In verse one, Kṛṣṇa again warns that one should not give up work prematurely. Real renunciation means to renounce the fruit of work and the desire for sense enjoyment. While still working dutifully, one may give up work only after sufficient purification through nice karma because one is comfortable in a particular environment, doing particular work, getting particular results. So the problem actually is not the work. The problem is the results that you get from the work. So when those results come, if you keep them for yourself, then that becomes part of your field of activities. You simply increase your material entanglement. Now if the results then are for Kṛṣṇa, then that means your environment that you’re in becomes increased in the way of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You surround yourself more and more with facilities and opportunities for service to Kṛṣṇa. This is the point. So the difficulty is not the work. The difficulty is the result. So to say, oh, these dirty karmīs, they’re doing all this nonsense work. The work’s not the problem. It’s the result that’s the problem because the work’s the same as anyone else. You know, we… Yes? But isn’t there a lot of work that a karmī would do that a devotee wouldn’t do? That may be there, but the point is, is that, you know, he’s talking to Arjuna as a devotee. So he’s saying, one should not prematurely give up work. So what does that mean? You know, being the work that a devotee would do. But the point is, is any work a devotee would do, karmīs would also be doing. Right? Just the mentality’s different, so therefore… And that mentality difference means the result.
You understand? That’s what it means. Because otherwise we think, oh, everything’s different. Right? But where does this come from? Where does this concept come from? In personalism. In personalism. Because impersonalism means that… Spiritual means it’s the opposite of whatever’s there. Right? Does that make sense? So, you know, the karmīs, you know, they meet each other and they have all this superficial, hi, how are you, and this and that. So as devotees, we’re spiritual, we don’t do that. Right? So what does that mean? You know, devotees are uncultured.
You know, that’s the result. Because we think it’s the activity that’s a problem.
Right? In other words, they’re just inquiring just, you know, for some pleasantness or this or that, whatever it may be. But the point is, is it’s the result that’s the problem, not the activity.
Right? Now, as a devotee in a purified state, you may have a… may have more refined ways of performing an activity. Right? But the point is, is the principle of the activity doesn’t change. Right? Just like if you meet people and greet people, is that a problem? No. That’s a standard, standard element of etiquette that everyone follows. You know, here in the spiritual world, it’s standard. So if people are dealing in a superficial way, the problem is that they’re not dealing properly with it. Right? Why would it be superficial? It would be superficial because of what results they want to get.
Right? Not the activity. So we have to be able to distinguish. Because otherwise, how do you perform karma yoga? Because naiskarmiya means what?
Krishna. Yes. So that means as you’re dealing, the result changes. Right? Because naiskarmiya doesn’t mean no work. Right? Naiskarmiya means you’re performing the work, but the results are for Krishna. Right?
Does that make sense? So it’s very important to be able to make that distinction. Otherwise, then, so much of the time is we think, oh, it has to be something different. But it’s not different. The principle is never different, because the principle is Krishna. Right? So it can’t change. Right? It can’t change.
Does that make sense?
Yes. Here it says that one may give up work only after sufficient purification through naiskarmiya. Why would one want to give up work? Let us say you’re working to make lots of money to, you know, facility for your family. So at some point, will that stop? Yes. You understand? So at some point means there’s no need for increasing facility. So the specific work No, it means, in other words, we’ve made a distinction in work between direct and indirect. Right? So the direct work, you know, is it a matter of as you advanced in Krishna consciousness, then you give up chanting japa or you give up association of devotees or hearing Bhagavatam or, you know, saying like that, you give up living in the dom or, you know. Does that make sense? The direct, that’s never given up. The point is, is it’s indirect. Indirect is based on engaging your conditioned nature. Right? You know, that’s based on your material needs and material desires. So because those are there, one doesn’t give them up. Right? One simply does those things, but in the mood of, in the spirit of detachment. It’s naiskarmiya. Does that make sense? So giving that up, then that’s what it means. You have to engage yourself. Right? You have to keep yourself busy. And one’s going to be comfortable doing those activities that one’s comfortable at. Right? So being comfortable in that way, then one situates oneself. Right? Because it’s a situation in which you work. Right? The situation is what you work in. So now it’s just a matter of that situation.
So, yeah, but it’s inspired or driven by the conditioned nature. So the point is, as a conditioned nature gets purified, then one gets more nicer and nicer situated in naiskarmiya. Right? So one’s performing the activity with no problem, the results for Krishna, doing the work for Krishna. But at some point, it may not be so important to be doing an indirect activity connected to Krishna, when it could be replaced with a direct.
You know what I’m saying? Instead of, you know, working all day at a job and making money when you don’t actually need it, because, you know, you don’t need to go on that, you know, how you say, holiday to the Bahamas, and your wife doesn’t need, you know, another, you know, hundred saris, or, you know, this or that. You know what I’m saying? So therefore, you could spend that time doing service at the temple. You know what I’m saying? Or if it’s favorable, you make the money and use it for preaching, like Prabhupada. He would do the business and then maintain the preaching. Point is, is that it switches. You know, so now instead of it being, so here it’s a matter of it’s business for the family, but he sees it in connection with Krishna. Right? And then with time, then there’s no need for that money for the family, but he uses that money for preaching. But then it may come to the point as he can do more preaching by just not doing the business of spending the time in the field. So then that would be, that would be the meaning of giving up the work. But we see it’s indirect is given up, never direct.
Right? So that means this whole discussion on Naish Kamya, Kama Yoga, is dealing with the indirect activities only? Basically, it’s dealing with the indirect. Yeah. But at the same time is even within, in, in direct, because you still have, you still have the difference. You have Bhagavata, which is direct. You have Pancharatrik, which is basically all direct, but there are some support of some ones, things that are indirect, like taking a bath or something like that. It’s not, by taking a bath, it’s not specifically spiritual. But let’s say offering an artik to the deity, that is. Right? But to offer the artik, you have to be clean, so you have to take a bath. Right? So those things will always remain, those indirect, because they’re in support of the direct. Right? But now, then you have the next level Krishna talks about, is then working for him. So that means you’re taking your conditioned nature and doing that work for him. So it’s Naish Kamya, but it’s Sannyas Naish Kamya. Means it’s Krishna’s work. So let’s say you have an ability for business, but you do a business for the temple to make money to run a preaching program. So it’s Krishna’s business, it’s Krishna’s work, it’s not yours, but you’re engaging your conditioned nature. So that also doesn’t need to be given up, unless one could do more service by not running the business. You know, after a while, other people are trained and all that, and you’re, you know, that maturity is there, so people would rather hear you speak rather than just your arranging things. Does that make sense? So in there also, you don’t, that will just be what’s most favorable. So that’s not also a problem, so much of giving it, because it’s already established as that. The next one is where you’re working and then giving the results.
So now that’s, now you’re dealing with, how you say, renunciation Naish Kamya, instead of Sannyas Naish Kamya. Because you’re getting it, the results are yours, then you’re giving them to Krishna. So it’s a lower form of Naish Kamya, but it’s still Naish Kamya, because the results will be given to Krishna.
Does that make sense? Then you have, as you go down from that, is that, OK, then you only get part of it to Krishna, or, you know, it gets less and less and less. You know what I’m saying? So it’s more for you and less for Krishna. You understand? So the point is, Naish Kamya, trying to get to the point of it’s all for Krishna. But it’s just a matter of, you know, how that’s defined, how that all is, you know, whether it’s direct or indirect. Does that make sense? Yes? I have a question. If we’re working for Krishna, let’s say, I have an example, specifically. If I’m distributing books and I want to directly give everything to Krishna, work for Krishna, but I take that money also to maintain myself, to maintain my family, is that considered indirect or direct? That would be indirect. But even though it’s doing his work. I think like this, OK, let us say you’re in the kitchen, OK? You’re cutting vegetables. So is that cooking? Yes. But technically, you’ve cut the vegetables, now can you say lunch is ready? Why not?
What has not happened for it to be ready? The cooking. So technically, cutting vegetables is not cooking. But it’s in support of cooking. So therefore, you say he’s in the kitchen cooking and you go in and he’s cutting vegetables, you don’t say, he’s not cooking, he’s cutting vegetables.
Do you understand? So there’s cooking, which is actually cooking, and then there’s all those things that allow it to happen. But it’s still not cooking. So taking care of the family is not book distribution.
But the point is, unless you’re taking care of yourself, how will you do book distribution? So that’s indirect.
Indirect means it’s not directly connected to Krishna.
Does that make sense?
