Bhagavad-gītā Thematic #65

Bhagavad-gītā Thematic #65

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Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, Thus he realizes his own self without false identification with matter and without affection for material possessions. So then false identification, the sambandha, and without affection for material possessions, the prayojana. So then the activity will be correct. Such a great devotee is never in trouble with others because he sees everyone from the platform of spiritual understanding. He sees himself and others in the right perspective. So he won’t be in trouble because he’s not trying to, how he can get something from others. Or there’s not going to be a common fight over material facilities and all that. Means it doesn’t mean that he’s not in trouble, it doesn’t mean that others don’t make trouble. You know, it does happen. But in general we see is that much of the time, even the materialists, they appreciate the devotees. Like it’s said that, you know, Sanatana Goswami, it doesn’t matter who it was, you know, the common person or the saintly person or anybody, everybody appreciated. So there was no, yeah, they all appreciate it because there’s nothing to gain from them materially. Because people only fight over material things. There’s no shortage of spiritual, right, it’s not like there’s a shortage on Brahman. And so, you know, we have the exclusive rights, you know, here. Rationed. Yeah. It only flows what on, what are they up there, like 7th Avenue or something like that, you know, but over on 5th it’s nice, it doesn’t really happen over there.

271. A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, and who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of false ego, he alone can attain real peace. Now, so now here we’ve taken it back at another step, right? He’s not bothered by the incessant desires. So that’s only happening because he’s given up the, what’s the goal of something, right? That the sense gratification is not for him, it’s for Krishna. He’s already given that up. So, but now he says he lives free from desires. So he could mean free from material desires, though the desires still come up, but it also would mean naturally just with practice there’ll be less desires, because if the mind knows that it doesn’t matter what it brings up, you’re going to give it the same answer, then it starts to not look as enthusiastically, right? You know, like that. So giving up all sense of proprietorship, right? So then we take it back into the ownership means your identity is sankarsana, right? So now we’ve done aniruddha-pujya-nisankarsana, devoid of all false egos, so he’s not identifying with that. You could also say proprietorship is mind, is also, is prayojana, and devoid of false ego is sambandha, right? So both from the ideas of having desires, you know, on the subtle platform, or from the element of the gross or the external, the identification of the external and the identification of enjoyment from the external. Or this is my facility externally, and I identify with that, too, I can enjoy from that. Does that make sense? Real desirelessness is the desire to satisfy Krsna. To become desireless means not to desire anything for sense gratification. In other words, desire for becoming Krsna conscious is actually desireless, desirelessness.

To understand one’s actual position as the eternal servant of Krsna, without falsely claiming this material body to be oneself, without falsely claiming proprietorship over anything in the world, is the perfect stage of Krsna consciousness.

So we understand we’re servant of Krsna, that means we’re not thinking we’re the body and we don’t have proprietorship over anything, right? Because you could also say, okay, we say about the body, but everything connected to the body, right? Because the field is what we work with, right? It means there’s the field of action, then there’s the person who’s acting, means the soul. Then he’s going to act with the senses, right? Does that make sense, you know? So then there’s the endeavor, and then there’s the sanction of the Lord. So within the sambandha aspect, then you’re going to have the field, which is your environment, the body and senses, and you, right? So if you think I’m servant of Krsna, okay, that’s one of the aspects. But do you think, understand your body is also not, means, you know, means that we’re not the body and we’re not the facilities, because I may say, okay, I’m servant, I may even accept the body as, but do I accept the facilities also? So you see yourself as servant, but for… All my stuff is mine, yes. Don’t touch this stuff, it belongs to my spiritual self.

Do you understand? So it’s just a matter of extending it, because when we say the field, we mean the body, because the body includes anything connected with it, right? So there may be an ownership over it, or there may not, but in any case, whatever the body can perceive is where we’re going to try to enjoy ourselves, right? You look, wherever you are, you will look what I can enjoy here, even if you’re sitting in the train station, the train station’s not yours, but you look around, is there somebody you could talk to, is there something you could read, is there something you could eat, you’ll look around, or is there something funny going on you could watch?

So therefore, the enjoyment is there, though proprietorship is not. But let’s say in the house, yeah, enjoyment’s not necessarily there, but proprietorship is. Yes, yes.

Well, the thing is, is, well, the leadership, how, why, why the leadership?

Okay, so for the cook, then we’re in charge of the kitchen, rather than just being assistant, but why would we want to be in charge? You know what I’m saying? If it’s just because of prestige, then that we want to cook for Krishna, that’s good, but do we want to be in charge for prestige, that’ll be the weak part, so it’s mixed. Right? So it’s desirelessness with desire, you know, that’s why it’s that, you know, there can be action and inaction, you know, even though there’s, there’s, or inaction and action. So the point is, is that the, that you’re cooking for Krishna, that’s inaction and action. It means the activity’s going on, but it’s not creating any material karma, any result. But at the same time, because of the prestige, then there’s action in the inaction. Even though you’re doing it for Krishna, so it’s inaction, you still, there’s the action of the prestige, so it’ll be, it’ll be mixed, right? But if it’s, you want to be in charge of the kitchen because you know something about kitchens and how to run it and the kitchen will be run much better for Krishna, like that, then it can be looking at it that that aspect is there, but you have to judge very carefully because then you don’t mind assisting, but you just know Krishna will get a better result if you were managing it, you know what I’m saying? And then if you are managing it, everybody will be happy because you’re running it nicely, you know, so it’s not about who’s in charge, so you just have to analyze and see. That’s why you have these, you know, all these different angles so that you can, from one angle we may be able to capture it, you know, like we’re saying here, yes, I’m not the body, you know, I’m the soul, I’m not the body, but what about our stuff?

