Bhagavad-gītā Thematic #30

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Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.” Okay, 1617.

Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes proudly perform sacrifices in name only, without following any rules or regulations.

So, due to ignorance and illusion, the demons reject authority or scripture.

Thinking themselves all in all, not caring for any authority or scripture, the demoniacs sometimes perform so-called religious or sacrificial rites, and since they do not believe in authority, they are very impudent. This is due to illusion caused by accumulating some wealth and false prestige.

So, a little wealth, a little prestige, and immediately then they become very proud, right? Not much, it doesn’t take much, just a little bit. So they’re, you know, very proud beyond what they have. In any case, to have any pride like this at all, because even though you have so much great knowledge or facility, it’s still not that much, it’s still temporary, so it’s not yours for very long.

Sometimes such demons take up the role of a preacher, mislead the people and become known as religious reformers or as incarnations of God. They make a show of performing sacrifices, or they worship the demigods, or manufacture their own god. Like this, there’s one, there’s temples now, there was a movie back, I’m not sure when it was, maybe in the 80s I think it was, it was Santoshi Ma, like that, it was about, a form of, like Durga, like that, but they called Santoshi Ma. So there is no Santoshi Ma, they just, that’s the name of the movie, so they made like that. But because it was such a popular movie, there are now temples of Santoshi Ma deities. Like that, you know, so that’s the point, they make up their own. Or you have Ayyappa, who’s supposed to be half Vishnu, half Shiva, like that, supposed to be a combination of Shiva and Mohini Murthy, like that. So you have like that, lots of followers, lots and lots of followers. So they’ll make up their own thing, so many incarnations are there, that’s very common. Like that, so it’s, these things go on.

Common men advertise them as God and worship them, and by the foolish they are considered advanced in principles of religion, or in the principles of spiritual knowledge. So for karmis or jnanis, so they take the form of karmis or jnanis, so they do sacrifices, or they show themselves as more spiritual, so they’re more religious, like that, but on the side of karma, like that, you know, doing good work, nice things. Or on the side of God, you know, there’s knowledgeable men, or both. They’ll also do both, it’s very common. Because if you’re not doing something for the benefit of others, and you’re not, you know, doing good work, you don’t accept some variety supreme, you can’t become popular. So therefore, for popularity, then even these, you know, Mayavadis, who don’t believe in any, you know, God or anything, then they’ll do worship, they’ll do, you know, charity, open, you know, different dharmashalas and different things like that for people’s benefit.

They take the dress of the renounced order of life, and engage in all nonsense in that dress. Actually, there are so many restrictions for one who has renounced this world. The demons, however, do not care for such restrictions. They think that whatever path one can create is one’s own path, like that, this is, it’s, it’s, it’s not well known that in Kanyakumari, there’s a, there’s a temple there, it’s on an island. You know, I mean, it’s, I mean, it’s right next to the shore, but when it’s low tide, you can get to it, and when it’s high tide, it’s actually water. And so, there’s a, the deity there, some will say it’s Lakshmi, some will say it’s Durga. And so then, I guess the Shaivites worship is Durga, and Vaishnavas worship is Lakshmi. So then, there’s pictures there, somehow or another, I’m not sure how, but there’s, there’s pictures kind of like a, a museum of, I guess, Vivekananda, right, and his, his, you know, preaching efforts and all that. And so, there’s one picture when he’s in Chicago, like that. And so, he wore a suit, right, you know, a three-piece suit, and the fats, and you know, the hair parted in the middle, you know, nicely combed and everything. And on each arm, there’s this, you know, you know, a really, you know, snazzy-looking girl. Right, that’s some big picture taken and everything like that. So, you know, so you have, you have these very interesting kind of things.

That, so that’s the thing. They think whatever path one can create is one’s own path, right? You forge your own path and all that, yeah. Means you can forge your own path into illusion, right, but to get out of it, then you have to follow Kṛṣṇa’s.

There is no such thing as a standard path one has to follow. So, here again, standard, Prabhupāda used the word standard, which is established by the ācāryas, that’s standard. The word avidhi purvakam, meaning a disregard for the rules and regulations, is especially stressed here. These things are always due to ignorance and illusion, right? Because if you don’t know, because you make it up, but it’s not that you make something up that it’s going to work. But people don’t know what is happening, then it doesn’t matter to them. So, as long as it carries a basic form, right, there’s some kind of deity, there’s some kind of like arti, there’s some kind of mantras or something being chanted, you know, some fire, some like this, then it’s good, right? Or you have a yajna, as long as stuff’s going in the fire, some mantras are chanted, you know, like this. But it doesn’t really matter what you’re doing other than that, because, one, the common man doesn’t know anyway, right? And then here they make it up and then say whatever path you follow, then that works. So, people believe it, people buy that, because of the atheistic mentality. So, this element, it comes down to not caring for authority or scriptures. That means they don’t care for authority, that means they don’t follow any authority, but that means that they make up their own thing, so they’re their own authority. It’s their path, what they established, and that’s the right way to do it. And then people will follow that, and then you have to do it in that way, you know, that’s the, you know, proper un -bonafide way to do it, you know, like that, you know, so it’s like that. So, they get very, very absorbed like that.

Bewildered by, 1618, Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust, and anger, the demons become envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in their own bodies and in the bodies of others, and blasphemy against the real religion. The demons are envious of the Lord. A demoniac person, being always against God’s supremacy, does not like to believe in the scriptures. He is envious of both the scriptures and the existence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is caused by his so-called prestige and his accumulation of wealth and strength. He does not know that the present life is preparation for the next life. Not knowing this, he is actually envious of his own self, as well as of others. He commits violence on their bodies and on his own. He does not care for the supreme control of the Personality of Godhead, because he has no knowledge. So here, also, in these, where Kṛṣṇa is explaining about, about the universal form and other places, then they, they take up, also, the aspect is the super-souls and the heart, so he’s in control. So there’s rules that you do to take care of the body. So then, they don’t take care of the body according to those rules, so they do all kinds of austerities and fasts and that, that are not approved by the scripture. So then they create trouble for, you know, themselves and for the Lord. Right? So it’s, it’s, so violence, and then the other aspect of violence is, by not connecting to Kṛṣṇa, then that’s actual violence to the soul. Right? So it’s not necessary to go around and physically harass everybody, though they may do that also. You know.

He does not know that the present life is a preparation… Oh, yeah. He does not care for the supreme control of the Personality of Godhead, because he has no knowledge. Being envious of the scriptures of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he puts forward false arguments against the existence of God and denies the scriptural authority. Right? So you have those that will pick and choose from the scriptures what they like. The scriptural authority means that that scripture is taken, you know, and according to standard understanding of application. But no, they’ll take something from this scripture, something from that scripture, so it appears that they have a regard for scripture, but they don’t, because they just pick and choose as they like and put it together how they like. So the conclusion is not according to authority.

So they’ll make these different things up. Yes? Maharaj, you said that they make the concocted deities and stuff like that and worship. Do they get any kind of reciprocation? Or it’s all their… Reciprocation? But who would reciprocate?

If it’s concocted, who would reciprocate? They’re having such, so frightened, those concocted murtis and stuff like that. People have faith in Amitabh Bachchan, you know. He sits down in this veranda every day and gives blessings, you know. In the morning there’s hundreds of thousands of people standing there. You know what I’m saying? You know what I’m saying? People have faith in science. People have faith in so many things. It doesn’t mean that you get anything from it. Okay. You know what I’m saying? It inspires them to continue in life, but it’s not that you get some specific benefit. So to be worshipping a deity that means the person who they’re worshipping is not there because there isn’t such a person. You know what I’m saying? So how would that work?

You know. So that’s the thing. So it’s empty, so then it’s not that somebody can’t, you know, move into it, like that. Whoever happens to be passing by at the time, they’re like, oh, cool, you know. Stand there, get worshipped, and… Yes.

Yes.

But generally you see they’re not as prominent, like that.

Generally if they don’t have any facility, nobody recognizes them, like that, they’re not really going to stand up on a, you know, soapbox and make a lot of noise. So one has to have a little bit of wealth or a little bit of prestige. Even if they don’t have wealth, but they have people listen to them. You know what I’m saying? So then, you know, it’s like people do go to Hyde Park and listen to the guys standing on their soapboxes there. I was thinking that it was because of the wealth and the strength that was stopping them getting world consciousness. No, no. The wealth and strength isn’t. It’s that, the demontiac nature. So when they get a little bit of wealth and strength from previous pious activities, then they become very proud and misuse it.

Is that what you’re saying? That’s what’s happening. Well, see, wealth, strength, fame, all these things, they are opulences of the Lord. So they are not bad in themselves. It’s how one uses them. Like material energy isn’t bad. Right? None of Krishna’s energy is bad. It’s how you use it. That’s what makes it good or bad. Like that. So that’s why things, oh, yeah, the wealthy people like this, oh, the poor people like this. No, it’s just people will apply it and you can become distracted because you’re wealthy. You can become distracted because you’re poor. You know what I’m saying? So it’s the same thing. You know, someone becomes envious, someone becomes jealous, you know, or, you know, these kind of things, it’s all the same element.

