Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #3

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #3

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SAHANAM BHUNAKTU SAHABHIR YANGAD AVAHAI TEJASVI NAMADI TAMASTO MAMID VISHAVAHAI OM SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI VIH OM JAYA SHRI KRISHNA CHAITANYA BRAHMA NITYANANDA SHRI ADVAITHA VEDADHARA SHIVA SARE GAURAVATYA BRINDHA HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA OK.

So we have the result of understanding Bhagavad -gita.

At the end of Bhagavad-gita, Arjuna says, karisye vacanam tava, I shall act according to your word. Right?

B. Like Arjuna, if we properly utilize the instructions of Bhagavad-gita, then our whole life becomes purified, and ultimately we’ll be able to reach the destination which is beyond this material sky. Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhamma paramam mama.

So the idea is that we’re able to follow the instructions. That means that it has worked out properly. When one is able to see the importance of these instructions, like here, the process of understanding, so one is willing to accept that, one sees the importance of it. So if that happens, then you can get the result.

So this aspect of being able to surrender to Krsna and accept the instructions, then we see becomes extremely important. Difficulty comes as if we think that it’s going to work outside of that. Right? We’re going to somehow or another get Krsna consciousness without being conscious of Krsna, without being conscious of His instructions. Because the point is, instructions is what we can actually be conscious of, that we can always be conscious of. Right? Whether we remember Krsna’s pastimes all the time or not, that’s another thing. If we can do that, great. But the tendency most likely is going to be that that is not going to come as consistently. Right? If we’re always reading the pastimes, always discussing, yes, we’ll get that. But that means is why would we do that in the first place? Because we’re convinced that we are servants of Krsna. Right? So that’s Arjuna’s point, is that, I surrender to your instructions.

Right? So this acceptance of the instructions of what’s given in guru-sadhu and sastra, right, this then becomes what we’re trying to do. If this happens, then it works very nicely. If this doesn’t happen, then it’s a problem.

Right? Because then, if you don’t follow Krsna’s instructions, what are Krsna’s instructions? Are they for something else other than to obtain Krsna? No, Krsna’s telling us how to obtain Him. And so, as God, He should know. Right? And as God, He’s beyond anything that we can come up with. So unless we follow His instructions, we’re not going to get to Him. Right? It’s not that we can say, oh, well, I’m more clever and I’ll figure out my own way. No, we’re very small. Right? We’re trying to obtain Krsna. We’re surrounded by Krsna. Everything that we’re in contact with is Krsna’s. But we can’t see Krsna. That’s the point. So He only allows you to see Him if that devotion is there.

Right? So that’s the point. Intellectually, yes, you can understand the Brahman platform. You can even see Paramatma. But to know Him as a person, to serve Him as a person, that requires devotion. So that devotion then means what is pleasing to the person is what you do. So Krsna’s instruction is what is pleasing to Him. Because what the scriptures state is how He lives. He lives according to the lifestyle given in the scriptures. God doesn’t live in a different way. Right? Just like, let’s say, the scriptures, for example, the scriptures say that we should go to Mangalarthi. Right? OK. Now, think about it. Now, if God also didn’t go to Mangalarthi, how would you have Mangalarthi?

You understand?

Right? How would you have Darshanarthi if He wasn’t there?

Does this make sense?

So the whole point is that He follows the scriptures. We just look at it from our side. But the point is, is it’s what He does. He gets up in the morning. Then the first thing when He gets up, then the devotees can see. Right? The devotees want to see Krsna. So that’s the first opportunity you can see Him. You can’t see Him when He’s asleep. After He wakes up, then you can see Him. So that’s the first opportunity. Then He’s going to take His bath, get dressed and all that. So some can see Him at that time, the bhajaris and that, but most can’t. So after He’s dressed and all that, then He can come out, you can see Him again. So that’s why then that’s the second celebration.

Right? Does it make sense? So this is what’s going on in the whole day is that Krsna is doing these different activities. Then Krsna eats lunch. Right? Why is there a concept called lunch? Is there lunch for a cow?

Or a horse or a dog, an elephant?

Why? Because they eat all day. That’s all they do is eat. The whole day is lunch. So then He wouldn’t call it lunch, because lunch means something around noontime. Right? If it’s earlier, it’s breakfast, and if it’s night. So I’m not sure what you call, put breakfast, lunch and dinner together into one word, and that way you get what the animals are doing. Right? Does that make sense? So He eats at that time. That’s why it’s called lunch.

You understand? He goes to bed in the evening. That’s why it’s sayanarti, because He’s going to take rest then. So that’s the last time you can see Him before He takes rest. Does it make sense? So the point is, is Krsna follows what’s in the sastra. So sastra is simply describing His, who He is, what His lifestyle is, who are the devotees, what’s His relationship with the devotees, how they interact.

You understand? So that’s just what that, and then you have the whole thing of, that’s the natural situation, but there’s also creation.

Because jivas tend to like, you know, how do you say, there are some jivas who tend to like to not be aware of those, and take part in those pastimes. So then they come to the material creation, and then the scriptures will define how the creation works, so that you can see it in relationship to the Lord. Since we’re so interested in the material creation, so the material creation is described in its connection with the Lord. So you can see that what we’re interested in already is God. It’s already connected to Krsna.

Does that make sense? So that’s the idea. Then, what is distracting us, then still becomes a medium for being Krsna conscious.

So then that’s the benefit. If you utilize the instructions of Gita, like Arjuna, then you can reach that destination beyond the material world. Because the material world is for those who do not know God. You know God, then you go beyond the material world.

But it says that destination, Brahman is not a destination.

Does that make sense? You know, the train doesn’t stop in between the two cities. It’s not a destination. You go from one city to another. So you go from one, how do you say, manifestation to another. You don’t stop in between. Why? Because there’s nothing in between. That’s why it’s called Brahman.

See, all the planets in the material world have the inconveniences of birth, death, old age and disease. The abode of Krsna has no such flaws, and therefore the Bhagavad-gita recommends that one must reach this kingdom of the Supreme, the Sanatana-dhama.

Having once attained this kingdom, the living entity does not return to the material world. Of this, the Lord says, there is no doubt. So now the material world, there’s a problem. Because the soul being eternal, the soul being naturally full of knowledge and acting according to that knowledge, and the soul being naturally happy and having the capacity to appreciate and increase in this happiness, then having has a problem in a place where everything is the exact opposite of that.

Everything is temporary.

Everyone’s in ignorance. Even you say, oh, we have so much scientific knowledge, but does that scientific knowledge show you God?

No. It means you could say on one level you’re top scientist, you know, the guy in the wheelchair.

Then he just came out with, just a few, like a month ago or six weeks, no, yeah, like a month ago, he’s making the statement that according to the data that they have, there’s no need of considering that God is necessary.

Because his point is, you know, mathematics takes care of everything. You don’t need a God for all this. So here your top scientist is saying there’s no need of God. So how will that science help you understand God? How will that academy that nurtures this science ever show you God? So that’s the problem is we will say it’s knowledge, but it isn’t actually knowledge. Because knowledge means seeing things in relationship to the Lord. No one could say, oh, that’s sentiment. But no, this is science. This is real science because everything being the Lord’s creation, there isn’t anything that’s not connected to Him. Right? There’s nothing that’s not connected to Him. So if everything is connected to the Lord, then it’s a matter of how, what is your position in interacting with that which is connected to the Lord?

Right?

Does this make sense? That’s real science. These other things are just mechanics of what’s going on. Right? Does that make sense? So that’s side things. You know what I’m saying? Like, you know, you have cooking. And so there’s a science of how you’ll combine the different things, how they’re affected by the heat. And because of this, how they will combine and make the different flavors. Right? No? That’s the real essence of what’s going on. Someone who understands this understands cooking. But there’s also, you know, facts of you can tell the difference between a cumin seed and an anise seed. Right? They both are kind of the same shape, have little lines on them. Right? And have some brown color in them. Right? But one’s a little bigger, one’s a little smaller, one’s more green, one’s less green. So that, yes, there is that kind of a thing. So that’s all modern science is doing, is telling you the difference in the environment.

Right? And different things that you can do with the environment to get different results in the environment. But they are unable to explain why that’s there. Where does the energy come from to do that?

Right? Because nothing happens without energy.

Right? So where does this energy come from? That they can’t explain. Right? You know, you can’t get something out of nothing. But they brace the whole premise of their philosophy on that, that out of nothing came something that’s really foolish.

