Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #49

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #49

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Today, I’m going to give you a brief introduction to the Vedic literature, and then I’m going to give you a brief introduction to the Vedic literature.

The Mahātmā does not divert his attention to anything outside Kṛṣṇa, because he knows perfectly well that Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. There’s no doubt about it. Such a mahātmā, or great soul, develops through association with other mahātmīs, pure devotees. Pure devotees are not even attracted by Kṛṣṇa’s other features, such as the four-armed Mahāviṣṇu. They are simply attracted by the two-armed form of Kṛṣṇa. They are always engaged in the unswerving service of the Lord in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So here, a mahātmā, then, in the association, right, with other pure devotees, then advances.

So, now we see here is that these pure devotees, they’re not even attracted by Kṛṣṇa’s other features as Mahāviṣṇu. And when we say Mahāviṣṇu, then that will include everybody, right? Because Mahāviṣṇu will then mean that then there’s Garbhodakṣayi Viṣṇu, there’s Kīrodakṣayi Viṣṇu. So the elements of Brahman and Paramātmā are also included. So you’re not going to be attracted by those aspects. And they’re not going to be attracted by Vaikuṇṭha.

So they’re only attracted by the two-armed form of Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana. So in such association, these mahātmās will advance. So in other words, mahātmās that are more situated, then in that association, the mahātmā will advance. Does it make sense? So, yeah, so Kṛṣṇa is bringing out in these chapters how then the living entity, though engaged, should look at it, the perspective should be different. He started with himself, taken his own connection and brought that in line with Kṛṣṇa, right? Now he’s taking the element of that Kṛṣṇa is more important than the engagement, right? The engagement is for Kṛṣṇa and the result is for Kṛṣṇa, so that will make Kṛṣṇa more important, right? Like a man works and he gets money, and he uses that money for the family. So because the results are for the family, the family is more important than the money, right? Like that. And so, therefore, is that everything is for Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa is more important than all these other aspects.

Right?

Yes.

All or nothing, yes.

Kṛṣṇa is special, but the point is that all or nothing means it’s duality, right? Because duality means it’s happiness or it’s distress, you know? You don’t take, okay, yeah, well, there’s happiness, distress and okay. No, there’s happiness or distress. You know, you want to be happy, but you’re distressed. You know, you’re not comfortable to be okay. You know what I’m saying? So, therefore, in that mentality, because it’s duality, then they’re seeing with a mundane vision, because there is a non-difference. So, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān, but they’re only attracted by Kṛṣṇa. So when they’re dealing with Brahman and Paramātmā, they’re also just seeing Kṛṣṇa. But still, that’s the mechanics how Kṛṣṇa is manifesting. But it’s Kṛṣṇa who’s Brahman, Kṛṣṇa who’s Paramātmā.

Right? So they’re only attracted by that element. So if they say, okay, we don’t care about Mahāviṣṇu, then what are they going to work with? Because Mahāviṣṇu is the one that created all this. So then if that’s, if that’s, the material energy is expanding from Him, right? And with His glance, then all the living entities and the whole time factor and false ego enters, so that it actually will function. So He creates mahat.

Right? And then within that, then He expands as Garbhodakṣayī Viṣṇu, who then does the primary creation, you know, and makes that into something. Right? Because otherwise, mahat, all the elements just separate, but then what are they made into? So Garbhodakṣayī Viṣṇu makes them into things. And then, then Pīrodakṣayī Viṣṇu enters.

Right? So then how, how will it work? Because He also mentioned here the cause of all causes, right?

Yeah, the cause of all causes. So that means the cause of, why say cause of all causes?

Because causes, causation is an important element, is a consideration. You know what I’m saying?

So if you say He’s the best of the best, then that means you have to know what best is. And within what’s best, then what is the… So the cause of all causes means He’s the original cause. But that means you can distinguish between the original cause and the other three kinds of cause. So the formal, the operational and the material. Because if you see that, because that’s what’s going on in, when you’re looking at Maha -Viṣṇu. But you’re not attracted by that, so you don’t want to get stuck there. You’re not, that’s not enough for you. Brahman, understanding, paramam is not enough. You want it to be Kṛṣṇa. So you’re engaging your conditioning in Kṛṣṇa’s service through seeing this way. Right? By engaging the karma yoga, jñāna yoga. But it’s Kṛṣṇa who’s important, so you’re always trying to bring it to that point of devotion to Kṛṣṇa.

Does that make sense?

Verse 14 describes the activities of such mahātmās. Always chanting Kṛṣṇa’s glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Him, these great souls perpetually worship Him with devotion.

So that means there’s determination, that means there’s focus. So focus means then you have to understand the saṁbandhā, abhidheya and prayojana of what’s going on. Because unless you understand that, how you’ll be focused? If you’re not focused, you can’t be determined.

So that means then he has knowledge. So that’s why the mahātmā is the jñāni, right? Which matures into the pure devotee.

Does that make sense? You know, so that’s a better mahātmā.

Those who are attached to the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth are not among the mahātmās described here. So even though the mahātmā is dealing through knowledge with the Brahmān aspect, the Paramātmā aspect, he’s not attracted. But someone who is, then they’re not a mahātmā as is described here.

So the impersonal aspect… Because Brahman doesn’t mean impersonal.

Brahman just means existence.

Kṛṣṇa is Brahman. Everything is situated in Kṛṣṇa. So it’s based on Him. His existence is the existence of everything.

So defining that, that’s Brahman, right? Remember like we were talking about the living entity. So living entity is Brahman, but He is the Adhyātmā.

Because Brahman means what He is in the way of just, you know, what He’s made out of. Yeah, His existence, yeah. But Adhyātmā means what He does with that existence.

You know, as a person, what’s He going to do? So He’s going to have an identity, He’s going to have goals, He’s going to have endeavors. So now that can be either conditioned and be material or constitutional and be spiritual.

Does that make sense? So, yeah.

So…

So in here, then, Kṛṣṇa is Brahman. He’s the Supreme Brahman. All other Brahmans come from Him. And then He’s a person. Just as the jīva is Brahman and Adhyātmā, He’s Brahman and He’s Adhidaiva and Adiyājña.

Right? As a person.

You understand?

But everything, you know, He pervades everything. So the Adhivautik, the Adhyātmā, that’s all Brahman. So it’s also based on Him. Right? So when you say the Brahman is based on Him, that means the impersonal Brahman itself and the material manifestation, which is a manifestation of Brahman.

Right? Because Brahman is transformation.

Right? It’s not covering. It’s transformation.

Right?

In verse 15, the Lord lists three types of persons who worship Him indirectly, not knowing that He is the ultimate goal of their worship. Some worship Him as one without a second, as diverse in many, or as in the universal form.

These three levels here are the ones mentioned in 15, or this is a different point? It means the three mentioned here are the ones described here.

Okay. Next part. Just the last one. Oh, okay. Okay. So there’s three kinds of jñānīs. Okay. So then that will come up now. In his purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda summarizes, right, because he said one without a second. Right? As diverse in many, or as a universal form. Because it’s one without a second, but the problem is that He’s one without a second, but then what about all the second? How is that connected? They can’t connect it. Right? So then they’re not actually worshiping directly. So that would include monotheists. Right? Because who uses the term one without a second except monotheists?

Right? Because they can’t actually understand how everything is connected to Him. Everything is dependent upon Him. So they separate Him actually from His energies. He’s one without a second, so He’s supreme, but His energies aren’t included. So there’s no such thing as He’s non -dual. He’s supreme, but at the same time He is the energetic, and then His energies.

