Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #26

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #26

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Sadhguru chants Sadhguru chants So Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura writes in his commentary, the verse 2, even for a jñāna, performing action is not at all a fault. Rather by performance of niṣkāma karma, the heart becomes fixed in purity. From that jñāna becomes fixed. Sometimes there may arise disturbance in the heart of the sannyāsī. In order to alleviate that disturbance, it is forbidden…

Is it forbidden to engage in karma? Disturbance in the heart certainly obstructs the practice of jñāna, but again, taking up enjoyment of sense objects rather than performing niṣkaṁ karma is a real degradation.” Right?

So, in other words, you have someone who is engaged in the path of jñāna yoga, then for them to be involved in niṣkaṁ karma yoga, then that’s not a problem because the principle is the same, that of detachment. So this detachment then… But here it’s being done with knowledge, so therefore the niṣkaṁ element. So the activity with proper knowledge, right, with that detachment, it’s not an impediment on the path of jñāna, right, because one is purified by that process. But if one… But if one doesn’t use that process, then if one just engages in karma with attachment, then that will… That will be a… That will be a degradation. That will be a problem. Right? Does that make sense? So niṣkaṁya, that’s the important element.

Does that make sense? That’s what connects the two. Karma that’s not niṣkaṁya can be a problem because whatever is the attachment, that will… It will be binding. It’s only that activity performed with knowledge and detachment that you become freed from material entanglement. Right? So… Yeah. Does that make sense? So otherwise what we’re doing is going from this detachment to sense enjoyment. So that’s useless. So you want to apply detachment in the engagement of the senses, because then it connects both of them, and then it will… You can become free. Does it make sense? Yeah? On the other hand, a karma yogi, devotee, is happily engaged in all sorts of activities in spirit… In the spirit of detachment. His position is better because detached activities are both natural and beneficial. They strengthen one’s realization and prepare one towards the ultimate goal. Right? Natural and beneficial, because we may look at it and know, but why would detached activities be natural? Because that’s actually the nature of the soul. So to work for someone else’s benefit is actually one’s nature. Because if you think about relationship, how does relationship work? You have to work for the other person’s benefit, right? Then it works. So that’s the natural position of the soul. The soul can’t just be on its own. The soul has to be in connection with others, interacting with others. That’s its nature, right? So it’s natural. And it’s beneficial because of the knowledge and the detachment, one is getting benefit from the activity, and at the same time, one is becoming relieved from attachment to that activity, right? And others are getting the benefit because it’s nais karma, that means it’s for someone else. Right? Does that make sense?

In verse three, the Lord explains that detached work is equal to, but easier than renunciation of work.

Sannyasa is a state of consciousness rather than just an external situation, Bhagavad-gita 6.1. This state is easily attained by devotional service, karma yoga, right? So we were discussing before, sannyasa means that you’re performing the activity already for someone else. The benefit’s not for yourself, right? So that’s the element of sannyasa. So when it’s being done for the Lord, not that I’ll do the work, I’ll get the results, my result, and I’ll give it to the Lord, I’m already doing the Lord’s work, right? So that’s sannyasa. So it’s coming through the medium of engagement, of activity. So that’s more beneficial, it’s more easy, and you get the same result, right? Doing nothing and having the knowledge, you know, and so you’re in a detached state, or performing the activity in a detached state of mind, you get the same benefit. In fact, it’s actually easier, right? And in the long run, you’ll find it will be better. Because the other one, unless the one is very, very qualified, how one will do that? And that qualification will be dependent upon previously you have done that, right? Because knowledge and detachment come from appropriate work, right? So that means the person already has done that, that’s how he’s in that position, right? So if one performs like that, it will bring one to that position. Does that make sense? So even if one’s already at that position by performing that, it’ll bring you farther in that position, right? Does that make sense? In verses four to six, it is stated that since the aim of the analytical study of the material world is to find the soul of existence, the Lord, devotional service to the Lord is not different from the analytical study. Srila Prabhupada compares the first process to discover the root of the tree and the second process to water this root, because the aim of both is Krsna. Only the ignorant sees them as different. Since the ultimate goal is self-realization, one who can see this unifying aim sees things as they are.

So you’re analyzing things, so by analyzing, what are you supposed to do? Why analyze? What are you trying to accomplish, right? You know? Make sense? What do you want to accomplish by analyzing?

Yes, what’s real and what’s illusion. So what’s real?

What’s connected to Krsna, what’s illusion? What’s not connected to Krsna, right? So, now, then, so that’s the process of jnana. Now, naiskarmya, what’s that process?

Yes, so having found Krsna, now you’re doing something for Him, right? So you can see is they’re non-different, but at the same time is the naiskarmya is actually better, because you’re doing something active for Krsna. So, that is His devotional service, right? You understand? Because I… Where was… What is that that we came across?

I think it’s in Bhagavatam.

Bhagavatam was describing that when you’re going through the levels of naiskarmya…

That… What was that? In the Supanisad?

Supsamita. Yeah, because I remember we were… Just last year we were discussing that, that you have that karma is higher than jnana, right? But… So in that, then you have the element, but the naiskarmya, then you have different levels of this naiskarmya, right? And so, they’re bringing out is that you’re going to have the level where you’re performing the activities and you’re focusing on not being attached to the results, right? And so, you’re not necessarily very engaged in things, because you’re very careful what you… How… What activities you do to… So that you can maintain the spirit of detachment, right? But then there comes a stage where that’s not the focus anymore. The focus is simply on pleasing Krsna, understand? So the activity becomes prominent, but that’s because the devotional services become prominent, right? In other words, the naiskarmya, the main… The element of naiskarmya, we’re talking about a spiritual process, right? But this nishkama-karma-yoga, if it’s connected to Krsna for His pleasure, then we’re talking devotional service, right? So this also, we were discussing a few days back, this also answers that point about… Let me see.

This point about… What was the point about?

So, you have this in the reflection, right? What’s the highest in the spiritual world is going to be the lowest in the material world, right? So, that element of dynamically serving the Lord, right, in the spiritual world is higher than the santa-rasa, where you simply appreciate, but you’re not actually rendering specifically any service. Does that make sense, right? Now, if you reflect that in the material world, then what is service here, right? What will be the karma? It’ll be the lowest, but what does it mean? What are you doing in this state of activity?

The spiritual world activity means serving Krsna, pleasing Krsna, right? And then santa-rasa means not so involved, but appreciating the position of the Lord, but not doing anything. So, when we reverse that here, what is that activity here? Yes, doing something for yourself, for your own pleasure, you know, or maybe for some others, like this and that. And then what will be that position like the santa-rasa, where you just appreciate it, right? You’re not involved.

Yes, so, yes, Brahman realization. So, why is that better?

It’s closer to Krsna, right? But, at the same time, it’s the closest to the point of reflection.

So, when you cross that reflection, then it’s still going to be similar. Then it goes to the other side, you understand? So, in other words, materialistic activities are a problem. So, spirituality is better than that. But, ultimately, better than that is devotional activities, right? So, that’s why someone can just switch from material activity to spiritual activity. That’s the best. It’s direct. But if that doesn’t work because of attachment, then you use this technique of analyzation to break down our inspiration, to be involved in it as a form of karma. You know, so that we pull ourselves back. But, as we pull back and we’re situated, then we can see things in a balanced light. Then we can be involved in the activity, but now for Krsna. You understand? Yes? So, naiskarmiya is not dependent on jnana?

