is Brahman and the Jiva is Brahman. So that means every living entity has a natural relationship. But to act within that relationship, then you have to work on the common qualities beyond that because Brahman is not enough. Brahman is just the generic element, the one that quality is applied.

Then that’s where the individual relationship then is manifest.

So therefore, unless there’s an equality within relationship, because Brahman is just the situation, what about Cit and Ananda?

So Krishna is Sat, Cit, Ananda. And the soul is Sat, Cit, Ananda. Brahman simply means one’s eternal existence.

So when Sat, Cit, Ananda is the basis then it becomes transcendental relationship.

To be a personal assistant to a king, one must acquire the qualifications. Thus the qualification is to become Brahman or freed from material contamination. It is said in the Vedic literature, Brahmaiva san brahma-pyeti One can attain the Supreme Brahman by becoming Brahman. This means that one must qualitatively become one with Brahman. By attainment of Brahman one does not lose his eternal Brahman identity as an individual soul. So here then, we’re taking it where you’re Brahman, so that starts, so that’s just knowledge. But Krishna is acting on the platform of Brahman. So when we can act on that platform, but we can only get there through devotional service. So we have this knowledge but it has to be applied with devotional service.

So the first chapters, they’re explaining your techniques of connecting everything to the Lord. The body, mind and words to the Lord. The middle chapters are explaining that devotional service is the most important element in that connection. So you’re taking your activity, you’re connecting to the Lord. It’s the connection that’s primary, the method of connection that’s secondary.

Now these chapters are explaining how you actually make that connection.

Right? Because just like I want you to do something, I have to explain the importance of doing it. Then when you’re inspired, then I can tell you technique to do it. But if I start off with technique, you know, who’s going to be interested?

Nerds, yes. So that would mean that we have a very large field that we may be neglectful of preaching.

That’s that.

After reading verse 26, someone may ask why Krishna’s devotees should attain only the impersonal Brahman and not Krishna himself. The Lord answers in verse 27. Krishna is the basis of the impersonal Brahman which is immortal, imperishable and eternal, and is the constant constitutional position of ultimate happiness. Thus attaining Brahman in this case means attaining the qualification for performing pure devotional service to Bhagavan Sri Krishna. So we have to understand as we use these words that we have to be able to deal with them in the variety that they are there. You know what I’m saying? Like that. Is that the tendency as we take words and give them a specific connotation.

Right? Which is ok for application in that way but the word also has its own meaning separate from that connotation.

Right? So we have to be able to deal with both if we’re being equal because the connotation means it’s a particular flavor that goes along with it. Right? So if we’re dealing with the element of equanimity then that means there must be the ability to use it in both ways. Yes. There is a very strong cultural conditioning amongst conditioned souls that they’re just culturally not comfortable with doing things outside of how they are grown up. Yes. So then we have the substance versus form where we’re really concerned with the substance and the form isn’t that much of an importance in conveying the message of Krishna consciousness and then we see that in an institution form is very important because there is tradition but part of the tradition is cultural conditioning.

Can be but tradition technically means that means according to the Shastra because you have Shruti which is the Veda and then you have Smriti which they call tradition and so we see the Smriti Shastra is discussions between great sages and that’s documented as Smriti.