So His energies are dependent upon Him. So that doesn’t make Him any less by there being energy.

Does that make sense? So it’s an important element. Otherwise then it says, oh yes, you know, there’s only God and that’s it. Okay, great. But, you know, what about everything else? Right?

So they can’t accommodate.

So it becomes a problem.

In his Purport Śrīla Prabhupāda summarizes three different levels of Kṛṣṇa worshipers. One, the mahātmās described in verses 13 to 14. The four types of pious persons mentioned in 7.16. Right? So here then you’re making, okay, yes, a difference between the mahātmās and those pious persons. Though the jñāni is also considered a mahātmā. Right? But still they’re neophyte. So here then we see mahātmā would be someone who’s situated. And then three, the three types of jñānis who worship the Absolute Truth indirectly.

Śrīla Prabhupāda describes the last category of worshipers as follows. One, he who worships himself as one with the Supreme Lord. Two, he who concocts some form of the Supreme Lord and worships that.

And three, he who accepts the universal form, the viśvarūpa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and worships that. Out of the above three, the lowest, those who worship themselves as the Supreme Lord, thinking themselves to be monists, are most prominent.

Right? Say, they’re the most prominent, but he also throws in before he gets there, that they’re the lowest. Otherwise he’s saying, of these three, you know, those who think themselves to be God, they’re the most prominent, but they’re the lowest. It wouldn’t work as well. You’ve already just slipped it in, in the definition. Then this category, which is the lowest, then you just think, oh, okay. They’re the ones who think that they’re God. You know? Do you understand? Śrīla Prabhupāda would do this a lot. He’d always, you know, define something before, you know, the category, before he actually gives the detail. You know? It makes a lot of difference. Because the others, oh, why do you say that? You’ve already said, they’re the lowest, then you’ve already accept that. Okay, what? And then when you explain it, then it’s kind of like, okay, now what do you do? Right? You can’t do anything with it. But if you say, you know, they’re the most predominant, so that means okay, they’re the big ones, but they’re the lowest. Well, how is that? How can you be the most predominant? Because then you’re having to deal with this, it’s a chimp debate. So you’ve already just said they’re the lowest, so anything in that category is already useless.

Such people think themselves to be the Supreme Lord, and in this mentality they worship themselves. This is also a type of God worship, where they can understand that they are not the material body, but are actually spirit soul. At least such a sense is prominent. Right? In other words, it has some element of truth in that they are Brahman.

So they’re seeing I’m not the body, I’m the soul, but they can’t tell that the soul is not the Supreme Brahman. They’re Brahman, but they’re Supreme Brahman. In Vajramana, they make no distinction. So that means no distinction means lack of intelligence. So they’re the lowest. You know, also you have to have a lot of false egos, so that gets in the way of intelligence also.

Right? So in other words, here, why does Prabhupada point that out? Because you start somewhere. That’s the key on where you start with them. Sarva-grahi means take the essence.

Right? So Prabhupada’s sarva-grahi. So he’s saying the lowest, so they’re prominent. You know, he’s not saying, he’s not recognizing. He’s not, he’s recognizing their relative position.

At the same time, he’s getting to the essence, the part that is correct. The part that’s wrong is that they think they’re God. The part that’s correct is that they understand they’re Brahman. Because if you’re dealing in duality, then that means you have right and wrong. So that means any material element being dualistic will have a correct element and a wrong element. Problem is, is the materialist takes the wrong element. Right? But they know that the right element is there, but they just don’t necessarily focus on that so much. Right? So you, by focusing on the correct element, then you have something to deal with, something to talk about. Right? This is the preaching technique, is what is the common, what is the good of it? Right? In other words, whatever their philosophy, their position, and that, whatever is the good element, you take that, leave the other part. And then from there, build so that you get the right mentality.

Generally, the impersonalists worship the Supreme Lord in this way. I said, at least such a sense is prominent, because those are actual monists that see like that. But there’s also probably plenty of impersonalists who don’t know they’re not the body, like in the West. They won’t know. So it’s prominent of those, you know, but they’re not really that strong as, you know, impersonalists. You know, the ones following the Vedic literatures, you know, that are following Sankara and like this, then they know they’re not the body. So that’s the most prominent of them.

Generally, the impersonalists worship the Supreme Lord in this way. The second class includes the worshipers of the demigods. Right? It’s indirect, because it’s the soul. It’s Brahman. It’s part of God, but it’s not, you know, direct.

Second includes the worshipers of the demigods, those who by imagination consider any form to be the form of the Supreme Lord. Right? So, like this, you know, it’s the anything. It’s God. Like that. So, because the demigods are part of the universal form, but they’re not actually seeing that. They just think it’s any form is as good. So that’s also lack of discrimination. They can’t tell.

And the third class includes those who cannot conceive of anything beyond the manifestation of this material universe. They consider the universe to be the supreme organism or entity and worship that. The universe is also a form of the Lord.

So they just take nature or the world. You have to make it a right place, you know. Does that make sense? You know, what are we going to leave for our children? You know, all these different kinds of things. So that’s all they see. So it is worship of the Lord. Like you appreciate nature, you get purified, because you’re appreciating the Lord’s potency.

Right? But that’s where it ends.

So that’s the difficulty, is that they’re… And here it says jnanis. So that means they’re intellectual, but they can’t see beyond.

So you’re intellectual materialists and you’re intellectual pessimists.

Like that. You know, you get it. And then the, you know, your karmis in between. Like that. So these kind of persons, they have some knowledge, but it’s not enough. And then you can take this up to those who see farther than universal form. But as it’s described in the Bhagavatam, that’s described in relationship to the Supreme Lord. So you won’t make the mistake that the universal form stands on its own. So if you worship material energy, you’re worshiping universal form. But the problem is, is you don’t actually know the source of that. Does that make sense?

Like the prominent, very prominent disciple of Ramanuja. I don’t remember his name.

But Ramanuja was talking to his sannyasis. And there was a festival going on. The Lord had come out. Big festival.

And sannyasis, they were discussing something about renunciation and attachment and all these different things. And how it’s just a matter of misdirected attraction.

It’s actually everything’s coming from the Lord. And so Ramanuja’s making the point, therefore anybody can take up the process in any situation.

But sannyasis kind of had a doubt about this. Well, unless you have knowledge, unless you’re renounced, then only you can understand. But if somebody’s materially absorbed, they won’t. And so somehow in the discussion as they were there, this one well-dressed man, he was carrying an umbrella. Not for himself, because it was the daytime. So the sun’s out and the festival. He’s holding it over this very beautiful girl and following her around wherever she goes.

When she moves, it’s not like he says, OK, let’s go here and there. Just wherever she moves, he just follows. Like that. And so then it came up, this element about, what about someone like this?

This guy’s no question of being interested in the Supreme or become able to take up the process through his position.

So Ramanuja said, no, even he can’t. So they were not so sure. So then Ramanuja then says, call him. So they called him over. And he asked, my dear sir, we’ve been observing and you’re carrying this umbrella and following this beautiful young girl around. So why are you doing this? What’s your purpose? Rather than just saying, oh, you’re gross materialist. He said, I’m a worshipper of beauty. So wherever beauty is, that I must. I must somehow or another respect. I must somehow be involved, interact.

So Ramanuja said, OK. So you’re a worshipper of beauty. So therefore, if I show you the most beautiful person, will you worship them?

He said, of course. That’s what I do. So they took him in the temple and showed him Rangaji. And so then he became a great devotee of Rangaji.