Naiskarmiya means you have to have some knowledge, of course. But, the point is, the difference is, you could say in this situation, the difference is jnana yoga means there’s no activity, while karma yoga there is. But the knowledge is the same.

You know what I’m saying? But it may be that the focus is not as much on the knowledge, right? Because you’re performing the activity. So, depending upon one’s attachment, then one’s more focusing on the activity or more focusing on the knowledge. Right? So, what we’re saying here is that your best situation is going to be where one is qualified in the process of jnana yoga, but one’s performing karma yoga. Right? That will give you best result, because then you have the most knowledge and detachment in which you’re performing the activity.

That will be more dynamic. Right? In other words, karma yoga where you’re just involved in it, it would be better that you’re more detached. But if you can be detached and involved in it, that will be the quickest. Right? Does that make sense? So, in other words, activity is always the recommended process. It’s always the best. Right? That’s why, that’s why we see is when Krishna is giving, giving the options of how to situate yourself, then best is you just take up devotional service. Right? And that’s all. Be satisfied with that. If one can’t do that, then one takes up the process of regulated, you know, devotional activities. Right? In other words, if the Bhagavata doesn’t come, you know, instantaneously, you know, like for the Gopis or Maharaja Katvanga like this, or the wives of the, the Yagic Brahmins like that, then if that process doesn’t work, then you take up the pancharatra process. You regulate your lifestyle and everything in connection with the Lord. Right? And that’s complete. If that’s not, doesn’t, you’re not well situated in that completely, there’s still other things going on, then you situate yourself in nice karma. Right? That you perform, do all your activity, do all the activities you want to be involved in, but they should all be done for the Lord. Right? So, in other words, it’s sannyasa. You know, you drop into the varnasrama system. Right? If that doesn’t work, right, then you perform sakam karma yoga. Right? But it’s still connected to the Lord, but you’re doing it for your own purpose, and then you’re going to give something of that to Krishna. Right? If that doesn’t work, then just be a nice guy who, you know, opens hospitals, gives them charity and does all those good, good things. Right? And if you can’t do that, that still doesn’t work for you, then you can be a Mayavadi.

Right? So, we see an actual, practical Mayavadi is the bottom of the pile. Right? Because better than that is work and knowledge, because work, you’re getting a result. The other one, it’s like, you’re not involved in the material, so that’s good. But, where you’re not involved where are you going? What are you doing? Nothing. There’s no, there’s no, not going to be any lasting benefit because the results always come from an endeavor. So, how long can you not endeavor? So, you’re endeavoring to not endeavor, but how long, after a while, you get good at not endeavoring. So, then, there won’t be an endeavor to not endeavor. So, then nothing’s happening, so there’s no result. So, then what happens? Then you’ll think of the material activities and come back to the material platform. Does that make sense? Does that make sense? So, there is a little endeavor to not endeavor. Right? But, as soon as that practice is very accomplished, where’s the endeavor? So, that means there will be no result.

Right? And, if there’s no result, then that means you can’t be in a static position. You’re either moving forward or moving backwards. So, what will happen? They’ll move back. That’s what Prabhupada says. All these big, big yogis and jnanis and that, after some time, then they all take up philanthropic activities. Why? Because their focus on that sadhana that they have and that knowledge and all that when they’re younger, then we see it’s very, that’s fully absorbing. But, after they become good at that, now what’s going to absorb their mind? So, they always turn to philanthropic activities.

Right? Does that make sense? So, they’re always going to include that. So, our point is this, since that’s always going to be included, why not include it from the beginning but in connection with Krishna?

Then, it’s spiritual.

Does that make sense? Right? Yes. Questioner 1 I’ve noticed many times that through the time devotees start lessening their activity as they, you know, instead of engaging more and working in this mode of devotion for the stronger they lessen that. Would that be a reflect of that element? Yes. Yes. Because, see, you take up devotional process so, it’s new. Right? And so, it’s a new culture, a new process, new activities, you know, new vocabulary, lifestyle, everything’s new. So, one’s focusing very much on that just to be able to perform it. But, after some years, one, you know, becomes comfortable in performing those activities. So, now, unless you go to the next level where you are trying to refine what you have, you just take it what you have that’s good enough. You know, in principle, yes. But the point is in a sense the mind, intelligence, body is still acting, then that should be, that should keep up with it. So, one should be refining that. So, if one doesn’t go to find small details, then what will keep your mind busy? Therefore, then they’ll just get into other activities and they’ll say these are important because now that’s new. Right? You’re going out and get a job or starting a new business or, you know, taking up some particular political, you know, forum and all that. Then that is what do you call it? That’s new. Right? So that keeps you busy.

Does that make sense? Okay. So, one has to be careful is that you’re going to be busy so you might as well be busy with Krishna consciousness because then you get a Krishna conscious result. Because the other is then it’s like what Vishwanath’s talking about here is that it’s not nice karma. So, so they’ve gone from the platform of of being absorbed in devotional activities to not doing devotional activities.

So, it means they want to be involved in a broader range of activities. Okay. It’s understood. Okay. Before it was just getting your rounds chanted and getting up in the morning and these things were difficult so they were very absorbing. Now that’s easy. So, of course you need something more to do but that something more to do can be done in connection with Krishna.

So, in other words find something some projects or study or like that because that’s the natural thing if the karma comes easy then you take you get more into study because karma yoga generates knowledge and detachment so then that’s the next natural step but what they’re saying is when the jnana yogi shouldn’t give up the process he should give up of nice karma you know what I’m saying but now it’s that he has that knowledge so study and then he will apply that in the situations that you know as whatever he’s involved in does that make sense you know so then it works it works very good but what happens is that they don’t so they keep themselves from becoming bored then they take up something else you know and that’s why you have all these different isms and different things it’s just to keep them busy it’s not necessary it’s not required chanting Hare Krishna is enough you know and things in connection with chanting you know the preaching and these activities the pancharatric activities and all that it’s enough but because it doesn’t get into the fine detail at least in their mind it doesn’t then then they’ll drop down into the lower the Vedic you know which will be include all the worldly activities but unfortunately if they follow the Vedic nice it’s more pious but then they’ll get distracted by that you know the astrology or the Sanskrit or the they’re I say Ayurved or something like this or it may be the same things but not in connection with the Vedic you know and that that distracts you know this new psychology or something you know something like that or have to care for everybody right you know Vaishnavas supposed to care for an ant so it’s already there in the philosophy but now because it’s come from you know somewhere else then now it’s so important you know I’m saying so it’s something new for their mind but they’re not connecting it to Krishna you know or if they are then it’s very minimally connected so they’re basically dropping to the platform from you know Nishkama Karma Yoga to Sakama Karma Yoga so that’s why you find that it’s uncomfortable dealing with the devotee in these areas because it’s not a very advanced position so when they sit down and chant or chant or lead kirtan or do other things it’s good so that can be the confusion but it’s just what absorbs their mind is something on a lower level you know is that ok?

