Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #44

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #44

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We are going to start with the Bhagavad -gītā and then we are going to move on to the next Bhagavad -gītā.

So, is there any, does it have the effect of the observances?

Okay, so then one doesn’t worry about those things.

Okay.

Verses 9 to 13, Yoga Misrabhakti.

Verses 5 to 8 emphasize the importance of remembering Kṛṣṇa. In verse 9 the Lord explains how he should be remembered. One should meditate on Kṛṣṇa as the one who knows everything, the oldest, the controller, the smallest, the smaller than the smallest, the maintainer of everything beyond all material conceptions, inconceivable, luminous like the sun, transcendental, beyond the material nature, and who is always the Supreme Person. The most important message of verse 9 is that Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal or void.

At the end of chapter 7, the Lord introduced the Yoga Misra devotee, the one who desires liberation from old age and death and takes refuge in Kṛṣṇa in devotional service. Verses 10 to 13 are a continuation of the same topic. They outline the process of Yoga Misrabhakti, sat -cakra yoga. In verse 10 it is stated that the yogi who, by the strength of yoga with an undeviating mind, fixes his life air between his eyebrows at the time of death and engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, in full devotion, certainly attains to the Lord. Those who learn it in the Vedas, who utter Aum, and who are great sages in the renounced order, enter into Brahman. Desire sets perfection when practices celibacy, detachment from all sensual engagement, closing all the doors of the senses and fixing the mind on the heart and the life air at the top of the head, establishing oneself in transcendence and vibrating the sacred syllable Aum. If one thinks of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and quits his body, he will certainly reach the spiritual planets. It is important to note that the essential message of this section is to remember Kṛṣṇa. One can approach the Lord according to one’s own taste, using some of the recognized processes, but the ultimate result of these practices should be devotional service in the form of constant remembrance of the Lord. This is the actual goal of yoga. Therefore, techniques like fixing the life air between the eyebrows or practice of celibacy are useful only to assist a yogi in remembering Kṛṣṇa.

So, in these things is that, as Prabhupāda was saying, is that devotional service is the topic, but at the same time to understand it very nicely in our conditioned state, or at least for application in our conditioned state, then the processes, the different aspects or different processes of yoga are to be studied. The different individuals, so the karma yoga, jñāna yoga, jñāna yoga, all these must be studied. Then one can see technically what’s going on. So the point here is that the senses are removed from the sense objects and one is engaged in remembering the Lord. So, that’s the same point. It’s just being brought from another aspect. The karma yogi is pulling back the senses. How is he pulling them back? Because the results are not for him. Because you make an endeavor, but it’s not until the result. You can only enjoy the result. Does that make sense? So, therefore, the result’s for Kṛṣṇa. And that means the activity is to gain that result for Kṛṣṇa, so the activity becomes for Kṛṣṇa. So then all that is connected. So the senses are pulled back. And because one’s doing that for Kṛṣṇa, one’s meditating on Kṛṣṇa.

Because you’re doing an activity, then the focus will be on that activity to see it goes right. But it’s still overall is for Kṛṣṇa. So you see the meditation part is there, but it won’t be as prominent as the astanga yogi because he doesn’t do anything else except meditate. But to do that means he has to actually stop the life air, stop the senses, stop everything. Then it works. But, as Arjuna pointed out, not so practical. But the point of always remembering Kṛṣṇa, that’s very practical. What we see then is done through engaging the senses in works that are done for Kṛṣṇa. That knowledge is there, so the intelligence is engaged. Then for Kṛṣṇa. So we see it in connection to Kṛṣṇa. So in all these things, then the same point is one removes oneself from material engagement and one focuses on Kṛṣṇa. So that means the activity will be for Kṛṣṇa, the knowledge will be for Kṛṣṇa, the thought will be about Kṛṣṇa. So it’s the same thing, it’s just how it will be done. So in yoga and in jñāna, then there has to be celibacy. In karma there doesn’t have to be. But in the other two, then it’s required. Otherwise it doesn’t function so good. It’s too much distraction, because you’re distracted by activities. But the activities that are connected to Kṛṣṇa, so then it all works very nicely. Does that make sense? So this is the essential elements of yoga. So here we see this is being brought out, that the main point of yoga is this element of its being absorbed in Kṛṣṇa.

So we’re just bringing out the aspect of how it is mixed. So here the mixing we’re not saying is a problem. The difficulty is that if the emphasis is on Kṛṣṇa, if the emphasis is on that, then the mix is not a problem. Right? But if it’s not, then it’s a…

Having explained the practices of yoga-misra-bhakti, or how one attached to yoga and liberation can remember Him, Kṛṣṇa next describes pure devotional service. Yes. I have a question about the purport for verse 8, 11. In there, Prabhupāda says that in the Vedic system of knowledge, students from the very beginning are taught to vibrate home and learn of the ultimate and personal Brahman by living with the spiritual master and complete celibacy. In this way they realize two of Brahman’s features. What are those features?

We’ll have to see if it mentions somewhere.

Oh, he said 11.

Yeah.

I’m not sure unless it’s been something before. Do you know what he’s referring to? Two features? No? Okay. I mean, unless it’s… What did he say?

I would think it’s something to do with perfection.

I mean, the two that we deal with is the…

the ultimate cause and the formal cause. Because you’re dealing with…

Because the Brahman is still personal. It’s part of Brahman. But the point is, is it’s non-interactive. You’re not… You appreciate your seeing. So in other words, you’re existing in the state of appreciating Kṛṣṇa’s existing in everything.

Right? But within that, then there’s going to be the dynamic of Him being the quality that is being obtained by the formal cause.

You know what I’m saying? So in other words, there’s a quality, because that’s what makes the Brahman. The Brahman is actually the effulgence of Kṛṣṇa’s qualities. Right? So being non-dual, that means that everything is imbued with quality. If it’s Brahman, it’s imbued with quality. And it’s the quality that we’re attracted to. Right? Because attraction means then something can be gained. Right? So that means there must be a quality that can deliver what it is. Or the quality is what you want, so there must be a method, a field, through which you can gain it. Right? So I would think these two would come to my mind as the two aspects of Brahman. It’s the masculine and feminine principle.

You know? Because otherwise, because He’s celibate, therefore He can appreciate it. You know what I’m saying? Like that. Like Prabhupāda. You can see. He can talk so easily about family life, you know, down to all variety of details. And it’s exact, because it’s just, you’re looking at it what it is, like he says. Sex life is just squeezing.

You know, others will think, oh, it’s this, and that, and so many things that are a man, so many emotions. It’s just squeezing.

You know what I’m saying? So then it means this, because being celibate, you look at it in a different light. You look at it just the mechanics of it. It’s just, that’s all it is. You know, cooking means you are exposing something edible to fire, to heat, you know, in some form, in some way. That’s the cooking process. Then you say, oh, there’s so many ways. No, but they’re all the same. Whether you’re steaming something, boiling it, deep frying it, baking it, you’re exposing something edible to heat. And you apply it long enough till it becomes, you know, soft, or whatever stage you would call edible. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So that’s all it is. Then there’s so many techniques of that. Does that make sense? So, probably just look at it very clearly like this, because that’s the mechanics of it. What is it you’re trying to obtain and all that? That’s what is the Brahman. You know, that’s a technique.

But what is it trying to obtain?

That’s the quality. See, that’s your ultimate cause. That’s why you’re involved in something, is because of the ultimate cause. It’s called Krishna’s quality. So that quality in the Brahman that you’re looking at, you know what I’m saying? You’re looking at, let’s say, beauty. But then what is, so that’s the original cause. What’s the formal cause? You know, what forms are taken to obtain that beauty? What activities does one have to do to obtain beauty?

You know what I’m saying? So these are all coming from it. So these two things, then Brahman one appreciates.

Right? Because then it just brings everything back to the Lord and there’s non-interactiveness.

But that’s, you know, how you say, one has to be detached from the material engagement for that to be appreciated.

Does that make sense? I mean, that’s what would come to my mind. But there may be something else, somewhere else. You know, that’s referred to. I’m not sure.

I don’t know. We’d have to see from earlier or later.

Yes?

You have various manifestations and features. So maybe that’s the two, manifestations and features.

Omkar and?

Okay.

Yeah, that could also, here. Yeah, that could also do. I would say is that that would be one, but also you have the thing is manifestations and features. Because the feature would be what is the quality you’re looking for, and the manifestation would be what would obtain it. At the same time, is then for those who, that would be Parabrahman, but those who only understand Brahman, then the Omkar and the impersonal or the salvation, their liberated state of existence.