You know what I’m saying? So that’s the thing there, but if it’s seen in connection with Krishna, then there’s a reason, that’s your quota to serve Krishna with, so why would they be taking it?

In any case, the point is that, if you’re saying they’re using it for Krishna, that’s nice, but it is already connected to Krishna, you know what I’m saying? Like when we had the fences, we had so many flowers in the garden, and then all the local devotees would come and pick them, and they would say, you know, hey, you know, you can’t come and pick the flowers, it’s just that they’re for Krishna, you know what I’m saying? It’s Krishna, everything’s Krishna’s, you know, like that, at least outside the house. Like that, and he says, no, but you’re going to take them home. He says, yeah, we’ll offer them to Krishna there. He says, well, that’s your worship, you know, it’s one thing if they were picking flowers for Arunachala, for making the garlands or something like that, no, it’s for their own home worship, and these are here for our worship. So it’s not a matter of, you know, we’re making the effort to grow them, he says, you can grow them also, you know what I’m saying? So there’s always this kind of, you know, it’s all, you know, their house is another question, you can’t just walk into their house and, you know, pick up some rice, and say, what are you doing, that’s our rice, no, it’s for Krishna.

Is it a valid argument that I’m a Kshatriya, so I have to engage my nature, so I have to take charge of this kitchen?

Your name was Bhima, maybe, but otherwise, kitchens aren’t famous for being, having Kshatriya in charge of, unless the whole country, you see, the whole country is a kitchen, a very large kitchen.

I mean, we’re the kitchen religion, so I guess you could have the kitchen country. Maybe Italy, Italy’s the kitchen country, right, so therefore the… Farm could be considered a kitchen, part of the kitchen. Yeah, but they don’t run a farm either. No. So, let’s take the temple, would it be… Can, I mean, can means any aspect you can run it from, you know what I’m saying? Because you have the devotional aspect anyone could run. The Brahmin is running it, you know, because it’s a place of, you know, how you say, devotional cultivation, so it’s knowledge, it’s practice, so he would relate to the Kshatriya because of the administrative aspect, and seeing that everything’s organized and going nicely. The Vaishya because it takes money to run all that, and management, so he could relate to that side of it. The Shudra also, again, just the devotional, though maybe not the element of knowledge or organized study or other things like that, it would just be the devotional practices.

So, depending upon what it is, anybody could run a temple, technically, but the problem is, the bigger it is, then it more gets… You have to have this breakdown.

So, we’re back to seeing more parameters and finding balance. Yeah, yeah, but it’s very natural. I’ve seen a few, very few temples, the Kshatriya kind of in charge. Most are like Vaishya, because they know, much of the time, the reason they’re there is because they can raise the money. They can manage, they can raise the money, you know, but their control of people is just pragmatic, you know, so that’s always a problem. And things that deity worship is there because you’re supposed to have it, or you have it better than others is a prestige issue. You know, we have three altars, you know, that kind of thing. That’s not so big now, but in the 80s, that was the thing. If you were temple president, you had to have three altars. Everybody else did, you know. So then, like that. Brahmins, they run temples, but a lot of the Brahmins aren’t good managers, so then something falls apart managerially. So they’ll always replace, because generally speaking, it’s money, so they’ll always replace them with a Vaishya.

Like that. It’s just kind of the pattern.

But the point is, it’s supposed to be a cooperation. You know, saying, you’re supposed to have all three aspects. So if one person can do all three, that’s better. But if he can only do one, then he needs the other elements.

You know, the point is, it’s complete with all of that. So you want to see that all those aspects are there. If one person can do it, great. If two people, okay. Three, whatever it takes to get it done. You know, just like the Sunday feast has to be cooked. So one person could cook everything. Or two people, or ten. It doesn’t matter. But as long as it gets done.

The sense of proprietorship. It’s kind of a thing that we were trained, raised. And it’s natural. Yes. And you should expand it. And make more of it. And share it with your relatives.

The thing that we are trying to do in Krishna consciousness is just the opposite. So can it come with the training, with the sadhana? Or should it come from the intelligence? Will it come on its own with the practice as we get purified? Or should we make a separate endeavor? Just on that particular point. I would say yes to everything before.

But the separate endeavor, it’s already included in Krishna consciousness. That’s the point that Prabhupada is bringing up. There is no separate endeavor.

Because the endeavor, according to nature, is for Krishna. It already includes what we would call the separate endeavor.

The principle is that there is no proprietorship. But that doesn’t mean that you don’t have a quota. So that’s the first verse of the Vishwa Upanishad. Everyone has their quota. That quota is based on their nature.

