Right? Does it make sense? Because if one can’t see all of this, then there’s a problem because what do we see? We see the situation there and the activity that’s being performed. Right? And so therefore that will be enough for us to decide this is bad. Right? But what we’re not seeing is consciousness.
Because if you think about it, the situation you’re in is based on what?
What generates the situation you’re in at present?
Yes, previous consciousness. And depending upon your present consciousness is your activity. Right? So your consciousness defines your identity. Your identity defines the activity. Right? Gita Pradesh mentions that someone’s good or bad, it doesn’t actually matter. No one makes any comment. It’s only when they perform an activity, then you comment. Right? Someone can be bad, but if he does nothing, you won’t say he’s bad. Or someone can be good, but if he does nothing, you won’t say he’s good. But as soon as they do activity, then you’ll say good or bad. Right? So the activity there we see is based on the nature.
Right? But the nature is based on consciousness.
This is the settled point. Because all through what Krishna’s bringing out in the Gita, what’s the difference, you know, between the material activities, karma and jnana, and then karma-jnana yoga, and then ananya-bhakti? What’s the difference between the three? Consciousness only. The activity may remain exactly the same.
There won’t be any difference.
So this is very, very important to note, because the forms in that are ways of expressing the consciousness.
But the most important thing is the consciousness.
Because now, what means devotional service at the stage we’re at, what do we call it?
Sadhana. It’s practice. You understand? So what does practice indicate?
We’re expert. We’re good. Always consistent. We’re learning. That’s the whole point. So sadhana means that it is in the practice. So you’re trying to do it, but it doesn’t necessarily always work. So what would define whether your sadhana is good or not? What would actually define?
Yeah, advancing, but how would you see, because how would you tell advancement? Advancement might be, OK, they’re becoming steady, and what’s going to actually define? Let us say you have a person who’s never regulated their life, and someone who, you know, as a materialist, is a very regulated life. So now if they take up sadhana bhakti, what’s going to be? How are the two of these persons going to be able to perform their devotion, their sadhana? Will there be any influence of their previous nature? The organized person will be organized in his sadhana. The unorganized will not be, at least in the beginning. So how do you tell someone’s actually well situated?
Change is there, but even let’s say they haven’t changed, what will cause the change?
Proper consciousness. You understand? So that’s why Krishna says, even though he’s performing improper activity, he’s still rightly situated. So Krishna’s talking about the consciousness is correct, but the activity is not yet.
That’s very important. But will, does that make sense? Very, very important to catch this, because if you don’t catch this, you’ll actually not understand what the Bhagavad Gita is about. If you don’t understand what the Bhagavad Gita is about, you won’t understand what any other book in the Vedic literatures is about. Because Gita is the essence. It is the Gita Upanishad. So it is giving the essence of the Upanishads. The Upanishads are giving what is the essence of the Veda. So what the Gita gives, what the Vedanta gives, what Bhagavatam gives, it’s all the same. But Gita is giving it in a form for beginners, while Vedanta Sutra is already for someone who’s more developed. The same knowledge will be studying after six years, Vedanta Sutra.
Because then it’s much more technical, things are known and everything, and one can work with the sutras like that. But Gita doesn’t work in sutras. It spells it out very clear.
So this is important. So consciousness is the essential element. That’s why our movement is for Krishna consciousness.
It’s not for international society, for great sadhana.
It’s for consciousness.
That’s what defines.
So now, because of this difficulty between the consciousness and the activity. In other words, we think the consciousness is correct, but the practice hasn’t caught up with it yet. The ideal is consciousness is there, practice is there, and it’s good. But if it’s not, so now what’s the first thing we’re going to think? So Viswanath Chakravarti Thakur, in his comments, then he says what we would think. He says, but considering his bad conduct, how is he a devotee? That’s the first point. Because they’re looking at the conduct, because you’re going to judge someone by their activity, which is fine. But we’re dealing, if you’re dealing in the material platform, that’s 100% correct. But we’re dealing on the spiritual platform, so consciousness can change, but habit is still there.
So it may take some time between the consciousness change and the habit being able to be changed.
Not that it’s good, but Krishna’s pointing out, even if it’s not good, it’s still rightly situated. So they’re still saintly.
He has to be respected as a devotee because of his devotee qualities. It is a command, not doing so as offense. My order is the authority.
So Krishna is just saying, this is the way it is. This is what I say it is. So you like it or not, this is just the way it is. You don’t follow it, it’s an offense.
So you can say, oh, but the activity now, this and that, all these things. You can go on and on and on, but that’s your opinion.
You can back it up with so many different things, but it’s still our opinion. Then there’s God’s opinion, because Krishna will say in the Gita going through, he’ll give lists. You know, you do like this and there’s so many ways to do things. And then either by being asked or he will just state himself. In my opinion, it’s this.
Because there are so many ways you can connect, because we were discussing before. Brahman is there. You can see the energies and the qualities of Brahman at work. You know, at work means what they’re doing there. But, you know, nothing’s happening. Right. But they’re at work. But it doesn’t. But they’re still generic. They’re a quality. Right. The quality is originally from Krishna. So it’s Krishna’s quality. But qualities can be seen without seeing the person. That’s why it’s the lower level. Right. And then Paramatma, you’re seeing the involvement of the Lord and his control of the world. Right. So that’s higher. So now you’re seeing the person is controlling and running the place. But still it’s lower. It means it’s higher than Brahman, but it’s lower than Bhagavan because he’s doing it based on what? Why does Krishna sanction and get things done in the material world?
Because it’s a living entity’s desire. So that shows his position as a person, how he’s taking care, even if we’re not favorable. He’s still taking care. But it doesn’t bring out what he as a person actually feels and thinks and how he wants to act.
Right. Does that make sense? So that’s how there’s the natural progression through these stages that one will understand the Brahman platform. So one will see Krishna in it. So it will purify the existence. So it’ll purify the situation. It’ll purify your vision.
But you still have the element of you still have the element of that. There’s the activity, how you’re going to interact. And then is your interaction based on your need or on Krishna’s desire?
So there’s a natural progression. So you can’t say, oh, I’m seeing the Brahman element. So that’s good enough. No, it’s a start. And it’s a good start. And so it’s situated like that. One can’t say this is wrong, but there is higher of right. Just like there’s wrong, there’s degrees of wrong. So there’s degrees of right.
So in other words, you have the generic is that it’s right because it’s according to Shastra. It’s wrong because it’s not according to Shastra.
Or within Shastra, you have higher levels and lower levels.
Dharma is higher. Nitya is lower. But still, it’s Shastra. So you could say it is pious. Nitya is pious, but it’s not as pious as Dharma. But now here, this is because you’re following Shastra. You’re following authority, but it’s still generic. It’s just being good, doing the right thing, being a good person, being dutiful.
But now, what’s the cause of you not following Shastra and being impious?
Why wouldn’t you follow?
What would be the reason? To enjoy, but what’s the inspiration?
There’s enjoyment still here is generic, right?
Faith in another’s, but who’s having this faith?
In other words, who is being sinful?
Who is being pious? The living entity. So why is the living entity pious or not? What does it come down to?
Free will. And so that means his independence, right? So that means it’s according to his desire, right? By desire, he’s pious. By desire, he’s not pious, right? So the piety is the center ground, right? Now, Krishna consciousness, what does that mean? What are you acting according to?
Yes, the will of Krishna. In other words, Krishna’s desire, right? So Shastra is the middle ground. You follow that, that’s pious, that’s good. But if you follow that to please Krishna, then that brings it up to the transcendental. You follow it just for yourself. Then it keeps you within the material and lower. But now if you just do things to please yourself, it drops it out. So it’s not pious anymore.
It’s sinful. Now, if the devotional, if you do it just to please Krishna and you’re not worried about Shastra, then what is that?
