Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #40

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #40

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Today, we are going to discuss the topic of the Bhagavad-gītā, that is, the Bhagavad -gītā of the Bhagavad-gītā, that is, the Bhagavad-gītā of the Bhagavad-gītā.

So, three, those whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, mayāyāpṛta-jñāna.

The next class of duskṛti is called mayāyāpṛta -jñāna, or those persons whose erudite knowledge has been nullified by the influence of illusory material energy. They are mostly very learned fellows, great philosophers, poets, literati, scientists, etc. But the illusory energy misguides them, and therefore they disobey the Supreme Lord. There are a great number of mayāyāpṛta-jñāna at the present moment, even amongst the scholars of the Bhagavad-gītā.

In the Gītā, in plain and simple language, it is stated that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is none equal to or greater than Him. He is mentioned as the father, Brahmā, the original father of all human beings. In fact, Śrī Kṛṣṇa is said to be not only the father Brahmā, but also the father of all species of life. He is the root of the impersonal Brahman and Paramātmā.

The Supersoul in every entity is His plenary portion. He is the fountainhead of everything, and everyone is advised to surrender unto His lotus feet. Despite all these clear statements, the mayāyāpṛta-jñāna deride the Personality of the Supreme Lord and consider Him merely another human being. They do not know that the blessed form of human life is designed after the eternal and transcendental future of the Supreme Lord. All the unauthorized interpretations of the Gītā by the class of mayāyāpṛta-jñāna, outside the purview of the paramparā system, are so many stumbling blocks on the path of spiritual understanding. The deluded interpreters do not surrender unto the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, nor do they teach others to follow the principle.” So, basically, those who are very intelligent, you know, very studious scholarly, but their knowledge doesn’t result or end in understanding the Supreme Lord, you know, and especially those that take them away from that, then these are the mayāyāpṛta -jñāna, right? They’re very intelligent, you know, generally speaking, but the problem is, is they get distracted by the material energy. So the conclusion is not that Kṛṣṇa is God and they should surrender. So this is the point. These four persons don’t surrender. That’s their, that’s how you define them. The ones that do define, then that’s a different definition. But these are, they don’t surrender. That’s the point.

So, you know, so the, the, the mudhās, they’re just in ignorance, so they don’t even know that there’s some concept of surrendering at all. They just think their material day-to-day life is just all there is, right? And the nārādhamas, they learn about the actual spiritual, they’re not interested. The mayāyāpṛta-jñānas, they’re dealing in the knowledge that could bring to that, but they don’t actually understand its devotional nature or they don’t understand the Lord, so they don’t surrender.

4. Those of demoniac principles. Asurambhavam āśritāḥ. Another class of men who do not surrender to Lord Kṛṣṇa are the demons, those who are staunchly inimical to Him. Famous and powerful demon kings like Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Jarāsandha and Kaṁsa acquired many mystic powers through learning and severe austerities. But because they always challenge the various incarnations of the Supreme Lord, such as Rāma, Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, Lord Viṣṇu and Lord Kṛṣṇa, they are known as demons. Often the demons do not lack education or intelligence, but because of their fiendish mentality towards the Supreme Lord, their learning and brain capacity come to naught. Their abilities being fully in the grip of material energy are ultimately taken from them. The reason for the demons’ failure has been stated earlier. If one does not surrender to Lord Kṛṣṇa, it is impossible to surmount the material nature. It’s material energy. It’s hers. You have some of it. At some point you have to give it back. It’s just the way it works. But if you’re doing things in connection with Kṛṣṇa, then that’s never lost because Kṛṣṇa is eternal. That manifestation is eternal, so that will always be there. But the material energy, it’s temporary manifestation. So when it’s time to go, then it’s the way it works.

So here we see is they know about Kṛṣṇa, they know about Viṣṇu, and they’re inimical. Right? So Nārādhama, he’s just not interested.

Right? The demon is then, you know, specifically against. Right? Then they’re… You see that? So it means you have a more aggressive and less. Then those who have no knowledge and no understanding and just perfectly absorb the material energy, the mūḍhas, and then those who have knowledge about the material energy and all that but still don’t understand the Supreme Lord. Right? So two basically on the quality of knowledge and two upon their, you know, how you say, perspective on how they view their relationship with the Lord. Right?

Śrīla Bhāladeva Bhūṣa describes the Asura-bhāva -asrita as follows, quote, Under the influence of māyā, others take shelter of the demoniac mentality and propound the theory of an entity which is consciousness itself. Without qualities, form, activities or thoughts, with their arrows these demons pierce my body, which gives everyone else bliss. Similarly, these persons try to break my body using logic, with statements such as, God has no qualities, even though my body is famous in the scriptures as being eternal and conscious. The manifestation of such intelligence is caused by māyā.

