Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #64

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #64

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So these are being established that these other processes won’t work. Someone is very active, he feels I can get it done, right? Or I’m very intelligent, so therefore I can know it. But the point is, is one can only do and one can only know what you’re allowed to do, right? Because if that’s there, it means you can’t fly on your own. You have to have some process to go through. You don’t follow the process, you can’t know. So the process is established by God, not by us. Even the man wants to fly, it’s established by God. Birds, how do they fly? Using wings. And when man wants to fly, what does he have to do? Make wings.

You understand? So the thing is, it’s set what you can do. You can’t go beyond. So man thinks because I figured something out, therefore I’m in control.

But that’s not exactly what’s being established. So that means the body itself and everything connected, the process and then the process to understand all this, and the knower is the Lord and the Jiva. This, only the devotees. It says you’re unalloyed devotees. So even those who are, you know, if there’s too much material tinge, they can’t understand.

So that would mean that without the grace of the unalloyed devotees, in other words, without Prabhupada’s purports, right? And the comments of the previous Acharyas like this, we can’t understand, right? Because our devotional service is mixed. So therefore, we won’t be able to understand. We won’t have that perspective because we will somehow or another get caught on the karma or on the yawn, right? In some way, get distracted, but they won’t get distracted. So for them, this book is useful because they will be able to do. And therefore, we are following in their footsteps, right? There, we get put into the category of unalloyed devotees, but in practice. So then we can make some use out of it. So it’s only by following these purports that Prabhupada gives that we’ll get anywhere. You think, oh, this is all basic, and so I turn to other people who will give me the more advanced. That means you’ll never understand. It’s no question.

Does that make sense? That’s why, that’s why Krishna’s created the class of people called sahajis. They’re the ones who think they can do, right? On the other side is the mayavadas, who think they can do. That’s the whole problem. They think. You know, how you say it. But they actually can’t apply it. Yes. We’ll see that in the seventh chapter. The four types of persons that come with Krishna. And then the initial primitive approach besides the one which is seeking knowledge is to gain something. So then how does one purify that gain to make sure that that’s not the goal? Just one is looking for that gain and then one is approaching Krishna. So then that will be the goal, but once that gain is attained. Once you’ve gained whatever it is that you want to achieve, you can also… Then they may go away. That’s the whole point. They’re just trying to gain what it is. Then, you know, when they obtain it, they may go. But the idea is by association, then you may pick up on the mood of unalloyed devotion. So then one will move to that position of the jnani. That you want to know God and have that relationship. Then you can move forward. Does that make sense? So that’s the idea.

Okay. Verses 20 through 27. Okay.

Twenty. It says, Krishna’s answer to questions one and two, prakriti and purusa.

Material nature and the living entity should be understood to be beginningless. Their transformations and the modes of matter are products of material nature.

Nature is said to be the cause of all material causes and effects, whereas the living entity is the cause of the various sufferings and enjoyments in this world. That means one is the transformations that take place. In other words, all the situations that you see. But the point is, is whether that is considered enjoyable or suffering. That depends on the jiva. Some person is in the city and he goes out into the country, you know, the pristine countryside. And he goes, this is so nice. This is wonderful. Right? Someone else goes out there and they freak out. You know, what are you going to do? This is boring.

You know what I’m saying? So that’s the point, is that the situation isn’t what defines enjoyable or not enjoyable. Right? The jiva defines that. But the material energy creates all the different manifestations. Right? We think we’re creating, but no, material energy. That’s why material energy is called the material cause.

The living entity in material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to the association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil among various species.

So it’s so simple in one sentence, good and evil amongst various species. So he’s already established that he’ll be in various situations in various species of life, and he’ll find these enjoyable or not.

Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and is known as the Supersoul.

One who understands this philosophy concerning material nature, the living entity, and the interactions of the modes of nature, is sure to attain liberation. He will not take birth here again, regardless of his present position. Right? So if you know the living entity and the modes of nature and how they’re actually functioning, you’ll get liberated. He didn’t say bhakti here. Right? That you have to know, the Supersoul. Some perceive the Supersoul within themselves through meditation. Others through the cultivation of knowledge, and still others through working without fruitive desires.

Again, there are those who, although not conversant in spiritual knowledge, begin to worship the Supreme Person upon hearing about Him from others. Because of their tendency to hear from authorities, they also transcend the path of birth and death. O chief of the Bharatas, know that whatever you see in existence, both the moving and non-moving, is only a combination of the field of activities and the knower of the field.

Here, the knower of the field means the Jiva and the Lord.

Verses 20 to 22 describe the relationship between the material nature and the individual soul. Verse 23 describes the relationship between the material nature of the individual soul and the Supersoul.

Material nature and the living entities are beginningless. The transformations and the modes of nature are products of material nature.

Nature is the cause of all material causes and effects. The individual soul is the cause of very sufferings and enjoyment.

Note, footnote, Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusa writes in his commentary to verse 21, the Jiva is the cause because he is the enjoyer of happiness and distress, which are offered by Prakrti. He is the agent in enjoying them. The functions of the Jiva are to preside over Prakrti and to experience happiness and distress. Since Prakrti is the agent in regards to production of the body and senses, but itself exploited by the Jiva, the Jiva is the principal cause or doer.

So the material energy is producing all the various effects. It means the body, the senses, the environment that the body and senses are in, that the material nature produces. But because the individual Jiva is exploiting that, trying to gain something from that, they’re considered to be the principal cause. So they’re superior to that because they’re the one enjoying. So they’re putting themselves in the masculine position.

The author of Vedanta says, karta-sastrata-sastrata -vat-vat.

The soul is the agent, not Prakrti, because the scriptures must have meaning. Vedanta-sutra 2.3.31 It will also be stated later that the Lord must be accepted as the doer or cause in all causes. Bhagavad-gita 18.14 As was stated earlier, the Lord is the creator, maintainer and destroyer.

So that point that He is also involved. So, okay, this works out okay for the Jiva. It means it’s a bit of a, how do you say, a disappointment that we’re not the supreme controller here. That material nature is actually doing the transformation and then the Jiva is taking advantage of that and trying to enjoy. So that you’re still on top and you’re the one enjoying and that seems to work out okay. Now, and then, but if things go wrong, okay, then, you know, we’ve done the thing, so we’re at fault here. But now when you bring in the Lord and then He is also the supreme cause or the cause in all causes, then we come up with a problem because we will tend to forget that we did the activity and we got the result. But now if the Lord’s involved, then the fault goes to Him.

You understand? Because if He’s the cause of all causes, then the fault’s His, not ours. Because He’s the ultimate cause, so therefore, you know, just like material energy is transforming, that we try to enjoy, therefore we get the karma, not material energy. Right? So the natural same logic is, therefore if the Lord is the supreme cause, then why would we be blamed? It wouldn’t actually move up, right?

Does that make sense? Right? So now the difference is, as has been pointed out before, is the jiva’s attached, the jiva’s an illusion, and the jiva’s making that step to enjoy. But the Lord is not attached, He’s not an illusion, and He’s not trying to enjoy the activity. Therefore, it’s who’s trying to enjoy the activity, they get the reaction.

Because in here, notice in our equation, how material nature’s not to blame because it’s the jiva, so therefore in the same step, the jiva’s not to blame, it’s God. But the point is, what are we complaining about? The bad results. Right? We’re only complaining about that. We’re not saying that, yes, the good results, the bad results, they should be God’s. We’re also saying the good results should also be God’s. So He should get all the happiness, we don’t need any. No, we’re saying we’ll keep the happiness, but the bad stuff, that goes to God.

Right? So it’s not complete. If everything moved up, okay, then that makes some sense. Or we keep both, but we’re using this art of kutanyaya. We only keep the half of the duck that we like. Right? The one that lays the golden eggs, we’ll keep that part. The part that eeks, eats, and quacks, that God can have.

Right? Does that make sense?

Yes. So when it says good and evil among various species, is there such a thing as good and evil for an ant? Good and evil for an ant? Yes.

How would you classify a size 10 shoe? Okay. That would be unpleasant at least. Yeah, okay, but see what I was wondering is… What about an anteater?

Definitely you. Okay, so you don’t like that then. Or falling into a puddle of water.

