Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
Okay.
Just one point that I was trying to…
I felt relevant that that may be an angle that we have not necessarily looked at. So in the previous section on the verse 41, Vyavasāyātmika-bhūti, is that those who are not fixed are diverted by many branch fruit of desires. Such less intelligent people who are attached to the flowery words of the Vedas say there is nothing more than heavenly enjoyment. Thus they are bewildered and bereft of the resolute determination for Kṛṣṇa’s devotional service, samādhi. Such people are in the diseased condition because they deprive themselves of real happiness.
Okay.
Prabhupāda, body must be considered a diseased condition. A diseased man cannot enjoy himself properly. A man with jaundice, for instance, will taste sugar candy as bitter. But a healthy man can taste its sweetness. In either case, the sugar candy is the same, but according to our condition it tastes different. Thus we are cured of the diseased concept of bodily life. We cannot taste the sweetness of spiritual life. If we really want freedom from the disease, miseries of material existence, we must minimize our bodily demands and pleasures.
Okay. Desire for sense gratification. Then where’s the other? There’s one other.
It comes in the Purports.
Okay. In the Purports, Prabhupāda’s talking about mental speculation. Right? Speculating on this principle of sense gratification. Because generally we think of speculation as on something intellectual, like philosophy or that. But there’s also the speculation on sense gratification. I would be in connection with this, that attach the flowery words of the Vedas. Is that an element of sense gratification is there in the life, right? And so now we nurture that by…
Oh, actually, let’s say, we know that material engagement of the senses is not going to give any happiness. Right? And when we apply the sense, right, we may not have gotten what we expected. Right? So then what do we do?
Right? Means the intelligent thing is just to, you know, say, okay, then that confirms what the śāstra says.
Yes, we try to adjust. So how is that done? By speculation.
Right? You speculate that, well, if I did like this, then I would be happy. You understand? So in other words, contemplation of something that ends in Kṛṣṇa. Right? You’re taking philosophy, you’re taking something that the Vedas are saying, and you’re looking at it from different angles to understand Kṛṣṇa. What is that called? Bhūji-yoga. Bhūji-yoga. There’s a specific term? Mānana. Mānana. Mānana. Mānana. Okay. And then what would be… So that would be, yes, that whole process, but that’s also practicing, but just where you’re discussing it. Kṛṣṇa-kathā. Kṛṣṇa-kathā. Vīcāra. Vīcāra. Right? Vīcāra means looking at it from different angles.
Right? Now, if Kṛṣṇa’s not connected, the same process, what do we call it? Speculation. Speculation.
You understand? So in other words, this point of being attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, we’ll say, well, we’ll look at this, yeah, those low-class karmīs.
But actually, if you look at it, it’s not good. And if it’s low-class, yes, we’ll agree. But how much more low-class is mental speculation on the sense gratification that’s not based on the Vedas?
Do you understand?
Like that. So the principle is that the Vedas are saying that, you know, you perform your duties, you know, in the varṇāśrama system, you’ll be, you know, materially everything will go nice, you’ll be satisfied, all these different things. So they’re correct on one level. It means within the material sphere, technically there is no happiness. But what people here call happiness, you can get it by following this Vedic system.
Does this make sense?
Right? So now, but for us, how important is that?
Not important. So for us, it’s dāyana-varṇāśrama, it’s important. It means the varṇāśrama system is always connected to Kṛṣṇa.
Right? So how much detail is there in the Vedic system, all that is connected to the Lord. So in other words, it’s how to be engaged in His service.
Right? But if you’re looking at varṇāśrama from the point of it’s materially going to make me happy and satisfied, that is the flowery words of the Vedas. Right? Not as flowery as, you know, you perform a big āśrama, maybe yajña, and then you go to the head of the plant, you know, that’s even more flowery. But what’s, but the point is, is that by performance of an activity in the material world that’s going to create your material happiness or satisfaction or well-being, is it actually a reality?
Can the soul be happy in the material world?
Right? What is the only condition that the soul can be satisfied in the material world?
In devotional service. You understand this subtle point? So how much of what we do, we think we’re going to get a material benefit for. That’s the attachment, so that’s what’s meant here. Thus they are bewildered and bereft of the resolute determination for Kṛṣṇa’s devotional service. So it’s not saying here samādhi. So it’s not so samādhi is a very advanced stage. So that means this could be referring to neophyte devotees. We’ll generally take it whenever there’s something like this, you know, dirty, stinky, smelly karmīs. Right? But who is Arjuna?
He’s a devotee. What’s he bewildered by? Family attachment. Based on what? And that is, but he’s just made it up himself. He’s taking it from authority, from the Vedas. So he’s pious.
But he’s still thinking that if I deal with the family members properly, I don’t have this battle, we’ll be happy forever. Will he be happy forever? No. Bhīma is how old? Bhīṣma is how old? How much longer is he going to live? Right? You know, all of them, everybody there is going to die. So ultimately there’s nothing in the material platform that can make you happy. All there is, is just Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That’s all. But as an individual, right, the soul is a person. And persons have ways of interacting with other persons. Make sense? Therefore you have to have a culture to do that. So the Vedic system is the reflection of that culture in the spiritual world that’s a hundred percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa service. Right? It’s the natural culture for those engaged in Kṛṣṇa service. But it comes here as a reflection. Right? So you can be materialist and not follow the reflection and be an animal. Or you can be a human being and follow that. But even if you’re human, is that enough to make the soul happy? You understand? No. So it has to be that even that’s connected to Kṛṣṇa. Right? So when it doesn’t work, Right?
And then we speculate on, well, other ways to make it work that will make me happy.
That’s the speculation on sense gratification that’s being talked about in the Purports.
You understand? So we understand the depth that we’re working at here. You know? In other words, the very, you know, basis of our existence.
You know, that’s the problem with Arjuna. I mean with, yeah, Arjuna, he’s trying different ways to figure out how he’ll adjust the situation, though based on religious principles in some way or a śāstra in some way.
But he’s using it not for the purpose that the śāstra gives it, to elevate yourself, but to just get done what he wants to get done. Right?
So technically he’s using the śāstra’s dharma for his own purpose, nitya. And ultimately it comes down to some things to sense gratification, so therefore it’s just art, I mean, you know, how you say, karma. Right? He’s not thinking of using it for actually what the purpose is for. He’s misapplying. He’s dropping them.
Right? So that’s the problem, is that’s why it says manoratā, that like this, like on the mind of the chariot, they can just go anywhere and use anything anyway.
You know, in the beginning, the first chapter, Duryodhana is speaking very nicely, śāstra, following all etiquettes, but he’s only using it for artha. Yes? Questioner 2 Is Arjuna, in this confusion, expressing all the main archetypes of illusion, one after the other? Would he be explaining all the aspects of illusion? I would expect so, because otherwise how is it that by the Gita it answers all questions? It’s the foundation, all spiritual life, everything to do with spiritual life is here in this book. You understand these principles, then going into any other book won’t be a problem. And since we mentioned other books, we just bring up something now, because some are going, and just because I wanted to. Devotees are interested, then they can move on this. Is this course that we’re following now, it’s the Bhakti-śāstra course, right? The books Prabhupāda defines, so our courses are based on the books that Prabhupāda defines.
And in defining this, it was much more, on one sense, since so many books weren’t there, then there may be a change in where he applies what book in the four courses, he means the four, Bhakti-śāstra, Bhakti -Vedānta, Bhakti-Vedānta, Bhakti-Sarvabhauma. And so as books are published, especially Caitanya -caritāmṛta and that, then he started making adjustments, otherwise he only had up to Bhakti-Vedānta. But once Caitanya-caritāmṛta was written, then started Bhakti-Sarvabhauma. And many times smaller books, Brahma-saṁhitā, other books were included.
And he also mentions, you know, someone who, how you say, he was expecting the disciples by 75 to be Bhakti-Vedāntas and initiate, right? And then another purport, I think it’s first canto, I mean the first chapter of, or is it the second chapter of Bhāgavatam? He’s mentioning that someone should know the six systems of philosophy to sit on the Vyāsasaṁ, right? And who sits on the Vyāsasaṁ? Right? The spiritual master, right? So now you’re connecting Bhakti-Vedānta, means second, you know, the full Bhāgavatam, and Vedānta-sūtra, which explains the six systems.
You understand? So through these methods, then you can see by what Prabhupāda says directly on the subject, or what he says related to the subject, what things are connected.
