Okay, page seventy-seven.
Okay, so now we’ve concluded lesson thirty-seven.
Then, in all scriptures, therefore, the only aim is how to obtain Godhead, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So, the devotees are saying, the ācāryas, that any man can attain Godhead through the performance of their prescribed duties. It doesn’t mean that the duties themselves are getting him to that platform. It means that the performance of those duties to please the Lord is getting them to that platform. But it’s not that you have to use something else as the medium. Right? Does that make sense? Otherwise, you’ll think that spiritual, there should be a different medium.
You know, that your life completely changes. No. Life as it is, is just connected to the Lord. Right? Does that make sense? So, that will bring us to the next adhikāraṇa, the conclusion, then, of the whole process. But, the problem is that this present adhikāraṇa, then, will bring up a doubt. So, the doubt will be, here a doubt may arise, is it possible to attain the transcendental Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, by performing material activities? Because the person will be taking it that you’ve said by the performance of your prescribed duties. So, that means the prescribed duties, then, are defined in the āparābhidya, in the non-transcendental scriptures.
So, is it going to be actually possible to obtain the Lord by doing that? This doubt could come up, because there’s the idea, no, spiritual means it has to be something completely different than whatever I’ve been doing before. Right? Does that make sense? So, therefore, you see, whenever they try to depict, the materialists, when they try to depict someone as spiritual, then it’s always they act very strange, you know, like that. They’re always very different, you know, otherworldly, you know, like they’re not there, you know, something weird like that. So, purvapaksa, the objection to this. In Bhagavad-gītā, 1866, the Lord says, Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender to Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.
In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.14.20, the Lord says, My dear Uddhava, the unalloyed devotional service rendered to Me by My devotees brings Me under their control. I cannot be thus controlled by those engaged in mystic yoga, sankhya, philosophy, pious work, Vedic study, austerity and renunciation. So, this doubt has come up, right? And this is their objection, right? In other words, their reason. Just like we have a thesis and a reason, so they have a doubt and objection, right? So, here then, He’s saying give up all kinds of religion, just surrender to Me. I can’t be approached by mystic yoga, sankhya, philosophy, pious work, which will mean your duties, Vedic study, austerity. So, in other words, He’s saying none of these make it possible. So, how is it the ācāryas are saying, just by performing your work, then you can not change the Lord, right? Does that make sense?
So, to clear this doubt, then now Śrīla Prabhupāda makes the following statement. So, Ādhikāraṇa is six. This is possible because Godhead is both imminent and transcendental, impersonal and personal. Right?
So, imminent will mean that, means they’re, how do you say, because there’s, I think, three words that are connected the same. Imminent, eminent and immanent.
Right? So, imminent means it’s going to happen now. It’s just about to happen. Right? Eminent means, you know, very, you know, you know, how do you say, very well known. You know, like the prime minister is, you know, is eminent. You know, like that. He’s a well-known person or a celebrity. But imminent means that it’s subtle, that through seeing the environment, you can understand that that person is involved in it. Does that make sense? You know, like you see a painting and you look at it and go, hmm, no, this must be Rembrandt. That’s imminent. Right? You can tell by the style that he’s there. Does that make sense? So, God is imminent in that you look at the creation and you can see his nature. Right? You know, perfect intelligence, perfect harmony and balance. You know, all these different elements. It works so nicely. So, therefore, you know, it has to be working.
Does that make sense?
Okay. So, Lesson 38. Godhead is both impersonal and personal.
13.13. I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you shall taste the eternal Brahman, the spirit, beginningless and…
eternal… taste the eternal Brahman, the spirit, beginningless and subordinate to me, lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world. Right? So, now, by having this knowledge, you can taste Brahman. Right? So, the point is this, you can’t taste Kṛṣṇa as a person, except through devotion. But through knowledge, you can understand Brahman, or Paramātmā. Right? But the point is this, unless it’s done in connection with devotion, you won’t also see that Brahman and Paramātmā in connection with the Lord, you know, as a person. You’ll think it’s something separate. That’s the problem. Seeing it in connection with the Lord is not a problem. Seeing it separate from the Lord, that’s the problem. Right?
13.14. Everywhere are His hands and legs, His eyes, heads and faces, and He has ears everywhere. In this way the Supersoul exists, pervading everything.
As the sun exists, diffusing its unlimited rays, so does the Supersoul, or Supreme Personality of Godhead. He exists in His all-pervading form, and in Him exist all the individual living entities, beginning from the first great teacher, Brahmā, down to small ants.
Therefore, all unlimited heads, legs, hands and eyes, and unlimited living entities are all existing in and on the Supersoul. Therefore, the Supersoul is all-pervading.
Because all these different… These are all manifestations that He is arranging.
Right? So they’re all His. Right? Does that make sense? So all the different forms, because they’re laws, so you can only have a certain kind of, you know, head or arm or leg, or like this. You know, there’s laws of how it functions. Right? And then within there you can have a little variety. That’s also based on laws. Right? Does that make sense? So one can therefore see the Lord everywhere through this. So anything you see, you understand the Lord is arranging it. Right? It’s in the Lord. Right? And it’s by the sanction of the Supersoul.
So from any of these, then you can see the Lord anywhere.
In Bhāgavad-gītā the Lord says that if anyone offers Him a flower or a fruit or a little water, He accepts it. The Lord is a far distance away. How can He accept things? This is the omnipotence of the Lord. Even though He is situated in His own abode, far, far away from earth, He can extend His hand to accept what anyone offers. That is His potency. In the Brahma-saṁhitā, 537, it is stated, galoka eva nivasatyakīlātma-bhūtā Although He is always engaged in pastimes, in His transcendental planet He is all-pervading. Right? So it’s still Him. But His potencies are taken care. Right? It’s just like, you know, you’re doing something with your hand. Your hand is just doing it. But it’s still you doing it. It’s your hand. But you can also be conscious of your hand doing that.
Does that make sense? You scratch your head. It doesn’t take much to do that. But you can also be conscious of your hand scratching your head. So the point is, if a devotee is involved, then the Lord is conscious. And if it’s not, then the modes of nature are taken care, and then He is Paramātmā. That much manifestation is taken care of. It means He is conscious, but only that much quality of Himself is manifesting to be conscious of that.
Does that make sense? Right? While, if you’re once worshiping Kṛṣṇa, then He is in Goloka. Right? He’s not here. Paramātmā is here. But, if you’re worshiping Kṛṣṇa, then He Himself will extend His hand.
Right? Does that make sense? Depends on our perception, yes. That’s the meaning of āśraya. When you’re dealing with rasa, āśraya means the shelter of the particular relationship, you know, the particular mood. Like that. So, as you surrender, then Kṛṣṇa reciprocates. Because He is everything. Right? So, if He reciprocates His everything, you get the universal form. Doesn’t work out so well. Right? But when one is serving, when you have a particular mood towards Him, He can reciprocate based on that mood.
Yes?
Yes. Yes.
But if you don’t change, He still reciprocates with that. But what you’re meaning is that if we change the vision, then He immediately… Yes. So, in other words, as we develop that affection for Him, then He can reciprocate.
But if you don’t manifest that, how will He do? You know, it’s just like someone may have some affection for someone else, but if they don’t show that kind of affection, you can’t reciprocate, you can’t deal with it. You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? You know, like the parent has great affection for the child. Right? But when you drop them off at, you know, junior high and all that, you can’t reciprocate. You can’t communicate with them the way you would like to, because they don’t have that mood. Because now they’re the punk kid, and all the other punk kids will think it’s stupid if they, you know, said bye to their mom. So they just get out of the car and just walk off. So, that’s the mood they’re taking, so therefore, you just turn your head and drive off.
You know what I’m saying? So it’s like that, you know.
I’m asking because I heard from somebody who was here, but there is not much of interaction, there is just Paramatma, you know. It’s not much interaction, it’s just Paramatma, because they don’t offer much interaction, therefore, there’s only Paramatma. That’s the way it goes. The point is, is Paramatma is the Supreme Lord. You know, because if you think about it, well, there’s nothing much to interact with. You only have one thousandth of the tip of the hair of a conditioned soul. You know. So, if you’re taking Paramatma and kind of writing him off, but at least he’s the size of, you know, a thumb, right? Here, you’re talking about one ten thousandth of the tip of the hair, so that means billions of times smaller, and he’s the Supreme Lord, he’s the citta, he’s not covered by the illusion, and we are, so then, you know, like that. If you want to reduce it down, oh, it’s not crucial, it’s just Paramatma. Oh, it’s not, you know, the pure unalloyed devotee, it’s just some conditioned living entity. You know, it’s the same kind of thing. They have to match it. You know, not that we’re the great devotee, and oh, he’s just Paramatma. That wouldn’t work very nicely. Because the point is, is think about it. Now, you have someone you have affection for, so you think about them within the heart, right? And if that thinking’s very strong, then you feel like that. Now, this person’s living there, it’s not just you thinking about it, they’re living there.