that’s something back there ok yes so in other words one can combine these both be able to analyze and find the root of the tree and then to serve that root that combination that’s actually seeing things as they are because analyzing is only part of the soul right because analyze you’ll understand your position and you’ll you know with knowledge have understood what’s there right so one has understood you know some aspect of Sambandha you know who you are who god is and all that and there’ll be be half of of you know in other words the knowledge and all that that’s there in in Abhidaya you know that comes from the Sambandha potency but what’s missing?

right what what are we missing? prayogina prayogina and what is that prayogina?

just analyzing everything and being detached from everything yes so everything’s offered to Krishna okay and to offer to Krishna means you have to do what?

an activity right so that would mean then that completes the picture right you know who you are who god is and you know that you know so that knowledge and all that that’s half of what’s necessary to perform an activity right and just analyzing is not the ultimate goal you know it’s a goal but it’s not the ultimate goal but the ultimate goal is pleasing Krishna so when you add that means ultimate goal of pleasing Krishna and the willingness to perform an activity to do that to the knowledge that’s necessary to do the activity and the knowledge of who you are and what how Krishna is is in is in everything that’s complete right so that’s that’s why it says this unifying aim sees things as they are because that’s the actual principle right does that make sense so it naturally goes from I you know I am Brahman Krishna is Brahman and so therefore I can you know by seeing it in that way I won’t be entangled to you know I am Krishna’s servant you know and Krishna is the master right it’s the same it’s just a higher level of this Brahman understanding you know or you could say the Brahman it’s a lower level of the you know transcendental understanding so it naturally it means what you’ll notice here is why it’s why the devotional process seemingly is elusive is because it has natural stages but at the same time as the the the movement between these stages is dependent upon one’s consciousness one’s understanding and so so it’s it’s very fluid right the same activity the same this in other words the same field you can get all these variety of results right that’s the difference it’s so it’s seamless you know where are you nice the nice little boxes and everything like like you have the devotional process is been there for years but do devotees discuss it like how long how long is nectar devotion been around yeah that but I’m saying within our movement yeah so it was you know probably was that you know I think you would in in the late 60s nectar devotion is there so it’s there now what’s in nectar devotion yeah the full recipe now in there you’re having a starting off on just being convinced devotional service in the first five chapters of devotional service is the best activity is the best process right then you start you know the right and then from there you’re saying that you know association the spiritual master and this is the most important element right then hearing and chanting so it gives these five five aspects that are most important then that will take going up to then there’s going to be spontaneous devotional service then devotional service and ecstasy then devotional service and love of Godhead right that’s the first section right that establishes devotional service then after that three chapters are details on on what is what is what is rasa what is bhava you know means in other words what are the different aspects that make rasa okay so now in there it’s it’s you know vaidhi vaidhi bhakti is you know all the rules and regulations the sixty four items of devotional service spontaneous devotional service simply means doing that with you like doing that with spontaneity right it doesn’t change so this is a problem right because it’s the same thing that does you know what I’m saying you know does that make sense and then you know ecstasy you know love you know like that love of Godhead they’re a bit kind of a little distant you know like that so it becomes a little hazy right okay now when Devotee started you know from reading here and branched off branched into reading from I think Vishwanath then he has a book called Naturya Kadambi okay now what does it do yes shows the levels it takes one verse from Nectar of Devotion adao shraddha sadhu sanga bhajana kriya like this it takes that verse and then expands on it so now when we have what do we have yeah deal tail things where we will see it as these little boxes that you move from one to the next to the next to the next right and so now in courses how many if we think of you know devotional courses then the devotional course you’ve heard of in the past shraddha duprema that was very popular for you know like ten years right but just courses in Nectar of Devotion you don’t really hear much of them right I think Giriraj Maharaj is one of the only ones that ran one in Vrindavan everyone else would do these other ones okay does this make sense what I’m saying but the problem what is not shraddha duprema so that you’re on the level of shraddha then you move to the level of you know sadhu sanga then you move to the level of bhajana kriya then to anartha nivritti then to nishta but what actually is going on you have mixed level you have different process in the same moment yes you have that because you may be more you may be fixed in one like in your chanting but let’s say you know in some other aspect you’re not very fixed you know so you’re going to have all these at once then the other thing is how do you move from shraddha to sadhu sanga yes so in other words when the faith is greater then you move from shraddha to sadhu sanga right now when faith is more again right then you and your quality of association with the vaisnavs is greater then you move to bhajana kriya right so when faith and that increases again and your process practice increases again then you move to the you understand so in other words each one is going through so prabha defines prema one of his definitions is prema is mature shraddha but that doesn’t come out because we like these little boxes moving from one to the next so that’s that’s the difficulty is that it’s seamless the process why is you know in other words is there let us say you look at a mirror and you think what you see in the mirror is you and that’s it you know and then you come back the next day and then there’s something on the mirror oh now there’s a big problem here you know like that you know you have some strange disease you know you have toothpaste on your cheek disease right it’s there on the mirror you know and so now if we were somehow or another by explanation and other things we’re able to make you understand that you’re not the mirror the reflection in the mirror that we are the body then you understand then is there is there a difference in what you see in the mirror and what the body is right in the mirror you see noses and ears and all this and that does the body have that you understand so there’s no need of changing your concept but the point is is what you what is the real ear that you have to change does that make sense right so in other words activity is there relationships are there emotions are there results are there so that itself is real but what you think is the emotion the relation the activity that’s what’s the illusion you understand so because of lack of discrimination we see activity activity so therefore they’re the same you can’t tell the difference between the two right so one discriminates through the use of the spiritual concept the philosophy so therefore the tatva you pull it back and just analyze it and from that you remove the attachment to the illusory concept until one starts becoming attracted to the actual real concept the spiritual concept right does that make sense so transcendence is used as that bridge between the two right because in Vrndavana they’re sitting around and thinking oh so spiritual here no they’re just thinking of krishna you know when they see you see explanation in dwarka when one of the sons of krishna is sitting on his lap like that the other sons think oh what pious activities he’s performed right you know so they’re not thinking you know does that make sense so they’re just seeing it directly in relationship to krishna so that’s why there’s no need of it being something different we have this idea that spiritual must be different no it’s a matter of the difference is only because we can’t tell the difference so we make a difference but once we can tell the difference then there’s no need to follow a separate process does that make sense that’s why yudhisthira maras or ambrish maras don’t have to give up being emperors of the world being family men dealing with their money and their you know armies and you know their administration because they don’t see it separately from krishna they understand all these things are just activities that krishna performs these are all activities connected to him so they don’t have to but we see as if that’s not the case either for they give example or because krishna likes it done that way then we make a difference so parikat maras you know drops everything and goes and sits on the bank of the ganga and you know doesn’t eat or sleep or drink anything for seven days right so