Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #74

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #74

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Sadhguru chants Saha na bhavatu Saha na bhunaktu Sahabhir yankara bhavahai Tejasvi na vadhe tamasthu ma vidvi shavahai Om shanti shanti shanti Om jaya Sri Krishna, Caitanya, Prabhu, Nityananda Sri Advaita Gauravara, Srivasari Gauravarta Vrnda Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare So, verses 1 to 6, faith and worship according to the mode, page 13. Chapter 16, established that those who follow the Vedas with faith are divine, and those who do not follow the Vedas are demoniac. According to Srila Baladeva Gyabhusana, in the beginning of Chapter 17, Arjuna asked a question.

Those who study the Vedas and, with faith in the scriptures, undertake activities according to its rules, are called devatas. So studying the Vedas, academics, they study the Vedas, but they don’t have faith, so it doesn’t make it divine.

Those who ignore the Vedas and act as they please, without following the Vedic rules, are called demons, or asuras. You have said this in the previous chapter. Now this is my question. In what position are those who, having read and understood the Vedas, which are difficult to understand, give up the rules out of laziness or other reasons, and worship the devatas or other beings with faith generated through popular usage?

So they read, they understand, but they’re distracted by something else. They’re distracted. Either they don’t follow because they’re lazy, or they’re distracted by some other aspect of the material energy. What’s their position?

And it also mentions here popular usage. That would mean that what the common person is doing, that you would consider that okay. Remember last chapter, it was defined that the demoniac, then, even though they’re not qualified, they all get together in a group and all say each other is really great. So in this way, then, they create positions for themselves out of nothing.

So if one is following that popular usage, in other words, one has read the Vedas, understood the Vedas, but one is whimsically not acting according to the Vedas, for whatever reason. So you have that combination of both. One who studies the Vedas, follows the Vedas, that’s divine. One who ignores the Vedas, acts whimsically, that’s demoniac. What about someone who reads the Vedas, understands them, but acts whimsically?

And I would take it here, understood would mean that they know the purpose. It’s to serve Krishna and devotional service and that. Because, you know, we’re dealing with the Acharyas. They’re not using the term meaning that you, you know, by having a good vocabulary, you understood the words, like that. Because the point is, is the demons follow the Vedas, but not for the purpose that the Vedas are intended. They simply follow the Vedas to increase and develop the sense gratification. That’s not the purpose of the Vedas at all. The Vedas to take one away from material absorption. So in other words, we have to be able to see fine things here, be able to use fine discretion. Because if we work always on the principle of semantics of a word, and then our issues or understandings on that word, then we won’t get very far. The idea of this is vichara. We’re studying the same thing now from so many angles. This is seventeenth chapter. So this is the fifth angle. I’m looking at this.

So one is trying to broaden the understanding is that the term may have its popular usage, but then there’s the intent, intention of the Veda. Because we all always have to see it through popular faith generated through popular usage.

So many devotees will say, you know, wonderful qualities and platitudes and ideas that are generated in them through faith in the popular. It’s not coming from the Veda. It’s Vox Populi.

Yes, that’s definitely, definitely.

But I’m saying it’s their own conviction is generated from popular usage, not from the Veda. So this is what Arjuna is talking about. They understand the Veda, but in their life they apply, you know, what’s going on in the contemporary environment that’s not based on the Veda. Yes. So they’re not necessarily against the purpose of the Veda? No, they’re not. Just like any devotee is not against that Krishna is God and we’re His servant. And so that’s actually understanding the Veda. If you understand acit-anisuara, so they know this is the material world. No one’s an illusion about that. They know I’m the soul. I’m not the body. They know Krishna is the supreme. I am His servant. By devotional service only, I’ll go back to Godhead. So, and the process is chanting. So these things they understand very clearly. So no devotee is an illusion on the fundamentals of the philosophy, right? And they, you know, to whatever degree of their realization, they apply it in their life. So their understanding is solid. But the difficulty is, is they are distracted in some areas and they follow those areas according to popular usage. That’s what Krishna, Arjuna is talking about. You know what I’m saying? You know, you have to do this or that. All the issues that devotees have are coming into this category.

It’s no is in another category. There’s divine and there’s demoniac. You know, but, you know, I’ve heard devotees say, well, you know, we’re, we’re, you know, you know, we’re not the traditional, you know, we’re Westerners, but at the same time we’re devotees. So this and so, we’re something unique. You know, you know, we’re not Westerners. We’re not the Vedic. We have our own category. Yeah, this is the category Arjuna’s talking about.

You have faith, you understand the Vedas, but your faith is generated from popular usage.

Does that make sense? So, so when devotees are worried about different issues, this is what it’s about. So we may say, okay, well, what’s that? No, this is more prominent in our lives. You know, there are, you know, definitely are there that study the Vedas, have faith and run their life like that. But generally you can kind of like count those people on your fingers, right? You don’t even need your toes for that, right? And then, you know, demoniac, you know, generally you won’t see that around the devotees. You know, they don’t follow Vedas, no faith in the Vedas system now, you know, because they’ll go out, you’d be much better with the karmas, right? So there’s tons of those, but this is a common thing. So that doesn’t mean that that’s their, their position of determination. That’s when it becomes a problem. No, this is just by habit, because popular usage means they’re coming from that environment of popular usage. So by habit, they’re just acting according to their conditioning, but their understanding of the Vedas, somebody says. So that’s anarta. Anarta means is that which is unwanted. So it’s just a matter of time by chanting, by associating, by doing their service, then these will slowly, slowly, gradually go away. So that’s not a problem. Problem is, where we’ll call it a serious problem, is where they profess that their faith generated from popular usage is actually okay. In fact, it’s probably even a better standard. This, we have to understand, that’s a problem. Because as we said, it’s divine or demoniac. Demoniac is just there, but that’s not the focus.

You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So like a kid, the kid’s not very well trained, not very well developed, you know, very sophisticated, but they try to do something nice. Everybody will appreciate what they’ve done nice, unless, oh, this is a nice kid. Because they’ve made that endeavor, because their focus is on doing the right thing. Though, you know, you can watch them the rest of the day, they’re just insane. But that’s not the focus. And if you ask the kid, okay, what did you do today? They’ll talk about that good thing. You understand? So in that case, you’re not worrying about these distractions.

Because the focus is on the progressive.

But when the focus is on the distractions, and due to false ego, remember, it’s the Tibetan quality, pride is what comes up.

So when pride is there, that my faith in popular usage is good, in fact, everybody should do it. That’s demoniac. Doesn’t mean they’re a demon. It just means that the demoniac qualities, which is why we’re in the material world, are becoming a bit overwhelming for them, because they’re focusing on them. So one should avoid that. Does that make sense? So the difference between understanding I have attachments and working in a progressive way to step -by-step get rid of them, or due to false ego saying, no, my attachments are fine, in fact, everybody’s doing them, and why you’re not doing them? You know, it’s artificial. No, it’s artificial that there’s souls in the material world. That’s artificial. And then more artificial is trying to say that being here is normal.