So, then, when he made the, like, basically what was, you know, finalized is what we’d say, you know, the Gita, first part of Nectar of Devotion, Īśopaniṣad upadeśa-mṛta-bhakti-śāstra, first six cantos, then that plus first six cantos of Bhāgavatam, that’s Bhakti-Vaibhāva, that plus last six, then that’s Bhakti-Vedānta, and Caitanya -caritāmṛta as the Bhakti-sarvabhauma. So we’ve added other literatures that connect with this, that are different places where Prabhupāda talks about them, right? So, and it connects with Māyāpura specifically, he was mentioning about the school here, issuing degrees of divinity, right? Does that make sense? So, therefore, because it’s the Bhakti-śāstra, that’s the main part, that’s the structure of it, but there’s all these supplementary literatures and studies, then we’re giving these divinity degrees rather than Bhakti-śāstra. You finish this, you end with the divinity degree, right? It’ll be mentioned about the books in the Bhakti-śāstra, but it’s, does that make sense? Okay, so in this, so this main study that we’re going through now, this workbook, then this will give you the diploma of divinity, okay? Now, Pāṇḍava Bhāṇḍava, in doing this work, then he was, you know, because he sees Puli from Bhagavatam and everywhere, in doing that he saw a lot of purports where Prabhupāda’s talking about the Gītā, and taking what’s in the Gītā, and then giving some further understanding, in other words, vīcāra, right? So he’s taken all that and compiled that together into a work. So all 18, any purport that’s discussing a point in Gītā, right, something added, you know, that we could get more, more, I mean, you always get more benefit, but it’s specifically, it’s not just repeating that, but it’s bringing out something more, then that has been put into this work, right? So the idea was, is that this work would be, basically, it could be studied either after this, you do this, and then after, during the summer, then deal with this, you know, study that, and, you know, before next September, then you can get extra credit for that, or it could be done simultaneously, which, if, depends, if you have the time, the inclination would possibly be easier, because you’re reading the one, you’re reading the other, there’ll be more meaning. So what we’re offering is that from this Monday, coming Monday, if anybody would like, then they can get this material from Pāṇḍava-bāṇḍava, means what would be on the purports on the chapter, and whatever is the extra question, so you have an extra essay to write. And for this, it would give it, you know, basically be an honor. So instead of being a diploma of divinity, it would be an advanced diploma of divinity. And so there’d be much more understanding. It would also, if you do, it’s nice, it’ll make it easier to understand next year’s course. But even if you don’t do, don’t worry, it will work fine. But for those who like to do like this, do that deeper study, then you speak to Pāṇḍava-bāṇḍava, and means like after the class, maybe speak so he knows what to arrange, like that. Okay, so that means that the questions that you have already, those would go on, and there’d be an extra course work. Good?
Yes. If we properly engage our human nature, and in our activity we connect it to Kṛṣṇa, is it possible to get as much satisfaction by that as by direct devotional service?
Will it be as much as direct devotional service, but the indirect? No, that’s why indirect is never quite the same. Means if it’s fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa, then there’s no difference, because then it’s direct on that platform of jñāna. That’s why we’ll see later that jñāna yoga is introduced. But we see jñāna yoga, what it’s describing is not the first six stages, right? That’ll come up. You have the yoga, rudha-yoga, rūpa-yoga. So the first six are considered part of karma yoga. So we have our own method of karma yoga, our own sadhana, right? Then the last two, these are always connected with samādhi, right? The actual jñāna and samādhi. So that aspect, that is also direct. But before that, it’s not direct, it’s indirect. So in any case, indirect will never give the same flavor as direct. You know what I’m saying? So that’s the aspect. But the point is that since we’re going to be involved in indirect, that indirect should be connected to Kṛṣṇa. Then we become purified of it. Otherwise it distracts us. Then we don’t get that resolute determination. So we don’t come to the platform of samādhi. Yes? When someone takes formal sannyāsa, does it mean that now the indirect is given up? The indirect is given up. We could say the indirect is a lot less. Because you still have to brush your teeth and stuff like that.
Because brushing your teeth, you’re doing it for Kṛṣṇa, but it’s not exactly direct. It’s not like you’re putting flowers on Kṛṣṇa’s head or something. Decorating, offering an arhatik or chanting His holy name. Those are direct. So indirect means those things that are not. So everybody’s engaged in direct. That’s why the Cakrasloki, when it mentions that in all times, all places, all circumstances, you should see Kṛṣṇa up to this, meaning directly and indirectly. In other words, from Brahman all the way up to Bhagavān.
So directly and indirect. It’s a matter of how much. So you see that brahmacārī-vānaprastha-sannyāsa, the volume of direct is greater. It means that in āśrama there’s only sādhana. You don’t have the family aspect. Well, gṛhastha means the family aspect is added to āśrama. So that’s where your indirect is. Does that make sense? So there’s more of it. But the reason one goes into it is because there’s a need for it. And so one’s going to do those things anyway. So now one should do them connected to Kṛṣṇa. So that way then you make advancement dealing with your indirect needs. In other words, we see Him as direct.
Physical, emotional, our ego, our social, all this is direct. But connecting to Kṛṣṇa is indirect because it has another purpose and then we connect it back to Kṛṣṇa. Does that make sense? Right? So ultimately then it comes to the point where it’s just you’re absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. Then at that point you can say there’s not really much difference. But there’s going to be a difference in taste. Right? Otherwise, why is there a difference in vipalambha and sambhava? Right? You know what I’m saying? So there’s going to be a taste difference.
But there’s not going to be any difference in effect. Like that. But until one gets to that platform, that basically means when you’re liberated. But until liberation there will be a difference. You know, slight. But that’s the idea is if one is always engaged like that and understands that you can see the difference. And so you can see that Kṛṣṇa is the source. And even I’m doing the indirect, the difference between indirect and it’s connected to Kṛṣṇa and then it’s not connected to Kṛṣṇa, you can see the difference. So you’re able to compare all three. Right? And you’re also able to compare. You’re able to compare not following Vedic principles, following Vedic principles. Then following Vedic principles, not connected to Kṛṣṇa and connected to Kṛṣṇa. Right? And then what is direct devotional service? And then within that we can see, okay, is it pure devotional service or is it mixed with something? So like this. That’s why buddhi-yoga, we have the intelligence to see the difference. Then we can start to be convinced, okay, this is what we should do. Instead of, oh, well, you know, oh, but in the śāstra it says we can do this and that and, you know. This will come up in your nectar devotion study, right? When you’re dealing with anarthas. Like an anartha nivṛtti, there’s five, six, six stages. So the third stage is where, so śāstra says, you know, you could get married and, you know, engage one’s all activities in the Lord’s service. But at the same time is then renunciation, you know, frees one from all, you know, worldly activities and one is able to direct one’s more energy and that towards the Supreme Lord. But, you know, at the same time, you know, you know what I’m saying? So this is where one is confused because one can’t see the difference between the direct and indirect.
You know, so one’s trying to compare them. Or within indirect, there’s something that’s more direct and something less direct. You’re making these kind of things. You know, because of attachment.
The taste for the direct, you could say, one, the connection to Kṛṣṇa, that will increase. But what we’ll do is it will get rid of the distraction because that’s the point. Resolute determination is not there. Why not? Because you’re thinking of something else. Resolute determination means there’s one thing. Right? A.K. have guru-nandana. So that’s the Bhagavad-gītā. It’s one-pointed. Right? And in Pancaratra, it’s called ekayana. It means one-pointed. It’s just the Lord, the deity. So in Bhagavata and Pancaratra, it’s ekayana. Like you hear of an ekayana-bhakta. That means someone who’s on the liberated platform. They have no other interest. So it’s either through Pancaratra rules and regulations or not through Bhagavata. But they’re focused just on the Lord. Does that make sense? So on these lower levels of the neophyte and the madhyama, there may be other distractions. The neophyte means the distractions are very prominent. Madhyama means they’re minimal. They still exist, but they don’t get in the way so much. You still have to be careful. That’s why the intelligent analytical paths are given, so you can root it out. But the point is you’re absorbed more in Kṛṣṇa. So the focus is greater.
Does that make sense? So in other words, we should see that the devotional principles that we’re following are followed because of the benefits of pleasing Kṛṣṇa, as opposed to simply the mundane, that I will get benefit from this. I go to the temple program, people respect me and stuff like this. He doesn’t go to the temple program. There’s an opportunity to do something that will put them in a bad light. It comes up in a community meeting or this or that. Because what’s the motive? I’m better. Why?
Why am I better? No, but how am I proving my controlling? I follow all the programs.
You understand where the weakness comes is that people don’t take the pro-Vedic seriously.
You understand? Because it’s as non-devotional as those who reject it. It’s all niyamagraha.
But it’s a pious niyamagraha as opposed to an impious niyamagraha. That’s the difference. But they want credit for what they’ve done.
And the reason it’s wrong is it’s against us, it’s against the rules, it’s against dharma. Not that it doesn’t please Kṛṣṇa. The word just doesn’t come out of their mouth.
You understand? So… That’s why the last snare for devotees is name, fame, and adoration. Yes, like that. Of course, that will go and it’ll be on a higher platform. But that name, fame, and adoration is I am advanced and I am the guru of devotees. Those are the final two subtle forms of controller and enjoyer. Controller, I am advanced. Right? Is it? Yes. And enjoyer is I am guru of devotees. Because if you’re guru of devotees, that means then you’ll have association, you’ll have interaction.
