Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #19

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #19

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So, in this lecture, I’m going to give you a brief introduction to the concept of the Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Shanti, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Hare. The leaders of human society should know the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and should teach the common man how to follow it. They should arrange for proper diet and medicine that will cure the material disease. The real remedy for this disease lies in partaking of the remnants of offerings made to Godhead. This is the ideal diet for the spiritual patient. And the medicines include hearing and chanting and remembering the glories of Godhead, worshiping the transcendental form of Godhead, offering Him transcendental service, accepting Him as one’s supreme friend, and lastly, surrendering unto Him in all circumstances.

The leader should therefore arrange for this diet and these medicines. They really want to dissipate the sufferings of humanity, right? It’s from the message of Godhead.

So this is what leadership means. Leadership means is actually what is the problem. The problem is spiritual. Technically, it means you can’t really say there’s any material problem because a problem means something’s not going right. No? Material world means problem. So if there’s problem, it means the material world’s going correctly.

Right? Does that make sense? So there’s no material solution to a material problem because that’s what it does. Right? In other words, if there was problems and you wanted to solve the problems in the material world, it means that the problems aren’t enough. So by solving it, you make more problems. You understand?

So the only solution to the problem of material world solution to material problems is spiritual. It’s very, very important to understand this. There are no material solutions for material problems. There’s only spiritual solutions because the material solutions may put off the inevitable for a short amount of time, but the problem that you’re facing will come. It can’t not come. Right? Birth, death, old age, disease, that’s what the material world does. It doesn’t do something else.

Right? So you’re not going to solve those problems and make them go away. The only way is spiritual. That’s the only solution. So the difficulty is when we think, well, manipulate the material energy, that’ll solve our problem. No, it won’t. All it does is that whatever’s giving you a problem, now you adjust that. Right? You know?

It’s like you had, I think it was during World War II, the Japanese had this very ingenious, like, box and they would stick a whole bunch of people in the box. The box was designed in such a way that only one person could stretch out. The others had to be cramped up. You know? So, you know, always the persons in there would figure out that, okay, that that’s what you’re doing. They would take turns.

And so then, you know, so they’re all in this box and they would take turns on how much time that they would be crumpled up and how much time they could stretch out. So when it was your turn to stretch out, then one who felt this is very nice, you know, very comfortable, right? You know, you could stretch out and relieve the problem and everything like that. But, so it got rid of the problem of being cramped up for just then. But the point is this, you’re still in the box. So it’s just a matter of time before it’s someone else’s turn. Right? Does it make sense? So as you can do whatever you want in the world, even you get rid of the problem now. You work hard, you get your money, you get your house, you get a facility. But now do you have that money forever? Do you have that house forever? No. No. Something will happen and it will go and then you have to get another one.

Right? Does that make sense? You know, or, you know, you’re eating this food, you get bored of that, then you eat that food, it solves your problem. But it’s just a matter of time before it comes back in a circle. Right? How many kinds of food are there? Right? That’s the thing. You may think, oh, there’s so many. Oh, we’re so limited by eating Indian food. Why can’t we eat other food? Is anybody eating that many other foods? How many devotees do you know eat Lebanese cooking? Right? How many of you? I mean, unless you’re from the Middle East, you probably don’t even know what it is. Right? But that’s a distinct kind of cooking. Right? Italian, okay, everybody knows. How many actually know French?

You know? English we won’t even talk about, that’s not even cooking. But, you know, like that, you know, and then, you know, it’s like that. So you got a few things, some scones or something like that, that’s about it. You go across the American, what do they have? Right? A burger or something like that, and that’s it. You know, maybe a pumpkin pie, I think that’s unique. Right? Then you go down, you have Mexican, and then you have the South American kind of scene, what they do with beans and corn and stuff like that. Then you have the Oriental. Right? And then you have back to Indian. That’s it.

Is there something, did we miss something here?

Right?

No. So, that’s the point, is even if you say, oh, but you’re still restricted to these.

You know? I mean, we’re talking about something that probably has some culinary tradition, something to do with actually balancing with your lifestyle, you know, in the area, and probably even has a taste. We’re not talking about these new diets, you know, that come up with health food freaks, you know. Those don’t taste good, you know, but whatever. Does that make sense? But even if you add that, okay, then we have health food freak. Right?

Does that make sense? So, it’s still, you get tired of one, then you go to this one, then you go to that one, and then what happens? Then there’s no more. Then you have to come back to the same one again. You understand? So, he says, no, no, it’s something different, you know. Right? You know, wife needs some ornaments, some bangles and all that, so you’re going to get them, and that’s going to be the total need. But then, once you have that, then that’s not the need anymore. Now she needs saris. Okay? Then you get the saris. Then she needs a kid. Okay, then you have the kid. Then she needs, you know, it’s just going to go on and on and on. Why? Because that’s, it’s just the material sphere, you know. And then you think, okay, now the bangle things are done, and now she’s in the other thing. But then, once she’s gone to that, then it’s go back to the bangles again.

Right? You know, before it was many little kinds, little things, you know. Now it’s like, no, I don’t want all those varieties. I just want one kind. Of course, it costs ten times more than all those little dinky ones, but.

You understand? So there’s no material solution. You can’t solve the problems of the material world with any material solution. People are trying. Are they solving the problem? Right? No. You know, they eradicated, you know, polio or smallpox, and then they’re very chuffed, you know, and very happy, see what we did, you know, like this. And then along comes, you know, something else. Then comes AIDS, you know. Like that, you know. And then, you know, lurking in the corner, you still have Ebola and all those guys, you know, that, you know. But, you know, they’re just, they’re waiting, right? You know, AIDS is doing the work, you know. So there’s no need of these guys coming in yet, you know. So they just stick to, you know, catch some villager somewhere. Yeah, make sense? So this idea that you can solve the problem of the material world with material solution does not exist, right? It doesn’t exist. That’s all. But people are trying their best.

Because now, now let us say, no, but then Krishna is saying that, you know, you have your nature and then you must engage according to nature. But what is Krishna saying? Is he saying to Arjuna, you know, just fight to fight? What kind of fighting is he telling him to do? For Krishna. So that means it’s spiritual. It doesn’t mean the material energy won’t be used as a medium of interaction anymore. It means that it will be connected to the Lord, so it will be spiritualized, right? This idea that, well, spiritual means all in spiritual plane and here we’re in the material energy, so we have to do material things. No, you don’t have to do anything material here. Who says you have to do something material here? Right? Means it’s material energy, but you don’t have to do anything material with it. You can do something spiritual with it. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? You know, you may have a not very high quality knife and it’s not necessarily that sharp, but that’s what you have to work with and you have a pile of potatoes, so get to work, right? Now you may have this high grade, you know, ceramic knife and this and that, very, you know, expensive and all that. It’ll make it a lot easier. But does the work change? No. So the point is, is there are still trees and grass and cows and houses and, you know, families and is that, you know, the same thing they have in the spiritual world. Just here the quality of it isn’t as good. You know what I’m saying? There, you know, your husband or wife doesn’t die, you know, so the quality’s better.

You know what I’m saying?

Like that. So, you know, things are eternal there. Here they’re not. But the point is, is what you’re going to do with them is the same. You use them connected to Krishna, it has meaning. You don’t use them in connection to Krishna, it doesn’t have any meaning. Then it’s temporary.

Right? Does that make sense? Because, okay. Yes? So it’s very, very clear, it has to be very clear that then what it is, is we first have to be convinced that there is no material solution. We have to be convinced that, okay, we’re in the material world, so we’ll engage the material energy in Krishna’s service.

Right? Now how to do that, what’s the science of that, that’s what the Gita is telling us. So this first chapter here means the first thing, second chapter, that there is difference between spiritual and material. There is the soul. Right? There is such a thing as spiritual endeavor.

Right? There is that if you’re behaving on spiritual endeavor, you won’t be contaminated or controlled by the effects of karma.

Does that make sense? It doesn’t mean karma doesn’t happen, it’s just you’re not contaminated by it, you’re not controlled by it.

Right? In other words, anything that’s done gives a result, doesn’t matter if it’s in the material world or spiritual world. Point is, if it’s for Krishna, it’s good, if it’s not for Krishna, it’s not good.

Does that make sense?

So this chapter now is trying to tell us specifically how to engage that material energy.

So then the remedy is taking prasad and performing the nine angas of bhakti. That’s done. Right? Then things work very nicely. That’s not done, you’re not going to get cured very quickly.