Right? And by chance. So therefore, it actually is, you know, very, how do you say, according to their theory, would be quite a substantial possibility of the, you know, the famous one you always hear if you took a million monkeys and put them in front of a, you know, a computer and they were pushing buttons all day, that, you know, looking at one of them, you might find that it taped, typed out, you know, something from Shakespeare, you know, like that. So it is possible according to their philosophy. So technically, you don’t even need the scientists. All you need is a bunch of monkeys. And one of the days, somebody is going to come up with E equals MC squared. Right? You know, somebody is going to come up with it just by chance. So the difficulty comes is that, where does it come? They can’t explain the body functions because there is energy inside. Right? You know, they’ll just say, oh, because of the food. But why is it that a dead body you can bring all the food you like and still nothing happens? Right? So there’s something that’s powering. They can’t understand this. This is the science. The other things are detailed just on how you make things work. Because in the spiritual world, they know the arts and sciences. Right? But they’re all in connection to Krishna. But more than that, they don’t have to worry about, why do you have to worry about? Yoga Maya is taking care of it. It’s going to go on anyway. Whether you understand, you know, the technicality of the clouds or not, the clouds are going to come and go as they please. It doesn’t matter if you know or not. You know, there’s still going to be an earthquake. There’s still going to be this and that. The wind still blows. The bugs still bite you. Right? It doesn’t matter what you know.

Right? So the point is, is that how, what are you going to do in the environments that you’re in? That’s the important thing. What will you do in that environment?

So by understanding the environment, then there is some meaning. That’s the science that you need to know. Then these other little details are there, how you’ll use that environment in connection with the Lord. Because that’s where we’re looking for, you know, the eternal situation. That’s God. Right? We’re looking for knowledge and activities, but that’s all coming from Krishna. Right? We’re looking for results of happiness. The only eternal happiness is in connection with the Lord.

Right? Does this make sense?

So, yeah.

So therefore all this birth, death, old age and disease, this temporariness, this is a problem for the living entity. And he’s saying all the planets are like this. All of them. There’s no planet that’s not like this. Just some it’s a little bit more extreme and some it’s a little less extreme. But it’s still there.

Right? A moment where you’re unhappy seems like a long time. So it doesn’t matter of, okay, well you live longer, still in comparison with eternity. Because the higher the planets you go, the more aware you are of, you know, how you say, the eternal element. So therefore it’s not that that increased life span seems to you any longer.

Does that make sense? So Lord Brahma, it’s a hundred years.

That’s his perception, his experience. Because he’s more aware of the eternal.

Right? It’s the same here. So that temporariness is still a problem.

So that’s, yeah.

The eternal Jiva, D, the eternal Jiva has an eternal relationship with the eternal Lord in that eternal spiritual sky. So one is establishing that that’s where the relationship is, because everything that we have here is actually related to the Lord. We’ll take it that it’s related to everything else, which is fine. But the problem is, is that because of this, we don’t see the Lord. When we understand that everything that we’re dealing with, that we have a relationship with, that we value, what we’re valuing is Krishna, then we understand it’s the real relationship with Him. And then we have eternal relationship with other living entities based on this principle. That’s what’s in connection with Him. Then you have eternal relationships with other devotees.

But otherwise, here we have relationships, though it’s technically with Krishna, the potencies, but we’re seeing the external forms, the bodies, the situations. So bodies and situations are temporary. So our relationships with everybody in the material sphere is temporary.

Right? So does that make sense? Because one might feel, well, if we look at it that, you know, everything’s in connection to Krishna, we’ll lose that relationship with that individual that we’re relating with. No, one won’t lose that relationship. One may lose that specific, how do you say, in the long term, that specific relationship, you know, like, you know, parents and child or friends like this, that may be lost, because it’s lost with the body, because what you’re friends with or what you have a relationship with is the body. But in the spiritual world, then those same living entities will be there, whatever is their natural position or relationship to Krishna, will have a relationship with them based on that. And that’s eternal.

Right? So one doesn’t have to worry that if one sees that connection to Krishna, one loses anything. Right? That’s why all these things are being said, is that there may be the anxiety that something will be lost.

Does that make sense? Something will be lost. So there’s an anxiety. But here it’s being established that there is no need of anxiety.

Because based on this, you will have a relationship with the Supreme Lord. So the point is this here, the goal is establishing that relationship.

So that’s a benefit.

But, and at the same time is that having been gained will be eternal. It won’t be like here. Things are temporary. Because anything you gain moves back to the position of sambandha, relationship.

Aniruddha moves back to prajumna.

Means from prajumna, you get, expands to aniruddha, and then when the results are gained, that moves back to prajumna.

Right? So, but the material world, as you get a goal, it moves back to there. It’s your environment, it’s your relationship, but it’s temporary. So then as it, as with time, that will disappear. But Krsna having been obtained, there’s no anxiety because when that moves back to the position of relationship, that relationship is eternal. Right? Therefore it’s making this point. Eternal relationship with the eternal Lord, and that is eternal spiritual sky. So the environment is eternal. The jiva is eternal, God’s eternal, the environment’s eternal. And the relationship is eternal. So that means if that’s all there, and the individuals are people, that means then eternally there’ll be activities that generate happiness.

Right? So the jiva doesn’t have to worry that I’m moving from this situation where I’m getting something to an unknown. No, you’re moving to a situation where you get more. So that’s why the comparison between devotional activities and the spiritual. If you’re not absorbed in the devotional, how will you know what they are? Right? Material, that we’ve been doing a long time, so that’s not the hard part. The difficulty is the spiritual experience. So that happens when we have, like Arjuna, we’re willing to follow the instructions because then it will be spiritual. We don’t follow the instruction, it won’t be spiritual, and we won’t get the experience.

He services the constant companion of the living being, and rendering service to the Supreme Personality, Godhead, is the eternal religion, sanatantarma.

So, as Prabhupada explains, is that service, that’s eternally what the living entity does. One may complain about that, you’ll sit back and enjoy, but how can one sit back and enjoy if there’s no service?

Right? Means, let us say you have a glass, and it’s filled full of some nice drink. When do you experience the drink?

While it’s sitting there on the table? I mean, you can, but if it’s sitting on the table, there is some experience, so what’s the experience of?

Your desire, or the excitement about, you get to drink this drink and get an experience from it. You have a relationship with this drink, it’s in front of you, it’s not in front of the guy next to you, that’s his drink, this is your drink. At least if you pick it up and drink it, if you leave it long enough, the guy next to you might also pick up yours and drink it. I had that happen. Not so much the drink, because it was in the Calcutta temple they used to give. Life members would come and they’d bring these big pots of sweets like that, so everyone would get sweets, because that was very, how do you say, in an environment with a bunch of other wild brahmacharis, but at the same time trying to follow the tradition of you eat sweets last, then sometimes this was detrimental, because it would be sitting on my plate and the other devotee next to me would finish, and then he’d come and squat down in front of me, because he’d finished and that, and he’s talking to me and all that. When he’s gotten completely distracted, he reaches over and grabs my sweet and pops it in his mouth and walks off. So, that’s the material world, even though it’s supposedly yours still.

It’s just a matter of how long the temporariness is or short of how long it’s yours.

So, service then has to be rendered.

Okay, we were discussing that. Now, when does the experience actually start?

Yes, when the senses contact the sense objects. So, that means there’s activity going on, and then you go, this is nice, and put it down, then you’re thinking about how nice it is, but are you actually directly experiencing it? No, because you’ve stopped the activity. You understand? So, the senses, in the sense, that means for there to be an experience, there must be activity. That’s why then in sambandha, abhidheya, and prayojana, philosophically we emphasize sambandha, right? But in reality, in practice, you emphasize abhidheya. Practice means abhidheya. You’re taking the knowledge of sambandha and applying it. Then you’re getting the result. But because the result we’re not doing for ourselves to please Krishna, the emphasis is not there either. So, it’s always on activity. Does that make sense? Yes. You said that philosophically we emphasize sambandha. Yes. What does that mean? Because we’re emphasizing who we are, who God is, what’s the material world, what’s the spiritual world, you know, what are eternal relationships, what are temporary relationships, right? So, we’re defining what is the situation or the facts of, you know, the situation of the living entity who’s conditioned and the situation of the living entity who’s not.