So here it’s like they’re aggressively against. Right? So then we can see is that if their, if their, their just illusion, in other words their knowledge is, doesn’t conclude in the Supreme Lord, then that’s māyāya-pratyajñāna, the one that’s used specifically against the Lord. Right? Because it says that much of the time they do not, often the demons don’t lack education or intelligence. Right? So then there is that element of the māyā-pratyajñāna. Right? But then they’re specifically aimed against the Lord. Right? They’re trying to say the Lord has no form, He has no qualities or He doesn’t exist, or like this. So it’s specifically against. Right? You know, atheist means He’s against theism. Right? It doesn’t stand on its own. Right? Means, means, theism is just, it just stands on its own. You know, it’s not called anti-atheism. Right? You know, it’s theism. So it stands there because there’s that element of, of support of the Lord. While atheism, that means it’s against the Lord, against theistic understanding, the theistic interpretation.

Right? So these demoniac persons, they say all these things against the Lord and it brings others. They think, oh yes, this is very intelligent, very this, that. So it brings them happiness. But it’s very, you know, annoying to the Lord. Right? Because it’s not like, you know, He’s in everybody’s heart, so He’s there when they deal with all this stuff.

On the other hand, four kinds of persons, pious persons, who surrender to Kṛṣṇa are stated in verse sixteen. They are distressed. Exemplified, oh, this one thing. In the demons, you see, is that also just on the universal level, there’s two general classes, the daityas and the dhanavas. So the daityas are generally these, you know, intelligent, educated, you know, so-called cultured, like that. And then they’re against the Supreme Lord. While the dhanavas are generally a little bit more, you know, how you say, down-home, you know, how you say, the paesanos of the, you know, demoniac group. Does that make sense? It doesn’t make sense.

They are the distressed, exemplified by Gajendra, the inquisitive, exemplified by Saunaka, and one who desires wealth, exemplified by Dhruva Mahārāja, and the seeker of knowledge of the Absolute, exemplified by Sukadeva Gosvāmī.

According to Śrīla Baladeva Vidyā-bhūṣaṁ, the inquisitive, jijñāsura, is placed between the distressed, artha, and the desire of wealth, arthārthi. Because the artha and arthārthi must become curious about Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, the jijñāsura, in order to make further spiritual advancement. Śrīla Prabhupāda describes the jijñāsura as follows, you understand, is that, in other words, the artha -arthārthi, then they’re approaching the Lord for, because of distress or, or need of wealth, right? So there’s some material disturbance, they want it removed. But now, once they come and contact, that’s removed, for them to make further advancement, then they have to at least come to that element of jijñāsura, where they’re interested, what’s going on? Why is this? Why does this work? You know, who is this Lord? Like that. Then they’ll make further advancement. So he places them in, in between, like that. So, but, because then, in between, but then the other thing is the, I see.

Okay. Then, then that brings them to the jñāni, right? Because the jñāni means someone who actually wants to know the Lord. He’s not just inquisitive, he wants to know the Lord, right? So between the artha-arthārthi, then you have the jijñāsura, right? Because they have to come to that to get there.

Innocent inquiries are known as jijñāsura. Those who are inquisitive, these innocent inquirers are society’s hope for the future. Most intelligent and innocent young children are inquisitive. They question their parents about many things and remember the answers. When these bright young boys and girls receive proper guidance from parents and teachers who can lucidly answer their queries, they easily understand each point and gradually develop fine brains. From among these intelligent souls, those who are especially pious begin to keenly inquire about God and other spiritual topics. Others who pursue in noble material knowledge cannot become successful in life and end up beating the chaff. Understand chaff? Means when you have, let’s say you have rice, right? So there’s the grain and then there’s like the husk. So when you, when you’ve already husked it and all there is is the husk, if you beat that, you won’t get any more rice. So these people who have this just, you know, how you say, it says ignoble, what, how do you say it? Ignoble, ignoble, ignoble material knowledge. Then that means it’s material knowledge that’s not connected to the Lord. So as we were saying, it’s paravidya and avidya. It’s the same thing. If it’s connected to the Lord, connected to paravidya or transcendental knowledge, then it’s called aparavidya. It’s not paravidya, but it’s connected to it. But avidya means it’s not connected to para. So here the ignoble means it’s not, it has no connection to the Lord. They have all this knowledge, but it doesn’t end up in it. So it ends up like mayayapratijana, right? So much knowledge, but from that knowledge they can’t see the Supreme Lord. Aparavidya means all these branches of scientific knowledge define the Lord also, because it’s all His creation. It’s coming from Him. So you’re defining Ayurveda, how it works, but it’s still coming from Him.