Falling into the sugar syrup. Yeah, okay. So it has nothing to do with morality or… No, no, no, it’s simply… Except for human beings on this planet, everybody is only receiving the results of their activities while they were in human form on this planet. That’s all. Of course, now animals won’t change anything because they’re simply controlled by the modes. Right? But other human forms, specifically, then they will live within that, but they can also make it worse. They can’t make it better. They can make it worse. You know what I’m saying? It’s just like you do your work, you work all year, now you have your two -week holiday, so you take some of your hard-earned money and you go somewhere for a vacation. Now you figure you have this much money for this much time and this little bit for shopping and this little bit for some other things like this and that, and so you have it planned. So if you just go there and follow your plan, live how you would normally live in that situation, then you get through that holiday. But when the two weeks is up, your money is finished, you have to go back.

Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. But now let’s say you get to the place and then there’s a gambling conceit, so you take all your money and bet on something and lose it all. Now what? You pack up that day and go back.

You understand?

So therefore the demigods, they have their particular, what their life’s going to be like, now what they do with it. You know, as long as they perform their duties, then they’ll live that whole time in that position, but if they do something that they shouldn’t, then they can shorten it.

Does that make sense? Like with Yayati, he’s there in the heavenly planets, and he’s really well situated.

When the demigods and that go up to Brahma’s planet for certain festivals, and not only the really big guys can go, it’s not everybody goes. So then he’s able to go with them. So Indra’s asking, how did you accomplish this? How are your piety compared to anyone else’s? So then he answers with pride, no, no one’s done what I’ve done. My austerities and my religious acts were the greatest, that’s why I’m in this position. So because of that pride, then Indra cursed him, and then he fell out of the heavenly planets. But because he was so great, then other kings gave him the benefits of their pious activities, so he could go back. They would stay here and perform more, but he would go. So because of that, then he went. But because they also gave selflessly, they also went with him.

Does that make sense? So this is the point, you can’t increase it, but you can decrease it.

Does that make sense? Yes. Maharaj, there are 23 famous verses from the Bhukti scriptures, and there is some discussion about how Lord Krishna and Lord Caitanya are different or non-different from the Supersoul.

What has that got to do with Bhukti scriptures?

Well, often in the street, in many places, there are these verses. But why this verse?

Well, it specifically speaks that our Supersoul is the perpetrator and the foreseer of everything.

Oh, okay, so he permits you to sell the books.

What’s the question?

Should we think that there is some difference between Lord Krishna and Supersoul, or like if you are praying… Is there a difference between Krishna and Vishnu, then?

Yes, I know. Keśava-dvīta-nāra-hari-lūpa.

So what does that mean?

Something like Supreme Lord in the form of… Yeah, it means Krishna has come as Nṛsiṁhadeva for those pastimes, so he’s also come as the former Supersoul.

So, is that okay? So is it that if somebody prays to Supersoul, then Krishna reciprocates in the level of Supersoul? Yes, prays to Krishna, then he reciprocates.

Yes. I can’t understand when you say you said we cannot increase, but cannot decrease.

Indra, can he increase his pious activities?

Indra, can he increase his pious activities?

How? Because if he could, he’d just stay Indra. But what happens? When 72 Mahayugas are over, someone else takes over. Because that’s all the longer a hundred asura -medha yajnas left.

You know what I’m saying? He could perform his duties as Indra to maintain himself, but he can’t extend.

You know what I’m saying? He performs his duties, so he stays in that position. If he doesn’t do his duties, why should he be there? But he can’t do anything to increase his position. He can’t move from Indra and from there, go up to, you know, for Japati or anything like that. He has to come back down here. Then he can do things again and then try to go.

It’s that, you know, devas in the Mahabharata, they also perform pious activities. But that’s just they’re performing their activities. Devotional service? Sometimes they do. But the tendency is they’re not so…

Asura means one who thinks of the Lord when things go wrong.

Right? You know, when Indra’s sitting there on his throne, the apsaras are dancing and everything’s going nicely, is he generally thinking of Krsna?

No, but when the demons attack the heavenly planets and throw them out, that’s what he thinks of Krsna.

You understand?

It’s just like this. Let’s say things are going really well for you, the family, everything’s going nice, your friends, you’re getting position, everything’s happening, money’s pouring in. You know, are you thinking, wow, this is so great, I have to go to the temple.

Or is it, you know, things aren’t going right and nothing, you don’t see any other way, I’ve tried this, tried that, called up this one, talked to that one, and then it’s nothing, so then you think, wow, I should go to the temple.

You understand? So, you can say mathematically that, you know, of course they could do, but will they do?

Narada Muni, in his, you know, if you go back two lifetimes, right? Then he was a Gandharva. Right? What was this, what does it mention about the speciality of this Gandharva?

He’s a, that’s Gandharvas in general, but this specific Gandharva, what was something he could pull off, that you don’t hear it mentioned about any other Gandharva. I’ve never heard it mentioned anywhere else.

No?

He could keep fifty apsaras fully absorbed and entertained and focused on him at a time. Right? We’re not talking one apsara. We’re talking fifty.

Right? So now when the demigods are doing Harinam Samkirtan, what’s he doing?

He’s trying to do the same thing when he’s trying to impress these girls. Right? I mean, you go to the temple, right? The guy’s leading the kirtan and all that. You know, and if you look at him, some of them are trying to impress the girls. But they have no control over those girls. They don’t have any relationship with them. Nothing. They’re just trying their luck because they’re there. Now this guy actually has fifty girls completely enamored by him.

So then, so he’s just singing to impress them. And so the other demigods get annoyed and they curse him to, you know, why should he be in this position? So he then takes birth as a, as a, you know, son of a maidservant. You know, no father. And then his mother dies also. So it kind of leaves him a bit alone. Right? You know.

Does that make sense? So this is the reality. We could say it should be this way, that way. It could be this way, it could be that way. But it doesn’t work that way. Modes of nature are modes of nature. They do what they do. So only by devotional service do you transcend those modes and move beyond them.

Does that make sense? Otherwise, why is it this, why is it this cycle, karma, why is it a cycle? Why isn’t it just a straight line that just keeps getting better and better?

You know. And then no one would say it doesn’t get better than this. Right? Because it would always get better. But when they say it doesn’t get better than this, that’s when it starts down, right? Because that’s the top, right? That it starts down again. So that means it goes up to a point, then becomes so proud and attached, then it goes down again. And then when it gets so terrible and disgusting, then they start becoming humble and surrendering, then it starts going up again.

So who is actually humble? Who actually has understanding and consciousness?

Only the devotee.

So they’re the only ones that can transcend this whole cycle.

Does that make any sense?

So like Brahma Loka, residents in Brahma Loka, they can transfer to the spiritual world after the inherition of Brahma Loka. So that means they go higher.

But they’re all yogis.

Right? And it also depends upon Brahma.

You know what I’m saying? His position.

So, but…

that realm is not specifically defined.

You know what I’m saying? Because Mahavishnu is also the spiritual world.

You know what I’m saying? But it says they may, but it doesn’t mean that they will.

Yeah.

So you can check, you can cross that one off your list.

Yes. Various ways to get back to Godhead without actually surrendering.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Pious credit. Yeah. Because the point is, pious credit means you live in the heavenly planet. It’s not that you live in a lotus stem and that it’s stuck in the mud down here. Right? So it means that time you wasn’t there. So then that’s when the Husha, I think, was brought.

But the point was, no, no, no. That was not for Vritrasura. That was for Vishvaru.

Because Vishvaru was his priest and he killed him. So that’s not proper. Now, Vritrasura, he’s supposed to kill him. But the point was, is Indra could have gotten more benefit from that pastime if he had had faith in Vishnu. Because the only reason he used the thunderbolt was because Vritrasura told him to. Right? Because otherwise, Vishnu had given him the thunderbolt and said, use this. But he didn’t have faith. He’d always used his club. So he, relied on his club instead of that. So then, Vritrasura caught that with his left hand.

So it was no big deal. And then took that and smacked Nairavati.

And so then, in doing that, then he dropped the thunderbolt. And so then Vritrasura told him, you know, what kind of devotee are you? You don’t have faith in Vishnu. He told you to use the thunderbolt. Now pick it up and use it.

So Vritrasura has full faith. So that’s why he went back to Ganga.

But Indra, he so-called won the battle and remained here. That’s called winning the battle, losing the war.

Due to his association with material nature, the soul follows the ways of life and meets good and evil amongst various species. Here, follows the ways of life. That means there’s various options and they generally take those different options and, you know, it’s pretty predictable.

Does that make sense?

And meets good and evil amongst various species because of what his choice is in the ways of life. Then he ends up with various species. According to the modes of nature, verses 20 and 22, although the spirit soul is higher than matter, he’s conditioned by it. Srila Prabhupada explains the reason. Actually, the living entity is originally the spiritual part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. But due to his rebellious nature, he is conditioned within the material nature. It really does not matter how these living entities or superior entities of the Supreme Lord have come in contact with material nature. The Supreme Personality of Godhead knows, however, how and why this actually took place.