Sentimental? OK, that could be. But let us say that it’s what you’re doing is authorized. It’s bona fide. But your reason for doing it’s not because Shastra says. It’s spontaneous because it’s something that pleases Krishna. You understand? In other words, the residents of Vrindavan, they’re spontaneous. Everything they do is according to Scripture. But their reason for doing it’s not Scripture, like in Vaikuntha. Vaikuntha, it’s following of the rules. That’s the is the medium for expression. Well, Vrindavan, it’s simply the spontaneity of just pleasing Krishna. So we understand here. So the essential point in all this is who you’re pleasing. So you’re pleasing Krishna or you’re pleasing yourself.
Right. So the overlap is Shastra. Right. The Vedic culture. That’s the overlap. So you could be following Vedic culture to please Krishna or following it to please yourself. But it’s still considered properly situated. Right. But now if you go outside of this, then if it’s for pleasing yourself, you drop out of that. So that becomes dangerous because then there’s no position to really interact with others properly. The whole society falls apart. Right. Or you do it to please Krishna. You’re only acting to please Krishna. So it drops it out of that form. But because it’s in connection to Krishna, it works perfectly.
Right. So in other words, both are spontaneous, but one is spontaneous, transcendental and one is spontaneous, mundane.
We see. So the whole thing is this consciousness.
Right. So the consciousness then generates the desire.
So that’s why then one should see this very thing. So here in this, it’s not because Shastra says the Shastra will go generally upon what is done. Because otherwise, how do you see consciousness?
Right. If you’re dealing with a with a general living entity, a pious living entity, you’re dealing with Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. So then someone whose consciousness is in Moksha will perform activities of Moksha. So is Dharma will perform Dharma, Artha, Artha, Kama, Kama. Right. And if someone on a higher level performs a lower level, it’s still within the material realm. So it gets a reaction of that.
But when you’re dealing with consciousness that goes beyond these four. It’s in a different category. So even though by habit, one is still working within Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. Its purpose is Krishna. So therefore, one has to see that element. And so this is not just Shastra point. This is Krishna’s command. So it goes beyond.
Him as a person says this. Because the Shastra may say otherwise, because Shastra is generally written for someone with material consciousness.
Ultimate purpose isn’t. But it’s written through the medium that someone in mundane consciousness can relate to it.
So Krishna continued. So he should be considered devotee in that proportion. Oh, no, no, no. This is someone else. So this is, I guess, Arjuna again. This is a conversation between Arjuna and Krishna. Right. So then Arjuna says, OK, so he’s a devotee. He says his conduct is bad, so he’s not a devotee. Krishna says, no, he’s a devotee and he must be accepted that way. So then Arjuna says, OK, so he should be considered devotee in that proportion, proportion that he worships you. And as a non devotee in that proportion where he commits adultery. Right. In other words, OK, what he’s doing wrong, that’s wrong. What he’s doing right, that’s right. OK, because otherwise our tendency to throw the whole thing out. Right. Right. He’s in this case using the element of adultery. So then he’s involved in adultery. So therefore, he’s just bad. He’s not a devotee. He’s nothing.
Right. But Krishna doesn’t agree. No, he’s a devotee. Oh, then we’re adjusting. OK, he’s a devotee, but he’s only a devotee. How much he’s, you know, doing this. You know, he’s not very strong in the sadhana and that. So that’s really bad. But he’s committing this. So that’s the greater thing. You understand? So this is how we’re trying to rationalize and justify it. Because we’re working on what platform here. Right. Generally on the element of justice. Right. Not even necessarily dharma, because then it would be consideration. OK, what is his condition nature? If he’s a Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaiseshudra. Right. Is he, you know, how is he situated? Because then you would deal differently. But but in this case, one’s not looking at that one. One is looking at simply the element of justice. So it’s just, you know, activity is wrong. It doesn’t matter who’s doing it.
Does that make sense?
Then Krishna says, no, he should be considered as a devotee, Eva, in all his parts. You should not see his bad qualities at all. He is completely convinced. Samyak vyavasita.
He makes a splendid resolution. I will go to hell for my sinful actions, which are hard to give up, but I will not give up dedicated worship of Krishna. Right. So in other words, here, Krishna, that person whose consciousness is right.
Right. Then he’s he’s supposed to see the good qualities. Because that’s what will inspire. Because then if you’ve seen the good qualities, then you will see how to help help situate them so that that will come out. So Krishna doesn’t agree with me, though we’ll say, but how can he do that and have the proper consciousness? But then what are we saying by that? If we actually analyze it, he’s doing this activity. How could he have this consciousness? What are we actually saying? What’s the bottom line?
Yeah. Devotional service is generated from good activity. So in other words, karma generates devotional service. So in other words, ultimately, we’re saying matter generates transcendence, you understand, because we’ll identify the soul with the action which is being done by the body. So that means matter is is is generating conscious. He’s performing bad activity. So he must have bad consciousness because matter generates consciousness. Right. That’s the that is how what mundane consciousness means.
Yes.
Well, in this case, is that when we’re talking about when to reject someone, it means the spiritual master, the disciples you’re talking about when the consciousness is not what Krishna is talking about. In other words, activity may not be good, but consciousness is. But if the consciousness is lost and one is committed to material activity, then at that point, then the material consciousness and the material activity match. So therefore, you take them in that way. But as long as the consciousness is transcendental, then it’s not within the realm of mundane karma. So that’s still changing. It’s more the consciousness, because even the chanting and these things are activities that you’re going by. See, in other words, it’s not by the activity. It’s by the consciousness. So in other words, only by discussing with the person, would you actually be able to tell like that?
Does that make sense? That’s a fine point. So it’ll it’ll come up. It means right now to see now. Don’t worry about. No. But what is this? Don’t worry about that. Worry about what’s going on because it’ll be dealt with. What if how then one should not misuse this? That will come up. But the first thing is to understand the position of it on its own. In other words, if the consciousness is Krishna conscious, one is rightly situated.
This is the important thing, because if you can’t understand this, then how are the gopis out dancing with Krishna?
Because technically, what’s what’s wrong with that? You know, what’s right with that? You know, what’s what’s the problem here? It’s against scripture.
So how would you define it? But we’ll accept that. No, because consciousness is fully Krishna conscious. So we don’t think the gopis are sinful because they’re out with Krishna or the Krishna sinful. Right. Because consciousness.
So that same principle applies here.
There’s no difference. So that’s why consciousness has to be looked at. That’s why when dealing with devotees who are having difficulty, one looks at the consciousness and then cultivates from there, because that’s what can change. Right. Because the dynamic point is, is depending upon the consciousness that will define their activity. Right. So the consciousness is Krishna conscious. That means by cultivating the Krishna consciousness, you can change the activity. Right. But we know by the definition of material price chitta, that it’s like the elephant. The elephant takes a bath and throws dirt all over themselves. Without Krishna consciousness, you can’t really change, not in a dynamic way, the material activity. You’re talking about thousands or millions of lifetimes to completely change the consciousness.
Right. So the element that by the person’s consciousness, you know, needs support. So therefore, through a material situation that has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness, that is going to generate better consciousness. What are we saying?
We’re saying karma is the cause of bhakti and that consciousness is generated from matter.
Completely, totally bogus philosophy, totally bogus, nothing, nothing of value in it at all, but very readily accepted.
Of course, if you want to find some value, OK, you want to find the situation. But the point is, is the situation should be based on what’s going to improve consciousness, what’s going to cultivate consciousness.
That’s the first thing. Then you look at back at the activity, because this is this is the difference. And why is this being discussed here? It could have been discussed down in the in the third chapter or in the fifth chapter. Right. When we’re dealing with karma yoga. But why is it discussed in the chapter on Ananya Bhakti?
Because consciousness is what makes the difference between karma yoga, jnana yoga and pure devotional service.