In verse 24, the Lord defeats Arjuna’s argument that the war will be the reason for unwanted population. Krishna states that in fact, unwanted progeny appears as a result of neglecting one’s prescribed duties. So it’s not that the war is going to cause them, it’s people neglecting their duties is going to cause them.

Right? And so Arjuna, though he’s going ahead, okay, the kings aren’t there, so therefore the women may not perform their duties. But it’s the lack of performance of duties that’s the problem. So it’s not the war that’s going to cause the problem.

And the point is, performance of duties is still temporary unless it’s connected to Krishna.

So in any case, his non-performance of his duties isn’t going to make others perform their duties nicely. If the great Arjuna runs away from the battlefield, then what are other kings going to do? And if a king can run away from a battle, then what will be left that defines him as a king? His dignity or anything? Why will he do anything? Because the kings means they’re willing to take trouble for establishment of dharma.

Right? Does that make sense?

So that’s going to come from not performing your duties, neglecting one’s duties. And that’s going to give that material result. So his point is perform your duties in line with Krishna consciousness. So if he does that, he sets the example for others performing their duties in line with Krishna consciousness.

So if he’s worried about being the cause of something improper, then he should solve that by doing his duties in a Krishna conscious fashion.

26. The Lord explains that the ignorant should not be encouraged with words or example to stop their work. They should be instead engaged in positive activities for the gradual development of Krishna consciousness.

Śrīla Prabhupāda explains in Renunciation Through Wisdom, Those who hanker after the fruits of their actions undertake many hardships in executing their work. Their imagination wanders like an untethered bull, and all the while their mind dictates to them that they are the actual enjoyers. Therefore, without disrupting the minds of these fools, foolish, perverted karmīs, the intelligent person should engage them in doing what they are expert in and using the fruits in Lord Kṛṣṇa’s service. Such a course of action will automatically uncover the fruit of worker’s eternal relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa. So to instruct the people for their benefit, the servant of Kṛṣṇa, who is freed from the reactions of fruitive activities, will lead a life seeming like that of the fruitive worker, but actually he is all along performing karma yoga.

Right? You understand what’s going on here? But now in this, was there any compromise of the philosophy?

No. So would that be considered, you know, in the contemporary usage? Would this, what Prabhupāda is saying here, would this be considered fanatic? No. Or would this be considered quite liberal? Liberal. Yeah, but how is it liberal? Is it sentimentally liberal? It takes into account the nature of the person. Yes, so it’s scientific.

So this idea of giving up, the modern concept of liberal is just sentiment, it’s not intellectual. Otherwise it wouldn’t be called liberal, it’d be called broad-minded. There’s a difference. Liberal just means you move the narrow-mindedness from the right to the left. Broad-mindedness means you can accommodate both. Can liberals engage conservatives?

No. Can conservatives engage liberals? No. So that means only what is broad-minded can do that. So here we say, the point is that someone wants the result of their activities. They think they are the doer, they think they are the enjoyer. Right? So what’s that going to, if they have all that, what will be the scenario?

They’ll work hard and get a result. Now, the whole idea of karma yoga is, what are you doing? Offering the results of your work. So that means if there’s no work, there’s no results to offer. So the problem’s not really that they’re motivated to work hard.

The problem is, once they work hard and get the result, now what do they do with the result? Yeah, they want to enjoy. So that’s the problem. Working hard’s not the problem. The problem is the fruits they want to enjoy.

You understand? So now you’re leaving them in that position and engaging the fruits of their activity. So you convince them about serving the Lord by giving the results of your activities to Him. You don’t stop the work.

Right? Otherwise, if you stop the work, what’s His motive to do work? Because He thinks, I’m the controller and enjoyer. So if I’m not the controller and enjoyer, then what can I do? Yeah, so basically He won’t do anything.

Does that make sense?

Yeah. But actually, does that include things like, now we’re building this temple, we’re engaging also the people. They don’t really come and connect it to Krishna. No, but we’re connecting it. So they’re going to build this temple, they’re going to do all the work, and the result will be? For Krishna. But what will the result be? A temple. A temple. And so we’ll take that and use it for Krishna. But according to them, they also get purified just by being there. They get purified by, if they deal nicely with us, and stuff like that. But they’re doing it for money. But they’ll get benefit from being in the Dhamma. Like that. The point is, they won’t get as much benefit because they don’t understand what it is. If there’s someone there who’s actually thinking that, you know, this is going to be a temple for worshiping Krishna, and that I need to make my money so I’ll do my best work and go out of my way to do it nicely, then he’ll get benefit for that. But what would be, let’s say in this context, the proper engagement of those people? Why are you worried about those people? I’m worried about the temple president who someone comes and he says, you know, shave up, give all your money to the temple, sell your house and car, give all the money here, and then just stay in the ashram. And if they can do it, great. But the point is, generally most ashrams I go to, I see a bunch of lazy people.

You know, or if they are active, they’re out of Sankirtan, they’re very proud of the superiority to everybody else.

You go in, dirty, messy, filthy, falling apart.

No culture, you know, they don’t mind turning on the light, rustling plastic bags, making any variety of disturbance to anybody else. What is going on here? They don’t do anything. But after a few years when the guy decides, this is not for me, and moves out of the temple and goes back to whatever he was doing before, he’s making plenty of money and doing lots of things and getting lots of stuff done. What’s gone wrong here?

In other words, they haven’t been engaged according to their nature. Now you could say, well, no, but then how will they do Brahmacharya? But the point is, is that Brahmacharya is a training. So, okay, the person is very absorbed in their family life and they’re doing the different things like that, they’re not going to ask, you know, can I move into the temple? That’s not going to be of interest. It’s not going to come up. It’s not an option. But for some people it’s like, you know, I want more training and all this. Okay, so then, you know, move into the temple, spend, you know, this amount of time, six months, a year, three years, five years, get trained nicely. Then you know how to do things for Krishna. You know the philosophy, you have that service attitude, you purify yourself. Then if you continue in what you’re doing, then it has some, you know, benefit.

You know what I’m saying? So there’s some, and then from those you might find there’s going to be a few who can remain Brahmacharis, remain as temple devotees.

You know what I’m saying? Or I’m just being practical here. Because if you look at it, there’s 20 people connected with the temple. There’s about six or eight that actually live in the temple. And there’s 500 that live outside, that basically do very little or nothing.

Why is that? Because this point is not understood.

You know, and give the results means, okay, you give 50% of anything that you make. You know, but that’s also, it’s called gross. Gross means, you know, we haven’t even considered profit. But that’s what they’ll say.

You know what I’m saying? So it’s not understood as no, unless they get results. Right? The guy will do business for the temple. And then he takes it up and then, you know, he gives, you know, whatever it is that they stipulate. Then he’ll go with time, he’ll get inspired, right? Because he’s made some profit. He’ll figure out how to expand the business. He’ll make even more profit. Right? And so the temple will want to take even, you know, a greater proportion. Right? The point is, okay, out of this you made 100 bucks and we gave you 10 bucks. Okay? So now you’re making 1,000 bucks, but why do you need more than 10 bucks? And so how long will that Vaishya continue making money for the temple?

That’s why you don’t see any. You go around to all 400 temples, you won’t find any Vaishyas doing any business for the temple. Why? Because of this. He’s looking at it. 100 bucks, I got 10. If I make 1,000, I get 100. But the temple will go, oh, he’s materialistic.

But no, he may be, but that’s why he’s doing it. So instead of getting 90, you’re getting 900.

But no, they have to get 990. And this way, then they get zero.

You understand? Why? Because they’re not understanding how to deal. They don’t know how to apply medicine.

They don’t understand the patient. All it is is that the favorite thing is just sarva-dharmam pritiya-ja. That’s it. The temple president only needs one verse. Surrender everything unto me. That’s it. That’s all they need. And other than that, then there’s no need of anything else. And that’s why, how much is going on?

In fact, he’s acting according to his nature. He has his family. He comes at this time in the morning. He leaves at this time at night. Certain days of the week, you don’t call him. He turns off his phone. He couldn’t care less. Let the temple burn down. That’s my day with the kids. And stuff like that. But somehow or another, everybody else knows full surrender.

So this is the point. It’s that everyone according to their nature.

We’re not saying it’s ideal. Everyone moves to the temple. It’s great. But if you’ve got a city like New York, how many people there? Fifteen, twenty million? How many are going to move into the temple on First Avenue?