It’s the opposite reaction. You have something, so you become proud and you think badly about anyone who doesn’t have it. Or you don’t have something, so you become, you know, angry and you become upset with anybody who does have something. You know, so it goes, it goes, it goes both ways.

And that puts false arguments against the existence of God and denies His scriptural authority. So scriptural authority here then establishes things. Scriptural authority is not you pull what you like and interpret it how you like. That’s not scriptural authority. Yes? When we’re reading this, coming from the West, do we all say, like, about the Western theologies and the religions also? One can think privately. I’m not going to go into that publicly.

You know, because the thing is, is you have, where do their rituals come from? Somebody starts, it’s like one thing is, okay, you have, let’s say, a Christian faith. Right? You know, so that belief in Jesus as the, you know, the one who is practicing His teachings that one can, you know, elevate oneself. Okay. But there’s already established rituals and methods. So anything one could add would be a deeper understanding or a freshness to it or bringing it from more materialistic to, you know, the more devotional or spiritual. But it doesn’t, you don’t have to change the form.

Does that make sense? Change the form?

Because it seems they make things up all along. But what are they making up? They’re making up forms. Okay. They’re making it up. Yeah. So that’s the point. They’re not changing it, but, you know, they’re creating it. So the point is, where does that come from? This is saying that they make up their own, their own, see, you have to be able to, if you want to be able to deal with these things other than one’s own thought, then one has to be able to deal with just the fact, the situation without applying the, how do you say, expressing the interpretation or the feelings or things like that. Because the point is, what we’re going through is, is you have a set of rules, you have a form, it’s been going on for thousands of years. Then you have a different idea of how to, to apply the teachings.

So that doesn’t mean that there’s any need to change the method of ritual, of expression.

What is necessary is the change in an attitude. Right? Just like to give example, Jesus didn’t change the religion.

He was trying, he was, means, he was trying to show that the practice had become very ritualistic. Not that the ritual should change, but it simply would become mechanical or had become very, what do you call it, very mercantile, like that, or mercenary, or, you know, all these kind of elements. And so the consideration of others, consideration of yourself, consideration of God, you know, it’s something beyond just what facilities and prestige and all that wasn’t, wasn’t being understood. Right? The idea that you’re religious, then you’ll get material benefit, that’s, you know, that’s okay if you’re, if that’s who you’re going to, if you’re practicing Dharma for Arta, which you shouldn’t. You know, you should be practicing for higher purposes.

But… The thing is, is he was a Jewish rabbi. You know, there wasn’t anything not Jewish about him. You know, it’s just what particular prayers you emphasize. So he’ll, he’ll emphasize ones of, you know, these more niceties, while then others will, will, will emphasize more the ritual and the benefits, like that. So that’s all. But he didn’t change the religion.

Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. But, and his immediate followers were also Jewish. But at some point, it changed and became a whole new set of rules and regulations and rituals. Though, they, you know, trying to maintain the teaching, but where did those rituals come from? You understand? So that means everything is made up.

But where did they come from? Because anybody who spoke the scripture was Jewish.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s the thing, it’s mixed, it’s made up. It’s made up. So that’s the point. So what’s being pointed out here is no, there’s already authority. Religion is given by God. So it’s a matter of following that. Now, there’s different levels of appreciation by consciousness on how to appreciate and apply religion. But it doesn’t require a change in it, in the form of it. Does that make sense? So, what they’re discussing here is that people will pick and choose from something that’s there. And then, you know, it’s just like, okay, they kept the fish and the wine, but they kind of got rid of everything else. You know, like that, because, you know, because Jewish means Jesus, you know, they’re very strict on dietary restrictions, right? But when you say that this particular, you know, living entity is Catholic by diet, what does that mean? It means it eats anything. There’s no restriction.

So, how do you get from, your teacher is strict in his dietary considerations, but you don’t care at all. And even restrictions that others follow, you don’t follow. So that just means one doesn’t, is not caring for the authority, you know, of Scripture. You’re just picking and choosing what you like from Scripture. So I can’t, I kind of agree with this, I can’t, that’s what I’m thinking of people, this is what the Christians are doing. So therefore, they’re, I should understand that they’re envious, and that. No, no, but see, it’s that, you have to be able to separate what aspect is there, that aspect. But, the, the thing is, is now, is the particular personality now, is he not, is he disregarding his own Scriptures?

Well, what I’m thinking is he is going to approve that. So is Pallad Maharaj. So is Pallad Maharaj. Okay. You know what I’m saying? So, he’s following his Scripture. So don’t be so generic as he is. No, because that, that doesn’t, doesn’t work so good. The point is, is he’s following, but it’s the person who’s making it up, that’s where the problem is. You know what I’m saying?

Because, they’re changing it. The others are, are dutifully following. But if you have someone who doesn’t care for his own Scriptures, there again you have a problem. Because I mentioned before, is that, the principle means, in its generic sense, is that they’re not following Scriptural authority. And so it’s not being said what Scripture. It’s just, whatever is the Scripture of your, your religion, then if you’re following it, then that means you’re accepting authority. You’re not following it, that’s where the problem lies. But then, ultimately, there’s the element that the Vedic Scriptures are the, giving the, that highest form. So, so therefore, if someone is born into this family to follow others, means that, generally means there’s something there on why that would happen. You know, there’s a tendency, like that. But the point is, is, if they’re, if they’re willing to follow authority, then you speak on the principle of authority. Scripture says that you have to follow authority. So they have to understand there’s different levels of the Scripture. And if they say, no, no, there’s only one Scripture, then it’s like, kind of like, well, funny thing is, your teacher didn’t, didn’t follow the New Testament. There was no New Testament. He followed the Old Testament. So if you don’t base the New Testament on the Old Testament, you’re not a follower of Jesus, at all, in any way, shape, or form. Doesn’t matter how much faith you have, and how many guitars you strum, you’re not a follower of Jesus. Because he accepted the Old Testament. So if you don’t base the New on the Old, and you don’t base what you’re talking about on the New, then you’re not connected, you know, like that. Faith isn’t enough.

You know what I’m saying?

You understand? So, the point is, is, you establish the principles of Vedanta within their field, and then from there take it up. And because, if, if from there they understand what’s the higher principles, then they become purified. Then they’ll be able to accept, you know, moving from there. So the principle, you can go from the Old to the New, and then we have, and most people aren’t, generally, means, means those who are Catholic generally are more open than those who are Protestant, on some levels. If they’re, if they’re strictly following Protestants, they’re generally more closed than strictly following Catholics.

More closed, because there’s no culture.

There is no cultural background to work with. The Catholics, there’s some, because, generally speaking, Catholicism is only left in those areas that had a culture. You know what I’m saying? Because Europe didn’t really, but they would go out and apply it and make the, you know, the Latins, you know, how you say. So they have a culture. You know, the Chinese, this and that. They’ll make them. So there’s already a culture there. So there’s something more to work with like that. If not, just at least the principle of authority.

Protestant, if they’re not so strict, then they don’t have any ideas, so then they’re, they’re more easy.

But if they’re, if they’re strict with it, what’s the culture? Where’d it come from? So they’re even dropping what little what had developed over, you know, a thousand years.

Does that make sense? Because the point is, is the person is the culture they follow. Right? Because the culture they follow is the reflection of their philosophy.

Right? So if you have a philosophy, you can’t talk to some of these people because it’s, do you have faith in Jesus? That’s all it is. If you say yes, you’re done. If you say no, then there’s a problem. But more than that, if you say yes, that’s it. That’s the end of the discussion, end of the philosophy, end of everything. There’s nothing more. So what do you have to deal with?

You know? Yes, yes. But no, see, it means if you can keep it to the principle that’s there, then you can discuss what it is. Okay, faith, but faith in what? Let’s say faith in Jesus. So that means faith in his body.

You know? That’s what’s special. Jesus had such a great body like that. You know, if the magazines had been around, he would have been on the cover of Vogue and GQ and all these. He would have been there. He was the man, right? But no, it’s that his teaching, it’s in his practice. So the thing is, when you’re not following the teachings and the practice, then what’s the meaning?

He died. But what about, that’s your sins, but that was then. So it just goes on, one death, and then unlimited sins are piled on? How does that work? Because you do one thing, and it exonerates a certain amount. It’s not that it keeps going.

I mean, they think it keeps going, but how is that logical? The point is, no, no, but that’s the point where you’re discussing.

You know what I’m saying? In other words, all the emotional interpretation of it, that’s the part you leave out.

That’s what they’re standing on, but if you stand on it, then you have your sentiment against theirs.

This is talking about anybody who does not follow scripture. That’s all.