then we’ll say wow that’s spiritual you know but before that he was also spiritual you understand but one it’s past time so this is just how krishna likes it to run you know because he also tastes these different aspects but the other thing is is that these things make it they make us discriminate right this means you can’t say that there’s anything mixed here why because generally when we say something extreme we’re looking at those things actually we don’t know how to define it but we’re looking at direct devotional activities but in the process we throw in all these different things of austerity and you know other things like that that aren’t actually direct but they’re detached indirect rather than attached indirect you understand so because detachment is higher then we’ll consider it better but we still can’t discriminate between detached activity and devotional activity does that make sense so these are the whole idea is that one’s analyzing this the jnana yoga is to analyze this so one can tell the difference so the quality of one’s devotional service the buddhi yoga is better does this make sense kind of what’s not happening didn’t get the last one yes we’re the only one that can tell well Krishna can also tell but people who are more advanced than you can also tell right no but that’s why the spiritual masters and the association of devotees because in that means you associate with those who are more advanced then you’ll do what they do so you’re automatically will be doing the right thing and progressing you see their consciousness how they view things so you take that up you understand it’s a gradual process but the point is as long as it’s progressing then we’re not worried even if it’s going slow if it’s progressive then it’s fine it’s good how is it said that we have to associate mostly with those who are the same level as friends it’s not so much same level it’s same mentality it’s not same level it’s same mentality does that make sense what’s the point of friends why would you call somebody a friend share what so that’s the point is that let’s say let’s say someone likes to do harinam so you associate with those who like doing harinam so now in that you may have very new people and some very advanced people but the friendship is based on that activity of harinam you understand so there has to be a common activity that’s what generates the friendship otherwise there’s no common activity so that’s when you say equal that’s what it means is equal activity no, no I mean that will naturally come within there it’s just like you have means that friendship you have four kinds those who are junior those who are equal those who are senior and those who are intimate right so you’re going to have that four anyway within the realm of friendship no Rupa Goswami says better you associate with those who are more advanced but like minded right you understand so the like mindedness that’s what generates the friendship but those who are more advanced then that means then you’ll be inspired to move forward right so in other words you associate with those who you’re inspired in Krishna conscious to be in their association you know what I’m saying because in any case every living entity is unique so everyone’s going to be advancing in their own way in different areas you know what I’m saying so maybe you do one aspect better but they do another aspect better does that make sense so there’s an inspiration but there’s a common ground you know you like to cook they like to cook but let’s say they cook the sweets better than you but you can cook salties so there’s something they do that inspires you and something that you do that inspires them but you’re both cooks and you’re both good cooks does that make sense that’ll be more from detachment but because it’s in connection with Krishna it’s still beneficial you know what I’m saying because just as we can connect the attachments we can connect the detachments this is the mistake is to say oh they just need to just detach that’s not real but then they’ll connect attachments or say they connect attachments but the point is attachment and detachment are the same thing you know what I’m saying the principle is the same it’s just a matter of whether one is attracted to it or not retracted to it you know that’s fine that’s how the mind works I said attracted to it you know that makes sense and it should have been not attracted to it but I said not retracted to it because retract is you pulling back so attraction and retraction so it’s like okay so in other words it’s connected to Krishna so therefore it’s beneficial so we shouldn’t in other words if someone is let’s say you have some devotee and he’s very enthusiastic about fasting and this and that then you shouldn’t say well that’s not important and this and that it’s all the devotion because you have to connect something so if that’s what inspires them as long as it doesn’t affect their service and doesn’t affect their affect their relationships with others you know they don’t become always angry and grumpy and you know critical of others who do eat and you know stuff like that then then it’s fine you know then it’s good so even if it’s not you know there’s more at the element of just it’s a good thing to do it’s a proper thing but you know there’s a codice or it’s a festival day so they’re doing these things it’s connected to Krishna but it may not be as direct as just doing it to please Krishna right but if it’s getting in the way of their service they’re not eating and then they can’t do any service and this and that then better they you know pull it back to where they can still function right because as we were saying before is the detachment is good as long as up to the point of how one is interacting and serving Krishna right so one has to find that balance does that make sense so so some will take go one way extreme some will go the other way fasting why we have to be fanatic no it’s a matter of what works for the individual so if you understand the process somebody will be you know doing more somebody will be doing less it doesn’t matter as long as you’re trying to obtain a particular level of consciousness does that make sense so that’s what it can accommodate everything but if if there’s a situation where you have a group a group of persons who have basically the same inspiration or lack of it or same distraction then you you create a category you know does that make sense because if you just tell them like this this very seamless method then they can’t understand it you just say you know you shouldn’t fast like this you know what I’m saying and then they know okay and it works for them or their friends who are like them but then the problem comes is if that gets taken by others who could fast you know and don’t want to and then they say see here it says this then that’s where it becomes a problem so that’s why one has to understand the principle on which it’s based otherwise then there’ll be a problem yes I didn’t understand what you said about they can’t understand the seamless aspect of it seamless aspect means the activity is staying the same the consciousness is developing so one’s detached from the material and seeing it in that way and seeing it you know connected to Krishna but the activity stays the same but we’re used to that you know different mentality completely different activity so only if one can’t understand it in this way you may change the activity you understand like the brahmacharya they go to the forest because you know if they’re in an environment where the senses are being engaged then all that comes to their mind is material so you remove them from that environment and then they get accustomed to dealing with the senses on a higher platform then in that higher platform then they can come back to the city and be involved in preaching and that in the city and not get distracted because they can tell the difference between material and spiritual engagement in the senses does that make sense? so but it’s not considered a final step otherwise then the bhajananandi would be considered the highest because he’s pulled himself back the most but no the ghostyanandi is the highest so pulling oneself out of an area is just temporarily until he can deal with it does that make sense? one’s been in the family so the brahmacharya pulls one back from that or one’s been then you know then one’s matured he’s been in the family he’s a householder now means it’s his house rather than he’s in his father’s house so vataprastha is where you pull back from that you understand? again so yeah yes or you’re in the house you know as a kid and you do whatever you like and there’s no real higher consideration then you become a brahmacharya so you pull back from that and so now you can discriminate that engaging your senses but there are higher principles you know there’s responsibilities there’s duties there’s other people involved then one can go in and be a householder you know properly because now it’s not all about you it’s about you know the family itself as a unit but as before you were a brahmacharya then that’s not a question it’s all about you you’re the center of the household of course is there a question? it’s like that so now it becomes then you can actually run a household you know what I’m saying? does that make sense? so that principle of one temporarily removing oneself from the environment and analyzing the situation is there until one can make the discrimination and practical in that you can use it does that make sense? is that ok?