So I think it would work on both. Yeah, that’s a good observation. Does that make sense? Because Prabhupada is only going to mention something that he has a reference for, unless he’s giving some other thing, you know, than generally. You just then, it’s something that is considered general knowledge in the Vedic standards, so he may not explain it. But something like this would always be a reference. Is that okay?

Okay. Verses 14 to 16.

Pure devotional service. So 14. For one who always remembers Me without deviation, I am easy to obtain, O son of Pritha, because of His constant engagement in devotional service. After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries because they have attained the highest perfection. From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery, when repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again.

The Lord has already described bhakti mixed with karma. Arto jijyasu artharti.

7.16. Bhakti mixed with desire for liberation. Jara marana-moksyaya.

And bhakti mixed with yoga. 8.9 to 13. Now the Lord speaks of kevala-bhakti, the highest bhakti, which is devoid of any material tinge in the notes, besides arto, jijyasu and artharti.

Bhagavad-gita 7.16 mentions the jnani, who does not have desire for material results or for liberation. Therefore he is not classified among the devotees who want something in exchange for their devotional service. Still, according to Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, the jnani retains some elements of jnana, while practicing bhakti and is thus distinguished from the kevala -bhakti who practices bhakti alone. Because the jnani then also can be established as a neophyte devotee. But his sincerity that he wants to know Krsna, wants to please Krsna, is there. But there’ll be the element of jnana, wanting to know so he can properly worship, properly deal with Krsna. He’s not that distinguished from the jijyasu who just wants to have knowledge. And once he’s gained that, then he may lose interest and go somewhere else, you know. You know, that means… What do you call it? Because there are so many vast topics like that.

OK. So the kevala-bhakti means that he’s beyond this. These aren’t his focus at all. Right? So then we’ll see here is that being fixed in there, practicing in this way, he’ll come to that platform. So this…

This pure devotion means the intent is there. One may not be completely pure. This is the important element to note is that, you know, just as the moon is appreciated for its, you know, beauty and its coolingness, but it still has spots.

Right? Is that the devotee being focused on Krishna, not wanting anything there, but from the past activities, there is still something remaining. So those things, by performing a devotional service, those will go away. So that’s why Krishna is saying he will obtain. Right? Because otherwise, where someone has come to that platform, he says he has attained. Right? Krishna makes that point. So he will attain. So… And he’s very dear because he’s only focused on Krishna. These are just habits from the past, so that these things just slowly, slowly go away by the process. But they’re not his focus. So they may be engaged, they may be different things, he may analyze them according to his knowledge. But he’s not interested in getting a result, so he’s performing activities, naiskaramya, and he is not wanting liberation.

Right? So therefore, then this comes to the point of the cable of bhakti. So it’s a matter of where the focus is, because the whole thing is consciousness. The focus is right, it works. This is very important because otherwise you may say, oh, but he has faults, I saw, you know, he’s attached to this or that. But in his mind, that’s not his focus. Right? Just like Narada Muni, when he’s discussing with Vyasadeva about when he was the son of a maidservant. And then he says, you know, I was not interested in playing, I was not, you know, I was just focused on, you know, the spiritual life. But in the purport, Prabhupada said, he’s a kid, of course he’s playing and doing all these things, you know, what kid is not? But in his mind, he wasn’t thinking, yeah, now I want to go play. No, he’s thinking of Krishna, and just because he’s a kid, they play, they do different things. You understand? So what’s the intent? Just like, let’s say, someone who’s just new in Krishna consciousness, new and fresh to them and that, all they think about is the Krishna consciousness and doing things connected to that. But if you look at it, they probably have much more anartas and activities that are not so useful than someone who’s more mature in devotional service. Right? But you don’t notice that, you just see that enthusiasm, that freshness, that interest, that drive. You understand? Because that’s what’s important, because that’s what’s in the relationship.

Right? You have a good friend, and what’s important? You know, that aspect of interaction, or, you know, what he does in his spare time.

You understand? So, the point is, Krishna’s a person, so this is what’s important. You know, is he important? Is that what you’re trying to obtain? Is that what you… That’s what’s important. And other things, then that’s another aspect.

Does that make sense? You know, so… So, with time, everything will match. So, in the beginning, it may not match. But if one continues, it’ll all match.

Does that make sense?

Because of constant engagement, devotional service, Krishna’s easily obtained by a devotee who always remembers him without deviation. The pure devotee means, as before, he said, if you’re always remembering Krishna till the time of death, you will remember. So, if he’s always remembering now, that will happen then. So, it’s anyway. And Krishna’s there, he will help, as we’ll see when we get to the tenth chapter. Right? Then Krishna makes it very clear, his position.

The pure devotee’s only desire is to please Krishna. Therefore, his mind is exclusively fixed on Krishna, and he wards off all desires and thoughts not related to unflinching devotional service. So, he wards off all desires. It doesn’t mean they won’t come. As we mentioned yesterday, devotees would harass another devotee because he would think of different things. And he would, you know, being, how you say, simple or being open, you know, trying to be, you know, not from the material honest, but just trying to association, guhyamaketi, prichati. Then he would discuss with others, and then they would take that and use that against him in a political way, you know, find fault.

So, one, that’s, you know, so, this is wrong. Krishna’s not agreeing with that because it’s not, desires come up, because otherwise it was there. How is it in Yamunacharya? He’s an all-war. He’s one of the twelve previous acharyas. We accept, and the Ramanujas accept, like Kula Sekara. You know, we always talk about Kula. He’s one of the twelve all-wars. Like that. So, we don’t have it. Yamunacharya, he’s one of the all-wars. So, like this, Yamunacharya, you know, he was a king.

Actually, it’s Yamunacharya who’s, yeah, he was the king. So, therefore, he was a brahmacharya, then he went and defeated the pundit, and then he was given half the kingdom, so he became a king. And then later on, one of his godbrothers had to come and buy a trick and get him back out, you know, because he had this favorite spinach, so he would bring it every day. So he was eating it very much like, and then one day he didn’t bring it, so then they wanted to know, where is this guy? So then, when he did come back, then the king saw him, and then he reminded him of his previous devotional service. So, one can say, well, how is this an all-war? Right? But, this is not how it works. The point is, it’s connection to Krishna. Like that. Just another thing, also, to note is, when it, oh, we use the term, here, pure devotional service, we use pure devotee, pure devotee starts from a Madhyama. Madhyama is a pure devotee. Right? Neophyte may be, may not be, but Madhyama is. So that’s where it starts, because we’ll say pure devotee, and then we’ll put it way off in the distance. No, pure devotional service can be performed from Nishta.

Right? Because that’s it. You’re fixed. That’s the point. Constant engagement. So one’s fixed.

Like that. So, does that make sense?

So, therefore, his mind is exclusively fixed on Krishna. He wards off all desires and thoughts not related to unflinching devotional service to the Supreme Lord. smartha vyasa satatam visnur vismartha vyona jato cit He does not have any selfish desires, and as a result, he enjoys perfect peace. Right? So, one has to be liberal in that way. Liberal meaning, one has to be one has to not have, that should not bother you about others if they’re fixed in their devotion and they’re moving forward. At the same time, one also has to have this attitude towards oneself. It’s not a liberality. It’s all right that, you know, one thinks this and no. It’s a matter of even that thinks that still, you go on. Right? Manu makes this point. As a brahmana does not berate himself for something that’s gone wrong. He takes it, okay, now what to do and move forward is berating yourself constantly. That’s a mode of ignorance.

Right? As we see, you see, there’s a difference between, between the modern concept of having, you know, finding fault in oneself and what we see in the acharyas. You read the songs, they’ll say, yes, I’m very fallen, I’m absorbed in all these things, but I just want to remember you and that. It’s a moment. They go, this is my position, but I’m trying to be absorbed in you. But the modern is, this is my position, I’m so disgusting, I’m so useless and I can’t do anything and this and that. And then, that’s your, then what are you supposed to do? You know, so perfection is, if you can say, oh, I’m so disgusting, then everyone will go, oh, now that’s honest. Now he’s, now he’s a nice guy. No, he’s in the mode of ignorance.