How many of that fifteen million are going to move in? Right? No. So most of them are going to be at their house. And the temple is going to be an inspiration for them. And someone who’s coordinating their endeavors.

Understand? So the point is, they are motivated. Because action only happens when there’s motive. And if that motive is to please Krishna, then it’s fine. So by karma then comes jnana and bhairava.

You get knowledge from karma. You get renunciation. If it’s done in the mood of nice karma. So bhakti means that. It’s the results for Krishna. So knowledge and detachment automatically come. Then they’re going to start seeing how materialistic they are in this endeavor.

And then they’ll start to adjust. So that’s why Prabhupada says automatic. Right? Such a course of action will automatically uncover the fruit of worker’s eternal relationship with Lord Krishna. You know? So what? It takes a few years, or five years, or ten years. But if it happens, it’s done.

That’s the whole thing. So you have to see what’s there. We have to remember. A hippie, he doesn’t have anything. His whole life is based on basically renunciation.

You know, an actual hippie is very renounced. They don’t have anything. They’ll share anything. You come in. Well, hey, that’s nice. And then he’ll give it to you. Or he’ll share it with you. Or like that. They stay here. They stay there. They don’t have any home. They don’t have any place. So for them to move into the temple, that would be natural for them. So therefore, you can say, as a class, all of them can shave up and move into the temple.

Right? As a class.

But, you know, if you’re talking about professionals and that, because they’re always, you know, I was just a hippie. Now I have to move with a professional. Like that. They’re not going to do that. They’re doing something. They identify with their work. They identify with the results.

Does that make sense? So there’s going to be a difference. And because of this, then you have to see the nature. Right? So if you find people that they don’t have any connections with the world, then for them, then why be floating around outside? Be in the temple.

You know. And for those others, then how much they can do connected to the temple is what they’ll do.

Yes.

Yes. How much to give. That’s the point. But it’s how much is their engagement. But philosophy, it’s, there’s one thing. We’re servants of Krishna. The point is, is just how much you are impressing on detachment and those other things, because those are secondary. Right? Twenty-six qualities of a devotee and the one where surrender to Krishna, that one is the It’s always there. The other twenty-five qualities may be there or not, like humility. Okay, let’s just as an example. When we think of Bhima, do we think of humility? Is that the first quality like springs to your mind? No. No. Like that. It’s not that, you know, before the Lord, but you don’t see humility manifest. You may see it in Yudhisthira, but you don’t see it in Bhima. You see? So it doesn’t matter. But that surrender to Krishna, that’s always there. Does that make sense? So that’s the point. Chanting Hare Krishna, surrendering to Krishna. That’s the point. Does that make sense? Now, what that surrender looks like, that will be different according to each person. Does that make sense? So in other words, just as we’re taking here this way is due to the negative connotation and all that, or the pendulum swing. See here, one doesn’t have to surrender in this kind of more fanatical way. But at the same time, it’s the other side. If one could, why wouldn’t one?

In other words, how much you can surrender, you wouldn’t do more than that. But at the same time, you wouldn’t do less than that. Because one prays, you know, oh, they shouldn’t do more than that. But they’re not saying you shouldn’t do less.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s the thing. There’s no balance. That’s the meaning of broad-minded. Broad-minded is balanced, so you can understand how much is there.

Right? Narada Muni goes and dakshas sons, right? I think it’s 10,000 of them or something like that. And he preaches because there’s an opportunity.

Right? Does that make sense? You know, he did that twice. And then when daksha had daughters, then he didn’t preach like that. Right? Different nature. Right? We don’t see him doing that everywhere. Right? When Narada Muni came down and spoke to the Pandavas, did he say, you know, give this all up, go to the forest? No.

So in other words, who means who could do what? That’s what they’re preaching to. Right?

So this you have to see. But based on what is before is that there is no material solution.

Right? So it’s not that, oh, you have to have a college degree and this and that because, you know, the material importance of it. No, it’s a matter if they have the nature like that, then that’s what they should do.

Right? And then work in, you know, their activities around that because otherwise they’re going to do that anyway.

You know, but I don’t see it. I mean, if that’s so important at the same time the preachers understood, do we have a system in our temples of, let’s say, during the three months of the summer that people could come in and get an experience in the temple, stay there, do activities, be involved? I mean, you have Ratha Yatra, you have Janmashtami, you have a lot of things happening at that time. You know, Harinams, preaching, so many things could happen. Is there such a thing? Right? What about Christmas? You know, some people go home. Some people don’t have to go home. It’s two weeks there. What about, I don’t know, Easter? You got that week, you know, that week or ten days or whatever it is. Yeah. Is that arranged that it’s there, that we can have these things, you can come and stay in the ashram and do these things, or come and spend more time at the temple and do activities? No. It’s all or nothing. Yeah, so it’s all or nothing. It’s not balanced.

Because by being in the temple, and by doing whatever they’re doing, the studies, jobs, it’ll become obvious what they need at that time. You know, it may be, that’s perfect, that three months was perfect, and they’re great until next summer. Looking forward to next summer, yeah, that was fabulous. Like that. Others will go, why am I outside? Why aren’t I in the temple all the time?

But unless they can compare, then how do they see?

Right? This means then there’s something going on. There’s something dynamic.

You know? Yes? This would give an environment of safety for the person to decide. Yes. Otherwise it doesn’t have the safety environment, it just feels threatened by… Yes, it’s one of the… Completely gross sense gratification, you know, independent or completely, you know, like this, there’s nothing in between. You know what I’m saying? That’s what we’re talking about, is devotional life means you understand the full range.

And if you can understand the full range, then you can engage everyone according to their nature.

You know what I’m saying? Someone who’s, you know, unmarried, doesn’t have any specific, you know, obligations or this and that, but is very intelligent and very dynamic and everything like that, doesn’t necessarily… Then you’re talking, here looks like someone who could… You know, maybe that’s a better option for them. Someone who has a family, is involved in that, you don’t say, hey, forget all this maya, move into the temple.

You know what I’m saying? So you have to know what you’re looking at. So that takes intelligence, that takes… So that’s where Prabhupada says the expert.

Says the intelligent person should engage them in doing. Right? That’s the point, says intelligent. So what’s real intelligence?

Right? Push the concept. Brahmanists? Yeah, brahmanists. So that should be the direction.

Right? Because the point is, is your managers should have advice of senior men who are intelligent.

Because being involved in management, sometimes you don’t connect it always to the bigger picture, or you think it is connected, but being practical, then sometimes you don’t see the importance of certain things of etiquette or culture or… You know, in other words, to do certain things with more philosophical consideration or culture might take you longer. So as a good manager you’ll think the shorter… management’s the point, so managing the shorter one’s better. But you don’t understand that then you lose something longer. That’s why it’s always the combination.

Right? That combination between intelligence and activity. Right? And that’s Bodhi Yoga, right?

Okay.

The ignorant thinks, so one will think he’s a karmi. I mean, still, I guarantee you, you’ll find it’s still a problem. Many temples still think the community’s in maya. No, the community is another place to preach, another place to engage. It’s kind of like if you’re in a temple, you’re a friend of the temple, or if you’re in the community, but you’re giving all your money to the temple and do what they say, then you’re okay. But this idea of Karma Yoga is not at all understood.

Right? How to be… How they can be engaged in whatever way they can.

To whatever degree. So you’re going to have degrees.

You understand? It’s just a very simplistic little thing and that’s it.

It has to be more horizontal with different groups. No, vertical you have to have. It’s not that you can’t add the horizontal. The vertical has to be there.

But what does the vertical relate to? In people’s minds, what does vertical mean? Okay, yeah, of course, Krishna. But I’m saying, let’s say on the material platform. Hierarchy, but what does it afford? Authority, which affords…

Protection, facility.

Domination, prestige. These are all the things that are complained about. And if you do things sideways, then how much of that do you get?

Very little. So, now, if you’re looking at material solutions, then what are you going to be using? What kind of intelligence?

Vertical, yes. Because it means you’re going to be using material solutions because you’re using material intelligence. Use spiritual solution, then you’ll see that the vertical is maintained and expand the horizontal. Do you know what I’m saying? But the point is then, because even if we’re using material, we’ll say, well, the vertical is the problem. We have to go to horizontal. Great, if you, you know, wear a beret, you know, you sit in a little cafe, you know, drinking your cup of something and smoking your, you know, exotic Moroccan cigarette or something, and talk all day, it works fine. But in reality, you know, the world runs that you have to have the vertical. The vertical there, that creates a structure, then you can add on to it the horizontal.