To convince us to take part in the process, right? Knowledge is there because knowledge is useless unless it’s applied. And you can’t do something without knowledge, right? You can’t do something without knowledge. So, therefore, you’re going to, how do you say, require knowledge to perform activity, right? But it’s only through activity that you get the result. So, with proper knowledge you perform activity, then you get the result. So, knowledge and activity combined, that’s the cittapotency, right? So, that’s actually what abhidheya is discussing. That’s the difficulty. Some without proper knowledge, or let’s say full enough knowledge, they perform activities. But because they’re performing the activities, their drive is not the knowledge, it will be sentiment, which is fine as long as that sentiment is firm. If that sentiment’s not firm, then you require knowledge to make it, right? So, somebody can get distracted because it’s just sentiment. But someone else has knowledge, but they don’t perform any activity, they get no result. So, how will they taste, right? We say, someone will say, no, but by my intelligence I can understand. But how you understand if you don’t experience, right? You have that glass of drink and you don’t taste it. You simply analyze it. Will you ever understand the taste? No, but that’s what the modern scientist does and claims that I understand the taste by never tasting, right? They’ll analyze everything, take it out, put it in their litmus paper, ooh, a little sour, you know, and do all these things like that. So, so many things like this, but they still don’t know what’s what. They don’t even know what sour is, but they’ll give some chemical name to it, some special fancy name. You understand? Yes? What do you mean?

Okay, if there’s sentiment, would it just be for yourself? If it’s quite weak, yes.

A little bit less weak than it could be for the benefit of others.

Yes, but it could be, what I’m saying, if it’s firm, then that sentiment is, oh, this is order of guru, or it’s doing something to please Krishna, or, you know, like this. Because ultimately then the residents of Vrindavan, something, okay? Okay, okay. The residents of Vrindavan, then their sentiment is fully to please Krishna, right? So there’s no problem. So what we’re saying is, sentiment’s ultimately what you’re trying to get to, but you’re trying to get to this ultimate sentiment, right? So what we’re talking about is that there may be that material sentiment of something higher, so it’s mixed. You know what I’m saying? In other words, one knows that it’s better to do something for someone else than for yourself, right? And if you’re convinced, okay, God’s the Supreme Self, so doing something for him. So that will be spiritual. You’ll have that sentiment, you’ll perform the activity. The activity is spiritual. But the difficulty, the weakness, the strength will be is that there’s sentiment and, you know how you say, there’s that feelings and desire to do something for someone else’s benefit. So you’re going to get, that will be the strength of it, right? As opposed to someone who’s just intellectually looking at it. Weakness will be is that one’s general basic motivation may be based on the habit of doing something good for other people, right? So it’s a benefit in that you do things for other people, so you’re always sacrificing for others, that therefore you can also sacrifice for the devotees and for God. So that’s nicely dovetailing that. But ultimately at some point it has to come that you understand why this is done and you’re doing this actually just to please Krishna. And it’s not because you’re a good person that you do this. Yes, that’s where the origin of it changes, right? The activity won’t change, but the origin of it will change. So it has that subtle difference between where it’s that material, that material like you could say motivation. It’s not necessarily motivated for yourself. It means what drives the action. You know what I’m saying? So the tendency that, because your modern religions and all that and modern cultures only preach pranamoy, for the greater benefit, benefit of others. But it’s not specifically spiritual.

You know what I’m saying? Means it’s not actually spiritual at all, but whatever. So that’s the whole idea. It’s drive is simply the material sentiment, the material flavor. That’s what’s trying to be established. But one is very willing to do that for whatever at the time you feel is the highest purpose. But because it’s based on just doing something for others, that’s the basis. You couldn’t be distracted and do something for somebody else because it’s your principles. I do something for other rather than I serve God, right? So what’s being missed here is that service to others is the basic thing is service. That’s what we’re trying to get to is that service is actually what’s happening, is that we’ll say, oh, I am the controller and enjoyer of this drink. But actually you can only serve the process of the sense and the sense object interacting, right? Because the sense is only perceiving facts, right? The sense object is a reservoir of a variety of facts, and your sense is able to only perceive certain facts of this, so many facts of this variety, right? So the tongue can only taste, right? And because it’s skin, it can also tell temperature or texture, right? But the tongue can’t tell what color it is, right?

It can’t tell the smell of it, you understand? It can’t tell what it hears, what it sounds like.

That’s all other senses. So that means, but that drink does have a color, does have a smell, right? It does have these other aspects. So your sense is only able to draw that one thing from it, right? So if you look at the principle of rasa, then which is the bigger field and which is the smaller field, the asraya or the visaya?

The visaya, right? The visaya is a variety of qualities, and the asraya is who is interested in interacting based on specific qualities, right? So the tongue is the asraya of taste, which can be gained from the drink, you know what I’m saying? The drink could do something else, is that you’re sitting there and the other person says something that you don’t like, you could pick it up and throw it in their face. So it could be an emotional or a political statement, nothing to do with taste. And you’re saying so many things could be done with that.

Does that make sense? So like that is that, so the tongue draws that from, so it’s the asraya. So the visaya or the enjoyer is what? The drink.

The drink’s the enjoyer, the tongue is the enjoyed.

And so what can we do? We’re not the enjoyed, so all we can do is serve the enjoyer and enjoyed in their interaction. So we can arrange that the enjoyer and enjoyed come together in their natural pastime.

Does that make sense? So in any case, scientifically, we are servant in anything.

There’s no such thing as anything else other than that, like that. So the jiva is servant. It doesn’t matter what his situation is. You have to, he always serves. It’s just the nature. The jiva, that’s his position.

And so the Lord’s potency is serving him. So we can assist the Lord’s potency. That’s our position. So only God is the enjoyer. His creation is the enjoyed. So we can serve that creation in their service to Krishna.

Does that make sense? So that’s the point, is the jiva is always service. So that’s the constant companion. The jiva’s there, so service is what he can do. Yes?

But is it the tongue? What is the tongue doing? The tongue is doing what? It simply tells you that it’s sour, it’s sweet, or it’s, you know, that it’s hot or whatever it is. But what defines, how do you define that that’s happiness? Or what experience do you get from that? By the mind. So it’s actually the mind that is supposedly enjoying. It’s not the sense. The sense simply tells what’s there. In other words, the sense simply identifies facts. That’s why modern science, because the only thing that they have to work with is dead matter and their senses. So all they can find out is facts.

Does that make sense? They can’t find out anything else. So these things have experienced this, that, it doesn’t mean anything to them. Right? You know, the quantumist, you know, he sits there and he figures out some aspect of his formula or sees something in his, what do you call it, microscope or the other one, telescope, you know, like that. He’s very happy. He thinks something very special. So the experience is there, but somehow they can’t calculate that in as part of the process.

So they’re blind. They’re so smart. They’re blind. They’re like, you could say in one sense, they’re kind of like, you know, a very, well, I guess everybody’s like that, but a very extreme form of quite workable autism.

Does that make sense? Because autism means you can do something very expertly, but other things you just can’t. You don’t even know they’re there. Like autistic people can’t understand feelings or things like this. They only know by symptoms. You know, when somebody does, you know, one facial expression, that means this and this means that. So when this is there, they mean they have this feeling. So therefore, you can deal in this way and that. So by practice, they can learn. Yes?

Between. Ah, OK. Yeah, because it’s more you just see the mechanics of it. Yeah, because generally you see those autistic. There’s always something mathematical that’s there.

Interesting.

OK.

It’s interesting.

Yes. Can you explain how is it that connecting Jiva assistive connection of the Vishaya and Ashraya sense object and the sense is actually Krishna the enjoyer of his energy or his creation?

I mean, what did you see connected? I mean, because we understand that Krishna is the only enjoyer of his creation. So we are assisting drinking the juice. Let’s take this example. So this act of connecting the juice and the sense of how in this way we are serving Krishna in his enjoyment of his creation.

The.

Because the see the taste, what is it that you’re looking for when you drink a drink? What are you looking for? You pick it up and there’s no taste. Are you going to be satisfied? No. OK. So then taste is Krishna. That’s the quality. Right. Because that’s the Brahman level of understanding. He’s the quality.

So therefore, as taste. Right. Then there are the forms that it can take.

Right. So here in this case is juice and that taste can be experienced by the contact of the tongue with the juice. Right. So that means taste is Krishna and the juice and the tongue and the process of connecting them. Right. So the need of the glass, the need of the hand, you know, the need of the process to put them together. That’s all Krishna’s energy. Right. So we’re assisting in him interacting with his energy. Does that make sense? So that’s the tattva of it. That specifically is rasa. Then taste is within the drink. So therefore, that will be the manifestation. And then the sense will be there because then you can, you know, personally see it. But at the same time is as far as the the tattva of what’s happening, then the taste is Krishna and all the other forms and activities. That’s his energy. If we are recognizing something as Vishaya, it is only due to rasa?