So, wouldn’t that be nice? Wouldn’t that be, you know what I’m saying? You know, as far as relationship goes, that wouldn’t be good. You know, so they’re just saying, just Paramatma. The point is, is, you know, Krishna, that’s the form he can come and live in your heart, because it’s not necessarily that everything you do is all nice and wonderful. You know, so it’s Paramatma, he’ll handle it. You know what I’m saying?
You know what I’m saying? It’s like this. The high court judge at home is not going to hang out with a murderer, right? But as the judge on the bench, he can sit there and there’s a murderer in front of him. You know, that’s where you hang out, but then you get a judge.
It doesn’t make sense. So, it’s like that. So, one has to appreciate what’s going on, but the point is, is the Lord is in the heart. He’s come like that. We didn’t arrange it.
So, that’s why one has to be very careful of these things. Prabhupada said one shouldn’t make so much distinction between Krishna and Vishnu. It’s the same person. It’s one person. You just have so many different manifestations.
You know, we have to, you know, you know, like, we’re here, you know, and it’s cold, and so we’re dressed up like this. You know, and then one, you know, can go home, have the heater on, and then one doesn’t have to wear so much. But you have to do them separately, but Krishna can do them both at once.
Right? Hmm? Heater?
You’ve got to give him one of those. Yeah.
You know, you know, you have those, the AC, you know, for the summer, but you can reverse it so it blows the hot air inside in the winter. Like that. It saves all the hot air for the summer. Yeah, yeah. So, the cold air goes out, you know, you add to the ambience, and then in the summer you reverse it, and that kind of heater, right? Yeah. Yeah, it appears to me that it got connected to the point that they, I mean, one can think that I’m trying to do something for Krishna, but he does not reciprocate. Maybe what you’re doing is, maybe you’re trying, but can you say that I did it? You know, I’m trying to do, I’m trying to cook, you know, but it keeps coming out badly, but, you know, why is it nobody’s going, wow, this is fabulous, best thing I ever had, right? You know, like that.
You know, the point is, is if you’re doing something that he’ll reciprocate, then that means you have a purpose.
You know what I’m saying? I’m doing this so that they’ll like me, or I’m doing this so that they’ll do this for me. It’s like that, so then it still has a motive, so he’s not interested. You should be doing it, doing it just because you want to do it to please him. Such a person he wants to interact with, because it’s like this, how long have we been in the material world and we haven’t noticed super souls, right? So that means he doesn’t have a problem, otherwise, you know, after one lifetime, two lifetimes, maybe three lifetimes, he’ll go, hey, forget this, you know, the guy’s not noticing me, you know, go back home, right, you know?
Does that make sense? But he doesn’t do that, so therefore, if he’s willing to do like that, you should be willing to do like that, then there’s common ground for a relationship, otherwise, then where’s the common, you know, common basis of relationship, right? Krishna comes to the material world, he has no duty to perform, but he does duties, you know, which would be the natural prescribed duties, just to, you know, because that’s the way, set example, and that’s through that he interacts with the devotees, right? He’s a king in Dvaraka, so therefore, he interacts on that platform, he’s a coward boy in Vraja, he interacts on that platform, right? So he doesn’t have anything to do here, right? There’s no work here, modes of nature take care of everything, so he doesn’t have anything to do, right? So therefore, the devotees in the material world, and he doesn’t have anything to do either, because there’s nothing to do here for a devotee, but he follows his duties, and does that to please the Lord, because the Lord follows those to please the devotees. As a side thing, you know, he kills the miscreants and establishes dharma, but that’s no big thing, you know, that the material nature can do, right? But he comes to, because the devotees are there, so the devotees is the same position. In other words, God’s not asking the living entity to do something that he’s not doing, and he’s not asking him to do something that can’t be done, right? So just as if you have no duty, you still do the duty anyway, right? So that’s why it says the varnasrama, so it’s not the varnasrama. So in other words, you can see here where the synthesis is going to come, right? They’re saying, my dear Uddhava, the unalloyed devotional service rendered to me by my devotees brings me under their control. I cannot be thus controlled by those engaged in mystic yoga, sankhya philosophy, pious work, Vedic study, austerity or renunciation. So it means those elements will not bring him under his control, but it’s devotional service, the unalloyed devotion that will. But the point is, is what’s the medium for it? It’s going to be mystic yoga, sankhya philosophy, pious work, Vedic study, austerity or renunciation. That’s what it’s going to be, because you have to have a medium to express it, right? So therefore, he uses the same medium to express his affection. The devotees use that medium to express theirs. There has to be a medium. So that medium is established by God. In the spiritual world, they use it to please him, and he uses it to please the devotees. In the material world, then the living entity uses it to please himself.
Otherwise, why would it be considered pleasing? You know what I’m saying? You don’t do something unless you think, this will give me some pleasure, right? And amongst it, you’ll see his different levels of things, and we’ll say, yes, this is more refined, this is more developed, this is more considerate of others, it’s not so self -centered. You know, it works better for the senses, or better socially, or better intellectually. Why? Because that’s coming closer now to the Vedic system.
Does that make sense? So the Vedic system is meant to give the best possible experience, and to be the best medium for delivering the particular, you know, feelings and desires, like that. Does that make sense? So the difficulty is, we’ve got it reversed. We think, no, this stuff belongs here, and so spiritual is different. No, this stuff belongs there, and we’re using it wrongly.
You know what I’m saying? You can give something very nice, some very sophisticated thing to a small child, right? Like if you give your iPhone to a baby, what’s the baby going to do with it? Either it’ll go in the mouth or they’ll bang it on the ground.
Those are two options. I don’t think there’s a third. After they’ve done one of those, then they’ll leave it on the ground and crawl off. Right? So that’s what’s going to happen. So does that mean now, you know, iPhones are meant for putting in your mouth and banging on the ground? No, they’re meant for, they have other work that they do. But in the material world, that’s how people use varna ashram and mystic yoga and renunciation and knowledge and all this. They use it all for themselves. It’s supposed to be used for the Lord. So it’s from there, not from here. But the point is, it’s only a medium. Therefore, if you only use the medium and don’t give the message, you can’t say the medium is the message. That’s stupid.
You understand?
That’s the point.
So I hope I didn’t offend anyone here by that last statement. Okay, yes.
You also said that he uses the same medium. We use the material energy to express our afflictions. No, no. I’m not talking about material energy here. I’m talking about philosophy, pious work, Vedic study, austerity. It means that done in connection with Krishna is yoga maya.
You know what I’m saying? So Krishna just works under yoga maya. But because we use it separately, it’s under Mahayana.
Right? Does that make sense? So even if we use it for the Lord, we’re still using the external energy. Right? But for Krishna, then he’s using internal energy. And the Tathastu Shakti, they can both be together at the same place at the same time, no problem. That’s why the Tathastu Shakti is manifest here. The spiritual world, then there’s no need.
Then there’s eminence. So we’re talking about all these cultural elements. That’s the medium of expression. Right? So the point is this. Varnasrama, whether it’s expressed through internal potency or external potency, the principles of Varnasrama are the same. They don’t change. You know what I’m saying? You know, a pot made out of a Chinmoy pot that Mother Yashoda uses does the same thing that the pot in the material world does. Right? Because the material world pot is a reflection of that pot, not the other way around. Right? But the point is, that’s made out of internal potency. Here it’s made out of external potency. Right? Then there’s the other point, is that whether it’s made out of internal and external, how you deal with it will define whether you get the response of internal potency or external potency. Right? Therefore, you could be dealing with external potency, but doing it for Krsna, so the response that it gives you is internal potency. You know, just like the demons, they go into the internal potency, but because they deal with it for their own purpose, they get the results of external potency.
Does that make sense? Right? So, the point is, that’s all Tathastu Sakti does all that. Right? Because the Svarupa Sakti is all three.
Right? So therefore, depending on the situation, she’ll manifest the internal potency, external, or both at once.
Does that make sense? So, it’s not a problem for her, it’s a problem for us, because we always say, well, there’s material, there’s spiritual. Yes, there is, but that material and spiritual is a manifestation of Svarupa Sakti.
So that’s where we get confused. Right? So the synthesis here, we can see, is going to be, is that what they’re saying is correct, and we agree with it fully, but the mistake they’re making is that the activity and the devotion are the same thing. They’re two separate things. But, by the Yoga Maya, they’re able to work together.
Right? Does that make sense?
Also, what kind, you said that for Krishna, if he approaches, and he personally accepts our service, Yes. What kind of form? What kind of form? Whatever is the form that you are manifesting as Visha, I mean, Asra. You know what I’m saying? So if it’s like, I do this, therefore he has to respond, then that’s karma.
Right? So then, what is the form that you do something and he reciprocates? What is the form of the Lord? It’s a universal form. So therefore, he reciprocates on that platform. But if you get all of that out of shape, that, you know, three-fold bending form Shama Sundara is not appearing, then, you know, then manifest some Vraja Bhakti. Then he’ll manifest that way. You know? So it’s like, it’s not his problem.