Does that make sense? So, one has to be very, very careful that in trying to do one, the other would go. You know what I’m saying? Because otherwise, you bring that point up, that could resonate and some person says, yeah, that’s the problem, that’s too much, we’ve got to put more into this, so what does that mean? Not put into that. No, the hierarchy has to be there. Prabhupada established that. It’s just the way it is. But it has to function so it can broaden.

Yes?

Many years ago, I heard a quote where Sri Prabhupada said that he wanted independently thoughtful men in autonomous centers.

And when the leaders at that time tried to centralize the power of the movement, Prabhupada was very much against that, in fact. He disbanded the committee at one point for that attempt. So it seems to me that it could be a broader base, and it rhymes with every town and village. If you’re going to reach so many different people, the Americans can’t control everything, or some small group can’t control everything. It has to be more diversified. Really? It’s not that they can’t?

I’m going to have to think this one over.

No, but this is what I’m saying, is that it puts the emphasis so much the other way.

Hierarchy doesn’t mean centralization.

You know what I’m saying?

Hierarchy, centralization is one group’s, you know, the mundane group’s thinker, or it means way of thinking. I’m not saying mundane, let’s say the manager’s way of thinking, because it appears that it’ll work much better, right? Because for them, they can control so many things, so it works. But the point is, is they’re one person.

Everybody else stops thinking when they go into such a thing, and they forget it’s their thinking because they’re on top, they’re responsible. But the guys farther down, they’re not responsible because they’re centralized. So where is their initiative? So it’s lost. So the point is, is the individual engaging his body, mind, and words to think how to serve Krishna. Then that’s all. But when he says an autonomous center, so does that mean everybody in the center also is autonomous? No, it’s working perfectly under the centralized management of the temple president. You understand? So that’s why it’s very, one has to be very careful in approaching this, that one has to know where the centralization works because they’re trying to centralize it on the GBC level. But the GBCs aren’t the, they’re not in that position specifically because of managing skill. They’re in that position because of standards.

You understand? There’s no bureaucracy on that level. There’s no centralization on that level other than they have an area that they see that all the standards are there. The centralized concept comes at the president’s level. But even that he has to be very careful because then he has to understand is just as he has a temple, it doesn’t mean that that city can’t have another 10 or 20.

You know, but don’t think, okay, I’m in this city and it’s the only temple in this state so the whole state’s mine. No, it’s how much you can actually deal with that’s yours. You know? But otherwise it should be that how much can function. If you had 20 million people in New York, how many temples could you have? Quite a few. But because they’re not actually organizing that well, therefore, unless they have the whole thing. You know what I’m saying? So that’s the difficulty. So the point is, is that everybody should be engaging their nature in Krishna’s service. And centralization does not do that because a temple president means he’s independent and he’s independent as a manager but not independent as a player in the preaching mission. He has his authorities. And those authorities means GBC, that they see that the standards by which he is exercising his independence is going in the right direction. That’s what the GBC is supposed to do. So this centralization means that you take what the temple president should be doing and move that up to something higher. And so the temple presidents, instead of being independent managers, basically become, you know, high-grade administrative shudras. Right? If you take the Arisan kingdom at the time of Lord Chaitanya, then Maharaja Prataparudra was the king. So he’s the independent ruler. Now, that kingdom was very big so it had many areas.

And so it stretched all the way down to Madras. So, you know, basically your state of Tamil Nadu, that was under the control of Ramananda Raya as the governor.

Right? But he felt himself not very well situated because, you know, in talking to Lord Chaitanya as a sannyasi and a brahmana, because he’s a shudra. So this is the whole point. You understand the Varanasi, you couldn’t do this because then you’re turning the temple presidents into shudras.

But at least you had, here’s a man in charge, he’s responsible, here’s another man who’s responsible. But now they’re going even farther, turning into committees. So the centralization is a committee who has no responsibility.

And then the temple president is just supposed to do what they say. So this has nothing to do with Varanasi. It has nothing to do with management. These are the… It means those plans were plans of actually good managers. These modern ones are contemporary ones. These are plans of people who are not managers at all. Or if they are managers, they don’t know what they’re dealing with. They need someone above them to tell them what to do. You understand? But the hierarchy of Prabhupada’s teachings, the parampara, the GBC, the temple president, and the department heads, that cannot be compromised in any way. But it has to be understood as what is there, what’s going on. So just as in the same way as the GBC is seen to the general work in his zone, at the same time as he doesn’t manage it, the presidents manage it. But the president should be in that same flavor than he has department heads who he’s seen that are doing the right thing and holding together in that plan of the temple. Same time, there is more direct management control. But still, you have to… You know, if he’s good at sankirtan, he’ll come up with ideas that you won’t because you’re thinking of other things. So if he’s a good idea, let him have it. Not that, well, it wasn’t my idea, therefore, it won’t go that way. Does this make sense? So there’s a culture there. That’s why if you don’t understand the philosophy and the culture, it won’t make sense. So if you don’t understand Varanashram, it won’t make sense. If you don’t understand how Kshatriyas and Brahmins work, that relationship, you’ll never understand temple presidents and GBC. If you don’t understand king and ministers, you’ll never understand the temple president and the people he works with. If you don’t understand the king and the community and the citizenry, you’ll never understand the temple and the community. So these are all… The problems that devotees are making, they’re all cultural. They’re not philosophical. They’re purely cultural. So they don’t understand the culture. And they’ll say, oh, it doesn’t apply now. No, it doesn’t apply in their own mind. They are unable to understand it. Therefore, they are unable to use it. And therefore, they are not getting the result.

That’s all. Very simple.

That’s the point. It’s so simple, it’s actually scary to these people.

Is that okay?

That’s another thing, but that’s another discussion. Here we’re talking about engaging. So people who have this nature that they want to work in a corporation, they feel safe in a corporation, then they should position themselves where you can apply corporate elements.

But it’s not on the Brahminical level. It’s not on the GBC level. It’s down below that. They may have some ministers that do this and that, but that’s just to get their work done. But that doesn’t control it.

You know what I’m saying? It doesn’t control. Bureaucrats don’t control Brahmins. Bureaucrats don’t control Kshatriyas. Bureaucrats are controlled by Brahmins and Kshatriyas.

So those who speak bureaucracy and who are good at the bureaucracy, they have to understand their position is below those who they’re complaining about that aren’t that efficient.

Leadership. In other words, Prabhupada’s trying to establish leadership. Because ultimately, he’s talking about in the community, one person, he preaches to ten people. You know, have them come to his house and program, so they move around. In other words, coordinates that. And each one of those will have ten people that they’re preaching to. And each one of those ten people. So like that, then after, you know, you know, four levels, you already have ten thousand people.

That’s a lot. That’s just in the community. We don’t have any communities that big that are all dynamically engaged. So it’s a very simple system. How does Vishistha or Durvasa have ten thousand disciples? Because of this system. It’s a very simple system.

Romans were expert because they used the same system. You know, but they used it in war. Does that make sense? So everybody is doing something. There’s no such thing as someone who’s just in charge and doesn’t do anything. Right? Now you have someone who’s deity worship minister, but he’s not doing deity worship. He’s not responsible for any deity worship. You know? Or you have this committee that, you know, governs the presidents, but they don’t themselves have a temple.

It doesn’t work like that.

You know what I’m saying? That everybody has to have their field.

You know what I’m saying? So then it works. So that’s what is being meant here, is that whatever the nature, whatever it is in any direction, that’s what you have to deal with. And you have to know how to engage that in Krishna’s service, but as a complete culture.

You can’t overemphasize one or the other. Yes. Is that okay? Yeah? Okay. Yeah. Yes. So in this hierarchy of management, should the leaders on each level, when they’re making plans, they have some freedom to make plans. Should they consult with the one on the next level before they proceed with the plans? Yes, basically. Unless it’s an area that they’ve been told, you know, they don’t have to. Like, let’s say, you know, you have someone, let’s say, out on Samkhetan, and he comes up with some ideas. So does he just implement them, or he works it out with the Samkhetan leader?