You know what I’m saying? The guy’s standing in the well, and you come and say, hey, what’s happening? Why are you in the well? What do you mean? What’s wrong with me being in the well? Why you’re out there? It’s normal. Everybody’s in the well. And you look and go, you and who else? You know?

Does that make sense? So that’s the word. This is Arjuna’s question. So it’s very relevant. Right? We’ll say, okay, well, that’s there, but, you know, the divine, the demoniac. No, no. Our problem is not the divine and demoniac. Our problem is this in between.

Like that. Therefore, it comes up, and so we have a whole chapter dedicated to this. Right?

What is their position amongst the godly and demoniac types previously described? If they ignore scriptures but have faith and worship.

Right? So devotees have faith, they do the worship, but they ignore scriptures.

You know? It’s always, oh, that’s fanatic. You know, where did this come from? It’s such an easy thing. Just because you said it’s fanatic, it’s the magic word, that now nobody will notice or question you’re not following the rule.

They have taken shelter of Sattva, or of Rajas and Tamas. The word ho is placed in the middle to indicate the two choices. Right? So is it Sattva, or is it Rajas and Tamas? Right? So those two have been placed together. Right? As we discussed before, we always have to be aware that you can have two choices, though there’s three things within it, or four things like this. You know? In other words, Arjuna’s question is about those whose position is between the two extremes, the demigods and the demons. They are faithful worshippers, which connect them with the demigods, but at the same time they give up Vedic injunctions whimsically, which makes them similar to the demons, because it’s whimsical. It’s not based on a logic. It’s based on a feeling. Oh, I was in that, and this went wrong, so we don’t do that. That’s a feeling.

Because why did it go wrong? Are you sure it was that? Maybe it was something else. Maybe it was Tuesday. You know? Does that make sense? So it’s just… Śrīla Prabhupāda explains in his purport, the verse one, in the fourth chapter, thirty-ninth verse, it is said that a person faithful to a particular type of worship gradually becomes elevated to the stage of knowledge and attains the highest perfectional stage of peace and prosperity.

In the sixteenth chapter, it is concluded that one who does not follow the principles laid down in the scriptures is called an asura, demon, and one who follows the scriptural injunctions faithfully is called a deva or demigod. Now, if one with faith follows some rules which are not mentioned in the scriptural injunctions, what is his position? This doubt of Arjuna’s is to be cleared by Kṛṣṇa. Are those who create some sort of god by selecting a human being and placing their faith in him, worshiping in goodness, passion, or ignorance? Do such persons attain the perfectional stage of life? Is it possible for them to be situated in real knowledge and elevate themselves to the highest perfectional stage? Do those who do not follow the rules and regulations of the scripture but have faith in something and worship gods and demigods and men attain success in their effort? Arjuna is putting these questions to Kṛṣṇa.

Arjuna inquires about those who do not follow the scriptures but worship according to their own imagination. In answer, Kṛṣṇa describes the divisions of faith.

According to the modes of nature, there are three kinds of faith. So, in other words, there’s always the extreme, which makes it very easy. Then there’s a reality of what you’re dealing with. You know what I’m saying? You know, they’re always talking about, you know, every movie, you’ve got the wealthy people, you’ve got the good-looking people, you’ve got the powerful and influential people and all that, right? And so that’s always the themes, right? Walk down the street in any city of the world, how many of those people do you ever see? You can walk around all day and never see one.

You understand? So that’s the point, is that there’s the extremes, and then there’s what’s going on in your life.

So we have to be able to be able to, I mean, we have to be able to see that. So the extreme is, okay, they worship some man. So we have our idea of what that means.

You understand? But what does it mean when devotees are sitting around and talking about some karmic self -help guy, right? And how great that is and how practical this is and this is really good. They have faith in this guy. Where did he get it from? That they’ll make no connection. So it means if you don’t make a connection, how is it even some kind of parampara? Where did he get it from? Cracker Jack’s box, lottery, you know, bought it on eBay, maybe, you know.

You understand? So devotees are always doing this in different ways. So it’s not so extreme. It’s just a little bit. But remember, Prabhupada said, if you’re attached to even one rasgulla, you’ll take birth again to come back to eat that rasgulla.

You understand what I’m saying? So this is what we’re dealing with. So it has to be Krishna. And Krishna says, Krishna alone, not Krishna and. Like that. It’s Krishna.

You know, so we’re trying to get our life to that point of extremity. Because now we’re not. Right? Does that make sense?

Yeah, because like the example said, if you’re going a very long distance, even if you’re off in your path by even the slightest degree, after a long distance, it’s very big. I mean, what’s the distance between here and Goloka? You know, what happens if you’re off by, you know, one, you know, nano, you know, millimeter, you know, like that, by the time you get there, you know, you’re still out in the Vermont somewhere.

You understand? So the point is, is that it’s because you’re dealing with the relationship. And if that relationship, Krishna is wanting to fully commit or he is fully committed, but he wants to interact on a fully committed platform. So if we’re not fully committed, how we’ll interact, what will be the basis of the relationship?

You know what I’m saying? Nobody appreciates a relationship where you’re committed than the other person. Right? And we’re definitely, you know, not, you know, over the moon about, you know, we’re not as committed as Krishna is. So there’s all this pressure, you know, all these rules, all these things to do, all this Krishna consciousness, you know. Does that make sense? Yes. So, like in China, you know, we have a guru, you know, he emphasized that devotees should give up all, you know, Chinese culture, you know, to get pure Krishna consciousness. You know, he always, you know, criticized Chinese culture and, you know, emphasized on this side. But the thing is, is if you’re criticizing culture, but is there a standard culture?

You know what I’m saying? There’s a quality. OK, in this case, we’re taking the word culture. How is it there? Is culture something created in the Middle Kingdom?

They created the concept or the concept of culture is already there.

Right. And China has their culture. Europe has their culture, you know, like this. Right. So there is a principle of culture. So it’s all right to find some weakness in a particularly applied culture as long as you bring it back to the original.

You know what I’m saying?

Does that make sense? So that’s not a problem if you replace one with the other. So it’s just like this. Is that in China that the children respect their parents? Is that a problem? OK, why not?

It’s tradition, but still, I mean, the tradition also is that. How do you say one eats anything in the air except the plane, anything on the land, except the bicycle and anything in the water except the boat. That’s also tradition. Is that OK?

You understand? So it’s not that it’s tradition. The point is, is that it’s it’s it’s in line with the Vedic literature. You know, I’m saying it says that when a king goes into and takes over a kingdom, another kingdom, then anything that’s not in opposition to the Vedic conclusion, he authorizes. You know what I’m saying? Means they may have their unique way of obtaining it. You know, I’m saying like in India, they go and they touch the feet of their parents. Maybe in China they go and do a somersault or something, you know, and that’s considered, you know, I would say some planets that are made of sand and they spit, you know, like that. You know, I’m saying they have their concept of what is.

Respect, but the point is, respect has to be obtained.