Right? It’s nothing to do with a nice guy. You know? Oh, this is so truthful. That’s not truth. Truth is Krishna. So the point is, is saying, I’m fallen. How do you define fallen? It’s not connected to Krishna. So you’re saying, I’m fallen, that’s the position and I’m, you know, I want to remember you. I want to be absorbed in your service. So that’s where you are, what you want to get. So, please engage me in your service. That’s your abhidheya. So your samadhanabhidheya is complete. So it’s progressive. So it’s not that you can’t see what the fault is, but it’s the one’s not absorbed in it. Otherwise, what’s one’s meditation? Yeah, on the fault, not on Krishna. So therefore, Krishna doesn’t want it either. Right? The modern think is, yes, that’s good. But the modern think is stemming from ignorance.

It’s just pure ignorance. I don’t care who’s talking. It’s pure ignorance.

Maybe politically correct, but that’s the point. It’s correct on the political field. And what political field? Manu? Chanakya? No, somebody made it up.

So, what’s the use? Just Maya. Right? So, that means is, one has to be able to forgive oneself. That doesn’t mean that you say, oh, now it’s alright, it doesn’t matter that this is done. No, it’s a matter of, it’s done wrong, now try again.

Right? Why is it that a little kid, let’s say, parents and their small kid move to a new country. Right? New language. They don’t speak the language. Okay. Now, they’ve been there for three months. After three months, who talks the language? The kid. And after how many years the parents are still just, they can get to the market? Yeah. Why? Because the kid will make a mistake, doesn’t matter, he’ll try again and again. But the adult will make a mistake, that’s it, I’m not doing that again.

So, it’s the same in devotional service. You make the mistake, okay, that’s wrong. Now, what should I do? Now, do that. That didn’t work. Okay, it wasn’t just a matter of, it was the right activity, but, you know, I didn’t have determination or there was something wrong. Whatever it is, analyze it. That’s where the knowledge is there. That’s what the jnana is for. Right? Then one performs the activity again and again and again. That’s practice. Because if you’re perfect, why would it be called sadhana bhakti? Right? Sadhana bhakti means it’s not perfect. Right? The gopis, Krishna played the flute, they didn’t go. So, that’s not perfect. So, what did they do? They tried to correct that. Next time, when Krishna plays the flute, then they go. Otherwise, hey, he didn’t go. That’s it, finished. You know, eternally damned. Sorry. My God. Oh, there are the gopis that didn’t go.

Yeah? Could you use a scientific example that the the light, some people call it a wave, some people call it a particle. We want to try and get it one thing or the other. It actually is both. Yeah?

Yeah.

I would say, in more detail, you have to ask a man that is not here now. Our wave particle man finishes on that pillar over there. He’s not here today. Yeah. The point is, is that, is sankarsana means you understand the field. So, you can see what’s right, what’s wrong, what’s to do, what’s not to do. But, unless there’s enthusiasm to work with that field, pradyumna, to get a result, aniruddha, there’s not going to be any activity or vasudeva. So, the modern idea is if I look at sankarsana and then I identify all the problems and I just absorb myself in that and that self-absorption, somehow or another is progressive. But it’s not doing anything. Though it seems, oh, he’s so emotional and he’s so absorbed. But what is the emotion? The emotion is about himself. It’s nothing to do with anybody else. Because until it comes to pradyumna, where there’s some interest and inclination working with the field, only then you can include others.

So, all it is, is just, it’s all about you. It’s just a tricky way to make it all about you. Because the people who are politically correct, it’s all about themselves, nobody else. And so, if you’re like that, then they’re comfortable with you. But if you think of other things and there’s other considerations of other people, they don’t like that. Because it’s direct. And we make it indirect, like this and that. It looks like it’s about others, but it’s not.

You understand what I’m saying? This is what Krishna talks about.

Irreligion means you take what’s religion and say it’s irreligious. And what’s irreligious, you say it’s religion. That’s all. It’s that obvious, that blunt. Of course, it’s not politically correct to say that, but hey, who cares?

You know, Krishna’s talking here, you want to please him, go back to Godhead, or do you want to stay here and be the politically correct man? Like that. Or, let’s say, politically correct person.

All right.

Yes. In this topic, you’re exposing about oneself, just like yourself when you make a mistake. I find in my personal experience that when I did that, my self-image as someone who could actively do something got a lot weakened. Yes. And when I just tried to forgive myself, as you mentioned, and then move forward to let’s do it better, but I found a lot of resistance in putting that forward. Because, because, what is their background? Is it the mode of, mode of goodness means present. What’s going, what’s right now? What to do with it? Because they want to absorb themselves in the past. That’s ignorance. So what’s the Western culture? Passion and ignorance. So it has to be future or past. Present just doesn’t fly.

You know what I’m saying? If you can somehow describe present, then you can write a book. You know, Be Here Now, or something like this. You know, all these kind of things. But it’s, they can’t understand because you look at it, it’s just like this. Take a very, you go back in time. You know, a good Christian, you know, he could take a, you know, cat o’ nine and flog himself and walk through the seas. Oh, I’m so sinful. I’m so this. And now we go, wow, this guy’s a saint.

You know what I’m saying? So, it’s nice that he’s understood his position. But the point is, is to be absorbed in that and not do something about it. That’s the mode of ignorance.

Okay, you’re fallen. Now what are you going to do about it? You know, it’s like the guy’s fell over in the mud puddle. Right? And then he sits there. Oh, I’m so dirty. I’m so filthy. You know, nobody should touch me. I’m just laying. Oh, what should I do? I should roll around. You know, it’s like this. No, you get up and go take a bath. You know, it’s like, you know, there’s this whole thing you got to go on. Because where is it? Because that’s where the taste is. It’s the mode of ignorance. So, you sit around in a circle and you get yourself really absorbed in the mode of ignorance. And then they think, wow, that was a great session.

But it had nothing to do with working with others. It was just that I want to be the center and all these other people are allowing me to be the center as long as I present it so that they can, you know, their voyeuristic element can gain some emotion from it for themselves. But there’s no actual interaction between the members of that assembly.

But without analyzing, you can’t see it. Because they’ll say, no, that’s not true, the motion. But the point is, the mind isn’t what analyzes, it’s the intelligence. So, unless there’s a combination of the two, there’s no relationship because activity has to be performed with intelligence. So, if there’s only pure emotion, that means there is no intelligence. There is no framework. So, how do you define it as a relationship? Because relationship, you’re taking the masculine principle of intelligence and the feminine principle of the mind and combining those on a common field. So, if that’s not happening, it’s not a relationship.

You know what I’m saying? But, because people emotionally are so dead, anything that will spark emotion they’ll consider, oh, this must be because emotion comes from interaction. But they don’t know that they’ve created this impersonal, non-interactive, static, emotional environment. And they somehow or another, it’s great compared to nothing. So, you can appreciate they have to have something. But, if they’re going to say that this is real and when you present the real thing and they’ll say this is not real, says, that’s demoniac. That’s less intelligence. That’s mudha. That’s mayaya pratyajyana.

Because it says right here what you should do.

Yes? Is there a spray for a joke? You can try. There’s a Jewish lady going, oh, I’m so thirsty. Oh, I’m so thirsty. Oh, I am so thirsty. One guy comes, a priest, and he takes some water and she takes the water and she finishes and goes, oh, I was so thirsty.

Yeah. Yeah, okay.

Like that, yeah.

It is a strong element in that culture, right? The element of remember. Remember what they did to you. Yes.

So, yes, good.

Okay, is that, does that make sense? In other words, it’s not that it’s not understood or taken seriously because the thing is unless you lament, you’re not taking it seriously. But the point is the intelligent man can see something as it is and do something with it. Who laments?

Yeah, shudras.

Right? So, now it’s a modern culture is that you have to emotionally be like a shudra, right? But in your action in that, you should be bourgeois. You should be, you know, business. It’s economics.

Right? So, all the economics, all the justice, all the morality, it’s all about combining these two.

Emotions in the mode of ignorance and make a profit.

You know, so it’s, that’s why the Gita analyzes these things so that one can make this distinction. Otherwise, if one can’t make the distinction, one will be distracted.

Right? And one doesn’t have to go far to find these distractions. Before, you had to walk out of the temple door out onto the street to see the distractions. Now, you know, by the contemporary mode and modern facilities, one does not have to go that far. Right? I’m not talking about Internet here. I’m talking about, you know, interacting with people.

Does that make sense? Because, in other words, it’s not that, it means you forgive yourself for making a mistake. It doesn’t mean the mistake hasn’t been made. It’s not that you don’t rectify. You say, oh, but if you, what about the mistake? But the point is, is the point to rectify the mistake, or like, you know, there’s a joke there, is to talk about how I made the mistake.