That’s where you notice it, because Vishaya is is a definition of Vibhava within rasa.

You know what I’m saying? It’s just like if you’re identifying numbers, you’re working within mathematics.

You know what I’m saying? If I identify color, then it’s not mathematics. I’m talking about something else. Let’s say art.

You know what I’m saying? So those definitions are used in relationship to rasa.

You know what I’m saying? This is what we’re generally seeing. Who’s the enjoyer? Who’s the enjoy?

Right? So that will determine how you interact.

Does that make sense? So now, does the drink have a taste no matter where it is, where it’s situated?

Okay. But now, when only can the taste be appreciated?

Yeah, when the sense object contacts it. So that means that the appreciation of the rasa, even though the drink is inherently has the rasa, contains it, can only be appreciated when it’s in contact with the sense object or with the ashram.

Does that make sense? So that means you could say is yes, the sense, the Vishaya or the sense itself has to be connected with the sense object. So its connection is there. So there’s restriction, right? Because it only interacts with that. Because you interact with something else, you won’t get the taste.

Does that make sense?

But the Vishaya then has to be according to the ashram.

Means according to the situation in the ashram. Like how much drink can you apply onto the ashram?

Bring one truck and open the back of the truck and say how much of it will you be able to taste? If I pour a bucket of juice, you have your mouth open, I pour a bucket of juice over your head, how much can you taste?

You’ll get 100 grams or something in your mouth. So out of that whole bucket, you’ll have only tasted 100 grams, even though there may be 10 liters there. But now if it’s carefully given, you could drink the whole bucket.

Right?

He agrees.

Now this is a brahmacharya.

Does this make sense? Okay. So now how does this, so that means you have to understand what is the ashraya, what’s the Vishaya, then you understand their relationship, how they interact.

Right? What is the method of interaction?

Right? Does that make sense? So just like you have the parent, okay? Now the parent, and then you have the child. So the child has how many relationships with the parent?

One. Yes. Means it is the parental rasa as the dependent. Right? But now that parent, how many rasas do they have in their life?

More. Right? So therefore, when the parent is with their friend, they draw friendship. When they’re with their spouse, it draws conjugal. Right? So with their own parent, it draws that rasa there, but them as the dependent. So that means all these various rasas are within that parent. But the child only draws parental rasa. Right? So, but for the child to experience the parental rasa, then the parent has to be interacting with the child in a way that the child is able to appreciate it. Does this make sense? Right? So that means there’s a restriction and there’s a service. So who’s in charge, the parent or the child? The parent. Who does all the service? The parent? Huh? The child? Is that a fact?

Is that how it works? He did all the service?

I withdraw my statement. You withdraw your statement. OK. Means there is the point that you’re trying to get the child to the point of rendering service.

Yes.

Then he starts to render service. Yes. Somehow before that, they don’t quite. The arrogance of youth seems to blind their ability.

Somehow it seems to work. At 30, you figure out your parents weren’t that weird. Right?

OK. So I mean, just in the basic thing, you know, who cooks the dinner, who runs around, who pays the bills? You know what I’m saying? Like that. So parent is cleaning. But in the position, according to Āśraya and Viśaya, the parent is in the position of the enjoyer.

You understand? This is where the problem lies. This is why we have to study so much Tattva. Because we think enjoyer means I sit back and do nothing.

Right? Isn’t that considered the ideal? You know, I’ll sit back and do. And people just spontaneously come forward and serve me all day. Right? But is that realistic?

Does anything happen without endeavor, without putting energy into it?

No. He buys one nice gift for the wife, brings it home. Then he thinks eternally she’ll respond and be happy. Right? No. Then it goes for some day. Then you have to get another one. You understand? So this idea. So is God doing anything? He doesn’t have to do anything, but is he doing something? And why is he doing it? Because he has to? As Ātmārāma, he’s sitting there and to keep himself as Ātmārāma, he has to do so much? No. He can be Ātmārāma and do nothing. Right? He is rasa. He is ananda. But to increase that rasa, what does he have to do? He has to interact. He has to make the endeavor. Kṛṣṇa makes this whole creation, does all these things, enters into everything just so that Jīva can interact with them.

So he’s doing things. So that’s the point. If you want to taste a drink, you have to make the endeavor and pick it up. You can say, what do you mean? It’s my drink. Why do I have to pick it up? Why can’t it pick it up? It’s in the jar. I’m the enjoyer of the drink. Why can’t it understand this? Why doesn’t it get into my mouth without me having to do all this work? Would that be realistic? People say you’re stupid.

So that’s the position, is that one has to see these things. So this is the touch that shows what’s going on. It puts position. Then one can actually have relationship and interact.

So all these things are going. So one’s in the position of parent, but ultimately parentness is what? Kṛṣṇa. And childness is Kṛṣṇa.

And so then their interaction and all that is Kṛṣṇa and His energies. So we can take part in that by being a proper child or being a proper parent. So we’re serving in that capacity.

Yes, we’re serving the principle. But it’s done through something observable, because that’s where the taste comes. The principle is just how it works. You know, the juice goes in the glass, not the glass goes in the juice. Right. Then you want to float the cup around. Yes. Then you put it that way. But if you want to drink it, that’s another thing.

Actually, some take the glass, drop it into the juice and then drink it. Right. But then there is another glass.

And the rule is that one glass has to be smaller than the other. Really try to drop a big glass into a small glass. So still the laws of nature still function. OK.

Does it make sense? So this is what’s divine. So service is the constant companion. That is what the jīva does. So that consciousness that they have, as we discussed before, everything’s consciousness.

This movement is movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What we’re trying to do is establish consciousness. You establish consciousness, everything works. There’s no consciousness, nothing functions. Right. So we’re trying to improve consciousness. So you do that by studying the philosophy, by association, by hearing the philosophy. Because if you adjust the environments, it makes it easier to apply the consciousness if one’s not so trained. Right. If one is trained, it’s more of an ideal environment. It’s less trouble. Right. By association, others have that consciousness. They’re doing the proper activities. So then you pick that up from them. The philosophy defines what’s there in the consciousness so that you can see what you should do, what you shouldn’t do.

Does it make sense? Yes.

Focus.

Yeah. But still means if you if you if your goal is tasting it, then means so why are you in a hurry? What is your goal?

Tasting the drink or drinking the drink? Yeah, just to drink it as quick as possible because you have to run off. So you get your goal. So what are you focused on? On how quickly you can drink the drink. Right. So you get what you want, but there’s no taste. So because in the activity of drinking the drink, taste is a natural, I say, byproduct. You can say then that would mean if you want that to be included, you have to focus on that because focus means you understand. Means in other words, what’s being discussed here is first points. That is focus. Means you you know, you know that what the who you know, what the drink is, you know who you are. You know what your relation is. You know what is the purpose. You know that you drink the drink. It quenches your thirst like this. You know the process that you have to pick up, pick it up and and place it to your lips and drink it. Right. Does that make sense? You know all that. And you’re inspired to do that. And if you’re not inspired to do it, then you also aren’t going to be noticing or you won’t do it very well. You take a little bit, you put it down. So the process of drinking it won’t be efficient. The process of patient won’t be efficient. But if you understand this whole, you are inspired to do it. Then when you drink, then you’ll get the taste.

Does that make sense? But on the others, you know, OK, there’s me, there’s this drink and, you know, I’m supposed to drink the drink. But, you know, I only have, you know, 10 seconds because, you know, the car’s leaving and I got to be out there and I’m taking this drink because it will quench thirst or give some energy. Or, you know, if I don’t drink it, I’m going to get in trouble or whatever it is. Then you follow the process how to drink it quickly. You can’t drink it quicker than you can swallow it. But you won’t drink less than how much you can swallow at once. So you’re focused on that. And so it works. So it’s only by focus is something accomplished. Focus means you understand Sambandha, Abhidheyan, Prayojana and you’re inspired to apply it. That’s focus. Then that focus being applied, in other words, that knowledge and understanding with that enthusiasm when you apply it. Right. Because that inspiration, that’s your enthusiasm. That’s your activity. The other aspects of focus are your knowledge. So that knowledge and inspiration, that is Abhidheya. When that’s combined, practically, that’s Abhidheya.