So like here Krishna and Arjuna are discussing so this is Smriti. So Smriti is why it’s called tradition is because how the great sages and saintly persons follow the Veda that works it’s efficient that because it works that is handed down that becomes tradition but if one doesn’t know the reason for why they are following that particular form then it becomes just tradition then takes on the element that it’s just a form that’s followed but no one knows why that’s then where you come into the element is why do we have to do this but if you’d ask Narada Muni he could tell you why you have to do it but you know Mr. Agarwal can’t explain to his son why he should do it so then the son has a tendency to reject so tradition means it means like you do something you get up in the morning you do a particular routine because it works so tradition means it’s actually practical we have a tendency to say tradition is not practical simply because we don’t know why they did it but if we actually know the science then there’s no there’s not a problem with that so the form is important because it’s how you express the principle because the principle is actually the devotion to Krishna the Krishna consciousness but all consciousness is only effective in a relationship if it’s expressed so that expression is the form and so those forms that are best at expressing that’s tradition but it’s not that another form couldn’t be used but unless you understand the principle and how the principle is connected to the detail which you’re using as a form then one will have missed the point the example we gave before is that do you wear the devotional clothes or do you wear the how do you say the what’s the there’s so many karmic clothes that’s not politically correct your civilian clothes or your what do you call that army has a name for it but then again what’s devotional about the clothes you see plenty of people wearing dhotis and saris but they’re not very devotional but the point is is that why would one even no, why would one even consider wearing a dhoti what’s the consideration because people grew up in a certain geographic no, no, no what’s the reason geographical location but then you know what if you grew up you know in you know how you say Spanish Harlem so then that would mean you know or in Harlem itself so that means you get a pair of pants that are very baggy they drag on the ground you pull them right down to your hips and you pull your baggy underwear up to your navel so they stick out about 3 or 4 inches give yourself a very large chain you know and all this and that and so that’s how you would dress you know what I’m saying so why don’t they preach that one why only dress casual you know nerds you know at the university they wear suits shabby but they wear suits why don’t they preach that you know what I’m saying you go you know so many cultures and that that kind of like drives the economics and all that they wear all brand names why not that but if somebody wears a brand name oh that’s not devotional so why is it you know what I’m saying it’s just when I hear devotional clothes it’s like you’re saying this is devotional brick or this is devotional hardware it is devotional brick because you’re not see because you’re only seeing form yeah what makes it devotional the connection to Krishna right so why why a dhoti you’re not making the connection you’re just seeing as a piece of cloth because Krishna wears one you know what I’m saying the point is is someone that you value one of the things that happens is you know you want let’s say you want to be associated with Krishna so you try to come up to the same kind of and cultural environment that Krishna functions in so Krishna wears these kind of clothes eats this kind of food lives in this kind of environment deals with this environment in this way so someone who wants to be in that environment it’s natural they would do that everybody who is into something they do that that’s how it works right the advertisement has some big guy you know standing there and selling that and because he uses that deodorant I would want to use that deodorant right so you get it you get into schemes you get into all the things what are all the names what are all the different things what are the good you know what are the top guys use so you get into that whole culture so it’s a matter of that culture is connected to Krishna modern academics will work very hard to break this down because of their own mundane attachments and mundane vision but that doesn’t mean that that attempt is not materialistic it’s purely materialistic it has nothing to do with devotional service in fact they’re so unintelligent they can’t actually see the reason behind this that what I’m talking about now that there’s a culture naturally if you want to be with Krishna you do things Krishna would do it’s true you could use anything connected to Krishna but they have no idea of the science and they’re not doing it they’re simply wearing mundane clothes that’s all and like you said the mundane clothes of their background that’s all so the point is one has to be able to distinguish that there’s devotional service and then there’s the science of how to connect yourself to Krishna and then to be able to discern in the field what are the different details and then what would be more favorable or less favorable so if there’s a situation in which by wearing karmic clothes then that would be more favorable for the Krishna conscious development then you’d use it but your reason is because of that but all these people that are saying that I don’t buy for one second that it’s not to do with their own attachment because go to any community where they talk all this stuff see what they wear and then go down to the local supermarket and see what everybody else is wearing you can tell a devotee a mile off no? the karmis can tell so what would it matter if you’re wearing your baggy t-shirt look like a frump or you wear a sari they’d probably like the sari better no one likes frumps that’s the point because you don’t want to be Krishna conscious yourself because you’re just trying to be practical so in other words they’re missing the whole point of the essence of Krishna consciousness because the Krishna consciousness is how substance and shadow work together but the point is that shadow is a reflection of substance so the point is what makes dress casual stand out over street wear what’s the difference the one is a street guy and the one is not a street guy what do you call the guy that’s not a street guy he’s a gentleman the guy in the street is not a gentleman you know if you walked up to the gang guy there and told him wow excuse me sir talk to him like he’s a gentleman you’d get offended you know just like you call ladies in America you say ma ‘ams I’m not ma’am you know you know what I’m saying so the whole point is the element is that what makes the difference is that if one’s culture then one’s not by standards that are not set by the local culture but that are set by the principles of human behavior so therefore and that is coming from religion and that’s coming from God so that’s what’s being missed so gentlemanliness is established by God it’s a quality of Krishna and so it can be found in the dhoni and chudder and how it’s properly worn it can also be found in other clothes but unless you know that what you’re looking for is gentlemanliness then you’ve missed the point and you’re fully absorbed in the external and it’s fully mundane because the point is to look like a gentleman in Prabhupada’s present devotees used karmic clothes a lot but they either wore a dhoni or they wore a suit devotees used to when they go from one temple to another they would wear suits while they were out hitchhiking and they got rides you know what I’m saying because the point was to look like a gentleman Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur had people that were dressed in three-piece suits with spots because they looked like gentlemen yes, suited and booted it was called you know what I’m saying so that’s not the problem we don’t have any problem with this the point is we don’t have the problem it’s these particular devotees they have a problem because they’re attached to their conditioning and they want to somehow or another say their conditioning is perfect and it’s the only perspective no, the perspective is God’s perspective you know, you need to work on that great but how do you define karmic clothes?