You know what I’m saying? So why them? What about the Shinto guy in Japan?

It just means anybody who’s not following scripture, then you apply it as needed. You understand? Because the point is not to generate emotional feelings about the other person. It’s supposed to generate emotional feelings about the commitment to Krishna.

No, because if it’s talking about Vedic culture, then it means it’s talking about us, if you want to apply it that way. It means us sitting here.

It means you go to the temple. How many dress the way Prabhupada mentioned?

What does Prabhupada say about tattoos?

Prabhupada said it’s demoniac because you’re injuring the body. How many people have tattoos?

So is that not demoniac? So the point is you want to take it to that, you can take it right here. You don’t have to go all over the world for it.

So that’s what I’m saying is that you’re not going to be able to apply it to them successfully unless you can do it without that emotional commitment to it. Because every time we talk philosophy, no, but then that’s where you’re going to have problem. It’s your faith against theirs and you won’t win.

You know what I’m saying? You’re going to win by knowledge. That’s what he says. These things are always due to ignorance and illusion. So the only way to clear it is with knowledge. So unless you can go through the process with a logical way, there’s no way to approach it. So that’s what we’re discussing. You know what I’m saying? Because otherwise, your question, all I had to do is say yes and then move on. But then you would get no benefit from it because then you say yeah, it’s them and then you go back to the demons at home and all this kind of things like that and you would just, you care for them and then you just break down the relations even more. But unless you can separate what is actually wrong, that someone has faith, that’s good. Faith is a good thing. The point is you’re supposed to have faith in something recommended.

You know, I mean faith in Jesus, but faith in what in Jesus?

That’s what I said. You know, he’s a nice guy, he’s got a great beard. You know, the thing is there’s a good chance the guy was a Svarti. You know, like that. You know, Svarti means he’s the local boy. He’s not Ashkenazi. He wasn’t one of the effects of the Diaspora that he was actually from somewhere else, you know, like Poland or Ukraine and he, you know, migrated back down to Israel. He’s one of the local boys. So that means you would have a little bit of color to him. But all the Western, you know, how you say, paintings of him, you know, he’s as white as you get. You know, he’s like a bonafide cracker. You know what I’m saying? But great beard. Great beard.

Yeah, so the point is the thing is is that you have faith in the teachings.

You know, that there’s faith in the Vapu. That’s nice, but that’s sentimental. But faith in the teachings, that is something you can work with and elevate yourself. So the point is, is do they have faith in the teachings? That’s where you discuss. And what are the points? We’re subservient to God. Right? Our duty is to serve God. It’s supposed to be with devotion. These are points that they can’t disagree with. If anybody claims to follow religion, they can’t disagree with these because they’re universal truths. So if you discuss on that platform, then it will work. You’ll be able to discuss with them and get somewhere. But if you simply go as, you know, you’ve got to have faith in Jesus, otherwise you’re a demon. You’re going, well you’re not following Scripture, so you’re a demon. You know, it’s not going to get anywhere.

But that’s another thing. You don’t have to go into detail.

In agreement. So therefore, does the Bible not say about chanting the Lord’s names? So then, try that one. The point is, what is the principal point? It’s not being a vegetarian. That’s the dynamic element. It’s chanting the Holy Name is the dynamic element. So God has unlimited names. So this is the names recommended for this age. Right? Because there’s a good chance, unless there’s some kind of, you know, Catholic or East Orthodox or something like that, they don’t have kirtans.

You know, but the East Orthodox, they do do kirtans with cartels.

Like that. They go out on Sanctum. They know that this is what you’re supposed to do.

You know what I’m saying? So, you know, they have to be doing something. Be chanting God’s names. That’s where it starts. Have that faith. And then from that, they’ll be able to listen more.

You know, and then you can always appoint. Okay, if God’s a person, why do you say He has no form? You know, so you can discuss what’s transcendental, what’s material. These are points. They don’t have anything to say about that.

I’ll get to that later. Just matter and spirit.

You know what I’m saying? Because that’s the basis.

No. That shouldn’t be tough because it’s not in their theology. So it’s beyond. There’s nothing. You only have a problem where there’s a ritual to connect to. That’s what I’m saying. If you deal on the philosophical platform, there’s no ritual. So there’s nothing to get attached to. Philosophy doesn’t… Emotions don’t come up about philosophy.

Emotions come up about ritual.

The greenies aren’t jumping up and down that this is God’s creation and we have to be in harmony with God. They’re jumping up and down that you cut down a tree. A tree is life and that gives this and that. They’re jumping up and down about a ritual. You know, they go… They don’t go out there and stop, let’s say, a ship that’s transporting a new shipment of underwear from China. They go out there to stop an oil tanker. You know what I’m saying? Stuff like that. So it’s a ritual. They created their own rituals. So they’re all doing that. The greenies are doing it. The scientists are doing it. The academics are doing it. Your grandmother’s doing it. They’re all doing it.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s the point is anything like this, it’s all. It’s not that they’re nailed specifically. No, it’s every last person who’s not basing their life on Scripture is doing this.

You know, as I said, you know, it means you get your Orthodox Jew. They argue over what kind of underwear is bona fide and is according to the Bible. It defines things. And so they get into can it be this? Can it be that?

You know what I’m saying? You know, you’re strict Buddhists. They have codes. You’re strict. They have codes.

You know what I’m saying? So the thing is is there are people who do follow. The smartest follow very nicely. Just they don’t know what the purpose is of following.

You know what I’m saying?

So the point is is it’s just a matter of not following. So who follows? You know, how many people do you know that really follow? You know, in the world. So therefore, the demodiac nature is basically anybody.

You know what I’m saying? Why target one group? If you happen to be dealing with that group, then the weaknesses of that. But you have to know what’s the weaknesses of it. Otherwise, it’s ritual against ritual. And then they’ll say, well, what’s the difference? The point is, it’s not a matter of ritual. It’s a matter of what is the purpose of that ritual. That you can always discuss. Then it’ll work.

A little louder.

Means there’s a saying that in the Satya Yuga, the demons and the devotees, they lived in different planetary systems. Right? In the Treta Yuga, they lived on different continents. Right? You know, Ravana’s on one planet. You know, the demigods are on the heavenly planets. The demons are on the lower planets. Right? Treta Yuga, on different continents. So Rama and Neta are in India. Ravana’s in Lanka. Right? Then in the Dwapara Yuga, there are different families. So you have the Pandavas and the Kauravas. In the Kali Yuga, they’re in the same body.

So like that, basically. The point that Krishna is giving is to apply this to oneself. It’s very easy to look at it into someone else. But if you can find it in yourself, it means, are we not bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust, anger? Right. But the point is, so that’s the demoniac qualities. But, we’re trying to engage yourself in Krishna’s service. So, these things aren’t our driving force. For the demons, these are their drive. They are their desire. We may get distracted by them, but they’re not our focus.

Right? But the demons are that. Self-complacent, impudent, no one’s impudent, deluded by wealth, false prestige, we don’t have that. Devotees, they have a lot of money, they come and give a donation, and then they figure, now they can say whatever they want, they can tell you what to do. Why? Because they gave some money? What does that got to do with what you’re doing? You know, they like what you’re doing, so they gave you some money. It doesn’t mean they know how to do what you do. Otherwise they would do it. No, they can’t. They can make money. Which is good. It’s important. But it’s just because you make money, that means you control everything? That’s the bourgeois culture. You understand? So that doesn’t happen. False prestige, proudly perform sacrifices in name only. You know, so many times we do all kinds of things like this and that to make them up as we go. Like that. It’s very mild, but the principle is there. Just like I said, we have, every temple in the movement has a Pancharatra Pradeep, and I guarantee, except for about three or four devotees in the movement, no one’s read it. But all the deity worship is going on. Where’d they come from?

You know what I’m saying? So that’s the problem. You know what I’m saying? Because they’re not following the white book either. So where are they getting it from? So that’s the difficulty. It’s just, we have a tendency to, because of our, because of our conditioning to not follow authority.

Right? And so just wherever that applies. You know, if the temple president says to do this, who cares? GBC says, who cares? You know, so it’s like this and that. You know, it just, so where does that come from? That comes from the demoniac nature. So, every living entity in the material world, basically, why one’s here is because of that. Now, we’re discussing on whether someone’s pious or impious, or the divine and demoniac, just which side of the cycle of samsara they’re on. They’re going from the top towards the bottom, you know, or from the bottom towards the top. But generally, it kind of, it’s in between that it kind of switches. Halfway down, one starts to notice that it doesn’t work so good, until halfway up, and then one becomes proud again. Right? You know, like that. That’s how it kind of functions.