So if they are in a position, let’s say like Grihasthas. If they accumulate facility. For the household life. That is their nature. So what they do, as long as it’s within their nature. And they are actually going to use it. Then you could say it’s within their quota.

Because it’s according to their ability. They got it according to proper means. So then it would be their quota. The example is always used. This couple of Permanently Chartered Disciples. Grihasthas in comparison to the sannyasins. The sannyasins had so much wealth. And they were not attached. So practically applying it in our own life. It’s very difficult.

So when does it become easier? When you have as much gold as she had?

She had so much.

You begin with nothing. And you become attached to that. No, she had the other hand. Then you take it back and they make smaller ornaments.

The point is that we start with… It’s used in Krishna’s service.

Powerful finger there.

It just means that… It means just like this. You have proprietorship. Or you have peace.

No, that won’t work.

That’s like cake. Eat it.

You get one or the other. Eat half, keep half.

It’s just a matter of…

Appreciating that… How we think…

Is what gives us trouble.

I sometimes quote this one… Devotee’s father. What he said to him before he became a devotee. He said… What makes you happy makes you crazy.

So…

The idea is that… We’re in anxiety. That’s why we’ve taken up Krishna consciousness. But that anxiety is becoming… Because of the bodily conception. So that’s a little easier to… Because no one is going to come along… And take your body away. Generally speaking. So you have control of that. So you kind of… The soul is there. You don’t have to worry that some kind of demon… Is going to come and suck your soul out. Great in the movies. Or that they’re going to take your body away. And you wake up one morning… And you’re someone else. You find out you’re in the next door neighbor’s house. Stuff like that. It’s not going to happen. So these things are there. But then… The next step is the field. The full field. Because the body is the field. Because the body is what’s connected to the field. You know what I’m saying? It’s your body that went down… And signed the papers. Therefore it’s your house. You know what I’m saying? The soul didn’t sign the papers. The soul desired to. Therefore the body engaged. The three modes of nature engaged the body. But then as it extends… Then it gets harder.

You know what I’m saying? That’s the thing. As you extend it, it gets more and more entangling. That’s what I said before. Oh no. That was in the Bhagavatam. It was saying that the girl is very attractive. So the boy becomes attractive to the girl. That’s the first step. Then he’ll work very hard. That’s the second. He’ll accumulate house and facilities. He’ll have children. Then he’s got the house, the land. He’s working on that. The children are growing. Then they’re going to make friends and expand. And they’ll have wealth as they go along. So it’s just that in this way it gets entangled. Because it’s I and mine. It’s just like there’s attachment to the children. Right? But then there’s in its own way more attachment to the grandchildren.

You know what I’m saying? So the farther it expands, the more…

Does that make sense? So the idea is that we understand the process so we’re connecting the results. So that connects the whole process.

One who is situated in this perfect stage knows that because Krishna is the proprietor of everything, everything must be used for the satisfaction of Krishna. So the proprietorship is false because it actually belongs to someone else. So now if we have… Let us say we have… We’re staying in someone’s house while they’re away on vacation but we get attached to their house and their possessions and all that. So is that going to be a problem? Yeah. So that’s the thing is all this belongs to Krishna but we’re claiming that it’s ours. So that’s why there’s a problem.

So… But that you have a quota, that’s not a problem. You say that our process is that we love Krishna so much that we can give it up on our own instead of… Yeah, yes. But at the same time you’re not technically giving it up because it’s not ours to begin with. But identification makes things… Yes. Yes, it does. But start from that principle. Then it makes things work easier because if it’s like it could be yours but we have a philosophy that says it’s not. But the thing is it is ours even if you think it is. Even if you don’t practice this religious process it doesn’t mean that it’s any different. It still belongs to God. It’s just the way it is. It means He’s created the world so the whole world, everything belongs to Him. So it’s just a matter of we’re here and then we’ll go away because if it was ours we should be able to take it with us. You know what I’m saying?

Oh, I see.

So that’s why the infighting is so strong because the same people are coming back and claiming the same piece of land. Okay, now I get it. That’s why you have to remember. Don’t end up over there.

I had a question on that. When it says the land of milk and honey honey I understand but what does milk mean over there? Because all they had that I know was camels and sheep. So what did that mean, milk? Camel milk. Honey I understand.

I said it was New Zealand she said it was Belgium.

What they identify as the ideal land because they have a lot of honey and milk. No, but what I’m saying, what is this milk?

Oh, but you do have bulls, right? Because that’s the thing. And you also have donkeys, right? You don’t steal your neighbor’s donkey. But the discussion is about if your neighbor’s bull falls or oxen falls into your milk. So that means it must have been cows. So then it can mean cow milk. Okay.

Now that we worked that one out. Yes. But I have a point of falsely claiming proprietorship. It’s interesting that recently I was speaking with one of my colleagues when he brought up this point that parents they think they have some proprietorship over their children. And I’ve never actually seen it like that but it was interesting that he brought it up and I can see now that we have a strong attachment for our children. Unless we see them as devotees and we want the best for them always. Yes.