in verse 6 the Lord explains that renunciation without devotional service karma yoga cannot make one happy right? so here taking now devotional service and karma yoga are synonymous because that’s you know defined that’s what it means because karma yoga is connected to Krishna so activity is connected to Krishna through nice karma so that renunciation then is nice karma yoga renunciation without devotional service karma yoga cannot make one happy if it is accepted without proper qualifications sunyasa will give rise to suffering because of unfulfilled desires the material desires can be purified only when they are connected with the Lord simply ignoring them will not solve the problem Srila Prabhupada explains in the purport to verse 6 the students of the Bhagavata school are engaged in the devotional service of the Lord according to two puncher tricky regulations and therefore the Vaisnava sunyasis have multiple engagements in the transcendental service of the Lord right? so here is the finding Bhagavata school but they are engaged in devotional service according to Pancharatra right? so that’s important to note that oh we are Bhagavata we don’t care for all these no we are Bhagavata school but we engage according to Pancharatra right?

the Vaisnava sunyasis have nothing to do with material activities in that they perform various activities in their devotional service to the Lord but the Mayavadi sunyasis engaged in the studies of Sankhya and Vedanta and speculation cannot relish the transcendental service of the Lord because their studies become very tedious they sometimes become tired of Brahman speculation unless they take shelter of the Bhagavatam without proper understanding therefore the conclusion is that those who are engaged in Krsna consciousness are better situated than the sunyasis engaged in simple speculation about what is Brahman and what is not Brahman although they too come to Krsna consciousness after many births so our point is why waste time if you take it up now so because the Pancharatra then there are so many other activities right? because in the morning getting up taking the bath the Vaisnava dress the deity worship there is the preaching activities taking care of guests you know taking vishad all these different things are there so someone in the Bhagavat school following the Pancharatra then has a lot more engagement right? because the Mayavadis all they actually have is studying Vedanta that’s all they have they’re not supposed to do anything else so that’s all they have so if any desires aren’t taken care of very difficult very difficult but here the Pancharatra engages because it’s Ekayana so we have to remember Ekayana means the Pancharatra being an Agama means Agama means that which comes from so having come from the Veda all the verses of the Pancharatra and all the principles are from the Vedas but what they’ve chosen is all those verses that deal with worship of Vishnu right? well in the Vedas there’ll be verses that apparently aren’t about Vishnu they’re about Indra or Agni or Varuna right? but but so all those that are directly dealing with Vishnu that becomes all those removed and compiled in one place that’s called Pancharatra understand? so that means in the same principle if you take any activities described in the Veda and you connect it to the Supreme Lord then it’s Ekayana it’s Pancharatra that’s why we don’t have to separately mention the Vedic here so he says students of the Bhagavata school okay?

are engaged in devotional service of the Lord according to Pancharatriki regulations right? so that’s Pancharatra so therefore the Vaisnavas Sannyasis that’s the Vedic right? so all three are represented here so that means all the Vedic activities that broad range that the Sannyasis can’t be involved in are according to Pancharatric rules are connected to Krishna does that make sense?

yes? no?

the fun part is Prabhupada considered this kind of like this is kind of like high school level knowledge verses 7 to 13 description of Naiskarmiya alright? so that was all Naiskarmiya is equal to but easier and safer than renunciation of work right? so we’re establishing that of these two they’re equal right? because you’ve heard about karma in the third chapter you’ve heard about jnana in the fourth chapter now we’re saying that they’re equal but the karma is easier right? but what we’re doing is that combination is Naiskarmiya so Naiskarmiya comes from knowledge why would he be detached unless there’s knowledge? right? otherwise otherwise it’s just repulsion right? and that’s that’s basically not so useful you know how long can you be repulsed from something?

are they equal because they’re interdependent?

I mean they have some connection but the point is is they can be worked together if you know how to do that this process of Naiskarmiya if you don’t know then they’re basically in one sense independent of each other because those who would be involved would have a different mentality and different purpose right? but for the devotee then they only have one purpose one is analyzing who the lord is and then serving him right? so the two aspects are the same thing so in that way they’re equal right? but the serving is easier so even if you can’t analyze you can serve right? so if your analyzation was your service was depending upon analyzation then when could someone take up start devotional service? right? only after studying for many years but how would they actually get that knowledge without performing the activity? so therefore karma gives rise to jnan right? so now we’re saying karma gives rise to jnan and that jnan is reinvested back into the karma rather than thinking well that’s it now you move on further no it’s reinvested back does that make sense? yeah my doubt is that you said that they’re equal I can’t understand is it that jnana yoga can be performed without karma yoga? can jnana yoga be performed without karma yoga? yes if you’re qualified so you would that involves doing no activity or what does it mean? no activity means there’s no activity that specifically gets results you know you get up in the morning and take your bath and stuff like that you know you change your japa these things you know what I’m saying but the point is is that one has to be very qualified to do that in other words there can be no material needs to be on that platform you understand?

so that’s why even though they give the same result technically it’s easier karma because there’s always going to be material needs so karma can engage them so when that karma is performed with knowledge that position is naish karma so that’s the best situation that’s the most dynamic so when with knowledge you’re acting only based on your spiritual desires without any material desires that’s not considered karma? no see here’s we have to be able to accommodate that these words have multiple usages yeah because otherwise if we’re fixed it can only be used one way we’ll always have a problem because the point is karma means activity so the sinful person is doing karma right? the pious person materialist is doing karma right? the beginning stage of devotional service one’s doing karma right? the final stage of devotional service one’s doing karma so in other words activity is common throughout all of them right? but the difference is in the consciousness right? one will do anything to get what is all one is willing to restrict oneself and follow a higher you know social principles to get what he wants right? the other one is once connected to Krishna but he still has material you know habits practices so he’s trying to purify those right? and then eventually it comes to it’s just only to please Krishna is activity performed so you can say all of that is so for us means activity done to please Krishna so that’s karma yoga right? but within that we’re distinguishing the element of sakama nishkama right? because the point is is and we’re also distinguishing that the field of karma the activity is going to be based on activities recommended in the Vedas activities recommended in the Vedas if you’re not connected to Krishna are called pious activities so in other words pious means one is taking the recommended processes of connecting to Krishna so there’s a confusion on the pious pious activity or or not or the connection to Krishna or not you understand? so there’s all this overlap of definitions here that are necessary so the difficulty then devotees would say well we don’t bother with the Vedic so therefore they don’t follow the recommendations of scriptures so therefore they try to engage activities that normally would be defined as sinful you know? but not let’s say grossly sinful you know? it’s just kind of like you know ho -hum you know not so disgusting sinful you know what I’m saying? be nice but the point is if it’s not if that nice is not based on the Vedas it’s not actually sinful it’s not actually pious in what we’re talking about it’s not maybe pious on artha or pious on kama but even then they don’t know the connection to Krishna to scriptures so how will they really know how to define it? you know how will they know that they’re doing the best? right? and if they can’t define according to scripture because scripture analyzes it how will they actually know how to connect it to Krishna? if they’re doing it great but if they’re not doing it what’s their method to find out?

you know what I’m saying? so so that’s the difficulty is that activity you know is defined by if it’s recommended by scriptures or not and then there’s the point of you’re following that which is recommended in scripture are you doing for Krishna or not?

right? so the point is is performing activities recommended by the scripture for Krishna that’s the best but the most important of that is doing it for Krishna so even if you’re doing an activity it’s not necessarily defined in scripture it’s done for Krishna then that’s better than not doing it for Krishna you understand?

does this make sense? right? so that’s the problem is you have these overlapping so depending on the situation they’re talking about a different aspect like that so that’s why it seems to be confusing that’s why it’s discussed from so many different angles so eventually it will it will stop being confusing yeah?