Does that make sense? Yes. In other words, we have to train ourselves that we can see all these multiple levels at once, but at the same time know for the discussion what is the primary element that we’re dealing with. You know what I’m saying?
Does that make sense? So it’s one thing if you’re dealing with the secondary element and it reminds you of Krishna as the primary. That’s okay. But when you’re dealing with the primary element and then you get distracted by the secondary, then that’s not as ideal. Right?
Does that make sense?
Okay.
Okay. So he’s, yeah, he’s in a bode, but he’s very near because his Paramatma is there. Same time he’s in his abode. He has Paramatma because that’s the mood we deal with him. We deal with him as Krishna. Then he manifests as Krishna. Right? You see in this song, the acarya, then is talking about the spiritual master. He says, Govinda Bhishram. Right? Krishna is resting in the heart. He didn’t say Paramatma. He’s saying Govinda. That’s because he’s always thinking of Govinda.
We’ll think of Krishna. Right? So we’re thinking of the form of Krishna, but our mood will not be that of Krishna. Right? Think of that. Why do you go to Mangalartik?
What’s the reason? It’s nice to face Krishna. It’s nice. To face Krishna. Okay. Anything else? To see Him. To see Him? To be seen by Him. To be seen by Him. What about some more reality here? Because we have to. Because we have to. Yes. You are the spiritual master. So in other words, there’s rules. That’s why we’re going. Right? And now we know that there are these higher levels, and so we go there because we’re supposed to. So then that’s good. That’s proper. But we also know is that there’s these higher principles. So by regularly going, then these higher principles will start to be manifest. You understand? But we’re going because we’re supposed to go. You know, it’s freezing cold like that. We’d rather be sleeping, but we’re supposed to go. Right? Does that make sense? So that means it is Vaidhi. Okay. Who’s the Lord of Vaidhi?
What form of the Lord? Narayan. Right? So therefore, we’re worshiping Lakshmi Narayan. The form is Radhan Krishna, but how we’re dealing with them is as Lakshmi Narayan. So they’re reciprocating as Lakshmi Narayan.
You understand? It’s not that, you know, they’re on four arms. No. But that’s how we’re dealing.
So just like we’re dealing, so therefore, it’s Supersoul.
You understand? So there he’s changed the form because, you know, why would you want Radhan Krishna, you know, in a not overly clean place? Right? You know, they’re in a very nice, high -class place. Right? You know, Vishnu can handle these things. You know, just like when you install the fire, you know, even though we worship Radhan Krishna, we don’t install Radhan Krishna in the fire. We install Lakshmi Narayan in the fire. You know, because Radhan Krishna’s too delicate to be in the fire. You know, you say, no, we’re Gaudias. Yeah, but why Gaudias don’t do that?
You know, it’s Lakshmi Narayan. They take the off. That means, because they’re non-different, you offer it to Krishna, but who’s in the fire is Lakshmi Narayan.
Does that make sense? But there’s no difference.
And Maharaj, if we, if we don’t see Krishna or Narayan as deity, if we see only, like, let’s say, if we just, like, like, Nice flower arrangement.
Yes, it’s been, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Right?
Like that. So that’s endeavor with intelligence.
We know this is the right thing. We’re inspired to act in that way.
Is that what you’re saying? Yes? Is it cold? Do you want to know if it’s cold? I heard it’s about two degrees. So here it’s around ten. Yes, it’s a bit colder. How often do they get affected by the cold? Okay, let’s look at it this way. Means putting all biases aside. What are nice things about when it’s cold? What can you do that’s nice? I love the cold because it’s more intimate. Yeah, okay. So, but you know, you can make fires, you can eat things that are hot, things that are more rich and all that. Yeah, everyone huddles closer together, you know, like this kind of a thing. You don’t necessarily go out so much, you stay more in, like that. So they’ll have that, but it won’t be severe like this. It’s not an inconvenience, you know what I’m saying? But it’s enough where you put on a cheddar, like that. But it’s not, you know, freezing cold, you know, like that. You know, just like in the summer it’s hot, so you can wear light clothes and take light foods and drinks and, you know, outside and swings and swimming and all those kind of things. So you have that variety. So it’s not comfortable to get up? Ah, no, no. It’s not that they’re, you know, like that.
Okay. 13.15. The Supersoul is the original source of all senses, yet he is without senses. He is unattached, although he is the maintainer of all living beings. He transcends the modes of nature and at the same time he is the master of all the modes of nature.
The Supreme Lord, although the source of all the senses of the living entities, doesn’t have material senses like they have. In other words, our senses are a reflection of his senses.
I’m just having a thought. So when we’re channing our realms, we should be channing with the mood and not channing our moods and regulations? No, it means the point is, is when all the rules and regulations are nice, the heart becomes purified, then the mood starts to develop. I mean, if you can directly apply that, great. But it doesn’t mean we don’t follow the rules, because Krishna made the rules. That’s the way he likes it. You know what I’m saying? The way he said, don’t be inattentive. It means, do you like sitting with someone who you’re talking to and they’re inattentive? No. So it’s all these rules are like that. Someone who’s very dear to you, then they’re speaking badly about that, right? Your own, you know, connection with them, you don’t, means like, let’s say that the child is complaining about his father to his grandfather. You know, that’s not going to, you know, he’s going to consider that the interaction with the person means you’re interacting with the person, but they kind of consider this interaction is not actually real. You know, it’s illusory, or by doing this I can get some material benefit. You know what I’m saying? Like that. Or, you know, you’re interacting, but you have attachments to other things that are not good in the relationship, and so that keeps coming up. So any of those, you would consider that a good relationship.
No. So that’s why those are the ten offenses, the holy name. You understand? It’s the same thing. He’s a person. So these things get in the way of interacting with the person. So the rules are there because that’s the proper situation, right? And then, but the mood is more important. But if we don’t have the mood, we start with the rules, because just that we’re starting with the rules means we have the intention to develop that mood, right? So therefore it’s progressive. You know, so they’ll think, oh, that’s just Vaidhi and all. Yeah, it’s just Vaidhi, but the point is this. The only person that would say it’s just Vaidhi is someone on the platform of Vaidhi. The person on the platform of Ragh wouldn’t say, oh, that’s just Vaidhi.
You know what I’m saying? Like that. That’s the point, you know, unless they’re new at it, you know, then you have Utsamayi. You know, it’s going to be, you’re new at Ragh, so therefore now you consider this is all, and so everything else is, you know, doesn’t match.
Actually, the individual souls have spiritual senses, but in conditioned life, they’re covered with the material elements, and therefore the sense activities are exhibited through matter, right? So in other words, the senses are there, so the sense, the mind, the intelligence, those are all spiritual, but they’re exhibited through the external nature, so therefore they take on that quality. The experience you get is like that, so therefore it’s much less. Does that make sense?
Yeah? Means if I’m looking at something, and I’m looking directly, you see one thing. If I’m looking through some dirty glass, then I see it another way, or I’m looking through yellow glass, everything’s yellow, you know, how do you say, rose-colored glasses, then everything looks in that way, right?
Does that make sense? So that’s the thing is the material energy covers, so we’re seeing it through, so we’re getting an inferior experience, but we’re thinking that that is us, that’s the real experience. In other words, being said, no, the spiritual experience is the real thing, but the spiritual experience only happens when you’re connecting it to the Lord.
The Supreme Lord’s senses are not so covered.
His senses are transcendental and are therefore called nirguna, right? So they’re nirguna because they have no material qualities to them, but the sense exists on the spiritual platform, but it’s not covered. Ours are covered, therefore we say material senses, right? Because you go by what’s the final thing that you’re dealing with.
Does that make sense?
Guna means the material modes, but his senses are without material covering. It should be understood that his senses are not exactly like ours. Although he is the source of all the sensory activities, he has his transcendental senses, which are uncontaminated.
Can you go up and just tell him to sit in a different corner to chant his mantras?
So Maharaj, in order to understand, for example, this purport, at one level we need to accept that everything is coming from the spiritual energy, even if the understanding is not fully there. No, it’s not. Everything’s coming from the svarupa-sakti. Here it’s a matter of the manifestation of the spiritual or material.
So we, as tatastha-sakti, we’re an expansion of the spiritual potency, the internal potency. Does that make sense? So therefore our nature is spiritual, but the svarupa-sakti is the whole thing, it’s the total energy.
I understand to some extent, but I’m just contemplating.
It seems that I need to have some faith.
Faith. Yeah, faith is important. In that presentation.
Yeah, no, it means that the acaryas are saying this, so we’d have to, because we work on the thing that everything’s material, and we see it, you know, if you can perceive it, this and that. But the point is the soul is a person, and they have their own intelligence, but it’s covered. It’s just like the person is covered with mud, right? So how do you deal with him? As, you know, a nice, clean person, and you interact normally? No, you have to deal with him because he’s covered with mud. So he has to get rid of the mud. But as you get rid of the mud, they come closer to the standard of that you can interact with them. So as all the mud’s gone, then now everything goes normally. Yes. Right?