Samkhetan leader, he has his ideas. He works it out with the president. President has some ideas that are going to go bigger than just what he’s doing on day-to-day. Then, by running it past the GBC, you can see that it’s consistent, that maybe something’s not thinking about. You know what I’m saying? But, at the same time, as they have their mandate, what they do that they don’t have to ask about. Right? You know, the Samkhetan leader doesn’t have to come to the president and go, can we fill the book boxes today? You know? Yes, yes, you can fill the book boxes. You know, no. There’s certain things that he does. He knows, it’s standard stuff he does. It’s when you want to expand, especially if your expansion may go into other, overlapping with others’ areas. It’s out of your jurisdiction. So, you’re always going to have that cooperation. And the GBC, they have their preaching program. They’re supposed to establish more temples and expand and see that the preaching is going on. And once the temple’s established, then they see it’s going properly. But just that they don’t have any responsibility other than they’ve got ten temples. No, that’s not. They’re supposed to have their own project, their own preaching.

Because if they’re preaching, others can preach. If they’re just sitting and, you know, watching what people are doing, naturally, then the next level down watches.

Right? Everyone wants to be like the big guy. Right? Does that make sense? So, that’s the point.

Yes. Yeah, you should lead and set the example. Because the point is, you’re either motivated to, so, therefore, that’s the best thing for you to do, or you’re not motivated, so, since you’re not motivated, so, it doesn’t matter to you. So, you can do it or not do it. So, why not do it to set example? Why would you give it up? You know what I’m saying? Unless you’ve completely given up any need for anything that’s there. Maybe you don’t have to control the environment like that and everything and, you know, the fruits from it is what you’re looking for, but it’s a comfortable environment for you to work in because that’s what your skills are and that’s what your ability is. So, it’s very comfortable to do that for Krishna. Does that make sense? Right? In other words, someone started managing because they just wanted to be the big guy and be in control and their own security and their own facility, but once he gets purified and that’s not his motive, then what else would he do for Krishna? Since doing for Krishna is engaging body, mind and words. So, as a manager, he will still manage for Krishna.

You understand? But now his motive is to please Krishna. Well, before it was kind of like, you know, he’s willing to dovetail his own needs in line with Krishna.

You understand? So, for him to say, oh no, that’s Maya, so give it all up. No, but you have to work in an environment anyway. So, why not work in that environment that is natural for your conditioned nature?

You know, you just find how it works. In other words, you find that situation in which it can be perfectly applied. Right? Give one funny story.

You may have heard it before. There was, you know, all these devotees were coming to India for the festival, you know, back when they kind of like all worked together like that. And so then, at this time it was like from America, then they had come to London and from parts of Europe they were coming to London. From there they’re going to go on one plane to India, you know. We had the whole plane. I don’t think there was anybody else on the plane. Right? And so, when we were in London, then because it was like, I think, next day or something like that we were going to go or there was something that was there, so everyone was going to shave. So, there was this one devotee who was, you know, shaving all the devotees. And in basically a minute and a half he could shave your head perfectly. Not a cut, not a scratch, not leave one hair. And the guy was so good and so fast. While he was shaving me, I said, wow, he’s so good at this. Did you used to be a barber before? And as he’s shaving he goes, no, a butcher.

You know? So, you know, here he’s perfectly engaging his ability, but in a more purified, you know, form. Like that. Yeah, and that was probably the best, probably the best barber I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen anyone shave that quick.

And this was with a straight edge. He was using a straight edge, not these, you know, little blades and stuff. He was using a straight edge.

Okay. The ignorant thinks that he is the only doer. Verse 27. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana comments, The jivatma with a body made of knowledge, samvit, has a sense of I, and is actually the doer. But overcome with impressions, vasana, of enjoying material sense objects from beginningless time, he is embraced by Prakrti, who is situated next to him, and who is the cause of his pleasure. Through false ego, a product of Prakrti, he becomes bewildered, devoid of knowledge of the self, thinking himself to be a material body. He then thinks that activities which are accomplished by the Lord and the material body, senses, and life airs are being done by himself. The doership of the Atman is only made possible by the body, senses, and life airs, and by the Paramatma, who is the activator of all things. The jiva is not the only factor. That the jiva thinks that he is the only doer is a result of bewilderment from false ego. Bhagavad-gita 18.14 We see here, it’s very clearly being brought out, is that the jiva, whose body is made of knowledge, then he does something, it’s him doing it, because the body is an expansion of him. So he thinks, I want to serve Krishna in this way, then it works in that way. But here, the jiva is so small, it’s not doing anything, but it has a sense of being the controller and enjoyer. So having that sense, then he is befriended by Maya. And then the false ego is part of her.

So he taking on that mentality, I am the controller and enjoyer, and then she is making all these arrangements.

The body is produced from one’s karma, and one thinks, I am controlling it, but it’s the body, the senses, the life airs, all that is being arranged.

Sanctioned by Paramatma, and carried out by her. So she does all this. And the jiva thinks, I am the only one doing all this. So he is not saying, he is not doing something. He is saying, he is not the doer. It means that when there is ten elements involved, and you are one of them, and the smallest of them, then it kind of becomes false ego, to think I am the doer. Because all it is, is the soul desires. But he doesn’t do it. The body is not him. The senses aren’t him. The life airs aren’t him. The sanctioning by the Lord is not him. And then the modes of nature, arranging it, are not him.

So he has the desire, but actually, other than desiring it, he is not doing anything.

Does that make sense? So when the desire is for sense gratification, then he becomes entangled. When the desire is to please Krishna, then he becomes purified.

Then one can come to the platform, where one’s desire is only about serving Krishna. Therefore then, you want that, you have the spiritual form, you are doing it.

You understand? Does this make sense? Yes. So is the first sentence in this fashion, describing the jiva who is not conditioned? Yes. He says, but overcome with impressions, vasana, of enjoying material sense objects, from beginningless time, he is embraced by Prakriti.

But notice here, here’s a clever usage of words here.

Beginningless time.

You understand? Is time beginningless?

That’s the point. Because in the spiritual world, there is no time. It’s very clear. Brahma Samhita says, there is no time. There’s a sense of time, but there’s no time.

You understand? So time is something of here. So all this fighting over this beginningless time, and Anadi and all that, this is by people conditioned by time and space.

That’s why it said, don’t worry about it. If it makes sense, great. If it doesn’t make sense, don’t worry about it.

You know what I’m saying? Like, are you hungry now? No. No, okay. But if you don’t know, I don’t know if I’m hungry or not. Can any amount of intellectualization figure it out? No. You’re either hungry or not. You know it or you don’t. So it’s like that. You understand the nature of the soul, how it came into the material world, or you don’t.

That’s all. So if you don’t, don’t worry about it. And if you do, you’re not going to worry about it anyway, because the point is, is getting out of here, not how you got in here. And getting how you got in here is how you’re going to get out. So the process of getting out is the same way you got in. You just reversed it.

Right? Does that make sense? You know, you got in your car, you put it in reverse and went the wrong way. How do you correct it? You put it in forward and go forward. It’s the opposite. So how everything comes in, then that’s how it goes out.

But they get all caught up in all these different things of time and space. So it’s a problem. Okay? Does that make sense to you? So the doership, he’s not the only doer. So all he’s doing is desiring in this. Everybody else is actually doing it.

His only action is desiring this.

Yes. Because it’s connected. The point is, it’s being arranged here by the external energy. So she’s the one that comes and makes friends. You know, but in the spiritual world, then it’s the spiritual energy. So it’s still through their arrangement. But you’re able to actually take part. You know, here it’s just you can sit and desire. And because you’re so used to when you desire something happens, you think, I’m doing all this. You know? It’s like the, you know, adult playing with the kid. The kid goes and does something. You know, wants to do something and the adult makes it happen and then the kid thinks, I did all that. You know? You know, it’s like when you have a fight. You know, the kid goes like this. You know, nothing happens but the adult falls over. You know, stuff like, so the kid actually thinks, I’m doing all this. So that’s what happens. So since time immemorial, if you’re doing that, then you start to think, hey, I’m the doer. You know? When actually it’s just Maya’s there, you know, you know, doing all this.

You know what I’m saying? You understand the subtleties here? You know, trying to break down the thing but it’s not being broken down so it’s like then there’s nothing. So the whole thing is still on activity in that and he opens with, the soul in this position is actually doing something. Right? But in this, he’s not.

Come on in. It’s very common for us to use, we have to fight Maya. Fight Maya. Yes. So what is this fight Maya?

You have to fight with your toaster.

What is it that you have to fight? A toothbrush.

You know, what does that mean, fight Maya?

Declare war. But what does that mean? War against what? Material energy. The material energy is the problem.

Is the sense gratification the problem?

The way we look at it is the problem. So Maya means illusion.

So it’s war with Maya means war with the illusion that what I’m looking at I think is different than what it actually is. In other words, I look at material energy and see unlimited opportunities for sense gratification. But no, it’s unlimited opportunities to serve Krishna.