That’s the actual culture. You understand? Does that make sense? So it’s not the Chinese culture. It’s those things that aren’t. And one is seeing everything in relationship with the original culture and Krishna consciousness. And those externals that aren’t matching make adjustment there.

Does that make sense? That that’s the point.

There’s flavor, yes, but the point is, is that’s what you’re working with. Everything has a flavor. So the point is, is, yes, ultimately of the principle, Krishna has the flavor he likes. So you’re trying to bring the flavor you like in line with the flavor he likes.

But in the beginning, we may be inspired because the flavor we like is what we want to deal in. So we take that flavor and offer it to Krishna. So that’s that is, you know, karma yoga, gana yoga. But with time, then we and that may even be done in a very detached way. We’re not attached to the results, but we like working in that field. But pure devotional service means we want to please Krishna. And then we we do that through whatever is available. In other words, so we want to express culture for Krishna. But, you know, if the only culture available is Chinese, then that’s what you use. But the difference is how you approach it. So as soon as you can do something else, you would.

You know, I’m saying, for example, if we want to build a temple for Krishna, we might like to build a temple in a Chinese style. If that’s what will work, that’s what you do.

You know, but if you could if you could build something, you know, in the Indian tradition, why not? But if it would work better there, people wouldn’t know what you built, you know. But if you built it looking like a Buddhist monastery and then people will go, oh, this, you know, to them, this is that this is a temple. Yeah. And so then if it looks like that, great. But when they go in, then you have somebody other than Buddhists.

This is the Adi Buddha.

Yes. Is it possible in Kali Yuga to follow all rules?

What’s the importance of following all rules?

Why is it important to follow all of them? To not to be a demon.

Demon means it’s whimsical.

Can you tell the difference between following a rule and whimsical?

Whimsical means you could follow, but you don’t.

Following the rule because it’s available, you do. You want to follow the rule, but it’s not available, so you don’t.

You know what I’m saying?

Spiritual master, yes, spiritual master through the Param Purana has given us rules.

You understand? You do your best.

So many rules. What is this so many rules? What is this so many rules? For example, Hari Bhaktivelasa has so many rules. Hari Bhaktivelasa, as if you’re supposed to be reading it.

You’re supposed to be reading Hari Bhaktivelasa. I know some examples, some rules. Are you supposed to be reading Hari Bhaktivelasa? Just like this. Is an eight year old supposed to be reading a girl magazine?

Yes or no?

Okay, then you won’t understand the answer anyway. Point is, do you know Pancharatra? Yes? Then you read Hari Bhaktivelasa. If you don’t know Pancharatra, why are you reading Hari Bhaktivelasa? Just like this. Let’s say we have a book on mechanics for taking care of a car. You don’t know anything about it. You look at the book. Oh, so many rules. But to a mechanic, that’s just normal.

So if you’re not a mechanic, don’t read the book. So if you’re not someone who can relate to the puja, don’t read Hari Bhaktivelasa.

It’s nice that he is speaking on behalf of the community, but one should keep one’s opinions to oneself.

Hari Bhaktivelasa is written by Sanatana Goswami to be used by the Gaudiya Vaishnavas. The point is, you have to understand deity worship and its functions to actually be able to understand Hari Bhaktivelasa.

For example… Forbidden to eat cats. Yeah, I would support that. You have a problem with eating cats.

Like that. In his place, they have a problem with eating dogs. It’s a real issue.

You understand?

What’s wrong with eating cats?

I don’t know. That’s what I heard.

Eating carrot. What’s the problem that it says about eating carrots? You read, but you don’t know, so why are you talking? You know what I’m saying? This is what we talked about before. If you go into something, and why read the Hari Bhaktivelasa? Because then you can find so many things to be confused about. And if we’re confused, then we can get that taste of not knowing, what am I supposed to do? Because it’s all about us. And so, you know, this product here, Sanatana Goswami, and what am I supposed to do? So what will I do? I will whimsically do whatever I want, because now I have authority, because you can’t do all these things. That’s the basis. That’s what I’m saying. This is the disease. And at the same time, we’re looking for, why are we reading, oh, maybe some mystical thing there, there’s some little mantra, or some little curvature, or some way to pick my nose, that I’ll just suddenly become God conscious, and I don’t have to go through all that stuff of getting up in the morning, taking bath, going to Mangalati, chanting around, some mystic thing will make it happen.

You understand? This is a disease.

Don’t worry. It’s shared by about 250 million people.

You know what I’m saying?

So, this is a problem.

So, carrot, what’s the problem with carrot? You said don’t eat carrot. Why not? That you don’t know. So then why bother with it? That’s why you are not supposed to read so many books.

Right? Have you ever read the 11th Canto? Do you understand Uddhava Gita?

You know, read that. Why are you reading Hari Bhaktivalam? Carrots, the problem with carrots is, is they have certain chemicals within them, that if you take them in regular quantities, then they’re not good for brahmacharya. They make the salmon very thin, or make it very weak. I know someone who used to drink 20 glasses of carrot juice a day. Then when he wanted to have a child, he couldn’t. It made him impotent. So that’s why Hari Bhaktivalam says stay away from it. You understand? But if there’s a little grated carrot in your salad or something like that, then, you know, you’re not going to die.

You have to know why it mentions that.

Otherwise, it’s a waste of time. You waste your time, you waste everybody else’s time, and then you try to blame it on Gopi Puranadana.

You understand? That’s the point.

See, because the point is, is the rule is that, in logic, you’re going to have a thesis, right? Then you’re going to expand on that thesis. That’s the second part. The third part of the logic, logical sequence, will be to give examples. What am I going to give examples in? What does that mean by example? What’s the inherent element of an example? It’s an application. So that means it’s something you can see, you could touch, you could smell it, taste it, you could do like that. You could see it. You can deal with it. So now, in one principle, there may be hundreds of applications.

Right? But, you’re speaking to a particular audience, so you use this specific example. So does that mean now, that only that example accomplishes the work?

No. So this is the problem. We read the scriptures, and the examples they give, and the forms that they talk about, we take it that that form is the exclusive and only way it can be accomplished. And so, because I don’t have that, therefore you can’t accomplish this. Therefore, you can’t, you know, there’s no need to follow the rule. But there’s a principle that’s always to be followed, and an example is given. Hari-bhakti-vilasa, when it goes through something, in like Deity installation, it will start quoting from, you know, different samhitas. It’ll go through one thing, and then it’ll suddenly start all over again in a completely different way. And then it’ll do it again. All he’s doing is pointing out, depending upon the samhita you’re following, that these are the essential elements that you would follow. Or if you want to make any combination, these are the elements from which you can choose.

It doesn’t say you have to do them all. So if you say you can’t do all the rules because it’s not, but that means you don’t know how Hari-bhakti-vilasa works. It’s an encyclopedia, it’s not a manual. Anybody who makes a mistake thinking it’s a manual doesn’t understand. You know what I’m saying? You have a dictionary, it’s got hundreds of thousands of words. Oh, all these words aren’t practical. Yeah, maybe in your situation, but in other situations people are using them. So if it’s in your situation it’s used, you use it. And if not, you don’t.