So you need to take off the mud. Yes, you have to take off the mud. That’s the meaning. Change the dark, you’re wiping the mirror. You know, so it’s just a matter of how quickly, you know, you want to take off one grain of dust at a time, you know, or just take the cloth and just wipe the mirror, you know, so that’s the, you know, like that. So that’s why these examples are used. You know, that’s why iron and fire or the cloth, you know, it means cleaning the mirror, because the mirror means it’s already there. It’s just you can’t see it. It’s covered. Right? Iron and fire means it’s as good as, but it’s different. Right? The jiva is as good as in terms of potency, but they’re still different. But as far as practical application goes, it doesn’t matter.
You know, it’s like, you know, if somebody takes out a hot, you know, iron rod from the fire that’s got flames on it and starts, you know, poking it in your direction, you know, you don’t say, well, that’s just actually just an iron rod and all that, so it’s not actually fire. You know, that’s not the way you’re going to interact.
Right? You understand?
We say that about the iron rod that’s sitting, you know, on the side. That’s just iron. But the one in the fire, you deal with it, you know, you have to respect it as fire. And if you don’t, you have a problem.
It is said that the Supreme Lord has no legs like us, but he can travel throughout space because he has spiritual legs. In other words, the Lord is not impersonal. He has eyes, legs, hands, and everything else. And because we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, we also have these things. But his hands, legs, eyes, and senses are not contaminated by material nature. Right? Ours are. So that’s the difference. Right? It’s not that the … does that make sense? And, of course, the element his or he is unlimited, we’re not, so you add that into it. But the point is, the main point here is ours are covered, his are not. So that’s the main … so that’s why we say he doesn’t have, because he doesn’t have senses like we have. Our senses are covered by the material energy senses, so he doesn’t have that. He just has the original, pure senses. Right?
Like that. The Supreme Truth exists outside and inside of all living beings, the moving and the non -moving, because he is subtle. He is beyond the power of the material senses to see or to know.
Although far away, he is also near to all.
Although the Supreme Soul appears to be divided among all beings, he is never divided. He is situated as one. Although he’s the maintainer of every living entity, it is to be understood that he devours and develops all. Right? The Lord is situated in everyone’s heart as the Supersoul. Does this mean that he has become divided? No. Actually, he is one. The example is given of the sun. The sun at the meridian is situated in his place. But if one goes 5,000 miles in all directions, he asks, where is the sun? Everyone will say it is shining on his head. In the Vedic literature, this example is given to show that although he is undivided, he is situated as if divided. Also it is said in the Vedic literature that one Visnu is present everywhere by his omnipotence, just as the sun appears in so many places to so many persons. So it’s our perception that there’s so many, that there’s only one person. You know, so Kirudaksaya Visnu, it’s him. He’s the one person.
Okay, so he’s personal and impersonal at the same time. Then 39. Ordinary men without knowledge of the Supreme Godhead, Sri Krsna, worship many others who are but materially empowered beings in order to achieve quick success in their aspirations.
Men in this world desire success in fruitive activities, and therefore they worship the demigods. Quickly, of course, men get results from fruitive work in this world, right? Because you’re not putting that much in. In other words, if you’re saying that it’s so much better, that means, no, quick work gets quicker results. So that means the result of the getting must not be very special, right? Even if it’s elevation of the heavenly planets or being Lord Brahma, it’s still not very special, right? Because for the soul, even if you live for the lifetime of Brahma, still you’re going to die, and that doesn’t work out well for the jiva, you know? He still doesn’t consider that better. You notice that?
7.20-21.
Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto the demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures. I am in everyone’s heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some demigod, I make his face steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity. The demigods are actually different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord. Therefore, they have no independence. The Vedic literature has stated the Supreme Personality of Godhead is, as Supersoul, is also present within the heart of the demigod. Therefore, he arranges through the demigod to fulfill the desire of the living entity. But both the demigod and the living entity are dependent on the Supreme Will. They are not independent. So here’s again how he’s imminent. He’s pervading everything. He’s making everything work. So we are approaching the material energy, and then from that approaching the demigod. So interacting the material energy through the demigod, and then through the Supreme Lord. Like that. So you’re just adding another step that gets in the way. Like that. We can just interact with the Supreme Lord, right? Then we’re not interacting with the material nature. We’re not interacting with the authorities of the material nature.
Does that make sense? It just makes life simple. That’s why we say it’s direct. All these other things are indirect. You’re dealing with the Lord, but through the material energy. So that’s indirect. You don’t see it’s actually him. And we’re dealing then with that and through the demigod. So you’re adding in another step. So that’s why it becomes more complicated, more difficult. Yes? Why does Krishna say I make his face steady so that he can bow himself to that figure? Because otherwise one wouldn’t be able to. Faith comes from the Lord. Right? So you want to worship the demigod, so Krishna himself has to give faith. Just like the result that you’ll get from the demigod, Krishna has to give also. Right?
Well, you want it. Yeah. So therefore he’s giving it.
You know what I’m saying? That’s the point. That’s him. But the devotees don’t give it. Right? Krishna tells you, you know, do like this, this, this. You do it, nice. If you don’t do it, not nice. The devotee comes and says, you’re attached. You know what I’m saying? So there’s a difference. That’s the point. The devotee will do that, but Krishna won’t. Because that’s his position. Otherwise, then it would appear he’s biased.
Endowed with such a faith, he endeavors to worship a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality, these benefits are bestowed by me alone. So endowed with such faith, he endeavors to worship the demigod and attains his desires. So the faith came from Krishna. The method of worship of the demigod comes from Krishna. And the result gained from that comes from Krishna. So it’s all Krishna. Right? But in illusion, we think that it’s not. Right? So that’s the other point, is that these are all the different ways he’s eminent. Right? How he’s pervading everything, you know, as Brahman, as Paramatma. But we make the mistake and think he’s not.
Yeah. Yeah. So unless we can see him, then he’s not existing. No. He’s making everything work anyway.
For the living entity who desires to return to Godhead, material desires are impediments. A pure devotee of the Lord is therefore not awarded the material benefits desired by less intelligent living entities, who therefore prefer to worship demigods of this material world rather than engage in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord. Now, the pure devotees, they don’t want these things. So Krishna doesn’t give these things. So therefore, the less intelligent, they approach the demigods. Right? Because there’s the fear that Krishna won’t give it because it’s not good for you. Right? But the demigod, you know, that’s what he does.
You know, it’s like you can go down and get your license to drive a car. Whether it’s good for you or not, that’s another thing.
Right?
It means your parent may say, no, no, this is not good, or this or that. But the guy at the office, as long as you pass the test, then, you know, you’ve done the work, therefore you get the license.
So that’s the point. So that’s, therefore, you see, you know, they try to go around the same principle.
Does that make sense? But because you’re a minor, what they don’t understand is that you got it only because they sent it and your parent signed it. You know, that’s what you don’t know.
Yeah, means if it’s useful, he’ll give. If it’s not useful, he won’t give. Unless, you know, he might give because if you give, then that’ll increase the faith. You know, if it’s a matter of I give, the faith will be increased. And if he doesn’t give, it won’t be increased. But he wants to increase, then he may give. Right?
Yeah, but also, before that, is there has to be that kind of element, because therefore sometimes Krishna gives, sometimes he doesn’t. You know? So in other words, if it won’t be bad for you, he can give. If it will be, he won’t give. Right? Because the pure devotee generally is not asking for anything that would be bad.
Yeah, preaching or, you know, whatever. It means the association of devotees, worship of the deity. You know, it’ll be connected with direct activities.
So you want to know why the pizza went cold and wasn’t so good? Why didn’t you preserve that? There’s a few pieces missing. Why aren’t they reappearing?
Yeah?
No. In other words, what you’ve done in devotional service, that remains. That’s preserved. And then what you lack, then Krishna arranges.
Right? But you still have to accept it.
You know what I’m saying? Just like if I bring you food, you still have to eat it. You know what I’m saying?
Okay.
Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but my devotees ultimately reach my spiritual planet.
Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that the brahmanas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the ksatriyas are His arms, the vaisyas are His waist, the sudras are His legs, and all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, one knows that both the demigods and He Himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. His knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches. The devotee knows, so therefore he goes to Krishna. But the others only know what they consider as supreme or important, so that’s where they go.
Right? Yes, so you’re not quite sure where they’ll go, those who worship the, you know, the, you know, how you say, the band members of the metal band. You’re not quite sure what’s going to, where they’re going to end up.
Yeah, well that’s, I’m sorry, the whole package. Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me. Because you’re worshiping the demigod because of his potency, right? Indra because he has the power, you know, over rain. But that power over rain comes from Krishna. The rain itself is Krishna, the effect of rain. Why do you want rain? That’s Krishna. So they’re actually only worshiping Him. So whoever you’re worshiping, you’re only worshiping Krishna.