So the problem is not the material energy.

But Maya Devi, she was… By? Maya Devi. Maya Devi. She was complaining that to Lord Sri Dharma that all you devotees forsake me and nobody wants to associate with me so therefore… Yeah, because… Yeah, that’s there. But the point is they don’t want to associate with her. Who are they associating with? Lord Sri Dharma. No, but still, Lord Chaitanya is just him directly. It’s just Lord Chaitanya just floating in the space. You know, that perfect Hindu calendar. I mean, you have to add in a few clouds and home signs. But you know, that’s it. No more of that. That’s exact. You know, that’s extreme. So how are they associating with Lord Chaitanya? Through the eternal energy. Yeah, Yogamaya. So are they not the same person? Yeah. Yeah. So in other words, she was saying as a glorification of the devotees that the devotees are only associating with me as Yogamaya. No one wants to associate with me as Mahamaya. So how special they are.

But Mahamaya, she has her own personality also. Like Simhadai, Yeah. It’s like the man is at the office and the man is at home. You know, at the office he has to deal in a certain way. At home he deals in another way. It’s the same person.

Does that make sense?

Like that.

Because conditioned soul imagines himself independent and takes full credit for his illusory achievements. His only goal in life is sense gratification.

Because if you take full credit, you get full benefit. If you don’t take full credit, it means you’ve got to share it. Right? So he’s never really wanting to share.

On the other hand, the person in knowledge understands the difference between activities of sense gratification and those of devotional service. Verse 28. Although he is active, he is not entangled in karmic reactions. Because he’s not interested in the results, he doesn’t take credit for his work and for his achievements. He understands by the mercy of the Lord and the results are for the Lord. Therefore, same activity, same results, different effect on the consciousness.

Such a person always keeps himself aloof from close association with this phenomenal world. For he aspires to elevate the soul to its original spiritual position. He understands that the soul has come into contact with matter only by a freak arrangement. Therefore, although his ears, eyes, and other senses are involved in this phenomenal world, he refrains from material activities. So here when we say material activities, what do we mean?

Karma, which means? Yes.

So in other words, it means the illusory aspect. So when we say material world or material energy, we’re referring to the illusory aspect.

Right? But technically, in other words, it’s the environment or the field of this illusory mentality.

But the energy itself is just external energy.

In other words, it’s not material, it’s just external. It’s not conscious.

It’s inferior because of that lack of consciousness.

But it’s not material as such. We make it material by seeing it in relationship to ourselves as the enjoyer. That’s why later we’ll see Krishna says that the jivas are maintaining the universe. Because others say, no, Krishna maintains. He maintains everything that’s there, but actually why, what’s going on, why that tree is over there now is because of us. Because we have this idea of karma and this and that, therefore it’s in that place. Right? That jiva itself, that’s what it deserves. Or we think, you know, this is my control. Something like this. Do you understand? So we maintain the universe that it’s going on. Because if everybody was Krishna conscious, would there be a need of maintaining the material world? No. So that’s the point. So the jiva thinks it’s the controller. So therefore all this goes on. So the material actually simply means that we see it with material consciousness. Does that make sense now?

In verses 30 to 31, Krishna describes the means for achieving such a liberated state.

In verse 19, Krishna told Arjuna to perform his duties with detachment. Now in verse 30, the Lord reveals his actual desire. Arjuna should fight surrendering all activities to Krishna with full knowledge of his supreme position, without desires for profit and claims for proprietorship and free from lethargy. Full knowledge and freedom from material desires and lethargy indicates that Arjuna should be situated above the modes of nature.

With this verse, Krishna introduces the point that nice karma should be performed for his pleasure. Full knowledge means you’re talking about, you know, it means you have knowledge, that’s goodness. So full knowledge, that will put it up to, you know, that will transcend then goodness. Material desires, that will be passion. Lethargy will be ignorance, right? So there’s always these combinations of terms used like that because they’re representing everything, right? And so because each one of these has so many qualities, sometimes the combinations are different. You know, just like we were reading about the five kinds of, you know, what karma is done by, sins committed by itching, sins committed by rubbing, sins committed by starting a fire. Rubbing, that means when you get a massage, you know, or you’re patting your kid on the head, you know.

You understand? We have to understand the implications here. You know, so these things are, how do you say, cover everything.

That’s the whole point. So this angle though, covers it like that, but in others it’ll be, instead of rubbing, it will say, using a mortar and pestle.

But then from that, we may not understand the essential point is the rubbing, you know. So in other words, that’s the point from there because everything would work by that. But if not, then you take it from this.

Does that make sense? So like this then, you know, here, it says, starting a fire. Manu will mention about cooking. Because to cook, you have to start a fire.

You know, so it’s not, you know. And then it says, you know, how you say, pouring water from a water pot. You know, so anytime water moves, it’ll kill living entities.

You know, does that make sense? So it’s, it’s just different angles of looking at the same thing. So that’s what the vichar is for, is bringing out these different angles. Because everybody has read, everybody’s studied, everyone has contemplated. So that will be different according to their nature. So some will have a realization more in one area, some in another. So you discuss, so you see the commonality, you see how this all fits together. So it’s not different things. Right? It’s just deepening or broadening the understanding of what’s already there. Does that make sense?

Okay.

With this, okay. Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport, This verse clearly indicates the purpose of the Bhagavad-gita. Lord instructs that one has to become fully Krishna conscious to discharge duties, as if in military discipline. Such an injunction may make things a little difficult. Nevertheless, duties must be carried out with dependence on Krsna, because that is the constitutional position of the living entity. The living entity cannot be happy independent of the cooperation of the Supreme Lord, because the eternal constitutional position of the living entity is to become subordinate to the desires of the Lord. Arjuna was therefore ordered by Sri Krsna to fight as if the Lord were his military commander. One has to sacrifice everything for the goodwill of the Supreme Lord, and at the same time discharge prescribed duties without claiming proprietorship.

And if there is any reluctance to execute such a stern order, which is without consideration of so-called kinsmanship in the bodily relationship, that reluctance should be thrown off. In this way, one may become vigata-jvara, or without feverish mentality or lethargy.

So in other words, what we see is this dynamic element, because if something is not dynamic, there will be no results, and if there’s no results, there’s nothing to offer.

So now we see is that due to ignorance, that gets in the way, because lethargy means ignorance. So why won’t one do something? Because one is in ignorance.

So one doesn’t know. So he’s in ignorance about the relationships, what’s actually going on, the nature of the soul, the Supreme Lord, devotional service. Therefore, he’s lethargic. As soon as he’s not lethargic, then it’s good. Do we glorify Arjuna for fighting on the battlefield, for being successful?

Do we glorify him for sitting down in his chariot and saying, I will not fight? No. So the point is, when nothing’s going on, when one is glorified, because he is actively getting some results.

Does that make sense? Now, one may say, okay, well, what about the person who’s not engaged in the material endeavor? You know, like the yogi or the saintly person who’s not materially involved. So, but we’re glorifying him because of the non-involvement. Right? But the non-involvement, why is it mentioned? Why do we need to mention the non -involvement?

Yes, he’s done a higher meditation, so he’s replaced it. But why does it mention?

Yes, so you don’t get distracted. Why do we have to worry about distraction?

Yes, because we’re distracted. So therefore, we have to mention. He’s not doing any material activities. And we’re like, wow, what’s that? You know, that’s strange. You know, if we just say, yeah, the guy, all he does is chant Hare Krishna all day and read Bhagavatam and preach, and that’s all he does. He doesn’t do anything else. Then it’s kind of like, well, nice. You know, but, you know, what about, you know, the fan, this, that?

Does it make sense? We’re applying the difference. This is pointing to the… Yeah, the difference. In other words, it’s just like this. We say, do this, it pleases Krishna. Like, let’s say, go to Mangalartik, it pleases Krishna. It makes Krishna happy. Right? You might go, you might not go. You know? If I say, by going to Mangalartik, then, you know, it’s Brahma Muhurta, it’s the best time of day, it’s the best time for spiritual upliftment and for purification.

Then, that might give more, okay, now I see some benefit. Yeah, it pleases Krishna. Okay, nice. But, you know, here’s, you get, you know, we say, you know, going to Mangalartik, you know, it purifies ones of millions of lifetimes of sins and this and that. It might be something more. Right? And then if we think, okay, going to Mangalartik is good, so if I go to Mangalartik, then that will be auspicious for me. Therefore, my day-to-day life will go nice. Right? If something goes wrong in your day-to -day life, the kids weren’t behaving, something went wrong, something happened in the community, you know, that affected you, then you might think, wow, maybe it’s because I didn’t go to Mangalartik today.