Yes? I think the problem comes up is that for some people they continually make the same mistake. And so the guilt gets very strong and then they feel even more guilty to go forward in bhakti because they feel, oh, this is pretentious. But, no, but the point is, is let us say, but if it’s pretentious, what’s real and what’s not real? What is substance and what is illusion?

So the mistake’s an illusion because you’re not seeing Krishna. And the devotional service, that’s substance, that’s seeing Krishna, that’s reality. So, in other words, this position means we’re actually giving credence to the material world as substance.

That’s the problem. People think morality has value. Outside of Krishna. So, one keeps making the mistake, that just means it’s a longer term habit. It’s something, you’re making a mistake, so it says, hey, you don’t do like this and then immediately it changes. It means it’s not very deep. And if it’s been going on for a longer time, that means it’s quite deep. One’s been doing this for lifetimes. Right? So, in other words, it’s like, Prabhupada gives the example, I think it was about Ravi Shankar, he was playing sitar for a thousand lifetimes. So that’s why he’s good. So, that means if we’re actually good at some nonsense, you know, that means we’ve been doing it for a long time. So, therefore, we’re trying to get rid of thousands of lifetimes, you know, of habit in one lifetime. But the focus, this is what Krishna’s pointing out, the focus is on the devotional aspect and then you use technique. For those whose focus is on the technique, that’s all right as long as it’s in line here, but it’s less than when the focus is on Krishna and then using technique. But here, it’s not even technique because thinking I can’t do something, then that automatically, that’s the identity. I can’t do. But the point is I’m servant of Krishna. Is the soul eternally servant of Krishna? Is it Brahman? If it is, it’s not actually identified with this, though we identify. So, by my mistake, I keep identifying. So, it’s just a matter of, okay, then I have to do it again. So, if it didn’t work that way, maybe there’s some other way. There’s something I’m not seeing. Why am I doing this? Why do I keep making this up? What is the attractive element about this that keeps distracting me? Because that’s Krishna. But we’re thinking it’s the thing. We think the thing is, but it’s not. It’s Krishna. But the illusion is we think it’s not. So, to say, oh, I can’t do devotional service because it’s pretentious. But what’s pretentious? Pretentious is that the living entity thinks he’s God and is separate from Krishna. Because if we don’t do devotional service, what’s left for us? Illusion. Staying in the material world, being God. That’s more pretentious, right? As Bhaktisiddhanta says, what is Bhakta’s point? There’s nothing more pretentious than the small thinking he’s great. You know? But that’s what it means. So, all this so-called truth, it’s actually, we can see, it’s not real. It’s actually demoniac. This modern concept of truth is actually demoniac. Because it’s not true. Because truth means it’s Krishna. It’s a fact. OK. But, you know, you say, this is a book. That’s a fact. But the point is, this book is about Krishna. I have another book. You know, you have Shakespeare or something. It’s not about Krishna. Someone who’s intelligent can find Krishna. But it’s not directly Krishna. So, unless you see that, it’s illusion. It’s not actually a book. Because a book’s about Krishna. Right? A relationship is about Krishna.

You know what I’m saying? So, that’s the whole point. Otherwise, it’s not real. So, it’s not truth. You can say, oh, but it’s fact. No, but it’s not real fact. You’re only seeing the external, the, what do you call it, the operative cause and the material cause. But if you can’t see the original cause and the formal cause, which they’re reflecting, you’re not seeing. You’re blind.

Right? That’s what, you know, Drew Meyers is saying. He says, I was blind.

I was thinking, you know, being, you know, lord of the universe, all this. He’s not talking small time stuff. He’s talking big time. He’s talking about a sovereignty greater than Brahma’s. He didn’t just say his father, you know, his grandfather, which is Manu, and his great -grandfather, which is Brahma. He wanted bigger than that. Right? You know, he’s five, so hey, okay. So, you know. But, he got it. But he says, I was blind.

You know, so it’s, this is the, the thing is that our philosophy cuts through all this and makes it very, very directly applicable to anyone in any situation that they can take up Krishna consciousness. Otherwise, then, you know, if you’ve done anything wrong, you can’t do devotional service. So, who hasn’t done something wrong? And this nonsense of, oh, that was before you joined. What does that mean? Joined. Since when is the soul not serving the Krishna? You know, so that means karma. I’ve done something. I joined. Therefore, it’s something. And then, you know, but, and then, if someone’s in, you know, it’s like he’s doing his service and he’s having problems, but he sticks around and tries to stay in the association of devotees. Oh, he’s condemned. But if he has a little problem and so he just leaves and goes out into maya, oh, he’s honest.

This is all just demoniac nonsense.

You know what I’m saying? Oh, because, oh, exactly. See, if someone’s out for, you know, running a brothel for ten years, they come back, you know, no problem. But someone else does something within the movement, oh, they’re eternally damned. It’s just like, what has this got to do with the soul? What has this got to do with our philosophy? This is not Vedanta. You know, Christianity, maybe. But Vedanta, nowhere close. Has nothing to do with what Gita is saying, what Prabhupada is saying, what the Acharyas are saying. Like that.

Would it be correct to say, or to think that before, when I think that if I do something I should be excluded, it’s connected to the dualities. Either I’m here or I’m nothing. Yes. And the Vedanta is even the graduation. Yes. The point is, is you gradually get. Otherwise, see, this is, this is the strength and the weakness of, you know, the, you know, the front lines or you could say the first world culture is because whatever they do everybody should do. So as long as that’s connected to Krishna, then they make the whole world Krishna conscious. But if that’s not their goal, then they’re just going to try to make everybody not Krishna conscious because they can’t, that’s, it’s not intelligent. Right? It’s not intelligent because they can’t distinguish. You have to be able to distinguish. What percentage, you know? You know, the water’s either boiling or it’s not. Okay. Great. But the point is, is I have water just out of the tap. Can you stick your finger in it? Yeah. Now, what if it’s been on the fire for five minutes? It’s not boiling.

You know what I’m saying? So if you can’t distinguish, you will get burnt and they are getting burnt.

Anybody who can’t make this distinguish is getting burnt.

You have to be able to see at what level it is. That’s mature. That’s intelligent.

Right? Then it works.

You know? So, the drive that it should be good and do everything right, that’s fine. There’s no fault in that. But you have to know what actual is real good and real truth.

But that one’s looking for that, that’s good. That’s better than someone who’s not. That’s better than the mudha. He doesn’t care. But, the point is, if it’s not connected to Krishna, then it still has no value. Indra is a pious guy. But, still the position is useless. But, 100 ashramedhi, if you know how many brahmins he fed, how much he gave in charity, I mean, he’s done a lot. But still, useless.

That’s the difficulty.

So, the point is, is that the mode of goodness means what’s happening right now. Okay, you use your intelligence. Okay, I’ve done this wrong. And I keep doing this wrong. And, I’m in this situation. So, is there a connection between? Because, a situation gives rise to activities and results. So, do I need to adjust the situation? Do I need to, you know, adjust who I am in this situation? Like, what is it that’s going wrong here? Analyze it. And then you figure this out.

Does that make sense?

You had something? No, you had. Okay.

I mean, you try to give association, but the point is, everything’s based on desire. So, what Krishna’s trying to point out here is, you desire this, you can get it. You don’t desire it, you’ll never get it. Right? So, living entity is interested, like we were saying, the last chapter is that by being pious, the advantage of being pious is that it’s purifying. And in that purified state, there’s a little bit more knowledge and a little bit more detachment. So, one may be open to devotional service. You know, so one gets that association, one takes it, then that’s the advantage. If one gets the association and rejects it, that’s most unfortunate. So, the point is, it’s still the individual has to desire, it has to come from there. You know what I’m saying? So, he has to want to move forward, because there’s a taste and feeling, it gives a very strong identity. I’m fallen, I’m useless, I’m disgusting. It’s a very clear identity. I can do nothing, I’m unsuccessful. They feel secure, because to start out on something where I haven’t been successful in the past, that’s the unknown. So, in other words, you want to get something, you have to take a risk. Right? Point is, let’s say a businessman. What makes the difference between a businessman and a guy who has a job? What’s the main difference? They both have money. The risk. The man who has a job is unwilling to take a risk in money. He wants to work every day and for that work get paid this much. But his businessman, he could work that much, get ten times what the other guy gets, or he could lose ten times. He’s willing to take the risk. That’s why he gets ten times. Right? In the political field, you know, that’s their risk. They could have the position or lose it. Right? Does that make sense? You know, in teaching, someone will listen, maybe they won’t.