It works. It can work very nicely. Being a parent and being Krishna conscious and making children Krishna conscious can work very nicely together. It’s not a problem because kids take a while to grow up. They’re not like the demigods in that they’re born and then within a few hours they’re 16 years old and they say see you later and go off. Like that. So basically you have now according to the modern law 18 years before technically they’re supposed to be able to say that. So that someone is parenting them, that’s fine. But the point is that where that attachment and control because proprietorship means you have rights. When I say it’s my land means I can do with it as I want. But the point is it’s not. The child belongs to Krishna.

So therefore means what would be within the line of God approved parental activities then that you have the right because it’s your duty not because it’s your attachment.

You know what I’m saying? Because of attachment you’re given the facility to work within that field. You know what I’m saying? But your rights are what is your duty. You don’t have rights beyond your duty. You know what I’m saying? So if let’s say yeah okay so therefore there’s so many considerations that the parent may consider about the child that might be within the range of their rights you know generally is within but sometimes it’s just their own attachment and it actually has nothing to do with benefiting particularly the child or even being Krishna conscious or the other way around. It’s not Krishna conscious and it doesn’t even necessarily actually even materially benefit the child. You know let us say that the child is you know exceptional in a particular area and there’s an opportunity to go to a special school where they could develop that but the parent doesn’t want because they don’t want to be at home they don’t want to be home alone because it’s boring. If the kid’s home alone then they’ll make movies out of it but if the parents are home alone no one makes a movie. You ever heard of a movie parent sitting alone? No it’s not. So it’s boring. Does that make sense? So that is not even materially beneficial for the child so therefore he’ll have to be at home because the parent wants him at home but the kid wants to be somewhere else so the kid isn’t actually a separate entity as such the kid is an accessory you know accessory to parents maya does that mean he becomes implicated by association?

We went from the social to the legal so therefore then but it happens all the time because the idea is I’m having children because of my own attachments and need so then if the child’s not there when I want how I want then I don’t like that you know what I’m saying does that make sense? so that then creates the whole social environment does that make sense? so that may work it works to some it’s less noticeable in the non-Krishna conscious society just because there is so much distraction and disturbance anyway but it becomes more of a problem when you bring it in line with Krishna consciousness but at the same time it’s not just only that becomes a problem it means anything else that is incorrect also becomes a problem you know what I’m saying so kids not listening to parents they don’t do that in the modern society necessarily anyway parents divorcing that goes on fighting over the kids that goes on running a proxy war through the kids between the mother and father that goes on how you say fighting over the kids and facility just because it will bother the other person not that it will actually be beneficial to the kid, it goes on people running off with each other’s positions their wives their donkeys whatever it is that happens to be laying around you know bring it into the full context so does that make sense? so we won’t notice that as much it’s going on now we have our own community here and all the things that I mentioned are going on right but we won’t notice it so much because of our conditioning but a child going to gurukul that doesn’t happen in the modern society you know so unless you were one of those families traditional families where you went to boarding school and your parents went to boarding school and their parents went to boarding school and we’re those families that you know go to boarding school then only you go to boarding school does that make sense? but your common people boarding school is not an option they don’t think about it 70 % of all child abuse happens within the family or close known members of the family 70% do you understand?