Right? You know, so all these people worshiping, you know, a demigod or some celebrity or something, you know, they’re only worshiping Krishna. It’s not that that person is Krishna. No, the potencies of why you’re worshiping them is Krishna. Right? The person is very beautiful or very famous or very powerful or very wealthy because of these reasons you’re worshiping. Right? But power, all those things are Krishna. So you’re actually worshiping Krishna, but because you don’t know it, you don’t get the benefit.
Right?
Those who are 23 to 24, those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me. O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way. I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. So even though they’re worshiping the demigods, to do that properly, you have to be very pious and have all kinds of facility, but eventually they’ll fall down from that because they don’t understand it’s the Supreme Lord. So they’re getting all these benefits and then just thinking themselves a controller and enjoyer. So they get more and more into that mood until, you know, their piety and everything drops. So they’ll just naturally go down. Yes? I wonder if I have interaction with that demigod and maybe that demigod would say, worship Krishna? Might, but might not. If your child is going, you know, you’re the best mom in the world and we love you so much and all that, are you going to, right in the middle of that mood go, well actually, you know, the mom-ness in me is actually Krishna’s potency. So what you really love is Krishna and not me. I’m just the medium through which this love has come. But I have a need to taste this, you know, experience of being on the mom -ness side of the, you know, experiencing mom -ness. And so therefore I have gotten the opportunity to be your mom. And so therefore, even though it’s Krishna’s potency of mom-ness that flows through me, that, you know, so I’m not actually the mom, you know, and just like you’re not actually the child, because the child-ness that I’m looking for is actually just flowing through you. And so in this way we’re just two jivas that are an illusion that we think we’re the body and I think I’m the mom and you think you’re the kid, but actually Krishna is the, you know, the most wonderful and, you know, most affectionate person and so we should just love him.
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, that’s right, yeah, yeah. But you know, you understand? Does that make sense? So that’s why the demigods don’t point it out. Because they’re neophytes also, right? In other words, the neophyte doesn’t necessarily notice that, you know what I’m saying? So, I mean, if push comes to shove and you have a philosophical and their position won’t be lessened by it, then they’ll, they can discuss that. You know, just like the demigods are there, and Narada Muni, I mean, there could be other points there, but the point was, you know, Narada Muni is the Gandharva, he’s sporting with 50 apsaras, right? You know, the other demigods are happy if they get one or two, right? You know, it’s rare you see any kind of pictures or carvings in that where one demigod’s with more than one apsara, right? So here he’s with 50, and it’s not just that happened to be his day, that was his 15 minutes, right? No, he’s always with 50 of them, he’s always keeping 50 of them busy, right? So amongst demigods, that would be something to be very jealous of. But they’re doing a Harinam, and then they’re complaining that he’s just singing and taking part, but only doing to impress the ladies, so then they consider this is wrong, so they curse him, right? Because they’re devotees. So they understand, you know, what is the higher principle in this and that. Does that make sense? So they’re devotees, so if it’s in that environment, then they might say, but if you’re worshipping them and all these things for their office, one, it’s their office, that’s what they do. Because in that area, yes, when it comes to rain, then Indra is supreme. But it doesn’t mean that he’s the supreme person, no, but as far as who turns the tap on and off, then that’s him.
Does that make sense?
See, ultimately, you have to get back to the point that it’s your decision, you make the decision, it will go well for you. If you sit around waiting, well, why don’t the demigods say something? Why doesn’t Krishna say something? Why do they give me all this stuff? Why do they allow me to go on in my illusion? Then it’ll be a problem, you know? I was just thinking, like, because you come to the spiritual master, but he doesn’t say, you know, I’m Krishna. He houses it all. Because that’s the spiritual platform. Yes. But you’re talking the material platform. The material platform means illusion. Yes. So it’s part of the greater illusions. Okay. You know what I’m saying? The guys backstage, you know, on the magic show, you know, aren’t kind of poking their head around the corner and letting everybody know what’s going on. You know, yeah, yeah, they’re not going to, you know, does that make sense? Does that make sense? You know, the guy’s in the box in the water, all chained up like that, there’s two nice-looking girls all there looking at this and that and all that, but it’s not that everyone’s freaking out and all that, and they go, he’s okay. No, they don’t do that, you know, they also add to the whole thing, and then when he pops out, then everybody’s like that. It’s all part of the show.
Are all the demigods aware of Krishna? If the demigods are aware, but generally speaking, their definition of their aware is if there’s any problem, they’ll think of Krishna. But if things are going great, they’re out on their picnic with all their apsaras, and it’s a great lunch, and the weather’s nice, and the birds are chirping, they may not, right? But Narada Muni, Lord Shiva, they’re not going to forget. So there’s a few, but there’s a few, the rest, there’s 33 million, right, so. Thank you. Okay, yes. It’s just a side point on the picnic. What did I, yeah, I was just going to say that. This guy’s going to ask about the picnic.
Because I thought they had the results of sacrifice, which is like some kind of subtle energy drops or something.
Energy drops, so you get a little thing of energy drops. Are they effervescent, you just throw them in, or are they effervescent, you drop them in water, and after they finish bubbling, you drink? I have no idea. That’s what I thought. I was thinking, you know, picnic, because what popped into my mind, I know it’s really bad, but, you know, chicken drumsticks.
The demigods aren’t really, the more persons in the mode of goodness aren’t really into chicken drumsticks. I was thinking, no, they’re probably vegetarians. Yeah, no, they’re definitely, not only that, they only eat things cooked in ghee. That was, that was, that was Urvasi’s, you know, point, that she’s going to get involved with Puru Ravas, and that was one of her demands, I won’t eat anything that’s not cooked in ghee. In other words, it’s cooked in oil, or it’s cooked without ghee, she’s not eating it. And the amazing thing is, she’s not worried about getting fat. Yes.
And the gods don’t like that, you know, mustard oil?
Um, that’s there. But it didn’t say without mustard oil. Oh, it means it has to, oh, he means, he’s got the solution. He says, cooked in ghee, and you add some mustard oil also.
The point is, it’s their people. They have their planet, and they have their house, and they have everything like that, and vehicles. It’s just, it’s a little better than what we have.
You know? Does that make sense? Even on this planet, you have people that are immensely wealthy, and their facilities and that are so great. You know, it’s just like, Versailles, that’s where one guy and his wife lived. A thousand-roomed house, that was just for him and his wife.
You know what I’m saying? And so, that’s here. So they’re, you know, it’s a little bit better than that. And the gold smells nice. And the gold smells nice, yeah.
Gold smells nice. Yeah. But, don’t get distracted.
Better you think it’s just some energy drops.
But what color are the energy drops? You want to know if they’re green or yellow, right? Okay. Maybe they’re gulab jamuns. Gulab jamuns. Energy gulabs. Energy gulabs. Yeah. Good work, good work.
Okay. Those who are devotees of other gods and worship them with faith actually worship only me instead of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way, because they’re not recognizing the Lord, right? And if you’re going to worship the Lord, why do you need to use the demigod? He’s not important in the process, right? So, neither you’re recognizing the Lord and neither is the demigod worship necessary in the process of worshiping the Lord, right? So, he’s the only enjoyer. He is the only thing. So, they don’t recognize, so how will they stay on that platform, whatever they’re on, right? Because their platform is there because of piety. Piety is supposed to be better activity, better knowledge. So, their activity and knowledge is not actually up to the standard, so it’s not actually better. So, they’ll fall down from that, right? But if you’re actually worshiping the Lord, you don’t fall down from that.
925. Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods, but those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors. Those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings. Okay, we answered our medals question. And those who worship me will live with me.
It’s very easy to understand through this important verse that if by simply worshiping the demigods one can achieve the heavenly planets, or by worshiping the pitas achieve the pita planet, or by practicing the black arts achieve the ghostly planets, why can’t the pure devotee not achieve the planet of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu?
Unfortunately, many people have no information of these sublime planets where Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu live. Because they do not know of them, they fall down. Even the impersonalists fall down from the brahmajyoti. The Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is therefore distributing sublime information to the entire human society to the effect that by simply chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra one can become perfect in this life and go back home, back to Godhead. So the point made is if you go to all these other planets, because that’s accepted by the materialists. You worship the demigods, you go there. You worship the forefathers, you go there. So therefore, why wouldn’t if you worship Kṛṣṇa you go to Kṛṣṇa’s place?
Yes. Exactly where do you go if you worship the ancestors? To Pitṛloka. Pitṛloka. That’s where the Pitrīs are. Pitrīs.
Pitrī means forefather. It’s Yamarāja’s planet. Okay. Like that. Okay. That’s it. Because in there you have the hellish regions and then you have his place. Okay. Right? So they hang out there. But there is a connection between there and the moon. Uh-huh. So there’s also, so it says the enjoyer of the moon. So it means they’re also the forefathers. Okay. Right.