You know what I’m saying? That’s the point.

So, see, my basic thing is that what we’re trying to do, which appears we haven’t, is we’re trying to get beyond the concept that the external is the one and only way of understanding anything. In other words, through pratyaksa is the only way. No, authority is there. And authority is establishing the principles on which it functions. God’s unlimited, there’s unlimited manifestation. Of that unlimited manifestation, there’s certain ones He likes.

And since we want to develop a relationship with Him, we try to stay within the forms that He likes. If they’re available. If not, there’s a principle that’s more important that He likes. Right? Krishna likes the exchange of affection between Himself and His devotees. That’s the most important. Now there’s natural forms. Right? Sitting in the forest with the cowherd boys, eating lunch, stealing each other’s lunch, sharing their lunch. That’s one way. Mother Yashoda sitting in the house in a very nice way, semi-formal, but same time very, very, how you say, has the element of the… Structured, but informal. Then serving is going on, and it’s a very nice cultured atmosphere. It’s not like out with the cowherd boys who are stealing each other’s lunch and eating with any hand and just going nuts.

Gopis are sitting there in the forest offering Krishna fruits and flowers from the forest, everything like this. That’s going on. Servants are bringing things with great reverence, offering to Krishna, you know, and all these things. That’s going on. So they’re standard forms. Right? But Krishna goes and visits… Oh, what’s his name?

Srutadeva. He was the brahmana?

He wasn’t the ksatriya. Oh, whatever it is. So it was Srutadeva and one other. So he went to visit him, and Krishna walked in because he was a great devotee. He had gone to this particular place simply because of this king and this brahmana. Right? There was other works and all that, but he went there because of these two. So he goes to visit this brahmana. The brahmana is, you know, very, you know, how you say, simple. He doesn’t have much means, and he is very… When Krishna comes, he and his wife are so enthusiastic that they just have some bananas in the house. They bring the bananas, they’re peeling the bananas, throwing the banana away and giving Krishna the banana peel. And Krishna’s eating it. So now they go, Oh, so that’s the rule. Now if we have devotion, we’ll serve Krishna the banana peel. You know, Oh, they’re serving Krishna bananas. You know, this is nonsense because Srutadeva threw the banana away. So there must be some reason for this, you know, why the banana is there. So that’s the impure fruit of the, you know, all the karmic, you know, elements of the banana tree. So the peel, you know, which is, you know, you know what I’m saying? This is… We have to get beyond this. We have to understand there’s a principle. So the point is, if you’re so much in ecstasy, you don’t notice whether it’s a banana or a banana peel, fine. But if you can tell which is the banana, the banana peel, and you throw the banana away, you’re nonsense. Why does Krishna want a banana peel?

Krishna’s interested in the devotion. So the form carries the devotion. The form is the manifestation of the principle.

So there’s one principle, many forms. Get over it. There are many forms for the principle. You only see forms, you’ve missed the point. That’s what he says. They understand the Vedas. The realization’s not there. Otherwise they’d understand that there are many forms. So there’s ideal forms, and then there’s whatever you can do.

That’s the point.

This is the point. We get so caught up in the rules that we either throw them out or we follow them dogmatically.

This is Niyamagraha. The point is, is there’s a principle there, you’re trying your best to obtain that principle in the nicest way possible.

Right? As one devotee put it succinctly, devotional service is offering the best you can with the greatest amount of devotion.

That’s the point.

You know, so the acaryas, they establish what’s best, and you get as close as you can to it.

The point is, following the principle, that’s following the rules of the Vedas. And if you only take the external form, you’ll never be able to follow them, but you’ll never be able to follow anything else either. You know, it’s amazing how in material life we’re so accommodating, but in devotional life we’re so fanatic.

We’re such smarters, and therefore we throw it out. But in contemporary life, we’re so broad-minded and liberal that, you know, as close as we can get, we do.

But if there was a better opportunity, we’d take it.

You know, just naturally we do it. But this principle, we can’t apply in devotional service. Why? Because we don’t actually know what we’re doing. That’s why there’s need of study, so you’re actually aware of what we do and why we do it. Does this make sense? So I would really appreciate it if you have a doubt on understanding that where is the principle in a particular point asked, but I really would request we don’t ask this question again. You know, this particular form of the rule, you know, can’t be applied, so therefore we can’t apply anything. So where does that leave us? I really don’t want to hear this again. We’re on the 17th chapter. This was the first six chapters.

So it’s really painful that on this, that in those first six chapters, these questions were not asked. And in the 17th chapter, when we’re trying to work out fine points, we’re still stuck on such important, but very much more, how do you say, be the proper term.

No, no, but just more simple, more basic points. They’re fundamental. Neophyte? Neophyte, yeah. It is a neophyte position to only see externals. That’s why it’s called prakriti bhakta. He only sees the form. But as we’ve discussed before, it’s that Krishna is the purpose that we’re trying to obtain. Lakshmi takes those forms and activities to obtain that quality. That’s reflected into the material energy. Right? The material energy therefore transforms if you follow those forms given by Lakshmi, and therefore you’ll obtain that quality. So either through the internal or the external potency, you’ll obtain that quality. Now if you see it in relation to Krishna, you’re working with internal potency. If you don’t see it in relationship with Krishna, you think you’re the controller and enjoy it. You’re dealing with external potency.

Very simple fundamental point. But we’re so caught up. No, but the external transformation of the material cause, we don’t have the one like they talked about in Hari Bhakti Vilas. So we can’t do it. What about the other three? We only see the one thing. No, let’s say two. I’m the controller and material in nature is what I’m controlling.

But what about the other two? That’s seeing. That’s what these pages are trying to establish. You don’t see that, you’re not seeing. You’re blind. That’s why it uses the word understand.

Because intellectually it makes some sense. But you don’t see it. Seeing, realization means you see. Shastra Chakshus means you see in this way. Not you know in this way, you see in this way. Otherwise it’d be called Shastra Gyan, Samanda Gyan. This is called Shastra Chakshus, means seeing through the eyes of scriptures.

Does this make sense? So over the last basically week, we’ve wasted a lot of time on this one point. We haven’t moved beyond this point. We’re very attached to this point. No, I have this forms that I’m attached to. Those should be called good. And the forms that I’m not attached to, even though the scriptures recommend them, I want it to be said that I don’t have to follow them because I don’t want to.

And we’ve been dealing with this question again and again and again and again and again for the last week or two weeks.

And the problem is, is that if this is really important, then we’ll close this and we’ll go back to the book and we’ll start at the second chapter again and go through it so you understand.

Does it make sense?

These things that we’re learning here, it’s not that we won’t have questions and won’t be dealing with it for the rest of our life. Gita is not a one-time study book. It’s something that, this knowledge is for a lifetime. So in practice, yes. But unless we see the principle that there’s a quality that one’s trying to obtain and then there’s many forms to obtain it.