It’s still based on the same thing. Medicine, the balance of the mucus, bile, and air, right? So there’s still going to be mucus is going to be ignorance. Bile is going to be passion, and air is going to be goodness. So it’s all based on the same thing, right? So it’ll work in the same way, but just as applied in health. So if you can’t see that, that means you haven’t understood. Then your knowledge has been stolen, right?

So those who only go after that, pursue that and say, this will make life successful, great. But if you don’t connect it to Krsna, then life is not so successful.

Those who are inquisitive about the Self and the Absolute Truth, Brahman, quickly surrender to Lord Krsna and His devotees. Such surrender proves their good measure of piety brought over from their previous births. Beginning with fundamental inquires about Brahman, they swiftly become elevated, understand the statement of Lord Krsna in Bhagavad-gita, 14.27, that He is the basis of the impersonal Brahman, and begin to worship Him. So by nature, anyway, a little bit intelligent from the youth, they innocently inquire about everything. So now if the teachers properly answer these questions, their parents and teachers, then it cultivates this inquisitive element, and they learn so much, it develops their brain. So that means, one, is that the inquisitiveness was being dealt with properly, so it’s cultivated.

But that also means that it’s cultivated in connection to the Supreme Lord. So you see what is the material, how it functions, it’s answered, at the same time you see its connection to the Lord. So this way the inquisitive naturally will progress. And at some point, when all the, you know, the basic material elements are, you know, satisfied, then they’re going to be, as maturity comes, more inquisitiveness, more inquisitiveness, about the Supreme Lord, you understand? So this also shows that this element of cultivating the aspect of jijnasu, you know, already starts with the teachers and parents, right? When the kids are small, they ask a million questions, they want to know everything. So you answer that, then it develops their intelligence, right? So so many parents, they want their kids to be intelligent in this, but they don’t want to answer the questions, so how is that going to work? It’s like saying, oh we want them to be healthy and strong, but you won’t feed them, you know? So it’s not really going to work, right? So it’s very important, this element of answering the questions, right? It may drive you nuts, but hey, that’s what parenthood is for, right? Things are going along and quite boring, so therefore you have children just to, you know, spice things up, right? So, okay.

The first three categories, artha, jijnasa and artharti, are sakhama devotees, right? The fourth one, the jnani, is a niskama devotee, because he does not have material desires, okay? And then, according to the note, according to Srila Viswamitra Cakravarti Thakura, verse 16 describes three types of kama-misrabhaktas, artha, jijnasa, artharti, and a jnana-misrabhakta, the jnani. The jnani is defined as a sannyasi with pure heart who worships the Lord with devotion without material desire, okay? In this definition, the jnani does not have a desire for liberation. If he’s free from a desire for liberation, then what is the influence of jnana over him, right? So, in other words, we might say, well, it’s a jnana-misra, but here, it means that the jnana, the knowledge is the element here. So here, it’s being used in the thing, you know, also jnana yoga. So you could say it’s, you know, bhakti mixed with the jnana, because that’s prominent, that knowledge, trying to understand and everything like this. Devotion technically means it’s just the natural flow of affection between the lover and the beloved, you understand? So knowledge is a part of it. So that means it’s mixed with that, right? Does that make sense? So you have that element on the subtle, so like this.

Because also, Viswanath also defines, he’s the one that defines that bhakti starts at prema, right? Before that, it’s sadhana, like that. So he’s just, he’s, what Viswanath points out is a very, very clear exacting line. So it’s, you know, exactly where everybody stands. But it’s supposed to be taken in an inspirational way. So here, when he’s saying the jnana-misra, it’s not a problem. It’s not taken in a negative connotation, right? Because you can see the environment. But in other connotations, it may be seen as a negative, right? Somebody’s too distracted by knowledge, too distracted by idea for liberation, like that. I mean, it’s not so much liberation, just wanting to get out of the material world, right? You know, if you want to go back to Godhead, of course, because that gets you out of the material world, you know? Does that make sense? So if you say that, it would be the jnana-misra. So here he’s pointing out that there’s no karma, right? Desire for fruitive results, like that. So there’s no sakham there. And there’s no desire for liberation. So that’s free from karma and jnana. So then that situation, so where, so it won’t be controlled by that. So it’ll be progressive.