You don’t have to put so much emphasis on that because that falls back into the morality thing. Because what’s wrong with service? Service is what people do. You understand? It puts too much emphasis that there’s a problem with service. You understand?
Your attachment to being served. Yes, one’s attachment to being served, but the comment is made because it’s that. Because otherwise, you know, it’s natural everyone will serve. But mostly what happens when people talk about, you know, advanced devotees and people serving them and this is bad. What’s the resolution that comes out of their stupid meeting? Nobody should serve. No one should serve. No one should keep the picture of the guru where anyone can see. No one this and that. No one should talk about anything like this. What does it come out? Completely atheistic, non-devotional resolution. Why? Because they think service is the problem. It’s not. It’s the attitude of the service that’s the problem. Service is the glory.
You know what I’m saying? So what we’re talking about here that Krishna’s pointing out, you know, in a generic sense, is the basis of our mundane mentality. And the inability to see the spiritual.
You know, and as soon as we think the spiritual is the ritual. No, the ritual is the medium for the spiritual. Just as the ritual is the medium for the material. Right? The karmakandi does an artic for his deity and the devotee does an arctic for the deity. So is the arctic the problem? No. It’s the mentality. You know. One is worshipping any deity that will give him the results he wants. The other is focused on Krishna. Right? And then within that focus on Krishna, then there’s higher and lower.
Right? Even within the karmis, there’s higher and lower. Someone who’s more detached is better. He’s detached. He’s performing in a nice karma in that at the moment he’s not worried about what he’s going to get. He’s worried about focusing on the pre-satisfied. Is everything going nicely? Is there proper arrangements? You know, feeding the brahmanas, taking care, not trying to make himself the center of attention. So you consider it. He’s a good yajama. Right? But still, the ultimate point is he wants to go to heaven and planets.
So in the same way, the devotee, now he’s added Krishna. But now there’s still the element is how much of his karma and jnana is still there. Right? So Gita’s showing us where all the places karma and jnana hide. Not for the purpose to just study them separately. And this is a problem. So we place, you know, the morality and those elements of artha with moksha.
Right? There may be a higher platform, just like we said, the pious person who follows the Vedic is better than the person who doesn’t. But still, until Krishna touches it, then it doesn’t have any meaning.
Does it make sense? So you have to be very, very careful. Like that. Otherwise, that’s why it appears. Like here. One could deduce from this is, oh, we’re, you know, against pro-Vedic. But if you look around in this school, what do you see?
Vedic. Right? So it’s not that. It’s the mentality that makes it non-devotional.
Right? So that’s a problem. It’s only talking about those who are not following the Vedic culture. But he’ll also talk about those who are following the Vedic culture. But he’s the one that recommends following it. So he’s talking about the mentality. When the mentality is wrong, it’s a problem.
Yes? So would that be the difference?
No. It would be the difference between the first four levels of consciousness and the last, anandamaya. Because anandamaya means that it’s devotional. If there’s a mix of these others, then it won’t be pure devotional service. But now what we were discussing before is if it’s progressive, it may be mixed. But you’re connecting that mix to Krishna and purifying it. So then that’s sincere. One will advance. That’s progressive. That’s the Buddha yoga. Right? But if it’s not, one’s distracted by that and emphasizes that. And that becomes your platform of existence. Then it’s a problem. Because our platform is just to serve. That’s all there is. That’s all that’s important. Anything else is not actually important. But since we have to serve, we have to serve through some medium. Therefore, then we use the Vedic culture and whatever facilities are available. We apply it in devotional service. We apply it through the culture. And the culture is applied on the situation.
Does that make sense? So at the end of the day, it may look traditional. It may not look traditional. But it will carry the right flavor.
Because the philosophy, the devotion, the culture is correct. Now the form of it, if it’s ideal, great. If it’s not ideal, it doesn’t matter.
Does that make sense? When we are analyzing our desires, how can we differentiate between if they’re needs or if they’re a want?
Need is if you don’t get it, you’ll still live. I mean, want is like that. Need is you don’t get it, there’s serious problems.
In other words, a need is a distraction.
A want comes up and goes away.
But if you think about a want long enough, it becomes a need.
That’s the thing. So if you ignore a need long enough, does it become a want? No, it just stops being part of your field.
But the point is, fulfilling it is whether it’s done according to what’s appropriate for the situation, for you in the situation. Because it’s not a problem in fulfilling needs, as long as it’s done in connection to Krishna.
In other words, we have to be able to accommodate a range. As long as it’s this or that, we’ll always have a problem with the philosophy. The finer points.
So the point is, is that there is the standard of what we’re trying to get to, then there’s the position we’re at. Just like, let’s say we want to go to Calcutta. Are we in Calcutta now? Okay. So now you make a plan how to get there. So as long as it’s progressive, then if we go, okay, well, he’s in Krishnagar, so he’s not in Calcutta, so he’s a nonsense.
No. But if he gets off the bus in Krishnagar and says, well, hey, I’m on the priority, what’s the big deal? Then you’ll say he’s a nonsense.
You know what I’m saying? So simultaneously, the process being followed is equated with the goal, because activities give results. At the same time, it’s not over until it’s over.
You understand?
When you’ve come to prema, then you can relax. Those on prema don’t relax. They’re always busy serving Krishna because of their affection.
Does that make sense?
So in other words, any condition that anyone’s in, they can start at that point and move forward in Krishna consciousness, no matter what it is. That’s why there’s the examples of Magrari, the hunter, and others.
Anybody here is like, for fun, they go out and snare small animals in such a way it half kills them.
Anyone here?
No? Okay. So that means you don’t have anyone like that, so we don’t have to worry that the process won’t work on us. That’s the point of these examples.
Because otherwise someone will say, oh no, he’s done this, he can never take up devotion, he can never, he’s busy. This is not Vaishnava philosophy. They can find maybe some other world religion will accommodate it, but Vaishnavism doesn’t look like that, because the soul is eternal. Iron can always be put back in fire. Once it’s taken out, it can never be put back in. It means that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Blacksmiths do it all the time. Put it in, take it out, put it in, take it out.
Does that make sense? But the change happens when it’s in. Does the iron sitting there, can you change it? No, but they put it in the fire, then they can change it. So the dynamic development happens in the fire, and people want to make direction that takes people out of the fire, and then say you have to improve yourself. That means they have no idea about Krishna Consciousness. They actually have faith that the material world itself is a good place and is based on good principles, and by following activities in the material world, you will actually be elevated. This is their illusion.
But all we’re saying is that people may do this on a bigger level only because they have the same mentality that we, not being so big, do on a smaller level. You know what I’m saying? So it’s not that, oh, this one does that wrong, but I’m okay. No, we do it on a small level. You know what I’m saying? The man has a pawn shop, right? He makes a mistake in his business, he loses money. The billionaire makes a mistake in his business, he loses money. So you could say, well, his is worse, he lost more. No, in comparison to what he’s having, it’s the same nature.
So powerful people, for small people, it’s a bigger mistake, but in their world, as much as they make the mistake, they can correct it. We’re being small, we can’t correct it, so therefore it’s big for us. You understand? So examples are given for applying in our life.
Does that make sense?
Yes? Okay. Okay, so then, moving forward.
The sthita prajna is able to control his senses according to his plan. It’s secret that he has acquired a higher spiritual taste, which keeps him free from material enjoyment. In other words, he’s replaced a higher activity with a lower one. He gets a taste for it. The mind is always willing to accept something that will give more taste. That’s not the problem for the mind. It’s just convincing the mind that it is higher. So when the mind’s higher, then it will, like this, the sthita prajna, it’ll stick to a plan because it knows there is a higher result. Because ultimately the mind has to choose. The intelligence doesn’t choose. If it’s according to proper logical intelligence what you choose, then you’ll say that was an intelligent decision. But still it’s the mind that makes the decision. So then he’s taken this. So that’s his secret.
So why can’t you do? Because we’re contemplating the lower activity and it’s wrong rather than the higher activity and what’s right about it. So we’re not inspired. In other words, you’ll get a result of something by performing the activity. You’ll perform the activity by being inspired. You’re inspired by knowing the field. So in other words, if you go to do an activity and then you keep doing the same thing wrong, and you say, why can’t I do this? Why can’t I control the mind, this, that, blah? When’s this going to happen and all that? Then that’s the wrong focus. The focus is on what is it you want to get done? What’s better about it? Than, oh, I’ve done wrong. No, what is better about it? What’s the position? Why is it better? What would the process of doing it better look like? It’s not that I didn’t do something wrong. What’s the positive? What should I be doing? And when that’s there, then you get inspired. When you’re inspired because Kṛṣṇa reciprocates according to what? Our desire.
Right? Because desire is what is the point before the activity.
Yes, and what we contemplate is what we will desire and what we’ll need. So you want to change something, contemplate what it is you want to get to, and connect it to Kṛṣṇa. Not contemplate, oh, I’m such a sinful wretch, I’m so mad, I’m so fallen, I’m so disgusting. Yeah, then you keep that, and then you use the mental speculation to find newer and newer ways how you’re the lowest and most disgusting. You know? You know what I’m saying?