You understand?

You know, and then you get down to the one, say, if you don’t go to Mangalartik, then, you know, you go to hell, there’s that block. Right? So, at some point, there has to be something to inspire you.

You understand? So, we see is that devotees generally don’t do something just because it pleases Krishna. Because they are distracted by the material engagement. So they’re going to see the activity of material engagement in connection with Krishna, but that’s the whole process, and then getting the results from that, that’s what’s going to be seen. Does that make sense? So the karma yoga will be more of the impetus. You know, or the jnana yoga.

Does this make sense? So that’s why it will be mentioned in that way.

Because it’ll be given, you’re saying that they’re, but the actual point is that they’re not engaged in the material activities, means what? They’re engaged in spiritual activities.

Right?

The sincere devotee is assured of success even if he is unable to follow all his obligations perfectly.

There are many philosophers who write comments on the Bhagavad Gita, but have no faith in Krishna. They will never be liberated from the bondage of fruitive activities.

But an ordinary man with firm faith in the eternal injunctions of the Lord, even though unable to execute such orders, becomes liberated from the bondage of the law of karma. This is… Gopal Chopra didn’t take very kindly to this one. Because they’re trying to… For them, liberation is the goal. So it’s very difficult. And as we say, as we pointed out here, who don’t have faith in Krishna, they’ll never be liberated. So there’s only talk. Right? Think about it. All the scriptures you’ve read, all the stories you’ve heard, who have you heard of that was actually liberated?

No, but he’s a devotee. Just impersonalists who are liberated. Straight up front impersonalists who are liberated.

Sukadeva and? And the four kamaras. And? That’s it.

You understand?

That’s the point. Right? And we may say, this and that. But who is Sukadeva?

Radharani’s parrot. Okay, so he comes and plays that pastime. And Sanat Kumar. Who is he? He’s Cupid. Which means expansion of Prajumna.

You know, of the Chakravyuha. You know what I’m saying? So in other words, those who don’t have faith in Krishna aren’t getting bhaktas. You understand? They don’t get anywhere.

They get nothing. So for them, then they are always feeling that, you know, if you don’t follow all this perfectly, they think it’s, I’m the doer, therefore I did this ritual. Or avoided this ritual. Therefore I get liberated. But the point is, is we’re not the doer. So we get liberated by the Lord’s grace. He’s Mukunda.

So when we recognize him, then one is already liberated. So in other words, the devotee, basically who’s sincere, has firm faith, is liberated. But because of his conditioning, he thinks he’s not. So therefore he’ll still act as if he’s conditioned.

Though technically he’s liberated.

Right? So this is the point. It’s not that they just take up chanting with sincerity. They’re liberated. But because of habit, they’re still attached to all the different things.

So that’s why then it’s called, you’re working with Krishna karma. You know? Or, how do you say? Okarma. There isn’t actually karma. Now it’s because you have that mentality, that conditioned mentality. That conditioned mentality would mean certain activities. And that activity itself would give a particular result. And that’s the result you’re looking for. Right? And based on that, you become more inspired or less inspired to be involved in that activity. Right? The work’s good, you’re inspired. The work’s not good, you’re not inspired. Right? So now if you see that relationship to Krishna, that you get good result, you’re inspired. You don’t see the thing with Krishna, and you don’t get a good result, then you start to think, you know, what’s wrong here? And then maybe it’s because I’m not Krishna conscious. Does it make sense? So in other words, Krishna is arranging these results, not because of the law of karma, because they match your mentality that you’re attached to. So therefore, that’s why, you know, the things may not come according to how your astrologer said they would.

Because ultimately, if it’s connected to Krishna, there is no, that power is not there. There’s no need. The planets are simply the ones who execute what needs to be done. According to the modes of nature, these things should happen. So the planets are the ones that are the officers that do it. Right? So if there’s no need, if there’s no modes, there’s no need for them to act.

So I hope that there’s an astrologer here that they’re not going to be offended.

Sometimes we say that Krishna directly organized all that. Yeah, Krishna, because Paramatma is the one, so he arranges through Yogamaya instead of through Mahamaya. But because Yogamaya is Mahamaya, or Mahamaya is through Yogamaya, so then the, she’ll arrange like that, but it’s being arranged and corrected by Krishna’s direction.

Right? So he’s sanctioning her doing just what she normally does. But here then, where Krishna himself then, you know, sees that something happens. It’s still arranged by her.

You know what I’m saying? In other words, you’re sitting in the temple and you’re sitting there thinking, wow, we really need a car like this, and then some guy walks in and says, hey, you know, I have this car and I don’t know what to do with it. You guys want it? You know? So that means it’s Krishna’s arrangement, but it’s come through the material energy.

Right? Because she’s a servant of Krishna.

Right? So she still arranges things for you, but it’s not illusion.

Right? Because he works with the Yogamaya. But we don’t see the Yogamaya, so therefore, if we see the Yogamaya, then we don’t see it like that. We see, oh, Krishna’s arranged all this and all that. But he’s done it through the external energy, right? The guy that walked in, you know, unless he was some avatar or something like that. Then you just have to check, was he blue or not?

Does that make sense?

Okay.

In the beginning of Krishna consciousness, one may not fully discharge the injunctions of the Lord, but because one is not resentful of this principle, and works sincerely without consideration of defeat and hopelessness, he will surely be promoted to the stage of pure Krishna consciousness. Bhagavad-gita 3.32, purport. Some very important words here. He’s not resentful of the principle. In other words, the higher principle is what he is. He’s not Even if I can’t follow it, you’re not resentful. Right? So this modern mentality, and you’ll notice sometimes I go back and forth between modern and contemporary. Contemporary means it’s happening now. Modern means it’s not Vedic. So this modern mentality that, you know, well, that’s fanatic to do that level, and that’s not practical in this age, and I can’t do that, so therefore, since I can’t do it, of course, no one should do it, even if they could do it. And so, you know, that would make me feel bad, you know, so like that, I don’t want to feel bad, you know, it’s like that, so therefore, you know, it shouldn’t happen. Right? This is resentful. So this is not sincere.

But at the same time, it’s in the balance of that saying, okay, well, it doesn’t matter. So here, without consideration of defeat and hopelessness. What does that mean? So without consideration of defeat, what does that mean? You didn’t win. You didn’t win. Okay. But you can keep endeavoring.

Yeah, you keep endeavoring. So without consideration of defeat means no matter how many obstacles you keep going. And without hopelessness, what does that mean?

Yeah, because then you lose your identity. Because if I’m a servant of Krishna, of course it’s possible. Right? If the order is there, then I’ll try my best.

But if we lose… Hopelessness means I lose that identity that I am Krishna’s servant. And so I can’t do this, and this, and that. Why can’t this whole group?

You know? So even if one can do, it doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t try.

You know? If that’s the order, you try. Right? One man, 70 years old, right, gets on a boat with 40 rupees. You know? If I told you, okay, you’re leaving tomorrow to go to the West. Here’s 40 rupees. Are you going to be comfortable with that?

Right? And when you get to the other side, you don’t have anything there. You know nobody. You have no place to stay. You have no bank balance. Nothing. Comfortable now? Not so much. Okay, it’s getting less.

But Prabhupada did it. It seems impossible. But he tried.

Right? And there were definite ups and downs in the process.

Yes? When we feel hopeless, is that due to lack of faith? Yeah, basically. You could say, in other words, that faith that we as the soul can be Krishna conscious. Right? Because we’re thinking that I am the situation that’s going wrong. But I’m not the situation that’s going wrong. We’re the servant of the situation that’s going wrong.

So now it’s a matter of whether you want to serve that hopeless situation for Krishna or not.

So if it’s for Krishna, you’ll keep the endeavor. If it’s not, then we’ll give up. You know? Does that make sense? So these are subtle things. These are why these words are important. Right?

The words are important. Even though people talk about the meaningfulness of words, like that, they don’t really worry about the meaning. You know? Just their own meaning. So in other words, someone who’s not that expert at performing Krishna consciousness still may be short, but they don’t give up. They continue. So now one can say, okay, neophyte, in the beginning of Krishna consciousness. But where does that beginning end?