so it’s always I always find it very amusing how quickly we write off everything else you know what I’m saying? we make it sound like only abuse happens outside the family that’s because a lot of what’s abuse we don’t even identify you know you had a bad day and you come home and yell at your kids technically that’s abuse because if someone who wasn’t you did it you bring it up to the authorities or you go and personally tell them but if you do it that’s fine does that make sense? it doesn’t make it any more right but because of your false sense of proprietorship you think you have the right no you have the right to correctly deal with your child and if you’re doing it why someone else needs to do it does that make sense? so if it’s a matter of you’re doing it correctly the other person is doing it the child won’t understand or get an effect better they don’t do it because you’re the one that’s responsible to see that they grow up properly but it’s not that the parents the responsibility is to make them Krishna conscious parents have kids because they want that association then since they have them then they’ll try to make them Krishna conscious as long as it fits into their own sense of attachment and then if it all works out and they’re big and married and everything’s situated and you have a good relationship with them and everything’s going nice then they’ll look back with fondness on their previous lifestyles and other things like that which at the time they had nothing good to say about so that’s why that’s why one has to know what’s the position because that’s why the teacher can do things the parents can never do because the point is today the child interacts today you get the gratification for the teacher sometimes you have to wait 20 years someone just told me yesterday something but they were no end of trouble when their kid was around no end of trouble that was back in the 80s so now 2002 2012 it’s probably 16 years later then they had something nice to say so you have to wait so that means the teacher’s doing because that’s his duty the parents are doing because they’re attached you know what I’m saying just like foster parents are not famous for being great parents you have ones individuals who are good but generally if you say so foster parents generally means you know they were basically taken care of but it’s not necessarily there’s any deep affection, there might be but that’s very individual, but in general not because they’re doing it because they can relate with kids or they like the money that comes from it or both and some do it just because they want to help kids out they generally get awards and stuff like that you know what I’m saying so the point is the attachment is creating the problem but because we’re right in the middle of the problem due to ignorance, we don’t understand it’s a problem because we don’t see the problem you know what I’m saying does that make sense so we just deal with the present which is fine, but it’s like the dog running across the road he just sees the other dog that’s on his property so due to attachment he runs across the road he doesn’t see the truck so that’s what the Shastra is doing it’s telling you about the truck you know, and so that’s called birth, death, old age and disease so we don’t like to hear about it but the point is if we’re engaged in our duties then it’s not a problem then our attachments are nicely engaged, they’re purified and everything’s glorious no one’s complaining that the Pandavas had five sons Dhritarashtra has a hundred sons no one’s complaining what the complaint will be is if there’s a Duryodhana the parent wouldn’t correct his son because of his attachment that’s Dhritarashtra’s weakness he knows the Shastras he knows everything, if it’s anything other than his son, you can guarantee you can go to Dhritarashtra and get first class advice guaranteed as far as how to run a kingdom how to manage things what would be politically the right thing to do everything like that yes it is from our perspective every day is an amazing example it’s an extreme example I will agree that it’s an extreme example but to use it to make one’s own example sound better would not be safe because then it’s like I’m okay, Dhritarashtra had a problem no, Dhritarashtra’s use of the extreme example because every aspect of what a general parent is doing is included in what he does otherwise we would say well, he’s attached in this area but I’m not so everything that a parent could possibly do based on attachment that wouldn’t necessarily be good in Krishna consciousness, he’s done therefore every parent can take example from Dhritarashtra just like, let’s say, losing position if you’re emperor of the world there’s no one less than that that can say no, my situation’s unique it’s different you have a fight between members of the family there’s nothing that’s left out in the war between the Pandavas and the Kurus so that’s why these extreme examples are given so that we can’t say we’re not included so of course this is another clever way is that, well, that’s extreme and I’m not so extreme like that, but the principle is the same you know, if you go into a shop and steal a five dollar something, or go and steal a thousand dollar, it’s still stealing of course, the one is more stealing so you’re going to get a heavier punishment but the reaction will be greater, but still that is the principle of stealing you’re still getting the reaction for that does that make sense? so that’s the point that we’re trying to make, is that these false proprietorship is the problem, it’s Krishna so that means, if it’s our quota that means someone else can’t take it away you know what I’m saying?

at least no one that you can deal with, right? you know, if God takes the money what can you say? but in other words, others can’t take it away, so there’s that security of knowing that if I’m performing my duties then the facility that’s generated from my duties is my right to use in the furtherance of my duties you know what I’m saying? so there’s no less how do you say? security we may say, no it is but then, why do you take pleasure in watching other people do things? you’re not doing it but you take pleasure in that you know, you watch a drama or watch a movie or something someone else is doing it, it’s someone else’s relationship you understand? but we can still deal with it you know what I’m saying? so it’s the same thing just because it belongs to God doesn’t mean that you can’t get the same benefit right? means, it never was ours it’s not like it was ours and now somehow or another we’ve joined this religion and it’s saying it’s not ours it never was in the first place does that make sense?

yeah, no, no it’s very deep, so the point is if we understand the principle then every aspect of it we have some leverage on otherwise if we don’t accept the principle that’s why we always start from the principle then we get to the detail if the principle is accepted then it’s a matter of, we’ve already accepted it now we may have a big problem one detail, no problem you know what I’m saying? it’s just like, let’s say being a member of the golf club at least the third one it’s mine, right? that’s easy to give up, like that you know what I’m saying? but some other things may be more of a problem so the thing is if we’ve accepted the principle then easily we can apply it in areas that does go smoothly, where there’s less attachment where there’s no necessity but an area where the attachment is greater, whether we need it or not then we’re willing to at least acknowledge the philosophical points and agree to make steps in that direction does that make sense?

that’s important like that but as we say, ultimately it’s only because it’s connected to Krishna that’s important, so the thing of lack of proprietorship is only important because it belongs to God to say that nothing in this world is ours because we’re here temporarily, we’re born we die, we take nothing with us we come with nothing, we go with nothing from dust we came from dust we shall be so the point is that’s nice, but where’s God? it’s true but where’s God? so therefore, that kind we’re not interested in we’re not interested in that kind of more sentimental aspect, you know, pleasant, poetic thoughtful, provoking but it doesn’t have substance, because the point the point is, the soul is a servant of God, is part and parcel of God, he is created, everything is him so there’s no insecurity because it belongs to him, it’s always belonged to him and he’s willing to let you go on in your ignorance and think it belongs to you and he’s sitting in your heart if we were thinking he’s the guy who’s going to you know, how you say you know, how you say anytime we do something wrong this thunderbolt will come out, a lightning bolt will come, little zop, you know a little pile of ash will be there but he’s sitting in your heart, he sees everything he sees what nobody else sees so all the things you think are secret he knows all of that does that make sense? so, what’s the problem? somebody like that who knows everything and hasn’t already killed you already so then, you know, he can’t be all bad so he doesn’t have the problem that you work with it and have connection with it, it’s that you don’t recognize it’s connection with him you know what I’m saying? just like, let’s say the husband and wife have a problem, so therefore there’s the kids, and then they’re fighting over it now, it’s one thing if they’re working out ok, they’re both their kids, how to work it out what will be best, ok, for the kids education, this situation will be better but on vacation, then, you know, some other like that, right? and so then but, let us say one party won’t acknowledge that the other one has any rights at all they just don’t like the person, they don’t have anything to do with it, therefore it’s that, they don’t consider that the kid likes the person you know, this is mommy or this is daddy, you know, to them they’re supposed to be all together there’s no such thing as the concept of divorce to a child it doesn’t exist it’s a figment of the adult’s imagination it doesn’t exist children, there’s no such thing because husband and wife is a legal status that you can be married or not but being somebody’s, you know, child that’s as long as your life is so that person is always your father that person is always your mother now they don’t want to live together that’s their stupidity but as far as they’re concerned it’s one family so this idea is that, no, it’s my child I’ll do what I want, no, it’s just where’s your right to do that?