And then because of that, then you’re going to get an observable result from the activity. And because of your inspiration in it, you’re going to get an experience.

Does that make sense? So the whole thing is it’s a it’s a it’s a it’s a very definable science. That’s why it’s made here. This is Sanatana Dharma. Right. Because this is eternal religion. This is what goes on. Right. So it’s beyond any any other kind of definition or designation. So when we’re thought of as a religion, then it’s not actually understanding what we do. Because we’re universal religion means we’re beyond just another religion. Because other religions can’t define what we’re talking about right now. Only Vaishnavism can explain this. Others cannot. They can explain part of it like like the Mayavadism can explain this up to the point of liberation. But they can’t understand why is that energy and energetic interacting? Why would it be there? Where where does this all come from? That they can’t explain at all. They don’t want to explain because their idea is to get make everything disappear anyway. So they don’t want to know. So they’re actually an ignorance. You understand? So that’s why it’s considered that there can there went to control. They want to be God. But ultimately, it’s based on ignorance. Therefore, Lord Shiva is the Acharya of that line. Right. Because he’s the lord of ignorance.

Does that make sense?

Yes. You mentioned in the example of a parent and a child. The one who is doing all of the work is doing all of the services the parent to for the child.

But also there are some sometimes the child will also be doing service to the parent. And in other relationships, for example, friendship, two people are both offering service to each other. But at the time of when you’re rendering the service, do you have to be conscious of what’s going on or not? Is it in relationship to the other person means as a child, whatever it is, child’s doing something for the parent. What does the child have to be conscious of? What he has to do, but in relationship to what?

Yeah. According to the parents. The point is, is a relationship when you are performing an activity. It has to be in relationship to who the activity is being performed for.

Yes. Now, let’s say you have to vacuum the rug, you know, as an example of the child has to do the service. OK, so in that vacuum of the rug, do you have to be conscious of the rug? Can you take your vacuum cleaner, let’s say, into the bathroom and, you know, put it in the toilet? And then your living room carpet will become clean.

No. So you have to get you and the vacuum cleaner have to be in the proximity of the rug. Right. And then how much pressure do you put on the vacuum cleaner? What if you put, you know, 500 kilos pressure onto the nozzle of the vacuum? Will you be able to vacuum the rug? No. What if you have such a light, delicate touch that the vacuum cleaner never actually touches the rug? OK. What happens if you don’t turn on the vacuum cleaner? What if you don’t plug in the vacuum cleaner?

What if the rug is rolled up and is in the attic and you’re down in the living room vacuuming the floor?

You understand? Yes. So according to the rug, you have to then take you and the paraphernalia have to interact with the rug on the rug’s terms. That’s my point is when in a relationship you’re dealing with someone else, you have to deal on their terms. People always want it to be on my terms. You know, what is it going to be? I know why it’s always about them. What about me? That’s not your business. You’re serving that. It’s always going to be what you do is always about the other person. Now, whether they interact and do something for you based on what you need, that’s another discussion. But it’s not a matter of you. Your service stops. That’s the way it is. So what determines who is the enjoyer and who is the enjoyer? What determines who is the enjoyer and who is the enjoyer depends upon what level you’re looking at. You know what I’m saying? Because you have, you know, smaller, you know, it’s like you have smaller and bigger circles. So what it is in it, it changes. So like in a relationship. So your parent and child. So the parent is taking care of the child. But at the same time, as within it, the child is doing something for the parent. Then he’s he’s the active one. So whoever is the active one, then they’re the one that has to be sensitive to how to deal. It can be connected to the one who’s passive.

Yeah. The passive one is the enjoyed like that. But at the same time, it’s there. Everything’s overlapping. It’s not clear. Cut. That’s the problem. People want to just clear cut little boxes in their relationships. You know, I’m always the enjoyer, but it doesn’t work like that because at some point you have to do things where you are the enjoyer. So when we’re told that Krishna is the only enjoyer. Yes. But also in his relationships. But it doesn’t mean that he means he is the Vishaya. But when he interacts with it, what what was given there going back is where you’re missing. I mean, where it’s not being fully appreciated is that I’m saying Krishna as the enjoyer, he is still rendering service.

So in other words, the process of enjoyment happens only through service. Now, it’s just a matter of who’s enjoying, who’s not. Now, in this, according to his question, this comes to the next stage. He was saying, well, how is it? Why is it we call the tongue the enjoyer? Because it seems to be getting more out of it. It’s like the glass of juice is going whoopee, you know, or something like that. Wow, this is great. You know, I don’t check out that tongue.

You know what I’m saying? Right. So the point is, is but in the process, the enjoyer is there. But who enjoys more?

The enjoyer or the enjoyed?

According to our philosophy, the enjoyed.

You know what I’m saying? But we have this idea is I will be the enjoyer. I’ll do nothing and I’ll get all the benefit and no one else necessarily needs to get it. These are all very major philosophical misunderstandings and they never work. Why? Because God didn’t create it like that. You can think that’s the way it should be. You want it to be that way. It doesn’t matter. You can start a blog. Millions of people are on it. Start your own television show. It doesn’t matter. It still doesn’t change the modes of nature. They won’t change. You know what I’m saying? So the point is, is on both sides, service is there. You know what I’m saying? So it means, in other words, the enjoyed has to deal with the enjoyer according to what taste they want to get from them. So there has to be a sensitivity to that. But at the same time as the enjoyer has to interact with the enjoyed according to, you know, their need. And it was according to their need and the other is what they want.

So you get what happens here? So what is it all about?

The enjoyer is dealing with the enjoyed according to what they need. The enjoyed is dealing with the enjoyer according to what they want.

According to what the enjoyed wants. Enjoyed wants, yeah. Did you catch what happened here? So, so equal would be good. You know what I’m saying?

So this is a conspiracy.

The concept of equal rights is a complete conspiracy.

Because it’s all about the enjoyed.

Did you catch that? The enjoyed deals with the enjoyer to what they want from the enjoyer. And the enjoyer has to deal with the enjoyed how the enjoyed wants to be dealt with.

Mother Yashoda is dealing with Krishna. What does she expect from him?

Yeah, that childness. So she’ll deal with him to get, bring out, draw out the childness. Does that make sense? She’ll deal with the other elder gopis that’ll bring out friendship.

You understand? So, that’s there. But then Krishna as the child has to deal with Mother Yashoda according to what she’s looking for. So Mother Yashoda comes down to say that to enjoy means to see the other being pleased. Yes. Right. So now here, this is the point. Is that we see the enjoyer gets less pleasure. They get pleasure but less than the enjoyed gets. You understand? Now, then there’s another step. Is the one who’s arranging for the enjoyer and the enjoyed to interact that they get pleasure. They get more happiness than the two of them.

Did that make sense?

Yes. Yes.

If you’re in touch with them, you taste what they taste.

You understand?

So, that’s the point. Yes.

Yes. So it’s always, the point is, is it always goes. Because you’re enjoying more, that increases their happiness. Because they enjoy more, that increases yours. That’s what Prabhupada talks about, this transcendental competition. Right?

When Krishna sees Radharani’s happy, he becomes more happy. When she sees he’s more happy, she becomes more happy. So it’s always going. But when the Jivas see the both of them more happy, then they become more than that. So it’s always, always going up. It’s always, so it’s dynamic. So that’s why it’s very important that envy is not part of the equation. Because if there’s envy, envy means that the other person’s facility enjoyment must stop. But if you stop that, you stop your own enjoyment. So that’s why the person who’s envious, they destroy everything. But they also destroy their own, own pleasure. They don’t understand that. The jealous person, that’s mode of passion. So you’re enjoying, I also want to enjoy. But it also will give reaction. Because jealousy will also give some problems because it’s in the mode of passion. Ignorance, I mean, envy always gives very, very bad results. Because it’s destructive. Because it’s a mode of ignorance.

Right? The goodness is that you’re doing things because you’re supposed to do them.

You know, so therefore then, then there are no bad results. Yes?

No, it’s jealousy, no envy.

This means, OK, well, why would it be jealousy when it’s pure? Because the point is this. Jealousy is not the problem. Right? It’s a problem here. Here we talk about it as a bad quality or a quality that will be useful getting you out of ignorance, but not good enough to get you into goodness.