You know what I’m saying? So, so, all we’re dealing here is not that the souls themselves are divine or demoniac, it’s just their conditioning happens to be divine now, or happens to be demoniac. You know, and then there’ll be mixes. You know, partly divine, partly demoniac. The person really cares, you know, you have the, you know, that lady next door, she’s very kind, she, you know, feeds all the animals and like that, and she’s very nice on Halloween, she gives all the kids stuff, and you know, she’s very nice like that, and you know, sometimes comes over and sees something and says something, gives something, and like that. But, you know, she’s a, she eats cows, you know, so there’s a mix.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s, that’s the thing, is that, that’s where we make the distinction, technically the distinction between a Maleksha and a Yavana, is the Maleksha is a meat-eater, and the Yavana is one who’s against Vedic culture. Right? So generally, Yavanas are always meat-eaters, but that’s not the, that’s not the drive. So you can meet real nice Malekshas, you know, especially out in the countryside, and that, you know, pleasant, really nice people. You know what I’m saying? But they’re, they’re meat-eaters, you know, like that. So, so, you know, their habits are unclean and all these different things like that. You know? But also devotees, it’s like, you know, that they, that means the only place in the world, in our movement, that you see a tap, you know, in the bathroom, in the shower, is in India. You know, you only see showers in the shower. How do you wash your feet in a shower? You can do it, but it’s really difficult. But a tap, you just walk in, wash your feet, walk out.

You know? And also, you open the tap, you can fill up a bucket, right? Really far out, you know? You can wipe the floor, you can wash your clothes in it. Quite amazing, right? So it’s amazing that one of the most practical, simplest things that you, anybody could put in any bathroom is not in any one of our bathrooms anywhere in the world, but in India. You want to fill up a bucket, you got to put it in a sink somewhere. You know, if you’re fortunate, you can go outside and there’s a tap outside for putting the hose on for watering the garden. But other than that, there is nothing. So how do you clean? How do you do anything like that? Why not? Because cleanliness is absolutely zero value to anybody but here in India, and maybe a little bit in Asia. Right? They’ll wash your hands before the tea ceremony or something. Yes? Could you just remove the foot bathing tap at the temple? Could you just remove it? The back and front tap of the… But this is not a forum for that. I understand, but how do you… The point is is you can’t go in where the toilet is. There is a tap there. They’re not removing those. It’s just outside the temple, so I don’t know. That’s there, but this is something for the temple. That’s a management point. I’m talking about a principle here. Like that. So if they’re not following it, the principle applies. You know what I’m saying? In other words, this should not be used as a forum to bring in political or managerial or economic kind of…

How do you say? Issues. Issues, yeah, or drives. It’s a matter of if it applies, use it. So then you could go to them and say, hey, it says, Rupa Goswami says, you’re supposed to wash your feet before going to the temple. How are we supposed to do that? And if they say, well, you guys leave the tap on and there’s no water. It says, then put a different kind of tap that the water turns off or you make a mess. So make a bigger place for washing, you know, so, you know. Does that make sense? Like that. Otherwise, then we get distracted. That’s what we see here, especially this year is that where it means it comes up, it’s coming up less and less, but it’s the idea is to be able to see what is the Vedantic aspect about it because it’s universal. Then you apply it to the time, place, and circumstance of your appointment, you know what I’m saying? Like that. Yes? According to the text, if the modern-day Christianity diverges its teachings from the scripture, from their scripture or from the Vedic scripture, does that mean it’s not a bona fide path to follow? Well, what will the ritual do for you? What’s the ritual for?

Yes. So, the point is they’ve made it up. So, does it actually get that? What does it indicate? Why it’s being done? So, if that is there, okay, then someone can follow that and at least they’re following some authority and there’s some meaning, but is the meaning being taught? Does the person who comes to that particular place where the religious services are held, do they know why they’re doing what they’re doing?

You know what I’m saying? How is that? I mean, they take the goblet and they wash it there and everything like that and then fill it up with the wine and then chant the mantra. Why are they doing that? What’s going on? The priest may know. I use the word may. Right? There’s a good chance the theologian knows.

The priest may or may not know.

Yes, so the point is the weakness is that what is there, because it’s not a matter of okay, these things are there. That’s the position. But the point is are they following it? Because there’s even that’s what we pointed out the other day, someone brought up one of the hells is that a hell for someone who is following a made-up religion or has made it up himself and doesn’t follow his own rules. Right?

So there’s a hell for those who may be following a bogus religion but that they’re not following the rules of their bogus religion they’ll go to hell for that. So in other words the element of following authority is so important that you can even apply that it still has an element of piety that person’s properly following a bogus religion. Because at least they accept the principle of authority. Because the demoniac is you don’t accept authority. So therefore you won’t even follow your bogus religion properly.

You understand? So we’re trying to get an authority here. So we don’t focus on okay, so a thousand years ago then this came in and where’d it come from and so therefore technically it’s bogus. Point is is that are you following it or not?

Like that. And so then if you come to the point okay, well what is it for? So what is the principle? And what is if you don’t then okay then you know what you’re doing but if not what was before that?

Would that principle of going to a palace also account for the management who take away the taps to wash their feet? The point is this is not what’s the point? What’s the point? It says in Harnam Chintamani that it’s an offense to the deities if you go in the temple without washing your feet. It also says it’s an offense to the deities to wear socks in the temple. I never read that part. Go check it out. Go tell how many are there. I read it. The sock. Is it clean? I read it. It’s been walked all over the place. Nobody minds.

Are you supposed to wear sewn cloth in front of the deity?

I never read that. Have you ever read that you can’t wear sewn cloth in front of the deity? I thought that was just for the pejorative point. Yeah, well that’s a nice way of getting at it. I read the 55 in Harnam Chintamani but not these. There’s other scriptures in Harnam Chintamani. But Harnam Chintamani is not known as the authority on deity worship. It’s on chanting the holy name and the deity worship that supports it. Do you understand? So my point is is sewn cloth is not the standard. You go into a Sri Vaishnava temple they are, all everybody, even they’re coming for darshan, they’re not wearing shirts. In Trivandrum, you can’t go into the temple to take darshan if you’re wearing a shirt.

You can’t wear sewn cloth. The women don’t wear sewn cloth. They have another time when the women go to take darshan. Because no one wears sewn cloth. That’s the pancharaptic standard.

You know what I’m saying? So if we’re going to get that kind of strictness, then make it balanced.

You don’t mind, but you have to make it balanced.

Otherwise, you just pick on one thing and not another. Okay, they took out the taps and so now no one can wash the feet. But why did they take out the taps? That you have to check. Generally, from what I’ve seen, is people leave it on, they misuse them, they make it into a mess, and so therefore it becomes too difficult to maintain. Because everybody wants to use the tap, but who in the community wants to clean it? Oh, that’s up to the nubaptas, which nobody knows and doesn’t know where they come from and who’s in charge. You know what I’m saying? So there is a reason. Otherwise, why are those taps turned off and not another tap?

You know what I’m saying?

Does that make sense? Yeah. And so, there’s also a tap at the back door, but I don’t see anyone washing their feet in it. They only come out to wash the ends of their fingers, you know, after they’ve eaten maha-prasad. But, you know, what about the hands and feet? So it’s not happening anyway. So even you have a tap there, how many devotees are washing their feet before they go into the temple? Like that. I generally don’t see anybody. I only see people use the tap after they’ve eaten. So the tap there in front of the panca-tattva, it’s convenience is it’s there to wash your hands and feet after, you know, eating.

Right? That’s generally what I’ve seen it’s used for. A few people may use it. So my point is is that if, you know, five people use it and then then then then the management turns that off, so why is it only the management is the bad guys? What about the other, you know, 700 devotees in the temple that didn’t wash their feet and wouldn’t have washed their feet even if there was a tap? You know what I’m saying? So that’s why we have to be careful is not target authority just, you know, and not everybody else. The principle of not washing your feet, that’s the point. The principle of, I mean, Christians not getting taught so badly but then come to us not getting taught properly, correct? Of course. But the point is is a manager a temple manager is a temple manager. The people who teach are someone else. Traditionally in all temples in India is the temple manager he manages the temple and then there’s supposed to be spiritual authorities above him.

So then it’s technically not even the managers but the spiritual authorities above them that haven’t pointed this out.

You know what I’m saying? Is the manager supposed to manage? In the West then the manager and the spiritual authority are supposed to be the same person. But in India they never try to make the same person. Kshatriyas and the Brahmins are two different groups.

Like that. So one has to also, you know, that’s the way it’s supposed to work. So in other words the principle is what you have to look at. Right? Because the detail then there may be a good reason maybe not a good reason maybe understood maybe not understood. But the main point is this due to ignorance and illusion that things happen.

You know what I’m saying? Somebody thinks being practical is the most important thing or, you know, some other thing. Who knows? It could be that they didn’t remove it it just broke and no one fixed it. Because… It’s a worldwide phenomenon. It’s not just… Yes, that’s what I’m saying is Bhaktivedanta Manor built their bathrooms. There is no facility to wash your feet. They built the bathrooms. Los Angeles did make facility to wash your feet before going into the Deity room. I don’t know if they still have it but they used to. Hungary built facility. That’s two temples in the West out of four I don’t know minus India out of 300.