you understand? so this is the difficulty that comes up is that all it is is acknowledging what’s already there so acknowledging that yes, I have, I can work with this stuff because God sanctioned it that’s the only reason I have it now let’s say I have a house the only reason I have it is because God sanctioned it so now if I acknowledge that God sanctioned it and it’s His so He’s sanctioned it that I use it you know, and no one else can use it you know what I’m saying? then what’s the problem? you’ve just added to it, you haven’t lost anything we look at it as that if I give up the sense of proprietorship I lose something, no, you gain something because it wasn’t yours in the first place you know, it’s like the child, you’re going through the store and the child sees something and grabs it and you’re trying to get it away from the child and they start crying and this and that right? but it’s not theirs right? and even if it’s going to be theirs let’s say, whatever’s in the child’s room any second we’ll say it’s theirs but is it actually theirs?

technically it’s the parent’s it’s the parent’s room, it’s the parent’s bed the parent’s cabinet you know, the parent went out and bought all the stuff but it’s the quota for the child to use the parent is not necessarily going to come in and use the kid’s shoes or something like that you know what I’m saying? yeah, so that’s the position do you have any problem with that? because we’re so attached as parents that we think it’s such a noble and great thing right? so, therefore it’s so noble then why isn’t it noble that God’s the parent and we’re the children and it all belongs to him we’re simply his child and this is all we’re all God’s children does that make sense? that’s what we’re trying to so this is the fun our attachment of being parent can’t function with God’s position as the parent you know what I’m saying? so that’s the thing like you have these big families you have the patriarch of the family the grandmother, the grandfather technically the whole thing belongs to them but it’s comfortable everybody has their facilities no one’s going to complain so God doesn’t have a problem that you have this particular small little this one apartment in his unlimited vast realm that much square footage is really lost to him he’s not like those female dragons that sit in the cave with all the treasure and they know when one piece is missing you have to remember he’s masculine not feminine so he’s a bit more accommodating does this make sense? are we getting anywhere here? so we’re adding something we’re not losing anything because we’re adding that it’s ours, but it’s ours because God allowed it to be ours because if he didn’t allow if Supersoul didn’t sanction we wouldn’t get the apartment we don’t like things so simple no, it’s actually pretty straightforward just Maya she covers and throws and so because of ignorance we can’t tell that that’s what it is we’re so attached that it’s not like that so all we’re doing is acknowledging that this is actually the way it is and when you acknowledge it like that then one can attain real peace that’s the thing as long as that’s accepted it’s just like the guys that let’s say you know it’s a rare thing the guy is let’s say he’s been he’s in jail and there’s so many things he’s done wrong and this and that and they’re blaming him for and he doesn’t appreciate it so is he peaceful? no but now you know the rare thing then he acknowledges at some point that actually it is his fault he is responsible right? so what is that good ending of that theme?

that maybe the point is what is the thing that they bring out? because you definitely don’t see them kill him what do they bring out?