So it’s because here is that the qualities aren’t connected to Krishna. But what we’re discussing is the qualities need to be connected to Krishna. Because the qualities we have and the qualities that we appreciate in anything else, that’s all Krishna. So we’re trying to appreciate qualities. So in our consciousness, we’re trying to see all qualities in connection with Krishna. And then we serve the interaction of those qualities with the qualities’ natural paraphernalia.

So that’s technically the process that we’re involved in. Like that. That would be, you could say, you know, the devotional understanding and formula in a nutshell. Like that. Does that make sense?

Yes? Kind of? Yes.

Yes.

Does it have the risk that he’ll try to enjoy more himself?

Means in the conditioned platform, that’s a risk. Because in the conditioned platform, one thinks one’s the enjoyer. But on the spiritual platform, one doesn’t think one’s the enjoyer.

Yeah. But the point is, what is better? Making that arrangement, thinking that you’ll enjoy, you know, that that arrangement is for others’ enjoyment, or not being worried about that I’m the enjoyer and not doing anything, which would be worse.

Yes. So that’s the point, is that you’ve made nice arrangements for the devotees, and, you know, got the money, arranged for a big feast, everybody’s happy and enjoying, and then you’re expecting that everyone will come up to you and go, wow, great feast, nice arrangements, that’s fabulous, you know, you’re the greatest, you know, like this. And so if they do nice and if they don’t, then you may not continue. That’ll be the weakness of it. Right? Because, oh, no one appreciates it, so next time you won’t do anything. But then do you get anything out of it? No, you did nothing, you got nothing out of it. Right? You did something and you felt you got nothing out of it. But of the two, since you’re going to get nothing out of it anyway, which is better.

Right? To do it for Krishna. You know, the Vaishnavas get benefit, everybody’s benefit, so you get more from that. But the best is that you do it simply because it pleases Krishna.

Right? Because the point is, is ultimately trying to enjoy anything separate from Krishna, you can’t do it, it’s an illusion that you think you are doing that, because if it is, why is it your happiness is so temporary?

You know what I’m saying? Let us say there’s something you’ve been wanting for a long time, some article or something, you know, and then somehow or another you get it. Right? You’re happy, right? So the thing is, but that feeling of happiness, how long did that last, actually? It’s just that moment of getting it. And then it’s in the past and you’re thinking that I got it. Oh, so long I’ve been waiting and this and that. That’s the next conversation, right? First is that you get it and all the things like that. It’s just you and the thing and the experience. After that, then to keep it up, then you have to start talking to others about how long you’ve been waiting and how much you desired it and how important it is so that they appreciate, you know, what you got. You know, so that you’re trying to cultivate that experience. But the experience is already gone.

Right? Like that. Does that make sense? You know, and it may come over a little bit. You know, you’re feeling good and everyone you see, hey, Haribo, like this and that. And then if they don’t say Haribo back, then you have a problem. And then it’s gone.

Does it make sense? So that’s the point is that the connection to Krishna, then it lasts.

But not connected to Krishna, then it’s very temporary. That’s just the nature. So the point is, is only seen in connection with Krishna does it last. Right? So the Brahman platform will give you, you know, some, you know, understanding and some. But that’s with the Atmarama level. But that is still great compared to the material, but not so great compared to this devotional. Like that. You know, you’re doing it right. You feel good. You’ve done the right activity and all things like that. That’s better. Right? And still best is that the activity is being done, you know, to understand the activity are being done to please Krishna as a person. That will give the longest, the greatest and the most lasting.

Does that make sense? Yes.

Yes.

Yeah. We can gauge where we’re at, but at the same time as we can find what it is we’re looking for in that quality. In other words, why are we jealous? What are we actually looking for? And then you can see how to connect that to Krishna. So the point is, that’s what we’re saying is question is, is that the jealousy isn’t actually the problem. Is this the jealousy connected to Krishna or not? If it’s connected to Krishna, then it creates things. Things happen. Things expand. Things develop. If it’s not in connection with Krishna, then then temporarily you get something, but then it’ll be lost again. You know, so. So, therefore, the quality on its own isn’t bad. It’s just like, is the knife good or bad? Right. Now we take we have the same knife. Right. We give one what we have two knives. Right. We give one to, you know, how you say.

Let’s say Jack the Ripper. OK. And the other we give to, you know, how you say. Huh?

OK. Yeah. Well, I was thinking I was thinking more of the medical terms because Jack the Ripper was a doctor, you know, of some variety. So then, you know, a neurosurgeon. OK. So what is the knife the problem?

Right. Or is the knife the actual, you know, the reason that, you know, it’s like that. Oh, thank you, doctor. You know, you save, you know, my son, you know, this and that. No, no. It’s just, you know, I got a good set of knives, you know, like that. You know, I got him a special case. You know what I’m saying? So it’s him. It’s not the knife. Just like it’s it’s it’s it’s the you know, the the serial killer. It’s not the knife. Right. You know, just as you said, you could take the same knife and give it to Korman, you know, make make put the frosting on the cake or something like that. You know what I’m saying? So it’s the jealousy isn’t the problem.

It’s who’s using it and for what? Because jealousy is just one of the qualities. So that’s why I said any quality can be used except envy.

Yeah, because you see as you’re jealous. So why are you jealous? What are you jealous of? So it’s not an oh, I’m jealous. So that’s bad. That’s what we’re talking about with her question. Because if we’re if we if we’re contaminated by the element of being good, you understand that being good, that’s actually perfection. Then it’s I will. I will avoid the activity because it makes me jealous. You understand. But it ends up as ignorance because you do no activity.

Yeah, because. But but no, but even sannyasin renunciation. What’s the common point of both of them?

You both are endeavoring and getting a result. The question is, is it is it your result or is it Krishna’s result? Renunciation means it’s your result. Then after getting it, I give it to Krishna.

Sannyas means it’s it’s Krishna’s result. So therefore, the activity itself is directly for Krishna. You’re saying renunciation means it’s indirectly for Krishna. I’ve done the work for myself to get my result. But because I give the result to Krishna, therefore, my work gets connected to Krishna. So sannyas is just direct while renunciation, it takes two steps to get there. Does that make sense?

It means but there’s because it’s properly engaged, because you’re renounced in that. Renunciation means you think it’s yours. Then you give up that sense of ownership. Sannyas means you understand it’s not yours. But in both cases, you work with it. This this modern sense, then you think it’s there. So it’s bad.

You know what I’m saying? Like just like to say, you know, one is just like, OK, if you take a bath, it’s nice. You enjoy that. So therefore, there was an idea in early Christianity. Taking a bath is nonsense. Right.

So they didn’t they didn’t take bath. Because that would be sense enjoyment. But the concept of taking bath and then you are nice for going to church or associating with other Christians.

Yes. Yeah. Like that. So therefore, it’s it’s not real renunciation, because the point is, is why is it false renunciation? Because something’s true if it’s connected to the Lord and something’s false if it’s not. So it was renunciation. But because renunciation is not connected to the Lord, it’s false renunciation. Does that make sense? Yes.

Meaning of envy. Basic thing of envy is that I mean, what I read when Prabhupada describes it. Envy means that someone else has something. They shouldn’t have it. You should have it. Jealousy means someone else has something. You also want it. So you go out and get it. So they have it. You have it. You know what I’m saying? Like that, you know, so they have a nice cheddar. You get a nice cheddar. Now you both have nice cheddars, you know, but you’re, of course, you feel your cheddar is better than his cheddar. You know, and so then he’ll what? And then he’ll go out and get a better, you know, it’s like this. In other words, things are increasing, even though it may be based on passion. But at least there is something to work with. If you have this, like if you go into the kitchen and there’s nothing there, you can’t cook. Right. But if something’s there, you can cook. So if it’s inferior material, whatever it is, you can do something. So better is superior material, but better inferior material than nothing.

So that’s why motive passion is better than ignorance. Ignorance is useless. Right. Because nothing happens from ignorance. It’s destructive. It doesn’t do anything. It just sits there like, you know, I say a bump on a pickle or something. It doesn’t do anything. Right. And then but the but passionately something’s happening because they’re moving. Then they’re moving and getting a result. They have knowledge. There’s focus. So now all you have to do is adjust that particular focus and that goal. The activity won’t change. So we’ll say, oh, I see. You know, he’s, you know, he’s always absorbing his business and just money, money, money. And this is all. No, that’s that’s not actually the problem. The problem is, is that what’s the money for?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Appreciation or it’s something that you want for the other person. Rather than for yourself like that. You know, in other words, you know, that the happiness of the Vaishnavas, you know, by feeding them Prasad, you know what you want that for Krishna that Krishna would like to see the devotees happy. So you want that for Krishna rather than you want to see them happy, because if they’re happy, they’ll probably tell you that it was nice. You understand? So it comes out to say that the trick in this is trying to see what’s the essence of why the activity is being done. Right. Why is it being done? In other words, what’s the result that you’re looking for? And what’s the identity that they would see themselves in this and that they would take part in this process anyway?