We want to know how we got here. The mechanics of it. But the real point to know is the rebellious nature. That’s what God is. The mechanics of it is just like saying, how did I end up in my car out in the forest? So you could say, well, you know, the gas pedal was pushed, and the steering wheel was turned, and, you know, the pistons went up and down, and the camshaft went around, and the driveshaft did this, and, you know, like all this kind of jazz, and see the wheels of the bus go round and round. You know, all these different things you can do. And then you will think, now I know why I’m in the forest. No, you don’t have any idea at all. You’re in the forest because you drove there.

Right? So, therefore, the mechanics are useful in how to get out. Right? Because we still have that rebellious nature. So you reverse the mechanics in line with, you know, the practice of the devotion. In other words, try to reverse the mechanics as an offering to the Lord. Then we will practically move ourselves out. You know what I’m saying? Because the point is, let us say I’m in the forest, and I have to get out. What’s the important first thing I need to know? Which way is out from where you are? Not which road did I take to get in? Because there may be so many roads and so many turn offs. So you have to know where I am right now, and what do I do right now? Right? So you have to start the engine, turn the car around, and then go down the road. So that’s why this whole thing of trying to figure out how did I get here, that’s not going to help you get out. The Lord knows. You come to the liberated platform, then it’s obvious. But otherwise, it’s not so important.

Like that. The important thing to know is it’s the rebellious nature. Part and parcel of the Lord. We’re spiritual. We simply covered our spiritual nature. So then it’s just a matter of understanding this, that we endeavor to uncover.

In this section, living entities and superior entities, are they both referring to the human?

Where is that you say? It really doesn’t matter how these living entities or superior entities of the Supreme Lord have come in contact with material nature. Yeah. Here it is living and superior. Because living entities means in general, you could say, superior meaning either humans or in the way of the jiva itself, and that he’s the one who’s controlling material energy.

So it’s just making it clear, because that brings it in line with the presentation of the verses, how he’s superior to the material energy. Okay.

Talking about how to focus on how you got to a specific place, how does one apply introspection?

The introspection is on where I am now.

You know what I’m saying? Because if you understand where you are now, and how to get out, then as you go, it will become obvious.

You know what I’m saying? But otherwise, if you’re out in the forest on a dirt road, then knowing that Highway 93 is where you first turned off, what is he going to do for you? You know what I’m saying? You can’t make the connection.

So in that same way, is this where the limitation of devotees who get into the Jyotish, you know, the Jyotish nature, is that a limitation where they get too fixed up with how they got to a specific place? No, because Jyotish is not…

There’s a difference between trying to understand the particular subtleties of the… moving from the transcendental position to the material. Right? One can understand the direct of the rebellious nature. That’s easy to understand. But the other subtleties, then you’re dealing with that point which is dealing with the eternal and with the material energy. And that’s our confusion at the present. We can’t understand that the reason the pillar has any meaning is because of Krishna’s strength that’s in it. If that’s not how we view things, how are we going to be able to view the fall of the Jiva?

Right? You know what I’m saying? Which is even a little bit more having the overlap is even harder to see.

You know what I’m saying? So that is different from the sciences of this world that are defining how the material energy functions according to the Lord’s laws. And by following these laws, then you’re going to be able to either continue in your illusion and try to say by making these manipulations and everything will be nice or understanding how things are working in the position and then seeing how you can connect everything to the Lord. You know, so they’re different.

You know, it’s not that you can’t look back and see how you got there, but it’s too far back.

You know what I’m saying? You know, it’s one thing I’m standing in the room and then how did I get in here and look around and see a door. Okay, so then you figure I came in through that door, I can go out through the door. So that’s a bit obvious.

But we’re talking about unlimited lifetimes, so it’s a little bit too far to worry about.

Questioner’s question inaudible What element of earth are you talking about? No, no, but what is the element of the earth that you’re wondering about?

No, this is it. It means that Jambudvipa is the only place and then Bharata Khanda where that happens.

Yeah, that’s why all the pastimes, everything connects to here. It means, yeah, because this is the place, this is Punyabhumi, this is where you generate your pious activities.

Hmm? The only place we don’t take advantage of. Yeah, this is, you know, this is the illusion.

That’s why it’s saying it’s very, you know, all these things are very rare.

Questioner’s question inaudible Basically.

It said the odds, right, you know, because, you know, as a mathematician, you know, I said the odds, right? You know, like the calculation of life, you know, it’s ridiculously high, or let’s say low, the possibility of it happening. But it said that if you had a tortoise, a turtle sitting on the bottom of the ocean, somewhere, just in that ocean, and on the ocean somewhere on the top, on the waves, there is a piece of wood with a hole in it.

And so when it’s, and it’s moving around on the top of this whole ocean somewhere. And so the odds that the tortoise, the turtle, when it needs air, comes up to the surface and happens to stick its head through that hole in that piece of wood, that’s the odds of the living entity coming in contact with the ocean surface.

Right? So just like we think our control and manipulation’s material nature is very normal, and all that, and we don’t see Krishna in it. So in the same way as we take up devotional service, we take that there’s so many devotees that that’s normal, that’s ordinary. But, I mean, these are the reasons that you have, you know, people like Prabhupada’s godbrothers and that, saying he’s a shakti-deshavatar.

Because it just doesn’t happen.

You know what I’m saying? So that, you know, everywhere you go there’s books available, you know, that, you know, there’s thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of devotees. This is not the general case. This has been established by somebody very special.

Like that. But because it’s made so, we take it for granted. Just like you have the, um, one time in, I think it was like in the 80s or something, that in New York there was a, there was a, I don’t know if it came out on the radio or on the, you know, somehow or another it came out, that the two Rockefellers, the father and the son, happened to be in New York at the same time.

And the father was staying like in a, you know, how do you say, a good quality three-star hotel. And the son was staying in, you know, a top-rate five-star hotel. So the reporter was talking to the father.

And then he was asking him, why is it you’re staying, you’re the senior and you’re the richer one. But you’re staying in the three-star. And he’s the son and not quite as wealthy as you, though, you know, it’s just a matter of the degree of how stinky he is, right? And so he’s staying in the five-star. Why is that?

And then the father commented, he says, I made my money. He was born rich.

Right? You know what I’m saying? So, in other words, Prabhupada created this movement. We just happen to come along when it’s there. So we think it’s, you know, ordinary. So we’re like the spoiled kids. You know, devotional service, take it or leave it.

You know. Yeah, this is the value. But, you know, we see these great devotees, they know this specialness.

You know, even Chanakya, he says, you know, if there’s no devotees, there’s no temple like that, it’s not worth living in the place. You know, the devotees all the time will, you know, pack up, move out in the middle of, you know, Montana or Boulder. You know, somebody said nobody’s there.

You know what I’m saying? They think they’re getting away and this is a nice life. But, you know, Chanakya says, you know, if there’s no temples, there’s no preachers, it’s not like this, then it’s not worth living in the place.

Yeah.

Oh, excuse me, Maharaj. Something like, you know, in Bhagavatam, it says that Chitraketu Maharaj has like millions of wives. You know, is this some example? I think it’s only one. No, actually ten million. Yeah, ten million. Millions wives. So how could we, I mean, Krishna only has like 10,000, you know. No, he has 16,100 maids. So who’s considered more smart, Jiva or God?

God is. Yeah, so therefore he sticks to 16,100 maids.

But, I mean, like Chitraketu, how could he have so many millions of wives? So is this something to go on your list?

Is Chitraketu known for spiritual life before his son died? No. No. So it’s recommended in the Shastra, if you’re serious about spiritual life, you stick to one wife. Not that you can’t have many, but if you’re serious about spiritual life, you stick to one.

So we can take it he wasn’t so serious.

Why is the number too big?

See, why would you say the number’s too big? What’s the basis?

Are you thinking about this carefully? How close does a man like to be to a woman, if it’s possible? Right?

So is it space, the thing?

Is space the consideration for the man? Because you’re a man, so you’re thinking from the man’s point of view. Is space the consideration?

Okay, let’s try a different approach, right? Let us bring the the living condition in Hong Kong in comparison to the living condition in, let’s say, America. Okay? Let’s say you have, you know, a four bedroom house. You know, it’s got this living room, it’s this and that, and you know, huge place, big garage, two cars, you know, backyard. How many people live in that house in America? Four. Right? More than that, you know, it’s insane. How many people in Hong Kong would live in that? How many Chinese would be living in that house? Maybe three generations. Yeah, which may include like 30 people.