Because one may say no, but then we’re doing book distribution. But the point is, do you have to be married and have a family to do book distribution? Could a brahmachari do book distribution like that? It wouldn’t be implausible. It’s a possibility, right? OK, so now does the brahmachari actually have to keep any money to maintain himself? No, he just gives all the money to the temple. The temple takes care. Does that make sense? So he’s keeping the money and then taking care of himself, taking care of a family, which is, the family is not necessary for book distribution. Therefore, it’s indirect.
You know what I’m saying? You have in your house some nice furniture, a nice rug on the floor. Is that necessary to serve Krishna?
But why is it there? It creates an environment that you’re comfortable with. You’re comfortable with a certain living standard, right? And so that living standard, then, that’s not direct. You know, that’s in consideration of your conditioned nature, right? So, OK, this would be the easiest thing. If it’s in consideration of your constitutional nature, that would be direct, acting in that. Acting in consideration of the conditioned nature, that would be indirect.
Does that make sense? But the point is, is now, you may have it like that. You like aesthetic environment, but now you want to preach, so therefore, if I have a nice environment, that makes it more comfortable for others. You’re comfortable in it. Why wouldn’t others be comfortable? So then, now instead of just keeping it nice because you like it nice, now you keep it nice because, you know, others will come and it will be a preaching environment, right? But it’s still indirect because it’s in consideration of your need for aesthetics.
Does that make sense? But now, something that would be direct, the sannyas, means it can be that in the house, but let’s say something’s more obvious. Is that, let’s say, you like to do aesthetic things, so therefore, you decorate the temple. You know, you do the paint, you put up curtains, you fix this and that, but it’s just Krishna’s place, it’s not yours. So then it becomes direct, but it’s in consideration of your conditioned nature, right? So it’s still on the lower level. It’s a higher level than dealing with the indirect, but it’s still lower than Sarva-Dharma and Parityaja. Because there, it’s still, you like to do aesthetic things, what can I do? Hey, I could decorate the temple. So it started from your need, right? Sarva-Dharma and Parityaja means I want to serve Krishna. You know, and then, okay, so there’s so many services in the temple, what can I do? Oh, hey, I can help decorate.
Does that make sense? So you’re starting from the service and coming back into what you can do it from your conditioned state, rather than starting from the conditioned state and connecting it to Krishna. You know what I’m saying? But the point is, is it doesn’t matter how it works as long as it connects.
That’s the main thing. So even if it’s connecting at a lower level, if one is consistent in that, that will bring it to a higher level.
And then from that level, it’ll eventually get to, it’s just Krishna, that’s the consideration.
Does that make sense? Because then you have the support of the nature of the relationship. Like Mother Yashoda, so she likes to serve Krishna, you know, in the capacity as his mother. So that’s going to be in consideration of her nature. But the nature is based on her affection for Krishna.
So it’s not considered as indirect.
Because that’s coming from, so the nature is here. But our nature has not come because of our love for Krishna. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? We’re not born, you know, someplace in the Bronx or something because of our great love for Krishna. You know like that. And so because you put that all together and that came out that you were born, you know, over there. You know what I’m saying? Manhattan? Maybe. Forget it, you know. Like that, you know. Okay. And then there’s Jersey, right, of course. We won’t even talk about that. Huh? Yeah, okay. Does that make sense? Next life. Slowly move up, you know. Jersey, then up to the Bronx, and then to the Lower East Side, and then the Upper East Side. Okay.
After many, many births. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Yes.
Question being asked.
Can, if the temple maintains. But then the temple has, means you have the element that generally a grihastha is independent. But if the temple is making the facility, then one would have to see that.
Because the person distributing books, how is he distributing books? In what capacity?
You know what I’m saying? What’s his capacity? Under what varna? Because we say, you’ve already established the ashram as grihastha. But what varna is he distributing books? You understand? Yes. So if he’s a brahman, then he has to be independent. So that means the temple will give him a donation to take care of himself. But if he’s a shudra, and he’s just good at his art, his sails, and so he’s distributing books, then the temple may just take care. You understand? Directly. Means they’ll pay the bills, they’ll do everything like that. Or maybe they’re doing it as a service to the brahman. But the mentality is very, very careful in here. You know what I’m saying? Because the etiquette, this is why it becomes difficult. Because of the lack of that understanding of the etiquette. Because the point is, even the temple is paying for everything. For a brahman, they don’t own a brahman. You don’t own brahmans. Brahmans will never be owned. You own shudras. You don’t own brahmans. But the problem is, in the temple, if the consideration of money is all, and because of that you control everything, then what is the temple president?
A manager. A vaisya. Right? So vaisyas don’t control brahmans. Right? That’s the way he can engage himself, because he’s dealing with money, he can make the accounts and all that, and keep the temple from going broke. That’s why he’s the temple president. Because the last temple president, then there was a debt, and so that’s why he’s there. Because he’s good at raising money, collecting money. It’s not that he’s there because he’s the one that’s going to inspire the whole yatra and everything. He’s there because they have to pay the debt. Right? But it doesn’t mean he can’t be inspiring. You know, be a preacher. But the point is, just because he has money, that doesn’t mean etiquette’s not there. Because the Vedic system is, he can be the temple president, and be the manager of the zone. Right? And be, you know, the one who says what goes on. At the same time is, the brahmans are independent and he respects them. But you only get that in the Vedic culture. Western culture, there’s basically no concept of this at all. Means zero. Means there’s only in-charge and, you know, how you say, doormat.
That’s as good as it gets in the West. Otherwise, you look at it, why are all the fighting and wars and that in European history? You have a king and he’s running the kingdom. So why won’t the people be happy with that? Why are there revolts? Because they’re not dealt with, they’re not respected as citizens, as their prajna, as their like children. They’re just something to exploit.
So those who understand that, that they take care and those good qualities, those are known in a good way. And they’re inspiring. You know, you hear about King Arthur, whether he existed or not. But people like that concept. You know, like that. But others in European history, who’s known as a good king? There’s hardly any known. Some were a good statesman and ran a good stolid kingdom, but it’s not necessarily that citizens were really satisfied. You know, like that. So that’s the difficulty. But in the Vedic system, you see, that standard is good kings and taking care. And then you have your exceptions.
You understand? So this ability to have a dual aspect of respect, that one can respect one for one thing and another for another thing. You get that, let’s say, on the level of like, say, you have celebrities and all that come together. There, everybody’s big, so each one respects each other for what they have.
But when it comes to administration and money, then somehow it’s very much lacking in the Western culture.
So that’s why it’s so important to be able to take advantage of the Vedic concepts. Because right here, it won’t work. Point is, if they’re Brahmins, they’ll live as Brahmins. You know, you don’t have to worry that they’ll want more. Right? Shudras will want more. You know, others have, they want. Brahmins, others have, what do they care? You know, they may want, they may not want.
You know, so there’s a difference. One, you’re maintaining. One, it’s a donation.
Like Prabhupada in the Upadesa Amrita, you probably, you come, yeah, I think it’s right in the beginning, the first one. You’ve already come across it. How does Prabhupada define book distribution?
Oh, no, it’s in the third verse, I think. The Dati Pratigrinati. You’re giving knowledge, and the people are happy with that, and giving you a Dakshin in reverse. It’s not book selling.
Right? That’s why we use the term book distribution.
You know, so some understand it as distributing books. Others understand it as it’s an economic thing. But that’s the point. Book distribution is so universal. Anyone can do it. Brahmins can do it as preaching. Kshatriyas do it because it’s righteous work. Vaishyas do it, it makes money. Shudras do it because they have the art. They know how to sell. Anybody can do it. You know, so it’s so universal.
But you still have to know what you’re dealing with. Because if you don’t, then people won’t stay. You know, Shudras are driving nuts.
So it’s a problem.
Yes? I don’t understand. If we have brahminical brahmachari, how can he be independent?
But why does a brahminical brahmachari have to be independent? But you just said that brahmin is a slave. Yeah, but brahmin is, that’s a grihastha. Or even then, even as a brahmachari, what’s the relationship, who does a brahmachari work under?
Authority, guru, but in what capacity?
That’s there, full capacity of his side. What is the capacity of the person he works under?
No, no, no. What’s the nature of the person that a brahmachari is surrendered to?
Brahmin. When you go to a gurukula, who’s in charge of gurukula? Right, so that means the temple has to be like a gurukula.
It’s an educational center in which he is there. So the point is, is the lifestyle is brahminical. So they’re under the teacher, but it’s not economic purposes. It’s not administrative purposes. It’s training.