you know what I’m saying it’s so different depending upon the particular culture so that means but if you dress like a gentleman it cuts across all cultural boundaries but if you wear anything other than that you fit into a specific category and your limit is in that category and that’s it you know what I’m saying if you put on, you know, the pants and the chain and all that and do the walk how many people on the corner are going to take your book? but if you dress up very nice and look like a gentleman you can approach anybody this is the principle that’s what the institution is establishing but because of our conditioning we miss the point and we think the form is the all in all but we’re dealing with shadow that’s not form substance is the form it’s reflected in shadow so you have to know what the reflection is you know, when you look in the mirror and you got something in your eye unless you know what an actual eye is and fingers and all that you can’t deal with the reflection because the reflection is not an eye there is no eyelash in the mirror it’s only a reflection of the original form so the form, clothes are from the spiritual world not from here because the jivas are from the spiritual world therefore they relate to clothes so even the most simplest aboriginal they have some form of clothes no one walks around stark naked no one they have something because the soul relates to that because that’s what’s in the original that’s what’s in the substance the problem is we take the clothes in the shadow as primary and then we misrepresent the philosophy and we say the primary is the most important thing the secondary, the form is not important but why are they saying that? they’re simply saying that to establish that the particular form they’re into is okay they’re not actually talking philosophy it’s justification of their attachments yes it’s just justification so that’s the thing so why go through analytically studying this so that we can actually discriminate these things otherwise it’s very bewildering just like you have devotees who say oh I don’t trust even Prabhupada’s books because people will means I’ll read them myself but if someone else discusses because you could take it and use it in any way but that’s why the study of scripture is there under the spiritual masters that you learn how to discriminate when somebody is speaking dharma but using it to support artha the person is he wants to get his work done and so he’ll quote dharma to someone who’s inclined towards religion to get him to do what he wants but he’s not actually talking dharma he’s actually talking niti so he’s using so to be able to discriminate that that’s what Gita is showing to be able to tell the difference so that one will not become confused then you can take that they’re you know that they’re speaking for the platform they’re at that’s why Krishna says in logic he’s vada or siddhanta actual conclusion but Prabhupada gives in the purport he talks about two other forms there’s about 17 forms that he brings out two other forms that are most prominent one is vidanda which is just expert in how do you say rhetoric you’re just expert in arguing so you may win the argument but what you’ve said is not has anything to do with actual reality you’re just good at argument or jalpa which means you say things that support both sides you know that’s the modern thing of just you know you say it’s something that everybody can relate to and you know compromise work out like that but it’s still not siddhanta so Krishna’s only one is actual siddhanta all other forms of the experts of argument are mundane so just because they’re good at these kind of arguments and they’re playing to the mundane sentiments of others it still doesn’t make it right just they’re good at it that’s all you have to give them credit for that my mind always tries to justify when I use my ability to analyze and to study like preaching strategies and scenarios there’s sometimes a borderline issue between analyzing a scenario and being critical or maybe slightly offensive towards a person who is engaging in those types of practices could you shed some light on what’s the difference between the first defense against the holy name of the lord and having to see what works and what doesn’t work and why it doesn’t work and what we can learn from it because when we’re engaged in teaching that’s one of the requirements we have to show by the way it’s being done the way it’s not being done and what are the dangers but then sometimes one side’s examples names are quoted for historical reference of people who might still be alive and not that just people take offense but we’ve got conscience and we’ve proved the sadness in our hearts yes, the point is is this chapter is talking about is the modes of nature and the first thing it’s pointing out is that you have the field and you have the the knower of the field so the knower is two the soul and the super soul and the field is the body and so you only have to mention the body because it’s the body through which you relate to the world so everything in the world is connected to your body so the field is operated by the modes and the soul not being the field is not actually connected to the modes but because of our identifying with the field we, like the field come under the control of the modes because material energy functions by the modes that’s just how she works that’s the mechanics so if we identify with it we come under those mechanics so if we don’t identify with it we identify as the soul then we can see the modes working but when we identify and we see the Lord and we’re servant of the Lord then we can overcome them so the point is is what’s happening here is that those persons that we’re discussing in this particular thing connected with the clothes then they’re not actually doing this that’s the modes of nature because the soul’s not involved the soul’s pure so if we see that then they’re not implicated in this all it is, it’s a matter of if you identify with the field then you’re going to come under the modes and so this is one of the ways in present day one of the prominent ways in which someone gets distracted and thinks the modes of acting under the modes is fine but actually acting under the modes is never fine you’re supposed to see yourself in the Supersoul so if you see that then because you have a relationship with the Supersoul so therefore what are you going to do in that relationship so one of the aspects is going to be you wear clothes so you’re going to wear clothes that would be indicative of your relationship with the Supersoul and so the important element is what’s pleasing to the Supersoul and then application means time, place and circumstance so that means what you’re going to wear right now what do you wear right now this moment that would connect you show your relationship with the Supersoul that’s what you’re trying to do so whatever that happens to be if it’s applied in the moment that works but otherwise then if we’re talking 20 years in the past you know what I’m saying then we’re out of touch it’s not in the moment the moment is right now it’s on the 11th of the 2nd so 20 year lag is a bit off you know what I’m saying so the difficulty comes is that one should analyze it one has to analyze it in this chapter according to this approach because you have to differentiate so what’s happening is this mistake is being made because the individuals are not making this distinction between the knower of the field and the field they’re identifying with the field and as you say because they have a particular condition nature in this field they’re comfortable acting according to that conditioning but the problem is that’s not enough that’s just mundane but if you’re approaching Krishna you see the Supersoul and so then you either are engaged in karma yoga, jnana yoga, jnana yoga that combination as buddhi yoga or in pure devotional service means you’re going to take ok, I identify with this aspect of the field but I’m not actually that so I’m comfortable with that so since I have to express my relationship with the Supersoul the easiest is through my conditioning but I’m starting with my conditioning and then through naiskarniya I’m giving the results to the Lord so therefore I would wear the dress gradually but I’m seeing it actually in connection with Krishna I’m not just talking because I just don’t want