So in here, it’s a matter of the consciousnesses first. Then you have the activity. Right. This is this is going to be the conclusion of Gita. Sarva Dharma Pratyaja. Right. Is that you give up all these other aspects and surrender to Krishna. So the consciousness should be completely focused on Krishna. Then you’re going to do an activity for Krishna. So that’s going to engage your nature.
So if it’s if it’s constitutional, you’ll be acting in that way. It’s conditional. You’ll be acting in that way. But the point is, is you’re engaged in your nature in Krishna’s service. That’s the bottom line. We’re not caring whether it’s spiritual or material. The principle is the soul is engaged in Krishna’s service.
Does this make sense?
So that’s that’s what we’re trying to bring out. Right. Because that’s that’s that’s the that’s what’s trying to be what we’re trying to get at. But we’re looking at for many different ways. So this is called vichar. Vichar is looking at the same thing from many different angles so that you get a more complete picture. More. Yes. Can you define what is consciousness in comparison to mind?
OK. What is consciousness? Consciousness is the natural, you could say, perspective of the living entity. Right. Because set sheet and under such shit means consciousness and knowledge. So that’s that’s what was being brought up in earlier chapters, that you can cross. Your mundane.
Needs and desires by relying on transcendental consciousness, which includes a transcendental intelligence. So you can see that in this situation, this is what I should do, whether you do it or not. That’s another thing. But you can see that this is what should be done. Right. So that’s how choice is there, just like within the material. You can tell the difference between a pious and an impious activity or a pious and a more pious activity.
Right. So the same way is you can tell the difference between spiritual and material if you’re aware of it. Right. If you’re aware, then it’s there.
It’s it’s. Yeah. Well, it’s just your consciousness.
Yeah. Would be your awareness because your existence is not an existence because that’s sought. You know, that’s why I said, you know, the principle of eternal. That’s Vermont. So living entities, Vermont, because he’s eternal, but he’s being defined as Adyatma because of his activity, what he’s going to do with his eternalness like that. So depending upon his desire. So the consciousness is going to affect desire. So the point is, is that it’s just like, you know, example, you want to do something, you want to learn to ride a bicycle. It’s not that or probably gives the example of walking the child. The child wants to walk, but it’s not that they’re the most expert at walking. Right. So they get up, they fall over. So you can say, wow, this this is this kid’s really not good at this. You know, so you could criticize and say, no, but the consciousness is wanting to walk. So you encourage the walking and then they become expert to walking. You don’t say, oh, well, you’re not good at this at all. So, you know, she just, you know, let’s be let’s be honest here. Let’s let’s let’s be truthful and straightforward. I’m just speaking what I feel here is that you’re terrible at walking. So why waste your time and everybody else’s? You know, I mean, we’re perfectly happy sitting here on the couch watching television. And then you have to get up and walk and fall over on your face. So we have to stop watching television and get up and go over and help you. So it would be a lot better for everybody. You wouldn’t get hurt. We wouldn’t miss our program. So just better you don’t walk.
Does that make sense? So that’s modern reasoning. And being truthful and straightforward and all these so-called wonderful platitudes.
But not so well thought out. So in other words, the consciousness is good. So you encourage that which will develop the consciousness. Then automatically the problem of not walking well will go away. So, in other words, if the consciousness is having a problem, it’s not a matter of, oh, you’re nonsense in this. It’s a matter of putting him in a situation in which the consciousness will be enhanced. Just like Prabhupada, some senior devotee would have problem. Then Prabhupada would take him with him as a servant. So he’d get good association. He’d always be preaching. He’d always be in that environment. And then when he’s stable and steady, he’d go right back to the service that he was doing before he had problem.
But our modern solution is they’re having a problem. Take them out of that. Have them do nothing. Stick them out in the middle of nowhere like that. And then somehow or another, that’s going to generate this fabulous consciousness in Krishna consciousness.
The consciousness will improve. Krishna consciousness will happen. But you can see it’s absolutely, totally mundane, bogus concept. It’s not spiritual in the least, because its concept, its faith is that matter is the source of, how do you say, benefit, rather than Krishna is what makes matter work.
So we’re dealing on very low levels of consciousness here, like that. Basically, a combination kind of between Vaisheshika and Jainism, Karma-Nimamsa.
Is that just, you know, matter is generating spirit, and by dealing properly with matter, you’ll get all the benefits. And even here, it’s not even positive, because then it would be, you’d be in a pious situation doing good activities, and that would develop your good fortune. But here it’s removing any possibility of doing an activity, and somehow or another, expecting results to come. So this means we’re not only dealing with bogus, we’re dealing with foolishness here.
Because no intelligent person, no successful person will ever agree to doing nothing gets you something. It’s your endeavor that gets you the result. So to say they’ll do nothing, and we’ll get a fabulous result, that means they don’t even know how the material energy works, let alone the spiritual. They don’t even understand material. So what are they dealing on?
Purely their own feelings and emotions, their own sense of justice.
But you put the seed in the ground. So that’s the point. You do the thing, and the result comes. This is like, you put the potato in the pot, right? But are you there making the potato get soft? No, it happens. So that’s the point, is how we can understand it’s not material energy that’s creating it. It’s God’s potencies that are creating the transformation.
So the material energy transforms because it’s a reflection of the original energy. So the original energy is working within the material energy. Therefore, the material energy transforms.
So that’s why we’ll say the material cause, because the heat and everything else caused the potato to get soft, right? But we put the potato in the pot. Therefore, we’re the operational cause. But the concept that there is cooking and you can go through this whole process, that’s based on the formal cause that Lakshmi has generated to obtain Krishna, in the form of whatever it is, something cooked or softness.
Does that make sense?
Could consciousness be defined as a value system? Could consciousness be defined as a value system?
You could, but then that means you have the element of realization.
But you can also understand that Krishna is God and therefore want to act, though you don’t have the realization. You know what I’m saying? There’s always some instance of this difference between jnana and vijnana.
So it would include that, but what I would say is that you would start with jnana. You would start with just the knowledge.
So in other words, the more vijnana, the more one will be stable.
Yes, he values it, but the point is he values it, but he may not be able to use it.
You know what I’m saying? But value in this case means here, it’s just value means you see the importance of it. But there’s a difference between seeing the importance of it and seeing the importance to the point where you’d want to apply it in your life.
Does that make sense? So that’s the difference between understanding and realization.
So understanding means there’s some value.
Yes? Yes?
It’s essential, but the point is that if you’re getting into that, then you’re talking about how they’re being purified and that they admit. And so we’ll say, okay, if he admits, but then shastra also defines who you’re supposed to admit to. It’s not to the general public. They’ll never understand. It’s only to highly qualified Brahmins, right? When they’re saying, Brahmins at a sacrifice, right? So this is not even common Brahmins. You’re talking about srotriyas here. Those Brahmins, if you go when they’re doing, let’s say, an ashram, made a sacrifice, you go to those Brahmins and admit your guilt.
Then you’re purified. Then at the end of the sacrifice, you take the avrabhita-snan with them, and then you’re free. That’s all it took. Because the common man will never agree to that. You have to get flogged or something. Otherwise, it just wasn’t real. Because matter generates consciousness, so therefore you have to deal with matter. Punishment has to be in the form of matter.
You understand?
Does that make sense? You use matter, you’ve done something wrong. So therefore, only by dealing with matter, then we’ll correct the situation. But what they don’t understand is matter does not generate consciousness.
So that’s why people may be punished and don’t reform.
Does that make sense? So that’s the difficulty of prayaschitta. So that’s the sixth canto of Bhagavatam. It’s basically defining that prayaschitta is useless.
It’s actually there for the materialist. Manu says, those things that are known in public, then you go through these observable forms of prayaschitta, as defined by the Brahmins and stuff like that. But it may be as simple as we said, just admitting one’s guilt. But those that are unknown, then the way to purify them is through increasing one’s hearing and chanting.
So that’s in support of what we said. Because only by increased chanting of the holy name, increased understanding of the philosophy, will you be benefited. So that’s there because the common person doesn’t know about it. So therefore, that’s the real way to purify yourself.