Right? So for an American, that 30 people would live in his four bedroom house is inconceivable.

So by the same logic, you understand?

What’s the difference? Why can’t the Americans live? Why are the Americans having problem with four people living in one house while the Chinese are not having much problem with 30? What’s the difference?

Tradition. Tradition. What’s in the tradition that makes it work? I mean, they like to stay together. Yes, so that means they understand relationships and what you have to do. It’s not about themselves, right? The point is you have this big huge house, four people. Each of the center of the house. How many centers can you have in one house? Right? One. So you have three extra. Right? But the Oriental, you have 30 people and so, you know, they amongst themselves, there’s only one. Right? So that’s going to be the senior most. You know, the grandmother, the grandfather, somebody like that. And so then it works. You understand? So the point is, if you understand how relationships work, then volume is not the problem.

So does that answer the question?

The soul and the super soul are eternal and changeless. The material nature is also eternal, but it undergoes vikara, transformation.

Although the conditioned soul remains unchanged because of ignorance, he identifies with the changes in the body. The soul reckons himself as the controller and enjoyer of the body, but in actuality, he is bound to suffer in it. Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport to verse 21, Once placed in some particular kind of body, he comes under the control of nature because the body, being matter, acts according to the laws of nature. At the same time, the living entity has no power to change that law. This is the point. The living entity is in the illusion, I will change the laws. But what do they use to change the laws? They use science, which is based on the laws.

And so, in actuality, they never change the laws. Right?

So, the living entity is eternal.

The material energy is also eternal, but it’s constantly transforming. Because the living entity identifies with the material energy, which is transforming through the modes of nature, he therefore comes under the control of the modes of nature. So that means if you don’t identify with the body, you don’t come under the modes of nature.

Right? So it’s that simple.

Unfortunately, we’re also that stubborn.

Or in the previous word, that rebellious. It takes a little while.

As soon as he is put into the body of a dog, he must act like a dog. He cannot act otherwise. Similarly, if the living entity is put into the body of a demigod, he must act according to his body. This is the law of nature.

The cause for this bondage and suffering is the addiction to a particular combination of the three modes of material nature. So long as this addiction persists, the soul must remain in the cycle of birth and death. To overcome the attachment to material existence, one should cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śrīla Baladeva Vidyabhūṣa explains in his commentary to verse 22, The beginningless jīva is contaminated by beginningless imprints in the form of karma. The jīva desiring enjoyable objects because of his being an enjoyer will take shelter of prakṛti equipped with the desirables which she offers to him until those imprints of karma are destroyed by devotee association.

With the destruction of impressions, he enjoys the happiness of the abode of the Lord. The śruti says, he attains all his desires with the omniscient Lord. Caitanya Upanishad 2.1 I wonder which one that is.

So that means that’s the third. Actually, Prabhupāda quotes this. It’s quoted by the Ācāryas a lot in Caitanya Upanishad.

Okay. So, the living entity is attached to a particular combination of the modes. It comes out, you know, as a nice house, a position, a vehicle, you know, a particular what they consider beauty or desirables, like that. It’s a particular combination. Because of that attachment, that’s why he remains. You remove that attachment, then one doesn’t have to be here. But the point is, only the devotee can remove that attachment.

Right? So that’s the point. So, by taking up the association of devotees, then you can destroy this attachment. That attachment is then based on the imprints of karma from time immemorial. Right? So only by devotee association, then the saṃskāras are purified. Right? Are removed. And not actual saṃskāras of the imprints of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Does that make sense? Yes. Previously it was explained how the jīva is exploiting the material nature. And the jīva is in the superior energy of the world. And here it’s mentioning that the jīva takes shelter of prakṛti. So generally the subordinate will take shelter of the superior. So that’s why there’s a problem.

Because now who’s in charge?

Material nature. But you think you’re in charge.

Okay. What would happen if you had two women?

One is putting themselves under the control of the other, but at the same time claiming to be in charge.

It wouldn’t work. So that’s material life.

You know what I’m saying? You know, because it’s either one’s in charge or the other’s in charge. But if it’s not clear, that’s when the problem is. Right? Two women meet. Then what’s the first thing to work out? Who’s in charge? Right? If that congenially works out, they have a relationship. If it doesn’t, they don’t.

You understand? Why do men not have to figure out who’s in charge to have a relationship?

Because men will base relationship generally on discussing the field of activities or performing a common activity that gets a particular result. So it’s just the efficiency of the field of activities and the efficiency of operating the field. Right? So then you’re not considering their experience.

You know what I’m saying? A woman does something because the experience is good. Experience is bad, tends to not do. The man will do something that’s a bad experience as long as he gets a good result.

You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So, unless the woman is really convinced about it, but it’s short. You know what I’m saying? She’ll get a piercing because it’s painful, but she can see the immediate result. It’ll increase her attractiveness.

So she’ll go through the austerity.

Men will take on long-term things like freeing your country from the invaders or stuff like that. Women, it’s like, who cares as long as our life goes without problem?

You know what I’m saying? Men, it’s like, we know our own liberty, our own self-determination. It’s kind of like, who cares? If there’s potatoes to eat and no one’s bothering you, what’s the problem?

A driver would be called to me.

Question. In the previous paragraph, it says that karma is destroyed by devotional association. Is that referring to that element you’re saying that we destroy the political consciousness? Yeah, because the point is, you’re removing the some scars by replacing with something better, right? One is attached, right? That’s the thing, addicted to a particular combination of three modes. So that specific addiction is based on the combination of previous impressions, right? So now if you get new impressions, right, and those give a better taste, why will you remain addicted to this other? So that’s why the association of devotees and involvement in, you know, as much as possible, direct devotional activities that do give a very strong taste, then that’s important, because if that’s there, then the inspiration to deal with the indirect and try to connect with Krishnamurti more there, because our addictions are in the indirect.

Does that make sense? You know, they’re in karma and yantra.

But by tasting a higher taste, you give up a lower.

So that’s the point, by replacing with that. So if we struggle with trying to remove the lower through various processes of simply trying to adjust our material situation, that’s very, very difficult, because you’re dealing with the force of the material energy responding to our previous actions, right? While if you are dealing with the devotional activities, you’re acting outside the purview of the material energy. So she has actually no influence over that. So you’re not trying to stop a negative. You’re trying to create a positive.

But in doing that, you have to be aware of what is the negative and, you know, how to purify that.

Because if you can just remain fully absorbed in direct activities, then that means naturally you’re not involved in improper activities.

But generally the situation one may be in is not always direct. So then if those situations are connected, then it works better.

Haribol?

Ha.

Bas. Ha, ha, ha.

Ha. Good. Barsakhlin.

Ki?

Oye, konto lo giyeche? Oye, konto lo chole aspe? Oye, konto lo chole aspe? O, o, cha. Ami ek tu pore, e, e, kon korbo, jy gas korbo ki yase? Ha, boki nko rida? Ha, ki kase? Ki, ki. Right.

So, in other words, therefore it becomes useful to take the indirect and connect it to the Loris, but then one must know the science. Right.

So then, with that combination of yama and niyama, that becomes very useful, but the focus is on what you should do as opposed to what you shouldn’t do, right, if that makes sense. You know, you have to know both, but the primary is what you should do and the secondary is what you shouldn’t do, because if you just don’t do certain activities, that doesn’t mean you’ll get devotion. You’ll get devotion from the direct activities, but the direct activities will be compromised because of our distraction or addiction to the indirect.

That’s what you meant by metaphysics from last year. Yes.

So it’s understood as it’s secondary, right. The difficulty is when you’re making a point, you always have to regularly refer it back to what you’re dealing with, you know, so the perspective is seen, because otherwise then it’s like that. Like now I’m making, it would sound like, oh, you don’t worry about all the restrictions, but yesterday it’s like, oh, you’re only worrying about this process. What about, you know, chanting Hare Krishna, you know what I’m saying? So the thing is, as you speak from one point or another, then the more, yeah, the better you can keep everybody in focus of what’s actually you’re talking about. So then they understand, okay, now we’re going to depth on this detail, you know, or that detail. But otherwise some people think that that’s actually the primary element, so it becomes a, that way also it can become a distraction. That’s why it said open before, is only the unalloyed devotees, they won’t get distracted. Right? Everybody else, then the problem is, is they will take something of karma and jnana, which is their conditioning, and then focus on that. Does that make sense?

The Supersoul is the transcendental enjoyer, the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as overseer and permitter in this body, verse twenty-three.