And then there’s recommended forms and then there’s, you know, if you have that, take it. If you don’t take it, that’s nonsense. But if it’s not available, then you take the next best. And if that’s not, then the next best. But we tend to go from either the best or the worst. You know? Well, it’s either, you know, we go to this program in the Lamborghini or we take a pogo stick. I mean, there’s just no other, there’s just nothing else, you know?

In other words, you know, it’s perfect, made it just like it’s said there or it’s just the way I grew up in my family. These are the only two alternatives.

Why not something progressive?

If the only alternative is something your mommy would have done, take it. But if there’s something better than that, why one wouldn’t take that? Basically one reason. You’re attached to what you did when your mommy was there.

That’s all.

Does that make sense? Because our conditioning, you see, it’s according to our background. Though we’re talking the same thing, so it’s generic. The soul is attached to, as I said, the first weakness is I’m the controller and enjoyer. Right? So I am mine. And the second one is by dealing with, trying to endeavor to obtain this control and this enjoyment, what you deal with, you get attached to. Right? Krishna made that point before. You deal with the material energy. You get attached. I deal with, but I don’t get attached.

That’s the difference. Because Krishna is independent. We’re dependent. So you’ll notice that it doesn’t matter the background. The point is always the same. But it’s very interesting to note that according to the background, that’s actually the point of contention in the question. That’s the form that is… Right? Because he’s saying in China. He’s not saying in Korea.

You know? Or even in Taiwan.

Like that. He’s saying all about Russia. The other day that was all about America.

You understand? So you can see is that that’s the specific application. That’s the specific detail. But the principle that they’re basing it on, that’s universal. Because that is the conditioning of the living entity. That’s the universal point. That’s what Gita is dealing with. It’s what is the universal elements that condition every living entity in the material world. See that? You’re out of here. Don’t see that you get caught up in your own specific conditioning.

Then you’ll have a problem. Because the field means one, material energy and the specifics of what field you happen to be in right now. Right? Material energy is very vast. Universal form is quite big. Right? Frighteningly big. But at the present we’re in a specific place.

And so that’s what you have to deal with. But to start saying well we have to deal with that is you know so then that makes that up. No. It’s not that that makes it okay. It is connecting something to Krishna is okay.

Right? That’s the point. And if this is what you have to connect that’s what you use. Because you have to function in the situation you’re in. But it’s the connection to Krishna that’s important. But we’re looking so much at the externals. But you know Hari Bhakti Las doesn’t say that you know we can use brown brown you know these brown rugs with the yellow and black splotches on them that actually come kind of from a western kind of thing and specifically more like kind of like Scottish. So you know Sanatana Goswami doesn’t say that we can use you know wool blankets that have a Scottish design on them. And so therefore we can’t follow the Hari Bhakti Las.

You know I mean it’s like we have to be able to move beyond this if we want to progress. Otherwise we’ll just go on fighting over these things.

Right? The point is why did we pick these? You know these aren’t the nicest thing to sit on. But why did we pick these?

Availability. Yes. But availability so that’s the practical that’s working within the field. But we do have choice within the field. Why did we choose these? Price. Price. Okay. That’s also a consideration. Yes. Within the range of that so within the quality that we’re looking for then there is price difference. Yes. Warmth. Warmth. Okay. Yes. They accomplish that. That’s why we put them down. So we wanted something to create warmth. So this accomplishes it. But something else could have accomplished it also. They’re made of wool so they’re pure. That’s the point. So we need something that’s warm so we want to accomplish that and we want something that’s pure so that’s going to be done with wool. Right? And within our price range. Of course we could have brought in you know alpaca or angora but you know that’s not going to fit into our price range and probably not practically you know work. You know what I’m saying? If we did that everyone would go ooh wow cool and I’m talking away and everyone’s like you know so it would be a bit of a distraction.

You know and the price down from this is really prickly then everybody go ooh so you know we try to catch something in between. Right? It accomplishes it and it doesn’t distract. Does that make sense? So that means these blankets are connected to the principles that Hari Bhaktivlas talks about.

That’s why I’m saying is that when you say you can’t follow Hari Bhaktivlas I say the person whoever says that really doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

You know what I’m saying?

Yeah. See the thing is a good chance you haven’t read it you’re talking about somebody else and then you’re using that as an example why you can’t do things in your life. So that’s really stretching it.

You know what I’m saying? Stick to what you know. You know I mean okay you know so as you know okay you know in you know Marvel Comics you know then the Hulk had to do this. Stick to that. You know what I’m saying? Stick to Tolstoy. Stick to you know something that you actually can see and deal with. But don’t quote Hari Bhaktivlas quote it from someone else and someone else is something you don’t even know. And then apply that in the situation.

You know especially in this environment. Don’t bring bring up some other book. Don’t bring up Hari Bhaktivlas around here. You know what I’m saying?

Yes.

It can be. It’s it’s that’s the externals and so that’s why they do but it can be as we mentioned already it can be that they are with determination following those rules. You know that those their whimsical ideas or it can be just out of habit. Right? And it can be that the determination is something out of habit. So if you have a person who is you know how you say systematically materialistic and very efficient at it if you can convince him of the spiritual he’ll be systematically efficient at spiritual progress. Because that’s the quality. He wants things to work it must make order it must you know like this. So you have to know what is the quality that’s valuable.

And keep that. Otherwise like he was saying that everything in Chinese culture people walk on the ground in China. So as devotees we don’t walk on the ground. We throw that out. You know like that. People in China they walk on the sidewalk you know they don’t walk in the middle of this 12 lane highway you know they don’t walk through walls you know so all that is out. You know we’re devotees so we walk through walls we walk in the middle of the highway in fact we zigzag across the highway. You know like that. Everybody else they walk straight in a line in the shortest way. No we zigzag all 12 lanes you know like that. At least you know how you say 12 lanes so 12 times you know per kilometer you know something like that.

Yes and it’s not mentioned in the Haridakta Laws. He doesn’t tell you how to get across the 12 lane highway. It’s a problem.

Of course you only have that problem in China and in Los Angeles but no actually Moscow also I’ve seen some 12 lanes right in the middle of the city.

So for most of you it may not be a problem.

Okay. Srila Prabhupada explains the principle of faith in his purport to verse 3. Everyone has a particular type of faith regardless of what he is. So otherwise if you don’t have faith you don’t work. No faith you can’t function.

What is what do you call it when you feel you can’t function? I can’t work or can’t do anything I’m useless.

Low self-esteem. What’s the point? Actual point. Lack of faith. You understand? So if you have faith you act. You don’t have faith you don’t act.

So here everyone has a particular type of faith or you have faith that I have no that I’m useless. Right? So even if you could do something you won’t because I can’t.

Regardless of what he is but his faith is considered good passionate or ignorant according to the nature he’s acquired. Notice he didn’t say goodness, passionate he just said good passionate or ignorant. Right? So in other words goodness is good and then you have passionate or ignorant. According to the nature he is acquired Shraddha or faith originally comes out of the mode of goodness. Right? Because goodness means you’re dealing with the present you’re dealing with knowledge. So that’s the real Shraddha. But then that becomes perverted by lust. Right? So lust creates all that activity greed and everything and we see when it increases more it increases illusion and madness. Right? Pride. So illusion, madness, pride. Pride is a symptom of ignorance. We’ll generally take it as passion. No, it’s ignorance. Like that. Passionate simply means you want to get something out of the material energy for your own enjoyment. That’s passion. You can also do that in great humility.