You know what I’m saying? So this is the point. So it’s not just here. It’s in the world. So therefore you have to address the senior devotees not the local managers.

Yes.

Actually at one point Prabhupada did say that if you knew all the rules and… That was I think 69 or 70. My gosh it’s the first time I’m hearing that people wash their feet before going into the temple. I’ve been doing it 36 years. But it’s right there I’ve read it you read it so many times. In the Gita? No there’s other books in Gita you know Sub-Nectar Devotion and… It’s not too many rules I mean it’s just washing your feet is a pretty standard thing. I mean what is the whole what was the whole big kerfuffle about Mary Magdalene?

She washed Jesus’ feet right? Because that was what everybody did before they came inside the place was wash their feet.

So how come how come Jesus’ followers don’t wash their feet? It was a pretty standard thing.

You know what I’m saying?

Time, place and circumstance this is India, babe. There’s no time, place and circumstance here. If you’re in a car driving between London and Birmingham OK and you stop at a petrol station I end up in time, place and circumstance. You’re in a temple you’re in a house there is no time, place and circumstance. You can wash your feet. When I first came into the temple that was the first thing they taught us was after you ate after you went to the toilet after you went to the shower you wash your hands mouth and feet. They separated off the toilets. Well the toilet up on next to the temple that was only for shower and stuff. The one downstairs was the toilet. You know and every Sunday you had to you know re-clean the whole place because somebody un-taped the toilet to use it one of the guests like that. But they wash their hands I can still balance and wash my feet in a sink because you have to do that anyway because there is no other fill cylinder like that. Anything else I do I’ll fall over but that one I can still do. Why? Because that was what we were taught so then why is it so strange? No I was talking about washing your feet after eating I wasn’t talking about What about going to the toilet? Not passing urine? Who said not passing urine? Urine makes a lot of mess. I wasn’t taught that. You weren’t taught that because of these points here. Self-complacent you know and not performing following any rules and regulations because they never did it. But they probably told you about washing your hands because they learned that in third grade. But that’s the only reason if they had been born in the 50’s they wouldn’t have taught you that and so therefore they wouldn’t have taught you. The only reason the devotees wash their hands is because their karmic school teacher told them to.

It’s not because it’s what Prabhupada said. Prabhupada said hands mouth and feet after going to the toilet after that not toilet didn’t mean if you’re passing urine passing no it’s just toilets are dirty the floor is dirty the whole place is dirty how can you go in and come out and not wash your feet you’re touching the floor.

You understand? So the point is these points that we’re talking about it’s the devotees do this because of ignorance and illusion that’s all. They think oh that’s fanatic no it’s fanatic for a Malacca yes but it’s not it’s normal for an Asian I mean the Chinese they wash their feet you know they all do that they wash with water you know it’s the whole of Asia and the Middle East after they go to the toilet they use water so it’s pretty standard and so you got a billion people here you got a billion in China right and I’m sure that if you took the rest of the Orient and the Middle East you got another billion so that means half of the planet washes their backside with water after they go to the toilet and somehow or somehow or another oh it’s not practical in Kali Yuga in this age it’s just pure unalloyed nonsense and they’re proud of it so as soon as you go to oh no but that’s I never you know so who cares God established this so he said cleanliness that’s what he’s saying always unclean you know so it doesn’t go in the toilet but because it’s convenient devotees then say silk can go in the toilet but it’s right there in the book that it can’t go in the toilet you know and Panchayat Pradeep was produced back in the what in the 80s early 90s you know like that so it’s like the mid 90s so it was it was there you know so anybody who’s a Pujari should have read it it is the GBC book actually it was in the late 80s because I was yeah yeah yeah the orange one right yeah so it’s not even in print now you can’t even get it yeah yeah well nobody’s read it so you don’t have to feel bad I think I’ve met two or three people who’ve read it I’m trying to buy it I can’t get it anywhere I’m trying to buy it no no it’s out of print it’s a GBC book why would it be in print huh oh okay oh okay yeah okay so a new one will come out you wait and there’ll be a new one so these are simple things that my point is is just take this and apply it wherever it goes but we have our own issues so therefore we’ll only apply it there and then everything has to stop for that it shouldn’t happen like that you apply it if it applies use it like that because religion means your lifestyle right it doesn’t mean that when you go to the church that’s religion and then the rest of the week it’s not there’s a ritual they get up in the morning right the ritual you get up in the morning and you know in some places they’ll brush your teeth first in some places you go you get your coffee you get your whatever else you eat with it in the morning you get the newspaper or nowadays you go and sit down on your computer and look at the email or the Facebook like that you do that for a while and when you feel semi-human then you go and brush your teeth take a bath like that like that and these are the more cultured ones I don’t want to offend anybody by being too ritualistic and too fanatic here and then they go to work and things like that then they come home in the evening then you sit down and you have your beer and then you you know you read your newspaper or you know again go on your email and things like that and then there’s some kind of dinner that either you know somebody cooked you put in the microwave or you ordered or you went out to dinner right and then you come back and then you know if you’re a little intellectual you might read a book before going to sleep if not you watch something like that if not you do more Facebook and other stuff like that you know what I’m saying this is not real world nothing to do with no but that’s that’s the western ritual it’s a ritual that’s what I’m saying it’s a lifestyle so the whole thing is that this is there why? because they want to be you know comfortable they want to be informed you know so it’s happiness information you know that they’re situated they’re peaceful so it’s still addressing satchitananda but in a very strange way you know what I’m saying so every culture you go to they have their rituals the ritual is the religion religion means the inherent nature of something so why do we say it why is it so widespread because this is the inherent nature of a malaysia this is what they do right you know what I’m saying so that’s the scientists they have their own religion right they follow their own particular things the way they think the way they talk the language and all that so religion simply means what it is that you apply in your life based on what you value so the point is is the highest religion means religion becomes human at varanasi right and it becomes real when you take up devotional service right because human doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s real you know it’s still we’re not the body so then at at at at at that point means krishna consciousness then it becomes real now they have their conditioning from before and that’s fine and as long as it’s something that’s there and they’re working with it and they don’t know it doesn’t matter but it may get in the way because the point is the lack of cleanliness the lack of culture and the lack of these things do create you know increase the modes of passion and ignorance so it’s just that much more distraction so people follow them it makes it easier that’s why the previous verses were saying this is conducive for liberation because it creates an environment of goodness which isn’t creates an environment of knowledge right and so knowledge gets rid of ignorance and illusion so therefore that gets rid of demoniac qualities because it says the first thing you do is start with intelligence it’s by intelligence that you start the process you know you’re able to control the senses and control the mind because of knowledge like that because other things it’s like faith is there it means that’s good but you need the knowledge also but it’s not the ultimate that’s why when the faith is mature knowledge isn’t required it’s just that mature faith but that mature faith you know starts at at bhava you know and it actually becomes you know to its proper state at prema so up to bhava knowledge is necessary it’s quite useful so what I’m trying to say is that these principles that are here then we take them and so we use some example to try to bring them to you know to practical but then we shouldn’t take that and then start going sideways with them you know we should take them and see okay that applies here and in my situation you know I have this this this so does this apply if it does great if it doesn’t then then ask the question on that does this connect but you know but then to come out with the thing it’s already a conclusion therefore you know the management is demoniac or something because they’ve taken out the tap but why they’ve taken this and that you know how many others are demons you know like that you know so like that you know so I doubt it’s that they washed their feet before going to the temple and they took the tap out so they probably don’t wash their feet either you know but like I said so many don’t so why focus on that one it’s an inconvenience it’s not it’s not good but you know that’s there if one can do something about it great make it nicer for everybody but if not then there’s no advantage to thinking like that you know the point is is that where does this apply in my life if I can correct it in my life then I can help others because if you go in and say you know you took the tap out it says here and if you don’t do that then that’s nonsense it probably won’t go far in a management meeting you know if you point out the point of cleanliness and this and that and how cleanliness is important for the upliftment the mode of goodness and all that so that’s why the scriptures recommend washing your feet so what about washing the feet and if they say well the outside people this that then put a tap somewhere where just the devotees will use it you know what I’m saying so in other words the conversation is going that they’re doing their service to Krishna the best they can and you know they’re thinking about so many big things many times the details get lost especially something this big right there’s a thousand devotees that are within the project and another thousand outside so it’s not that they only have to manage one thousand those thousand outside they all come to the temple it’s not like in Sydney where 30 live in the temple and 300 live outside or 500 but only you know those 30 plus a few more come to the temple no they’re all involved so they actually have to manage the place for them plus you have you know hundreds of thousands from outside so many times they lose the details just in trying to deal with something so big you know but we can’t fault too badly because temples that only have you know a few devotees they’ve missed out on the point also does that make sense? so you have to come in from the philosophical point and then bring it to practical you know what I’m saying? but these elements the qualities demoniac but it doesn’t mean that the person is the demon does that make sense? the devotees much of the time by how they live their life by culture are malicious all they’ve done is remove the meat eating the intoxication the gambling the illicit sex left everything else the toilet paper is still there you know what I’m saying? like that so so but there are karmis who also don’t gamble or have illicit sex right? you know it was a big thing in the Christians the Catholics the abstinence they even wear a chastity ring and stuff like that so even they have that concept right? you know they don’t gamble probably there’s a good chance they don’t even smoke or take intoxication good chance they’re meat eaters but you probably also find a few of them who are not so you have some you know following all regular principles but the lifestyle is still the same intellectual lifestyle and devotees follow that lifestyle so the point is is educating on why these other principles are important you know what I’m saying? so why should the culture and the philosophy match? all devotees are Vaishnav by philosophy but by culture they’re not necessarily you know Vaishnav you know what I’m saying? a few things here and there they’ll connect so the food they’re offering to Krishna the pictures on the wall generally are about Krishna not always sometimes the landscape but you know stuff like that you know so a few things there’s generally an altar in the house you know then they generally have a set of books they have Prabhupada’s books and a few things like that so these key things they’ll have which are the major elements of all rules you know so they have the big ones and then small ones they don’t have but the problem is because of those small ones they get distracted because there’s so many of them so that’s the weakness it’s not that the Vedic is maturely better that’s why we’ve chosen it no, the Vedic is better because its application is directly in line with the philosophy that’s why it’s the approved method because the great sages they’ve used it like that so we may not understand it but the idea is that you know you know it’s better if it is understood but it’s always taken as oh these are you know you learn these as nubaktas right but the problem is if you have a community there are no nubaktas nobody moved into the temple and got trained in that way right so before the bhakta program you were trained in the temple the bhaktas were trained in the temple the community what’s the training for them do they sit down and discuss these things with them generally not so then it won’t be spread nobody will know about it you know what I’m saying so it’s the principles and the philosophy that are important and from there work it down through the principles into the practical because otherwise it just comes in with the emotional conclusion and what one feels about it then it’s your emotional conclusion against theirs they were being practical and you’re you know being religious and so then there’s always going to be a fight and generally they’re bigger they win the reason I mentioned it is well again is because at the moment I’m just editing a book of commentaries on Harinam Chintami and it highlights so then I yeah yeah no that’s there but it’s but yeah it’s just why we didn’t want to go too far in that is because about six weeks ago we were studying Harinam Chintami in this class like that so we went through all the rules so it’s a known rule but I think if you check out of all of that then chanting Hare Krsna in the association of Vaisnavas and hearing from them instructions on Bhagavatam that would be the primary of all of those rules 16 .19 those who are envious and mischievous who are the lowest among men I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence into various demoniac species of life demons attained by the demoniac forms of life as for the demoniac it is clearly said here that they are perpetually put into the wombs of demons and thus they continue to be envious the lowest of mankind such demoniac species of men are held to be always full of lust always violent hateful and always unclean the many kind of hunters in the jungle are considered to belong to the demoniac species of life so now I didn’t mention what the jungle is made of whether it’s trees or cements attaining repeated 16.20 attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life O son of Kunti such persons can never approach me gradually it sink down to the most abominable type of existence so that’s so special is the devotees preach to these persons in such situations and then those who are fortunate are able to take up Krishna consciousness and those who are not then it’s already said where they’re going right the demons can also receive the Lord’s mercy sometimes the asuras are killed by the Supreme Lord but this killing is also good for them in the Vedic literature we find that anyone who is killed by the Supreme Lord becomes liberated there are instances in history of many asuras Ravana Kamsa Hiranyakasipu to whom the Lord appeared in various incarnations just to kill them therefore God’s mercy is shown to the asuras if they are fortunate enough to be killed by Him Riti even if an asura is not killed personally by the Lord he can still attain his mercy by receiving his instructions so that you’re not killing in the form that they think they are that’s the demon but the nature that’s the demoniac because that was Nityananda Prabhu’s okay in these other ages then it’s very obvious okay here’s the demon here’s the devotee so you could kind of single them out but in the Kali Yuga everyone’s got the devotee and the demoniac so then Nityananda’s point if you’re going to kill Jagai and Madhai I mean they’re bad okay they’re the worst but you’d actually have to kill everybody you know because it’s like everybody’s got you know issues so lesson six so the point is they’re going to continue in that line unless Krishna consciousness comes along and of course give them you know thousands or millions of births they’ll come around and they’ll be the pious guys and the ones that are now the pious they’ll be the demoniac but the point is they’ll just keep revolving in that cycle unless they get Krishna consciousness right unless God consciousness is given then this cycle won’t stop you know so it’s not that oh the divine is so great and the demoniac is so bad no it’s just the divine the divine are nicer and the demoniac are less nicer but both are material both stay in the material world does that make sense?