You know what I’m saying? Like that. You know, he’s giving the knowledge, you know, he gets killed by that knowledge. That’s the risk.

Does that make sense? So, the point is, he’s not willing to take a risk. It’s very comfortable. He’s in the hospital. He’s the center of attention. You know, he has a very clear identity and clear activities.

But devotional service is something else.

You know what I’m saying? Because otherwise, let’s say, you know, he couldn’t ride a bicycle. Would he end up in the hospital because he failed? He kept falling off, you know, gets caught in the gutter, bumped into the car, you know.

You know what I’m saying? So, this is the thing, is that one has to know that it’s the nature of the soul. If you think, it means if you understand the soul is the eternal servant of Krishna, he’s Brahman, he has nothing to do with this world. Then you can understand that the actual Adhyatma need is devotional service.

Otherwise, he’s identifying that I’m not Brahman, I’m the Adhibhuta. And so the Adhyatma is my need to interact with the Adhibhuta.

And so, they’ve missed the point. But the Adhyatma is based on his Brahman. So therefore, Brahman is the eternal servant of Krishna.

Does that make sense? It’s just a matter of understanding, you know, the, you know, analyzing the position. Because that’s why some manda-avideh and prayojana, you’re talking relationship. You know, it’s just, oh, you know, don’t be attached, this, that. But why not be attached? The soul is attached.

The problem is, why be attached? So all that endeavor of attachment, whether attachment is to Krishna or to Maya, it’s the same endeavor.

No? You know, it’s just like what if you had an example would be, hmm? Yeah, cooking potato. Very good. Yeah. It’s going to be the same. Whether you cook for Krishna or not, it’s the same. I was thinking of his guru was Chintamani.

Dilrubh Mangal. Yeah, Dilrubh Mangal. So now the trouble he went through to meet the prostitute, she was just watching this and going, wow, if he applied that to God, you know, he’d be back to God, he’d be a saint. You know? And so she’s just thinking, that’s a waste, you know, on me. Because, you know, you give money, I reciprocate. You give no money, I don’t reciprocate. So I’m not worth that much endeavor. You know what I’m saying? You know, money, yes, but that endeavor, no. You know, so he’s saying, you know, you should use this for something higher.

You know what I’m saying? So the endeavor is the same. So to make himself completely embroiled in the mode of ignorance, it takes the same amount of endeavor to get yourself out.

You know what I’m saying? So it’s just a matter of choice, what you want. Do you want to get out? Then you try. Take up that association. Can’t do it yourself? No one says you will, but that’s why association is there. So you have to find association that is association.

Right?

Yeah? These real friends.

Is that okay? Is there ever a point when you look at the mode of ignorance, it seems, there’s so little free will and ignorance that a person could end up that way. And at one time, they tell Prabhupada, this devotee can’t follow the principles and Prabhupada said, that means he’s strongly under the control of ignorance. So how do we deal in a situation where it appears there’s very little free will now, very little choice. But still, that little bit of choice is enough to… That’s what I’m saying is that that little bit of choice of Krishna, Krishna’s substance and that ocean of ignorance is still, it’s still illusion. But we give the…

the validity to it. Like that. That’s the whole thing. We give that validity.

So that’s all. So it’s just a matter of redefining what you say is valid.

I mean, it’s easy, of course, to sit here and talk about all this stuff. But the point is is that it’s actually that easy. But the problem is is convincing the mind that it’s that easy. That’s the real problem. Because the mind is attached to ignorance. But it’s actually as easy as that. That’s why it’s said. A moment, all it requires is a moment to be Krishna conscious.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Well, that’s how illusion works. It’s just one goes into the next. But the point is is that it does the same thing in the other way. It means you perform an action and you’ll get a result for that action. But at the same time it will also create the desire to do that again. So, you know, if you do something wrong then the desire to do that wrong again will be there. But if you do something right the desire to do that right will be there. So if you do something for Krishna the desire to do that again will be there. So that’s why you keep cultivating that whenever you can. So then, you know, I’d say the desire to do right, you know, has more points than the desire to do wrong. So it’s just… And that’s why association is important because you’re inspired by them. Because action comes from inspiration. So if you’re in superior association you’re inspired to make that endeavor. You have faith I can do this. Like that. But that’s the chain that it goes. But you contemplate the objects of the senses then you’ll get attached. You contemplate Krishna you’ll get attached. It’s the same… It’s the same thing. It’s just being used in the negative. You know, so attachment to family this, that. But it’s the same thing attachment to Krishna.

Attachment is attachment. The problem is not attachment. The problem is where the attachment is directed. Identity is not the problem. Desire is not the problem. Activity, results. None of these are the problem. The problem is they’re not directed at Krishna. So that’s why we analyze it so you can see the difference. Otherwise the nature is that… The feminine nature is just take religion. You have good work, good results. Bad work, bad results. But there’s no distinction between that actually one, they’re two different things at the same time they’re simultaneously one.

Does that make sense? So we have to analyze. Otherwise the set thing is that good work is good. You know, I serve Krishna and I feed the poor and it’s all good. But there’s still a distinction between good feeding the poor and good serving Krishna.

Like that. So one has to start to make these these distinctions.

Then it can go because the point is even if it’s there why does that come up? How to put someone in a different situation? Like that. Because the point is is in what position will one be able to engage the body, mind and words? The problem with this modern thing why it’s so the deviantness of it is so great is that one is removed from the position that one can actually make advancement in. Because the truth is considered more important you know than actual service to Krishna. Let’s say someone’s a manager. So in management they’re fully absorbed trying to think how to get everything done. They’re physically engaged. They’ll do more as a manager if they do something else then they’ll take a nap. You know, they want to take a nap but they got work to do. You know, they’re always talking about it. They’re always this and that. They’re always absorbed. And so that’s where they’re going to do. Now the problem they get off means they’re not doing that. So the problem is okay, then the president he gets involved with some lady something like this but that’s not managing a temple. All right, so that’s his nature is to manage. This other thing is an effect of his own character in ashram. All right. So then the thing is oh, he can’t be president. But now if he’s committed to being with lady okay, then that’s a thing. But if he’s not then being managing is the only thing that will take him out of that hole. But now modern thing oh, you can’t do this you can’t do that you can’t do anything that will actually purify you. You have to sit around and lament and that will purify you. You know what I’m saying? This is just demoniac. When they say oh, it’s practical or this or that or have so many mundane excuses but they’re all at the end of the day purely mundane. There may be considerations. Yes. Well, what about the example that says yeah, what about the example that if you ever do anything wrong you will not be forgiven? Who wants to take out Christian consciousness? Go ahead. You take out Christian consciousness it’s great you can go back to Godhead solve all the problems that you made. One mistake man, you’re done. You know, that’s it. Finished. Like that.

So so then who wants to do? Right? Before you know people you know people were killing each other to be temple president. Now we have so many empty temples that no one wants to touch. Why? Because if you do anything wrong hey, you’re finished. So this is the example that’s being set not oh, what about the common they don’t even know who the common man is. Right? You have to come out of the room where the meeting is to meet the common man.

You know what I’m saying? They don’t know. They don’t know what is common they don’t know what people are they don’t know what relationships are no idea.

And it just sounds great but nothing’s been happening for years.

And the only time something happens is if somebody does what it says to do here. And if you use these modern techniques nothing happens. They think something’s happened because they’re attached to the modern techniques. So it looks like well, it will it will give fruit but it hasn’t. It’s been 15 years now. Nothing.

It’s like going you know the story the prophet tells you know the Himalayas was going to give birth and so everybody went you know and everybody’s there and then a bunch of rats came out. So this is the whole point.

That’s it. Maharaj in his question one thing which I find difficult for a person who is in that deep ignorance or that moment the other person who has given association must leave room for his fault. Yeah, but that’s the point of forgiving is you know what is there and you know emotionally they’re going to go through this. So we’re not saying that means it’s like this. This is the thing. You give yourself but you may have difficulty but the other person is giving you that space. If he gives you the space then you feel there’s space to move into. Right? You can only unless there’s means these Adhara Shakti is the all-accommodating potency. If there’s no accommodation like you know if there’s not a room you won’t think about going into it. If it’s packed you’re not going to even you know you’re not going to try. So you can’t accommodate but others can’t so then you’ll try to come out. You know. But now if you can’t accommodate and everybody else is saying yeah you know then you know it’s just like it means you had the Muslims came and they sprinkled water on some Hindus and said now you’re all Muslims. Right? And then the people you know because they’re simple they don’t know they went to the Brahmins and said hey they sprinkled this water and said they’re Muslims. Is that true? And so instead of saying no go take a bath you know like don’t worry about it. They said oh yeah no now now you know so what do we do? Well you got to drink boiling ghee and then next life you’ll be born Hindu again. And so who’s going to be Hindu? They’re all Muslims. There’s 200 million because of that. That only Prabhupada says. All they had to do is you know who cares?