Does that make sense?
Because material enjoyment doesn’t mean the senses aren’t engaged. He’s able to control his senses according to his plan. His plan is to engage him in Kṛṣṇa’s service. So material enjoyment is when the senses aren’t connected to Kṛṣṇa. Right? The soul is ananda, means happiness, enjoyment. But that’s enjoyment on the spiritual platform. Right? Spiritual happiness is the natural state. But spiritual happiness in connection with the Supreme Person, that’s the more natural state. And the difference between the two is like, you know, the fractured portion of a drop compared to an unlimited ocean.
Right? So therefore, we’re trying to go from the material through to the devotional.
You know what I mean? So one is happy, it says, and one is satisfied. Satisfaction means what? Which is greater, happiness or satisfaction? Happiness. Satisfaction. Is that why? Because happiness is one moment. Yes. What do you mean?
That’s… Yeah. We were discussing the term material enjoyment. It means, in other words, we were talking before about the levels of material spiritualness in relationship to giving a comparison.
You understand? Satisfaction means… That’s a long… That’s a continual thing. Happiness is the moment that the pain is removed. Need means you have a pain.
Right? And so, removing that pain, that moment the pain’s removed, you call that happiness. Right? You’re hungry. It’s a pain. It’s a need. You have to eat. And then when you eat, you remove the pain. Then you say, I’m happy.
Right? All material happiness, you know, is like that. It’s removal of pain. That’s what Prabhupada says. It’s not positive. Positive means it’s actually a connection to Krsna. Because He’s real, you’re real, eternal. That interaction, that gives real happiness.
So actual happiness means pain. It doesn’t mean anything less. It means you don’t… Something mundane doesn’t give. So here material enjoyment means it’s not connected to the Lord. So His plan means His senses are connected to the Lord. Right? Does that make sense? So that’s why the sthita-prajna, He can either function… If there’s no need to engage the senses in a variety of way, He can work in a very detached form. Right? So if there’s no need, then that’s where you see, you know, the Goswamis living under a tree and this and that. There’s no need to engage the senses beyond that. So that’s all that’s engaged. Or we see someone like Ambrish Maharaj. He’s a grhastha. He’s a ksatriya. He’s the emperor of the world. You’re not going to get more engagement of the senses on any higher platform, at least in this level, than that. And he’s a mahajana. Right? He’s sthita-prajna. Because he only engages the senses according to his plan to serve Krsna. Right? Does it make sense? So this is the point, is any of these. Now you choose according to what works for you. Right? Yes.
Yes, but what does that mean? If it says we have our plan and Krsna has His plan. Yeah, but what does that mean?
It means what goes the other way means either it wasn’t connected to Krsna or because you’re connecting it nicely to Krsna, Krsna uses you as the medium to get His plan done.
Right? In other words, you have your plan and you end up not being the one doing it then because Krsna had His plan, then there’s something more wrong with your plan or your mentality in the plan. But if you start off with your plan and it ends up as something totally different, then you can see it was Krsna’s arrangement, then that means that sincerity is there and you are used as the medium to get it done. Or Krsna had something else for you to do. So you always have to see that’s the point is daiva means it’s up to the Lord. You know what I’m saying? We can control, means we have control on observing the environment. How much we observe? It’s nothing but observing the environment, being inspired, making an endeavor. Right? Because all those three you’re using intelligence.
Right? Does that make sense? But attachment is based, what’s it based on? Priority. Is it based on intelligence? That’s based on the mind. Right? So we don’t have control over that. Control means intelligence.
Right? You see the things and you find different ways to go. Attachments and experience.
You understand?
That’s why people deal with their attachment and they think it’s fine. Others are complaining because of the lack of intelligence. And they’ll say you don’t understand. What does that mean? You don’t understand the experience that’s gained.
You know what I’m saying? People make mistakes when they deal with their attachment without intelligence.
Does that make sense? And because it was an experience we thought it’s alright. But the point is that’s beyond what we can control.
Right? So the prayojana is controlled by the Lord. Because He is everything. He is the process. He is what’s going on. So He gives the result according to your, how do you say, not need, not requirement, ability, what you deserve.
Right? So He gives according to what you deserve.
Does it make sense? So focus means you understand sambandha in all its aspects. Sambandha with the field. Sambandha is in the way of the activity.
Sambandha in relation to what results you can get. Right? What we opened in the introduction. That establishes all those different aspects. Right? And then we’re inspired. So that we would call focus.
Right? That commitment is there. Inspired means we’re committed to do. Right? Then you perform. So focus. Then endeavor, which is the actual abhidheya. Right? So those things. We’re inspired. You know, we’re focused. We’re enthused. We perform the activity. That’s the end of our control. Then the result that comes, that’s daiva. That’s up to the Lord.
Does that make sense?
Yes, we’re losing focus. We think we’ll control the result. No, we know the activity that gets the result. You understand? But the activity is getting the result. It’s not us getting the result. We can perform the activity. We can’t get the result. It’s just like that. You put the stuff in the blender. And you push the button. Do you get the result?
Do you make the result? No, the blender makes the result. In other words, the activity itself produces the result.
But result is based on activity. But we’re an instrument in it. Right? We’ll say, oh, I blended it. No, you didn’t. The blender blended it. But you were an instrument to the blender, so it got blended. The daiva doesn’t matter which way you look at it and try. The daiva is always an instrument.
But the daiva thinks, I am the controller. He’s going back home, back to Warsaw.
Whenever I think of Warsaw, I always think of this building, Stalin, built for Warsaw as a gift. There’s the exact same thing in Moscow. Of course, bigger.
I even think there’s one somewhere else, maybe in Latvia.
So does this make sense? So the daiva is always an instrument. That’s why if he understands that, then he can take part very nicely. Then he’s really intelligent.
Right? Because he doesn’t have the attachment for himself, so he’s not clouded. But he wants to see. His goal is to please someone else. So that means his intelligence is being used through the whole thing. Right? Does that make sense? Like when, when, when.
Yeah.
Just to clarify, if you want to do something that’s theoretically for Krishna in your mind, then somehow you start losing focus. Right. Because that’s not happening. Right. So could that come from the attachment to the result? Yes, it could come from the attachment to the result, because as soon as you lose focus, what’s actually going on in losing focus? You make mistakes. You’re not inspired. So non-inspired means that someone is going down. You put focus on something else. Or you’re looking at, I should get that result, but where is that result?
Yeah, and where is the result in time? And what mode controls the future? Passion. Or then you’re thinking about in the past, well, it should have, well, he did like that, or time before it went in a stance. So what happens is you’re not in the present anymore. So they say lose focus means you’re not working in the present. You’re going to the future, the past. Because you’re not observing what’s going on now and working with it. You’re observing it and seeing it’s not happening. What’s not happening? Your future. Or, I did get like that, but you understand? So you’re not actually dealing in the present. So it drops out of the mode of goodness. So therefore, it doesn’t work. So that’s the thing, is that people really, how you say, advanced materialists, it’s because they don’t lose that focus.
So even though they totally want the result and totally attach to it, but they’re only working with what’s happening right now. So on that platform, they’re actually functioning mechanically according to nice karma. Because nice karma means I’m not trying to get the result. I mean, I’m not attached to the result. I’m focused on doing the work, right? But it’s proper application. I’m focused on the work because I want the result for Krishna. They’re focusing on it to get it for themselves. But they’re in no way thinking about it. They’re only seeing is what am I doing now? Is it progressing towards where the goal should be? That’s why he makes so much advancement materially.
The common person is not focused. That’s why they don’t get anything. And those people who are focused, they get something. They’ll be thinking like, oh, I had so much money, but they’re not working. They’re not working now. Because the point is, is that same guy, he didn’t have anything. It’s just like, you know, one example, you know, going back. Means now you have people and they disappear, you know, come and go. But you had this one. He was a kid. He was working at a stock market. And in those days, they didn’t have the electronic little things. It was a blackboard that somebody wrote on. Who’s going to write on it? The guy in the suit? No, a kid. Right. So he was one of the kids up there and writing the numbers. And then you erase it and write the numbers again and erase it and write the numbers again. I think they had a teletype. So it’s coming through with all the things. And they write it on the board. Right. And so he’s doing this for years. But he could have, it could have been, he went his whole life doing this. But what was the difference? You know, because your life, you write the thing. And by habit, you can write the numbers. And what are you thinking of? You know, you know, when it’s over or lunch or, you know, something in the house or the past or like that. No. But what was he thinking about? This guy. What are the numbers? And he started seeing the patterns. And then at one time, he became one of the guys in the suits. And he made more money than anybody in the suits.
Because he was observant of what’s happening right now. He understood the field. He understood what you could get from the field. How to deal with the field. All the things that Gita is talking about. But materially. So he got material results. So what we’re saying is that same endeavor, you can get all the material results you like. But you won’t get back to God. It’s temporary. So it’s a waste of time. But if you follow the same thing, but for Krishna, then you get all the benefit.