So that’s the point, is you start at what they have. The sannyasis would start, oh, you’re so attached. You’ve got to give up all this attachment. You don’t know anything, so you have to come to our ashram. You have to study this, that. No, Ramanuja just went for what is actually his value. Because his value is Krishna. But he thinks it’s the girl.

But that potency of Krishna, of beauty, is coming through this girl in a more predominance than in somewhere else.

Does it make sense? In other words, it’s a medium.

Like that. It’s defined by Krishna. He’ll define what is personal beauty, what it would look like. So someone who has that by their karma, then they’ll have that. So more potency goes. Right? Does that make sense?

So, yes.

Yeah, longer eyes, you know, the way the nose is, the forehead, you know, the symmetry, like that proportion. All these different things that are just standard, that if those are there, then there’s more beauty. Does that make sense? So, he started with that, and from that, then showed him what’s the origin of that. So that means anybody has any value, then you can take that, and then start with that, and bring that to Krishna. You understand?

So you’re taking the indirect, making indirect. So what’s the importance? Right? So it’s the other. We’re not this body. We’re Brahman, so we’re God. Yes, so we’re Brahman, but where’s the supreme Brahman? Right? The demigods, they’re managing everything. So that’s part, you know, you’re respecting them, you respect authority. This is good, but then where do they get their potency? Because it’s a post. They can lose the post. Right? They’re worshiping Indra, but Indra changes. Right? Bhama changes. Everybody changes. So that they know, but they don’t really think about much. Right? You know, 72 Mahayugas, Indra will be there, and all the demigods, so therefore you don’t really tend to worry about it much.

So, does that make sense?

The first type of jnani thinks himself identical with the Lord. This is the lowest and most common category within these three.

Higher than that is the demigod worshiper who imagines the form of his favorite demigod to be the supreme. The best of these three is one who cannot conceive anything beyond the manifestation of this material universe. He considers the universe to be the supreme organism or entity and worships that.

In verse 1 to 12, the Lord already described the inauspicious results awaiting the lowest type of worshiper. The ekatvena jnani. In the next section, verses 16 to 25, Krishna discussed the other two categories.

Verses 16 to 19 explain how to recognize and worship him in his universal form. Verses 20 to 25 describe the demigod worshiper as indirect and improper worship of the Supreme Lord. Right? So, now we’re classifying these as higher and lower. Now, the impersonalist is the one who’s the most renounced generally if he’s properly situated. It means the better he is, the more renounced and the more knowledge he’ll have, the better sadhana. So, why is he less or the lowest compared to, you know, the demigod worshiper who definitely is going to be a karmic? You know, it’s most likely… It means how do you worship the demigods? Yes.

Yes, yes. Yes.

Yes. There’s less to connect.

Yeah, relationship. So, they accept demigods. So, when you take the universe, then you’re taking everything. So, it’s not just the demigods. You’re taking the whole universe. So, one, you’re just taking the existence of the universe. It’s just Brahman. Then you’re expanding that to include a portion of the manifestation.

Then you’re taking the whole manifestation. Right? So, now, as far as knowledge goes, it’s the opposite. Right? The person who just worships nature probably knows the least. The demigod worshiper knows more. And the impersonalist knows the most. But their knowledge is, you know, stolen by illusion. So, this person then accepts that relation with the universe and everything, my whole life is connected and all that. So, all you have to do is add Krishna and it’s all in place.

Right? But the other one, you add Krishna, it’s kind of like, yeah, well, I’m Krishna. Or the demigod worshiper says, yeah, yeah, there’s plenty of space. Put him in here also. You know, come on. Plenty of room for everybody.

Does that make sense? Yes, so you have to see that’s why sometimes, unless we hear from Shastra, right? And especially when we hear from Krishna and the Acharyas, then we get the correct perspective. Otherwise, then we’ll take, the Jnani, of course, is more important. So, if you meet the three, he will probably get the most respect as far as etiquette and culture goes because of his knowledge and everything else. But at the same time, he’s actually the lowest.

Does the yogi in Jnana Samadhi, that’s the weakness. They’ll either see the Lord, think they are, that is them, or see the Lord and then, you know, want to now apply their mystic cities. So, these are, you know, these distractions.

But the proper yogi, would then seeing the Paramahamsa, he would surrender and take up devotional service. So, that means he’s only beginning devotional service after the perfection of Samadhi. So, of course, once he gets there, then he’s already on the liberated platform. So, he’ll move very quickly. You know, like the four Kumaras and like this. But the difficulty is this getting there. How do you know you’re going to get there? Unless you have the association. So, if you have the association of the pure devotees, then you’re going to progress in that way. But then, if you’re having the association of pure devotees, why would you use such a mechanistic system that’s not very efficient, especially in this age? It wasn’t… Arjuna rejected it last age. You know, so, why would it be useful this age? You know, like that. Because it says in Kaliyuga, everyone’s mind is disturbed. The other age, it doesn’t say that. So, it’s disturbed. So, therefore, it won’t be very useful.

Does that make sense? So, therefore, all these other things of what to do, what to not do, how to situate yourself, how to engage in activities, how to pull in the senses, how to focus on the Lord, you use that through direct methods instead of indirect. Because otherwise these, it’s indirect. It’s not until Dhyan, then the Lord is included.

You know, that’s what you’re getting to. That’s why then, in the earlier portions of the book, it describes. But in the later portions, it doesn’t really talk so much about Paramatma anymore. Not as a goal. So, the lower stage, he’s a goal so that you meditate upon him. Once you’re meditating, he’s not the… and fixed, he’s not the goal.

So, this is the weakness of the system. So, it’s not just, oh, they’re yogis, they worship Paramatma, so they’re great devotees. Not exactly.

Okay. Verses 16 to 25.

Okay. What does it say here? 16 and 19 explain how to recognize and worship him in his universal form.

But it is I who am the ritual, I the sacrifice, the offering to the ancestors, the healing herb, the transcendental chant. I am the butter, and the fire, and the offering.

I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support, and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier, and the syllable om. I am also the rig, the sama, and the yajur vedas.

I am the goal, the sustainer, the master, the witness, the abode, the refuge, and the most dear friend. I am the creation, and the annihilation, the basis of everything, the resting place, and the eternal seed. O Arjuna, I give heat, and I withhold, and send forth the rain. I am immortality. I am also death personified. Both spirit and matter are in me. So this is how to recognize him in the universal form. Now the demigods. Those who study the vedas and drink the sama juice, seeking the heavenly planets.

Worship me indirectly, purified of sinful reactions. They take birth on the pious heavenly planet of Indra, where they enjoy godly delights.

When they have thus enjoyed vast heavenly sense pleasure, and the results of their pious activities are exhausted, they return to this mortal planet again. Thus those who seek sense enjoyment by adhering to the principles of the three vedas, achieve only repeated birth and death. But those who always worship me with exclusive devotion, meditating on my transcendental form, to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith, actually worship only me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way.

I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore those who do not recognize my true transcendental nature, fall down.

Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods. Those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors. Those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings. And those who worship me shall live with me.

In verse 15 the Lord mentioned those who worship the universal form as supreme. In verses 16 to 19 He explains how they can advance by recognizing Him, the Supreme, in the universal form. In other words, they’re respecting the nature, they’re doing all the things and they think that’s all there is. But now how they can recognize Him. It doesn’t change their position. You start from there. Always the point is that someone doesn’t change their position. They start from wherever they are. That’s how it’ll be successful. Right? One can say, I mean, from not understanding this, then how do you engage somebody? Before, in the 60s, did the hippies have a place to stay? Did they have a place that was theirs? That they owned? That they had to be there? Did they have duties to perform?