people to leave me alone and not say I’m immaterialistic pure devotional service would mean you start with Krishna is there I want to please Krishna so what’s available in this situation then this dress casually would be the thing to use so you’re actually dealing with three completely separate things though the ultimate what you see in form is the same it’s the same pants same shirt same belt same shoes that doesn’t change but one is karma one’s karma yoga and one is pure devotional service right it starts with me it ends with me it starts with me ends with Krishna or it starts with Krishna and ends with me so that’s what these chapters are trying to define and so then here it says because this is superior knowledge then how to apply that means the first thing you do is split yourself you’re the soul and there’s the field and you’re not connected and then there’s the super soul who is the controller of both and my relationship with the super soul not with the field and so from that perspective it makes it much easier to deal with if you’re on the level of buddhi yoga that you’re dealing in naish karma instead of in sakhana or that you’ll then take from pure devotional service and then engage you know your particular conditioning in the lord’s service so if it’s explained that way then you can deal with anything there’s no topic you can’t deal with and no offenses there because the soul’s not actually the one involved it’s just a matter of due to their lack of understanding they position them or situate themselves in this way but it’s still the soul is pure but he identifies with this therefore he gets the reactions of the modes so we want to avoid that you know so it’s not through the modes that we’re wearing so then that means it comes down because ultimately then within it is that okay then is it the choice of the clothes or is it the choice within the clothes you know what I’m saying means because otherwise then how broad is it because then there’s clothes right you know and so then you can choose anything anyway but the point is then what is more efficient for the situation if it’s service to Krishna what clothes would be more important and so if it happens to be dress casuals but then now your individual choice comes what things within dress casuals you would be comfortable with you know you like pleats you don’t like pleats that’s your choice you know because I’d be more comfortable wearing that so wearing these clothes I’d be able to pull that off nicely in that situation but Krishna says those clothes are the things that would work best in this situation you understand but there pulling it off is no this is the thing but why that what’s the principle that makes dress casuals stand out amongst all other forms of clothes what makes it stand out why what’s the principle that they can’t explain they just say people are more comfortable which people you know which side of the wall at Santa Monica are the people because if you weren’t dress casuals walking down you know Venice Beach people would think you’re weird you know but go you know a few hundred feet that way so you’re in the neighborhood right then they’re going to say oh you know here’s a gentleman you know you look out the window and you go oh you know here’s somebody who belongs here well if you wore the other street clothes then they start locking their doors and you know calling 911 you understand so then if you have somebody in the building who’s running around in a construction site where they lay iron and you know they have to do all that stuff then you feel like it doesn’t match it doesn’t match if they don’t know how to wear it because you also have to take very much into consideration that besides the clothes is how you wear the clothes because the guy who stands out is not that he has the clothes it’s how you wear it you take you take the same clothes and put it on the guy you know the one that bought it and you look at the poster that you know those you know two thousand dollars an hour models are wearing and they look a lot different the model looks really good and the other guy he looks stupid right same clothes why? because the one knows how to wear it so you also have to bring into it is that the dodie and chutter you have to have a little bit more finesse you have a little bit more refinement it looks really good you don’t then it looks a little slovenly and it gets in your way but it’s just a matter of what getting in the way you’re used to because if you bend over your hat does fall off on the construction site so you have to know how to do that so in the same way as the dodie the chutter all these things you have to know how to wear them you know because the the the pants and the tank top the girl plays with that as much as she’d have to play with the sari but she knows how to play with the tank top and that she doesn’t know how to play with the sari therefore she’ll say the sari’s not practical and the tank top is but she plays with it just as much how to establish a culture and an environment of education where those things are not just taught as a crash course so people can get a few more tools in their toolkit but where people actually find a little program and they yeah they go for yeah it’s the Vedic system of education means you teach the lifestyle means you teach the philosophy and you teach the lifestyle that matches it because the two go together the lifestyle without the philosophy that will be sentiment and the philosophy without the lifestyle that’s mental speculation so that’s why there’s so much mental speculation on this right the devotees they have philosophies why they wear karmic clothes the Indians just they like it it’s cool that’s it there is no philosophy just they like it that’s all you know but the western they have this whole philosophy why they gotta wear it so that’s mental speculation because there is no culture you know so the lifestyle has to be taught along with it you know that that’s that’s the thing it’s the the lifestyle is not included then you won’t know and the lifestyle means the principle of it so this is where that person gets it right they understand Vedic culture is based on principles this is somehow another you know when it ends up then they end up with something weird but it’s the principles you understand the principles then you can make either work you can make the Vedic forms work or you can make the western forms work but you don’t know the principles you can’t make either work so because the principles primary and the details secondary so until you know what’s the prominent just like in kshatriya if you ask most devotees what’s a kshatriya protection will not be the word that comes out of their mouth but Manu says that’s why Krishna will give so many details and then he’ll say give it in essence he already explained the modes and he’ll say goodness is enlightening passion creates misery and ignorance creates foolishness because of all the qualities that are there this is the prominent point this is the principle point the others are details that come from that so the principle is not there so if you’re teaching to be a kshatriya it’s protection that’s important so not necessarily martial arts or you know really good bureaucracy and you know this and that no you know how to protect those under you and then everything else you can get someone else to do you know you can hire security people you can hire office people and accountants and all that but you know how to create the environment in which everyone’s protected but others will think no because I have a computer I have email I have an office and a desk I can push send button therefore I am an administrator and they’ve missed absolutely the total point so that’s that’s the whole thing is that if that’s not if that’s part is not understood and taught you can’t apply it and therefore you have philosophy with no no religion because religion means what’s the inherent nature you can’t separate it but if you don’t know how to connect the philosophy and the religion then you’re going to either have sentiment or mental speculation that’s the difficulty so the two are trained together so that’s why the Vedic system is is that you go through it and go through details until it’s understood how to apply it and people practice it so shravana you hear manana you contemplate and you practice so what you were talking before is how you