But the point is, is you’re working in the moment. It’s for Krishna. If it doesn’t work, you use your intelligence to figure out how to make it work.
But because it’s for Krishna, it’s intelligence.
But if it’s not for Krishna, then that’s mental speculation. So in other words, the devotee engages mental speculation in the Lord’s service. When it’s engaged, it’s not called mental speculation. There’s one purport where Prabhupada talks about this. Devotees engage mental speculation. Because we generally use the term, like material enjoyment. But we take all enjoyments back from our impersonalistic concept. Enjoyments of this world, that means spiritual, means no enjoyment.
No, material is the word here.
Spiritual enjoyment is not a problem. Like Prabhupada says, he enjoys spiritually. So he enjoys on the spiritual platform.
He uses the term. Then we don’t say, this is bad. Then we say, this is good. Because the impersonalists say, you know, Brahmananda, I will be happy. You know, so we’re not averse to it. Not necessarily coming from the devotional platform, because of the material condition. Because we’re not averse, therefore we become inspired. But our inspiration may be because we’ll get spiritual enjoyment, rather than the spiritual enjoyment happens because Krishna’s pleased. You know what I’m saying? That with time, then we start to see, hey, you know, I get certain happiness, but the point is, is that happiness coming from Krishna? So that means, if I really want to make myself happy, then I would make Krishna more happy, because then I become more happy. Because if he’s happy, then only am I happy. So if the more I make him happy, the more happy I’ll be. But then one comes to the point of doing that, where one gives up trying to please oneself, and just please Krishna. So the process naturally goes from our own attachments, and our own enjoyments we get from it, up to where we’re only interested in Krishna’s. So that would be free of karma.
Well, karma is also you want to enjoy, but you just don’t want to enjoy on the spiritual platform.
Karma is you want to enjoy on the material platform. Karma means I’m willing to do the work to get the material results, and then I’ll enjoy on the material platform. The jnani is I don’t want to enjoy on the material platform, so I perform no material works. And by doing that, that process, then I’ll enjoy on the spiritual platform.
So just one works and one doesn’t work, that’s all. That’s why Krishna says, you know, there’s work and non-work, and there’s non-work and work. Meaning the impersonalists, they do no work. But they’re still working, because they’re working for their own pleasure. While the devotees are doing work, but it’s not for themselves, it’s for Krishna, so that’s no work.
Does that make sense? But the language is given more poetic, and so we don’t catch it. If it was given mystical, we might catch it. But even then we don’t. Unless it’s Chinese, then we only take it seriously. Yes? You gave the example of even a successful materialist, he’s successful because he is focused on the activity. Although he wants the result, he focuses on what he’s doing. So is that the same?
We can relate that to a devotee who ultimately, he wants spiritual happiness, and because of that, he’s serving the Lord. But when he’s serving the Lord, he focuses only on serving the Lord, although his main motivation might be for that spiritual happiness. Yeah, it might be. The point is, activity is successful by focusing on it, and making the appropriate endeavor. You’re not focused, you can’t get. That’s why, you know. But the point is, so ultimately the focus is on Krishna. Is that okay? Yes? In common language, we say that I blended in the instrument, the blender was my instrument in doing that. Is this common usage just a result from this idea of I’m in control, enjoy the doer? It means, it would be, but it’s coming in the spiritual world that there is a non-difference between all these elements. In the spiritual world, you don’t make the differentiation between the Sambandha, Abhidhaya, and Prayojana, technically. Right?
Because that’s the form of Sambandha, Sandhya, and Vladimir. So we don’t make so much that distinction. Because it’s just you want to, you know, do service to Krishna. So, there’s a need to analyze here because we’re using, you could say, on one sense, the potency of the activities or the identity, but we’re misapplying, we’re not connecting to Krishna. So we have to analyze, where are we making the mistake? Because let’s say someone, he’s chanting his japa, so he could say, I’m doing everything perfectly. Let’s say, he’s not hearing, or he’s not pronouncing right, or he’s distracted by something else. So, to be able to analyze where something is wrong, so that’s why this whole analytical process is there. But ultimately, that’s why it says, you know, the gopis, they’re not great philosophers. So all they know is that Krishna’s nice, and they love him, that’s it. So it doesn’t need anything else, because once it’s come to that platform, you’ve switched from the mind being absorbed in material, you know, identity, engagement, and result, to the mind being absorbed in spiritual identity, engagement, and result. So that’s the point. So, if one’s too attached to one, one analyzes the points out, what’s his fault?
You know what I’m saying? You know, a girl goes out, finds something she likes in the market, and comes back and all that, and she’s, you know, pretty happy about it, and very excited, and, you know, she might even, if it was a little bit more out of the ordinary, be even quite, you know, chuffed about it, right, you know? Like that, until she bumps into another girl, and then she points out how that’s, you know, a knockoff of this company, and this is the real one, you know. And then what happens?
Yeah, she drops that, and then tries for the higher one.
So, that’s the point. So you analyze how it’s wrong.
You know, if you point out, it’s like, well, what’s wrong with a knockoff, you know? It’s like, you know, it looks the same and all that. It says, yes, the common people will think it’s the same. So, yeah, when you’re riding on the bus, then people will think it’s a Gucci bag. But if you’re actually walking down 5th Avenue, then they’ll know it’s not a Gucci bag. So the people who actually, you know, would use those things will know it’s not. So they’ll think you’re just a common person. You know, and then it’s kind of like, oh, okay.
Does that make sense?
So the analyzation is for that. That’s why immediately it’s taken up, and in the core is the devotional chapters.
In verse 60, Arjuna warns Arjuna that if he prematurely renounces his duties and tries to control the senses, by force he will fall down. In the next verse, Krishna reveals that the senses can be controlled only when they are engaged in devotional service. Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport, the word mat-para is most significant in this connection. How one can become mat-para is described in the life of Maharaja Ambarisa. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, a great scholar and acarya in the line of the mat-para, remarks, quote, the senses can be completely controlled only by the strength of devotional service to Krsna.
Yes, so only by connecting to Krsna can it actually be controlled. Because otherwise we see these persons who are very pious and do very nice things in the material platform, they’d still do something wrong.
Right? I mean, think of the piety one would have to be…
Yeah, to become, you know, Brihaspati, or to become the moon. Right? Yeah, but I can’t remember which one runs off with the other one’s wife.
Hmm? Moon, yeah. Right? You understand? So that’s the point, is that at some point the senses can’t, because it’s only when it’s connected to Krsna can they be fully controlled.
Right? Does that make sense?
With the words mat-para, the Lord established that one should fix his consciousness on him and not on something impersonal. Right? Because it has to be him, because the impersonal is still not enough. The impersonal shows you the workings of the world, so it breaks down your attachment to the world, because you see the spiritual element, but it doesn’t mean it creates the attachment to Krsna. That comes by focusing on Krsna Himself. Right? That’s why having explained Brahman and Paramatma, Krsna explains Bhagavan, because the other two are nice, but it’s… because actually all there is is Him as a person. It’s a material concept that there’s something separate, that this Brahman is separate and Paramatma is separate. Right? The gopis see Visnu, they see Krsna. They see Ramacandra, they see Krsna. It doesn’t matter, you know.
Does that make sense? It’s just this… they don’t see any difference. We make this distinction. Right? Which is fine, you know, as we’re conditioned, but ultimately then we see is that it’s not that. Why is Krsna Brahman or Paramatma?
According to the Gita, what is it in our dealing with Him that He manifests in that way?
Our conditioning. But how does that affect…
Yes, how we see Him. And what does Krsna say about that? How does He reciprocate?
How we see Him. So therefore, we… means Paramatma means we can accommodate, OK, here is God, He’s controlling everything, but He’s also there enjoying with all His associates. He’s just sitting there alone. We only see the alone business. It’s only Krsna. We pray to just Krsna.
You understand? But is Krsna ever alone? Like Maha-Vishnu. What does Maha-Vishnu do? Right? Sits in the causal ocean. All right? What happened when Krsna and Arjuna went to visit Him?
Yeah, castle and servants, and, you know, all kinds of things going on. So we tend to not see this aspect. So because of that, Krsna only reciprocates that way. Not saying it’s not going on. Therefore, Paramatma.
You understand? But Paramatma, you know, that’s why for the devotee then it says Krsna is sitting in his heart. You know, or Brahman. Where does Brahman come from? His effulgence. His effulgence. Like when you see somebody and look very happy, what’s striking about it? His happiness. The happiness. But what does that create? An atmosphere. An aura. Right? That’s the Brahman.
You understand? So Krsna is because He is Anandamaya.
Therefore, there’s always that effulgence. But that effulgence is the effulgence of His qualities.
So therefore, that’s why when we refer to Brahman, let’s say generically Brahman, but when we’re dealing in the process, we always refer to Parabrahman.