Other than rolling a joint or something. You know? You understand? So therefore, they could go anywhere. So the concept of the temple, the monastery, living together, the commune, they were into communes. So here’s one and it’s all about this. So you just have to convince them that in the city it’s cool. Right? But generally the ones in the city are going to there. So the ones in the country, that’s another thing. So the point is then, they’re starting from that position. So they’re already taking that. So then for them to move in, it’s as easy. Because they don’t have any place. Right? But then it came to the point where you’re trying to move in circles other than that. But then the point is, is everyone has to move into the temple or you’re mine. Right? So that the difficulty comes is that other’s position is different.

So for them moving into the temple may not be very practical. You know, short term, some training, this and that. But that kind of thing is not how it’s being looked at. Right? Then it’s okay, so this doesn’t work. So then, you know, the temple’s not important, it’s all about the community.

You know? And so, so then it’s fanatic, you know, all these different things like that. So whatever was before was fanatic. And so then, but that was the drive. That was the spirit. That was the inspiration. Right? Do Catholics consider the Pope fanatic? What about the Cardinals? Bishops? You know, parish priests?

Monks? Theologians? Any of them fanatic? No, they don’t consider them that way. That’s their inspiration. Where do they live? In a monastery. Right? You know, in the church. Does the community have a problem with that? No. Like that. They don’t want to live in the church, but they’re happy that they live there. What have you said? Oh, it’s all fanatic, and we should all just be out in the community. Where’s the inspiration? Where’s the focus? In other words, you have to have both. So go all one way or all the other way, that doesn’t work. The point is, what position they’re in, that’s where they start. You know, they’re, you know, involved, they have their occupation, they have their family, they have their situation. That’s where you start from.

That’s where you engage them. Does that make sense? Of those, some will be more comfortable in the temple. And, some will be more comfortable in the community. Wherever it is, you start there. You have to find what’s the mentality.

Like that? Does that make sense? So it’s not, that they live in the temple, because they’re interested in spirituality and all that, because that’s generally what we think. Oh, the hippies, they were so spiritual and looking for the truth and all this and that, you know. But was that the point that made it easy to live in the temple? No, it’s because they don’t have anything. They’ve renounced the culture. They’re living a counter culture, which means, you know, they’re not living like the others do. So others have a house, no, we all live together, you know. They have ownership, we don’t own anything, you know. Does that make sense? So you have to see what made it, not because they were spiritual, so many people were spiritual, but they don’t move in, because that’s not the lifestyle that they are comfortable living. So you have to see what is the essential, what’s the values, right? Then, according to that, then you get.

Does it make sense? So the point is, someone who’s comfortable in the temple, that’s where they should be. Someone who’s not, they should be, you know, in the community. But the point is, the focus is the temple, right? But the temple’s focus is the community. So it works. But if the temple’s focus is the temple, then what does that mean, what’s going to be the response in the community?

Yeah, empty. Why? Because if you apply the masculine-feminine principle, then whatever the masculine mentality is, the feminine will follow. So if the temple is all about itself, then the community will all be about itself. And then, what’s the form community?

If it’s not centered around activities that come out of the temple, then it’s going to be centered around their own ideas. So then the bigger community is going to break into smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. Right? Until it comes down to, this is our block, go around, that kind of stuff.

You know? Does that make sense? Because otherwise, that’s it.

So it has to be balanced like that. So that’s the comfortable point. If you can have a comfortable position at home, can be Krishna conscious, fine. But if not, the temple’s there.

Right? So one has to be able to see. Hmm.

Yes, because it works that way. The temple is very important. The temple is the center of the community, but the temple, all it does is things connected with the community. But you see there’s only a hundred in the temple and five, six thousand outside.

Right? So that means, you know, that works. But you can, you know, it’s in proportion.

Right? You know? So you see as, you know, temples that have five, six devotees in it, then, you know, their community is probably quite small also.

Oh, no, no. We’re counting the devotees there. The first time I was counting the deities.

No, I’m just joking.

So, no, because it’ll be small. And if they don’t have this understanding, then it’ll be even more small. But it’s not uncommon that in a, you know, major city now, you have three to five hundred, you know, devotees in the quote -unquote community, you know, that basically rarely at all are involved with the temple. And in the temple, they may have, you know, how do you say, ten or fifteen people. And they may, you know, because they’re not cultivating the community, you know, so if that five hundred is ten times more, five thousand, then the amount of devotees in the temple, you know, that ten devotees will become a hundred. You know what I’m saying? So it’s not that it’s out of proportion. It’s just not growing because they’re not doing what this, they’re not preaching to the community. They’re not involved. It doesn’t mean the community controls it. No, they’re involved. Yes.

They’ll always be. I mean, look at any religion. Are there Buddhist monks living in the monasteries, right? Are there Christians living in their places, right? Are there rabbis? Do they have guru? Their guru, what do you call it? Yeshiva? Yeah. It means they have their schools and they’re learning the orthodox and stuff like that. So you always have that. You’re always going to have that, no matter what it is.

It’s small, but you don’t require. The point is that everybody’s engaged. So everyone doesn’t have to be in the temple to be engaged.

Does that make sense? You know? You know, it’s just like here in Mayapur. How many are living in the Sankirtan building or the building just behind it? Right? Anybody here?

One. Okay. So one to all this. You understand? So it’s not a problem.

It’s just the definition of community. See, the difficulty is, let’s say someone like Chopati, then they just have devotees.

It’s just a matter of how involved they are. That’s all. So of devotees, some live in the temple and the majority don’t. And how much they’re involved in the program. So therefore, those in the temple are fully involved. But those who are not in the temple, you know, then there’s different degrees of involvement. So it’s just, you know, everybody can be involved to whatever degree is comfortable for them. Does that make sense? So then it works. It works good. Like that. Because they’ve found that balance. They understand how it works. Right? And they’ve created community. So there’s a common mentality. Even though the backgrounds may be very different. But they’ve created a common mentality. Right? Of devotional service. You know, serving Prabhupada, preaching, chanting, like this. They’ve successfully done that. So it’s not a matter, it’s not the, you know, what the schedule is or, you know, what different programs they run. It’s actually this preaching mentality. That’s what’s created the basis. So if someone wants to learn from them, they have to get that mentality. But otherwise, devotees will go in and take notes and figure out all the schedules and what they do. And the brahmacharis do this and this and does that. And then go back to their own place and try to organize it. There’s some great enthusiasm and this and that. And basically what you end up with just at the end is that you have some of these, what do you call them? The guys that kind of take care of a smaller group of devotees. Mentor kind of. Monitors. Counselors. They have some counselors, but it doesn’t really function so like that. And so then, you know, there’s something and then they’ll say, yeah, we’re using the Chopati.

But that’s the point. The form isn’t the thing. It’s the life.

You know, it’s just like that. What do you call it? You had the, in Rome, they had running water, right? They had the aqueduct and they somehow took the houses and they’d have taps and all this. And so somebody who was not from Rome visited, you know, a friend in Rome. He was impressed with the running water. So he thought it was the pipe. So he took the pipe out of the wall, took it home and put it in his wall. They couldn’t figure out why the water was not coming out of his pipe.

You understand? So they think it’s the form. So they’ve worked, means there’s a basic, of course, form, you know, of temple community and activities. But the detail is going to be specific. You could not take what they’re doing in Chopati and do it in Delhi. You know? Does that make sense? It’s a different mentality. You wouldn’t be able to do it, let’s say, in Madras.