Right? So, so, yeah.

One’s faith may be in a demigod or some created god or some mental concoction.

One’s strong faith is supposed to be productive of works of material goodness or some mental concoction. One’s faith may be in. You know. One saw that one, you know somebody did this and they got a bad result so then that thing is bad so even though devotees say it’s a good thing it’s bad. That’s faith in a mental concoction. You understand? In other words this chapter comes closer to home than we would probably like it to be.

So whatever you have faith in if it’s not Krishna and connecting whatever it is you’re doing to Krishna directly that’s, this is what it’s talking about. You have faith that something else will work. Something else will make me happy.

One’s strong faith is supposed to be productive of works of material goodness but in material conditional life no works are completely purified. It’s supposed to be productive of good material goodness. So if it’s purely that then it transcends.

So you can have that you can say but then it won’t be a material sphere. It still is within the material manifestation but it’s not material. Visuddha-sattva within the pradhana the mahat-tattva excuse me that is pure goodness but it’s still within the concept that I’m the controller and enjoyer. But it has no manifestation within the material sphere. It’s completely there is it’s naiskarmi because there is no activity.

You know what I’m saying? So you can get to that platform you know by liberation through following those processes but it’s it’s so but the pure goodness we’re talking about is in connection with Krishna then it’s devotional.

They are mixed they are not in pure goodness. Pure goodness is transcendental. In purified goodness one can understand the real nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As long as one’s faith is not completely in purified goodness the faith is is subject to contamination by any of the modes of material nature. So this chapter is going to define that so one can see it.

The contaminated modes of material nature expand to the heart.

Therefore according to the position of the heart in contact with a particular mode of material nature one’s faith is established. Right? Because we say there’s the consciousness but then one gets attached to what one deals with. What gets attached? Is the consciousness attached to a specific thing? The mind. Right? Because the consciousness is attached to I’m the controller and enjoyer. However that may manifest cool. Right? But the mind gets attached to a particular form. Right? So that’s why so that’s the thing so it’s in the heart. One’s faith is therefore according to the position of the heart in contact with a particular mode of nature one’s faith is established. So by seeing what one is attached to one knows the nature of the mind. Right? And then from there you’re trying to adjust that to connect that to Krishna and connect the polluted consciousness to Krishna. Right? So you work on both. The one is so distracting because of its mode that you don’t necessarily you don’t see the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In pure goodness you see the Supreme Personality of God.

Right? Like that. so consciousness has to be worked on. At the same time you have to work on the mode that you’re dealing with. Right? So connected to Krishna it removes it from the modes. Right? And since it’s removed from the modes and you’re seeing Krishna so therefore that situation and Krishna you bring together. And so is that an offering you’d want to make to Krishna?

Right? If it is, great. If it’s not, fix it.

That’s the point. Don’t make a philosophy.

It should be understood if one’s heart is in the mode of goodness his faith is also in the mode of goodness. So whatever you’re attached to that’s the mode you you know the mode that you’re attached to is the mode that you’re working under your faith. Right? Because it means why I say faith because the faith means faith here means what you’re attached to what you think will attain your goal. Right? So attachment’s in the position of prayojana a goal. Right? Does that make sense? So what you’re attached to you know and you know you have faith that that will attain what it is you want. So by seeing the faith you see what mode one’s in. You know when they say oh no you can’t do it no it’s scientific.

Because you’re dealing with the heart the heart means prayojana means attachment and the material scene means lust means desire for enjoyment separate from Krishna. The spiritual world then that position is taken by love of God. So that means the heart is attached to Krishna. So whatever you want is for Krishna’s pleasure. So you’re going to get Krishna the best you can in this situation.

Right? Mother just showed his house then they may not serve him on leaves prasad. Right? They may use silver or gold or like that. They may also use leaves.

You know what I’m saying? Depending upon what’s their consideration. But when you’re out in the forest what are you going to use? Yeah leaves. So that’s the best in that situation. One it’s the best available and in that it’s also the best. It matches the situation nicely.

Does that make sense? So that’s that’s rasa. That’s what we’re dealing with. So to say oh no we don’t care for these rules means actually I don’t care for rasa. It just means whatever I like whatever my faith is in that’s perfect.

You know? So that means my material attachment my material mind that is that being my drive that’s good. That’s fine. No one should bother it. But we’re trying to change that from yes you have a mind you have attachments great. Connect that attachments to Krishna.

They’ll be purified. And then eventually you’ll take up the attachments that Krishna likes.

If his heart is in the mode of passion his faith is also in the mode of passion. If his heart is in the mode of darkness illusion his faith is also thus contaminated.

Yeah. In other words once faith if it’s not purified will be connected to a particular mode. So you look at the mode you know the faith. Right? In other words the mode is established from the faith. So faith is does that make sense? The condition of your mind is the situation you put yourself in. So you look at the situation you know the condition of this person’s mind. Right?

Thus we find different types of faith in this world. And there are different types of religions due to different types of faith. The real principle of religious faith is situated in the mode of pure goodness. But because the heart is tainted we find different types of religious principles. But the mode of pure goodness that’s the actual thing. So whatever else we’re talking about is where it’s connected with the modes. And then we’re saying is that because of the modes therefore you can’t have pure goodness. No. Pure goodness means it’s connected to Krishna.

So therefore you can have. There’s reflections to reflection. It doesn’t matter what it’s technically made out of. The reflection in the mirror of your face is not made out of the same thing that your face is made out of. But it corresponds. So the point is it can still be used. It’s inferior but it can still be used. Does that make sense? So you don’t have to get all caught up that it’s something different and we can’t use and this and that. No. It’s God’s energy anyway and it is Brahman. Brahman is generally known as you know pretty good substance.

Right? But it only works that way if you see it as Brahman. If you don’t see it that way it doesn’t work that way. You know what I’m saying? You have a ferocious vicious dog you see him as your friend he acts that way. You don’t see him as your friend he doesn’t act that way.

You know? So it’s not the dog it’s how you see it.

So it’s not Maya. The problem’s not Maya the problem is how we see Maya.

Thus according to different types of faith there are different kinds of worship. As Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport in this purport though faith originally comes from the mode of pure goodness in the material realm it manifests according to the modes of nature. The association of the living entity with the modes of nature has been going on perpetually since time immemorial. As a result of this association the jiva constitutionally transcendental to the modes has developed different kinds of conditioned mentality which results in artificial faith.

Gradually one can change this mentality and the resultant faith from ignorance to goodness or from passion to goodness. It’s artificial faith that’s why we say it’s conditioned.

Constitutional is natural.

So to try to establish that conditional faith is fine. It’s fine for staying in the material world but it’s not for getting out.