But if the common person does know, then they want to see some adjustment in the situation. But then that should be according to the qualified Brahmins. So this modern thing of, oh, but if we do this, though it would be nice and Christian conscious, but the general devotees wouldn’t understand. Who cares?
They don’t understand. What does that mean?
Whose business is it to make them understand? So you’re saying ignorance is fine. Ignorance is okay. Because they’re in ignorance. Therefore, we have to have a solution that’s in ignorance.
So that means you have to take responsibility and preach. You have to lead. And if you can’t do that, then you’re not the person qualified to make the judgment. Because only a qualified Brahmin can make the judgment.
That’s all.
Does that make sense? So we have to be careful that we’re not taking it into those realms.
Yes?
Can that be used? Can that be used? But what’s the point of it? Now, why would you suffer?
Okay. They’ve got you to publicly be, you know, announced and humiliated. So therefore, you suffer. But what makes you suffer?
Attachment. So that means you’re contemplating what you’re attached to. But in the negative way. So what’s your absorption in your consciousness? On the negative. On what you’ve done wrong. Not on Krishna consciousness, what you could do right. You understand? So the element that you feel bad that I have done something, but to dwell on it. Does Krishna say in the Gita to dwell on it? He says, you don’t lament when things are wrong, just like you’re not elated when things are good. But it’ll take it. No, you must lament. You must, you know, like this. Otherwise, you are not reformed. This is this is the mentality of Shudras.
Right. And we have to remember that this is. I’ll try to say this really nicely. But that Vaishya is a combination between the mode of ignorance, the mode of passion. So the element that keeps it makes them wages the mode of passion. But the element that throws them in with the Shudras, because when it says, you know, Mahabharata is for, you know, the Dvija Bandhus, the Vaishyas, the Shudras like this is saying that because why? Because of that ignorance.
So the Vaishya actually thinks, because I’ve done my work, I’ve got my result. So profit comes from my work. They don’t see the higher element because you can be a really good Vaishya and be totally sinful. Right. You can’t be a good king or a good Brahman if you’re sinful. But you can be a Vaishya and be an absolute demon. Because you’ve invested in something that you’re going to sell for more expensive than what you invested. That’s all. That’s all you have to do. So being intelligent, seeing opportunities for that, being enthusiastic, making the endeavor. So their whole point is that through their intelligence and their endeavor, they’ve got their result.
Does that make sense? So that’s why you see those who have a Vaishya mentality are one of the ones that are the most worried about justice and morality. So you have to see the background. If the person acts always according to Shastra, they’re very good. So it may be Dharma that they’re worried about morality. But that’s rare. I know one or two people like that. That they’re actually very Dharmic people. Because you see it in other things they do. They give big charity. They’re always there. They take responsibility. They personally get involved in anything that they’re responsible for. And if something goes wrong, they’ll take full responsibility. They’ll carry something through all the way to the end like that. Then if he’s worried about morality, it’s based on Dharma. But if they’re only worried about Dharma, I mean morality, and you don’t see that other side, that you’re dealing with a Vaishya.
Because they actually have faith that by manipulating material energy, you get results. So therefore, then they performed a bad activity, that would get a bad result. So therefore, they should be punished in a way that’s bad.
You understand? Because you should never be rewarded with good for bad. Because if you do, their whole economic system falls apart. I’ve worked so hard, I’ve gotten the money. Someone else comes and steals it. And then that’s bona fide. Then why I should work? Right? So it’s bad that he steals. So that’s why good and bad ethics and justice are very important for economics.
You understand? So generally, you’ll see a lot of those who jump up and down and all this is that because they have a Vaishya conditioned nature.
Or they can also have a Sudra conditioned nature. But generally, they only talk about it. They won’t be overly active in trying to get something done because that’s done by leaders. So if they’re just there in the community and feeling bad about it and all this, and lose their faith and direction and identification, then that’s the Sudra. But if they don’t lose their own identity, but they’re out to get yours, they’re Vaishyas.
Does that make sense? Or it can also be badly placed Brahmas or Sakyas.
You know what I’m saying? So therefore, you’ll also see it goes back to the nature. So they’ll think it’s universally understood, but it’s not. It’s universally understood because there’s lots of Vaishyas. It’s a bourgeois culture. It’s a Vaishya culture, so that becomes the standard. So we become used to that, become conditioned to that. But it’s not actually the fact. Philosophy is something else. Because matter does not generate the actual consciousness.
It does not generate itself action and reaction.
Does that make sense? So the real essential point is consciousness. So if you make an adjustment to the situation in which the consciousness can be enhanced, then that will be… And how do you enhance it? Through the five main elements. Those are direct. Those are going to have the most effect. So by being in the Dhamma, by chanting, by associating with devotees, by hearing Bhagavatam, by preaching, by worshipping the deity, these are what’s going to improve it. But what we’ll all say, no, out of the Dhamma, no deity worship, can’t give a class, can’t preach. They will let you chant your japa, but you shouldn’t be too loud, make yourself too known, like that, because you shouldn’t associate with devotees. So what has this got to do with Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. But because that is the conditioning of the bourgeois culture, therefore it’s being spoken. But philosophically, it cannot be supported.
Even shastrically, where’s the support? Because they’re not quoting māma.
So they’re simply quoting how they feel about it.
Does that make sense?
So these are different. And you’ll see is that then you throw on top of that other issues, like authority issues, issues of power, control, then it gets even more funny.
Because otherwise, if one respects authority, then one’s going to look at that element and deal. But they try to make these generic things that work for the new bhakta or work for the GBC. So that means, that’s bureaucrats, that means shooters.
You know, that person may not be a shooter, but shooter mentality.
The lack of being able to discriminate, that shooter’s not known for the intelligence, he’s known for the mind, emotions, the sentiments. So if you can’t discriminate between different persons and therefore different situations for them, for the same offense, that means you’re not dealing with intelligence, you’re only dealing with sentiment. That means you’re only dealing with the mind, which means you’re only dealing with shooters. Shooter mentality.
Does that make sense?
So that’s why Krishna then says, it is my command not doing so as an offense. It is that heavy.
It actually is that heavy.
Yes.
Reformation, yeah, eternal damnation. Yeah. Because that way it makes the other person, because otherwise like this, if he did something wrong and can be reformed, that means I could also do it wrong and reform myself. So then to maintain just some semblance of order, then you have to say, no, no, they’ll be eternally damned. And then you say, okay, then I won’t do it.
But you’re dealing with people of very little faith.
You know, I mean, historically means you have to look at it. It means, how long was Moses gone on the mountain?
Some days, right? And in that many days, they reverted from being monotheists back into pagans.
Just because he went up and didn’t come back, and we don’t know what happened. You know, they didn’t even think to send someone up to look for him.
You understand? They immediately revert. So this is the level of consciousness that you’re dealing with.
Constantly you see this.
Some other things just came up about that.
Oh, I think it was this.
Okay. Is that okay?
That’s there. But the point is that one wants to be in Mayapur, then that’s something special, right? Because the dhamma’s connected with the Lord. So just the desire to be there, that means it’s already special. Now, how much of the dhamma you appreciate, that’s another thing, but the point is you are in the dhamma. Even if you’re walking on the top, still you’re in the dhamma.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he’s not making any offense, so he’s getting purified by the effect of the dhamma. The point is, is the dhamma is the dhamma, even though there’s a covering. The covering doesn’t mean that the effect of the dhamma doesn’t come through. The covering means you don’t see the nature of the dhamma. It doesn’t mean the dhamma doesn’t have effect.
Does that make sense? So, even if you don’t appreciate, it still has its effect.
You know, that’s why when this bird leaves its body, then it gets liberated.
Because as an animal, you commit no offense, because they’re just performing their duty.
Does that make sense? Yes. So the dhamma still has its effect.