think about it and all that’s manana because in there you’re not just going to contemplate it and speak it and that’s it you’re contemplating and practicing so when you speak it that’s shravana for the others but for you it’s manana the second stage of education because the idea is you know what your goal is and by practicing manana that gives realization so that’s what the goal is right and then that brings you to the point where then you teach right so the teaching is on the fourth stage but you’re practicing the second by going through it because what you contemplate is what you speak what you practice is what you speak does that make sense so that’s the Vedic educational system the modern is shravana that’s the end all and be all you get a degree because of you know how well you heard and how well you memorized and how well you’re able to regurgitate that’s all and then postgraduate you throw a little bit of mood in but there’s still no practice you have a particular perspective of shravana so that’s why we can’t take the modern educational system as having any substance you know so five day seminars ten day seminars so that’s based on the modern not that the devotees couldn’t use it but in that five to ten days you have to teach what is the practice and lifestyle that goes with it yes people including devotees because devotees are also people are looking for the goods they want the substance and if the form is slightly inadequate or sometimes really deficient they’re happy if they get the substance if they see somebody’s got the juice they go into that but a lot of times the form is more important yeah no it’s always see the materialist will take the form as important because why because if the material world is a reflection of the spiritual world there is no mood of the spiritual world so all you have is the form reflected and it reassures them it makes them feel comfortable yeah because you start because they identify with the field so therefore you have to start with the field but you have to show how the field is connected back to the knower of the field so that means defining seeing it in relationship to the soul and the super soul it’s not seen in that connection then you haven’t actually given them anything because technique is okay but the technique is still based on the Lord because the super soul is sanctioned the super soul is entered the super soul is interacting with his energies so it’s not the soul doing anything so what even the materialist is dealing with is still the Lord and his energy and so if he acts in a way that technically is correct in line with how the Lord deals with his energy and he’s doing that in the external manifestation he gets the good result and if and the farther away he is with how the Lord is actually dealing with his internal potency he gets no result so even to be a good materialist you still have to know this science so there’s no kind of like question of getting what because it’s Krishna’s world it’s Krishna’s laws so you follow his laws it’ll work on the level of materialism it’ll work on the level of spiritual it’ll work on the level of devotional so since you’re going to have to do the same contemplation same endeavor same knowledge why not get the devotional result rather than these other two inferior you know material prosperity or liberation because devotional service already includes the other two you know if I could invest 10 rupees and I can get back 12 rupees or I could get back 10,000 rupees or I could get back you know you know a crore of rupees what would the smart man do but it’s the same 10 rupees and invest it in the same way so that’s what’s being recommended but otherwise even to be successful materially you still have to follow this because it’s God’s laws it’s not anyone else’s they make it sound like that the western world functions separate from God’s creation but that’s protestant philosophy the deified God he’s the creator he’s the controller actually all the what’s it what do you call it Abrahamic yeah Abrahamic religions and their origin the Zoroastrianism they they all deify God he created it but he’s not he’s not in control and so someone else’s control because God is good so therefore bad things happen so God can’t be in control so they separated that we’re westerners we’re modern so we’re actually different from what all this Vedic stuff says but the Vedic is just saying what’s actually going on it’s God’s creation this is what’s happening but they in illusion think that they function separately than God’s creation God’s laws and so they’ll think that there’s a different consideration and that consideration is simply their circle of Vox Populi that’s all you know whether it’s you know a community of one or you know it’s a little dark does that make sense so the Shastra is for studying the laws what is the field what is the soul what is God you know Chit Achit Ishwar that’s all that’s all that’s being studied then you’re going to engage in a process in that so it could be Karma Gyan or Bhakti and you’re going to get a result which could be Karma Gyan or Bhakti but the field is still the same you still have the field of activities you still have the soul who’s involved in that and the super soul who’s sanctioning so you could either see it in God consciousness and therefore get the perform the activity and get the devotional benefit or you could do a not God consciousness and knowledge get liberated or you can do in ignorance and get your material benefit but the process is still the same still super soul sanctions still it’s the Jivas involved and it’s the material field that’s transforming that won’t change but they’re thinking that actually we’re dealing with some different substance so it’s actually atheistic you know so so we’re actually being nice when we’re just saying it’s you know a point of discussion if we really wanted to make the point straight it’s actual straight up front atheism no ifs, no ands, no buts because unless you accept God and his creation and the soul as they are you’re an atheist so they’re devotees so we know they’re not atheists but what they’re speaking is atheistic philosophy and so therefore just discussing it you know in a seemingly more you know neutral point is that there’s a devotional and then there’s the you know these engaging the modern like that is actually it’s a matter of understanding the philosophy properly or atheism because their application of these things much of the time is not theistic it’s atheistic but other aspects of their life are connected so chanting Hare Krishna is much greater and more powerful because it’s direct than their misapplication of something indirect that they say is for Krishna and not connected at all so you know and that they may be doing most of their day but still you know dealing with you know 22 hours of how you say illusion doesn’t equal two hours of dealing with substance so if nothing else and they just chant their rounds still that’s more powerful than all that illusion so that’s why they remain situated and they move forward but at the same time as you know as is explained it’s not that they’re pulling out the weeds so the weeds are growing so you can’t guarantee that that what they are doing that’s direct will be continuous that’s why Krishna is saying it’s this has to be continuous and so continuous is only there if it’s not stopped by an artist is that okay? so if you view it like this then you can explain it very nicely because you’ve separated the soul from the field so you’re talking about the field so it’s not offensive to the individual because generally if you approach the individual they’re a great devotee you know but you just put them in their conditioned environment and that’s when things start to go weird and I tell them what’s going on like a debrief after a game you know this move that that this is on this is off and some people like it and some people are very upset that how can you no it’s a matter of the person who is in this stature or position but the point is why was the person doing it? the person is there I mean I take it in your it’s in relation to book distribution okay so they’re there distributing books why are they distributing the book? are they there for their own name fame and glory? no they’re out there because they want to please Prabhupada right? but now the technique they’re using may not be very efficient right?