so the demoniac qualities they don’t have any advantage in Krishna consciousness so they should be removed they should be given up you know and the divine ones those are useful in Krishna consciousness but otherwise then they’re just more piety you know just nice material yes I was wondering why didn’t Lord Sri Krishna just kill everybody? why didn’t he kill everybody? no that’s coming yeah you got four hundred and twenty seven thousand years to go and you know then he will and then it would have been a clean slate but then clean slate but then where would you get your population from? so then but there are more jivas coming all the time more jivas coming yeah but you might have to wait a while more jivas coming but they come in this brahma how long does he live? okay right so there’s going to be you know a while goes by but he didn’t kill them because there’s trusted oh so you want to wait till the demigods fall down so also there’s that they change every every seventy two maha yugas so then you have seventy two you know kala yugas with no souls in them and also is the kala yuga itself is that inherently sinful? is it inherently sinful? in the air or something? it’s just you breathe it and you become sinful I don’t know fortunately we’re in the dom here so you just breathe it you become spiritual I mean it’s the atmosphere and all that it’s dissociation so if you if you’re near the dried fish market in bangkok then maybe yes you have to say just by breathing it so it’s it’s mainly it’s mainly vikarmis who take birth in the kala yuga is it mainly vikarmis who take birth it means those who are inclined towards controlling and enjoying as is offered in kala yuga they take birth in kala yuga and then isn’t there isn’t there so kalki then he comes and then it’s a clean slate but then they start satya yuga so they they start with personalities on that level so that’s not a problem and then isn’t there isn’t there like a beautiful fragrant wind or something that goes past and it that removes all the kala yuga smell and then a breeze a beautiful fragrant breeze and then it purifies all the minds and then that’s kala satya yuga no but they’re all dead isn’t that something stages or something kalki is definitely left no but it means they’re three foot tall so where do they come from in the satya yuga they’re they’re living in the Himalayas they’re just waiting for the end the two kings and that will start the dynasties in the Himalayas that mentions the village so if you want to go find them okay lesson six such materialists when they listen to the instructions of godhead in other words bhagavad-gita attained to the transcendent loving service to the lord now we’ve given this very you know stark definition of the demoniac life right very blunt you know no no gloss on it no nonsense yeah but the point is he’s saying here such materialists when they listen to the instructions of godhead like the gita then they attain transcendent loving service to the lord that’s the whole point is that devotional service is so strong they don’t catch even them so we were discussing before is not that the quality in question is not a demoniac quality but the point is it’s the instruction of the lord that’s going to catch them not a rule because they’re material and external they will see the rule they’re following a rule you’re following a rule so it’s just your rule against their rule but if you’re discussing actually Vedanta then it’s above rules it’s beyond it’s the universal religion so then when one is able to discuss on that platform and then when there’s agreement there then you can start to apply it to the practical you know what I’m saying so devotees make the mistake is that Krishna consciousness is simply the external element you know you’re a vegetarian and this and that so they’ll preach only those things that would be modernly accepted like vegetarian you generally can’t talk about because there are wide numbers of people especially at yoga studios and that they’re not how you say offended by the concept but then but we’re very soft about all these other elements because we’re dealing with only the externals because the externals are time, place and circumstance but Vedanta is not it’s universal right the Krishna consciousness philosophy is universal therefore it can be discussed to anybody at any time in any situation it’s just like that what form you use what words you use like you see so many times it goes here back and forth about the instructions of Godhead like in this whole because this is analysis not much in the point this Prabhupada talked about that use Krishna generally Godhead the supreme like this because this is analysis of it but in the purports then he’s making it very clear you know about worshipping the personality of Godhead Krishna he’s the supreme personality right ok so here 7.14 this divine energy of mine consisting of the three modes of material nature is difficult to overcome but those who have surrendered unto me can easily cross beyond it so it’s difficult so the as we see the asuras are not overcoming it right but here but those who have surrendered can easily cross it so one takes up devotional service one can easily cross that’s why the impersonalists they have very little chance of crossing the conditioned soul is controlled by the material energy as previously stated both the material and spiritual natures being emanations from the supreme personality of Godhead are eternal the living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord but due to contamination by the inferior nature matter their illusion is also eternal the conditioned soul is therefore called nityabhadra or eternally conditioned no one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history consequently his release from the clutches of material nature is very difficult even though that material energy is an inferior energy because material energy is ultimately conducted by the supreme will which the living entity cannot overcome inferior material nature is defined herein as divine nature due to its divine connection and movement by the will of the Lord so it’s divine because of its connection to the Lord so that’s we can see also there’s the divine qualities ours because they’re connected to the Lord Krishna is the superior qualities and then those are reflected you have their inverse so those don’t represent the Lord yeah so also being since time immemorial then the amount of conditioning and the habits that’s why it says that there’s this network of these thousands of interwoven desires because of being in the material world so long does that make sense the tough housewife but you know she likes to ride motorcycles so she’s installed on her custom motorcycle a blender so she can make smoothies while she’s out so she doesn’t have to eat all this other garbage that’s not healthy so these are blends of desires how they all fit together only the Lord as representative can release the conditioned soul another meaning of guna is rope it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion a man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself he must be held by a person who is unbound because the bound cannot help the bound the rescuer must be liberated therefore only Lord Krishna or his bona fide representative the spiritual master can release the conditioned soul without such superior help one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature devotional service or Krishna consciousness can help one gain such release Krishna being the Lord of the illusory energy can order his insurmountable energy to release the conditioned soul he orders this release out of his causeless mercy on the surrendered soul and out of his paternal affection for the living entity who is originally a beloved son of the Lord therefore surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is the only means to get free from the clutches of the stringent material nature so by surrender then one can get to that position so as was said before is that the Lord descends himself or sends a representative and so the important part of that is the instruction right that’s what’s going to free one from and so as it’s been here is now this point is being made where right it wasn’t made after describing the divine it was made after describing the demoniac because it was after the divine you could say yes it applies to the divine but the demoniac they don’t stand a chance see they birth after birth they just keep going down and down and down yes that’s true that’s what will happen to them but the transcendental instruction of the Lord that being given to such persons will save even them right so how nice will it work with someone who’s divine right it’ll work great does that make sense Riti having established that even a sworn materialist can revive his Krishna consciousness by following Krishna’s instructions Srila Prabhupada next quotes the Lord’s final instructions given in Bhagavad -gita 1865 because he said by surrender then one can’t so now how is this surrender look 1865 always think of being become my devotee worship me and offer your homage unto me thus you will come to me without fail I promise you this because you are my very dear friend one should always think of Krishna and never forget him the most confidential part of knowledge is that one should become a pure devotee of Krishna and always think of him and act for him now here it says yeah I’m a devotee think of him act for him one should not become an official meditator life should be so molded that one will always have the chance to think of Krishna so life should be so molded that means your prescribed duties it’s molded in such a way it’s connected to the Lord so always think of him always act for him so that means act means the life is molded for him so then you have your occupation is connected your ashram activities are connected one should always act in such a way that all his daily activities are in connection with Krishna he should arrange his life in such a way that throughout the 24 hours he cannot but think of Krishna what’s really interesting to note is Prabhupada just mentioned three sentences right after another where he actually said exactly the same thing but by rewording it it brings out different aspects of it and you don’t become bored by it think oh he just said this right you know one should think and act for him right life should be so molded that we have a chance to think of him one should always act in such a way you know that all his daily activities are in connection he should arrange his life in such a way because otherwise life means the ashram right you know act will mean the varna duties you know or it’s also looking at the endeavor but then the point is you have your life your identity who you are what you do then there’s an application then it’s the action right so he’s taking all these different aspects and the lord’s promise is that anyone who is in such pure krsna conscious will certainly return to the abode of krsna where he’ll be engaged in the association of krsna face to face 1866 abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto me i shall deliver you from all sinful reactions do not fear even a sinful person can surrender to krsna now in summarizing bhagavad -gita the lord says that arjuna should give up all the processes that have been explained to him he should simply surrender to krsna that surrender will save him from all kinds of sinful reactions for the lord personally promises to protect him in the seventh chapter it was said that only one who has become free from all sinful reactions can take to the worship of lord krsna thus one may think that unless he is free from all sinful reactions he cannot take up take to the surrendering process because otherwise you would think no but i have all these attachments all these impurities i can’t give up everything for krsna but the point is no he still could give up everything for krsna it is said here that even if one is not freed from all sinful reactions simply by the process of surrendering to sri krsna he is automatically free so the process of surrendering frees you from the sinful reactions that you are afraid of having and so therefore one cannot surrender one should unhesitatingly accept krsna as the supreme saviour of all living entities with faith and love one should surrender unto him so one has that knowledge so now one knows and then with faith and love so we see here that this is where the limit comes of the intellectual aspect the intellectual aspect is you understand what the situation is so ignorance is removed right so one is situated properly but it is still with love faith