Nishta. Bhava. Any other opinions? Prema. So you can say it really ends at Prema. For sure. Yeah, for sure. But at the same time, Bhava is a pretty good, solid standing, because there’s no conditioned nature. But you still have to make sure you get past the same nature that got you here in the first place. Right? In other words, that you can enjoy on the spiritual platform without Krishna.

You understand? Because the soul is Ananda. That means that they have an inherent happiness. But that happiness is coming from somewhere, because they’re not independent. So their own inherent happiness of Ananda is coming from some other source. You recognize that, you continue forward towards Prema. You don’t recognize that, you go into the material world.

You understand?

So, yeah.

So then, that is, then you could say is, you could say basically in Bhavas, where you could say is, you’re not in the beginning. Now you could say you’re kind of in the middle.

But at the same time is that, you know, you can keep going back. So in the beginning, brand new person who’s not following anything, you say, okay, but they’re not, but they’re chanting and they’re enthusiastic, they take prasad, doesn’t matter. Or they just, you know, they’re more situated and all that. But still there’s nothing. So you can take that at any point, basically. As long as one’s conditioned, this will always be a problem.

Does that make sense? So the principle always applies. Though what you’re dealing with is, you know, I don’t have that full taste of the holy name. Therefore, you know, that’s your complaint, rather than, you know, I can’t get out of bed to go to Montlartic, you know, like that. Yes?

This sincere devotee, it seems that he’s sincere because of faith. So that’s, therefore, you lose faith, you lose everything. But isn’t that also because of lack of knowledge? Lack of knowledge, yes, but the point is is that knowledge, is it just any academic knowledge? Yes, but that comes from?

Surrendering to an authority. Yes, and? Yeah, but doing something. Right? So by doing service, whatever little bit you have, you use that in service, then it comes back as greater faith. Right? When that faith gets more, you take up Sadhu Sangha. Right? As you perfect the Sadhu Sangha, and the faith grows more, then it goes into Bhajana Kriya.

And then as the faith is more, in that this process is there and the material process is not going to reward anything. Therefore, then one becomes, you know, one is able to deal with the anarchists and come to the point of becoming fixed. Then you come to the Madhyama platform. Right? You know, so the faith is greater. So in that faith that only the Holy Name is the only thing of, you know, any importance, with that practice then you come to the taste. Right? So when the faith is more, that means there’s nothing of greater, it’s only that then it comes to attachment.

Right? So in other words, as you move forward, each one is also increasing.

You know? So in other words, at attachment, then the taste is greater than it tastes.

Right? The nishta is greater than when you’re at that point of nishta, being fixed. Your ability to remove is greater than that. Your sadhu-sangha is better, your faith is better. So each one goes up, you’re adding in each one, but the other one is already, you understand? So if you’re far along and you remove faith, what happens? Everything falls apart. That’s the whole thing, so you’re all the way back. So that’s where Prabhupada defines prema as mature faith.

So that’s why someone can be senior in advance, but if they lose that faith, then they’re doing things, they’re talking things that don’t make any sense. So it’s not just, so that’s why, that’s the important point that he brings out, is that faith. Otherwise, why is he mentioned? Philosophers who comment, comments on the Bhagavad-gita, have no faith in Krishna.

But an ordinary man with faith, firm faith, in the eternal injunctions of the Lord, that means that what the shastra gives, what Prabhupada gives, these things are correct. So he has firm faith in that, right? Because that’s the point. If one has firm faith in the instruction, you know, in Guru and Krishna, then all the imports of the Vedas will be revealed. So if they’re not revealed, that means that faith is not there.

Right? So devotees who are talking, oh, but all this doesn’t work, or it doesn’t apply, that means they don’t have that faith. So therefore, they won’t see it. And they’ll say, it’s not working. Of course, it won’t work for them. But others, it’s working.

Right? It’s like, you can’t go out on Hari now, and people will like that, and they go out with 200 devotees in Poland.

And you can’t say, well, it’s a backwards place anymore. You could say, you know, some years ago. You can’t now.

You know what I’m saying? So therefore, why is it working? It’s lack of faith.

That’s why they can’t make that aspect work. Something they have faith in, that they make work.

And if it’s material, then they may get some material, they go through the motions and all that, but they won’t get the result they’re looking for. Because you can’t apply material solutions in a spiritual movement. They work outside, but then go outside and do it. See if you got the karma.

Does this make sense?

In verse 33, the Lord explains that everyone acts according to his nature. It is better to be situated in one’s position and try to attain Krishna consciousness under superior training. There is no use of artificially giving up duties. On the other hand, verse 34 indicates that acting in one’s natural position does not mean submitting to attachments and aversions, raga and dvesha. Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport, as long as the material body is there, the necessities of the material body are allowed, but under rules and regulations. And yet, we should not rely upon the control of such allowances.

In other words, the body is there, so there are certain allowances must be made. You have to eat, you have to breathe, drink water, these are important things. You don’t do them, there’ll be a problem. But at the same time, that’s controlled by the shastra, but we shouldn’t be reliant just on the control of the shastra.

Does that make sense? Yes or no? So advancement isn’t guaranteed just because of control. It means you’re doing the control. Is the smarta advanced in devotional knowledge? But how advanced are they in cleanliness? I’ll give you an example of something that’s going on right now today, 2010, this is what, October? You know, like that. There are brahmins now who, when you go into their bathroom, right? And after using the bathroom, they wash their hands, mouth and feet. Then they come out of the bathroom and there’s a facility for washing your hands and mouth and feet again.

Because that was to get rid of the impurity. Now this is to make you clean enough to be in the house.

And some of those families, you don’t even pour the water. Someone else from the family who is clean, pours it. Because you, if you touch the loda to purify, you’ll be uncontaminated.

And that’s going on today.

Right? So we’re talking about a level, I mean, you know, I would be just happy if devotees would wash their feet after going to the toilet. Let alone worrying about, you know, coming out. Does that make sense? So, it’s going on today because all that’s fanatic. No, that’s normal in brahmin families.

It’s just normal.

You know? Like that. I’ve heard of it being not quite this, but that second level that you wash, that you don’t touch the taps in high grade vaisya families.

Right? That they won’t touch the tap to wash your hands after going to the toilet. Someone else has to turn it on for you. Right? So, of course, you have to have a family there. You know, living alone, you know, or nuclear family. This is a joint family, so there’s plenty of people. But the point is, is that the principle is there. Is that these, and these are people who are not necessarily devotees at all. And they’re following such high levels of cleanliness that is recommended in the Vedas. Right? And it’s not that they’re all smart, but also Vaisnavas are on this level also.

Does it make sense? So, the point is, is that enough?

If we go by the purports and that have been given before, what’s missing?

Krishna consciousness. Connecting it to Krishna. In other words, it means you’re going to take care of the body, there’s going to be the bodily necessities, you’re going to have to take care of them. But the regulations that keep one from going beyond, that regulate it so it can be engaged, that itself is not enough. You have to engage them.

In other words, the rules and regulations will regulate it so it can be engaged, but you have to do it. Okay? Okay.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • 02:45 There is no material solution to material problems, if there are problems, it means the material world is going on in the right way. The only solution is spiritual. (Examples of varieties of cooking, women’s needs, and diseases)
  • 10:45 You don’t have to do material things with material energy
  • 2nd chapter – discusses that there is material and spiritual, that engaged material doesn’t create problem
  • 3rd chapter – starts explaining how to engage
  • 20:30 Disastrous effects of not engaging temple devotees according to their nature
  • 25:15 temple president only needs one verse
  • 28:30 Surrendering to Kṛṣṇa is the main quality of devotee, but how it looks like will be different for each person
  • 40:00 Hierarchy doesn’t mean centralization. Discussion of problems in ISKCON structure due to not understanding Varnāśrama. Prabhupāda was trying to establish leadership.
  • 54:40 to 56:15 Funny story on engaging conditioned nature in Krishna’s service
  • 58:30, again from 62:15 Jīva is not doing anything in the material world except for desiring
  • 60:00 If you don’t understand how jīva got into material world, don’t worry about it
  • 64:00 What does it mean to fight Māyā?
  • 67:00 Devotee is aloof from material activities
  • 75:00 Why not doing activities is sometimes emphasized/glorified
  • 80:00 For impersonalists, liberation is The Thing, they consider themselves the doer. Recognizing the Lord and having firm faith in Him, one is already liberated
  • 90:00 Faith is the central point throughout bhakti process
  • Very end – rules and regulations are there to engage in devotional service, but we have to engage them

 

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