Otherwise, the scripture would say, you know, if one lives for, what is it? I can’t remember. Rupa Goswami or that going through. I can’t remember where he starts, but he starts at a certain amount of time and comes down in a fortnight, even a fortnight or night like this, then you get that benefit.
Otherwise, it would say, you get that benefit if you’re fully Krishna conscious. But we notice that the scriptures don’t give those points, because being liberated is no big deal.
You know, Haridas Thakur is making the point. He’s chanting one name in Namavas, you’re liberated.
Right? So that, you know, you’re walking down the street, you know, during Ratha Yatra, you know, there’s those drunk punks on the corner that are, you know, shouting and jeering, eh, eh, Hare Krishna, like that. They’re liberated. They’re on the liberated platform.
But, because their consciousness is such, they identify, you know, with the body and their activities. By habit, they’ll go back into their conditioned state. But they are liberated. If at that moment they understood, you know, looked at it in a different perspective, they just take up Krishna consciousness and continue.
It’s not… Devotee is another thing. Liberated is a different thing. That’s also, we shouldn’t equate liberation and devotion. Somebody who is a devotee is liberated, but someone who’s liberated isn’t automatically devoted. See, in logic, you have something goes one way, not the other. It can go both ways, or it can go one way. So this we’ll get into, you know, later. It means the… Analyze means, just like where there’s smoke, there is fire. But where there’s fire, there doesn’t have to be smoke. So fire is independent of smoke, but smoke is not independent of fire. Right? So if I said, there’s a mountain, and on the mountain there’s fire. So therefore there’s smoke on the mountain. That wouldn’t be a correct logic. You know, unless you’re seeing smoke. But you can’t have fire without smoke. But if I say there’s a mountain, and there’s smoke on the mountain, therefore there’s fire, because smoke is dependent upon fire. Right? And smoke’s on the mountain, so that means fire’s on the mountain. Right? A equals B. B equals C. So A equals C. Right? But you do have things where the two can equal each other, but only in one direction, not in the other. You know what I’m saying?
So that’s the difficulty we have. So what we have is that God is good. So therefore, all good activities are God. You understand? But what’s happened here is we’ve switched the definition of good. Good not being defined by God, but good being defined by ourself.
Right? And so therefore, yes, it’s good, but it’s a different kind of good. So that good is not equated with God.
You understand? So that’s why we have problem with the morality issue. Because our logic in dealing with this, it’s faulted. Because it comes down to our opinion. That’s why Krishna himself says, it’s my opinion. It’s my order. It’s my command. Because otherwise, he’ll say, no, but this is how I feel.
Does that make sense?
Yes? Just to clarify, does that mean if there is a devotee and he’s giving up the chanting and the association and all the external parts of the process, but they’re still identifying as a devotee, it’s just a matter of time before… Yeah. Then they’re rightly situated. So what should you do?
Yes. Like that. So that’s in they’re not involved. So that’s a matter of they’re not involved in the devotional process. But consciousness still they identify. That’s why you see devotees may not get involved in that. And then generally speaking, I’ve seen as maximum, it’s generally 10 years and then you see them back fully engaged. I haven’t seen it generally take… Some real determined guys it’s taken some of them.
Yeah, 20 years. Really, you know, I guess the bigger the ego, like that. But otherwise, they make back because the consciousness, you know, still identifies a devotee. What we’re talking here is that they’re engaged in improper activity, not that they’re not engaged in devotional activity, they’re engaged in sinful activity.
Does that make sense?
They would be called insincere, but then if we go by that, anybody who’s not, for many temple presidents, if you’re not living in the temple, you’re insincere. Right? So that’s the point is who defines sincerity? That’s the important element. So the good quality, sincerity comes from Krishna, but that’s why we say it’s Vermont, it’s generic. Because there’s so many ways that you can obtain sincerity.
What forms will obtain sincerity? So the sincerity itself is Krishna and the forms, they are Krishna’s internal potency. But by our consciousness, we can define them, you know, our value as different from that. The core of what we value is Krishna. But if we don’t see Krishna, that’s illusion. So based on illusion, then we have all our differences of opinion. So Krishna’s here cutting through that illusion and just saying, this is the way it is. Does that make sense?
OK. So no, he should be considered as a devotee, Eva, in all his parts. You should not see his bad qualities at all. He is completely convinced. Samyak-vyavasthita. He makes a splendid resolution. I will go to hell for my sinful actions, which are hard to give up. I will not give up dedicated worship of Krishna. So now Arjuna will say, how can you accept the worship of such a sinful person? How can you eat the food and drink offered by a heart contaminated with lust and anger?
Then Krishna says, very quickly he becomes righteous. The present tense is used instead of future to express the fact that having committed sin, by remembering me, he becomes repentant and very quickly becomes righteous.
Means he very quickly becomes righteous, means it’s present tense. Present tense. In Sanskrit you have anything that’s happening, happening just now. Like I can say, what are you doing? And you can, because you have your pen in your hand, you can say, I’m writing. But you haven’t actually written for 30 seconds. So technically speaking, according to English, you were writing. But according to Sanskrit, you are writing. Because that’s the activity that’s going on, even if it’s just past. You know, it’s just like if someone knocks, calls you on the phone, and then they say, what are you doing? But if you go back, what are you doing? You say, well, I’m talking to you on the phone. What do you think? But it says, you know, they say, what are you doing? Oh, I’m cooking lunch. Or, you know, oh, I was just putting the baby to sleep. Or, you know, like this. So, because it’s what’s just going on. So inherently, people understand it that way and use it that way. Though technically, you know, by non-scientific grammar, it doesn’t actually define it properly. So Krishna says, using the present tense instead of the future to say that he’s, it’s happening now. Not the, okay, in the future, he will become, because otherwise, our journalists say, okay, when he does become, then you could accept, but not now. But he’s saying, no, the process is going on now. Because he understands the position, he doesn’t think it’s good, therefore, he’s improving.
Because you’re talking about pulling out, you know, in this case, you’re talking about adultery here. You’re talking about pulling out the desire for sense gratification that’s been in the heart of the living entity since time immemorial. Right? Remember, Brahma is married. And that’s the first position the living entity takes when it comes to the material world. He is married.
You understand? So that means, since the day you came into the material world, right, then this desire is done there.
So getting rid of that, if it takes a little time, okay. As long as, you know, we see here, Krishna’s saying, because he is conscious, therefore, it is progressive. Right? He quickly becomes righteous. So quickly becomes righteous means his activity and his consciousness match. That’s righteous. So it’s not just he’s doing right activities, he’s righteous. No, his consciousness and the activity that are done, that’s righteous. Right? So, does that make sense? Right? So now let us inverse this just for fun. So, if that’s there, so now we’re saying, we’re, on the material platform, we’re saying, no, if he performs the right activity, even though his consciousness has gotten good, we’ll call him righteous. Right? The man is giving in charity to, you know, the young child, you know, the young orphan’s fund. But he’s doing it simply to get recognition so that, you know, the Congress will give him, you know, some certain facilities so he can set up, you know, this new business adventure. But they want to see that he’s a good person.
So, but you’ll call him righteous, no? Because he did the activity. But the consciousness wasn’t there. So then, why wouldn’t we call him righteous if the consciousness is there, though the activity’s not?
And of the two, consciousness is more important than activity.
Right? Does that make sense? Because consciousness generates activity, not vice versa.
Yes.
We’re saying here in this case is that the devotee, he’s Krishna conscious, but he’s engaged in sinful activities. So that means the activity’s not righteous. But the consciousness is. Right? Well, you can, on the material platform, we know that nobody actually is righteous because it’s all self-centered. It’s all personally motivated. So it’s not ultimately righteous. But the activity, the good activity, is there. Right? So the activity’s good, though the consciousness is not. Or, the consciousness is good, the activity is not. So by definition, if you can be righteous even though the consciousness is not good, then you should be able to be righteous by the consciousness being good and the activity not.