and love that one therefore acts does that make sense because otherwise one is working with the knowledge in the beginning so you are following these processes that should be given up you should just surrender to krsna right and so therefore you are not following the process because it is supposed to be followed to elevate you it is that these processes are the natural way to engage everything in your life connected to krsna does that make sense it means karma yoga then by following karma yoga it brings to the point of niskan karma yoga so you are giving up the results of your activities for the supreme right for a higher purpose right so but why are you doing that because you know this process is what will do that ok but we see is that he is saying surrender to krsna always think of becoming a devotee worship me and offer your homage unto me so therefore is what is always thinking and acting for krsna so now what is surrendering to krsna ok so he surrendered to krsna now how is he going to express that surrender right all his activities are going to be engaged in krsna service where does it define engaging your activity and connection to the lord karma yoga you understand so your practice of karma yoga is used not because it is the process to elevate you because it is the process to connect yourself it means keep that it means express that that connection with the lord that surrender to the lord you see the difference so it doesn’t mean that now he is going to give up everything because he is going to give up the material concept of everything otherwise if he gave up everything would arjuna been able to as a ksatriya go out there and fight on the battlefield and follow all the rules so it doesn’t mean religious processes aren’t followed but they are not followed because they are religious processes they are just the natural lifestyle of someone who is fully surrendered to the lord does that make sense you know and the important thing is the principle of them because that you can always apply you are in a pious situation then the more nice forms are applicable not such a nice situation then you know you have to apply it to that point yes yes yes it’s above the gunas any process because technically it is the process surrender is the natural so in other words give up all these processes of religion right all varieties of religion there’s varieties of religion but the religion of the soul is surrender to god so in other words you take up your natural position right and then all these other yogas are there to connect the body to the lord the mind to the lord the intelligence to the lord so those are used because you’re surrendered to the lord is that what you said and we can use that process I can say for all time to get to this person it’s difficult to surrender to surrender it is everyday surrender is a situation because it’s your identity you know what I’m saying then because you’re surrendered you’re going to express that that affection through action so action of the body is karma yoga action of the mind is jnana yoga action of the intelligence is jnana yoga you know what I’m saying but you have to express it but the point is you’ve surrendered first the other one is you’re not fully surrendered you’re following the processes to elevate yourself so your goal is to get to that platform of surrender right but the platform of surrender means that the surrender is your situation right and your goal is just to please krishna no no no the surrender is a mentality just like following the process of religion is a mentality it’s piety you know I am I’m the soul krishna’s god I’m his servant so therefore by I’m supposed to be serving god but I have the tendency to not so therefore I will now start with all the activities that I do and now try to connect them all to god right I’ll make that endeavor right so then but we see it’s by using intelligence therefore right but surrender means is that one’s realized I am servant so one just surrenders and then then one acts the other one you’re acting to come to the point of surrender here you’re surrendering then acting so surrender is not a goal surrender is your situation right so here’s your goal is to surrender because you want to please krishna so that devotional element always remains but it’s just that you’re functioning from the platform of surrender as opposed to the surrender being a goal right is that yes I was just wondering when he was in los angeles as anybody they they you know they were taking out the trash and they said you know his faculty or someone said if you don’t chant when you’re doing it it’s not devotional service so i just wondered like how can we connect things like washing clothes filling out tax forms or you know things like that you know connect yeah those things to krishna yeah so you don’t like the the concept of the los angeles temple command chanting yeah it’s you know sometimes like you can’t you know like it doesn’t sound very nice when you’re chanting or it’s not you know you’re in the public you know you’re in the library and you’re like hey krishna hey you just have to chant out loud oh right but then you’re like seven plus nine okay but why are you adding seven plus nine to try and fill out the tax form and why do you want to fill out the tax form he doesn’t he doesn’t i understand rupa goswami says that we should take care of business you know ordinary dealings okay so you’re taking care of business because rupa goswami told you to so you’re filling out the tax form because rupa goswami said you should i’m asking okay so then therefore it’s connected okay and like you know somebody tells you an authority tells one in the temple environment or gurukul or something it’s very clear it’s easy you know it’s like washing your own clothes so if someone else washed them for you we’re not getting an answer goodbye cheap clothes wearing once thrown away seeking clarification on this technique so if you buy a bunch of them and keep changing them no one will know and then they’ll go long and then thrown away why do you wash clothes so they are clean and why would you want to clean clothes in the mode of goodness and why okay so now you’ve connected it you know it’s also it could be so that’s there is that yes so the mode of goodness would promote that but it’s also krishna likes clean vaisnavs like clean and we want to associate with krishna and the vaisnavs so therefore we’re clean so from either way it works the point is to get it back to krishna so anything you do just think why right you know just like in other words you know like the little kid you know you know why are you doing that no no why are you doing that because of this why no because of this this why that so the point is get used to that because if you just follow that then you’ll find either you get up to a point and it doesn’t get near krishna you know but some of those points in between something there you can connect you know what I’m saying so the point is you’re trying to get it more close but it doesn’t matter how many steps it takes as long as it gets there it’s done because I find myself like doing all these different activities and it’s like because I’m supposed to you know I’m supposed to do it it’s my duty and you don’t like that and just get it get things done but then I’m trying to get to this state where because I want to connect to krishna not just I’m supposed to yeah but you’re supposed to why yeah that’s the whole point is why are you supposed to why have the sages recommended it yeah right because all these pious elements the sages have recommended why do they recommend it so that means because there’s some point where you get connected to the lord okay okay so with faith and love one should surrender to him so that’s the impetus is that aspect okay because before that is one’s been one has been practicing because of knowledge right but at this point now that knowledge is gone one has established oneself one has faith in that so that faith and love one can come to that point right because it has to be faith because if you surrender then you’re worried you know how will things work but it works but everything stays in place that’s the good thing you give the food to krishna and for him to eat you’re not saying keep some for me you know like that you know you can have most of it keep some for me you know like that oh we’re having guest over can you leave a little extra today like that no you give it to him and he eats it but he’s so kind he gives it back so the same way if you surrender then whatever is necessary it will be there yes um oh just a reminder this this is this kind of golden colored thermos that’s been sitting around here does it belong to anybody because it’s been sitting over there for a couple of days it’s not there now no it was there yesterday hmm yeah i also bring you some trails oh okay okay yes so knowledge is actually holding us back at this point knowledge at this point yeah when you’re on the cusp between uh asakti and baba yes yes it will it can hold you back it’s just a waste of time no it’s not a waste of time it’s that it’s not the impetus the impetus is not need to come from knowledge it comes from your taste yeah like that so that’s why then the faith and love because the faith and love is mature because before that is we have faith and love for the material but by intelligence we know that’s not good you know the man has faith and love in cigarettes you know but he knows by intelligence it’s not good so he has to adjust it to the point where he doesn’t have faith and love for it then he doesn’t have to use intelligence anymore just you know that’s not good you know does that does that make sense hmm in the process of surrender according to the devotional process one should simply accept such religious principles that will lead ultimately to the devotional service of the Lord right so ultimately means those religious principles that you can take back and connect to the Lord you can’t take them back and connect to the Lord they’re not important that doesn’t mean that you can’t connect how you’re washing goes back to the Lord so therefore give it up that’s why there’s some certain recommended activities right so those remain one may perform a particular occupational duty according to his position in the social order but if by executing his duty one does not come to the point of Krishna consciousness all his activities are in vain so in other words one has to connect it so either you can connect it or if you can’t then it’s not important right because otherwise you’ll continue with it but you won’t become Krishna conscious so it’s in vain you work so hard but what do you get for it you know because whatever you gain from occupation will be lost right so the ashram especially is supposed to be designed so those are activities that aren’t lost right it’s supposed to be sadhana and anapapati but still the connection to the Lord is the essential point because even if they’re pious they’re still ultimately going to be lost maybe not so quickly so varna is basically just about minimizing the trouble from the material world varna is just about creating the facility so that you can practice ashram you know that’s why it says varna first it doesn’t mean varna first means it’s primary no ashram is primary varna is secondary so many make the mistake when Prabhupada says varna first simply means varna it means when you have varna then you can do ashram right how can you be a grihasta if you don’t have a job you know what I’m saying like that but a brahmachari vanaprastha sannyasi they don’t have a varna they may have their inherent nature but they don’t have it’s not expressed so therefore there is only ashram so when they say varna first we’re talking about grihastas you know in other words you’ve been trained and you know your skill then being situated such then you can get married does that make sense or you’re looking at training of a brahmachari ok what’s his nature oh he’s brahminical so I’ll deal with him this way he’s ksatriya I’ll deal with him this way so there’s just something to check right but it’s always secondary it’s never primary but here even the secondary is connected to the lord so it takes on those qualities oh that’s me what’s this weird sound you get the gist he’s got it ok banged in the box yeah ok this guy’s serious he’s got got got he’s he’s he’s he’s he’s he’s got it he’s got taken there he’s he’s taken nasty One should be confident that in all circumstances, Kṛṣṇa will protect him from all difficulties. There is no need of thinking how one should keep the body and soul together. Kṛṣṇa will see to that. You do your duties, that will happen.”