no he’s peaceful he’s adjusted with it he has no problem and then you see everybody else is around because they’re still attached he’s the criminal or he’s the justice person then you see that they are having he has no problem it’s very rare they use this one but it’s used sometimes so the point is when we acknowledge that yes it’s my attachments and all this and that then we become peaceful because it’s not ours so the anxiety that we have to worry about this for ourselves is not there it’s what will be best for Krishna and therefore that’s why there’s quotas because so many devotees may use the same item very nicely for Krishna like your car, everybody could drive it to the temple but that’s your quota to drive to the temple and they want to drive to the temple they get their own quota unless you’re in L.A. and you have to carpool or something like that you need somebody to sit in the front seat so you can drive in the fast lane look hey so we can say that children are affected by second hand maya yes but at the same time as you’re born into that family that has just the right maya for you otherwise that’s why consciousness the consciousness of the soul and the consciousness of the parent that’s where they match you know what I’m saying because within someone’s consciousness there’d be so much variety but whatever’s the consciousness at the time of conception that matches that particular child so that’s why if the lifestyle is pure generally the conception will be pure that’s the whole idea so it’s not just Garbhodan Garbhodan stands on its own it means someone to do Garbhodan means that there’s going to be a lifestyle otherwise why would they do Garbhodan we’re getting anywhere here nobody feels bad can be grumpy inducing puppets you know I kind of remember we’re in this paragraph we finished the one in the bottom without falsely claiming proprietorship over anything in the world I mean anything that’s something is the perfect stage of Krishna consciousness one who is situated in this perfect stage knows that because Krishna is the proprietor of everything, everything must be used for the satisfaction of Krishna because if we say it all belongs to Krishna it’ll be used for Krishna if we think it’s mine, I’ll use it for me and what’s Krishna’s is Krishna’s and what’s mine is mine so we’re at the temple, that’s all Krishna’s we do a nice service, everything’s good and when we go home, that’s mine I’ll use that for me real desirelessness is desire for the satisfaction of Krishna now we’re getting into positive because there’s the negative of retraction but then the real thing this is why we don’t have to focus on it means in discussion because of lack of understanding or due to ignorance we may take an element of retraction and really go into detail like we just did here on the point of the parents the point is that we see them as servants of Krishna and our service is as a servant of Krishna to how to get them best to be Krishna conscious then automatically retraction is taken care of it’s not a separate endeavor so that’s why we don’t have to endeavor it as a separate thing you mentioned all the points and then you said or is it a separate endeavor you said there was something I hadn’t thought of does that make sense so you mentioned all the points they’re not that difficult so it’s just acknowledging that that’s what it is rather than ok it’s all this maybe it must be something else because it can’t be all this does that make sense so now is real desirelessness so now we’re going to the positive real desirelessness is desire for the satisfaction of Krishna not an artificial attempt to abolish desires because the retraction if it’s connected to Krishna then it becomes real but it’s indirect but when we just see that it’s connected to Krishna then that connection is direct though the usage of it may have a few steps to get there you know like his toothpaste took about six steps his took about one or something I got there you got there so that’s the point ok so not an artificial attempt to abolish desires that means abolishing desires by it’s not connected to Krishna just getting rid of the desire that’s good in itself like being sense controlled they stand on their own so that connection is something important no it’s only important because it’s connected to Krishna does that make sense but everything connects to Krishna therefore all good qualities are the natural position the 26 qualities generally most culture people in the world would consider at least 25 of them as pretty good and probably most would also the thing of being attached to God having faith in God they consider that good so the 26 qualities wouldn’t be seen as bad the living entity cannot be desireless or senseless so there’s no such thing to say oh no you have to give up your desire that’s not going to happen that’s what we’re discussing in the Vedic psychology that’s a misnomer comment that we think oh the mind’s engaged, senses are engaged no I have to give that up no you have to engage the mind and senses in positive activities because there’s no question on stopping activities that’s why it doesn’t work Mayavada Buddhism don’t actually work because you can’t do that the living entity means desire and to express that desire means the senses the question is whether you want to use the inferior material senses because you think the results of engaging the senses are our own or you can use the superior spiritual senses because you know the results of engaging the senses are for Krishna and so therefore since you’re enjoying by someone else being happy which is what we do most of the time anyway but this is you’re dealing with superior elements so the happiness is so much greater yes from a gross rascal materialistic point of view it was seen that many Buddhists are very peaceful that’s when you only see them when they are peaceful they don’t come out you know what I’m saying point is you go into a monastery how many monks do you see I’ve never been there anyone’s been there thousands no in one monastery when you walk through one monastery you see a couple like that but there’s hundreds that live in there right so they’re sitting in their room so whether they’re peaceful or not you know what I’m saying you can try make a rule all grumpy devotees have to stay at home only pleasant devotees can come out and go to the temple the visitors for sure for preaching greeting the visitors oh yeah generally I think we have yeah you generally pick somebody who’s quite gregarious anyway so at least they get an idea that everybody’s like that until they join yes but then they find out you know they’re grumpy and everybody else is grumpy it’s not me but the point is you have a solution like that you have a solution permanent non grumpiness a living entity cannot be desireless or senseless but he does have to change the quality of the desires so that’s all it’s the quality of the desires not the desire itself it’s the quality the desire for children doesn’t have to be changed but that you know that the children are raised in Krishna consciousness as opposed to just however we like that has to change so it’s the quality of the desire or just like you want to eat but it’s the quality of the eating you know that you’re cooking for Krishna you know the standards of that that’s changing but otherwise you’re going to cook go to the market, buy things you’re going to cook, you’re going to eat that doesn’t have to change it’s the quality of it not the activity itself you know what I’m saying do we notice a pattern here you know in the philosophy it’s the same thing over and over again slightly