Does that make sense?
Does that make sense? So, so it’s obvious, okay, bad activity, bad consciousness, everyone will say that’s not good. Right? And good consciousness, good activity, everyone will say that’s good. Now the problem is it’s in between. So if we say, well, if the consciousness is not good, you know, therefore, even if he does good activities, it’s not actually real.
Then you could accept, okay, then his consciousness is good but his activity’s not good, so therefore, because that’s what Arjuna is speaking from. But we’ll accept one and not the other. But if you’re going to accept one, you have to accept both.
So it’s just by doing good activity, you’re righteous, so therefore, by having proper consciousness, then you would also be righteous. So here, when Krishna says he very quickly becomes righteous, means the external form will match his internal consciousness.
Because otherwise, sraddha, when it comes up, are you doing the activity?
No. But we call it face, so how can that come? Because the consciousness can change. So because of sraddha, then you’ll take up sadhu-sangha. Then what happens in sadhu-sangha? Then bhajana-kriya. And then in bhajana-kriya, anartha-nivritti. So if somebody has an anartha, what’s the solution?
Engaging them in service. In other words, bhajana-kriya in good association. You know, that will increase their faith because it’s increased faith that moves you from one position to the next. So if you want to get them from anartha-nivritti to nishta, means you have to increase the faith. Because that’s all that’s increased. Right? The equality of association of devotees is increased. So therefore, his bhajana has increased.
Then it becomes static. So if the solution’s anything other than that, basically useless.
Does that make sense? Yes. Maharaj, I don’t think that we understand. If a devotee has proper consciousness, but his past contaminations, they bring some harm to the society of devotees. How do you deal with that? But this is, now you’re taking it to another level. So then you’re equating that, OK, a devotee performs sinful activity, and then devotee, so that will be harmful to society, therefore this devotee is harmful for society.
But that’s a specific detail, no?
Yes. So we’re talking now still about the principle.
Is that we’re talking about how to engage the individual. So are we, is Krishna saying, no, no, it’s very fine, it’s OK that he continues doing this sinful activity, it’s great, no problem at all. Is Krishna saying that? No. He’s saying that by consciousness, then he’ll be rightly situated. Not by your material arrangement.
Right? No material arrangement generates consciousness. No material situation generates devotional service.
You understand? Here, when we’re saying consciousness, we’re meaning transcendental consciousness. The material situation can adjust the consciousness from one to another, you know, within dharmaka common moksha. So you’re anamoy, pranamoy, manamoy, vijnanamoy, that can be adjusted by the situation, because under the modes you’ll be influenced, but technically even there consciousness is separate. Right? Because consciousness is there even if there’s no conditioned nature. In the mahat, there’s polluted consciousness. Right? I’m the controller and enjoyer, but there is no subtle body.
Right? So it’s only when Brahma’s creation, then, the living entities manifest.
Seems to be more for the birds up here, because when we had the yajna, I threw the rice from here instead of down there, so there’s more rice in the rocks.
Yes, so these guys are eating akshata, right? You see? Auspicious rice from the yajna. That’s what they do as birds, right?
When you spoke about consciousness, it seems to me that according to our own level of consciousness, we can speak about that subject. Yes. That’s what Suta Goswami says. He says, just as various birds can fly at different heights, so according to my realization, then I will speak on the Bhagavatam. That’s why it’s that verse, I don’t remember all the, but it’s mentioning all these different persons. This one knows, this one may know, or this one, you know, doesn’t know, this one may or may not know. Like that. Hmm?
Yes, something. That’s one of those roots. Okay.
Is that okay? Move on. Yes.
So rationalization, that’s the problem. So you have to work on that rationalization. Usually these people, they don’t want to accept authority.
But that’s, that’s why Prabhupada uses logic. Right? Logic is the basic principle. I mean, when you’re dealing with the Vedic philosophies, what’s the first one?
Right? Jnana. It’s the first, because that’s the one basis that everybody can accept. It’s logical. Then you add things onto that. Right? You have logic, then you add onto that the, the, the, you know, the atomic theory. And then you add onto that yoga. So then you get Patanjali. Right? Then you add onto that and you get Sankhya. Actually, Sankhya comes before Patanjali. Sankhya, because it’s based on the other two. But it’s just going farther.
Right? Because for, for, for Vaisesika, everything’s atoms. But it doesn’t matter what kind of atoms it is. Everything eventually breaks down into atoms. Now it may be manifested in so many ways, but what does it matter? You’re simply trying to break everything back down into atoms. But Sankhya will define the different kinds of manifestations of atoms and the effects that they have. Therefore the atoms as mind has a particular effect. The atoms as intelligence has another effect. But, but Vaisesika doesn’t make this distinction.
But Sankhya will. You understand?
So, so, therefore Nyaya is the basic thing that everybody, logic, that’s why probably we use so much logic.
But he wouldn’t use so much grammatical logic because English is, doesn’t have a grammar.
So, it won’t really mean anything to people to use the logic according to grammar. But it’s very clear. Because anything you speak is based on, you know, what you need to communicate. So, therefore language is designed to be able to communicate all the human needs.
So that, that means according to grammar you could define anything.
Right? Because the grammar is used to explain what you want to explain. So, if you just take it a step back, then you’re dealing with the logic.
Okay? Then, Krishna is saying, oh, Oh, how unfortunate I am! There’s no one as low as I, bringing bad name to the devotees. Repeatedly he feels completely disgusted. Or, the use of the present tense can indicate that in the future he will develop righteousness fully. But even right now it exists in a subtle form. Right? Because something to manifest, it has to start from something. So, there must be something there to work with.
After taking medicine, though the destructive effects of the fever of poison remain for some time, it is not considered seriously. Right? The medicine’s being taken, you don’t worry about, oh, he’s got so much fever. You know, that once you see, if you have faith in the medicine, you can understand the symptoms by which the medicine’s working, then one doesn’t worry about the fever. One worries about the taking of the medicine. So that’s the point. If someone’s having a fever, there’s a relapse in fever, how do you get rid of it? By saying, he can’t take any medicine?
Right? He’s not a good patient, you know, his fever relapsed, so therefore, his punishment, no medicine.
You understand? So we laugh at it because it’s so absurd. Right? But when we put it into the social context, oh, he’s, you know, taking the medicine of devotional service, but he’s relapsed back into sinful activities, therefore, he’s a nonsense, he’s not a devotee, so therefore, he shouldn’t be engaged in devotional activities.
You understand?
So this is, this is the problem. Right? This is the difficulty. Now, the point is, is that, as we see from Prabhupada’s example, if someone is a problem, you know, that situation they’re in is going to be a continued problem, or they’re creating a problem for others, then it’s a matter of you remove them from that situation. That’s not the problem. It’s about what situation do you situate them in?
Hmm? Yes, something that’s more directly devotional. In other words, what are you getting distracted by? You’re chanting Japa, and so, you know, your sinful activity is you think you are the name.
You know, you’re worshiping the deity, and you, you understand? So, what is the problem? You’re, you’re distracted by what’s indirect, and you’re unable to connect that to Krishna properly. So, the solution is being engaged in more direct activities, and being in a situation where the indirect is not going to bother you.
Does that make sense? So, you can remove them from the situation, but you’re putting them in a situation that’s going to be devotionally the most beneficial, dynamic, according to their nature.
Does that make sense? And, as soon as that becomes steady again, they become righteous, then again, they automatically go back to where they were situated before, as long as that was their natural situation. Right? If it’s not, then, you know, if that situation was what the problem was, okay, change the situation. But, the devotional activities don’t change.
Does that make sense? That’s the point.
Does that make sense? Yeah?
Okay.