You would have to make some adjustments in detail. Because there’s a difference, right? In other words, Bombay is Maharashtra, so it’s still considered part of South India. But at the same time, it’s very far north. So it won’t be as South Indian as the other states. So then there’ll be that element of being very much into knowledge and things like that. But they also have the element of this more sentiment. Like that.

And also being Bombay, it’s a very major city. So that drive, that economic drive and everything. So everybody’s, you know, professional and very pucca. So that combination works there. But like Delhi, because that’s North India, so their less function on the intellectual platform is more on the emotional. So therefore, as much knowledge as they give there, it wouldn’t work as well there. You’d have to give more inspiration. Like that. While in South, you wouldn’t have to give so much inspiration, it’s just the knowledge. Because if the knowledge is there, then you’re inspired.

You understand? And Delhi is, you know, mixed. You do have the professional element in this and that, but you also have a lot who are not. It’s mixed.

You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So the difficulty is, those are the reasons that something doesn’t work, if you apply it somewhere else, based on that. So they’ve worked with that and they’ve come out with that form. They’ve been working on it for 20, 30 years. But the principle that it’s based on, you can apply anywhere. You know? Taking care of devotees and doing all these different things and that interrelationship, that they can do. So it can be transported anywhere. Otherwise, why is Lord Chaitanya’s Harinam from Navadvip able to function in New York?

Does that make sense? You know, it’s like… I’m looking for solutions for congregation. I was looking for many years. In one video, they have simple things. And the striking element is that you have the community members speaking, how happy they were, how they felt at home, and how much I said, okay, now he’s married. He’s part of the community. It’s very nice. So there’s elements of it. Well, I saw another video of the Marapur International Parikram. And all we saw was the sunny high seas. We didn’t see any butterflies in the video. All these spots were on the… Then I said, well, there’s something…

Yes, so it’s just… It’s just a matter of focus. Because it’s considered the other is lower, or maya. So that’s the difficulty, what we were saying before, is that the jnani, because of his knowledge in that, he’ll consider unless you come to that platform, you will not be able to actually understand Krishna consciousness. You know, but Ramanuja was pointing out, no, it goes beyond that. Anyone in any position can be connected.

Does that make sense? So to be able to see that, that’s the best position. Because if you’re indifferent to everything, therefore you can see what’s the value. Otherwise, you’ll look at everything and see your value.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s why the sannyas preaches.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s supposed to… That’s what was supposed to be brought out.

Is that okay?

Okay. So how can they recognize it? Krishna is the ultimate goal and shelter, right? Because you’re doing anything, you have a goal, right? And you have a shelter. Shelter is your identity, the environment you’re in. You have to have these two. That’s your samanda and prayojana. If those are in place, abhidheya automatically comes. But if one of those is out, then if you don’t have shelter, then how you’ll do activity, even if you have a goal, right? And if you have shelter but no goal, there’ll be no activity. So you have to see both.

Krishna is the ritual, the sacrifice, the offering to the ancestors, right? The butter, the fire and the offering. So everything connected with the ritual, the ritual itself is Krishna because that’s the essence that makes the thing work.

The sacrifice itself, because you’re doing it voluntarily for someone else’s benefit, that’s the working principle. Because if you’re doing it for yourself, then it’s on your own karma, right? But if you’re doing it for others, then you’re generating something. It’s dynamic. The offering…

Yeah. It means it’s for Krishna, it’s not for me. So every offering, then that’s said afterwards.

But you don’t hear it as much anymore. It’s an old, you know, it’s a very traditional thing. So if you do it, no one’s going to complain. But not that many do it.

You know, the transcendental chant. I mean, so in the ritual, then the chanting is working, right? You’re making the offering. The ghee. He is the ghee, because that’s what’s the medium, right? He’s the fire. He’s the one accepting it. That’s the medium, right? Without the fire, how do you do the yajna, right? He’s the offering. What’s being offered? Because, you know, any of the offering, yourself, the other items, whatever is there, the ajaman, the whole situation, why it’s being done, right? So we see all that’s connected with the ritual. The offering to the ancestors, right? Because that’s what makes it work. The ancestors are there, you’re here. What’s the connection? What benefits them? What benefits you? It’s the offering.

Right? The healing herb, right? That’s the medicine. You have a disease, you want to become healthy. What’s the connection? The herb, right? The medicine.

He is the father, the mother, the support and the grandson of the universe. Because father and mother, then that makes, you know, everything function. So you have the direction, you have the nourishment, you know, but that’s coming from Krishna. He’s the support because he’s the support of that. And he’s the grandsire, so he’s even before the mother and father. You know, so it’s before. Because that’s what, you know, your grandsire, it’s what your dynasty and all that’s based on them. Then you have your mother and father.

Krishna is the object of knowledge.

Means all knowledge, it doesn’t say certain knowledge, all knowledge is meant to understand him. Right? Your transcendental knowledge directly acknowledges that. Your Aparavidya then indirectly acknowledges that. Or it acknowledges it, but it does it through the medium of that particular branch of knowledge. Avidya means it does not recognize.

The purifier and the syllable om. Right? So what is purifying you? Whatever is the situation, that’s Krishna. Right? Means you’re doing something ritualistic like that, you’re purified, that purificatory, that potency, that’s Krishna. Right? You see something beautiful, you know, you appreciate, you’re purified. You know, you take bath in the Ganga, that potency, that’s Krishna. Right? Because one does things to purify oneself. That’s what good work, auspicious work is. The syllable om, because without om, the Vedic mantras won’t function. Right? So om is there in the beginning, om is there at the end. Right? That’s why when we open the class, then we open with chanting of Hare Krishna and we end with it. So that’s called sampat. So everything in between then functions. You chant at the beginning, then you’ll be able to understand what is being presented. You chant at the end, you’ll be able to remember it. Right? So that has to be there. That’s sampat. Here’s the three Vedas, because they’re the essence of what’s there. Right? Because the Atarva is all the miscellaneous. Like that. So whatever is essential is all being described in the three.

Krishna is the goal, you know, what you’re trying to gain. The sustainer, what position you’re coming from. The master, you know, he’s the lord of everything. The witness, he sees all. The abode, means where you’re going to situate yourself. Because you have a situation, but you’re comfortable in that situation. So that comfortableness, you know, you feel, how you situate yourself is your lifestyle, your identity, that feeling of comfort, that this is your world. That feeling, that’s Krishna. He is actually the abode. You know, you think, I made all these arrangements, now this is, I’m comfortable. But that’s actually, you made the arrangements, it’s Krishna.

The refuge, means the shelter, when nothing else is working, what everything goes back into, either good or bad, it all goes back to him. And the dearest friend, because he’s the one that’s making all this arrangement. Why? He doesn’t have to. We’ve left him, but he’s still. Right? What does the Niti say? How do you test a friend?

Where is friendship tested?

In difficulty. Right? So in adversity, when things aren’t ideal. So, we’re in the material world, that’s not exactly ideal. Right? Krishna is still our friend.

Right? Even we’re not his friend, he’s still our friend. So that makes him the best friend, the dear most friend. Right? Others will come and go, he doesn’t.

Right? So, he is the creation, the annihilation, the basis of everything. So then he and I are going up bigger. The whole creation itself, so all these things come. The annihilation, he’s the one that destroys it. And the basis, everything is based on him. So all those elements that can be created and destroyed, they’re all based on him. Right? It’s still all Brahman. The resting place, right, where everything is sitting, because otherwise, where does the creation come from? Where does the creation sit? You’ve created it, where does it sit? It still has to sit somewhere.