Yeah, well it’s just the covering of not seeing things in relationship to Krsna. It’s still Brahman, but it’s just one is not able to see it in that fashion.
Yeah. We like it like that. If we didn’t like it like that, why are we still here? It only takes one moment to go back to Godhead. That’s all it takes. How long did it take Maharaja Katmanga?
One moment. It doesn’t even say a second. There’s 11 moments in one second.
That’s the amount of time that the mind can actually catch. Less than that, it doesn’t catch.
I’m not sure. It’s a Nimisha. I’m not sure how many.
Some start with the blink of the eye. That’s a Nimisha.
You can see that. The gopis were catching that. One eleventh of a second was missing in their vision, so they’re getting very upset. You can see that. A film, then it has to be more than that. Twenty-four frames a second, then you just see it as going. But it’s a bunch of…
like that. If it’s less, then you can see them.
You know what I’m saying? Because you can catch an eleventh of a second. So that’s why the moment is used, because that is the smallest time frame of experience.
Verses 62 to 63 describe the process of downfall for a sadhaka who controls his senses, but fails to engage them in devotional service to the Lord. The result of such forced meditation is that the senses inevitably find their way back to the sense objects. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in his commentary, the verse 62, for the yogi who repeatedly contemplates sense objects, thinking he will derive pleasure from them, jayata, attachment, sangha, to those objects arises. So he will derive pleasure from them. Right?
So that’s the speculation.
Because you can’t.
The sastra is already defined. No, but we speculate. But possibly this way and that. Sastra says, you know, here he is, I’m a person, I’m God. But the impersonalist speculates. No, but maybe it means this. You know, it means the unborn in Krishna. You know, but if everything is non-dual, how can there be an inside and an out?
Okay.
Does that make sense? So attachment arises because of that. So it says it’ll find it back to the senses, right? Because of that, attachment, thirst for pleasure from those objects arises. Because the mind only thinks of them. Just because you’re contemplating them doesn’t mean the attachment has come. Right? But then from contemplating, the attachment does come. Right? And once the attachment comes, then the desire, then that thirst for them, and then again the desire comes up. Because remember we were saying, Aniruddha always goes back to Prachumna.
So you contemplate them, he develops the attachment. Then the attachment comes back as part of the field. Then you become inspired. And then you make the endeavor, then you actually try to obtain them. Does that make sense?
Just like let’s say you have a rope. Right? And something on the other end is what you’re trying to get to. Right? So you’re going to see your arm’s length as your goal. You’ll get that. But now when you pull it, then is it a goal anymore? No, now it’s back at the, it’s back with you. It’s at the identity now. Right? Then you grab again. And then it goes back. So it always moves like that. What was your goal then becomes part of the field. You’re trying to get to New York, so you have to get from here to the car. Once you’re in the car, then that becomes the situation. The car gets to Calcutta. Now you’re at the airport. That was your goal. Yeah, I get there in three hours. Once you’re there, that’s your field. Right? You understand? So it always keeps coming back to the field. So therefore, by deriving pleasure from them, then attachment arises. Then from that, thirst for pleasure comes. So it means there’s all these stages. Why are these stages given? Oh, that’s all, you know, academic. But these are the stages where you can catch it. The contemplation, best is you stop it there. Like Maha, what’s his name? Yamunacharya. Yamunacharya. Right? When his mind would contemplate sex life, what would be his response? He would spit. So that kind of like stops the whole process. Spitting is highly unromantic.
Even a cowboy wouldn’t consider it if he’s trying to be romantic. Does that make sense? Yeah? So that’s the point you can go at. But if it hasn’t, attachments come up, then you can still then analyze it there to try to break the attachment before thirst comes. Because once thirst comes, then that means now it’s, that pradyumna has come up. And so now there’s the inspiration to be involved in the activity. Right? And when you can’t get that activity, right, means you couldn’t do abhidheya to get prayojana, then what happens? Prada. Prada. Anger comes. Frustration.
Right? So it means it’s all happening in this sambandha place. Right? So as soon as it touches, means when it’s there, you can break it. As in it’s touched up, prayojana, then it makes the sambandha alive, dynamic. So now, but it’s still sambandha, you can still break it. Right? And then if it goes anger, then it means there’s the problem again in sambandha. So that means from the anger, even still, now you can still break it. But now you’re just more determined than, you know.
Could I make the biological, the thirst, there is like, neurosenses, emitting blood flow, heart sense? That, that, those things will be there, but those are in response to the mentality that’s there. So in other words, these would be on the transcendental platform where they’re connected to Krishna, these would be all of your, how do you say, sattvika babas and sanctuary babas. Right? That are happening due to, you know, in other words, the physical and emotional transformations and the experience from that, that comes from absorption in, you know, prema, absorption in Krishna.
Right? So those things come, or even not prema, but it just absorbs into Krishna.
But, that happens naturally in the spiritual body, but in the material world you have a spiritual body. So is it actually an expansion of the soul? No, it’s dead matter. So how do you get dead matter to do things?
Right? It has to be mechanics. Therefore you have, you know, all these hormones and this and that to create the experiences that would come naturally in the spiritual form in connection to Krishna. But here, because it’s not connected to Krishna, therefore it’s generated, generated mechanically.
That’s why it’s the same hormone, but depending on the situation, the mind interprets it differently. Right? The boy is, you know, walked into the dark alley and all that and he gets butterflies in his stomach. Right? You know, so something dropped into his system to create that. Or, you know, he sees the girl that he likes that butterflies in his stomach. Right? One he’ll think is fear and the other is attachment. It’s the same chemical.
You understand? It’s just how it’s interpreted.
Mind will interpret it because of the mind, therefore the mind pushes on the life airs which then create all these different things. And then the mind will interpret that. So that’s why we’re trying to catch the mind.
Right? But, you can’t catch it on its own. It has to be engaged in the Lord’s service. We think, I’ll catch it, then I’ll engage it. No. The only way is by starting from the beginning to engage it.
Right? You know, you just gotta surrender. Surrender to what?
You know? You’re surrendering to the process of engaging in Krishna’s service. So if that’s brought out, no one will complain. But after twenty years, someone is complaining. Why? Because what did the surrender mean?
It meant, it was, the surrender meant, yeah, losing some of that, but it was to the control of the person who was asking you to surrender. Right? But, if that person was being proper via media, you wouldn’t complain.
You know? Or, if your mentality was right, and understood the process, that he is only representing and therefore engaging in the Lord’s service, you would just see it as the process of devotional service. You’d have no complaint. You know, so either your fault, their fault, both fault, therefore you see. Do you understand? But, but, if it was something being done, nicely, you got a good result out of it and everything, then you don’t think, you know, you’re not complaining that, you know, the authority engaged you. Right? It’s only when it goes wrong, then you’ll say it. Right? But, it’s a lack of understanding, because the material world is the material world, so something always goes wrong. You know, so, we have faith in the material world. If he hadn’t done that, I would have been happy. No, how would you be happy unless you’re engaged in devotional service? There is no happiness outside of devotional service. just, that was an attempt to engage you in Krishna’s service. Maybe they did a good job, maybe they didn’t do a good job. That’s not the point. The point is, the only way you will be happy is in connection to Krishna. You know, packing up, moving outside the temple, how does that improve things?
You know, if you’re going to be more engaged, great. You’re going to be less engaged. You know, like Prabhupada, he was trying to work with the God Brothers and everything like that, live in the temple, but they wouldn’t, didn’t want to preach. They wouldn’t expand the preaching. They wouldn’t expand the publishing, which Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur had given the order to do. So he tried, talked with them, tried to convince them, and they felt there was other more important projects. So, by him not living in the mutt and living outside and starting his own thing, then he could write his books and publish his journals and everything as he could do.
So if it’s going to increase, then okay.
But if it’s just, you know, you don’t like this material situation, moving to that material situation, what’s the meaning? Wet stool, dry stool, it’s still mundane.
If an authority engages us or wants to engage us in some service and he has some personal motivation, if we see it as the, that he’s engaging us on behalf of the Lord, Yeah, we’ll get the full spiritual benefit. He’s the one who’ll end up with the material result.
But at the same time, one has to be intelligent to know that what’s doing is going right. You know what I’m saying? Like, I think it was New York, Pauly Merdon and he had this, some lady, supposedly a Toyota, but she was just somebody off the street. And so then, when the whole thing blew up, I don’t know what the situation was, but probably I’ve made the comment that, you know, he and that girl may have bewildered the New York devotees, but they never would have been able to do that to the Maya poor devotees.
Because they would have analyzed it more and figured it out. You know what I’m saying? So, in following also, you use your intelligence.
You know what I’m saying? So, Prabhupada’s not commenting that those devotees that were, you know, were serving under him didn’t get any spiritual benefit. No, they did fine. But what he’s saying is they wouldn’t have been tricked on this aspect.
But, you understand? But still, even though he’s tricking on that aspect, still, what he was engaging them in was bona fide devotional service.