Because that brahmachari will either remain a naisthika brahmachari, or he’ll get married. So if he gets married, he needs the training. If he’s going to remain a brahmachari and do that service, then again, he needs training.
So the culture is brahminical. In the Vedic system, there is no other culture than brahminical. There isn’t kshatriya culture, vaisya culture. No, there’s only brahminical culture. That’s why brahminical culture, Vedic culture, sanatana dharma, they’re all synonymous terms. Does that make sense? Right?
Like that. So it can’t be that the temple president thinks he owns the brahmacharis. Because if he thinks like that, then it won’t work. Because a brahmin is non-possessive. So if he’s possessive like that, that immediately drops him from the brahminical platform. You know what I’m saying? So therefore, there’s going to be friction. Because that means in the brahmachari, if he’s brahminical, he’s actually of a higher nature than the temple president, though his position is lower. And so unless that position, that brahminical position, is respected by that temple president, at some point, it’ll create friction. Right? And so if the brahmachari maintains his nature as a brahmachari, he’ll have no problem. But the temple president will, because he’s not respecting brahmins. How long can you go on in your position not respecting brahmins? You can say, well, service to Krishna. How is disrespecting brahmins service to Krishna? You know what I’m saying? So many other things are nice, that’s why it’ll kind of go on. But at some point, your anarthas, what do we say?
They’re just little sprouts that just stay there permanently. Or what do they do? They grow. So that means your service, your preaching, your ratha-yatras, that’s your increasing. So the creeper is increasing. But at the same time, you’re not dealing properly with the brahmins. So that’s growing also. So unless at some point you pull it out, it will strangle you.
You understand? So this is culture. So the point is, Krishna consciousness doesn’t mean it’s not culture. So we accept the philosophy. But the culture we don’t accept. Why? Because we don’t know what culture is. Right? Because in the Western so-called civilization, that famous quote, when Mahatma Gandhi went and visited England, and when he came back, someone asked him, so what do you think of Western civilization? And he said, that would be a good idea.
So, in other words, in your Western civilization, what is culture?
You say someone’s cultured. What does that mean? He has knowledge, distinction.
Okay. That’s one. Appreciation for arts. That’s going to be very, very. Huh? He’ll dress nicely. He’ll speak nicely. You know, he’ll go to the movies. He’ll go to the opera. You know, he’ll go to the, you know, visit the museum where all the paintings are, go to the Louvre, you know, like this. You know, that kind of thing, like that. Of course, he’ll walk around that little triangle out front, right? You know, like that.
Does that make sense?
Right? So that’s it. So how many people are, by Western standards, cultured? Very few. So that means if you take up Krishna consciousness and leave your conditioned nature as it is, how many people are going to appreciate the Vedic culture? Very few. And of those who do, what are they going to appreciate? The bit that matches with that. Yeah, the bit that matches with that. If they were into arts, then they’ll look at that. If they were into, you know, dressing nicely, they’ll dress nicely, you know, or they have a nice culture, they’ll behave like that nicely.
You know what I’m saying? But that’s it. You know, what about the rest of it, the whole dynamic between the individuals? That’s what has to be learned. So this concept that Vedic culture doesn’t work, no, it’s the only thing that works. But you have to be smart to be able to apply it into the time, place, and circumstance. That means it’s not dogmatic. It’s not a matter of it’s rigid or just ritualistic. No, the ritual is there to give, you know, a basis on how you’d behave if that ritual can be performed. If not, then what’s the principle of the ritual? What is it trying to achieve?
Does this make sense?
Yes.
But the point is, is what is the position? The GBC position is what? What are they supposed to do in this society?
Administry? Has Prabhupada ever called them administrators? Ever?
Governing body. Okay, governing body. But the point is, he says, have you ever used the word administration? No. Who does administration in our society? Temple presidents.
So now they’re already doing the administration. So what do you need a GBC for? The standards are being followed. In other words, like this problem we’re discussing here, is that is the temple president dealing with the devotees in the temple appropriately according to the culture? That’s what the GBC is supposed to see. So that means the position of the GBC is brahminical, not kshatriya, not vaisya. It’s brahminical. I’m thinking more from the aspect of sannyasas, educating gurus, being, you know, pledging allegiance to the officials or the verdicts of the GBC, the collective. But the point is, is if it’s a body of brahmins, what’s the problem? It’s not. It’s not a problem, I get that. No, but the point is, is how did Prabhupada define it? It’s a brahminical committee.
It’s a committee of brahmins who are preachers, but at the same time as they know management, so they’re able to relate to and give good direction and advice to temple presidents. Just like, it’s the same thing. Who runs the kingdom? The king. The king. But who sees that the king does what he’s supposed to do according to the standards, according to gurus, sadhu and shastra? The brahmins. Right? So the kings have senior brahmins who oversee what they do. That’s the GBC. And the king is the temple president. So bureaucracy starts with the temple president and ends there.
The GBC is not a bureaucratic body. There’s no need. It’s brahmins. They’re preachers. Brahmins don’t need bureaucracy.
Kshatriyas know how to use it, but they’re not bureaucratic.
Vaishyas set one up only because they have to pay taxes and this and that, otherwise they’d rather stay away from it, you know, spend money. So what are bureaucrats? Bureaucrats are shudras. So kshatriyas engage shudras in bureaucracy, but they’re not bureaucrats. So if you’re a bureaucrat, that means you’re a shudra. It’s that simple. It’s direct. You know, people may not like it. It doesn’t sound good, but that doesn’t matter. You know, what is this? It’s a rock. What if you don’t like it? That sounds so harsh. It’s a rock. Why can’t we call it something else? You know, it’s like this. But it doesn’t change its nature as a rock. So a bureaucrat’s a bureaucrat no matter what you call him. A milky crystal. Huh? A milky crystal. A milky crystal. Slightly dusty milky crystal.
Yeah. A milky crystal in need of de-dustment.
That’s all.
The common people. So the thing is, shudra’s not a bad thing. We like to make it out. But why? Who are we making it out from? We’re making it out from the Western viewpoint. You know? Or from the so-called, you know, Brahmins, the smartest, that put themselves in a higher position. They have to speak badly about it. But we don’t see in the culture that there’s dealing improperly. Right? Does Bhishma deal badly with Vidura? Do the Pandavas ever deal badly with Vidura? Do the Pandavas take advice from Vidura? Is he even, like, protecting them and sheltering them and all that? So what varna are the Pandavas? Shudra. What varna is Vidura? Shudra. So the point is, is it’s just they’re not in that position to administrate. But it doesn’t mean they don’t know what they’re doing in that environment.
You understand? It’s a very subtle thing. That’s what we’re saying about the culture. It’s more than yogurt or going to the opera. You know, like that.
So it’s a subtle thing that it’s practical. Was Yudhishthira running an empire? The whole world. So now does that mean was he being practical? Or was he all airy-fairy in the sky, all theory? Very practical. So that means it can be. So if we’re not able to see it, then we have to study it. We have to try to apply it, practice it. Then it will come. Does this make sense? So the practical will come. But where do you start from? Because what is the thing? Oh, we have time, place, and circumstance. But what is the philosophy in which we say time, place, and circumstance?
What is that philosophy?
Think about it. Is it in consideration of the Shastra? Is it in consideration of administration based on religious principles? Or is it based on economics?
So when we say most people say time, place, and circumstance, their philosophy is pragmatism.
Pragmatism is what’s the quickest, easiest, efficient way to get something done. No consideration of anything else. If it actually got the work done or it made profit, then it’s pragmatic. And if there was any obstacle that was created by some theoretical aspects, then that’s impractical. It’s like I want to get this done. And so I just say do it. But if I have to consider that, okay, there’s this group of senior Prabhupada disciples, and then there’s others who have been here in the zone for a long time. They’re like this. And then we have consideration of there’s some Matajis who are doing the puja that we have to take care of. And then we also have a brahmachara. Then that weighs on the mind. I can’t just, you know, this is what I do and that’s it. I have to consider all these things and balance it. That’s the time, place, and circumstance. So when they say time, place, and circumstance, it actually means they don’t want to consider time, place, and circumstance. So time, place, and circumstance actually means whatever I feel like doing, that’s what I should be able to do. So it’s not actually. It’s a smoke screen, time, place, and circumstance. Because it’s not actually. Because time, place, and circumstance, what about that? What about that you have a temple there and there’s 300, you know, devotees that live outside that are not coming to the temple. Why aren’t they coming to the temple?
Time, place, and circumstance. That’s why.