You know, I’m saying, because that’s where your problem is, because that’s where the focus is. Right. The focus is the understanding what you want and everything, the endeavor and the results that’s going to come no matter what. You know, the devotee puts a potato in the water and boils it and the Karmi puts a potato in the water and boils it from the process of boiling. Then you’re going to end up with a boiled potato. That’s not going to change. The point is, is the devotee sees themselves as servant of Krishna and they want a boiled potato for Krishna. Well, the Karmi sees that, you know, so I am servant of Krishna, so therefore I arrange something for Krishna. Then the Karmi’s things is that I am the enjoyer. I want a boiled potato. You know, I am the enjoyer. It means, you know, I’m the controller and enjoyer. So I’m the identity. I want what I want for myself. They put themselves in both positions and then they boil potato for themselves, you know, which will come back to them as their identity. Does that make sense? So you change the identity instead of I’m the servant. So I may be controlling the pot and the potato and the fire, but I’m controlling it as a servant. I’m not controlling it as the controller. I’m the supreme controller of this kitchen. You know, like this. It’s my kitchen and all potatoes that I see are mine, you know, like this kind of thing. I have boiled potatoes. Tomorrow I will boil more.

Yes, it conquers the mind, though, depending upon how deep is a particular.

Attachment, you could say, or a misgiving it. One will have to continually, you know, in other words, anything you do will generate the desire to do it again. Right. So there’s some bad habit you have by performing that bad habit. It will it’ll produce the desire to do that bad habit again. Right. Now, if somehow another you don’t do that bad habit. Right. In other words, the action you perform is not doing anything.

You know, in other words, opportunities there, you don’t take it. That’s that is an action. Right. So then that will produce the desire to not respond again.

Right. So it may take some time before the not respond becomes more prominent than the respond, because there is a desire to respond again. So it comes up. So due to due to habit or weakness, one may again do it. So it’ll produce another one. So but, you know, one’s determined and then, you know, so slowly, slowly. So the lighter something is. And just by understanding you go. That’s crazy. And just drop it on them right at the moment. But some things may take longer. So, in other words, those things that you’ve already dropped, you know, that’s that was the thing. Things you’re still worrying about, you know, even though it’s been a problem since, you know, for the last however many years. Those are the ones that you need. I mean, it’s just a matter of focusing and determination. It’s not a matter. I’m so stupid. I’m so this that. No, it’s a matter of just doing it. You know, I’m saying, you know, you know, you picked up the pot and dropped it. So now is thinking I’m so stupid, such an idiot. Does that solve the problem? What’s the real solution to the problem? Pay attention. Pay attention. Don’t drop the pot. That’s all. That’s what Manu says. That’s how a human being deals. The modern thing, because it’s based in ignorance, they want you to feel bad. And, you know, how you say, flog yourself or, you know, do something like that because you’re so disgusting and this and that. And then others feel good. Why? Because they’re they’re in ignorance. Why? Because they’re envious. Why is it he got to do it and I didn’t get to do it? You know, so so I can’t do it. He shouldn’t do it. You understand? Yeah. You know, that’s that’s that’s the point. So it’s like, you know, it’s like how you say, you know, brahmachari sannyasis, you know, I can’t interact with the women and all that. And, you know, enjoy the facility. So the grahasthas shouldn’t either. Right. We heard this one. I mean, we don’t hear it directly. But have we seen that? Yes. Or that the grahasthas, they want money and all this. But the brahmacharis, because they don’t have anything to spend it on. So when they do get money, it’s obvious. You know, not that they have any more money than the grahasthas, just more obvious because they don’t have to buy perfume and diamonds and saris and everything else. So and tickets to India twice a year and all that. You know what I’m saying? So therefore, they they the money is seen. The grahasthas say, you know why they should have the money. You understand? These are all based on on envy, not on jealousy.

You know, you know, otherwise it was if it was jealousy, then it would be a matter of. OK, they have they preach. They got money. If I preach, I’ll get money. But no, it’s stop your preaching. So you don’t have money. And then I’m satisfied that I’ve actually done something in the Vedic culture.

But money is who is Lakshmi. So sannyasis and brahmacharis aren’t servants of Lakshmi. No, because the grahasthas thing is that money is something for me to enjoy. I’m the enjoyer of Lakshmi. Therefore, nobody else should have it. So it’s actually Ravana’s mentality.

Hanuman also dealt with Sita.

That’s not seen as bad.

Because he sees is that so if it’s if it’s Krishna’s, then it’s not a problem.

You understand?

Does that make sense? So that’s the point is, is that you have to see where it will be valuable.

You know, it should be is that no, it’s my duty to preach as a devotee. Therefore, I preach. Then the facilities I need will come. So that would be based on goodness. But even if it’s not, well, you know, hey, their temple, they just did this and had a big festival. And that was there and they wrote it up in the BTG. We know we want our temple. So we’ll do the same. So in any case, it’s still it’s something that pleases Krishna or Krishna. Though there may be underlying material motives. So you’ll do that. You’ll have the festival. It will be a success. It is written up in the BTG. But the headache that comes along with it will be a headache for you. Because there is the element that you’re doing it for yourself because of the jealousy. Well, if you were doing it simply out of duty for Krishna, then it wouldn’t be so much because it’s difficulty. But difficulty is part of just getting anything done.

Does that make sense? So in other words, even the obstacle will not be perceived as a problem if it’s a duty and goodness. But in passion, obstacles are a problem because you want the result. Right for yourself. Right. And for yourself, there’s always limited. It’s just like this. If you want something, how much patience do you have compared to if you want something for someone else? You understand? Yeah. So that’s the point is that if it’s for Krishna, then you have a lot more patience to work. Like you see some devotees there be in some areas and they’ve been there forever. And then eventually something happens. It’s just reading BTG. Who is it? Maybe it’s Charu or something. Out in the middle of nowhere in Utah, they built this temple. It looks like Kusum Sarovar. And they have, I think, a holy festival.

I can’t remember if it’s like they throw like 50,000 kilos of that colored dye. They have so many people come.

They have these huge festivals. It’s just Charu and his wife.

Now it’s slowly growing, but it just started out there. Middle of nowhere. There’s nothing out there. It’s not like New York or L.A. or Chicago. It’s out in Utah. Who’s ever heard of Utah? Bonneville salt flats are out there. I guess you could do guys that are driving their cars and motorcycles preaching or something. Take them for a shot. Other than that, it’s just like you don’t hear of much going on out there. Plenty of Mormons, but otherwise you don’t hear a big kind of modern scene happening. Mormons definitely aren’t worried about a modern scene. They’ve got their own scene. Two people went out in the middle of nowhere, did something. And it didn’t happen overnight. You can imagine how many cookies you’d have to sell to build a building the size of Kusum Sarovar.

It looks just like it. So that must mean it’s carved and it’s put there or they made it out of cement or whatever it is. But it was a lot of work. So that’s the point. You just keep at it. It happens. So that you could do. But for yourself, it’s like if it didn’t happen yesterday, it’s too late already.

So that’s the point. That patience is there. So the mode of passion makes the obstacles unbearable. But the mode of goodness, then they’re just part of what you do.

Does that make sense? It’s part of the relationship, part of the service.

Is that OK?

OK.

And F. By understanding the instructions of Bhagavad Gita, we can revive our eternal occupation. Sanatana Dharma. That is the perfection. That is the perfection in life. Right. So rendering service is the nature of the living entity. So by understanding the instructions of Gita, then those instructions applied with service and service is what you’re going to do. The Jiva is serving anyway. So by understanding that and connecting that service to Krishna, then one actually takes up one’s natural position, which is Sanatana Dharma. Right. So that’s why the varnasrama system and the process of devotional service, all these are called Sanatana Dharma.

Because the nature of the Jiva is to serve. So that’s the eternal service. So if you’re rendering service to Krishna, no matter what you’re doing, that’s Sanatana Dharma. Right. Then if you’re addressing your conditioned nature, right, in a scientific way, and connecting that to Krishna, means that nature, you’re engaging that nature as your service to Krishna, then that’s Sanatana Dharma. So varnasrama is the scientific method of applying the conditioned nature in devotional service. Therefore, varnasrama, we call it Sanatana Dharma.