So what exactly, how that connection works I don’t know, but that’s why for forefathers then when they’re making offerings, the pinda, the rice balls, they also, it’s considered pious to offer umbrellas and wooden sandals and things like that. Because then that way when they’re traveling between there to the moon then it makes it easy, right? There’s too much sun, you have an umbrella, you have shoes, all that kind of stuff. They have a variation of that in China. They cut the things out, like the umbrella, and the car, everything out of paper. And then they have like this, they offer it into the fire, you know, and it goes to the forefathers, you know? Yeah. So there’s kind of a personal variation.
This is a little confusing to me because I don’t understand how you can worship the ancestors because they went on to take a different birth somewhere. No, but the point is they, we’re not talking about the ancestors, specifically the hogs, dogs, camels, and asses. We’re talking about pious persons. So they go to, it’s considered a heavenly region, but it’s not on the level of Indra’s place.
You know what I’m saying? So in other words, but they’re still your forefathers. So like, we worship our, I mean, if we do, like I’ve heard of y’all doing Pinda or whatever, you know, where you’re departing, you know, you’re… Pinda. Yeah, but that, you just do that one time to free them from hell. That’s why it’s called Putra. Put means hell and tra means to liberate from. So that’s there. But doing the regular thing, devotees aren’t obligated, right?
Devotees aren’t obligated to do the yearly Pinda. Yeah. Right, but if one’s not a devotee, you are. So therefore, because the materialists don’t do, their forefathers won’t do so well, therefore that’s why they will also go to hell. So everybody falls down into hell. So whatever, like your, whatever your…
Point is, they’re the ones… Your future descendants, if they do remember you in fire sacrifices or whatever, then you get some highest credit, even though you’re in like a totally different body with a different family and doing different things. No matter what planet, this planet or that planet.
See, the forefathers is a particular situation to be in.
Well, we’re all going to end up being forefathers.
Means here, when he says Pitriloka, then basically you’re discussing somebody who’s pious, following the Vedic culture and doing everything properly, they attain to that position. It’s not enough to get themselves into a heavenly planet. They didn’t do an ashramedha yajna or something, right? But they go to Pitriloka, right? They go to the moon planet. So it’s a heavenly planet, but it’s not, it’s only 10,000 years. It’s not like these others that may be hundreds of thousands or millions of years, right? You know, the facility, you know, it’s good, but it’s, it’s, you know, it’s better than Beverly Hills, right? You know, but it’s, it’s not as good as like the 22 heavenly planets or Indra’s. Those are on the top of Mayur. These are, these are, so that’s, that’s the situation. You’re assuming that your ancestors did well enough to get there.
See, first take the, the principle of what we’re talking about, then apply it. Okay? So that’s when we say Pitriloka, we mean that place of the Petris, right? Means the Petris are, they stay with Yamaraja. Like when Narada Muni came to Yudhisthira and told him to do the Rajasuya sacrifice, because Pandu was there with Yamaraja, with the Petris. And so when Narada Muni visited Yamaraja, then Pandu came up to him and said, please tell Yudhisthira to do the Rajasuya sacrifice.
Why is that confusing?
Yes.
But it’s still Pandu who’s done that.
Yeah, yeah. It’s the same spirit soul. Spirit souls don’t change. Only the names have been changed, technically. Right?
Is that, does that make sense? Now, you do have the thing is now, someone who’s a materialist and they worship their forefathers, then the forefather, whatever he may be, that’s where you’ll end up. Right? You know, so if outside the village you make a little clay, you know, thing like this and put it out on the side and you go out there like that, then, then there basically you’re worshiping ghosts and spirits. So then you’re going to end up there. Or it’s like one African tribe, they, I think they consider their ancestors to, oh, I forget what it is, crocodiles or something like that. And so then they’ll become that.
You know what I’m saying? So the point is, is we’re talking here on its natural form, where someone is following the Vedic culture properly and all that, they go to Pitriloka. But the point is, is wherever they may be, if you worship them, you’ll go there. But that’s the idea. If you’ve done the pinda, then you free them from the hellish condition. That will put them there for some time. Right? But the normal person, they don’t do the pinda, then they’re worshiping the forefathers, then they’ll, they’ll have a problem.
Yeah, yeah. Like that. And if they don’t bother with the forefathers, then the forefathers, you know, you’ll attain the same hell for not having, you know, arranged for them properly, to save them from it. Because that’s the point. That’s your duty. They’ve created the family position that you’ve, you’ve appeared in. So you owe them a debt. Right? It means you have a father. It means you, you’re taking birth because you have a father. Right? And your father took birth because he has a father. Like that. So there’s three generations back. You know, so father, grandfather, great-grandfather, these are the pindas done for. And I mean, you know, the sraddhas done for. Because pindas should have been done before by the others. But for the devotees, this happens ultimately. But for the devotees, it’s, it’s, you don’t have to worry about it. You just serve Krishna. I do understand that. That being a Krishna devotee, you don’t have to worry. Yeah. But the point is, is that these are rules for as, because you surrendered to Krishna. So that’s why, that’s why when someone says, we don’t have to follow any rules, but they’re also not surrendering to Krishna, then they got a problem. Because the debt is owed to all these people. You know, it’s not that, oh, that’s the, the Indian concept. And in America, it doesn’t know. It’s, it’s, if you’re a human being, you have these five debts. Right? Once you, once you attach yourself to the opposite sex, you have a debt. You know, if you’re a celibate student, then you’re a fine. Not just a student, but a celibate one. Like that.
Does that make sense? Because as soon as you’re working in that, then you’re working within the whole system. So then you have to pay your debt to that system.
You know what I’m saying? Is that a sentence?
Okay.
Okay. Lesson forty. The presence of Godhead is perceived impersonally in the material world, but He is manifested in person in the spiritual world. Right? So now we’ve explained how He’s in the material world, and how by not seeing Him there, there’ll be a problem. Right? So now we’re just saying that presence of God is impersonally in the material, but He is in person in the spiritual world. So here we’re making a distinction that we’re saying Bhagavan is personal, and Brahman and Paramatma technically are not personal. Right? Means it’s Krishna. But you’re looking at the non-personal elements. Right? Does that make sense? He’s the controller. Means, in other words, He is everything. So that’s Brahman. And He’s the controller of everything. So that’s Paramatma.
Right? But as soon as you see, no, Paramatma’s Krishna, you’re dealing with Bhagavan. But if you only see Him, no, He’s just the controller of the universe, you’re not seeing the complete person. So that has the impersonal element to it. Right? Yes, mechanical. Like if I deal with the person, like say, you know, there’s somebody, you know, they, the business thing, they say, oh, hey, that guy over there, you know, he can get you this stuff. So you go over and start interacting, but you’re only interacting based on what you can get from him. He’ll feel it’s very mechanical. He’ll say, this is impersonal.
Does that make sense? Because you’re only dealing with that much. So Paramatma, therefore, He takes that position, that mood, because then you can deal with Him in that way, and it’s not a problem.
7.24. Unintelligent men who do not know Me perfectly think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.
Yes. I think it’s nice to know that ever so often in this part it’s said that small knowledge or unintelligent, or it’s like pointed out that all these lesser beings, it’s kind of nice. It happens like ever so often, doesn’t it? Yeah, yeah, no, Krishna says, because unintelligent means that they don’t know. So it’s been established that Krishna’s both personal and impersonal, right? So now we’ve gotten the reasons is that people don’t, the impersonal element, he’s there as Brahman, universal form, the demigods, all these different aspects, and we don’t see him. But he’s imminent. If you look at it carefully, you can understand, no, this is still the Supreme Lord, right? And so now then here we’re getting into, you know, this is further the reasons, right? So this is that he’s not seen, but he’s seen as a person in the spiritual world. So in other words, the personal is the spiritual world. The material world is the impersonal, right?
So also you understand small knowledge means not knowledge of the Supreme. If you know the unlimited, then your knowledge is unlimited. Then you know the material world. Though you know vast amounts of knowledge, it’s still small knowledge because it’s temporary. It’s dealing with the temporary. You know, so you can have somebody who has more small knowledge or someone who has less small knowledge, you know, or small, small knowledge and really small knowledge. Or he doesn’t even have much small knowledge, you know, or something, you know, right? Yeah.
The twentieth verse clearly states, kamais tais ter hrta-jnana prapadyante nya-devatah. Those who are blinded by lusty desires surrender unto the different demigods. It is accepted besides the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are demigods who have their different planets, and the Lord also has a planet. As stated in the twenty-third verse, devan deva yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam hapi. The worshipers of the demigods go to the different planets of the demigods, and those who are devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa go to the Kṛṣṇa-loka planet.
Although this is clearly stated, the foolish impersonalists still maintain that the Lord is formless and that His forms are impositions. From the study of the Gītā, it does not appear that the demigods and their abodes are impersonal.
Clearly, neither the demigods nor Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are impersonal. They are all persons. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He has His own planet, and the demigods have theirs. So they’re still going to say, No, but He’s impersonal. So here is making point. In the material world, He’s perceived as impersonal, but His personal manifestation is the spiritual world. So the karmīs, then they’re not seeing beyond the material world. So in any case, they’re going to see that in the form of the demigods.