You know what I’m saying? So the point is, is if that’s your yatra, why aren’t they being considered as part of the equation?
You know? Because there must, out of 300, there must be some that you are, something since you could cultivate. Okay, there’s a few that, you know, are very political or very bitter or this and that. Then okay, leave them for now. But, you know, out of that, at least, you know, find some. But are they considered in the equation? Or is it, no, no, unless you’re in the temple, under the direct authority of the temple president, he tells you what to do, however he likes, and you do it, then you’re sincere. That’s not time, place, and circumstance. That means the time is, you know, whatever the temple president says. The place is wherever he’s saying it. And the circumstances, you know, just whatever it is, is the way he wants it. It’s not actually considering everything.
You understand? So that’s what the GBC is there for, to see that the temple president is considering all these things. And the standards, standards of deity worship, standards of cleanliness, standards of prasad, the standards of, you know, taking care of the devotees, the etiquette that’s there, the book distribution is there, you know, the preaching, how they’re dealing, how they’re presenting themselves. That’s what the GBC is supposed to do. And if the temple president is doing it, then he’s out preaching, opening more temples.
Because the point is, is you can’t tell me it takes, you know, 20 million people in New York to run one temple.
You know? 20 million people could maintain a lot more than one temple.
You know what I’m saying? So there could be temples everywhere.
You know what I’m saying? But no, this is my territory from New York all the way up to, you know, Maine. You know, that’s mine. You know, like that, you know? And if anybody else is out there, you know, got somebody to give a donation, that’s my donation. No, but you didn’t do it. You didn’t do the work. Why? Just because you sit there, it’s yours.
You know what I’m saying? The king is there, and then somebody gives him charity in his kingdom. Can the king say, this is my charity, my donation? No, because charity is a religious act.
His control of it, that’s management. They’re two different things. Control, being the temple president is a manager, that’s Varna. But Varna doesn’t control ashram. Ashram is the spiritual. The other is the social. So how can Varna control ashram?
So these things aren’t considered. Why? Because they don’t know.
And you can only know if you want to know.
And only if you see that there’s a validity, that you could do something with this and actually develop, you could get more. Management is going like this, but if you understood these subtleties, your management would be even better.
Then people are interested.
Does that make sense? So we have to remember, time, place, and circumstance actually comes from the Vedas. It doesn’t come from modern. I was thinking more of the aspect of, I mean, if you understand BBC now as a super-minical board, when you say Brahmins aren’t owned by anyone, does that include Brahmins? Owned means, it doesn’t mean that you feel that because I’ve given money to the Brahmin, therefore he has to do what I say.
No, it’s not the money first. It’s that they’ve done something, you’re giving Dakshin. It’s just like, let’s say there’s a Yajna. The Brahmin does the Yajna. When do you give the Dakshin? At the end, after it’s finished. You don’t give before. Brahmins won’t accept it before.
Because it’s not a business deal.
So as I’m saying, they’ve done a service. So it’s not that because you’ve given money, you own him. You’ve given for what service you’ve done, out of respect for the service. Not that I’ve given the money. Now he has to do this for me. There’s a cooperation. Brahmins, because they’re working according to Guru Sadhu Shastra, so there’s a cooperation.
So that’s to be seen, is that the standard of a minical culture is there, so that cooperation is there. At the same time, there has to be that respect for that position.
So in other words, you can have a junior man, who is the temple president, and there’s so many other senior men in the temple or in the yatra, and he won’t have any problem with them, because he respects them for their position. But they have to respect him for his. He is the manager of the temple. Therefore, he’s allowed to manage. This idea is that you have a committee that tells the temple president what to do. They’ve turned the temple president from the position of basically an administrator into that of a manager, a sutra. So that’s bogus.
There’s no such thing as… Prabhupada said a temple president, not committee.
So it’s a bogus concept. Who will make it up? People who are not managers.
In other words, I say bureaucracy begets bureaucracy. So shudras will come up with shudra systems.
Does that make sense?
What is bureaucracy? Bureaucracy means where you have an office, and you have a bunch of papers, and you have some rules and regulations. And basically, things going perfectly means the papers are moving and stuff like that, and people are being dealt with exactly according to the rules that are there on that paper in front of you, like that. There’s no consideration actually of the person or the time, place, and circumstance. So bureaucracy means the inability to see time, place, and circumstance, also the ability to actually manage, like that. It’s necessary. You have to have bureaucracy.
It’s like your accounts office, that’s a bureaucracy. Your legal office, all these things are all part of the bureaucracy. But that can’t be what leads the temple. You have to have a leader leading the temple. A leader is a person. A leader inspires people. Bureaucrat just gets specific work done, like that. Nobody’s inspired, it doesn’t mean he’s doing a bad job. He can be a fabulous accountant and doing his work nicely, but nobody’s inspired. But a temple president’s a leader. If he’s not inspiring others, then he’s doing a bad job.
Does that make sense? So the idea is that the subtleties of the culture go with the philosophy. Then it works really nicely. Otherwise, if it’s not considered, it won’t go anywhere.
Thus, in order to attain his goal, the astanga-yogi should perform activities, which are not directly connected to his yoga practice. On the other hand, a bhakti-yogi achieves perfection by devotional service alone, without the need for separate endeavors. This is so because bhakti, as the topmost yoga practice, is independent and awards the results of all other yoga systems. Srila Prabhupada writes in Renunciation Through Wisdom, those who are already executing their work for the satisfaction of Lord Krsna are not required to separately perform sacrifices, austerities or meditation that are not on the platform of pure Krsna consciousness. Previously we explained that a pure karma-yogi, a devotee, is automatically a brahmana, sannyasi and a yogi. Like a karmi, or fruit of worker, he is expert in performing sacrifice and executing his duties. Like a jnani, or seeker of knowledge, he is renounced and austere. And like a yogi, he is also detached from the fruits of his work and has brought his senses under control. One who is completely detached from all fruit of work and has become attached to the Supreme Lord and his loving devotional service is simultaneously ornamented with all good qualities.
So all these come in line with, they become devotional service. So, because for the yogi, he’s going to be taking his bath and, you know, cleaning his ashram and this and that, but it technically has not really much to do with his yoga practice. He needs a clean environment, he needs to be clean, so he’s doing that. But, if we see, it’s not connected to what he’s doing. You understand?
Like that. But for the devotee, he sees Krishna in what he’s doing, so it’s connected. Right? Remember, the Astanga Yoga System is going to connect to the Lord at the last two stages. So that means while you’re doing the first six, it’s not.
Right? You’re inspired by getting to that point, but you’re not actually connecting it on the lower level. You’re doing Hatha Yoga, you’re not meditating on the Lord. Right? Hatha Yoga is so that the body is in the proper health, that you can hold a yogic asana, basically permanently.
Right? Because before they would sit for 10,000 years or 60,000 years, so you have to be quite good at that asana.
So, like that. When you’re doing pranayama, you’re just worried about the meditation on what you’re doing. You understand? And that. Then you’re going to pull in the senses. Right? Pratyahara. And then Dharana, focus on one place, but there’s nothing in that place. Then, only when that’s perfect, then you start Dhyana. That’s the seventh. Then you put Paramahamsa there. At that point, then you can say, now it’s touching on me. You know, spiritual. And then Samadhi means that full absorption. So, those two parts of it are useful for us. The other two, we have our own systems. Because we’ll connect those things to Krishna. Right? That will make the difference.
Does this make sense? So, that’s why all the practice is basically a business. It doesn’t touch.
No, it doesn’t. I mean, they’ll say they’re doing meditation, but what are they actually meditating on? Do most yogis give paramatma to meditate on? No. Like that, Brahman at best. Maybe you look at a yajna. Maybe some color. Or think of a nice field. You know, butterflies and deers. So, who knows? But it’s not actually connected. And the purpose is just health. So, it’s not actually astanga yoga. The hatha yoga, they’re just doing the exercises. But even then, it’s not that focused. Or they’ll add some pranayama and like that. So, I think that becomes kriya yoga. You know, like that. Or raja yoga, when you add like that. But they’ll never get to pratyahara. Pulling in the senses. They’ll never. Even in pranayama, they just use it for health. So, it’s actually just a support for the hatha. Because actually, the perfection of pranayama is you stop the breathing. The ingoing breath and the outgoing breath merge into each other and the breathing stops. Because as long as the breath is moving, the mind is disturbed. That’s why in pranayama, then as you advance, then you practice this holding it. You breathe in, hold it. Breathe out, hold it. So, you’re breathing in one, holding for four, breathing out two. Then holding for four, breathing in one. So, we see the holding in or out is longer than the breathing in and out.