maybe not even Krishna conscious but the point is is their purpose is that it should be but the point is is that’s what we said is the philosophy and the culture should match then it’s more efficient in other words they distributed books in those ways and it may not have been the ideal but they did advance you know but at the same time as it’s not sustainable because the culture that they’re using isn’t of a quality that is sustainable they’re using a temporary culture so that’s what’s not sustainable but if they understand the principle behind it because the point is is if I’m not the doer the other person’s not the doer so that means if I’m not to blame the other person’s not to blame and so the soul is respectable so that means that other soul that I’m dealing with that may seem to be in all these caught up in all these modes that’s simply because of their consciousness but actually the soul’s not but they deserve respect like any other living entity so if I deal with them through respect which is our philosophy I won’t do all those other techniques so it’s because of not understanding in other words they were Krishna conscious but not Krishna conscious enough to actually be able to see in other words the principle of their Krishna consciousness was fine but in detail they were unable to see that Krishna is in the detail otherwise why does he say I’m the strength of the strong and I’m the you know the taste in water in other words all these things so you know what makes the sail is Krishna so the point is is the closer it’s brought to the natural form then that’s sustainable so that’s why you have book distributors that you know they were distributing books in the 70s and they’re still distributing books why? because they’re seeing more the principle on which it’s working and the guys that last for three years they were seeing some of the technique but they were not able to make that full connection to Krishna you know so they did good for that and then there’s others that got neither you know so it’s a matter of understanding its whole connection if it’s something quick but if it’s not then don’t know John! yeah thank you very much good to see you how long have you been here? I’ve been here approximately three months oh okay very good good okay so you’ve been here since the beginning oh good good good good good good good good in other words you just take it back to the philosophy but actual get into the metaphysics make the mechanical connections because that’s what devotees means they have the philosophy they have this but a lot of times they connect to sentiment which is okay if it’s direct because direct you know the sentiment is the strongest element but when you’re dealing with indirect elements sentiment’s not enough you have to know science and that’s and as you said you have to speak about the moment because it’s the moment that’s important if I just quote people that are dead you know then how many book distributors oh Burimanta did this that one did that you know I wasn’t there there’s no video recording so if you want to have a live person that means you actually got to get into the scenario but we’re disassociated from the philosophy yeah but at the same time it’s because the material energy doesn’t change yeah the modes are there so even if you do have let’s say enough information about let’s say Burimanta’s technique yeah if you take the principles of it they’ll still work now they work but the detail may not work because that’s always changing you know it’s just like people are attached to their families that’s going on today a thousand years ago they were attached but how they express that attachment that’s different today than before but if the attachment is to the form like people are very attached to the airports and once the airports turned rotten you know and it was time to just let it go and move on people weren’t ready to move on and that’s why they were facing serious heat because of yeah no the point is wherever is the opportunity that’s what it says Jare Deko Tahikaha you know it means wherever you are wherever you meet that’s who you are so if you can’t be at an airport you meet people somewhere else you know I mean in LA it means there’s a lot of people at the airport there’s a lot of people in the street well we say quit while you’re ahead but that’s hard you know because if you’re still if there’s still some juice flowing or some money still coming then it’s hard to see the signs and kind of move on but money’s the principle yes so money’s going on everywhere means there’s guys down at Venice Beach making money yeah you know and there’s you know so you know there’s guys advertising all over the city making money and there’s guys at the airport well if one is not that connected with the super soul how does one realize when it’s time to move on that’s why we read this that’s where we’re supposed to study that’s where the temples are supposed to be teaching this yeah that you get that connection and you get that sign and you feel that when it’s time to move on to the next because that’s just working in the moment level because mode of goodness means working in the present yeah so what works in the present that’s what you use so that may change but we can’t get attached to what we call as present because as soon as you’re attached it’s already past that’s what I’m saying most devotees who are talking present they’re functioning about 20 years in the past they’re talking real 1980s stuff yeah I mean political correctness in the form they’re talking is 1980s yeah some of it come up in the 90s but it’s not nobody cares gives a damn about political correctness you know what I’m saying it’s just what works that’s all they care about you know they have their life and they’re looking for some real answers we have the real answers they’re talking all this mumbo-jumbo that you know they’ve already been through that the substance is here the goods are here the question is do we have the Krishna conscious mindset in order to deliver it according to the need of the situation and the person which may require a slightly different vehicle a slightly different you know it just it means it requires this principle yeah as it is this is actually how the material world functions applying it to the specific situation of that particular country that particular city that particular service that’s the detail that’s what each individual has to work out you know or if there’s someone who’s a leader in that field they’ll lead it the principle is prashadam but the masala might change according to the local taste and requirement yeah but the point is if it’s not done in Krishna conscious it doesn’t matter what you change it doesn’t it doesn’t fly yeah because the point is let’s say devotees are you know cooking and eating what do you call it vegan but why are they eating vegan it’s because of the consciousness not because it