You know what I’m saying?
The social platform.
Does that make sense? Because that was the consideration, was social, not spiritual.
You know, no one says he was a gopi coming down from the spiritual world.
So, on the social platform, he was saying he wouldn’t be able to trick the Maya for the devotees on that platform.
Of course, that was then. I don’t know about now. Okay? Okay? For an impersonalist, there are only two possibilities. He can either reject the sense objects or try to enjoy them, bhogatya. Both positions are unnatural for the living entity and cannot be maintained permanently. Because they say, oh, you know, you have to be natural. This is, you know, artificial renunciation. And then, what do they propose? Bhog. So, all they’re dealing is in bhogatya. Right? So, who does bhogatya?
Right?
It means the ego, but in this case, then the impersonalist. They try to enjoy, you know, stay away from the sense, then they enjoy, oh, that was nonsense, and then they go back to this, and they go back there. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So, they’re missing the point. They’re not engaging the senses. So, they’re trying to not control, I mean, control them and not use them, or just use them. So, devotees say, oh, we’re just being natural, you know, we’re not being fanatic, and this and that. But where’s the connection to Krishna? Because that’s the real point. All this is being said, there’s so many techniques, but the real point is the technique’s only useful is connected to Krishna. The technique on its own doesn’t have its own standing. That’s where you make the comment. Sense gratification, morality, economics, justice, even, you know, liberation, religious principles, none of them stand on their own, you know, if it’s not connected to Krishna. So, that would be that verse, whatever else.
Yeah, at least whatever you do, you do for Krishna. And that’s why it’s also saying, anybody, you know, who’s, you know, doing austerity, following their duties, they’re given charity, they do sacrifice, whatever it is, the devotee gets all that benefit.
Because, the purpose of all that is just to connect to the Lord. So he’s already connected to the Lord. So whatever you could get from all that comes automatically.
You understand Krishna’s point? Because he’s not going to change one thing, what Arjuna does. His social position is his ashram, the activity he’s going to perform, right? Nothing is going to change. His weapons, his bow, his chariot, his horses, he’s already connected to the Lord. You know? Nothing will change. So what changed? His consciousness. That’s the whole thing. We’re trying to get it to consciousness, because that’s the one thing you always have a choice. Right? What mind you have, what intelligence you have, what ego and body and senses you have, that’s fixed from your previous activities. Right? That’s your parabdha karma, it’s there, it’s not going to go away. But what can you get can you change? Your consciousness. What results are coming from your past activities? You can’t change that. What you can change is your consciousness.
That’s always available. There’s never a time it’s not. So this idea, oh, I’m forced and this and that, and where’s our free will? No, your free will is consciousness. They want free will, meaning, you know, that I can do whatever I want. Free will means when I come out, I drove in my, you know, one of those fiat, and when I walk out, I, you know, see a nice bed, you know, and get into that and drive off. That’s free will. Right? You know, that’s what they think is, you know. And no one will bother me for it. The police won’t come and get me, nothing. In fact, they might even come down and say, well, you did take the one with the, you know, the not-so-nice color, we have another one here, would you rather trade for that? Or if you want, you can have both of them, you know, like that. So that’s what we’re thinking is free will.
The devotee of the Lord, however, is not afraid to act with his senses because he knows how to engage everything in Krishna’s service. He’s not afraid. People are afraid to engage their senses because they’re either going to, you know, get distracted from something or get absorbed or they’re not going to get the result they want or, you know, some way, they’re afraid. But the devotee’s not afraid. Right? As long as that makes sense. By devote… In the purport of verse 33, Srila Prabhupada writes, by development of Krsna consciousness, one can know that everything can be attained Everything has its use in the service of the Lord. Those who are without knowledge of Krsna consciousness artificially try to avoid material objects and as a result, although they desire liberation from material bondage, they do not obtain to the perfect stage of renunciation.
Their so-called renunciation is called phalgu or less important. On the other hand, a person in Krsna consciousness knows how to use everything in the service of the Lord. Therefore, he does not become a victim of material consciousness. He does not become The impersonalist, therefore, cannot enjoy life due to his artificial renunciation and for this reason a slight agitation of the mind pulls him down again into the pool of material existence. It is said that such a soul, even though rising up to the point of liberation, falls down again due to his not having support in devotional service. So that means the devotee has no problem engaging the senses, you know, in the Lord’s service, whatever it is. Right? But, you know, then that’s where the social system comes in. Which ways of engaging the senses would be appropriate? Depending upon what is, what kind of mind intelligence and false ego he has. Right? So that’s what you’re engaging. Varnasrama’s engaging that, right? Because you’re taking your conditioned nature and engaging it in a spiritual and social system. Spiritual world, the nature you have there is based on the soul. So their form is an expansion of their nature. So they engage themselves in that culture according to that. Mother Dashoda is Krishna’s mom. Right? So she follows all the social etiquettes and everything that go with that. Right? You know, Sri Dharma is Krishna’s friend. He follows all the etiquettes that goes with that. Right? But there it’s real nature, it’s the actual nature of the soul. Right? Meaning, them as a servant and the specific detail of their eternal service. Material world, you have a conditioned nature but the soul still is eternally Krishna’s servant. So therefore, you engage that conditioned service, conditioned nature, as according to the natural position of the Jiva as Krishna’s servant. Therefore, we call Varnasrama Sanatana Dharma.
Right? So when we say Sanatana Dharma, that means we’ve died of Varnasrama.
Does that make sense? So one’s able to engage because one knows, but it’s according to what is actually the nature, what should you be doing. Right? Does that make sense? You want the facilities of marriage? Then you have to take care of it. Right? This is like, let us say, I want some potatoes.
Right? And I have some seed potato and I have some land. What do I have to do?
Yeah. Do all that work and then I’ll get potatoes. Right? So you want family life? So it’s just going to happen just because you want it? No. Just like the potatoes. You just felt like it and then they just happened. Not only that, they came out of the ground already cut and deep fried.
No?
You know farming. Is that how it works? No. Okay. So in the same way, why would family life be like that? Just because you feel like it, that’s the way it’s going to work.
Right? So if someone worked like that just by their feeling, what does that mean? Foolish, right? Right? Not intelligent.
Does that make sense? So, that would mean is you want that, willing to work for that. Do I have the nature to work for that? No, I don’t want to be involved in this and that. I can’t take up. So therefore, then that’s why there’s three other ashrams.
Right? You have family life or three other alternatives.
Right? So there’s a variety of alternatives.
Does that make sense? So that’s how you choose.
It’s not that all you pick and choose is your life. I’m a devotee, I engage in something. No. Because there has to be consistency. If you’re doing, then you have to do it. Engage the senses means actual engage. You’re not engaging, then you don’t engage. You don’t get involved.
Does that make sense? In verse 64 to 72, the Lord answers the last question of Arjuna. How does he walk? How the person divide consciousness engages his senses. Okay. So now we’ve just finished how does he speak. Right?
So how does he speak means how is he thinking? How are the senses engaged? Like that. I mean not engaged, but how is the consideration? How does he understand? Because speaking means intelligence. And intelligence is in control of the senses. So how does he intelligently deal with the senses? What is his concept? Right? So that’s how he speaks. Right? And so now we’re going to see how does he walk? How does he actually engage the senses?
The sthita prajna is free from the dualities of bhog and tyag because he acts on behalf of the Krsna. Right? So there is no bhog and tyag, but the senses are engaged. This is the problem. You know, see. Does that make sense? Like we were in Hong Kong and this reporter came and the devotees in Hong Kong you know, there’s rich businessmen there. So Prabhupada’s coming. So they arranged for him to stay in the penthouse suite in the Hilton Hotel. So you could probably say it was the best hotel and the best room in the hotel at that time in Hong Kong.
So the reporter comes in and this and that. At some point in the conversation it comes up, but you’re spiritual. Why are you in the in this, you know, penthouse suite in the best hotel? You know, because you’re spiritual. You’re supposed to be all renounced and stuff. Right. And then his point was is the spiritual master represents God. So even if this hotel was made of solid gold, it wouldn’t be good enough.
It’s kind of like, OK. And yes. And so what’s your, you know, you know, they just they don’t know what to do with this stuff. Yeah. So that’s the point is they’re all bhogantiya because it’s just engaged in Lord’s service. The devotees have created this out of service to the spiritual master and he reciprocates by using it. Right. But then the next day he’s not staying in the Hilton Hotel. He’s somewhere else.
Right. Staying in some little room and I think, you know, I’m not sure where he went from there to Tokyo or that. You know, he’s staying in a little room with paper walls, you know, out in the middle of nowhere. So, you know, that was the next thing. So the point is is it’s just the senses are engaged whatever their situation that they’re in. So that means there’s no bhog, there’s no tyag. So when people say, oh, but they’re enjoying and this and that. You know, the Vyasa Puja book, right? Oh, no, but, you know, you enjoy so much when you read that book. It’s like, what does that got to do with it? You know. It’s not the point. It’s a relationship.