the Lord explains that one who works in devotion has pure consciousness and his mind and senses are controlled he is dear to everyone and everyone is dear to him he works only for Krishna and therefore he is never entangled Srila Prabhupada writes in Message of Godhead such spiritualized persons alone can actually show sympathy to the fallen in terms of the individual the place and the time in spite of performing apparently material activities such spiritualized persons are free from the bondage of work this process is explained in the seventh verse of the fifth chapter of Bhagavad-Gita householders who perform their work with a view to transcendental results out of sympathy for all others are really eligible to become public leaders all others who claim to be public leaders are mistaken so in other words such a spiritualized person only they are actually able to apply this compassion to the individual soul according to the time and place others then are going to stick to broadly defined material qualities or devotional activities that they will apply in a very broad sense so they won’t make any distinction according to the individual or the circumstances it’s just a general rule and then it’s always well we have to set an example how many times have you heard that and actually has it ever worked extreme example did the what do you call it the inquisition work no so that’s the point is all this extreme application of rules not according to the individual individual and according to the time place and circumstance but based on the authority of scriptures it never establishes an example anyway you know the only example it establishes is people take up mundane consciousness and become insecure right because why because their consciousness is lower so they’re unable to apply it in a spiritualized form or a very advanced spiritualized form so therefore that aspect this material is going to give a problem yes some move towards the head okay that’s defense is offense question others are afraid of questions no so what’s your question no question okay okay and at the same time they are engaged in apparently material activities but there’s not there’s no bondage you know what I’m saying so this becomes a problem why because we have these this faith and we were saying in the materialistic qualities let us say let us take the twenty twenty-six qualities of a devotee okay now we know the svarupa lakshana is surrender to krishna now all the other ones then could be exercised without surrender to krishna right but as but if that svarupa lakshana is there then there’s that connection but why is that why are these other qualities the ones that we’ll look at what’s the attractive feature that we would be inspired by these other twenty-five qualities because we can tell we can tell okay yeah means they’re observable okay so but if we can tell what a position someone’s in what’s what’s the benefit we’ll compare okay and then having compared then what will one do get inspired yes okay inspired but inspired in which in which way okay we can elevate ourselves and elevate ourselves in what way by adopting the same qualities okay and then what will we do with those having adopted those same qualities elevated ourselves then sorry yes because you can also use these good qualities because these good qualities will advance one wherever one are remember we’re saying the reflection there’s no difference so the good qualities that you advance in spiritual life are the good qualities you’ll advance in material life you understand so we’re comfortable with them because we know them from the material because what is let’s say the person’s humble you know take a simple one what’s the advantage of the other person’s humble you could exploit him if you want it or in the reverse in the reverse he will not exploit you right you understand so all these qualities we look for then we’re looking for them on the material platform right because it’s better for us in other words if everybody else is good and nice the situation is better for yourself you understand so that’s why many times we see is that when we’re applying the devotional process devotees will focus simply on those qualities why because then there’s some benefit for themselves right not and not on the surup lakshana is their commitment to Krishna right so therefore someone can come into the room into the conversation and start saying all kinds of things about they don’t agree with things in Prabhupada’s books or start talking about other processes and this and that and no one says much as long as they say it in a nice way right you understand the consideration is not are they committed to Srila Prabhupada and his mission and committed to Krishna consciousness as long as they’re showing nice qualities it might be you know very acceptable in this as association you understand so the whole whole point is is that these someone who is spiritually advanced they’re able to connect these properly now here comes here comes a problem let us say you have a sannyasi they have money so according to what Prabhupada just is saying here is there a problem no there’s not a problem because it says in spite of performing apparently material activities such spiritualized persons are free from the bondage of work they go out they collect they have lots of money why do they have lots of money yeah because then they’ll use it in some preaching program they’ll collect a hundred thousand dollars and use it on a preaching program okay but now if we’re looking with this not spiritualized vision how will we see this he’s got the privilege he’s got the money he can fly around and do whatever he wants we’re grihasas we only get to go to India once every two years he goes two or three times a year this is nonsense we’re the ones so what do they see going to India as as a vacation so that means enjoyment so Swami is enjoying so much we poor grihasas are meant to enjoy it’s our birthright to enjoy we’re not enjoying in these nonsense sannyasis they’re getting all the enjoyment right does that make sense so this is where where we’re meaning it so then what will be the thing they’ll get together and have a meeting sannyasis shouldn’t have money if they don’t have money so the grihasas are going to get the hundred thousand dollars together and have the preaching program no let’s say that the sannyasi got the hundred thousand then he’ll spend how much on his preaching basically most of it there’ll be a little tickets here and there but when he goes here and there what does he do preaches okay and he may buy him a sweater this or that or a bag or something like that he has a fancy watch okay how much is that as compared to a hundred thousand not so much now let’s say the hundred thousand was gathered by the grihasta how much would go into that preaching program yeah ten percent and this is on a good day he’s in the class he’s being Krishna conscious yeah ten percent I’m just joking even twenty percent but the point is is this going to go it’s going to disappear so as far as service to Krishna that’s direct then the sannyasi having the money it will be used nicely but now the grihasta has money means he’ll be able to indirectly engage so many things in Krishna’s service which is also important so we’re not saying it’s not important but the point is is that it’s not as important as direct you know what I’m saying but if one’s absorbed in indirect one needs one needs to have the facility to do that but one shouldn’t mistake that they’re the same you know what I’m saying even though it looks very similar can be but there also cannot be is there any danger in the grihasta having lots of money so the point is is the danger is the same but the point is is the situation is probably going to be a lot less in one sense a lot less dangerous who’s who’s to inspire the sannyasi to misuse the money basically no one are the brahmacharis going to tell him hey Maharaj we could buy a Ferrari for this can you imagine us you know going down swamis saffron you know what I’m saying or is there a good chance his wife’s going to say you have that much we’re going around this car why don’t we get a better car he has a better car we’ve been in this zone longer than him why does he have the car you know right and then the kids what do they want right yeah you know they’re just happy oh I would love a Bhagavatam set for my birthday you know is that what the kids are all asking for they want their xbox you know they want this and that they want a new computer you know but he’s got you just got it six months ago that’s the point six months old it’s a dinosaur I can’t take this to school you know like that you know so so that’s the point so we make the mistake is seeing it apparently material because it looks similar because as we said the reflection always looks the same but you have to see the consciousness so that’s the point consciousness mind senses control it’s dear to everyone everyone’s dear to him but so then it works one’s not entangled so there’s a difference right but at the same time as these areas of entanglement we should be careful about right does that make sense excuse me you know you heard before the days of the Raj you know one of the gurus heard that he had something like 90 cashmere sweaters ok now why does he have 90 cashmere sweaters reanalyze he’s attached to buying them no he didn’t buy them oh they were all given to him so why would they be given because people like them people like them they’re they they want to do something it’s like you know you’ve given spiritual life what do you give in return right so they can give things right so being in Europe and not that and that’s what’s in you know so then they gave those now that they gave that many is that actually a problem no you know keeping that many that could be a problem right unless the guy really suffers from cold and has to wear ten at a time or something and then you have to wash them and it takes so many days you know like this remember Caesar he was a he was very much affected by cold he used to wear six togas at a time you know in the winter in Rome you know it doesn’t get that cold but you know he’d wear six togas just imagine what he was