Right. But Sanatana Dharma means engaging your nature. When we say varnasrama, then what we’re meaning is understanding that nature that you’re going to engage in Krishna’s service.

Does that make sense? No. Cooking is a process. Right. Then there’s a recipe that you follow in that process. So varnasrama is the recipe.

Does that make sense? So varnasrama on its own is not Sanatana Dharma. But varnasrama connected to Krishna is Sanatana Dharma. So we’re only interested in Sanatana Dharma.

Yeah. The recipe on its own is not cooking. And even if you cook the recipe, if you don’t offer it to Krishna, we’re not interested either. So we’re interested in using the recipe, cooking for Krishna, offering it for Krishna. So this is where difficulties come in, is that, you know, say, oh, I just want to do whatever I want to do. Why do I have to be restricted? No, varnasrama is simply showing you the scientific method to identify what your nature is. That’s all. So it’s a matter, do you want to know what your nature is and then engage that in Krishna’s service, or not know what your nature is and then whatever you’re doing, try to engage it. But if you can’t figure out what your nature is, how are you actually going to figure out if you’re engaging it in Krishna’s service?

If you can’t figure out who you are, you can’t figure out who God is.

So it’s the same, because self-realization starts, you understand, I’m servant, then I can understand God. I’ll understand God through devotion. So if I can’t understand what my conditioned nature is and to do for God, then how will I understand? At the same time, if someone’s very enthusiastic, doesn’t know the science of varnasrama, but very, very sincerely engages their nature in Krishna’s service, that’s sanatana-dharma. Because sanatana-dharma means engaging your nature, your service attitude, in Krishna’s service. In the spiritual world, they know their relationship with Krishna. Based on their relationship, they have a particular form. They engage that relationship and form in Krishna’s service. That’s sanatana-dharma. So we’re given the opportunity to do exactly what those in the spiritual world do. They practice sanatana-dharma, we can practice it here. But it’s consciousness.

The sanatana-dharma is consciousness. Varnasrama is the mechanical form that you apply the consciousness through.

So it’s not that varnasrama is important, but the point is that your consciousness has to go through something. Would you rather go through something more refined or something less refined? That’s all. It’s up to you. If you had an opportunity, you’re making something nice for Krishna, let’s say you could have silver wire to make your connections with, or you just had some old rusty iron wire, which would be better?

The silver wire, right? Why? Because it does a better job. So following the principles of varnasrama, then the conditioned nature is engaged in a more scientific way. Therefore, it becomes valuable. Because it’s engaged in Krishna. We’re not interested, that’s a better way, and that’s why we do it. Devotees sometimes get distracted by that. That’s why you have those that are opposed to the Vedic, and they don’t have any potency. And those who are pro-Vedic, and much of the time they don’t have any potency. Why? Because in both of them the consciousness is wrong. One’s more pious, one’s more impious. Yes, that you have to give them. But the point is, just as we said before, is it varnasrama because it’s good, and because you do things good, that’s why you do, right? I do things according to the rules and regulations, so therefore, varnasrama’s rule, I do that. You understand? It’s very, very subtle.

Very subtle. So that makes the difference. So it works when it’s done according to proper consciousness.

But, of the two, someone who’s impious and someone who’s pious, better the pious person. Therefore, the pro-Vedics are way better situated than those who are anti-Vedic.

But, at the same time, still, then there’s devotional service.

Right? So the point is, is that since we have to serve, varnasrama makes it scientific.

Why am I bringing this up? Because Prabhupada uses dharma, varnasrama dharma, and sanatana dharma as synonyms.

They’re considered equal.

Right? Devotees like to make it this and that and point out this and that. No, but then there’s devotional. We’re beyond varnasrama. But the point is, is, no, it’s the medium you use. It’s just like to cook in your kitchen, you use a pot. If you say, I am the pot, then that’s a problem. No, but if you say, oh, you know, you think you’re the pot, so that’s nonsense. So, we don’t need pots.

But that’s what we’re doing. No, you have to have the pot, just don’t identify with it. So, you have to have varnasrama, you just don’t identify with it. You have the conditioned nature, brahma, satya, vaisya, sudra. So, but it’s not you, but it’s what you have.

Right? You know, if I have a potato and let’s say, or let’s say I have a cauliflower and I have a corella. Now, both have their good qualities. Both can be cooked in certain preparations. Right? But now, if I use the modern philosophy and say, oh, it’s all equal. Why are you discriminating? You know, it’s all the same. You can do, everybody can do. So, if you take your corella and cook it with your paneer and make a corella -paneer subji, is anybody going to be happy?

No, because there is discrimination. So, this lack of discrimination, and the fun part is, is who is saying this? Intellectuals. People who actually sincerely think they’re intellectuals.

And probably do have a lot of, you know, how you say, fundamental intelligence.

Or, you know, they have good IQ, something to work with. But their application of it is stupid.

So, they claim intelligence, when intelligence means the ability to discriminate. And they say, we shouldn’t tell the difference between anything. No, you should tell, you should go beyond that. That each one is perfect in its own place. And so, each one should be situated according to its nature. And its own nature should be brought out. So, you only partly cook the corella subji. No, you fully cook with all every spicing and every aspect you can bring to it to make it perfect.

Right? And then, it in its place, as the bitter, is perfect. But to say, no, no, why do you have to say bitter? Why can’t we put that here? Or the bitter will replace the dull. You know, it’s like that. You know, it doesn’t make any sense. The point is, is we’re engaging the senses in the service of the Lord of the senses. So, the senses means discrimination.

Right? When we say body, mind, words. Right? So, mind is mind. Right? That’s obvious. Body is the body. What are the words?

What are words? We say body, mind and words engage in the Lord’s service. What is words?

Intelligence. So, that means the physical activities, the intellectual activities and the mental activities are all connected to the Lord. So, the intelligence controls the senses.

Right? It’s activity.

It controls the senses. So, that’s the idea. We’re trying to connect all this to Krishna.

So, then it becomes very nice. So, therefore, is that all this is there. That’s why all these different things are doing. And at the end of it, then Arjuna, understanding this, then he was on the battlefield to fight for himself. Now he’s going to still do exactly the same thing, but fight for Krishna. Right? But otherwise, he made the same mistakes we may make. Right? He finds out about spiritual, okay, now I just don’t fight anymore.

Right? Spiritual, oh, we don’t collect money, we don’t build things, we don’t do big things, you know, we just sit around and do small stuff.

No. We still do big. So, Krishna, okay, you know, this is great, so we go to the forest. Arjuna, no, you fight. He’s kind of, fight, why do I fight? You just told me I was a fool because, you know, I was going to fight and all this and that. You told me all this spiritual and now you tell me I’ve got to fight again? So then he explained karma yoga.

Yes? So, like that is that the activities, the body is engaged in the Lord’s service. Right? Then the knowledge, the jnana yoga, is engaged in the Lord’s service. Right? Does that make sense? Right? The mind, you’re remembering Krishna, is engaged in the Lord’s service. Right? So that’s buddhi yoga. Body, mind and words are engaged in the Lord’s service. Yes? Those words, it’s like very often mentioned, body, mind and words. Can you say more? What is the significance of words? Why words instead of tongue? Body, mind and earlobe. Like that, okay? Body, mind and toes. That would be more. Rhyme better. Because of all the senses.

Okay, back up. What’s the example that Prabhupada gives? How do you tell if someone is intelligent or not? By what they speak. So the symptom of the intelligence is the words. So therefore, body, that’s obvious. You can see that. Mind, you know, the emotions and feelings. But then the words, then you can tell if they’re intelligent. So if you say words are used in the Lord’s service, because words then means what you’re talking, you’re saying. Your philosophy and all that. That means that’s what you’re going to be engaging your senses as. Right? The intelligence will be endeavoring in that way. Is that okay?

Okay. And then tomorrow we’ll finish with this. Six.

And then, yeah.

And then we’ll go on to chapter one. So basically whatever you want. So from Monday we’ll be. Monday. Yeah. Monday we’ll be studying chapter one. So best is it’s already. Read. Before that.

OK. Oh, my. Krishna Krishna. Krishna. Hare Hare. Hare Rama. Hare Rama. Hare Hare. Hare Hare. Hare Rama.

Hare Hare.

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