different angles slightly different presentations but we notice that every time we come up it’s as if it’s something new so what does that mean it means we’re very attached to this one simple point we don’t want to give up on it gets smaller and smaller but we still have some left like discussions amongst devotees yeah yeah that’s what vichar is vichar is to discuss from different angles that’s why when somebody asks a question is bringing at a different angle I don’t find it’s a problem but the difficulty generally is that the quality of the discussion isn’t at the same as what’s going on in the assembly you know what I’m saying so due to unfamiliarity or you know how you say whatever practice it’ll go off on a tangent and won’t actually deal with the subject matter so it starts off seeming as if it’s a different angle on the same thing which is nice because the more angles you look at it then the more we can kind of like how you say you fix it just like you want to know your location you get two stars then you can tell where you are you know so that’s the whole idea is that is that is by more points you can more exactly pinpoint your position and know how to apply the philosophy into your position so that’s why if there is discussion there is a variety of things you know it’s considered good but it should be connected with the topic actually so it does actually have that effect does that make sense so discussion is the main thing that’s why we say sadhu sangha when we say bhagavatam it’s hearing and chanting so both are going on so if nobody has any questions somebody is talking because then Krishna consciousness is going on but if there is a question or some other points still Krishna consciousness is going on Krishna katha is there the point is to always have Krishna katha does that make sense yes so the different angles are ok the fun part is they just pick this stuff up it’s just sitting there they pick it up and start playing you know doing stuff like this after like two weeks a materially desireless person certainly knows that everything belongs to Krishna and therefore he does not falsely claim proprietorship over anything does not falsely claim because it’s not ours but we may have as it goes here we may have our quota our quotaship over it nigra pastime the issue is about the quota the nigra you know king nigra oh niriga I was thinking king niriga who is king niriga then I was thinking of niga makal pataru probably ok of niriga oh yeah yeah it’s a matter of but it’s also quota is there but here it’s just a fault as every action is covered by fault but even though he did everything so perfectly still because it’s such a great thing he’s giving away tens of thousands of cows and charity you know like this that somehow another by management because who’s going to move them around it’s not kings and stuff it would be cow herds and other assistants so then somebody wasn’t watching and a cow got back and gave to another another cow another so because of his position and how well he does everything executes everything that’s the complaint of the Romans you know you’re taking you’re performing such great work and taking credit for such great work but such a simple flaw you’ve allowed to happen you know what I’m saying but you know it’s also just the arrangement of the Lord because no matter what he tried to do the Brahmins weren’t being pacified so Krishna had some plan so it worked out you got personal darshan of Krishna you know okay as a loser but hey at least it’s better than most of us that’s a statement you can get yeah but yeah with them it’s the quote that’s the argument you’ve given it to me and you’ve given it to him you can’t do that so you know this transcendental knowledge is based on self-realization namely knowing perfectly well that every living entity is an eternal part and parcel of Krishna in spiritual identity and that the eternal position of the living entity is therefore never on the level of Krishna or greater than him this understanding of Krishna consciousness is the basic principle of real peace because all other points will build on this right so he says here it says based on this knowing perfectly well that everyone is an eternal part and parcel of Krishna in the spiritual identity we’re not saying that his external identity that that’s the part we’re saying is part and parcel that’s just whatever it is it is within his laws but it doesn’t have that spiritual position because we have to be able to distinguish between material and spiritual otherwise we’ll say okay that means what they’re doing is spiritual that means anything they do you always have to make that distinction right and so then then it becomes very easy does that make sense we accept that because it means we’re able to have these discussions because this principle has been accepted right and then because of that then these other aspects okay that’s me you know but then there’s the body okay I’ll kind of get with that my staff head draw the line there so does that make sense so that’s the idea but the one thing is there you can kind of chip at it a little bit you know erode it a little bit and then leave it and then sometime later it’ll erode a little bit more got to the next page oh we’ve got one minute yeah 272 that is the way of the spiritual and godly life after attaining which a man is not bewildered if one is thus situated even at the hour of death one can enter into the kingdom of God so that’s the way of spiritual and godly life so it means all that’s been discussed before that’s the path and everything then that brings us to that then we won’t be bewildered all these things will be very clear to us you know that’s the difference let’s say we’re expert in a particular area and some and others are not what is the difference between our perspective on it and understanding and the person who’s not it’s very clear yeah it’s clear you can see all the things there’s no what connects with what what does what exactly there’s someone else they can’t quite tell and it all kind of looks the same it’s like the funny the western cliche that anybody oriental looks all the same for the westerns but it’s very funny it doesn’t waste a second Govinda Maharaj was saying that in China they can’t tell the difference between him and others because all westerns look the same so he thought that was really hilarious it’s such an American cliche all the Chinese are the same so when he went to China they thought he was someone else like that he says you can’t tell that’s all the westerns are the same so like that one is able to tell the difference so so let’s see how we do tomorrow ok so I guess we can take these back upstairs they look nice you can still hand them out oh you can hand them out 60 rupees ok I’ll leave it up to you Om Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • We have to not only understand that we are not this body, but also that things connected to our body are not ours. One may have enjoying mood without proprietorship, or proprietorship without enjoyment.
  • A person of brāhmana, kṣatriya or vaiśya varṇa may run a temple, keeping their priorities in the forefront. But most temple managers in ISKCON are vaiśyas.
  • Discussion on sense of proprietorship.
  • There is no problem in us using our quota in the service of Kṛṣṇa.
  • Parent vs teacher training a child. Every parent can take an example from what Dhṛtarāṣṭhra did wrong.
  • We are under the impression that if we give up the sense of proprietorship we lose something. But actually we gain, because nothing was ours in the first place.

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