Does that make sense, like that?

One should always think himself helpless and should consider Kṛṣṇa the only basis for his progress in life. As soon as one seriously engages in self and devotional service to the Lord in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, at once he becomes freed from all contamination of material matter. Because that full surrender means fully not contaminated, right? Because what stops our surrender? Contamination.

There are different processes of religion and purificatory processes, right? By cultivation of knowledge, meditation in the mystic yoga system, etc. So these are all religion because they’re dealing with a specific thing. Karma is dealing with activities. Jñāna is dealing with knowledge and intelligence. Jñāna is dealing with the mind, right, and the psychology. So all these things, this process, because they have their nature, they have their religion, right? In other words, karma yoga is the yoga of the body, right? It’s the religious process of the body, right? Does that make sense? You know, it gets results like that.

But one who surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa does not have to execute so many methods, right? Just the devotional method, then what of karma, what of jñāna that is useful, that will be used. You don’t have to use the complete system, right? Because one will say, no, no, but if we take up devotional service, we’re not following karma, all the different elements of karma are not following, yeah, of course not. But the principle that you’re performing an action to get a result, that remains, but the difference is I am a servant rather than I am the master, and the result I gain is for Kṛṣṇa, not for me.

That simple surrender unto Kṛṣṇa will save him from unnecessarily wasting time. One can thus make all progress at once and be freed from all sinful reactions, right? It’s all being done for Kṛṣṇa, there’s no reaction. And you’re not wasting time, so you’re doing very minimal, you know, things that aren’t connected to Kṛṣṇa, you know.

Okay?

Om Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, Śrīla Prabhupāda ki, salve bhakti-vṛnda ki, Jaya, Jaya.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • Any knowledge or facility that we may have is temporary, it is given for our use for a certain time.
  • Demons manufacture their own rituals and religious processes. E.g. Santoshi Maa – there is no such form of Durgā, but after a popular movie in the 1980s there are now temples of Santoshi Maa.
  • For people who don’t know what religion is meant for it doesn’t matter what is happening, as long as there is some fire, ritual, worship etc.
  • If people worship a concocted Deity, there is no one there to accept the worship.
  • None of Kṛṣṇa’s energies are good or bad on their own, it is the use of them.
  • Jesus actually did not change the Jewish religion, he himself was following it. He just pointed out the weaknesses of attitude in it.
  • The faith in Jesus has to be in his teachings, not his body.
  • Instead of different religions arguing over different rituals, one can discuss over the purpose of those rituals.
  • Even those who follow a bogus religion accept the principle of authority to some extent, but the demoniac don’t accept any at all, so they will not even follow their bogus religion properly.
  • Washing feet after going to bathroom.
  • Things discussed in śāstras should first of all be applied and realized in our life, then we can help others.
  • Devotees preach to and thus help all kinds of people in all kinds of demoniac situations in life.
  • Unless Kṛṣṇa consciousness is attained, the living entities will continue to revolve in demoniac and divine qualities through various species of life.
  • Devotees often take Kṛṣṇa consciousness as some external element, e.g. being vegetarian, and then see with whom it can be discussed, e.g. in yoga studio. However, if one understands the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it can be discussed with anyone anywhere, one just has to find the right medium.
  • Even a sworn materialist can be delivered by the instructions of the Lord or His bonafide representative.
  • Life should be molded so that one can always remember Kṛṣṇa. That means one should perform one’s duties in varna and ashrama and all of them should be connected to Kṛṣṇa.
  • Giving up everything means giving up the material concept of everything.
  • Between āsakti and bhāva knowledge may hold us back from surrender.
  • We have to connect whatever we do to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or if we cannot connect something, we have to give it up.
  • Varṇa is only there so that one has a facility to practice āśrama activities. Only gṛhasthas express their varṇa.

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