You know? Does that make sense? You know I come and take some water sprinkling on you now you know you’re a goth. Like that you know. What? What are you talking about? You know like that. Okay. Well you’re an emo. You know? What is it? You know it’s like that you know.

You know does it work? It doesn’t it’s like you know who cares?

Can you measure hillbilly? Hillbilly? I guess it was. Get out of here hillbilly.

You know so it doesn’t doesn’t matter but the thing is they took it seriously therefore then the thing so that’s the thing so it doesn’t run oh yeah that’s so bad because they want to talk about something they want something to gossip about this is the meaning. Bhaktivinoda of course says a devotee has a fault and you sit around talking about it that’s gossip. You’re going to say oh no but we’re discussing no you’re not. If you’re discussing a way that they’ll be benefited the person you’re talking to will be benefited then that’s something to do. But if you’re just talking that’s just gossip.

So you know that’s fault-finding that’s cookie -knotting.

You know so that’s the that’s the difficulty. So how to to tell a devotee about another devotee’s fault in such a way that that he will not What’s the purpose of telling? So that they can avoid But that means then they’re they’re in a position to perform the same mistake. If they’re in the mistake then you say well if you do like this this will happen and if they understand it great and if you say but it happened to him he did that it happened to him so you want to make the same mistake? But it has to be relevant otherwise if it’s not relevant then it’s just you know something to talk about you know it’s like a boring Hey you know this one did that oh wow then you know then you then you know the guhyamaketi preacher tea is happening right now all you need is some bhunte bhojayate and it’s all happening it’s all going on You understand?

Like that Okay Okay Is that okay? Huh? Okay So the independence it just means when you if you allow yourself to follow the ignorance you’re going to have to struggle a little Yeah you’re just going to have to struggle but if you understand it’s not then you can because Krishna is there to help the point is if you take one step Krishna will take ten but you still have to take one because he’s already said as you surrender he reciprocates so that’s the way he works the devotee can come in you know crash into your life and you know do something else but then you have to have a relationship so that means you have to have actual relationships not this modern concept of relationship because that’s there is no relationship because you’re great friends but if something goes wrong hey, nobody knows I don’t know like that no, but you live with them and say live with them strange the strangest things happen you know, so that’s the problem is that it’s not there’s no so then how one will have that that surrender you know Yes Yes you have to see what it is it can be a doubt it can be a misgiving generally anything that is long-lasting is a misgiving right or an attachment you know but there’s some way is that a doubt is just it’s not logically not logically makes sense you explain it logically then it’s gone misgiving is it’s gone into the mind so you explain it logically but that doesn’t deal with the emotions that are felt about it because emotions don’t really care about intelligence right so that’s why you have to have this this mix between the two so in other words you analyze the field right then you’re going to be inspired so all this is is intelligence but to actually act means the intelligence has to cross over to attachment and when attachment’s there then you’re going to act so while you’re acting the intelligence isn’t working but you still have to use the intelligence to perform the activity right so there’s a difference there so attachment means you’re attached it’s not an intellectual consideration anymore it’s simply an emotional consideration right so does that make sense that’s why when the men analyze so much the problem that the wife is having in the emotions to the wife it’s like does this guy care for me or not because he’s using intelligence instead of me so there’s no attachment because you’re using intelligence right the point is is you deal with the emotion and when that balances then the intelligence will come back up then you discuss does that make sense so it’s just how the the system where is this that what I’ve explained there is sankhya, shantra, jhumna, dhruva and vasudeva it’s our philosophy right so the point is is that that’s why when you analyze the field the field should be according to what’s favorable to Krishna consciousness otherwise if we give some modern definitions then that means when when you get the desire you’re inspired in that and develop the attachment the attachment won’t be to Krishna because the field is not Krishna does that make sense so that’s why means being acutely aware of what shortcomings is alright but that doesn’t mean that it should get in the way of acting if they’re putting more strength on the material than the spiritual so if a devotee say for 30 years has been practicing Krishna consciousness and the the najas and the shortcomings are still very strong could they feel that that that has more strength than the devotional philosophy it means if someone’s judging and then saying that they’ve fallen and so they’re fallen oh within themselves then it’s just a matter of yeah because the point is devotional service is the natural condition of the soul these other things that’s not natural but we have the habit of we’re so practiced at it you know what I’m saying because Prabhupada mentions that those who take up Krishna consciousness means they’ve already been in every species of life so they’ve tried everything and now after trying everything then it’s kind of like now what are you going to do you know so then in that state one is open for the option of devotional service so one is thinking that the material has some substance and all that no it’s because of our illusion and bad practice we still have you know some attachments in some area but the point is devotional service is more powerful therefore it can be overcome why do you think there’s such extreme stories given in the Shastras and our situation is never more than what’s in the Shastras you know what I’m saying in 9th Canto you have this king he keeps going back and forth one month a man one month a woman and this and that I mean you don’t get more than that you know as they say you know so you know here we’re not talking cross dressing we’re talking he’s actually a woman and then the next month he’s actually a man you know so so you know these things are very extreme you know Ajamila is very extreme he’s 88 years old when his son is born so that means this happened after he’s 88 because Narayan is big enough to you know kind of call and recognize the voice so you know stuff like that and you know so it must be some interaction so he must be able to come so he must be at least able to move around so he must be at least two so he’s 90 years old like that and his position let’s say okay this and that he was a pukka brahman you know he had you know properly following everything he had a young wife who was properly doing everything he had his dependent mother and father he left all that for a prostitute right so is that bad or is that bad right so you can’t say how many devotees can say they’re in that position right go ahead you know knock me out you know if they weren’t born in a gorsera so had brahman family and practicing and that then forget it you know if they were mlecchas and yamanas and they’re not even close to the degree you know of distance between the two situations and what happens immediately after this immediately when he moves into the temple and gets serious and you see him you can see through the verses where it just mentioned that he went through this and he moved up to nishtha then ruchi then asakti then you can see it in the verses they’re describing how he developed as long as you have faith in Jesus if you don’t then forget it it comes from that because culturally the modern culture is a protestant culture protestant culture is based on there is no authority and whatever you feel that is right because that was one of the main things is that the authority of the church becomes so ritualistic and so institutionalized that the reformers then they that was what they were saying so before it was unless you went into a church with a priest you couldn’t pray so this thing no we can pray anywhere so they’re correct but then the point is you remove the religious aspect that boils down to the point is I can do whatever I want whenever I want and I define it I define right and wrong you know there is no authority in the protestant there are no saints right in all other religions there are saints there are no saints in the protestant they don’t accept authority or saints sound familiar like that so what culture is that it’s not Vedic it’s not Vaishnav right it’s not even it’s not Krishna it’s not Judaic it’s not Buddhist it’s no it’s modern protestant so this modern economics the bourgeois is based on that that’s what allows it to come up otherwise everybody had a position and that’s the way it was as soon as you get rid of that anybody can come up so the bourgeois comes up you got money it works you know I mean we don’t learn history like this because they’re not allowed to teach it you know like that it has to be purely secular but nobody does anything unless there is some philosophy or religion behind it does that make sense so the difficulty comes is it’s you know we’ll be Vaishnav by philosophy but we’re protestant by culture probably said that you know we’re Vedic by culture right we’re Vaishnav by philosophy you know our culture is Varanasi but it’s authority you know so that doesn’t jive with the modern culture does that make sense so we have to understand it’s the souls beyond this so the soul can do this you can do it you’re Vermont you can do this you know so like that and the result that you’ve been gifted in the protestant religion that you got some money some benefit by yeah well you’ve done good work you get good results you know and then there’s the guys that are successful but it’s a delicate balance cause you know karma is the basis you’re talking about ultimately a Zoroastrianism based religions and so they’ve already got everything backwards you know they say there’s only one god but then you know who runs the material world can’t be god he’s good this place is bad so that means there’s another controller so it’s this philosophically very very weak you know who decides I say you know why is that bad you know like she’s saying ok this devotee he did something bad why is it bad you go around you ask the devotees well why do you think it’s bad oh it’s wrong you know oh why you know it’s not good why is it not good well everybody knows where’s the basis it’s simply feeling and you’re not going to get any more than that like that they can’t even relate it no but at least in the modern world which is based on these world religions at least those religions say you shouldn’t do this and that’s how it’s come down filtered down into the culture that’s practiced today it’s based on those previous religious cultures but they can’t even say that it’s just the modern thing because you want to separate yourself from authority and religion because if you said religion defines this is the way it is if I separate for this is whatever I feel is the way it is so I decide what’s right and what’s wrong and that’s what’s going on when someone does something wrong and others judge what are they judging on Shastra? right? no they’ll pull some extreme from the Shastra oh if he did this then he should be killed yeah but what about the other ten shlokas that deal with other aspects what about his varna what about his ashram what about the situation that’s what Manu describes because the king has to make all decisions so he has to know everything about it no they’ll only pull which one works for them like that so like this it’s not actually understanding but it’s not based on that it’s wrong and the Shastra also says but that’s the bourgeois culture I’m going to do whatever I want but if the Shastra says that’s good then hey that’s double profit but even if the Shastra doesn’t say I’m still going to do it but if you go back where it wasn’t the bourgeois it was the Kshatriyas or the Brahmins then if the scriptures don’t say it they don’t do it nobody does it you know so it’s a matter of it’s not authorized it’s not done you know what I’m saying you know what I’m saying that’s what he said let it be written, let it be done so what’s authority that’s what’s done right but then you know that’s the blessings of the Ionians they broke down this authority structure in the western western environment Ionians are Greeks they had a philosophy of this relativeness and all this and how do you say this is absolute and all this and you can’t say that was the whole fight that’s why Socrates died he was an absolutist while everybody else was a relativist but Socrates was the base of modern science because they saw well hey if you talk his philosophy you’re dead you adjust it you know you’re a scholar you know so like that but I also find that when Balambara breaks there’s a great oppression because then if the Brahmin like this Hindu Brahmin yeah it’s mentioned in the Shastra but not for that you know it’s like how does water change your religion you’re purified by it sanctified water you’re purified why does that make you change your religion you know what I’m saying so the point is the soul is becoming purified like that religion is a specific way of practice you know a particular manifestation so that’s why we’re interested in Sanatana Dharma because that’s an eternal activities these others are temporary applications of the religious process is that yes just on the thing with Socrates so the story of the caves was originally from Socrates written by Plato he may have documented it but it’s Socrates because his point is what you see here is an illusion but there is a reality he’s saying you’re in the cave and you see shadows and you see all these things and you think that’s real but then somebody who actually knows comes and takes you outside the cave and you see the real things. He doesn’t say that, you know, and then it’s all Brahman, you know, like that. No, that’s what these others will say. The Sakartese was, but it was it was too far out for… So that actually defines a fundamental breaking point in Western philosophy? Yeah, basically. Because then it was the sophists, you know, and that means the Vox Populi, that’s what. If the people are into it, then that’s truth. Yeah. That’s the point, is that if you say, because that would be the final thing, that we were saying before, is that, well, you know, why are you doing it? Well, everybody knows, because it’s Vox Populi. It means, of course, you know, the people are doing it, so therefore it’s popular. And therefore it’s right. But it, yeah, but it has nothing to do with reality. You know, as I said, a thousand fools say that wrong is a right doesn’t make it right. Yes? If you apply this to Vaishnavism, sometimes I think that I see devotees like certain things, and they say, if I please the devotees, I make advancement, then they question me, their taste may be influenced by the past, by the laws of passion and ignorance. So I’m doing something, and everybody says, oh, this is very good, and we’re very happy. Does that automatically mean that what I did was proper, I’m making advancement, or is there that possibility? Is it connected to Krishna? See, the bottom line in all this, you know, because we’re getting into all varieties of detail, is if something’s connected to Krishna, it’s perfect. If it’s not connected to Krishna, it’s not, it’s illusion. So the point is, is if they appreciate a particular way of doing something, and it’s actually connected to Krishna, so therefore they will make advancement, you make advancement. You know, let’s say, instead of rice and dal, they’d rather eat pasta. But the point is, is you’re offering to Krishna, you’re trying to cook it to please Krishna and everything like that, and it’ll please the Vaishnav, so they advance. But if something’s actually opposed to the scriptures, you can’t give away that you’re connecting it to Krishna. They’re not going to connect it to Krishna, then that’s basically useless.