In this verse, the Lord establishes the difference between the soul and the Supersoul. The soul is bhokta, the maintainer, and the Supersoul is bhokta, the maintainer. The soul is conscious only of his body, but the Supersoul is conscious of all bodies. The individual soul cannot do anything without the sanction of the Supreme Soul. Srila Prabhupada describes their relationship in his Purport, verse twenty-three.

The fact is that every individual living entity is eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanction of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate nature. And because he has this tendency, he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. The Lord is always eager to take him back to the spiritual energy, but due to the minute independence the individual entity is continually rejecting the association of spiritual light. This misuse of independence is the cause of his material strife and the conditioned nature. The Lord, therefore, is always giving instruction from within and from without. From without He gives instructions, as stated in Bhagavad-gita, and from within He tries to convince the living entity that his activities in the material field are not conducive to real happiness.

Just give it up and turn your faith towards Me, then you will be happy, He says. Thus the intelligent person who places his faith in the Paramatma, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, begins to advance towards a blissful, eternal life of knowledge.

So the living entity is the, how do you say, the maintained, but the problem is, is they’re not, how do you say, they don’t interact very well with the person who’s maintaining them. Let’s say, you know, they’re independents, they’re rebellious, you know, it’s like a bunch of teenagers or something.

So, so, Krishna is, they’re naturally friends, they’re on the spiritual platform, but the living, and so Krishna’s always trying to create that environment. But the living entity, due to their minute independence, is always rejecting this, because they somehow never think they’re going to get more out of enjoying the material energy, due to this conditioning, unlimited conditioning.

And so then, so then the Lord is trying in various ways to get the living entity to appreciate this. So without the instructions, like the Bhagavad Gita, and from within the Supersoul is giving direction. So, if one acts in pure consciousness, then that is, connects you with the natural, pure intelligence.

Then it’s easy to understand the direction. As Prabhupada says, intelligence is the closest thing to the Supersoul.

Does that make sense? So in other words, there’s all those things that you, in your mind, are discussing that you know you should do, but because of our rebelliousness, we don’t. And then it doesn’t go right, like the intelligence told us it would turn out to be. But due to attachment, we keep doing that. So if we would just listen to that intelligence, that’s based on Guru Sadhu and Shastra, then we would find things would go a lot better. So the process is basically getting us to have this, what he says here. Thus the intelligent person who places his faith in the Paramatma, pre-personality of Godhead, begins to advance towards a blissful eternal life of knowledge. So, what intelligence, we function on that intelligence, right? If with the faith in the Supersoul that these directions of the intelligence, this is actually the thing, then things start to work very nicely.

Yes? Is there such a thing as an intuition?

Is there such a thing as intuition?

Just a sense of… So, what’s the point of the question?

Is intuition just a projection of the mind, or is intuition actually the Supersoul speaking?

The point is, is that, see you have the intelligence. So pure intelligence would be the closest thing. Intelligence is close to pure intelligence.

No? Right. And then intelligence is close to the mind, on the other side. So, just because you feel like it, so, but then you have to analyze why would you feel like that? But if you just leave it as a feeling, how do you know it’s not the mind? Because the mind is also… How do you have a conversation in your head? There’s only one of you. So who’s talking? The mind and? The intelligence. The intelligence. Right? Because one is like the feelings and the other is the logic. That’s why it’s such a natural fight, right?

And each one feels the other doesn’t understand.

Does that make sense? So, therefore one has to see it in line with Guru-Sadhana Shastra. So it’s in line with Guru-Sadhana Shastra and you feel that that’s what should be done, you know, so you call that intuition. Take it. But just because you feel like it doesn’t mean that that’s the Supersoul that’s telling you to do this.

You know what I’m saying? Because it could be the mind. So that’s why it says the intelligent person. It doesn’t say the sentimental person. You know what I’m saying?

It automatically comes.

Yeah, somehow. Anybody sat there in that chair?

No, I mean… Somebody just sat there in the chair and thought about it and therefore they automatically got it.

Right? You understand? What is the… Think about it. What is the law of attraction doing? What is happening? Why do you need the law of attraction?

You know what I’m saying? Why is it being presented? What’s wrong with the people? Does everybody, all people from all different groups of self-help, does everybody go to the law of attraction, you know, workshop?

It must be… It must be… This is the modes of nature.

We’re under attack.

So… Everybody’s going there. Right? Yes. So that means there are no other self -help processes.

It’s the only one, right?

One of the leading. What are the other leading ones?

Right? In other words, you’re going to have… What is the problem here? The problem with the persons who need the law of attraction is they don’t know what they want.

And because of that they’re not inspired.

But they basically are confident that they can do something. They can see the field. Well, they don’t see the field, but they have self-confidence. Right? They don’t lack self-confidence. So the point is, look around in the field that you’re in. What do you want to do with it? So then they start to contemplate the field, figure out what they want. That, then, what they figure out what they want, is then what you apply that law on. But the point is, if it’s just the law of attraction, why do they have to cultivate that you have to figure out what you want first? Because technically that’s a different process.

Because the law of attraction means you’re already attracted, so you just keep at it. Right? So what they’re trying to do is make you aware of the field so that you therefore have goals. And once those two are in place, then you’re inspired.

So actually that point is the third in the process. The third stage. But they make it as if it’s the only stage.

They don’t train you that you’re actually doing two other stages. And then you meditate upon it. What’s going to happen? Anything you meditate upon, you get attached to. Right? Because the law of attraction is you’re attracted to it, but it doesn’t mean that you’re attached to it. Once you get attached to it… Because if you’re attracted to it, do you do anything?

Do you do an activity?

Just by attraction.

Or by attachment. It’s just like, you know, the guy drives by in, you know, the latest Ferrari. And you look at it, wow, that’s pretty nice. So immediately you go out and buy one, right? Why? Because you’re only attracted.

So you buy one because you’re attached. That also they don’t tell you in the law of attraction. So they say it will automatically come. What actually will happen? No, because you contemplate on it, then you become attached to it. Right? That’s what Gita says. Contemplating the object in the sense of attachment. So then, once attachment is there, now what are you willing to do before you weren’t? You’re willing to work hard. So therefore, now because you’re willing to work, work generates the result. Thinking about the result doesn’t generate any result. It never has and never will. So you understand? In other words, the process is describing one aspect out of the whole thing. But if you concentrate on that and do the preliminaries, so in other words, you have to start it. And then by contemplating, you will automatically do the rest. But that’s why it may or may not work for that guy. But it doesn’t work necessarily for anybody else. Because you think, if I just sit here and think about it, it’ll come on its own. No, it’ll come on its own because you work for it. Opportunity is there every day. You’re not taking it. Why? Because you’re not attached. You’re not looking for it. But now that you know what you want, you’re attached to it. When the opportunity comes, you’ll take it. You understand? So it’s one process, but they focus there. What happens if you don’t have confidence?

Then that process is not going to work. They’re not going to go to that conference. They’re going to go to the rich dad, poor dad one. Because he’s telling you, you can do it. You’re the man. Hey, you can get in there. Whatever you want, you can get. That’s because these guys don’t have any confidence. So once they have the confidence, then what are they going to do? Then they’re going to look at the field. See the goals they could get. Get attracted. Get attached. Take the opportunity. Perform the activity. Get the result.

Now you have a guy there.

He’s there. He’s confident. He sees the field and all that. He sees all the opportunities, but he’s a bit bewildered. So what does he need to go through? He’s already attracted. He already is confident.

So he’s going to find this other thing to be stupid.

He needs to go to goal orientation. Right? Because he has so many things he wants, he doesn’t know how to prioritize. So the goal orientation will prioritize, and then say, then focus, and all that. Because he already sees the field, knows what he wants to get, and is willing to work.

But it’s the same process.

And then someone who has all that, but they’re not sure how to actually accomplish it. Then you have the ones that, the strategic planning.

You study the field, what you can get from the field, you know, and then what’s the plan to? Make it. Get it. Or start with what goals you want, so therefore look at your field, and then what you can do. Somehow they think these are two different approaches, but it’s one thing.

You understand? So there’s only one school of self-help. And that’s called Vedanta.

Because it deals with all that. It explains the field, who we are, what are results you can get, therefore what processes are there. You know? So all that. Is there anything connected to the Supersoul in this process? The Supersoul is who sanctions.

But you can only sanction things that, you know, are according to the rules. Right? Just like, let’s say, you want to build a house, right? And you have to give your plans to a particular, you know, board to sanction it. So will they sanction just anything? No, it has to be according to their laws. But if it’s according to their laws, they’ll sanction. Right?