And the eternal seed, from him, everything is generated. There’s nothing that’s not functioning because of him. He gives heat and he withholds and sends forth rain. You know, so it’s, you know, sun comes out, you know, after the class, you get a little sun, it’s nice, but that’s Krishna. So that’s all. So, because everything is growing, the rain makes everything function. When there’s rain there, everything’s prosperous. If there’s no rain, nothing’s prosperous.

He is immortality and death personified. Right? So, the principle of eternal living, because that’s sat, so he’s sat, he’s the basis. Right? And death personified, so everybody’s, because of their being situated, temporarily, they will all be destroyed.

Both spirit and matter are in Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada summarizes this section of verses in Purport to verse 19. By analyzing all these different energies of Krishna, one can ascertain that for Krishna there is no distinction between matter and spirit. Or in other words, he is both matter and spirit. In the advanced stage of Krishna consciousness, one therefore makes no such distinctions. He sees only Krishna in everything. That’s how he can preach. It’s not all one. It’s Krishna. Of the person. It’s all his energies. Right? So, there’s, Krishna is non-different because he’s non-different from his energies. So, it’s just another energy. Right? You have a glove and you have a shoe. Right? So, one is yours and one’s not yours. Right? The glove’s on the hand, so that’s yours, but the shoe is not exactly yours because it’s not so ideal. Right? Isn’t that how it works? No. So, that’s the point. So, for Krishna, any of his energies, it’s all his energies. So, he doesn’t distinguish. The difficulty is the material means that it’s being manifest through an inferior potency.

In a spiritual platform, then it’s being manifest through a superior, eternal potency. It eternally manifests. The material energy is eternal, but it’s temporarily manifest.

But still, it’s the same.

Right? The yogic brahmins are doing yoga in Braj in the morning. Right? When Krishna gets up, they’re all chanting mantras and doing yoga. So, is he the chant? Is he the ritual? Is he the ghee? Is he the offering?

You understand? It doesn’t change. Right? What’s the goal of Mother Yashoda’s activities in the day? Serving Krishna. Right? If he’s there, does she feel, you know, comfortable in her situation? Right? So, he’s the shelter. He’s the support.

You understand? So, all these things are non-different. That’s where they come from.

But the universal form means applying those so that they are applied through this material energy. Because in creation, it’s manifest. Spiritual world is always like that. You don’t have to… There is no creation or destruction. So, you don’t have that pastime. That’s here. So, it’s just automatic. Everyone sees Krishna, so you don’t have to worry about it. But here, because they don’t, therefore all that constant changing. And because one’s looking for Krishna. Right? So, and one gets… material energy gets boring for the living entity. So, there’s that constant change of which aspect of material energy you’re looking at.

Right? And so, therefore, there has to be change.

Right? And then, because that gets overwhelming, there needs to be some rest. Therefore, there’s disillusion. Then you can take a nice nap until the next morning when Brahma wakes up and it all starts happening again. Right? So, then another 4 billion, 300 million years of insanity, and then you get a nap for that long. Right? Does that make sense? So, it’s basically where people go.

So, these both matters, they make no distinction. That’s why then, because there’s no distinction, that means whatever situation someone’s in, whatever their conditioning, you can find, you can see Krishna. So, that’s why the advanced devotee can preach to anyone in any situation.

Right? The neophyte functions in a situation that he’s comfortable in. In other words, he can preach and won’t get distracted.

Right? The Madhyama, then he has his preferred areas. Right? Just because it works nicer, it’s more efficient. Right? So, you want to be practical. So, where you can preach and it works, then that’s where you should preach. Right? At the same time, is the uttapaplava, no one can see anything, anywhere. So, that’s why you see these great devotees, so they’re acting as a Madhyama and working in their specific areas. But they can deal with anyone, anywhere.

So, it didn’t matter where Prabhupada went in the world, what culture, he was successful.

Right? Like he was going to go to that program in Japan or in China. And he put together that whole light of the Bhagavata. Because he understood that they like, you know, analogies and connecting with nature and everything. So, in other words, worshippers are the universal form. So, he just brought that out.

That’s the Atam or that’s the personified Vedas?

Description of Atam, yeah. Because these two, that and the personified. Personified Vedas are actually the original, you know, how you say, manifestation of the Bhagavatam.

Yeah, sattva-tasamhita.

Because it’s from the personified Vedas, the Vedas themselves, their discussions, that everything comes and others, then that goes out and out and out and out. It’s disseminated. Like, you know, Vyasadeva is heard from Narada and he’s giving it to Suka and then Gesuta and then he’s giving it to Saunaka. So, like that, the Bhagavatam is just expanding. But it’s original was the prayers of the personified Vedas.

So, does this make sense? So, how it is that the successful preaching is there?

Since Krsna is both matter and spirit, the gigantic universal form comprising all material manifestations is also Krsna. And His pastimes in Vrndavana as two-handed Samasundara playing on a flute are those of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So, that’s the point. He is everything, but then that’s what your inspiration is. So, you’re seeing that Krsna, how He’s coming in these pastimes here. But those pastimes are one’s absorption.

The sweetness of exchange. So, that’s what’s appreciated. But how much exchange is going on here? So, what’s the depth of exchange? As Krsna says, just a very small fraction of His potency is being manifest here. So, it’s one quarter of the cause of creation, but it’s only a spark of His potency. That’s all it takes to run the place. It doesn’t take much to run dead matter. Because the reciprocation is not very great. But in the spiritual world, there where they fully appreciate, therefore, He can manifest fully.

I was just misreading.

Because Kunti’s, Prayers of Queen Kunti, she’s describing how Krsna is, you know, how you say, equal with everyone.

And then Prabhupada’s purport, defining that just like the sun, it gives its light. Its light is there. Anyone can take advantage. But the point is, only some take advantage. Right?

So, it’s not that it’s not there. So, Krsna is giving the facility for anyone to be Krsna conscious. You know, to fulfill their needs and desires. But as they actually appreciate, then He reciprocates. So, if they only see Him as karma, or as jnana, or as yoga, then that He reciprocates. If one sees His devotion, then He reciprocates that. Therefore, it appears He’s, how do you say, partial to the devotees.

Like that. But He’s not, actually. That’s because the devotees deal with that. But that’s what He’s interested in. But that facility that anybody could be in that position to interact with God, so He appears to be partial, is open to anybody.

Does that make sense?

Verses 20 to 25 describe the demigod worshipers and compare them with the devotees. Those who study the Vedas with the purpose of attaining the heaven and planets are indirect worshipers of Krsna.

Purified of sins, they attain indriya-sambhog to enjoy godly delights. After their pious activities are exhausted, they again fall down to this mortal planet. Thus sense enjoyment through the Vedas results in repeated birth and death.

Verses 20 to 21. Notice in here is that you do good work, then Krsna doesn’t have any problem that you get facilities.

Right? But, if the facilities aren’t connected to Him, then you’ll fall down again here. They’ll be taken away.

Does that make sense? And even if you say, OK, well, I’ll do everything connected to Krsna so He won’t take it away, what Krsna’s pointing out, but then He’s beyond what you’re getting from, beyond as a person what you’re getting from the facility. And what you’re getting from the facility is actually Him. Just you’re indirectly worshiping Him. Right? So He’s always trying to bring to this direct.

Does that make sense? So, that means then, if you apply this, it’s not a problem if the community has facilities. Oh, He has a Mercedes. Who do you think He is? Oh, this is all mine. It doesn’t matter. If it’s used for Krsna, what do you care?