You understand? Because you’re trying to get to the point where then you increase that, increase that, increase that. Until you stop the breathing.
Does that make sense? Because that’s difficult to do. I don’t know if you know anything. There’s the lotus where you put your hands crossed behind your back and hold your toes. That one’s specifically for when you stop the breathing and the body doesn’t really like that. It bounces around. So, that keeps you in position. You won’t hurt yourself. You won’t go out of your asana.
Because you’re trying to stop the breathing altogether. You know, you hear these yogis, you bury them in the ground for three weeks and stuff like that. Because they stop the breathing. It’s kumbhaka yoga. But, you know, Prabhupada mentions the frogs do that. You know, the frogs in winter, you know, they dig themselves in a hole in the ground and stop the breathing. So, they’re actually, you know, kumbhaka yogis. And then, you know, in the spring again, when it warms up, then they, you know, start breathing again. Come out and hop around. So, you know, they may be two months or four months, just, you know, stop the breathing. So, it’s like, you know, frogs are great yogis, you know. So, it’s no big deal. That’s the thing that makes such a big deal out of it.
Does that make sense? So, that’s the point. So, the devotee, then, we say he doesn’t need these separate endeavors. Because whatever endeavors he has are connected. So, when he performs activities, he says, like, like a karmi, a fruit of work, he’s expert in performing sacrifices and executing his duties. So, for others, that’s separate than, you know, actually the purpose. But he does that and it’s connected to Krishna. You know, the jnanis renounced seeker of knowledge.
Right? He’s renounced and austere. So, he has knowledge and all that. And, you know, he’s renounced, he’s austere, he has knowledge, like that. But that’s all connected to Krishna. Austerity means performing your prescribed duties.
And like a yogi, he’s detached from the fruits of his work and has brought his senses under control. So, his senses are controlled for Krishna. Right? So, this is, these are the settle points where we keep bringing back the example of, of, how you say, the karmi’s cooking, the devotee’s cooking. The difference is not in the cooking. Right? The difference is in the result.
That’s where, that’s where you look. Because what’s the problem with the fruit of worker? Right? He’s giving in charity, he’s getting up in the morning, he’s taking his bath. You know, he’s dressing nicely, then he’s giving in charity to the Brahmins. You know, performing a yajna. What’s the problem?
The result is to elevate himself to the heavenly planets or get material facility here. Right? But the devotee would do the same thing. Right? The jnani, he, you know, he controls, he’s, he’s renounced, he’s austere. He studies the scriptures. What’s the problem?
Yes. He wants to merge into Brahman. So, the result’s the problem. And the result’s his. Right? Right? Even for the fruit of, the result’s his. Right? He gets some material facility, he gives that to Krishna, there’s no problem. So, that’s the, that’s the devotee. Right? Or the yogi, he controls the senses. Right? He’s detached from the fruits of his work, he’s controlled his senses. What’s the problem?
Yes, he wants to merge with the Lord. So, that’s the problem. So, in other words, we see is the work isn’t the problem. Because it’s authorized work. Right? In other words, authorized work’s not the problem. The problem is what it’s for.
Does that make sense?
That’s the difficulty. So, if that’s seen, then that’s what’s going to naturally bring it into the fold of the scriptures.
Right? Because you’re doing something, and it’s not according to scripture. You know, you’re cooking, or this or that. But the principle of cooking doesn’t change. Because you’re cooking for Krishna, then you’re considering of Krishna, therefore you don’t taste it, you’re clean, you do all these things, you don’t mix the bhog and the prasad and all these, those naturally come.
Right? So, if it’s seen that the activity stays the same, but the consciousness changes, then what needs to change in the activity? You know, in other words, the arrangements, that may change. But the principle of cooking doesn’t change.
Right? This is a subtle point. That’s why Arjuna’s confused. Because he’s thinking, okay, if I’m spiritual, then it will change from me being a kshatriya on the battlefield and fighting, to something else. But it doesn’t. It’s not that now he’s a devotee, he holds his bow and arrow differently, you know, instead of holding it this way, he holds it backwards, you know, it looks good in the camera, or something like that. You know what I’m saying?
It’s…
It stays the same, but what changes is consciousness. Now those elements of karma are connected to Krishna. Right? But he’s seeing it through knowledge. So that’s the jnani. Right? His senses are controlled, he’s meditated upon the Lord, he’s detached work, therefore he’s a yogi.
You see? So this is what Krishna’s trying to get at, but the problem is that we’re so used to karma, or jnana, that the work that you combine the two, it’s just… the four devotional services just doesn’t happen. Even if they say it’s happening, it’s not happening. So that’s why it’s… even though it’s so simple, it’s actually, you know, it’s difficult to absorb, because for the unlimited lifetimes we’ve been in the material world, we’ve never done this. It’s either we’ve been karmis, or jnanis, or yogis, we’ve never actually combined them. And not only that, for the purpose of pleasing God, that’s definitely never been done before. You know? Does that make sense?
Yes?
Yes.
What makes a brahmana a brahman?
Factually.
It’s guna and karma, OK? But what makes his guna and karma different?
He’s looking for Brahman, you understand? Now, by looking for Brahman, and because of the nature of detachment and all that, therefore he does yogis and teaching, and deals with law and things that others wouldn’t deal with. You know, as is the condition state. But the principle that actually makes him a brahmana is seeking Brahman. Right? That’s why we can say the Vedic culture is a brahminical culture. Because factually, the kshatriyas, vaishnudas, everybody’s seeking Brahman. It’s just a matter, their activities are more or less direct. You know, inherently, on the condition platform.
Kshatriyas is based on the scriptures, but it has to be practically applied. If it’s not practically applied, kshatriyas aren’t interested. Right? Vaishya is simply to make money, but where does that money go? Right? That money will go to, you know, giving taxes to the kings, that will create the environment, right, the safe environment, and will be given in charity to brahmanas. Right? Naturally, you’ll take care of the sudras. Right? So in that way, indirectly, so it gives it to the brahmanas, that’s a direct. But otherwise the others are… And the sudras, they’re assisting the other three. So in other words, the brahminical culture goes on because of the brahmanas and kshatriyas.
But it needs the economic support and the, you know, the mass to run it. Right? You’re carried around by your legs, you know. If anything goes on, because your stomach digests things and distributes the energy.
Does that make sense? So in other words, the Brahman platform is what makes him a brahman. Now, what is the supreme Brahman?
Krishna. So in other words, if someone is worshipping Krishna, he’s automatically a brahman. But it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t engage his conditioned nature. Right? So someone may be a sudra by conditioned nature, so he will do activities of a sudra, but he’s actually a brahman because of his understanding of Brahman. You understand? So that means in varna, he’ll be definitely doing sudra activities. But in ashram, he may be doing brahminical activities.
You understand? Because ashram technically is brahminical.
Right? But, you know, the brahmacarya, vaisya, sudra also are engaged in that system. But the brahmacharya, grihastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa, that system is brahminical.
Like that. You know, because you go through training to understand Brahman. Then you practice that in your grihastha life. Then you retire and pull back from that. Prepare yourself for, you know, how you say, going beyond that. Sannyasa is then in that dedication to that. Does that make sense? So, in ashram, they’re brahmins because that’s for the spiritual understanding. But they’re doing the work of a sudra. So he goes to the office and the boss tells him, you know, hey, get these papers ready and this and that. He does that. He doesn’t go, hey, I’m a brahmin. You can’t tell me. You’re just a vaisya. You know, no. He’s acting in capacity of a sudra. So he does that. But he’s remembering Krishna. Well, his boss, who’s a vaisya, supposedly in a higher position, is not.
You know, or he may be.
That means that when you’re doing considerations of varna, varna is considered. But when it comes to ashram activities, like who gives the bhagavatam class? Do we say only someone who’s a brahmin? No, they could be a sudra. Who worships a deity? You know, someone who’s second initiated. They may be a sudra by nature, but they worship the deity. Right? Who does book distribution? Who preaches? So on the ashram side, there’s no consideration. It’s who’s qualified does. You know what I’m saying? If the sudra nature is so strong and so attached to it that therefore they can’t be steady in their devotional activities and that, then no, they’re not giving the class. They’re not worshiping the deity. But that’s because of their spiritual lack of qualification, not because they’re a sudra. Right? As we said, Vidura, he’s a great devotee, but he’s a sudra.
Does that make sense? So there’s a distinction between varna and ashram.
How do you recognize the natures?