wearing in Gaul right three bear skins but so the point is is how much is actually usable that should be kept the others should have been given away right so if he got 90 and he kept you know three or four or whatever he needed or because he travels around so there’s a few in each place and then the rest he gives away to you know how you say deserving devotees you know whatever by service done or like this and that then it’s not a problem you understand so this whole but some will say no these things shouldn’t go on things shouldn’t be given because if you do then you’ll be corrupted but the point is is why would one look at that what that vision because it’s apparently material you understand so so these are very fine points you know you just walk by them and we go walk into meetings and we make decisions that are not supported by the bhagavad-gita you know and we take bhagavad -gita as the basis of our spiritual understanding you know and here we’re we’re in fifth chapter right fifth chapter we did finally get to fifth chapter okay so it’s fifth chapter so we haven’t even gotten to the end but we’re not even able to make these discriminations so this is why this is important otherwise why analyze like this right does that make sense we could just read it and go any questions we got a couple of points and move on this is what shanka is for shanka is to analyze and break it down so that we actually understand what we’re dealing with because if you don’t know the field how do you know what to do or what results you can get so if you don’t know that the field has all these elements and you can use them spiritually and materially then you’re left with what nothing then you’re like the karma the jnana yogi the mayavadis who do nothing you understand this is the point it’s very very simple right and as we mentioned advancement is based on what action and connection to krishna and knowledge faith we discussed a little bit before your question association so if there’s a problem that someone’s working on a on a high profile you know situation then they should make sure he gets lots of association someone’s doing so much then they should be given association not that oh it may go wrong that’s a pessimist everything goes wrong you know anything that’s like then how do you say you know then one’s sitting in the wrong place one should be in some little how do you say cafe on the sidewalk in Paris you know discussing you know various philosophies of you know how you say negative philosophies like that you know what I’m saying yeah so didn’t we already say that and why would I have to do that oh making no that’s a point but what’s the purpose of the point okay okay so it means means that we were saying what the other one could do and Prabhupada was doing it yeah okay Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur explains that there are three types of nishkama karma yogis those who have controlled their intelligence visudhatma those who have controlled their minds vijitatma and those who have controlled their senses jitendriya jitendriya among them those who control over their intelligence are in the best position right because if the intelligence is in control then it can control the others because the intelligence is in control of the mind and the senses right if someone is in control of the the mind then the mind itself will take help from the intelligence and it and therefore will control the senses right so if that’s there or if the senses are controlled to be able to do that means you have to actually have to some degree the mind or the intelligence right so in other words all three will have to be dealt with it’s just which is the prominence which is which is the entrance point of of control through intelligence you’re controlling you know all three through the mind you’re controlling all three or through the senses you’re controlling all three right but of the best of them the best is the intelligence because the intelligence that the knowledge is always there the sense you have control but then if something happens situation or something that one may lose control because the the mind also it accepts and rejects but the intelligence is there it’s fixed right so but the point is is all three will be accomplished you know knowledge is there to control the mind and engage the senses properly Srila Prabhupada translates sarva-bhutatma -bhutatma as compassion to all living entities it does not refer to a person who has become one with all other persons atmas because this was already rejected by Krsna in verse 2.12 moreover if there was only one atma the conversation between Krsna or Judah would have been meaningless right atma speaking to atma right make a movie atma atma talking to atma you understand so in other words the Mayavada is to say bhutatma-bhutatma means that that that the atma that’s become one with the with the atma like that so in the note in an attempt to defend themselves against the last argument I like that in the attempt they’re going to fail if they don’t make the attempt the impersonalists bring in the theory of badhita or badhita-anuvriti according to this theory ajivan-mukta one beyond duality can still teach others all other things although teaching implies duality right how they come up with this I don’t know you know so this is you know special duality right bhishud what’s it bhishud bhishud-dwait right instead of bhishud-adwait bhishud-dwait it’s purified duality ajivan -mukta somehow maintains a type of conditioned vision caused by remained remained remaining ignorance this ignorance however does not interfere interfere with his realization of brahman oh by remaining ignorance or remaining ignorant or by remaining ignorance what do you mean okay this okay the vaisnav commentators answer that even if such a theory was true the teaching could still not take place Sripada Ramanujacharya writes in his commentary to verse 212 the perception of water in a mirage and such other perceptions are undoubtedly a persistent continuance of what has been sub sublated sublated destroyed oh okay oh it means like sublimated and so okay it’s another form of the word okay that means what has been you know controlled or what has been conquered like that but they cannot be the causes of activities like fetching water from the mirage okay so here also the knowledge of distinctions which has been sublated by the knowledge of non-dualism cannot be the cause of instruction and other such and such such other activities though it may continue to persist for there is the conviction that it is a subject of unreal nature so in other words you can’t say that you’re on the transcendental platform like the Mayavadis you know on the Brahman platform everything is one at the same time as you can still preach within the realm of duality because the point is is that if you see everything as one there is no duality so how would you preach that’s why you say it’s not possible even if you accepted such a theory it’s not possible to apply because to apply it you have to see duality you know so the person he sees water in a mirage you know so that can be an impetus to understand that there is no mirage there is no water but to say that well I can go there and take up a bucket of water you know that’s not going to work right so one can’t function within the material environment using duality at the same time to claim that one is non-dual yes yes this is word juggling they just take it it sounds good so devotees use it also many times word juggling it’s just a matter of how you present the words it sounds great but in reality it can’t be applied they try to apply it of course the Mayavad is trying to they try to apply it but they don’t get the results so same way as any kind of word juggling one tries to apply it political correctness is word juggler you apply it but it doesn’t work right it doesn’t create social you know continuity and peace and satisfaction because it’s just juggling of words you simply picked a word that sounds better and so people don’t mind what you say right but it’s not a matter of diplomacy in that there’s this particular mood that’s appropriate for an activity so you use words within that right it’s not it’s not that because diplomacy is the normal its part is etiquette right but this is actually you’re trying to accomplish something through the use of those words rather than to create the environment you know so in other words the political correctness it’s the usage of the words that gets things done but that itself is not an activity so all that’s gotten done was your acceptance of it more than that it can’t be applied but the other is diplomacy means you’re establishing an environment in which activity will be performed and result will be great you see the the difference right you know so in other words it sounds great but it actually can’t be used you know so this is this is word juggling they take the the words and you know they try to in a philosophical way use you know what what is used in a joking way is challah you know you know it’s just you change the context of it and make a joke out of it so they use it as an actual philosophy you know so it’s it’s a you know that doesn’t mean that one doesn’t actually use words as the the right synonym for the situation you know that’s why vocabulary is there you know language is there that has the variety because as the situation changes then the definitions will also adjust so that means your wording will adjust but it’s not for a purpose other than enhancing that situation that’s based on scriptures for the purpose of Krishna consciousness yeah but this is this is this is how they juggle the words because it’s just like I say you know it’s just like the soul is Brahman and then the supreme Brahman so there’s no difference so the soul merges into the supreme Brahman and becomes one and they give example just like a green parrot then you know goes into a green tree right so it sounds great oh yeah you know there’s a green parrot in the green tree and yeah it’s all one but at the same time there is a parrot in a tree there’s still two you know so so like that it sounds good that’s that’s the word juggling because they simply adjust