Does that make sense? But if the connection’s actually there, it means mechanically there, not just spoken. Oh, it’s all for Krishna. Well, how? Oh, it just is. Okay, great. Nice. But if you say it’s for Krishna, you should be able to explain it. Otherwise, how do you know it’s for Krishna?

How do you know the diesel bomb didn’t get in there?

Is that okay?

Something is left. What is it? See, because you have a specific example, but we’re asking a general question. It’s kind of like you have two people in maya that somehow are connecting their sense gratification to Krishna. But the thing is, is their sense gratification actually connected or not? That’s the point. Do they see Krishna in it? Do they see how it’s working because of Krishna? Well, they’re using Krishna. They’re using Krishna, but that’s a rationale. That’s not connected to Krishna. So then doing something in that environment, then that’s useless. Because it’s not connected to Krishna. But if it is connected to Krishna, then, you know, you know what I’m saying? The guy’s got a Ferrari, you know, so he drives to the temple. Okay, so that’s connected on that part. But it’s, you know, there’s a large element of sakham karma in this. But the thing is, it is connected to Krishna. You know, so that aspect cultivating Krishna, so then you get him a little something, you know, about Krishna and put it on his dashboard, you know. So that, you know, he likes it because it makes his car nice and everything, but it is connected and he’s using it to go to Krishna, you know. So whenever you… It must be stylish, right? Yeah, it must be stylish also. It’s a Ferrari. Come on. You know, so make sure it’s red. He put it on a little plaque and said, you couldn’t have distributed it at 150 ,000 Bhagavad Gita’s if you didn’t buy this car. Could have. Or you could tell him, you know, drive this down, you know, down to, you know, the high saint. Find the right place in, you know, L .A. to drive it to. And, you know, open the draft and pull out the books, you know. People might buy it, you know. Say, wow, this guy’s got this. He must know what he’s talking about. You know, in that way, it’s engaged. You know what I’m saying? So the point is, it’s not ideal, but it is engaged. That’s the point. So then you say others, oh, but it’s a waste of money, this and that. Point is, it’s connection is more important than what’s wrong. And if they continue that, then with time, then he’ll come to the point of being the monk that sold his Ferrari.

You know what I’m saying? But the point is, unless they… But the thing is, is you first connect it. Because otherwise, you have to renounce, but what’s the connection? What will be actually connected by doing it? I give it up, but how is that connected to Krishna? So unless that renunciation’s connected, it has no meaning. You know, and then we’re putting on to, oh, it’s a waste of money. Maybe for us, from our background, but for some other people, that’s nothing. You know, buying your own Learjet, maybe that’s a waste of money. You know, or your own, you know, shipping company, just because you want free rides to the Bahamas. So that may be a waste, because it’s cheaper to buy a ticket. You know? So you have to see, you know, the context of it. You know, so that’s where I’m saying is that we’ll bring in these kind of, these, our own, you know, ethics on it. But, you know, which is all right to start from. Because, like you’re saying, anything has a value. That something’s valued to people in whatever way it is. The value itself is actually real. But the medium through which they express it may be more close to actual truth or not. Like that. You know, so the, one has to be able to analyze what’s there and then take from that. So that’s what I’m saying. He’s got that, then how can that be engaged? You know? Like that. And so then, does that make some sense? So that’s the subtlety that’s being given. Is that wherever they are, start there. They don’t have to change anything. They simply have to change the consciousness on everything they’re dealing with. Because what makes it, you know, why does the guy have the fancy car? What’s the reason? You know, it’s like, you know, different people may have different reasons. But what if it’s the social status? But that point of that element of status, that’s Krishna. Krishna’s the ultimate status. He’s the cause of status. You know, what’s right, what’s wrong, what’s higher, what’s lower. He creates the 14 planetary systems. You know, he does all that. You know, if it’s, you know, if it’s at, how do you say, it’s performance, but then that means it’s efficiency. But Krishna’s the most efficient. He is efficiency. You know, and so this does it, you know. So all these different things, you have to see what it is. That’s the, that’s starting, you start at the Brahman level. And then that, you can connect it. And then from that, then there’s the matter of seeing that. Then it’s a matter of, then you go to the next, the Paramatma level. It’s engagement. But it’s still because of him. Then you ultimately get it to Bhagavan, where it’s about Krishna. So how is this pleasing to Krishna? If it is, then he has it. If it’s not, he gets rid of it. Does that make sense?