Thus, with the entrance of bhakti in his mind, his sinful actions are not taken seriously, and the traces of sin, such as lust and anger, should be considered insignificant, like the biting of a toothless snake. Thus, he attains, you know, that’s the thing, he’s a snake, but, okay. Thus, he attains niga-cati, complete cessation of lust and anger, permanently.
In niga-cati, ni stands for nitaram, completely. This means that even during the stage of having tendency to commit sin, he has a pure heart. So, this is the difficulty that has to be able to be understood within the devotional process, is how two things that seem incompatible have no problem.
Right? One is, we shouldn’t have any problem with this, though we do, because we’re tatastha. Right? Which means we can be in two situations at once. Right? Internal potency is only in internal potency. Even they come here to the mature world, they only move in internal potency. Right? Krishna moves in internal potency. External potency is external potency. We move in both. So, we shouldn’t be the ones actually having the problem. Somehow or another, we’re the ones that have the problem. We’re the ones that have an illusion about it. So, the contradiction, the point is, is they can exist simultaneously.
Does that make sense? Because, the point is, is everything is in Krishna. Right? Everything’s coming from Krishna. So, Krishna being everything, that means all things exist simultaneously. There’s nothing that doesn’t exist simultaneously.
Does that make sense?
So, that’s why the two can exist at the same time. But the point is, if you’re Krishna conscious, then that means that dual existence of spiritual and material will soon go away because the spiritual will be successful.
So, that’s why one has to see that one improves this spiritual situation.
That may mean a change in situation, but it’s still an improvement.
If he eventually… Okay, now here’s…
Now here’s again Arjuna. If he is… If he eventually becomes righteous, there would be no argument. Right? Okay. Eventually becomes righteous. Okay. However, if a devotee is sinful right up until his death, what is his position?
Okay. Then the Lord then, affectionate to his devotees, speaks loudly with a little anger. Because he’s been pushing the point. Yeah, okay, but what about… That’s not… That’s not some point. Oh, son of Kunti, my devotee is never destroyed. At the time of death, he does not fall.
But, arguers with sharp tongues will not respect this. So, Krishna’s already saying that there’s going to be a class of man who’s never going to accept this anyway. Right? But, what’s the position?
Krishna then encourages the worried, lamenting Arjuna. Oh, Kunti, going to the squabbling assembly with the tumultuous sound of drums, throwing your hands in the air, you should fearlessly declare this. My devotee, the devotee of the Supreme Lord, though committing sin, does not perish, but rather reaches success. Arguments in pride, defeated, they should undoubtedly respect you as a guru.
Yes. Does not fall at the time of death mean he does not fall to our species?
Or even losing his opportunity to continue… It just means devotional service will continue because we see even, you know, Jara Bharat, you know, appeared as a deer, but, you know, things still progressed because the point is is Krishna consciousness is the real progression, like that.
So that’s… And we also see is that so many have been there, that, you know, the end of the, you know, again, especially if they kind of have an indication. That’s one thing if you’re perfectly healthy and confident in that and step off the curb and get run over by a truck, then there may be a little less. But those who, you know, figure out that, okay, for my sinful activities now I have AIDS and I have two weeks to live, generally they, they tend to take up Krishna consciousness, you know, a little seriousness. One doesn’t have to worry.
On the other hand, so now… Okay, now that this has been established, Krishna’s established this very strongly. So, you know, first thing is we’re fighting with the mind to get us to accept it. And then once we’ve accepted it, now we bring in the other side, right? You know, because before it was like we’re giving all the negative arguments, you know, and Krishna’s saying, no, no, it’s like this. And then once we’ve accepted it, now we’ll come in the negative arguments from the other side, right? On the other hand, a devotee should not use these verses as an excuse to deliberately commit sinful activities. Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport. One should not misunderstand that a devotee in transcendental devotional service can act in all kinds of abominable ways. This verse only refers to an accident due to the strong power of material connections. Devotional service is more or less a declaration of war against the illusory energy. As long as one is not strong enough to fight the illusory energy, there may be accidental falldowns. But then, one is strong enough. But when one is strong enough, he is no longer subjected to such falldowns, as previously explained. No one should take advantage of this verse and commit nonsense and think that he is still a devotee. If he does not improve in his character by devotional service, then it is to be understood that he is not a high devotee. So even here, saying he is not a high devotee. So he didn’t even say he is not a devotee. He said he is not a high devotee.
So, so here is, and then now in here, going back to, to, what do you call it?
Using these arguments like Arjuna is saying.
You know, by, you know, by considering his bad conduct, how is he a devotee? So, like this, how he can be considered, he is considered a devotee in proportion. So then the, the, the troubled, the word of trouble here will be accidental.
So, the definition of accidental means if anybody makes any plan, it’s not an accident. You know, accidents just got to be, you are just walking along and you know, somehow or another as you went, went by the alley and you, you know, smelled something or this or that and just got, you know, dragged inside and next thing, you know, you’re a complete junkie. So, that, that’s, then that’s accidental, right? You know, that’s, no, but accidental means you’re not planning on this and you just become overwhelmed. So, as long as you’re overwhelmed, you may be planning to do nonsense, but you’re not planning on the strength of devotional service. You understand? You’re not thinking, well, I’m a devotee so it doesn’t matter. You’re not even considering the devotee side. You’re just absorbed in the sinful activity. But as soon as you’re brought to consciousness, you see, this is not right. And so, you, you, you want to not do this. You’re determined not to do it. Now, if you’re strong enough, it’ll stop. If you’re not strong enough, one may get distracted again.
Does this make sense? Because otherwise, they say, oh, no, but he planned to, you know, meet at this place and all that. So, that’s not accidental. So, this is just more of Arjuna’s, you know, rational arguments that we just can’t accept that you can be Krishna conscious and be distracted.
Because if it’s not the fact, then take it in a milder sense. We’re chanting the holy name. How is it we’re still absorbed in material activities, material consciousness?
You know, all it is sinful means is it’s gone out of, you know, beyond what’s recognizable.
You know, so, here it means, you know, we’re sinful. It’s workably sinful.
You know what I’m saying? Because it’s, because by, by Bhagavatam, definition of sin and piety is if you’re Krishna conscious, if it’s connected to Krishna, it’s pious. If it’s not connected to Krishna, it’s, it’s sin. So, that means even though the guy’s doing nice, he’s doing his work, he’s paying his bills, you know, he’s taking his family on vacation, he’s doing all the good things, but still, if it’s not Krishna conscious, it is sin.
All right? So, now, it’s just a matter within sin, there’s sinful and then really sinful.
All right? Does that make sense?
So, in other words, if it’s according to Shastra, but not connected to Krishna, it’s just sinful. But if it’s not according to Shastra, then it’s, you know, really sinful.
Does that make sense? So, it’s the same principle. So, when you accept that, why can’t we accept this? It’s because we think religion is just morality. That’s why the Bhagavatam says, kaitabhadharma, as upadharma and all these things, that’s what we think is actually religion, but it’s not religion. Most world religions technically aren’t up to the level of religion because they don’t accept the nature of everything. The nature of God, nature of the soul, nature of the material energy. So, because of that, then you don’t actually have a religious system that’s based on nature. So, what is it based on? Morality. Just be good, be nice.
Does that make sense? That’s all you’re dealing with. So, that’s how you know someone’s religious because they’re moral. And if they’re not moral, they’re not religious.
But actually, the real point of religious is understanding your position, you know, and acting according to that.
Does that make sense?
In the next verse, the Lord declares that devotional service under Him award to Him towards the highest perfection, even to those of sinful birth. So, now you’ve got someone who’s sinful activities, now we’re talking of sinful birth because then you can bring in the same element. If from sinful birth, sinful background, that means they’ve done things in the past that are sinful, therefore, they’ve taken that birth.
Right? So, now, that’s past sin because everything’s past. Right? And this is going on right now. It’s past. Right? You know what I’m saying?