And the jñānī, he’s also going to see the impersonal, because he doesn’t see the spiritual world. He only sees spirit. And so he may be able to appreciate the universal form, but he’ll only see spirit.
Does that make sense? So to get them used to the idea as a person, they try to get to the essence, and so therefore then the universal form is used for them.
And as it mentioned, we were studying yesterday, that the aspect of utilizing the impersonal elements to remove our material desire, impersonal meaning the universal form, paramaṭṭha, seeing their involvement in this way, connecting it to the Lord. So that’s why universal form is useful, because of that tendency in that direction. As you become purified, then the tendency is more in Kṛṣṇa as a person.
125. I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them, I am covered by my internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible. So then they will think that the form is something material, because the only thing they can perceive of with God is the impersonal, because as the person, he’s beyond. So they can’t perceive.
Why the impersonals cannot see the Supreme Personality of Godhead? In the prayers of Kuntī, in the Śrīmad -Bhāgavatam, 1.8 and 1.19, it is said that the Lord is covered by the curtain of Yogamāyā, and thus ordinary persons cannot understand Him. This Yogamāyā curtain is also confirmed in the Īśopaniṣad, Mantra Fifteen, in which the devotee prays, O my Lord, You are the maintainer of the entire universe, and devotional service to You is the highest religious principle.
Therefore I pray that You will also maintain me. Your transcendental form is covered by the Yogamāyā. The brahmajyoti is the covering of the internal potency. May You kindly remove this glowing effulgence that impedes my seeing Your sac-cid-ananda-vigraha.
Brahma-saṁhitā, 5.1. Your eternal form of bliss and knowledge.
Hmm.
Okay, so if one’s maintained, then that means one’s on the transcendental platform. So here one would expect that you’re dealing with the Lord, talking about all these different things, especially as it goes, that He’s not talking about maintain me, pay the mortgage, my insurance on the car, and stuff like that. One, if that’s necessary, that’s taken care of, but He means maintained means that we will be maintained on the transcendental platform, the spiritual platform.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, one could do that.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead in His transcendental form of bliss and knowledge is covered by the internal potency of the brahmajyoti, and the less intelligent personalists cannot see the Supreme on account of this. So even the brahmajyoti is still internal potency, because it’s just the qualities. So that’s why it’s not different from Him, because He and His energy are no different.
He doesn’t control the external energy, so the Brahman is all-pervading. So His qualities are all-pervading.
Does that make sense? So the internal potency is always glorifying the Lord. So the brahmajyoti is these glories. It’s just not manifest. That’s why it’s called impersonal. Because when we say impersonal, we simply mean the person is not manifest.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, you just have the atoms, but it’s not that you can’t make them, but still the potency is there. But it’s the Lord’s potency, so anything can be manifest, but depending upon your vision, that will be manifest one way or the other.
Yes, it means the Lord’s in the pillar if you see Him that way. If you don’t, then He’s not. It’s His potency, but He as a person is not going to be there, because Prahlādamā sees the person, He’s on the bottom-up platform. Therefore, His understanding, all-pervading, is all Kṛṣṇa. So then Nṛsiṁhadeva came from the pillar.
So the point is, we have a problem with the exclusive monism, that it’s just monism. But the point is, His effulgence is His glory. We’ve seen that in the previous verse, that He looks very nice with all that.
It’s like the standards, the Lord being independent, and you want to find Him, except He’s not there. 7.26. O Arjuna, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I know everything that has happened in the past, all that is happening in the present, and all things that are yet to come. I also know all living entities, but Me no one knows.
Here the question of personal and impersonal is clearly stated. If Kṛṣṇa, the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, were māyā, material, as the impersonalists consider Him to be, then, like the living entity, He would change His body and forget everything about His past life. Anyone with a material body cannot remember his past life, nor can he foretell his future life, nor can he predict the outcome of his present life. Therefore, he cannot know what is happening in past, present, future. Unless one is liberated from material contamination, he cannot know past, present, future. So these sages who know past, present, future means they’re liberated. So if Kṛṣṇa is saying He knows all this, that means He has to be on the liberated platform. That means He’s not of the modes of nature. He’s not of this world. You can’t say, well, He’s the personification of the mode of goodness or, you know, like that. No. He’s beyond.
7.27. O Skāyina Bhārata, O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, bewildered by dualities arisen from desire and hate.
Right? Because you like something, right? Because you’re the controller of the joy, so you want to be able to control, you want to be able to enjoy. So that’s the desire. What, what, if that doesn’t happen, whatever gets in the way of that is what you hate. Right? Quite simple.
The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate, the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and envies Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Right? So there’s that, that envy towards Kṛṣṇa and the desire to become. Pure devotees who are not deluded or contaminated by desire and hate can understand that Lord Kṛṣṇa appears as is by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune.
This is their misfortune. Such deluded personalities, such deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc., thinking, this is my wife, this is my house, I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this wife. These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and therefore cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So desire and hate, because of that you create the dualities. Then that’s, that’s going to manifest as material. But, but Kṛṣṇa, you know, appears by His internal potency. Therefore He has nothing to do with the material energy. He’s beyond.
7.28. Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, and those whose sinful actions are completely eradicated, free from the dualities of delusion, and they engage themselves in My service with determination.
Those eligible for elevation to the transcendental position are mentioned in this verse. For those who are sinful, atheistic, foolish and deceitful, it is very difficult to transcend the duality of desire and hate.
Only those who have passed their lives in practicing the regulative principles of religion, who have acted piously and who have conquered sinful reactions, can accept devotional service and gradually rise to the pure knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Then, gradually, they can meditate in trance on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process of being situated on the spiritual platform. This elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees. For in the association of great devotees, one can be delivered from delusion. So, one who has purified oneself, then he actually wants to know. So it’s not that the knowledge himself or the pious activities are creating it, but in such an environment, then the natural thing is you want to know. Because in the sinful environment, the sinful, the atheistic, foolish and deceitful, they’re not going to want to know. It’s only the pious who will want to know.
So then, wanting to know, then the Lord puts one in association of devotees.
So that’s the thing. Elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees. For in the association of great devotees, one can be delivered from delusion. So the point is this, one who wants that is put into this position. So that’s the topmost pious position, is being engaged in devotional service.
Yes? What is the meaning of to have conquered sinful reaction?
The ultimate point of conquered sinful reaction means conquering that which makes you forget Kṛṣṇa.
Does that make sense?
Piety means what’s connected to Kṛṣṇa. Impiety means what’s not connected to Kṛṣṇa. So anything that distracts you from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that’s impious. So one has conquered distractions.
In other words, the anarthas. Even if the anarthas are material piety, still on the spiritual platform, they’re an impiety. And piety means one’s performed devotional service. So you can take it here that this piety that they’re talking about is bhakti-sukṛti. They have performed bhakti-sukṛti. They’ve seen the devotees, heard the Harināma, seen Rādhā-yāgra, taken viśāda. So they’ve done these things, and so therefore then they’re able to come to that platform.
Yes? When they join the meditation in trance, is the Mahā-mantra still there? Yes, why not? Like that’s an external movement?
No, but you could say it’s in the mind. But the point is, is the name and Kṛṣṇa are non-different. So whether you’re meditating on the name or on the Lord’s inequalities, the Lord’s pastimes, His paraphernalia, the associates, the top, it doesn’t matter. That’s all, it’s all non-different.
That’s why you can think of the spiritual master, the time they’ll leave the body and go back to Dāna. Right? Because there’s non-difference. If you think of the Lord, His associate, then who would go to sleep? I just think, I think because it’s, you know, you meditate in trance, I was just thinking maybe they go more internal than you would… But it doesn’t mean on that internal platform you can’t chant. Yes. You know, you can’t chant in the mind, you know, like that. But the point is, is the name and Kṛṣṇa are non-different, so therefore one is chanting by thinking of Kṛṣṇa. And by chanting, you know, one is… In other words, thinking of Kṛṣṇa is chanting, and chanting is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, so they’re non-different. You know, that was the Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s definition. You know what I’m saying? So, on beads, 16 rounds minimum is chanted, but there should be 48 rounds, either on beads or in service, to make a total of 64 rounds.
How long does it take you to chant 16 rounds? Depends. Try it next to masturbation. Oh, Garbhupāda, if that goes up, you could probably get another one. Depends how long, how long does it take you to chant 16 rounds. Multiply that times four.
Basically, then you get it.
Now, so this is anything. So, we see here is any of these things get in the way. This is my wife, this is my house, I’m the master of this house, I’m the husband of this wife. Any of these kind of things. That doesn’t mean the duties are given up. You know, this is the house that’s given as your quota, but it’s not your house, it’s Kṛṣṇa’s house. Right? This is the wife that’s given as quota. This is not your wife, it’s Kṛṣṇa’s wife. Right in the wedding ceremony, the first mantra that’s said is, This bride belongs to Viṣṇu. I don’t know if anybody’s ever noticed, but generally, that’s the first mantra that’s said. Right? Like that.