Brahman is a level of consciousness that what work you can do. Just like, who do you have cook lunch?
Anyone. You know, take, you know, ok, Bhakta Jose, you know, the only thing he’s ever done with a lighter is light, you know, a joint or something like that. So we sent him into the kitchen. Right? Right? Isn’t it? Or would you send someone who knows how to cook? Ok. Who drives the car? Anyone, because we’re all devotees, we’re all…
You understand? So in other words, who has the material skill does that particular activity. But because of the consciousness, then they’re doing it for Krishna, so therefore they’re a brahman. So the two work at once. Right? As a devotee, you’re doing everything for Krishna. But at the same time, whatever is your material ability and skill, that’s what you do for Krishna.
You understand?
Then things work very nicely.
You know, so in other words, let’s say, Sudra, so let’s say, but he’s a good devotee and you need a cook and he can learn cooking, then he can cook for Krishna, because he’s cooking from his level of consciousness, the brahman. But he’s able to cook because as an artist, cooking is an art, so therefore he can do it. But if you told him as an artist, then let’s say, manage the accounts, he could do, he could learn that, because it’s an art. But to run a business, he couldn’t do, that’s not an art, that’s a science, so he couldn’t do that. You know, being an administrator, he couldn’t do that.
You know what I’m saying? And then, let’s say, deity worship, he can do, but then, how much he’s situated on that level of consciousness, so he can come and do an artique and then go away. But would he be able to be a full-time bhajari with seven artiques a day and offerings and dressing the deities and waking them up, putting them to sleep, could he do that day in, day out, you know, for years? That he may not be able to do.
You know what I’m saying? Especially if the results that come from that are very minimal.
Does that make sense? So you have to consider what is the conditioned nature, you know, what is the ashram, the situated, how much does their material conditioning affect their devotional, you know, understanding.
You know, in other words, balance between their emotional, their spiritual development and their material attachment. What’s the nature of that material attachment? And then, put all that together and then you find a position. But it’s not rocket science, but the point is it just has to be understood it works. Oh no, but we’re not, but the point is you’re still the body. You know, the body still exists and we act according to it. Because I’m not this body, but, you know, I guarantee when prasadam time happens, that devotee’s there. You know what I’m saying? You know, he’s sleeping, you know, like that. They want to get married or they are married so they have to hang out with their family. but if we’re, we don’t need to do any of those. No, but don’t be so formatic, you know, like that. Bodhi’s beyond the rules, but you’re following them all. You know, you know what I’m saying? So, if you have that mentality, that person can never teach varna ashram. Why? Because they can’t actually understand the devotional process. They understand the essential, chant Hare Krishna, serve Krishna. And so, that’s enough for them. That’s good. But that person should never be in a leading position, unless the leading position doesn’t require these things. Okay, lead a kirtana or something else they can do, you know. They can manage as long as someone else is seen to the spiritual welfare of the devotees. But, but, otherwise it’s going to be a problem because they can’t actually accommodate the culture of Krishna consciousness.
Like that. Is that okay?
Yes. So, if they’re not trained in it, they don’t recognize it because they don’t recognize it. That’s why there’s five devotees in the temple and five hundred living outside, simply because of this one point.
The point is, you can’t see your nature, you can’t see anyone else’s. Because, what’s our process? Self-realization. Self-realization, not others’ realization. It’s self-realization. So, if you can’t see yourself, then how are you going to inspire others? That’s all. Why did the person move out? You know, because he’s been doing book distributions, saying it’s too difficult for him, I want to be able to do something else, stay in the temple, maybe do puja or do something else. No, no, just surrender. And then what happens? Then he goes away, he moves out, then he’s gone. Then what does the temple president say? Oh, he wasn’t sincere. Who wasn’t sincere?
That’s the problem. And then, after so many years of that, the temple president goes away. And now, according to his theory, he wasn’t sincere.
You know, but he’ll consider he’s very sincere. So that means, then the others may have also been sincere.
So the point is, is people aren’t engaged according to their nature.
You know what I’m saying? How do you know someone’s engaged? Because they’re still there.
You know, how many places, you still have, you can go around in our movement and find places, there’s devotees that have been doing that same thing forever. There’s still some devotees that have been doing book distribution from the 70s or 60s. They’re still doing it. They maintain themselves that way. They’re grihastas, like, they still do it. That’s, that’s, they’re nicely situated. You have temple president, they’ve been there, I think it was at San Diego, you know, manager, been there since the 70s. You know? So you have, like this, you know, you know what I’m saying? You know, you have intellectuals that are situated, they’ve been doing that forever. You know what I’m saying? Gopi Paranada, he’s been translating, you know, he’s still doing it. Jai Dvait is still editing.
So that means, that’s their nature. It’s situated. So that’s the point, is that you find that, they’ll do it forever. You don’t find it, they’ll go away. And because they’re not trained, they may not be able to find it themselves. And so, they’re not happy, and the temple can’t help them, so then what’s going to happen? So you have to be able to, because the point is, that some are going to live in the temple, some are not. But whatever they’re going to live, they’re all connected.
You know what I’m saying? You take a community like Chopati, 5,000 people, right? We’re not talking 500 here, 5,000. They’re all connected to the temple. Why? Because they’re all acting according to their nature.
Does that make sense?
So, that’s why it’s imperative to understand this.
If one doesn’t, it won’t work.
Right? So you have to be able to balance what is the conditioned nature, and what is the spiritual nature. So within the conditioned, you know, so the spiritual nature, how advanced? Konistha, Mata, Muta. And then in the conditioned nature, what is the nature? You know, what varna, what ashram do they need to be situated in?
Does that make sense?
Okay. Another implication of verse 1 is that one should strive for proper activity, as well as the proper mood behind it. A person who is attached only to the external designations is called a pretender. Bhagavad Gita 3.6. On the other hand, a great soul who is in perfect consciousness is not dependent on the external situation. 3.17 Although he may decide to follow the rules in order to set a good example. 3.20 So proper activity means and the mood behind it, the two that go together. So a pretender here is being defined not in that he’s just making some clever trick to get something done. You know, like a second-hand car salesman or something. But we’re talking about here he’s performing the rules and maybe sincerely, but he doesn’t have the right mood. So it’ll be a pretender. Because the two go together. Because when we say guna and karma, guna means the mood. Karma means the actual activity. So that’s why we say guna and karma. He has the mentality of a brahman and he’s performing the activities of a brahman. Right? Or he has the mentality of a ksatriya, he’s performing the activities. Or he’s a grihastha, he has the mentality.
You know what I’m saying? So we have to see that it’s…
otherwise it’s not right. The guy’s a brahmachari, he’s always thinking about the girls and trying to check things out like that, tries to be independent, doesn’t really work nicely under the authorities and all that. So he does the activity of brahmachari, but he’s a pretender because he doesn’t have the mentality. Then that same brahmachari eventually gets married, but now, once he gets married, now he’s all renounced. Like that. So, you know, he only goes home when he wants something. Something to eat, something else, like this and that. But now he’s a pretender because he doesn’t have the mentality.
You know what I’m saying? And then eventually then he leaves all that, becomes a vanaprastha and all that, instead of controlling it, he’s just trying to be famous and known and respected and all that. So, you understand?
So the problem is there is that the inability to match the mood with the activity.
Does that make sense? So that’s the problem. So they have to match, otherwise they’re a pretender. Yes? Why is there that tendency to not match the mood and the activity? Because if you match the mood and the activity, means one, you have to be responsible, then you have to endeavor. It’s just like this. If you’re a brahmachari and a good brahmachari, then what do you have to do? You have to follow the authority. You have to surrender to taking the responsibility of following the authority. Now, as a grihastha, what happens?
Now, you’re the authority in this, but what’s the common point?
You have to surrender to looking after your dependents. So in other words, it’s just reversed. But why did I say the person who’s not a good brahmachari won’t be a good grihastha? Why? Because in each one they’re trying to get out of their responsibility.
And as a brahmachari, oh, why be so fanatic? But as a grihastha, I should be austere. I should be renounced. Not austere, but renounced. But renounced means renounced from taking care of my family.
Renounced doesn’t mean renounced of good food or sex. No, no. That’s not… Come on. That’s grihastha life. It’s not that. But these other things, actually taking care of the family, then that’s another thing.
So that’s why you see it’s this… You know what I’m saying? They’ve missed the point. So they’re not surrendering. They’re not surrendering to their duties. That’s why this point of duty keeps coming up.