You understand? The guy who runs the temple business, like that, he keeps a certain percentage, but, you know, he’s good at it, so it starts growing. So, OK, you know, he gets, you know, a thousand bucks a month and, you know, gives, you know, you know, three, four to the temple and that’s cool. OK. Now, what happens when he’s giving a hundred thousand to the temple and he’s making twenty -five thousand?

So, according to this principle, it’s not a problem. But if you don’t understand this, why should he have twenty-five thousand? He used to have a thousand. So, he should give ninety-nine to the temple and keep only one thousand. So, now, is his business going to work? No, because he’s not inspired. And then, oh, he’s not sincere. He’s in maya. No, it’s just because you think it’s important. The point is, you used to get three thousand, now you get seventy-five thousand. So, isn’t that not good?

You understand? So, this principle is, it doesn’t matter if they’re… It’s silly. If they’ve worked, if they’ve worked for it, why they shouldn’t have it? They didn’t work for it and they demand it, that’s another thing.

Does this make sense?

So, you can see, one is saying, the philosophy is not practical. It’s very practical. You don’t know this philosophy. You’ll make this mistake.

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in his commentary to verse twenty, Though they do not know that the forms of Indra and other Devatas are My forms alone, they are actually worshiping Me, whom situated in those respective forms, by jyoti -sthoma and other sacrifices prescribed in the three Vedas.

Drinking the remnants of sacrifice, sthoma, and being purified of sins, which obstruct their attainment of svarga, they pray for svarga. It should be understood that the enjoyment they obtain is actually given only by Me.

So, the demigod, the position, the potency that’s there, what they give, how it’s given, you know, what you can do with it after you get it, the enjoyment you get from it, that’s all Krsna.

So, if that’s appreciated, then that starts, but then with time, the point is, is what Krsna’s getting, with time, there’s still Him as a person, so what would He like? In the beginning, it’s what I like, and I’m seeing Krsna now, it’s so great, and I feel one’s advancing, one’s being purified, but then as one gets purified, then it’s kind of like, well, what about Krsna as a person? What is it, what does He like about it?

So, it’s the interaction with Him that’s important, not the focus on the indirect. In other words, you’re doing the indirect activity, but you’re focusing on the direct. That’s what Krsna’s interested in. Does that make sense?

Verse 22, contrasts the demigod worshipers with the devotees. Devotees who worship Krsna in exclusive devotion are awarded perfect Krsna consciousness. Once they are situated in Krsna consciousness, the Lord protects them from falling to conditioned life.

In His purport, Srila Prabhupada defines exclusive devotion as follows.

One who is unable to live for a moment without Krsna consciousness cannot but think of Krsna twenty-four hours a day, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, and remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship, and surrendering fully to the Lord.

Such a devotee undoubtedly approaches the Lord without difficulty.

Right? Because if you fall, then you’re not approaching. So such a devotee will always approach. So it will work in that direction. Interesting here, serving the lotus feet of the Lord and rendering other services.

You know, that dasya, in other words, the Lord, His, what do you call it, His paraphernalia, and then other services. You know, go beyond.

Verse 22 is confirmed again in 12, Chapter 12, verses 6 to 7. But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me, and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service, and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Prtha, for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.

Right? So we see here the focus on the activity being done in relation to Krsna and always being absorbed in Krsna. Right? So that naturally goes through that. To do that, to do the activity, you have to have knowledge. You know, to think about Krsna, then there has to be something that you’ve associated with to catch the attention.

The Lord personally takes His devotees back to the spiritual world. This is in contrast with the yogis who are promoted to higher positions by the demigods. Bhagavad-gita 8.24. So He’s contrasting.

He’s giving their position and then shows. So the demigod worshipers, they go and they enjoy it, but they come back. Right? Does that make sense? But the devotees, then they don’t.

Taking care of the devotees is not a burden for the Lord. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur explains in his commentary, One should not say that in giving the burden of their maintenance to the worshipable Lord, the devotees show lack of prema. In fact, they do not give me that burden. I, by my own will, accept it. It should also be understood that I am not bearing it as duty, as I create and maintain the universe by my will alone. Rather, being attached to my devotees, I take the greatest pleasure in taking care of their needs, like carrying the weight of one’s lover.

So always in his commentary, it’s like Krsna speaking, you know, bringing out these finer points.

So it’s not, Oh, I don’t want to go to Krsna for this. Then who are you going to go to? Oh, I don’t want to bother Krsna with this. Then who are you going to bother? You know, it’s not good to bother. It means there’s higher levels of dealing with Krsna than bothering with material facility or anxieties or other things. But if you don’t go to Him, where are you going to go? Then where is the Krsna consciousness? So it seems, Oh, yeah, no, it’s maya, so I won’t go to Krsna for this. Great, but then where are you going to go? Then you depend upon yourself. Then you’re the Lord.

You know, you’re the doer. You’re the cause.

Make sense? So that’s the point. Better you go to Him. But at the same time, it’s then he’s showing that more is that the devotee is just dependent upon Krsna, always absorbed in serving Krsna, so he’s not worried about his own maintenance. So Krsna takes care of that.

So in any case, it’s not a problem. So one, he directly takes care of. The other one, he takes care of through his agencies. He gets it done. You know, just like, let’s say someone comes and they want something done, so he calls the secretary, he says, Okay, take care of this. So through his machinations, it gets done. Right? But then the other is that the person comes and because of his closeness, then he’ll personally do it himself.

You know, he’ll personally call that person and get them, you know, get this and like this and bring it. See, that’s all nice.

So that’s the difference.

According to verse 15, the demigod worshipers worship Krsna indirectly. Verse 23 answers the question, Since the demigod worshipers are ultimately worshiping Krsna, surely they will receive the same results as Krsna’s unloyed devotees.

It is true that those who worship demigods are worshiping Krsna, but they do it in a wrong way. Krsna is pointing this out. They have incorrect knowledge and follow an incorrect process. Therefore, the result they achieve is imperfect.

Right? So because the knowledge is wrong, therefore the process will be wrong. Your knowledge is right, your process will be right. So therefore, your goal will be right.

Their worship is compared to watering the leaves instead of watering the root. Krsna is the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Because these demigod worshipers do not recognize His true transcendental nature, they fall down in material existence. Right? Because they’ll be elevated, but then they’ll come back down again. And you think, OK, according to Jaimini, you elevate yourself to heavenly planets, enjoy there, come back here, do more pious activities and go back again. OK? It goes on eternally. Maybe you say, OK, well, the universe is destroyed, but the universe will be recreated again. And then when it’s recreated, you’ll come back into it with the same pious activities as you had done before. So don’t worry. You don’t lose anything. That’s His theory. Right? Sounds good. No? But problem is that Krsna says they fall down. Because there they have so much sense enjoyment and then when they come here, you can’t get that kind of sense enjoyment. And so how will they get it? Through pious activities? No, they want it right now. Because the demigods were just enjoying it. So they want to enjoy now. That’s the practice. So what will they do?

Impious activities. Sinful activities. So then what will happen? Then they’ll go down. Come on. We need plants and animals.

Otherwise it’ll be like Little Prince or something. Ball and guy standing on it. Nothing else there.

Those who worship demigods will take birth among them. While those who worship ancestors will go to the ancestors. Those who worship ghosts and spirits will reach such beings. Those who worship Krsna will live with Him. So when some different people think that their ancestors are alligators, different things, they will go there. So they will be ancestors. So then cycle goes on.

In his commentary to this verse, Srila Baladeva Dvina Gosvami compares the devotees and the demigod worshippers. So this is verse 23.