You know what I’m saying? So, this mundane concepts come in, this impersonal concepts of bhogantiya.
Right. Why do we say impersonalist?
What does a karmi think about engaging the senses? It’s all bhog. You know, forget the tyag part. You know, what’s this tyag part? You know. You know, and the impersonalist, he would just say tyag, but it doesn’t work. So he ends up this bhog. You know what I’m saying? Bhog is part of that process? Or is it just… No, no, it’s not part. If they’re tantrics, yes, but if they’re not tantrics, no. The tantrics are kind of considered, you know, the bottom of the barrel kind of.
Oh.
Okay.
He is satisfying Krishna consciousness fixed on the Lord. Verses 66 to 67 describe the position of a person who is not connected with the Supreme and therefore fails to control his senses. He cannot achieve peace and happiness.
On the other hand, the devotee of the Lord are in perfect peace because they do not have desires to enjoy or renounce the world. Srila Prabhupada writes his purport to verse 70 As long as one has the material body, the demands of the body for sense gratification will continue. Sense gratification means the senses are being gratified. So our point is if the senses are being gratified in connection to Krishna, that’s not a problem.
Right? Because the term is the term. The term is… It defines the mechanics of it or the definition of it. At the same time, it also may have its…
you know, considered good or bad aspect. You know, derogatory or… What would be the opposite of derogatory?
Just… Just… Just Tory or…
Is that why the Tories think that they’re the better political choice? Well, there’s other… Us Tories, or there’s the derogatory. Huh? Complimentary? Yeah, complimentary. Yeah, so it’s just… Does that make sense? So here is then sense gratification is generally used by us to mean you know, not engaged in the Lord’s service. So it’s seen as derogatory. The senses, that’s what they do. But when it’s connected to Krishna, we don’t call it sense gratification.
Yeah. Yeah, Vipassana wouldn’t be. I mean, there’s always that, you know, if it wasn’t a devotee, he’d be walking around with all those boards, you know, now is the end of the world and repents and that kind of thing. So there’s always a guy who’s, you know, saying that, you eat too much and this is too fancy and this and that. You’re not Brahmacharya. You know, you get that. Other than that, yes, devotees generally don’t think of taking prasad as sense gratification. But you’re engaging the senses, you’re gratifying the senses. But it’s connection to Krishna, so service. And then it should be taken in the proper way, right? Yes. Because it’s an element also of Brahman to eat too much. But that’s there, but why? Why shouldn’t a Brahman eat too much? Because it will hamper his service. It’ll hamper his service. Yeah. You know, it means you’ll be asleep for three hours. So it’s like, you know, it’s a problem.
You understand? So those are there just to see that the engagement is going nicely.
Right? Why? You know, it’s one thing if you’re eating just, you like it so much and you’re eating, but sometimes you’re just eating because you’re just trying to get very full or worried that, well, when will prasad be again? You know what I’m saying? So, so these things are to regulate that. I mean, those distractions.
The devotee, however, is not disturbed by such desires because of his fullness, because of his fullness. A Krsna conscious man is not in need of anything because the Lord fulfills all his material necessities. Therefore, he is like the ocean, always full in himself. Desires may come to him like the waters of the rivers that flow into the ocean, but he is steady in the ocean. He is not even slightly disturbed by desires for sense gratification. That means, so seeing them, means something comes and it’s within your service, then you take that and engage that in Krsna’s service. So it’s not sense gratification. That’s for your own. If it’s not for you, you just let it go. Right? You know? Does that make sense? You know, so much mail is there, you only take out your ones.
Right? You know, so much food is there, you only take what you need.
You don’t take someone else’s food. If I take more than I need, you take me someone else’s food.
Right? So same way, so many opportunities to engage the senses are there, but I only take those ones that are for me.
Right? Does that make sense? So therefore, he’s not distracted, he’s not disturbed.
That is the proof of a Krsna conscious man, one who has lost all inclinations for material sense gratification. Although the desires are present. Because he remains. Now here it says, although the desires are present.
The desire means there’s a field, you see the field, means you’re intelligent, you notice, like that, and maybe at that point it’s stopped, because that’s not for you. Because the point is you engage it for Krsna. If you engage something in Krsna’s service, what’s the important element?
What changes?
Consciousness changes, but in sambandha-abhidheya-paryoja, what changes?
Sambandha, okay, identity will change, but, is the activity, is the field change? Does the activity change? What changes? The result. It’s Krsna’s result, not our result.
Of course, to do that we’ve changed our identity and all that, but we would see it there, so that, from that aspect. But as far as mechanics go, the field and the activity didn’t change. Right? So therefore, desire comes up, it’s not actually the problem.
Right? It’s only when you act on the problem then you get the result, but because you’ve acted based on the desire, who’s the result for? Yourself. Right? Now, if it’s in the purview of your area, then that desire is a desire to please Krsna, through this activity. So then the activity is performed, it gets the result, which is for Krsna’s pleasure.
You see?
So even, if the desire is there, that’s not the problem.
Like that. You know, Prabhupada, I think it was, Pancadavida, he was on the train with Prabhupada, you know, they get on, you know, it’s stopped in the station, people are walking by, and this and that, and that, and then the train starts, and it goes, and it’s starting to, and you can still see the people, and then the people start to become blurred. Right? And then, Pancadavida notices, just, you know, looking out the window, it’s just a blur, and then he catches sight of, you know, some nice looking girl. And then, you know, the guy catches it as it goes by. So he asks Prabhupada, how is it that I could see, everything’s a blur, but my senses were able to catch that there was a girl standing there. Prabhupada said, it’s just a habit. That’s all. That’s what the senses have been doing since time immemorial. So what you consider valuable, that’s what the senses catch. In other words, it’s this ocean of things, right? It’s just like those leaves over there. Anybody here is just like, you know, can’t resist, just go over there and eat them off, you know, not even to pick them, just eat them straight off the bush. Right? You know what I mean? No, but if you bring that cow over there, they might do that.
Yeah. You understand? So, therefore, so much is here, but you only, by habit, catch those things that you think are sense gratification. So, therefore, you see, and it comes up in the desires there, that’s just habit. But the point is, is it’s not for Krsna, therefore, there’s no endeavor.
That way the senses are controlled. And your senses are engaged in activities that are to please Krsna. Right? Yes? Sometimes we contemplate this habit because we see it does not work in the present situation. Yeah, we’ll see it in the process of not working in the same person that Prabhupada told him that, then, then, I’m not sure however long later it was, but ten, fifteen years later, they used that to basically topple him from his position. They said, no, but then, you know, you’d see a girl say, you’re not advanced, you’re not this and that. Fifteen years after. Yeah. Some other devotees did that, you know, to try to pull him out of his position. But, you know, Prabhupada says, that’s a habit. Who cares? Point is, it’s what you do. Did he do something with it? Did he go up and pull that little thing and stop the train and jump off and run after the girl? Then he could say, all right, he’s got a problem. But he didn’t. As soon as it happened, then he asked Prabhupada, what was that, you know?
So, so, that’s the point. He says, although desires are present, devotees don’t read so good. Right? Because they don’t know the difference between desire and attachment. Desire may be there, attachment’s not. It means attachments comes from, as Baladeva says, for the O, you repeatedly contemplate sense objects, thinking you’ll derive pleasure from them. You think you’ll derive pleasure. If you contemplate them, not thinking you’ll derive pleasure.
You know, so that jñāyatā will create attachment.
But if you contemplate them without thinking they will derive pleasure, then that breaks. Because that’s one of the things, tricks of renunciation, is, is intellectually contemplate the objects of the senses and actually what is there and what’s not there. Right? So, one can do that, one uses that. If by thinking in that way you become overly attached, don’t do that.
But you can understand is, then you should be engaged. Because if you’re engaged, right? In other words, if you’re not married, any woman can distract the mind. But if you’re married, then you can think about it all day. Why does she say that? You know, like that. You know, so you can think all day about it. Because the opportunity to engage, so then you can use your intelligence. So in other words, if without engaging the senses, you can use your intelligence analytically, then that’s better. But if by using that way one becomes attached, then better one engages the senses. Because in that thing, then you’ll think so, you know, very detached, right? You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So that’s the point. In any case, it’s analyzed. It’s tried to be understood. Therefore, then desires can be looked at. And then desire, you can see, there’s nothing here. Right? Because if there’s a goal for Krishna, then I engage in the activities. No goal for Krishna, I don’t.
The Lord’s devotees are internally renounced, but externally very active in devotional service. They don’t have selfish desires and are free from false ego. One is never bewildered after attaining such a position in spiritual life. Even at the hour of death, one who is thus situated reaches Krishna’s abode.
So we’re running out of time, so we’ll conclude tomorrow, hopefully.
And it’s kind of like, yeah, so, yeah, we only have half a page, no, three -quarters, well, between the two, one page left, so we should finish tomorrow. That was a joke.
Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, Hare Hare, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, Hare Krsna, Hare Hare,