But they’ll see that, you know, what’s right here, you know, or what’s wrong. So that’s the point. You want something, you deserve it, then the Lord sanctions it. You want it, you don’t deserve it, you won’t get it.

So the difficulty is all these are looking at ultimately gaining something. All these self-help schools, right? Because it’s called what? Self-improvement. You can’t improve if you don’t, how do you say, expand what you have.

Right? So that means ultimately they’re all goal-oriented. It’s just the approach that they take. But the point is, is the goal actually, the results are actually up to the Lord, not up to us. So if you understand that, then the process starts to work. Otherwise, then it doesn’t work. Right? You know what I’m saying? How many self-help books do you need if they work? One. One.

So, and the same author, after a few years, the next year comes out with another one that explains something else, right? You know, covering the seven, the seven, you know, habits of this and that. And then people are using it for 20 years and it doesn’t work. So then what does he do? The eighth habit. Right? Because, you know, with that eighth habit, then the other seven habits work. You know what I mean? You understand? So it’s just like that. It just goes on and on.

You know what I’m saying? They all come out with it. Because the point is, is that they see a principle, but then it doesn’t get everything working. So then they think about it more and come up with something further.

Does that make sense?

That’s it. Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. And then he came out with a sequel. Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. And teenagers are from Pluto. You know, so, you know, it’s just like that.

They just have to keep going and going because they don’t know.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, at least they’re doing some research. Yeah, at least they’re doing some research. But at the same point is, they’re doing all that work. And if they find that same amount of intelligence and research in Krishna consciousness, then they get eternal benefit. Because the point is, is something that is, the eternal nature is eternal. So basically speaking, that makes it unlimited. So how is the minute living entity in one lifetime going to figure it out?

You know what I’m saying? Because then he’s so much distracted by his own limitations.

Was it Michelangelo? No, Leonardo da Vinci. He already came out with the idea of airplanes and helicopters and all these things. But it was hundreds and hundreds of years before it could come into place. Why? Because of people, the way they view the world.

You know what I’m saying? So the point is, the living entity gets in the way of himself.

And even if he attains all these nice things, still, that only creates a situation. It doesn’t create a relationship.

You know what I’m saying? Your house is on one side of the Hudson. You know, Manhattan’s on the other. Okay? And… Did I get it right?

So then, you want to get to your office.

So now you have to get in your car and drive around.

That’s a problem. Or you go up to the local train thing, take the train up there. Or you take a bus. So all these things are a bit of a problem. So now you’ve worked it out that you take a helicopter.

Right? So you’re there in, you know, three minutes.

But does that improve your relationship with your family?

Or with your workers and your company?

No. But modern society, what will it say? Your life is perfect if you have this.

Right?

You’ll have so much more time. But more time for what? More time for doing what you need to do. So in other words, relationships are more important.

But they make it seem like you adjust the facility. So no matter how nicely you adjust the facility, it still comes down to how you deal in your relationships.

Huh?

No, you save time so that you can go to work to get the money to pay for the time savers.

That’s what they’re doing.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So that’s the whole point. So it’s like this. Somebody gets married to have a family, right? But the thing is, is then you have the washing machine that takes care of that, and the dishwasher does that, and, you know, so many other things, you know, that do all these different things, so you save time. So why do you want to save time? You know, to be with the family or to go to the spa? You know, and because you’re at the spa, then you have to hire somebody to babysit.

So what was the whole exercise for?

That’s the problem.

So it’s not that you couldn’t, but most people don’t. If you’re trying to save time, then they’ll also try to save time in relationships.

Because the whole point is, it means you need patience to deal with dead matter. You need more patience to deal with people. So if you don’t have the patience to deal with dead matter, which is a lesser thing, how are you going to have the patience to deal with people?

Whose dishes are you… It means, suppose you’re washing dishes, right? But if you think about it, whose dishes are you washing?

Your family’s dishes.

You know what I’m saying? So it’s a relationship, but we just see it as something to get done. So just, there’s dishes, but dishes aren’t connected to the family. So therefore, you get a machine, and the machine does it for you. But now, are you going to spend more time with the family? No, because you don’t see the dishes in the relationship with the family anyway.

You understand? It’s not that you couldn’t, but they won’t.

This is the trick. So therefore, then they have no patience for anything.

Fly around in a helicopter. Yeah, fly around in a helicopter. It looks like this, but never have any time for the family. They save so much time, but instead of wasting 45 minutes or an hour to drive over there, now they save it. It takes 10 minutes there to the office and back. But that 50 minutes, or that’s actually 100 minutes, doesn’t necessarily go to the family, which technically it could.

But they’ll use it to increase the facility more.

So that’s all. They’re just always increasing facility. The living entity is increasing the field, which is the body. That’s all they’re doing, without seeing the soul and without seeing the Supersoul. That’s the problem. The problem is not that they’re increasing the field. Right? So all these examples I’m giving are not to say one can’t. What I’m saying is that if you don’t see the soul and the Supersoul, you’ve got it. You’ve got it.

So the living… Yes?

Were you finished there? No, yeah, I was just going to go back into this. He has no power to change the law. I have a question regarding the Paramatman in the mind. Yes. A lot of times it’s easy to distinguish it, because you’ve got your proverbial devil and your proverbial angel. But what happens when the devil learns how to dress like an angel, when the mind starts… It wants you to fulfill your senses, but it sort of disguises it in a devotional sense. But that’s why you learn the Shastras, because then is it devotional? That’s why we’re going to this level of analyzation.

This means, is it actually devotional?

How is it devotional? Because the thing is, see, it means the higher activity dictates the lower. So activities in artha should be according to dharma, because dharma generates artha, and artha generates kama. So then, according to dharma, you should be performing activities within artha.

But if the consciousness is on the level of artha, then you’ll find people will quote dharma to get artha done. So if you don’t know the difference between the two, you will be bewildered.

It happens all the time. But that’s why in the scriptures these things are studied, and then you see. Because one of the major things that you see in the Artha Shastras, or the Niti Shastras, is that to accomplish Niti, most of the time they’re quoting dharma.

Because a religious person will respond to that, though you’re trying to get artha done. You’re not actually trying to get dharma done. You only use it. In other words, you play on their sentiments.

So that’s the point. So if you have understanding, then you can tell the difference.

That’s why it’s studied, so you can tell the difference. But if each of them are speaking in terms of dharma… But the point is, what is the goal that you want to get? The point is, even the devil’s talking, what do you want to get out of this?

You understand? What is it that you’re actually trying to obtain? Because it’s an experience you’re trying to obtain.

You know what I’m saying? So, what is it that’s going to make… That experience is then generated from a result, which is generated from an activity.

And that activity happens because of an identity. So what is it you actually want to get? If you’re going to analyze that, then the point is, that’s Krishna. He’s that quality. And then the forms that are there, that’s defined by Lakshmi. You know, that’s the laws. The laws are Lakshmi.

So then, defining that, then you’ll see what are the mechanics of it to actually make it work. Because then, even if it’s something on a lower level, it still has to follow the laws of God to work. Just that you’re narrowing it down smaller and smaller. In its application, it becomes very narrow. Right? So it may… You may get the work done, but it’s not… The results aren’t going to be good for the overall aspect of your life. So Dharma is working that it works on the overall aspect of your life.

You know what I’m saying? While mithi is just this situation, what I want, it’ll get it done.

Does that make sense? Yeah.

You have to see it. So then, which is the bigger picture? Then you can tell what’s better. And then you have Krishna consciousness.

Because the bigger picture means adjusting your life in such a way to be more Krishna conscious.

But you have to know how to apply Krishna consciousness in all situations to be able to appreciate it.

Does that make sense? Yeah. I think it’s just… Sometimes it seems to be difficult when we’ll be presented with a situation that we have to either accept or reject. And we want to accept it or reject it in terms of whether it’s favorable for our devotional service or not. We can’t determine whether it’s a test.

Everything is a test.

Everything is a test and everything is devotional service.

The point is there’s no situation that is not engageable.

So the point is it’s just a matter of what will it gain by taking this one option? What is the reason for it?

It’s just like… He had the question before about how is it… Chitra Ketu is having ten million wives. So we’re going down that path. Then I was going to come at it like on I would normally to a Westerner. But then I thought, no, let me just take it a step further. Ask him what is the actual problem? Because for the Westerner it would be how… It’s hard enough dealing with one wife. How does he deal with so many? But that wasn’t his question. His question… Because for him as an Asian that’s generally not the problem. The problem is how do you stuff so many people in one place? Right? You know what I’m saying? You know what I’m saying? Because in Hong Kong the problem is not relationships. The problem is space. While in Europe the problem is not space. It’s relationships.