The worshippers of beings other than me thinks as follows. We are worshippers of Indra and other Devatas. They are our Lords. Being pleased by a service, they will give us the result we desire. My devotees think as follows. The son of Vasudeva, the Lord of all, endowed with all powers, who is situated in the Devatas, who is our master, being worshipped by easily obtainable items and actions, will give all our desired results.

Though they perform exactly the same actions, those who serve the Devatas attain their desired goals alone because of their distaste of thinking of me. They, with short lifespan, attain meager fortune, and after enjoying those limited items, they are also destroyed along with those forms of enjoyment. So meager enjoyment. So being Indra or being… That is meager enjoyment.

And after enjoying those unlimited… those limited items… Okay. But those who serve me attain me. I am the Lord of all beings, the beginningless shelter. I fulfill all desires, have infinite powers, am composed of pure knowledge and bliss, and am most affectionate to the devotees. They never leave me. They experience unlimited happiness close to me and play in my divine abode.

In verses 11 to 25, the Lord described different types of worship. In the last nine verses of this chapter, 26 to 34, He encourages us for our own good to worship Him in the mood of pure devotion.

So the same duty is performed, but the one is thinking, I’m doing my duties and the results are going to come from these demigods. I’ve done my duties. They will be pleased. They will give me all my facilities.

But the devotee understands is that it’s Krsna’s potency that’s in the devata. So it’s Krsna that’s actually doing this. So this activity is the same, Krsna’s saying.

And because of this, then the devotee attains whatever the demigod would be giving because the potency in the demigod that’s actually giving is Krsna. But the difference is the one will attain the demigods and then after some time, that will all be finished. The piety, the demigods, the place of the demigods. So Brahma’s end of the day, up through Indra’s planet, everything’s all destroyed. So everything’s wiped out. But the devotee, then he performs the same activities and then he goes back to Godhead. He’s with Krsna.

So…

Any questions on this?

I told you that one about the… Okay. Go ahead.

Directly… Yeah, now it’s because of insecurity. Yes, that’s why… Bhagavatam, you see, this first story is there’s an element of establishing security. Right? I mean, if you have a brahmastra directed at your womb, then, you know, if someone can save you from that, then, you know… It shows he can do… He’s pretty good. That’s the most powerful weapon in the universe. So if he can protect you from that, then… So that… That potion of that protection, that nourishment, that’s one of the first things that’s established in Bhagavatam.

So we’re trying to…

become secure that Krsna will take care. Right? Like, see, Draupadi, she tried at first to protect herself, but then when she couldn’t, then she surrendered to Krsna, then Krsna supplied the… Sorry, she wasn’t supplying beforehand. It wasn’t that she’s trying, and then she notices, wow, look at all that huge pile of sorry there. Because I could let go, and, you know, he could be pulling all day, and he would never… No. It’s that when she surrendered, then it happened.

Does that make sense? So that’s the point of faith. As the faith matures, one advances. So that faith will mean that one is secure.

That’s why Krsna keeps saying this point.

But those who serve Me attain Me. I am the Lord of all beings, the beginningless shelter. I fulfill all desires. I have infinite power. So, beginningless shelter. So it’s there, I fulfill all desires. How does He do that? Through unlimited powers. I am composed of pure knowledge and bliss. So, you know, everything is there. So sac-cid-ananda. You don’t get more than that. So that’s… Right? And most affectionate. Okay, so maybe they’re maybe boring, but no, He’s affectionate.

Right? Because others and others, you know, you go to heaven or whatever, then what’s the relation with God? Where’s the exchange?

Right? It’s not mentioned, really.

Right? They experience unlimited happiness close to Me and play in My divine abode. Right? So then you’ll be… feel comfortable.

You know?

Is that okay?

Just hear the background.

So, the demigods and the demigod worshippers, they do good work and they get good results. Could you… It seems somehow that they’re getting a little too good results or good results in the wrong way or something. No, the point is this. What… Why is it… Why are they getting good results?

They’re pious, but what does that piety consist of? And that activity is connected to? Yeah, but they don’t see it. That’s why they’re getting it at result, but it’s so less. Just like this. Krishna is saying they’re doing exactly… Although they perform exactly the same actions, those who serve the Devotees attain their desired goals alone because of the distaste of thinking of Me. Right? But those who serve Me attain Me. They experience unlimited happiness close to Me in plain… So, you’re performing an activity. One, you’re getting unlimited happiness eternally. And the other, you’re getting a great amount of happiness for a short time. So, how is that…

They’re getting too much or they’re getting too little.

Right? And why are they getting too little? Because they’re not seeing it in connection to the Lord. So, therefore, they only get what they want.

What’s the problem? The guy is very pious. He’s been getting up, taking his cold morning bath every day of his life.

Does that make sense? He does his puja. He does his chants, his mantras. He reads his scripture. He goes to the temple every day.

So, why you would not want to see him get a good result? Why do you think it’s too much? No. What I’m thinking is that if he got a little less, then maybe he would stop connecting to Krishna and not get so lax and enjoy so much. But the thing is, is he’s getting less and then he may go somewhere else. Yeah. We don’t want that. Yeah. But the point is, is less means… He is getting less. He’s still birth and death. That’s still less. See, because you’re comparing it to what we get here. I go nine to five job and I only get this much. But this guy, if he did puja and worship that much, he may become Indra. So, why is he getting so much and I’m getting so little? Because he’s connecting to the Shastra. He’s leading the pious lifestyle. And then the other person is not.

Or even if he is, if he’s getting less, that’s just the position from before. You’ve done something, so now, you know, you’re in a position where for your full day’s work, you get less. But if you perform your duties, then you’re elevated. So, depending upon how high up you connected, that’s how far you go.

Does that make sense?

So, you have to compare it to eternal.

Then it’s like it’s a little bit meager.

It’s just like, okay, the guy’s got a Ferrari. This is, yeah, but Indra’s got a chariot with a thousand horses. And it can fly in the sky.

You pulled up, they always have the joke, the limousine pulls up and it just keeps going. It goes fast and then finally you get to the end. Like that. So, a thousand horses, you know how long they would be going by that red carpet before you finally get out? Be like that. People would be like, who is this? Like that. No one would be looking at those limousines anymore.

Yes? On the point of not jeopardizing the security, that would also be connected to the preacher not taking the beginning from what is good. Yeah, means you keep what’s good. You ignore what’s bad. I mean, you just sidestep what’s bad and start with what’s good because that is part of their identity. That is their value. It’s just one side of it. What they consider secondary is actually the main. You know? It’s like people say, you know, they got to have a house. Why do they have to have a house?

Security. But then they go and say, I need security. So, therefore, I’m going to get a house. People don’t talk like that. Just, I need a house. You understand? So, what’s actually primary, they’re taking as secondary. What’s secondary, they’re taking as primary. Right? So, the Adi Daivik and the Adi Yagya, that’s primary. But they’re taking the Adi Bhautik.

So, all you’re doing is taking the Adi Daivik and Adi Yagya elements of what they’re doing. Because they only see the Adi Bhautik. So, you start with that. And they won’t complain because that is what they’re looking for. And if need be, if they don’t mention it, you can bring it out. You know? So, everybody has a house because they want to be secure. So, security is there. Or ask them questions. You know, it depends on the forum.

That make sense? Yeah? So, it ends here. We’ll continue tomorrow with the 26 to 34. So, nine verses, but they go for a while.

Om Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Like we said before, the Hare Krsna is the sampat. Om is also there, but the Om is not because it’s essential for chanting or because of that. It’s the Om because then we’ll all hit the same note before we start saying Hare Krsna. Otherwise, it’s a bit of a cacophony.

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