Persons who have acted piously in previous lives. Oh, we just read that.
Okay.
So, by increasing piety means devotional activities in the association of devotees, and by decreasing impiety, by removing the anarthas that are distracting one on the material platform, whether they’re karma or jñāna, whether they’re materially pious or impious. Right? Then we come to the point of being able to be situated on the spiritual platform. Right? So when those are removed, then we come to situated, so we can take that first step being niṣṭa. So we’re situated because anarthas are removed. Right? Then when that comes to it further, when they’re fully… How do you say it? Yeah, it means all the material conditioning is removed. We’re on the platform of liberation. Right? Brahma-bhūta. So then again, we’re situated on the spiritual platform. Right? But then anything that gets in the way of our love for Kṛṣṇa, and the other kinds of… When one comes to the platform of prema, then one is situated on the actual spiritual platform. Does that make sense? So the whole point is that we’re increasing devotional piety and decreasing material… I mean… How do you say it? Yes, spiritual impiety, which means material.
Does that make sense?
Here it is mentioned that only those who have passed their life by practicing the great principles of Buddhism. Yes. So this also indicates that it takes some practice and time.
Yeah, it does. It’s not… I mean, it can be instant, but the point is that Kṛṣṇa’s already made that point, so that doesn’t take much more than, you know, Kṛṣṇa’s really nice or beautiful or attractive. Then that’s done. The process is over. Right? But otherwise, if one goes through the process, then in that, that means then there’s regular principles of religion. So that means the regular principles of both the… How do you say? The devotional process, which means the science of devotion. Right? Because that’s the regular principles, so it’s the giving and nectar of devotion. Or also the form of religion means the social and, you know, spiritual customs of the great sages, what they would practice, to be able to engage themselves in that devotional religion. So in other words, sanātana-dharma is the dharma being spoken of. And then any other elements of dharma, those are all in support of. Right?
What is it?
Okay, lesson forty-one. So now, what is that?
Okay, so the example.
In the material world, the Lord is present impersonally as described in Bhagavad-gītā.
Okay, this is a big section now, right?
Okay, so that means the end ones will be very quick.
Okay, so four-nineteen.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, Yes, I will tell you of my splendorous manifestations, but only of those which are prominent, O Arjuna, for my opulence is limitless. Only what’s prominent. You know, because, in other words, these ones are ones everybody can relate to. And other ones you may not, you know what I’m saying, be able to appreciate.
Okay.
So, also, it’s interesting to note that so many of these verses and purports have been used, you know, some of these have been used at least two if not three times, like that, because they’re bringing out these points from these different angles. So you can see these points are very important. You know, how someone gets distracted by worship of the demigods, or by the personal, or thinking the material is spiritual, or that, you know, spiritual can’t, you know, I say, function in the material manifestation, all these different things. You know, so again and again from so many different angles. It is not possible to comprehend the greatness of Krishna and his opulences.
The senses of the individual soul are limited and do not permit him to understand the totality of Krishna’s affairs. Like, one is, you’re covered with material, so you can’t perceive spiritual. Right? You know what I’m saying? It’s just a lot of work. It’s just… Does that make sense? If I take the thermometer and cover it with something, you can’t perceive temperature anymore. You know what I’m saying? You forget to take the cap off the camera. Yeah, don’t take the cap off the camera. Yeah, like that. Yeah, still have to… Somebody at their wedding handed me a camera and said, take pictures. Right? So I took pictures. All kinds of nice pictures and all that. They didn’t take the cap off the camera. So… There are no pictures. And still to this day, I’m hearing about it. Especially when they’re talking about anybody else’s wedding and their pictures. And it would be… But if someone had taken the cap off the camera, then I would… Yeah, so… Like that. You know, because the problem, just in my own defense, not that the… is, the cameras my father worked with, because they were up to that point were the only cameras I ever knew about, were ones that were the kind when you look through the thing, it looked directly through the lens. So if you get the cap on, you couldn’t see. So I took it for granted that if you could see, the cap’s off. I didn’t realize it was some cheapo camera that, you know, you could just directly see out. I didn’t realize it wasn’t, you know, the proper standard. You know, like that. In other words, I wasn’t up to date on modern advancement of the availability. Yeah, because before it was photography, it was something just for enthusiasts. It wasn’t just something that anybody just got a camera and just took pictures. Like that. So… Like that. In my defense. But still, the point is, is there are no pictures and, you know, it’s our fault. Oh, it’s a topic of conversation. Yes, yes.
As far as every accident is covered by some fault. Yes. Every work is covered by some fault. Yes, yes, yes. So this way then. Okay. So that’s the point, is that the senses are covered so one can’t understand them. One understands Kṛṣṇa. That’s the one thing. And He’s unlimited, so with limited you can’t understand. Even if our senses aren’t covered, they’re still limited.
Right? But by Kṛṣṇa’s grace, the uncovered soul can appreciate Kṛṣṇa, because you’re not worried about the unlimited. You’re only worried about Him as a person. Right? Because Him as the unlimited, that’s the impersonal aspect. So devotees aren’t interested in that. They’re only interested in the person. Right?
Yes. Still the devotees… Yes. The senses of the individual soul are limited, do not permit him to understand the totality of Kṛṣṇa’s affairs. Still the devotees try to understand Kṛṣṇa, but not on the principle that they will be able to understand Kṛṣṇa fully at any specific time or at any state of life. Rather… Right? So fully means you’ll understand this, you’ll understand that, and you know, you know, like this. But it’s not you’ll understand everything at once. But they’re not trying to. The point is, is God’s unlimited. So there’s unlimited aspects. So you can be tasting any one of them or combination at any time. So it’s not necessary you have to taste them all at once. You know, like that. That doesn’t work out so good. Right?
Rather, the very topics of Kṛṣṇa are so relishable that they appear to the devotees as nectar. Right? Thus the devotees enjoy them. So they’re nectar. So whatever it is, it doesn’t matter. You know, it’s just like you bite this side of the mango and it tastes nice. You bite that side and it also tastes nice. Not that you have to bite the whole thing at once and taste the whole thing at one… You know, no. It’s not like that.
In discussing Kṛṣṇa’s opulences and His diverse energies, the pure devotees take transcendental pleasure. Therefore, they want to hear and discuss them. Kṛṣṇa knows that living entities do not understand the extent of His opulences. He therefore agrees to state only the principal manifestations of His different energies.
Yeah, so He knows that they don’t understand the extent, so it doesn’t matter. Right? It’s just like the small child doesn’t… You know, if the three-year-old asks, you know, daddy what he does, you know, as work, you know. He goes to work. Oh, what do you do? Does he explain all fine details and this and that? He doesn’t have to know. He just says, oh, you know, he does this. So major things. You know? Does that make sense? So it’s just understood. And there’s not a problem. The kid’s happy and the parent’s happy. So it’s not that, no, only if it’s only that pure. Because then we take knowledge as the ultimate. So that’s then, you know, still a covering of… Yeah. No, it’s the personal that’s important.
So that depends on the mood? Depends on which aspect. Yeah, yeah. Depends on the mood. But it is also… Means, of course, there’s the conditioned mood. So we’re going to have elements that may be more attractive or not. Because Krishna is everything. There’s always something to be attracted to. But, you know, then on the spiritual platform, whatever one’s nature, then one will have that natural attraction. You know what I’m saying? So it does come down to whatever your mood is. That’s why the devotee is the ashram. Because Krishna is everything. So whatever’s your mood, then that’s what he interacts on. Because someone will say, this is my world. You know, that doesn’t mean it is the world. It just means what you consider, you know, where you live and where you do your work and what places you go and your few friends and what little things that you do. You know? And that’s part of your world. Like that. The rest of it, you don’t care about. You know what I’m saying? You’re not worried that, you know, in the Arctic Circle, just above, you know, Alaska, that there’s this one place. If you go there, then, you know, the, what do you call it? The, what do you call it? The sea… What do you call it? Those whales?
No, no, no. The sea otters. Is it? Yeah, the sea otters are, you know, really nice. You know, you just don’t care. But the Eskimos, you know, around the Arctic Circle, they’re going to be talking about, yeah, on that side, you know, they’re even better than on this side. You know? Like that. You know, so that, so that’s their world. You know? So we have our world, and we don’t care about it. Does that make sense?
You know? So that’s the point, is that it’s, it’s not that knowing everything, it’s knowing how much you need to function in your world is what’s required. So for you as a devotee to function, you know, that’s all that’s necessary. Right? So if there’s more intellectual conditioning, then you will involve yourself more. If there’s less, you’ll involve yourself less. The point is this, you’re involved. Up to the, so the completeness of whatever’s the body, the mind, and the words is engaged in the Lord’s service. Right? The principle remains, whether it’s within the material phenomena or whether it’s in the spiritual world. It’s still the same. Is that, is that okay?
Huh. Okay. So then we’ll continue after the break.