You know what I’m saying? So then by asking that then you see what is actually the objective. Then you see what is the validity of one or the other. Which path to take. So it’s our consciousness behind why we’re accepting something. Why are you? Why? Because otherwise what is it going to get you?

You know, like that.

Verse 24 describes the results of understanding sambandha -jnana the relationship between citta, acitta and isvara. Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport clear understanding of material nature the super-soul the individual soul and their interrelation makes one eligible to become liberated and turn to the spiritual atmosphere without being forced to return to this material nature. Now there he’s taking it a step further.

So here he’s saying return to the spiritual atmosphere and then to not being forced to return. So the only way to not be forced to return is if you have a relationship with Krsna. Right? So then here is that by understanding citta, acitta, isvara the main function is it will liberate you from the material entanglement. Because then you understand things as they are. Sambandha-jnana.

But at the same time only the devotee actually can understand it. So that means it has to be seen in the context of devotional service. In context of relationship with the Lord. Right? Then it has validity. So that will bring one to the turn become liberated and turn to the spiritual atmosphere. Right? So then because the spiritual atmosphere is actually the relationship with the living entities of Krsna. Right? It’s not the Brahman. That’s the liberated part. To become liberated. That’s the Brahman part. And turn to the spiritual atmosphere. That’s the internal potency. Right? And without being forced to return to this material nature. So then he sees that favorably. Right? That’s what he wants. So therefore he’ll develop those relationships. Hmm.

Verses 25 to 26 describe alternative methods for obtaining the Supersoul. Some proceed them through meditation. Others through the cultivation of knowledge. Still others by working without fruit of desires. Right? So now we’ve gone through karma, jnana and yoga. There are others who although not conversant in spiritual knowledge begin to worship Krsna upon hearing about Him. They also transcend the path of birth and death. So the karma, jnana and yogi and then those who just hear about Krsna and just engage directly in that way.

Does that make sense? So all these can start off. But ultimately all have to come up to worshiping the Lord. So some of them are inspired through their work. Some through their knowledge. Some through meditation. And some just by hearing them directly start worshiping. Right? So the other three are to bring you to that point.

In verse 25 meditation refers to astanga-yoga with cultivation of knowledge as a secondary element. Sankhyena refers to the method of Sankhya with meditation as a secondary elephant. Secondary elephant. Secondary elephant. Yes. Meditation is the secondary elephant.

Working without fruit of desires refers to nice karma with cultivation of knowledge and meditation as secondary elements. Even those who are unable to follow any of those methods can still attain the Lord by the process of submissive hearing from the pure devotee.

So as we notice here in line with your point is that depending upon where you make primary all the others become secondary. Right? So all elephants can be primary or secondary. Right? But even if one doesn’t work on that just by submissive hearing the process will work. And you notice there there’s no elephants.

Srila Prabhupada explains this verse is particularly applicable to modern society because in modern society there is practically no education in spiritual matters. In this verse particularly the process of hearing is strongly recommended and it is very appropriate although the common man is often not as capable as so-called philosophers. Faithful hearing from an authoritative person will help one transcend this material existence and go back to Godhead, back to home.

Whatever one sees in existence both moving and non-moving is a combination of matter and spirit. So this element of the modern society because we see is the modern doesn’t have these elements. There is no philosophy. There isn’t any. The common man doesn’t have. Well, if you go into a non, what we’d say, modern there’s a little bit more idea of philosophy or faith or culture. Right? It’s much more common. But you don’t have it in the modern. Unfortunately, the modern is having influence on the rest of the cultures of the world. So slowly, slowly they take on that lack of spiritual understanding also.

So it’s very… Yes.

So are you saying that the real agents of Kali is the Western world?

I mean, there’s a few other how you say ethnic groups who would have that concept.

So the point is because of their particular attachment and arrogance and all this then they’re somehow able to bewilder all the other. They’re bewildered and they’re effective.

It’s like since you have this thing in between. The Vedic culture you know that you’re only an instrument but at the same time is all the scripture points out the need to be active because it’s through activity that results are gained. So there is an understanding the philosophy there is that faith. Right? But action is there. Right? Then, and then modern culture then they don’t have that faith but action is there. Right? So in the Vedic they have, yeah. Then you have in between those cultures that are not working on the Vedic platform and are not working on the modern platform. So they have faith but they don’t have endeavor.

Therefore they don’t have material results. So because it’s not being presented how to gain material results through having philosophy that that’s what’s missing. It’s considered the faith is getting in the way and the culture. Therefore if you just focus on endeavor and results then that will be the satisfaction. So that’s why the modern culture basically wins. And unfortunately the devotees tend to be influenced by that concept.

Because I’m saying for those who get worried about you know being pukka and professional and their dealings probably nine out of ten or maybe even higher ninety-nine out of you know a hundred or nine thousand nine hundred ninety-nine out of a thousand you know like this we can keep going. Then it will be these self-help books these will give us the direction. Basically no one will say Vedanta will give you the direction. You’ll be successful from Vedanta not from these guys.

You know what I’m saying? So they’re actually going to there. So when they do add when they do add the sentiment or the religious aspect or that sentimental social aspect they never quite get to the Vedic. It’s much easier to accept something else. You know what I’m saying? Take up you know it’s like you know you get into all this new age kind of stuff. So if you’re in England that’s following the Wiccans or the Warlocks. You know like in America you’re following the you know the Red Indians and stuff. Or you know maybe the Buddhists or you know what I’m saying? So the devotee will more easily take that than they will actually our own culture.

Yes because they want to get what they want their cake and to eat it. We want to maintain a rebelliousness again. What it means let us say in Europe what is the means if you take the ultimate means like the perfection of the how you say successful man. What would that look like?

Yes. But I mean what would be his nature? How did he get there?

But he got ahead. But how did he get ahead?

But how did he step over their heads? Working hard. He followed the system. He was more focused, more intelligent, more determined than anybody else. And therefore he got there.

And is he cultured?

Yes or no? Means would he be in continental Europe? Would he consider the top guy? You know would he dress nicely? Would he talk nicely? Would he you know? Yes he would be. But now take the America. How did the top guy get there? Through following the system? No the maverick. He just worked it out himself.

You know what I’m saying? Means like this. Take the European. You know like this. James Bond. Where did he go to school? He went to Egypt. Right? He was trained. He went through the whole different thing. But he was clever and outstanding. Therefore he is who he is. So he went through the whole system. Like that. But the American guy. He doesn’t know anything. He’s the jerk. He’s the nerd. He doesn’t know anything. He can’t even you know blow his nose without you know hurting himself. Right? But then something happens because the bad guys have his girlfriend. Then he turns into you know something you know like Stallone and the Terminators would be jealous of. But how? Simply because he wanted to. And that’s what makes Hollywood great. Right? You understand?

So it’s just because you design it happened.

So but if you look at it why have that mentality? Why does that work so perfectly?

It can only work if you don’t have any philosophy. Because you think just because I want it I get it.

The law of attraction.

I want it. And so if I go out there and buy those Nike shoes then my life’s perfect.

Right? You know I have this. I have that. Then it’s perfect. But is it? No you have if you have something to talk about you know you’ve got an iPhone he’s got an iPhone so he can sit down and talk about iPhones and all those guys are go-getters. So you can go on like that. But so therefore your friendship is based on an iPhone. Do you have an actual relationship? No. It’s based around the phone. You don’t have the phone you don’t have the relationship.

Do you understand? So it works really good.

So that’s the concept. That’s the thing. You can do that. You can be like that. But if you look at it in reality who are the guys that are actually controlling America?

Right? Guys from New England that went to the right schools born in good families followed all the rules and that and became better at it than anybody else. Just like the Europeans.

But the common person is not like that so you project the maverick and then hey everybody’s fired up. Anyone can become president. Yes, anybody can become president.

As long as you’re from New Hampshire.

Or Texas. Yeah, or Texas. Because everything is bigger than Texas. Right.

Okay, we’ll move on. Okay, so whatever one sees so the whole point is is that the devotee transcends because he’s working on the transcendental platform. He’s hearing from devotees so he’s transcendentally situated. The other ones then are able to take these other processes because they have some qualification in them. They are pious and can do good work. They are intelligent, they can do this. They are focused and they can meditate. So then from there they could then through a very lengthy process know the Supersoul. But Krishna’s already pointed out just hearing, that’s the best. But the point is is because we do still have these elements the mind is there, the intelligence is there the body is there so they can be engaged through these other three. So ultimately what you’re taking is is that you have this fourth one where the devotional process of hearing and chanting is the prominent in Karma, Jnana and Yoga, the second day.