So one can deal with the conditional these situations that are generated due to one’s conditioning for Krishna because they’re not unique to you. That’s the outs of the faith is I’m special and unique because of my material. No, that’s just the modes of nature created that. It’s always been there. There’s always this kind of thing.

As a result of this association the jiva constitutionally transcendental of the modes has developed different kinds types of conditioned mentality which results in artificial faith. Gradually one can change this mentality and the resultant faith from ignorance to goodness or from passion to goodness. This is possible if one follows the instructions of a bona fide spiritual master. In other words blind faith in a particular mode of nature cannot help a person become elevated to the perfect stage.

One has to consider things carefully with intelligence in the association of a bona fide spiritual master. Then one can change this position to a higher mode of nature and ultimately to transcend it. So that’s the point we’re saying. Intelligence has to be used to be able to finally discriminate the difference here. If we’re always just so worried about this external what’s our worry because we’re attached to it and we don’t want to lose that. You know what I’m saying?

We don’t want to lose the mystic because that’s our attachment.

Right? So therefore if we if we don’t come to conclusions it leaves things without a conclusion. And you can somehow undertake lack of conclusion and mystical and kind of connect them because you know I say because lack of conclusion means we don’t it could be anything. And mystical means anything could happen. So wanting to get that mystical taste I’ll break down the rules so that I can remain that way and say it’s good. You understand?

Does that make sense? Yes.

What’s your problem?

For a stupid disciple?

Yes. Listen to other people who are smarter. And if they say he’s bona fide go for it.

Right? Would you know Brahma, Buddha, Prasannatma if he came up and slapped you in the face?

Would you know?

Right? How many people understood Bhaktivinoda Thakura was a Nitya Siddha in his time?

How many people understood Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura? How many people understood which Prabhupada was?

How many people understood Krishna was the Supreme Personality of Godhead when he walked into the arena in Mathura?

So therefore there’s authority and you go by authority and learn the symptoms there.

Because the point is is look at yourself.

Are you something special that is spiritual master that you deserve to be picked up because you’re so great and special?

This is a problem. You ask a question but you don’t understand enough English to understand the answer.

Yeah, so then that’s a problem.

You understand? Because I’m giving you an answer you can’t understand it so you have to understand it’s not it’s not the fault lies in the lack of a medium of communication.

Not that people aren’t willing to communicate.

You know what I’m saying?

So you have to emotionally allow that others can stop the conversation and they haven’t done an injustice.

Does that make sense?

Yes? Right? We jump up and down the guru has to be you know, dropped out of the spiritual world but what about us?

You know what I’m saying? You know, we have to look at it. Which gutter did we come out of?

You know what I’m saying? So to pull you out of a gutter you simply have to have someone standing on the sidewalk.

Right? Someone else in the gutter yes, problem but someone standing on the sidewalk can get you out.

So that’s the position. The chit potency flows through things. You know, we’re only thinking well if the you know, unless it’s you know, how you say you know, special you know how you say these, you know I’m not sure what they use these days for the high level electrical current and then they take it down to absolute zero and then the current goes through it and perfects you know, like that so unless it’s that current won’t run to it. Right? Isn’t it? Right? You know, all of your houses and all that you’ve got these special high conductor wires that are being kept at a temperature you know, of absolute zero because they’re being frozen by liquid nitrogen. Right? Isn’t that how it’s everybody’s house is like. I’m happy just if I have electricity. Ah, yes. Hey, it’s been three days. Hey, the electricity is out. Okay, yeah. So, the point is it’s working. Your light bulb is working.

So that’s the point. That’s chit potency. If it’s bona fide it runs through it.

You understand? There’s a good chance that everybody sitting here in this room was convinced of devotional service or inspired to take up devotional service and the person who preached to them possibly wasn’t even initiated.

Maybe it was just initiated.

You know? It wasn’t, you know, the Nitya Siddha came along walked into your house and said, hey, let’s go. You know? But should I tell my mommy? Forget your mommy.

I think, first, he touched you on the head so you saw the light. Yes, he touched you on the head so you saw the light. Yeah. Okay, you know the whole thing. So, the point is that’s not who came. It’s just another devotee in the temple.

So how did that work? How did they take you from total material absorption to faith in Krishna consciousness? And they were just a new devotee and good chance we would, you know, unanimously qualify them as a neophyte devotee.

Right? Or, if not, they were a solid preacher as a Madhyama.

But all our definitions, you know, Brahma, Buddha, this, that, so many things would go on and on and on. But that’s not who made, that’s not who brought us out of material consciousness which we’ve been in since time immemorial. So it’s no big, it’s no small thing. It’s a big thing. They brought us over and gave us that faith. Where did that faith come from? That’s chit potency. So if they’re carrying the chit potency, then why are you worrying about a guy who’s been around for some time and done some serious service for Krishna?

You understand? So bona fide means they’re following in the line of the instructions of the Acharyas in cooperation with the Vaishnava community. That’s bona fide. And if you want to get into finer details, great, but I would really appreciate it if you could take that finer details and apply it into this chapter which is discerning between the modes.

You know what I’m saying? Guru issues, that’s for first, second, third, up to sixth chapter it’s issue time. And from there issues are supposed to be over.

According to Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, verses two to four describe those who have given up shastra out of laziness or because the required worship was troublesome. Laziness is ignorance, troublesome is passion.

They faithfully worship demigods, demons, or ghosts and spirits. The faith of such persons arises not from the scripture but from the pious and impious impressions stocked in their mind. That’s the important thing that whimsicalness means it’s not based on scripture. It’s coming up just from that stock of samskara from one’s past experience.

And it’s coming from the shastra. Then there’s more then we’re not talking about. Then it’s divine. But now it may be lower level of divine. Devotional service is the highest level of divine. But still you gotta get from whimsical just based on your samskaras to actually functioning in devotional service. Does that make sense? So we’re doing that. We’re going to either function on scripture or on your samskaras. So that’s why for kids samskaras are important. Because they’re just going to function on their samskaras. They don’t know shastra. They don’t act like that. They function on their experience. You give them that pure experience it will improve the quality of what they do. So we say we just chant Hare Krishna we don’t care for the rules. Great! That’s you as an initiated adult. What about your three year old kid? Or your baby? Or your baby in the womb? You know or how you say? Your child in the form of the twinkle in your eye.

You know what I’m saying? What about that? So that’s what it’s for. Yes. So we’re dealing with people who have given up samskara because of their passion for it. Yes. Because you’re not going to give it up by goodness because goodness means knowledge. Yeah, but it says faithfully worship demigods and here in text four it says that men in the mode of goodness worship the demigods. Yes, but the point is they’re not doing it because of shastra. This is the point. Is this because the form is there doesn’t mean you’ve actually obtained the Vedic principle.

Right? So and at the same time it doesn’t mean because you’re not using the traditional form you haven’t obtained the Vedic principle. But the argument over this happens not on that point of the principle it happens on the detail. So one’s arguing unless you follow this detail it’s not Vedic and the other is well you can’t do all this Vedic things you know we’re in the modern world we’re contemporary so therefore we don’t have to follow it. But neither of them are talking about the principle on which you’re trying to obtain by either following this form or that form. So that’s why they both missed the point. It’s neophyte. It’s a neophyte understanding because it’s based on ignorance. There’s just no knowledge. Goodness is knowledge.