actually is required in the situation yeah you know what I’m saying let me say oh these are the vegans this and that okay that’s when you go to the program at the temple Krishna is not a vegan yeah you’re like that you know why can’t you explain our philosophy our culture no because they buy that that’s pramana so they’ve taken shadow and try to make it into substance so all their talk about philosophy is simply trying to because the shadow is reflected from the substance they try to equate the two in one sense they are but in another thing they’re two different things so they can’t tell the difference where they’re the same then they’re saying there’s a difference and where there’s a difference they’re saying they’re the same so that’s called ignorance because religion then becomes irreligion irreligion irreligion well then there are the devotees who just take protected milk not other why because the point is protected but the point is is it doesn’t matter is that whatever it is it’s offered to Krishna and so then whether the cow has been dealt with nicely or not nicely if I offer it to Krishna that cow gets devotional benefit but people who speak of sentiment their sentiments are violated you know because their sentiments are violated but at the same time but if they don’t offer the milk then not only are their sentiments violated but the cow gets no benefit so the point is is if you can get milk that has been grown in free range and all these nice things great then offer that to Krishna but if you don’t have that then other milk works if you don’t get your own cow get your own cow that requires too much of a commitment and people don’t want to do that so they take their philosophy and say you know I don’t want to mistreat the cow I don’t want to drink milk from this cow yeah yeah but the point is is you know they don’t even know what they’re doing guaranteed I can guarantee you 100% they’re mistreating their girlfriend because they don’t know what a woman is so they’re mistreating their girlfriend so there is violence there is violence there’s always violence one living entity lives at the expense of another that’s the way what is it jiva si jivanam yeah means Manu says that one living entity lives by eating another there is no other method so therefore we move ourselves up to the higher end where there’s the minimum amount because that’s the name of the game even though you play it nicely you have to eat point is is that cauliflower would grow and turn into seed and grow more cauliflower but you ate it so those generations of cauliflower that would have grown you ate you know what I’m saying so like that that apple that would have turned into an apple tree that would have grown so many more apples and grown so many more trees but you ate it you know so there is no question of anything else so the point is that’s just the way it is now you work within that according to God’s law and then there’s no sin so the point is is no sin not a matter of my sin because why did it come to that well nowadays the world is just sentiment and emotions that’s all there is so that’s why the justification but but the point is is it’s not even real sentiment because real sentiment would be progressive if it’s sentiment in the mode of goodness it would be progressive but it’s not sentiment in the mode of goodness so therefore yeah then it’s in the mode of goodness because otherwise then it’s like this the guys that keep the cows for the milk whether they get milk from it or they eat it it doesn’t matter to them at all so you buy the milk then they milk the cow you don’t buy the milk they simply grow them and eat them anyway so they’re going to eat that cow anyway you know whether you buy the milk or not so the point is is you buy the milk offer it to Krishna that cow gets benefit you understand yeah by going vegan you can reverse the cycle yeah yeah I used I made my bed out of screws brass screws because the covering that kind of silvery coloring there’s some crazy kind of you know metal that you know this long of a name that you know it’s very detrimental to the environment to mine and process and everything like that but you know they’re perfectly those vegans they’re perfectly happy to screw that painting into the wall you know with that that screw you know so I mean at what point are they going to see that it’s not you know and they’re on their computers but if one thing’s bad it doesn’t justify another thing that’s bad so where do you yeah so the point is why that one why did they pick that one that’s why I’m saying it’s a conditioning because why did they pick that one you know what about those you know poor guys in China that made those blue jeans that they’re wearing you’re not worried about them why just the cow here or why you know you know something else why did they so this is pranamoy and pranamoy pranamoy means extended subscrutification and in that you have two kinds saurya or you have ganapatya so saurya means all life you know so they’re not like that you only get a few of those real nutty you know like that so their specific group that they’re worried about and that’s it and they couldn’t care less about anybody else it’s the whales and the seals and everything else it’s like that ooh careful you okay you see wearing a dhoti it can be injures hazards I would say it was more the bricks and the rocks that he was taking care of because these are designs that you are you insured here for any yeah so so the problem is is they they put their sentiment into areas that in principle is okay but they don’t see the principle so they don’t actually get the benefit because unless you see the principle and it’s working you don’t actually get much benefit you only see detail you don’t really get yeah you know it’s just like the mother cooked for the child so the principle is that affection is why she’s doing that the child just sees what’s there and just eats it and then runs off so it’s not until he’s 30 that he actually understands what happened so that meant that 25 years he’s not actually getting any benefit from the relationship well he could have been getting benefit all that time if he understood that it’s due to the mother’s affection that she’s cooking all these things so if you know the science then you get so much more so that’s that’s the difficulty the point you made is good because a lot of these philosophies that come up or whatever movements are taken on by the young and they don’t realize and then they get to a certain age and they have a child and the child is sickly they give up their veganism and they start eating meat again so it’s not it’s not completely a principle because or the principles change because they say my child is more important than 10,000 cows and so you know I have to give him meat or whatever they think is important so they worked out you eat 10,000 cows in your lifetime or something I hope not but you can’t