Everyone is eligible for the supreme destination. There’s no distinction between lower and higher classes of people. Women, merchants, workers, and people of lower births can also attain the supreme destination by taking shelter of Krishna. What then can be said of the brahmanas and ksatriyas who were born in pure families and become devotees with proper conduct. The devotees and the saintly kings, having come to this temporary material world, miserable world, should engage in loving service to Krishna. So, in other words, the process is so powerful that anyone in any position can come to this stage of perfection.
Does that make sense? So, let alone if one’s situated nicely.
Yeah. So, the devotees, so, what is said of brahmanas and ksatriyas born in pure families and who become devotees with proper conduct. So, therefore, the devotees and saintly kings, then, they should engage in devotional service.
So, one, they’ll be engaged because they’re rightly situated. But then, here also is that in, you know, in a more, you know, contemporary environment. We may be born in good situations or not. Those who are, great. Then, they should engage. Those who are not, it doesn’t matter. By always being absorbed in Krishna, then, by the same process as before, for someone who’s addicted to sinful activity, it will, the Krishna consciousness will become triumphant. Right? And then, those who are born in families of devotees, that means the one is born to engage in loving devotional service. Right? So, the devotees and the saintly kings having come should engage in loving service to Krishna. Right? So, engage in what everybody else is doing. Right? Just getting a karmic education and becoming, you know, good at making money. That everybody else is doing. Why, why not, why need to be born in the family of devotees to do that? You know, wouldn’t it have been better to be born in a different family? You know, some, some other more intellectual or more, you know, wealthy family where you actually have the facility for that? You know what I’m saying? Is Krishna so stupid? Material energy is so stupid that if the purpose of being, being born in a devotee family is to get a Harvard degree, wouldn’t, wouldn’t, I mean, at least take birth in Massachusetts, right? You know, right there. Why, why somewhere else?
You know, why, why somewhere else? You know, like this, you know, your parents are already, you know, professors at the university. Now, wouldn’t that be better birth?
So, why devotee family? Because, Krishna is saying here is the devotees and the saintly kings, they should be engaged in loving service to Krishna. That’s the point. That’s the focus. Right? So, just as the consciousness is the focus and not the distracting and sinful activities, so engagement in Krishna’s service, not the indirect activities of this world. Right? Doesn’t mean that they’re not taken care of, but the focus is not on them. Right? Because Ananya Bhakti means the focus is not on the karma yoga, but on the devotional service, the pure devotional service. Right? So, it’s not on, on the element that, what you’re attached to, but it’s not focused on Krishna.
But, the point is, is you’re attached to it, so your attachment is sinful, but it’s connected to Krishna. So, that’s the point. That’s why we call it karma yoga. That’s why it’s progressive. So, your attachment to Krishna, you know, in, connected with your material activities that you are attached to, still, if you keep focused on Krishna, Krishna will become prominent. And then it will switch from karma yoga into pure devotional service.
You understand? Activity won’t change. So, that’s why, then your activities are engaged in Krishna service. So, it’s still called karma yoga.
Right? But, it started from yoga and gone back to karma, instead of starting from karma and going, gone forward to yoga.
in his purport, Srila Prabhupada explains the meaning of the word anityam.
In this material world, there are classifications of people. But, after all, this world is not a happy place for anyway, anyone. It is clearly stated here.
anityam asukam lokam This world is temporary and full of miseries, not habitable for any sane gentleman. This world is declared by the Supreme Personality of Godhead to be temporary and full of miseries. Some philosophers, especially Mayavadi philosophers, say that this world is false. But we can understand from Bhagavad Gita that the world is not false. It is temporary. There is a difference between temporary and false. This world is temporary, but there is another world which is eternal. This world is miserable. The other world is eternal and blissful.
So, anityam means it’s temporary.
So, it’s manifest, but it’s unmanifest. It’s manifest, it’s unmanifest. So, this way, then the living entity goes from one life to the next life to the next life. So, the living entity who is eternal can never be happy doing this. You know, it’s just, you do something, build up, and then have to start all over again. Build up, start all over again. How many times can you do this? So, because we forget last life, therefore, we’re able to do it eternally, basically.
So, it’s very important to notice that it’s temporary. So, it’s real, but it’s temporary. Then you have the eternal real. So, that’s, you know, does that make sense? So, the temporary real, then that can be called unreal. Because what you, and the eternal real, that’s real. But the difficulty is this, why it’s unreal is because not that the material manifestation doesn’t exist, it’s because we think why it functions is because of itself.
So, I say, this column, these bricks are holding up the roof. But actually, it’s Krishna’s potency in the column that’s holding up the roof. It’s not the bricks. The bricks are invested with that potency, but it’s Krishna’s potency. So, that’s why I will say it’s unreal, because I say, because I take the illusion as the reality. So, I’ll say that illusion is unreal.
But the manifestation of the material energy and Krishna’s potency is in it, that’s real, but it’s temporarily manifest.
We get the difference there? So, this is the… Krishna consciousness is the only means of real liberation. By engaging the mind always in thinking of Krishna, becoming Krishna’s devotee, offering obeisances to Krishna, worshipping Krishna, and becoming completely absorbed in Krishna, surely one will reach Him. So, here’s the practical point. Sarva-dharma, you get is that that’s the position. But now, what are you going to do in that position of Sarva-dharma? And then that’s this. Always absorbed in thinking of Krishna, becoming His devotee, offering obeisances, and worshipping Krishna. Right? Being completely absorbed. Then one will reach Him. Right? So, these go together. Because in this chapter, then, that pure devotional service where you’re giving up the starting with the karma and beyond, and starting with Krishna. And then the conclusion is then you do this activity. So, in the same way, then that conclusion is given in the 18th chapter.
Right? The same point.
One should always think of Krishna. It is not enough to work hard for Krishna while the mind thinks about something else. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana gives the example of a king’s servant who, while serving the king, thinks about his own wife and children. Krishna is not pleased by such attitude. He expects from us to be dedicated to Him always.
So, that is the point. The consciousness is there. So, there’s the element that you’re doing the correct activity. But the consciousness is not so good. That means he’s a devotee, but he’s not absorbed in thinking of Krishna. He’s absorbed in thinking of his family. So, the activity is righteous, but the consciousness isn’t really. So, therefore, he focuses on making the consciousness right, because that’s the easier of the two to correct. Does that make sense? Because that’s inherent in the jiva. The sinful activities, the difficulty there, the material activities, the difficulty is a long-time habit.
So, one can correct the consciousness. So, we’ve dealt with both sides. The consciousness is correct, the activity is wrong. Now we’re dealing with the conscious… the activity is… is right, but the consciousness isn’t so good.
So, then, one is trying to get both of them correct.
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur summarizes ninth chapter as follows. That supreme position of pure bhakti, the topmost secret, which has the ability to judge who is qualified and unqualified, and by its contact purifies all persons, has been described in this chapter. So, this is the innermost point, the most secret element. The secret’s not how to, you know, how you say, no, you can do it, or, you know, meditate on it so you draw it from wherever in the universe to you, as if you’re such a big magnet, you know, like that. So, all these different things. That’s not the secret. The secret is Krishna. Right? Being absorbed in Krishna. Then, that, that which has the ability to judge, so this pure bhakti, that is how you can judge what is, what is qualified and unqualified. Not the activity. The bhakti, that’s how one can judge. And by contacting, it purifies all persons, not just only pious persons, only righteous persons, all persons.
So that’s, that’s the whole point. This devotional service, all things can be judged by is it in connection with Krishna. Right? Is it to please Krishna? Is it devotion? Right? It’s connected to Krishna, nice, you know, so that’s elevating. That will give you liberation. But it’s done to please Krishna, that will give you devotion. That will give you bhakti. Right? And that will, that process will purify anyone. So pure devotional service will purify anyone. So, that is what was described in this chapter.
Okay? So then tomorrow we’ll start with chapter ten, the opulence of the absolutes.
Jai Nithaya. Go with the flow.