Right? Expert in performing sacrifice and executing his duties. So that’s the karma yoga aspect of buddhi -yoga. He’s expert at his duties. You know what I’m saying? Because if someone’s a good brahmachari, everyone appreciates it. Someone’s a good grihastha, everyone appreciates it. You can say, well, that’s contradictory. No. Because it’s well done.
Right? You know, the grihastha, he takes care of his family very nicely. They’re all satisfied. They’re all being Krishna conscious. Everyone’s going to say, hey, this is good.
Or the brahmachari, you know, he does his service and that. Everybody likes him. He works nicely with everybody. You know, he’s not interested in any material facility. Everyone will say, this is nice. He’ll be inspired. So that means any varna, any ashram done nicely is inspiring.
And then, the devotee does that for Krishna. So, then, that makes it, you know, actually spiritually inspiring.
Does that make sense?
does the varna shankara have a natural proclivity towards one mood and another activity on one sense you could say yes because that’s the mean of a shankar shankar means mixed so varna shankar means mixed varna you have ashram shankar what the examples we’re giving there that’s ashram shankar like that so so there’ll be a mix but the common point is is the self-centeredness of just doing what they like like that so that’s why they can’t follow the rules of the particular varna you know and they want this and that and all things so you get the thing so basically it comes down to the guna and the karma aren’t matched right because basically speaking technically is the mother gives one the father gives the other right the mother basically is a guna father’s the karma or vice versa as it is like say if you have a brahman father and a kshatriya mother right it’s anuloma but it’s only one degree so you don’t create varna shankar but the son will generally naturally be a kshatriya because they’ll take on the mood of the mother but if there’s two degrees then you have a mix because the brahman if it’s two degrees it won’t work but if it’s reverse pratyuloma where the father’s a kshatriya mother’s a brahman then you actually get a mixed varna then you get a suta and so they may be you know in the highest level they may have brahmanical or they may be a kshatriya or they may be a chariot driver or they may be a you know a small-time hunter you know not a big time small time you know these are that what can what can what can happen because we even see even the nicely done like it was Barton he had a hundred sons or we should be about a hundred sons he had a hundred sons so of those hundred sons so he’s shut to his wife’s a kshatriya we don’t hear anything other than that but of that then eleven sons were paramahamsas you know so the Brahmins are beyond nine were shutters and no excuse me 11 were paramahamsas but basically you had most of them were remember how it worked but a only sorry we should day but you remember what was the breakdown of the kids remember there was 11 and 9 and then 80 okay so they were like emperors and that the others were just general shutters okay and then 11 were paramahamsas okay so you see is even from there you’ll get that the nine you gave it those are the Navi again okay so so here is the shatriya but they might get minimally you get shatriya and then they may be above that because of the quality of but generally you wouldn’t get below but when they’re mixed and you’ll always get lower when you mix the mixes then it gets worse like that so when the devotees say so Prabhupada what are we you know what part are we as well the mixes of mixes Suta can be be poet or you know a speaker like that but here I think Suta means son like that so there must be a difference in something in there what’s long and short or the kind of letters that are there so that’s a different thing that means son of but here Suta means like Suta Suta that are speaking the Koran’s so they’re good orators yes yes yeah bhakti is the is the full circle then within it it has the your activities because this body mind and words right so karmic deals with what the body right then then who’s the words the Gyanis and who’s the mind the yogis you know the stance of body mind and words so like the karmic the body is engaged in in the the activities and do it nicely but it’s for Krishna’s nice karmic yeah like the Gyani then one is renounced and one is seeker of knowledge but it’s for Krishna all right and like the yogi then the mind is fixed on Krishna does that make sense so so we say body minded words and includes the karmic Gyani and yogi so so that’s the thing it’s part of it’s not separate we make this separation we can study them separately so that it becomes clear but that’s why we see a meal is moving from one chapter to the next because the idea is it doesn’t stay separated because if you only means if you can only accommodate one then the point is is because it’s connected to Chris so the connecting the body to Krishna is still connected to Krishna even the mind and intelligence aren’t but it’s still perfect because once connected to Krishna right so now if you can connect two of that that’s better to connect all three that’s the best so you’re trying to connect body mind and words so so now you know what body means then you take that aspects of the karma the intelligence intake those that because the intelligence means when we say words that’s that’s the senses right so intelligent senses go together that means so from the Gyanis we’re we’re austere we’re renounced we have knowledge but the senses are engaged like the karmic but the senses are controlled like the yogi you understand so so you have all that aspect together they’re controlled right you know once once you know detached from sense enjoyment once renounced and so that means that the karma of performing gauging the senses the result is for Krishna so that means why there’s that’s why there’s no difficulty wherever one’s situated it’s whatever is comfortable right now for the person that’s what they should be doing then it works so that’s why you don’t see a discrimination you know in the Lord’s pastimes between those who are renounced those who be hostas those who are this it doesn’t it doesn’t matter you know Sagarbhauma Bhattacharya he was a grihasta you know Hari Das Thakur he was not you know I’m saying so but they’re all you know seen from that platform the great devotees you know Adwaita Charya was a grihasta Sri Das Thakur was a grihasta you know Nityananda you know hard to say what he is you know like that so that doesn’t matter it’s whatever is the best situation for your mentality that’s where you should be situated so that’s the thing if you know that these things to work Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakur writes in his commentary to verse 1 he performs actions prescribed by the scripture as inescapable duty karyam karma without expectation of results anashrita karma phalam is called a sannyasi since he renounces the results of his actions he’s called a yogi since his mind does not dwell on the enjoyment of objects of the senses a person who merely renounces duties such as the fire sacrifices is not called a sannyasi nor is the one who merely half closes his eyes without external bodily activity a kriya is called a yogi right so in other words the duty is inescapable means you can’t not do your duty because that is what’s prescribed for that nature so you do that but not expecting the results that’s sannyas so in other words sannyas is the standard of devotional activities right that’s the standard so but and so everybody can act on that platform no matter what their position whatever varna ashram they’re in but at least minimum if they don’t come to that mentality earlier at least then at the end of life when this sannyas then hopefully one will come to that mentality you understand so that’s mechanically at least there but actually by consciousness one can be sannyas right from the beginning like why was Prahlad Maharaj great right because he’s a sannyasi you understand his mentality is that but he’s a kid you know living in his house and going to his you know demon guru cool it’s like that so you know so you could say what’s so renounced about that but he didn’t do anything that wasn’t connected Krishna parikit Maharaj he was sannyas while he’s in the womb right like that you know saying so therefore the externals aren’t what’s important is that consciousness but at the same time the externals are important here as the as the acharya mentions is that karyam karma is inescapable duty so beyond the rules means you’re not doing it because you’re forced by the rules you’re absorbed in Krishna so you’re actually perfectly following the rules so if you’re able to do that service or not your service or your performance of duties is perfect right because it’s connected to Krishna well someone else they don’t do that particular karmic activity then there’s a fault in their their karma you understand but if it’s not in devotional platform then if one’s able to do it nice if one’s not able to do it still the point is is the real activity is devotion to Krishna so that’s the sonata and karma that’s the real duty is this this is making any sense here yes mentality and consciousness in this case mentality be based on consciousness they basically in application they would be non-different because you have a consciousness and from that you’re going to take your the variety of your your character and connect that to the consciousness so what particular aspect is manifesting that will be according to your mentality you know now you’re enthusiastic or now you’re very meditative or now you know but it’s all based on the consciousness of Krishna yes see the point is is someone can be a bona fide Brahman by guna and karma and not be a devotee no means in other words they they are following all the rules nicely they have the proper mentality they do everything but that’s you know that will be a lower level of Brahman then one who is seeking after Brahman you know on the higher level means directly looking for it that will be higher that’s only if what he’s doing is for that higher purpose I mean in other words you can have a karma Brahman and he’s a good Brahman but he’s interested in you know what facility he’ll get in the future so there has to be some element of nice karma because he’s doing the work and getting nothing now he’ll get in the future but it’s not it’s the nice karma is not on that and there’s you know so that means sacrifice involuntary giving up something for a higher purpose you know or first height for another person so for a demigod or like this but it’s not the ultimate sacrifice the ultimate means who you’re giving it up for it’s Krishna you know that makes sense and the results are not only just now for Krishna but in the future for Krishna well here’s now it’s not for himself but in the future it’ll be for himself so that’s why when devotees would sometimes too much criticize the Brahmins and promises no they’re they’re real promise you know and us is malicious aren’t in a position to criticize them you know because they are clean they are all these different things but the point is is what are we criticizing in a smarter his goals not right so we’re not criticizing that he follows Shastra that he takes his baths