it’s very difficult to argue with younger people because they are so but you have to cut through to the principles see the point is means this just takes us into a slightly different topic which is related but this concept of soft preaching is that soft preaching is because they simply see Krishna consciousness as a form a form and so they want to change the form and then and use that as the medium for a preacher and so then that’s called soft preaching but actually the only thing that’s universal because then they’re just switching from one condition what they consider one condition element to another but the only thing that’s universal is Vedanta so you have to cut through that because the stuff that we’re talking here about the field the soul the super soul you know the mind the modes of nature you know like that the laws and all that that you can talk straight to any karma that has any bit of a brain who likes to think you know ok a mudha may not work then you use a little bit more simple and a little more sentiment but anyone with any brain which these people claim to have and they generally exercise you can talk straight Vedanta to them and they’ll buy it no problem the problem is these devotees don’t know our philosophy they’re not trying to apply it and to preach it in a straight forward way because it’s all academics it’s not actually grounded and it’s not how to convey it to other people it’s strictly for self you know use so it becomes an armchair or but even if they used it just for the self because that’s then it wouldn’t work because Krishna’s saying there’s nothing bad there’s nothing totally bad about anything because everything’s connected Krishna but the problem is let’s say the armchair speculator the concept that he thinks knowledge is an important element and that you contemplate things that principle’s good his problem is he won’t apply it and the other person is you know why all this theory let’s just get down and do something so that they’re you know they see that action is the only way to get results and that they are willing to work hard that’s good but if they don’t actually know the field properly they won’t get the result that they’re actually looking for you know they’ll get it but it’ll still make them miserable you know and the lazy person he doesn’t want to get involved because it’s too much trouble that he doesn’t want actual trouble that’s actually an okay principle but you’re not going to get no trouble by doing nothing you can get no trouble by being Krishna conscious so the principle the actual principle on which everybody’s working is fine but the problem is they don’t actually know the principle they’re working on so therefore they can’t connect it to the philosophy so people do Bhakti Shastra and they learn the field but they don’t work the field later on meaning it’s like a person studies farming but doesn’t go farming what is the method that people used for Bhakti Shastra you understand it’s modern academics so modern academics is there any clause in there that it should be applied no means you have your alternative schools you know and they what’s why they’re alternative because there’s a concept of a lifestyle though they may not know you know your Summerhill and your Steiner and all these other particular schools because they’re trying to deal with the culture their approach you know we may or may not agree with but the point is there’s a principle there’s something beyond just the academic so they’re using a purely modern academic approach so that means it excludes its application so how were the preachers trained traditionally were they just trained in Siddhanta or did they have a specific training in going out and doing the preaching means you first start with means depending upon what you’re doing it means you start with the simplest elements that they can apply immediately and then as you go you give them more and more complex elements but the practice is going on all along because even when the brahmacharis go out for bhiksha and for begging they’re supposed to chant some mantras or say something shravana is always heard first because manana includes the application but that’s after shravana so if you haven’t heard what would you do so there must be training but at the same time it’s not that the training is complete then only there’s practice the training also includes the application so let’s say you know a trainer goes to a place and teaches something but it’s not that when he ends now that’s the end of the education no he’ll come back later and it’ll continue so in other words he’s taught you something now you apply that when he comes again he’ll take you further so it’s ongoing so there’s no such thing gurukula means the gurukula the brahmacharya means that your focus is more on the practice and training but then under the teacher but then after you graduate from that one moves into the grihastha ashram then you’re still working on that principle you more have to apply it yourself because you should have come to some level of maturity that you can so once you can that’s when the process starts so there is no such thing as someone goes to the bhakti shastra the bhakti shastra learns it and then they come and they become the official teacher because unless they can apply it then why would they teach so they’ve they’ve heard so they’re a potential teacher but when they can apply it in manana then they can do shravana because unless you’re practicing it how do you show others how to practice it so the modern is if you’ve heard then that’s all that’s all that’s necessary but there must be there must be application so bhagavan when you’re saying that the devotees they don’t know our philosophy actually you mean this they don’t know detail all devotees know the essential points that technically is enough to get them back to godhead they know they’re the soul they know krishna is god they know that the ultimate goal is to please krishna to develop love of god and the process is chanting hare krishna so just with that you can go back to godhead i mean we’ve seen devotees in the past have gone like that and they weren’t working much beyond this so it does work but the point is is as you your material life becomes sophisticated so should your spiritual understanding of that because if you’re materialized that means you’re dealing with a greater shadow so if the substance you’re dealing with doesn’t match then how does that work you know you know you have a little one year old baby here and you have goliath you know as a shadow it’s not going to balance you know so so that’s the whole point is devotees many times you know at least that are a little more intellectual pride themselves in their sophistication but their philosophy doesn’t match so if so when we say oh so you have to learn all this to go back to god no this simple devoting

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