But you can only do that if you can analyze what’s Karma, Jnana and Yoga in devotional service. Then you can put it into proper perspective.

Verses 28 to 35 28 One who sees the Supersoul accompanying the individual soul in all bodies and who understands that neither the soul nor the Supersoul within the destructible body is ever destroyed actually sees. One who sees the Supersoul equally present everywhere in every living being does not degrade himself by his mind. Thus he approaches the transcendental destination.

You won’t degrade yourself because you don’t see things materially. So therefore there’s nothing you’re attached to and that then flavors your endeavor.

One who can see that all activities are performed by the body like here, we have to develop good qualities but how are you going to develop them? You’re going to develop them by seeing the Supersoul in every body. Right?

Not the my body. The Supersoul is everybody. It’s everybody in every body. So then then it was earlier in the chapter that they’re all part and parcels of the Lord so there’s a non-difference. Actually no, that was what Bhagavatam that was what Kubera was pointing out. There’s a non-difference because they’re all part of the Lord. Right?

So then why would you behave badly with them? Or why would you and they’re not actually the body. They’re separate. Right? If you see the Supersoul you can see the soul. Right? So then you know that the knowers are different from the field. So then in the field they’re only an instrument. So that means they’re not actually the cause of your reaction. So why would you get upset with them?

You understand? So this is the real process of developing good qualities.

The other processes actually don’t really work. You get them temporarily. If the soul is eternal and he could do eternal work and get eternal results, why would the soul do temporary work and get temporary results? Because temporary for someone who’s eternal always is a problem.

Right? It’s always a problem.

When you can see that all activities are performed by the body which is created of material energy and sees that the self does nothing actually sees. Right? So does nothing means the other person didn’t create that problem for you. And you didn’t create your benefit.

Right? When a sensible man ceases to see different identities due to different material bodies. Right? That’s not the reason for different identities. Each soul is unique in their relationship with the Lord. That’s the reason of unique identities. Not because of their body. Body is just dead matter.

It’s also said that all the souls are identical. They’re all identical. But that means that they have the same qualities and everything. Yes, same property. Right? The satchitananda is the same satchitananda. And the volume of it is the same. But as an individual, what way they like to relate to Krishna that’s unique. There’s no two souls that are the same. Right? They’re different.

So that’s the reason of difference. Not the body.

Those with the vision of eternity can see that the imperishable soul is transcendental, eternal, and beyond the modes of nature. Despite contact with the material body, oh Arjuna, the soul neither does anything, nor is entangled.

Because it’s his desire, law of attraction, that then the modes of nature act, the super soul sanctions, and then they carry it out and you get the result. So that’s the place where you’re not doing anything and it’s coming. But for their system to work, you actually have to get off their backside.

You understand? So in other words, what they’re trying to get at is our philosophy. This is the law of attraction philosophy right there. Does that make sense? But the problem is it’s not seen in its completeness. So you could use that and see the complete picture and go back to Godhead. But instead, they’ll use that and have some inspiration that they may get what they want, but still never get it. You know what I’m saying? Because otherwise you’re sitting there and going, I’m a good person. I have nice relationships with people. Everybody likes me. I can move around and be comfortable with everybody. I’m successful. My children love me. I have a position in society and I respect others and they respect me. Am I going down the right track? Yes, okay. So now, okay, great, so that’s what I want, but the point is when I talk about that long enough, if I have the determination which they don’t also teach you, then the point is then I’ll say, okay, well, how do I become a nice person? But that they don’t teach you. How am I going to be successful? That they don’t teach you. You understand? So this is the shortcoming.

It only shows you part of it. It doesn’t show you the whole thing. Well, that just showed you the whole thing. You understand, you’re not the doer so that means you’re only an instrument. So results happen because of the work, but you can only be an instrument in the work. So if you want to be connected to those results, you have to be an instrument in the work that’s already going on.

So then that establishes who you are. You know, you’re the soul, you’re not the body. So still work has to be done and the proper consciousness has to be there. So does it make things happen easier, I mean, if we have those… It will for someone who doesn’t have devotional service. You know, in other words, any of these processes, you know, world religions, philosophies, processes, where they’re understanding some kind of higher principles, laws, connection with other people, you know, anything like this, it’s an improvement over being a self -centered, you know… Yeah.

Does that make sense? So if someone’s in the new age, someone’s into religion, someone’s into this, that, great, that’s better than just being, you know, a muda.

But for a devotee, these aren’t that progressive.

Because if you can see, oh, there’s something there, so where’s that in their philosophy? And then take it from there. Then you get the whole picture. But if you take that’s there, then what happens? Then you take on their fragrance. Because then you’re working with these impressions. Because whose impressions are you working with? You know, Proctor and all these guys, that’s whose impressions you’re working with. And what is their impressions? Based on material energy. So that association, just like association with devotees will change the impressions and take you back to Godhead. By them, it’ll change your impressions and take you deeper in. Right?

In other words, if you’re dealing with material energy, can’t get any results out of it, how entangled are you?

Right? But if you can deal with material energy and get great results, you’re more entangled.

So, the Vedic is how you can not be entangled, but still, if you want, get great results. But the point is, you can do this and just go back to Godhead. Don’t worry about great results. But if you want to take that side thing of endeavoring for great results, you can do that also. You know what I’m saying?

So, in other words, if you want to, on the side, you know, the family life and all those different things that go with it, you can get that. But it’s based on the primary, which is the devotional. Because that’s actually what’s getting things. Because it’s Krishna’s nature, it’s Krishna’s laws. But if on the side you want this, hey, you can have it.

You know what I’m saying? It’s not a problem.

What did we…

Oh, okay. So we’ll just finish these verses and then we’ll stop. The sky, due to its subtle nature, does not mix with anything, although it is all -pervading. Similarly, the soul situated in Brahman, Brahman vision, does not mix with the body, though situated in that body. Right? Air is mixed with things, but ether is not mixed with anything. It’s the space in which everything mixes. So it says here, Brahman vision. So Krishna’s mentioning this here. So we’ve been discussing all these things to understand that Brahman understanding. He says if you’re there, then you don’t mix with the body. So you’re not going to be entangled by that. So if that’s there, then it’s so much easier to focus on Krishna as a person in that devotional activity. In other words, one will say, oh, but why should we have this vision? You know, we’re supposed to be devotional. Yes, but you’re taking devotional and non-Brahman vision. Why not take devotional and Brahman vision? Since you’re going to have, in a conditioned state, another vision anyway. Why not take a superior one than an inferior one?

O son of Bharata, as the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity with one within the body.

Okay. O son of Bharata, as the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire body by consciousness.

Those who see with eyes of knowledge the difference between the body and the knower of the body and can also understand the process of liberation from bondage in material nature, attain to the supreme goal. So the supreme goal here, Krishna has defined, is devotional service.

So, so, he’s basically saying it’s seeing it this way and it’s very good. But, he’s saying, but the point is, even if you can’t, just by hearing from devotees about Krishna and having that kind of faith and continually doing that, one will advance. So that’s the great part about it. So when he says, well, devotees are advancing without this. Yes, they are. Why? Because they follow the process. They don’t follow that process of hearing and chanting. Then they won’t. Right? Does that make sense? And then those who only cultivate this knowledge but don’t associate and hear and chant, then also don’t. So when the two are combined, that works very nicely. But of the two, better they’re hearing and chanting.

So, so, so hearing and chanting should be inclusive of those, you know, Brahman realization or any kind? No, it stands on its own. Brahman realization should be inclusive of hearing and chanting. The primary doesn’t depend upon the secondary, but the secondary depends upon the primary. So the secondary should be seen in light of the primary. But the primary stands on its own.

Does that make sense?

So chanting the holy name stands on its own. That could be done, but because of our conditioning, we tend not to be inclined in that direction. Therefore, we take the conditioning, which is going to be in karmajnana yoga, and then try to connect that. But it’s always secondary to the primary. Yes.

So it’s a filler part. It’s a filler from our part. It’s a filler because that’s what we want. Right? The kid wants candy. You actually need candy. No, but the kid wants it. Therefore, in a regulated way, you give him some candy. Right? But along with the candy goes brushing your teeth. You know, so all the, how you say, the yamas and niyamas are there.

So it’s because they require it. Therefore, it’s there. Otherwise, it’s not specifically required.

Because what’s required is to act on the transcendental platform. The transcendental platform already includes all those in the natural position. In other words, one’s acting according to one’s nature. You should act according to your actual nature, not according to your conditioned nature.

So this is what the science to be able to tell the difference.

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