three times a day that he does all his Brahman karma that’s not our criticism our criticism is that he’s following all that and not understanding the purpose of the Shastra which is to know God that’s our complaint right and they’re doing it to go to the heavenly planets or whatever and for all that work they could go back to God head so we’ll say it’s a waste of time so we’re not attacking the the culture we’re attacking the philosophy does that make sense so in other words the consciousness that’s that’s the problem like that but the mentality may be very dutiful and good Brahman so there may be much to learn like Chanakya is not known of as a devotee right but the point is is his mentality of a Brahman it is nature’s a Brahman that’s worth learning from you know especially if you’re dealing the realm of administration like that then there’s a lot to gain but even if not there’s still something to gain yes yes so the consciousness is to enjoy but the mentality is through piety so therefore he’s a Brahman right you know the consciousness is to enjoy the mentality is sinful so therefore you know he may be doing something else yes because my peripheral vision doesn’t seem to be as as developed as we never how you said we never spent much time in pubs so that’s it that’s it yes so we’re trying to bring the consciousness from you know self-centered to extended to religious to to the you know pursuit of liberation to transcend to actual how you say devotional service but the point is because devotional service includes everything else we don’t have to go through Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha then Bhakti we can just go directly to Bhakti right but the point is is the whole cultural process starts with Dharma right Artha and Kama and Moksha are based on Dharma so therefore means we’re cultivating the Anandamoy consciousness the Krishna consciousness at the same time performing our duties according to Dharma because Dharma means you’re going to engage your nature in the Lord’s service that is Sanatana Dharma so how do you define what’s your Dharma so that’s what the scriptures give otherwise then we have to speculate and make up our own Dharma no but the ultimate point is is that it’s service to Krishna that’s why sometimes things may go out of whack you know like there was I think it was Tiruvannamala was wrote the Prabhupada but you know as a sannyasi is so difficult you know you know having to worry about all the money at the temple and this and that because I think he was in Hong Kong or he was he would always or Korea he’d always end up he he had the inclination to take up preaching in out-of-the-way areas that no one was doing so he always ended up basically in the Orient or something and so he’s you know complaining sannyasi has to do all this competitive money because you know you got this a new project you don’t have anybody you know so you have to do it yourself and promises no it says daily I’m going to the bank I’m doing all these things what’s the problem because you’re doing it for Krishna you know so the essential element is that you know the sannyas is the preaching element you know that you don’t have any encumbrances other than preaching they’re saying the grasta he has to deal with money but then the family’s involved in everything so that’s encumbrances so that’s there but so it’s not the property with money the money is it’s for Krishna then it’s not a problem it just lets the grasta could see all everything he has a connection to Krishna be sannyas so the sannyasi can also be involved in dealing with money you know but that’s not as dry dealing with money right that’s just something he does in the performance of the students he has to preach and so you need money so therefore you have to use a bank so there will be these elements that don’t quite look right so devotees make the mistake oh see they’ve changed the rules so we can change anything we like no the details have been adjusted but the principle never changes so the principle of sannyas this principle sannyas is supposed to be indifference so if he has money or doesn’t have money that’s not going to bother he has money spends it for Krishna it doesn’t have money then he doesn’t you know saying but agree hosta he can’t be indifferent you know he has to take care of the family so he has to have that money you know saying he’s dealing with the family they don’t eat nice and they’re not comfortable then we don’t find her all this so sannyasi eats nice doesn’t eat nice doesn’t matter it’s a nice place to stay or not right but if you have you know say let’s say you want to go to Delhi right you go down to the train station you know you buy just a ticket you have no reservation you hop on the train right you know and if you can get something there great if not you know you end up sleeping in front of the bathroom like that okay now if you had your family with you could you do that no that means you have to beforehand have all the things booked all this and that all the arranged this arranged for Prasad this so you have to do it that’s just the way it works you know listen yes it doesn’t happen you mean so this time he’s you know sleeping on the floor you know outside the bathroom the next time you know they’re flying him you know to wherever it is and picking up with the car it doesn’t matter you understand so indifference is the main thing well the grihastha then is engaging the senses so that means then he’s seeing all this is this is duties how you have to deal with the family this is how Christian wants it done so he’s doing it so he’s engaging the senses but he can do it to police Krishna the results not for him so he’s not doing it so that now the wife will be very happy and so now then you know there’ll be more how you say intimate interaction like that so it’s a matter of it’s just you know this is what he’s supposed to do right does that make sense but it doesn’t mean it’s it’s cold because it has to be it has to be you know emotionally sincere right now otherwise ladies are very sensitive to I say external duties with no you know in other words if the goon and karma don’t match they know it does that make sense so so therefore that’s engaging the senses in the fire of the senses well the other one is not worried about either controlling the senses or being indifferent to whatever it is the point is this what do you mean act as though he’s not different but why is he doing the activities yes so it’s his duties so he’s doing it so therefore it won’t look that way right means the guy sits down at dinner his wife just cooked and that so can he be renounced yeah not worry about sense gratification he has to eat and yeah speak about it what way yeah and so but to speak about it in a nice way means he would have had to have first enjoyed it so that means he has to engage the senses in a sense so it has to be done but he’s doing it not because he wants to eat nice things because this is what you’re supposed to do like that and that won’t be a problem because one will say oh well that would be dry no it’ll only be dry if one doesn’t understand the duties and what one’s doing actually and so in other words if it’s if it’s if it’s only sense gratification then the woman will appreciate it but she’ll be in control right so then she’ll be because of that right because the point is the woman always wants to be endeavoring for control but never actually get it you know like that so she has the control of the situation but she knows ultimately she doesn’t have it because it’s something to strive for so if the guy is simply involved because of the senses then she is in control it loses interest real fast it gets boring very fast now let’s say he’s trying to just do it but he doesn’t have the right mentality then she’s not going to be satisfied because then it will be pretending so then if he’s pretending then he may be pretending in everything so what is real in the relationship do they actually even have a relationship like this you can have a total nuclear meltdown in three nanoseconds sorry so then but then you have then we have this third level where he is doing it because it’s the duties as for Krishna and that that is so sincerely is taking care of these devotees means that the Jiva that’s in the in the form of his wife is conditioned to think she’s a wife and so he’s taking care as a wife that she’s nicely taking care of according to how Krishna does because she actually belongs to Krishna right because in the wedding it says this girl belongs to Vishnu right so he’s taking care very nicely but he’s doing everything he’s actually tasting he’s actually appreciating but at the same time is because of that element of sannyas and it has the thing of its full emotion full everything but at the same time there’s something beyond you understand so then that makes it where the woman has that element of the control but at the same time is there something more that leaves it where then there’s always an interest yes it’s a grihastha but we’re talking about sannyas meaning that the result is for Krishna not for himself that’s what we’re talking about means it’s the consciousness of sannyas the mentality of sannyas but he’s still properly performing his grihastha duties so he’s a good grihastha but that will keep then the woman will be the most attracted because it’s always something new fresh is something she can’t grasp yes yes means yes spiritually means it’s consciousness is that of sannyas but at the same time as the mentality it matches perfectly the the duties so the guna and karma is correct but the consciousness is sannyas okay so that will be the most attractive to the room because they have control and they’re being appreciated for it but at the same time they don’t so they know it’s only out of the that I say that kindness that it’s there it’s out of consideration that that control is there so then they’ll feel the most comfortable on one level but they know that something’s beyond so that will inspire them towards the spiritual because the material is perfectly taken care of so what’s what’s what’s what’s the what’s the what’s the beyond means that’s the that’s the actual masculine feminine dynamic so that’s where saying is devotees mistake is that oh no then you have to be very renounced and that you know you just eat don’t say anything if you did that’s why I didn’t tell your wife it was good or to taste it all this so that’s the mistake because that is the impersonalism that you think that spiritual means the opposite so we can’t understand is the guy can there eat the meal appreciated tell his wife how great it is and sincerely mean it at the same time as he’s doing all that not for his wife not for himself but for Krishna you know I’m saying you know I mean the wife benefits because she’s taken care of as her condition nature as a woman is taken care of but at the same time as the consideration of spiritual so that’s really attending to the real needs of himself his wife that’s a different level so well we’re that’s why you to steer in this and that there’s no consider it no one will say oh he’s a he’s a be shy you know but it’s but it’s he’s involved in all these different activity but that’s the consciousness of Sunni us so therefore he’s a perfect gṛhastha and perfect King in a sense of that’s what we’re talking about but people are you