Is that okay? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because the final form we’re attached to is still in matter. It’s still Adi-Bhuta. But the point is, Adi-Bhuta only moves because of Adi-Daiva.

Right? And Adi-Daiva is creating all the situations so that you’ll actually come to the point of appreciating Adi-Yajna. You know, Supreme Lord. You know, so that’s the point. First you see what’s the quality of it. Because it’s dead matter. It’s a tin can. Right? But we say it’s so valuable. Right? But the point is that what it is in that, what we’re paying for is that element of Krishna that it comes closer to obtaining.

But we’re still only seeing the Adi-Bhuta. We’re seeing the material manifestation. Right? So the material cause. You know, they’ve taken some materials and by, through transformation, then it’s come to what it is. Right? So somebody’s worked and somebody’s got it. Right? You make the endeavor. You pay the money. You get. But the point is, is those are still based on the principles of the original cause and the formal cause that we’re not seeing. Therefore it’s illusion. If you see it’s the real cause, then it’s there. Then it’s okay. It’s nice. But it’s still nothing special. You know? You know, probably. You bring it with Rolls-Royce, it’s the best and all that what you have to offer. But the problem is, it’s still a tin can. You know? It’s still nothing. He said, you know, if it was made out of solid gold it still wouldn’t be good enough. But, you know, it’s still whatever. It’s a start. You know? Like that. But the point is, is we put the value on it. So that’s the sarkam element.

Then Krishna puts, but there’s an original value on it. So if it doesn’t enhance the relationship with Krishna, for Krishna there’s no value. If it enhances the relationship, then it’s valuable.

Right? So, does that make sense? And also devotees, and we see the ideal situation for a devotee to be in that simple life. And we see the form of that life. And we don’t see the principle who’s bringing in this monk who renounced his family to become a monk. We don’t see the… That’s something which I’ve seen a lot. In your life, I can see the principles working. So I want… Yeah. …value on it and become the one who saw this value. Because you see, the principle… If I just saw that the simple element of the devotee is in the wear and everything… Just as a side element, just as if we’re talking economics, just to really mess with people’s heads on the mundane platform. Is… Raising a child costs more than a Ferrari. So actually, a Ferrari would be a lesser investment to engage one’s material desires.

Like that. Lesser than that a Ducati motorcycle. You know, like this. You can bring it down. But… So the point is that if there’s an attachment, one doesn’t mind spending any amount of money. Or any… So the point is in Krishna, it doesn’t matter what it is, if it’s connected to Him, it’s a value. So it can be of any, you know, monetary value. But its use is its connection. You know, so Prabhupada says, you have a finger, you’ll spend millions of dollars to keep the finger on your hand. But once it’s lost, you won’t spend anything on it. It’s useless. So, if it’s connected to Krishna, it’s a value. And if it’s not connected to Krishna, it’s useless. But that connection is actual, has to be real. That’s what the Gita is defining. What actually is connected, what is not. Because you can’t fool Krishna. That’s the thing. We can’t fool Him. You know, so, we have, we analyze and see what is connected, what’s not. You know, so like we’re saying before, even when we’re talking about political correctness, that they want to do something in a way that will be accepted by people so they’ll be favorable towards, you know, Krishna consciousness. That’s good. So their actual foundation of accepting what their value in political correctness is correct.

Like that. But, the actual form of it and the application of it, it’s so far off track, it has nothing to do with anything.

You know what I’m saying? So, they’re not actually able to correct. Prabhupada was politically correct. And his preaching, that’s why his preaching was so good. He knew exactly what to say to whom. But, he would never not say our philosophy.

Right? He would not. You know, he’s in that Mr. Misra’s ashram. He taught Krishna consciousness. But he would do it in such a way that, you know, Misra, you know, he didn’t really like it. He’s a Mayavadi, but, you know, he would, he would, you know, deal nicely. And as soon as Prabhupada started talking philosophy, oh, let’s have a kirtan, you know, so like that. So, but in any case, Prabhupada would have defined what would work in the situation. So he talked to everyone exactly.

You know. You know, even that, what was that kid, Sivananda or something, you know, he wanted to, he wanted, what was it? He wanted a dollar or wanted five dollars to buy some gasoline to light himself on fire. Right? And Prabhupada said he was crazy. You know, so we’ll think, yeah, he’s crazy. He wanted to light himself on fire, this, that. No, Prabhupada said he’s crazy. He says, you know, it was twenty-five cents a gallon. Why does he need five dollars? That means he’s nuts, you know, because if he was intelligent he would know, I need twenty-five cents. You know. So, you know, so, so there, so even the action of doing that, okay, he’s had something wrong, he feels like killing himself and this and that, but he’s nuts, so how are you going to deal with this? So you have to deal with it as he’s nuts. You know, if he says, you know, I want twenty-five cents. Why? I want to buy a gallon of gasoline. Why? Because I want to kill myself. You know, so then it’s like, okay, well what’s wrong? You know, then you get into it, then you can use your intelligence. But in this case you couldn’t, so therefore Prabhupada called his mommy and sent him home.

You know, because, you know, you need just a little bit of emotional support here. So it wasn’t a matter of logic.

You know what I’m saying? So, like that, it’s a matter of seeing what actually is working. You know, because otherwise, oh, you can’t do that, this and that, it’s like that, you know, you know, it’s not that, it’s a matter of, you know, something happens, you feel bad, and then, okay, you feel like killing yourself. Not ideal, but you know, it happens. So what actually made you feel like that? But people start dealing with, oh, he wants to kill himself, he’s unstable, we’ve got to do this, we’ve got to do this. What happened to the part about, you know, what was the cause of it? And then take that original thing and connect that to Krishna. You don’t connect the petrol thing to Krishna. You connect why it is he wants to kill himself to Krishna. Because that’s the root. But we’ll get into all these side things.

Does that make sense? Maharaj, you mentioned how Prabhupada was politically correct. And by your lectures we can notice that you’re also politically correct, in the sense of saying what we need to hear. What advice would you give us?

Yeah, yeah, that’s better, otherwise we should never do it. Okay, shall I help? Om Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • We study different aspects of karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga etc, to easier understand bhakti in the conditioned state.
  • If emphasis is on Kṛṣṇa, mixed devotional service is not problem, because it will be progressive.
  • Brahman level is existing in a non-interactive state of appreciating Kṛṣṇa’s qualities. Brahman is effulgence of Kṛṣṇa’s qualities, it contains ultimate cause and formal cause.
  • 11:00 If one is celibate one can very clearly see and appreciate man-woman interaction for what it actually is.
  • Devotee may have different engagements and distractions from the past, but if his focus is on Kṛṣṇa, he will attain pure devotion. If focus in the mind is right, various faults and side things will not become an impediment.
  • Pure devotional service starts from madhyama, from niṣṭhā. Kaniṣṭha may or may not be a pure devotee, but madhyama is.
  • 25:45 Brāhmana should not berate himself for something that has gone wrong, because that is the mode of ignorance. Constantly repenting is the mode of ignorance. Feeling fallen should just be stating our position, and then moving on. We should see the fault, but we should not be absorbed in the fault. Modern thinking is stemming from ignorance. One should be able to forgive oneself and then try again.
  • Simply identifying the elements of the field and absorbing oneself in it is not progressive, because it is only Saṅkarṣaṇa aspect, there is no Pradyumna. Such an approach (modern political correctness) is simply egoistic, it does not include anyone else.
  • Those who want to absorb themselves in the past have difficulty forgiving others.
  • Pure emotion is not a relationship, relationship must involve mind and intelligence, masculine and feminine principles interacting in a field.
  • Modern “culture” is about being a śūdra by emotions (in the mode of ignorance).
  • 39:30 If devotees keep doing the same mistake again and again and feel guilty to go forward in bhakti…
  • Being in ignorance is a strong identity
  • Getting liberated is very easy, but mind is attached to ignorance.
  • Superior association gives inspiration to move out of ignorance.
  • 75:00 Protestants do not accept authority and saints.

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