how they explain the words and all that just so that they get their purpose done that you understand but you can’t apply their philosophy it doesn’t work so that’s that’s the problem yeah you want something is it that mayavadis don’t use their intelligence they’re more emotional no they use a lot of intelligence but the problem is is that intelligence is misdirected they shy away from emotion but of course it’s ultimately the emotion of their god you know like that that need but the but they generally steer away from emotion and stuff so that’s why it’s very hard with them if you want to use examples you can’t use personal examples you have to use these you know things like that birds and trees rivers and oceans you know these kind of things you can’t really use people and stuff sometimes but you have to be very careful because they don’t understand understand emotions and relations is that what you’re saying yes in our philosophy we have something which sounds apparently similar that to preach you need to discriminate to be malyama and if we have even this parmahamsa parivrajagacchaya and how do do we explain this nicely so that it’s not doesn’t sound contradictory what’s contradictory because of this explanation it’s actually the self realized so going being being realized and then going to the platform duality but is it duality it’s not obviously yeah well the thing is is see is the difference is is here is variety in the mayavadi philosophy is illusion there is no variety it’s all just one all this stuff is not here it’s not this is not here right but if you understand actual brahman this is here it’s just a variety of brahman so the point is everything is brahman doesn’t mean that there’s not variety it’s just brahman that’s the essential element that you look at you know what I’m saying you know it’s just like you have so many cars but what you’re looking at it’s just it’s a car you can get it and drive but they’re all cars so you’re not distinguishing that you know this car is better than that car it’s just you know what I’m saying this is a truck ok you can put more things in it you know you know what I’m saying this is only a two seater so only two people can go in it you know you have 50 people you use a bus you know what I’m saying but they’re all vehicles that transport you from one place to another so that’s the common point so the common point is brahman there’s variety in brahman but it’s all brahman right but they say there is no variety so that’s why so the the point is is how does the devotee want to make the distinction on brahman right in other words is he simply seeing everyone as as the pure spirit soul is serving the Krishna and so functioning just on that platform so therefore there’s no need of interacting on any other platform right because you’re seeing the spirit soul or are you identifying the conditioned nature of the spirit soul and therefore you’re working with that aspect of brahman does that make sense yes so the point is is the Madhyama makes those distinctions so the Paramahamsa may come to that platform to make the distinctions to preach otherwise in his mind everyone’s a pure spirit soul that’s what he’s seeing so the conditioned nature is the covering so you don’t actually need to deal with the covering right but the Madhyama means to deal with the covering right that’s your access to the soul because the soul thinks they are the covering therefore if you want to access them you have to do it through the covering does that make sense so it’s not a matter of it’s unreal because it’s real it’s just the unreal is that they don’t see it’s connection to Krishna does that make sense yes so but for the Mayavadis there is no such real means there is no variety so for them to be on the brahman platform and see no distinction to the same time is work with distinction to work with the distinction means they have to be an illusion to do it right so how does that how can you be an illusion and be self-realized at the same time but for the Vaishnavas it’s a matter of illusion is simply not seeing it’s connection to Krishna so if you see the connection to Krishna there is no illusion so that means you can you can deal with or not deal with as is necessary does that make sense yes so that’s the difference that’s why their theory can’t work right therefore when it was achieved the vision of non-dualism cannot engage in the activity of teaching which requires a whole hearted belief in dualism but how do you teach because then you say I’m the teacher you’re the student here are the books here is knowledge we’re using words so there’s all this variety of things that you say are illusion so technically speaking in the pure sense Mayavadis any kind of impersonalist should never teach because just teaching itself is illusion why would there be a need to teach if it’s all Brahman why teach you understand so it’s illusory that they should and if they would take this up that would be great because then they would stop causing so much trouble does that make sense yes yeah but they’re in illusion because of their funny philosophy here like that what did you call it theory of badita anuvriti okay verses 8 to 9 action in Krishna consciousness is real liberation transcendental loving service to Krishna is beyond the ordinary work governed by the five immediate and remote causes the doer the work the situation the endeavor and fortune okay so here the doer means the living entity the work means what work needs to be done but that’s not the work then there’s the situation the work will be in a situation so you have to consider that because the situation will adjust your work right then the endeavor that you actually do what’s there so you see the first three are your sambanda then the endeavor is abhidheya then fortune is prayojana but now why do they use the word fortune by fortune sanction of the lord right means yeah that’s also there you can claim the result same time if you work you could in one sense claim but the point is is do you want to claim because the point is if you don’t claim and it’s for Krishna that’s a higher if you do the work and don’t claim and just leave it then that’s that would be called stupid right means you don’t need won’t do anything with the result why endeavor for it you know the point is is you do it for pleasing you know it’s like you make this this huge mandala you take months and months to make and then once it’s made then you pick up the corners and then merge it all together you know that’s stupid okay it’s detachment yes and it took a lot of good qualities to be able to do that work for months and all that of course when they do those big ones you generally see the press there and everyone’s taking pictures and all that so it is they did get some recognition but in any case they did so but that would be foolish there’s a waste the point is if you don’t aren’t going to do anything with the result why work for it so you work you get the result something should be done with it but the point is is that it’s given to Krishna or it’s already Krishna’s right then that’s that’s the point but still as he mentioned is that whether how the result will come that’s up to Krishna so that’s why the term fortune is used you know because if it’s your fortune you get it it’s not your fortune you don’t get it because even though you make the endeavor means the doer the work the situation the endeavor and fortune okay so there’s the work is there right you make the endeavor all right there’s the situation that you can see right but what about the situation you can’t see what about the situation in the last life or in some life you did something that for so many lifetimes you won’t get that particular result so no matter what endeavor you make you won’t get anything now but the point is if you don’t make the if it’s your duty if you don’t make the endeavor you won’t get anything in the future so therefore it’s fortune because it’s dependent upon the Lord so like that you know all of it is dependent upon the Lord and so the living entity thinks he’s the doer simply because he has the desire but it’s actually carried out by the modes of nature with the Lord’s sanction so ultimately you know the material energy it’s the material cause you know is doing it and then the Lord is the ultimate cause like that so then that everybody gets included I hear the words immediate and remote causes are used so is fortune the remote cause and the others are immediate um immediate is yeah but at the same time remote is also as the Lord is in the background right like that so he’s in the background of all of them why is why is the work the right work where did that come from which cause Krishna but in which which form of the four four causes why is that work the work to get that result right if we’re taking the result as Krishna it’s the formal cause right in other words it’s it’s Krishna as the goal that you’re trying to get or that fortune then then there is a there are the forms and the situations in which that could be gained right so that’s the formal cause that’s what his internal potency takes now because we’re an illusion then we look at all this and so then it appears to us as external energy right so therefore then we’re dealing with material cause not not the formal cause right so if you see a connection to Krishna you’re dealing you’re dealing with the formal cause though material energy is going to give you the result because that’s the form you’re dealing with you know what I’m saying so so therefore immediate and remote so the doer is the soul but ultimately the doer is these these other other three causes right the work the situation the endeavor those are all defined by the formal cause right and then then the fortune then that’s that’s that’s Krishna you know what I’m saying so but at the same time there will be in a result that’s observable so that’s also through the material cause and the formal cause so all of them are there at once but it’s just what’s the basis of them so you have the immediate remote is that okay okay so we’ll stop stop again stop Om Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

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