So that faith therefore even is of a lower level. But the one is more pious because they’re based on scripture while the other is more whimsical. So one is better situated though they still don’t understand. And the one doesn’t understand and is not situated. So that’s worse.

You know what I’m saying?

Okay. Therefore in their worship they follow not shastra but their own conditioned nature. This is the point. Because when devotees are talking about you know fanaticism and not worrying about the rules you can’t follow it’s Kali Yuga these are antiquated and we’re in the modern world. What are they talking about? These points aren’t coming from scripture. They’re coming from their own impressions stuck in their own mind. This is Baladeva Dibhushan. So if it comes down to Baladeva Dibhushan devotee you know with their own philosophy Baladeva Dibhushan devotee with their own philosophy which are we gonna take? Right? So this is his point. It may be no but it’s not like that actually it’s no. This is what Baladeva says. It’s not connected to scripture. That’s why we give time and time again this example. Somebody in the community has done some nonsense and everybody says this is wrong. Fine. Why do they say it’s wrong? Very rarely because of scripture. Simply because of their own conditioning that in their own community before joining Krishna consciousness this was considered wrong. So that’s working on the impressions stuck in their own mind.

So then nice if it’s in line with the Vedic version it’ll work. But if it’s not in line with the Vedic version that means it’s according to passion or ignorance. So even though it’ll give some immediate result just a little down the road it will create problem. And you’ll have to deal with it again.

Does that make sense? So this is the difficulty. Right? In self-help they call this what they call troubleshooting. You’re just dealing with that and you don’t see beyond that. So you’re just dealing with the problem. So you don’t have knowledge. You can’t see the bigger picture. So therefore it removes the problem today. But later today or tomorrow the problem comes up again.

Right? So they’ve observed but they can’t take it back to the modes of functioning in the modes. This is the weakness. Gita 10.

OK.

Done. OK. This is described in Bhagavad Gita 7.20. Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures. According to their own natures. Right? Like that. So the thing is this. What we’re doing is we’re taking it… No, I’m… We can’t follow all the Vedic stuff but when I take examples of this I’m only going to take Vedic examples. So I’m… No, I’m not worshipping demigods in my house. Right? I’m not worshipping ghosts and demons and all that. You understand? But if you can’t take that and translate it into the contemporary environment one may be doing that.

You know what I’m saying?

Does that make sense?

In text 5 to 6 in contrast Oh, text 5 to 6 in contrast describe not those who have whimsically given up following the Vedas but those who are against Vedic injunctions. Right? So those who whimsically given up didn’t think about it and then those who are against so that’s what we’re saying there’s a difference here. You whimsically gave up because of your conditioning so you don’t even notice it because conditioning you don’t notice. You just do it. So they… One will be thinking I’m engaged in devotional service all the time but in actuality they’re not necessarily. So that’s whimsically giving up. That’s… That’s lighter. You can deal with that because it’s just a matter of pointing these things out. Then there are those who have their philosophies. They’re against the Vedas. You know like this one we can’t follow Hari Bhakti Vilas. What do you mean? That’s what… Who said?

You have to know what it is then you can use it. You know? You know you’re dealing with a bicycle. You know don’t look at a you know Ferrari you know manual and then say oh you can’t use this. Yeah you can’t use it on your bicycle.

But it still works on Ferraris. You know? It’s like that.

So… Those who out of pride and egoism undergo severe austerities and penances not recommended in the scriptures who are impelled by lust and attachments severe austerities but not recommended in the scriptures like Degas in the scriptures who are impelled by lust and attachment who are foolish and who torture the material elements in the body as well as the super soul within are known as demons. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusa describes these demons as follows.

They perform austerities which give pain to others according to their own scriptures which are contradictory to the Vedas. In other words you do it but it gives a problem to others. Right? Like that.

Endowed with obstinacy given by me alone to let them accomplish their desires for sense objects. Right? So even Krishna gives them that focus and determination because faith comes from Krishna. So you want it in the mode he’ll give it to you. So it’s still working by Krishna’s potency even though the atheist is so atheistic but still that faith in atheism is still coming from Krishna. If it didn’t happen he wouldn’t.

They make the combination of elements of the body wither away by means of such things as useless fasting.

They also make me wither away like this. We will fast all week on all special diets but when it comes to a codice you know like, why don’t you fast? No, don’t be fanatic. You know how to fast. We have scheduled two days a month you can fast from whatever you like just everything you know except air. Like that. You know so you can do it but no, no that’s fanatic. But you know I’ll just be on this. You know. You understand? This is the problem.

So, unless it’s connected and why are we doing that fast? Is it because of some scriptural connection?

Right? Directly or indirectly? Or is it simply because of our conditioning?

You know what I’m saying?

They also make me wither away by offending me who am situated within their bodies. That means they lose the mercy of the Lord. They are devoid of discriminating scriptural knowledge. Know for certain that these persons who do not follow the injunction of the Vedas are demoniac. Right? So, yeah. So in other words there’s a principle here but we have to be able to see the degrees so that we can find it. That doesn’t mean that this person now is a demon. No, it means that element is demoniac because it’s not connected to the Vedas. It’s whimsical. That has to be removed. Right? All weeds around the creeper of devotion are based on demoniac principles.

So, one has to see that. You know? Does that make sense? It’s the principle that makes it work. Right? Now let us say I have a small pile of gunpowder. Right? And let’s say I have, you know, a huge mountain of gunpowder. Okay? Now, if that gunpowder comes in contact with a spark what happens?

It blows up. It explodes. Now, the principle of it exploding is the same whether it’s a little pile or a huge mountain. The difference is going to be in the effect. The big mountain is going to make more trouble. The little one is going to make less trouble. But it’s the same principle.

So it’s the principle you have to see. Not the size of oh, that’s a huge mountain of this and this is only a little mountain. No, no. It’s a consideration of course because then you know how much you’re dealing with. The more important is understanding the principle.

Right? In other words, someone has a huge mountain if it doesn’t come in contact with a spark there’s no problem.

You understand? So no matter how severe is one’s attachments if they don’t come in contact with them in a way that will spark them it’s not a problem. Right? And because somebody has a small amount of attachment if they’re coming in contact and constantly cultivating attachment it’s not that that’s okay because it’s small. No. That will grow.

Right?

Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport in verse 6 Okay.

We won’t get through that.

Does this make sense? So in other words try to keep the questions in line with understanding this discerning this divine and demoniac nature based on the subtlety that why is it here unless it’s valuable to us.

Right? To be able to discern you know, how it’s there to what degree in what areas and then we can function on it. Does that make sense? So this is what we want to do. Okay? So.

Om Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Srila Prabhupada ki Sarva-Vedha Bhaktivedanta ki Jaya Nityai Gaurakrishnan Hare Hare

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