He’s free from desire for liberation. And what is the influence of jnana over them, over him? Although he does not desire liberation, but a relationship with the Lord, he prefers this relationship to be predominated by peace, santarati, right? So that’s the element where you can see is the misra aspect. So he’s not interested in liberation, but because of the mode of goodness, one doesn’t like any difficulty or any problems, any complications, right? Mode of passion doesn’t mind them, because you can get your result. But the problem with passion is, is that they’re not exactly necessarily as focused on how they should be on what they’re doing. So they take something up with great enthusiasm. But as they start to get their results, they’re not thorough. They don’t finish the work. So that’s also a symptom of passion. Great enthusiasm, you start things, but don’t really finish them nicely. Goodness means, you know, you’ll start it up because it’s supposed to be done, and you’ll finish it properly because it’s supposed to be done. So one doesn’t really like any complications like that. So that’s the weakness of being situated in goodness, right? You have to be situated in pure goodness. So therefore you’re willing to take trouble for Krishna. But as in goodness, you’re focused on the present. You have no desires for the results, so you’re not in the future of passion. You’re not controlled by the past, ignorance, right? So then, and it’s… Thus the jnani mentioned in verse 16 is not an ordinary jnani impersonalist, right? That’s not… We have to get used to these terms have actual meaning. Then there’s how they’re used, right? In general usage. It means, like you have a word that doesn’t mean anything wrong, but people use it badly. So you can’t… So it generally takes on that connotation. So the element of jnani technically means one who wants to know the Lord, right? But then you have the thing is… But they’re knowing through knowledge. So if you remove the Lord part, just leave the knowledge, what do you call the guy? Right? Because jnani means knowledge, but knowledge is about the Lord. So he’s interested in knowledge, but not the Lord. So what are you going to call him? You understand? Because the word means it’s knowledge. So the word stays. But then one has to be able to distinguish between jnani, meaning one who’s a devotee interested in the Lord, is a naiskarmi-bhakta, and someone who is an impersonalist.

Right? Yes. No? Oh, you don’t.

Krsna says, he has a predominance of bhakti, eka-bhakti hi, not like other jnanis who have a predominance of jnana. He has such great attachment for the process of bhakti alone. Oh, he has great attachment for the process of bhakti alone. And is a jnani in name only. I, in the form of Sramasundara, am exceedingly dear to such a jnani. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura’s commentary on verse 17. Right? So in other words, because it’s jnana-misra -bhakti, so the bhakti is predominant, the jnana is less. Right? So generally we would call, in the previous chapters, we would call that jnana-yogi. Right? And even if the jnana is predominant, but it’s still, it’s in the pursuance of bhakti, we’d still say jnana-yogi. But if you’re trying to point out the weakness in it, then you’ll use the term jnana-misra-bhakti.

Right? So one has to, one has to seize, because otherwise sometimes devotees from these terminologies then have a bad concept of the jnana-yoga, so-called jnana-misra or karma-yoga, karma -misra. So they’re not good. So there can only be, you know, the suddha-bhakti, you know, which is true. But the point is, is how do you get the suddha-bhakti? Except through karma-yoga and jnana-yoga. So that means the bhakti is mixed with karma-jnana. But it’s being engaged in the Lord’s service, because you don’t, it’s using karma, but you don’t want the result for yourself. You’re using jnana, but you don’t want liberation. So then it doesn’t have the problem, you know, that is defined by, you know, the obstacles in devotional service. It’s just one is not so mature. The faith, the attachment, all these things haven’t developed so greatly. So it’s just, it’s on the process. So you have to see the context in which it’s used. So here we can see is jnana-misra can be seen in the positive light, or some other charts use it. Jnana-misra means it’s seen in the negative. It means, you know, jnana-misra meaning that it’s progressive where knowledge is being connected to the Lord through devotion, right? Or it can be seen as what is the part within one’s devotional process that is the mix, the material mix that happens to be jnana.

Right? You know what I’m saying? In other words, you have to be able to, in the process, understand the glass is half full and the glass is half empty. You know what I’m saying? To just always use, oh, the glass is half full. You know, that’s great, but then you’ll never have a full glass, because you’re satisfied with this half full glass, because you’re being all nice and good and seeing the positive. So that’s not, that’s great, but at the same time as it only has real meaning, it’s not sentimental when you can also understand it’s half empty. That means it can be filled, but the point is that it’s already half filled. So that means we’re not starting from zero, we’re starting from half and then getting it to full.

Right? So now if you can’t figure out which half is empty, how are you going to fill it? Right?

Does that make sense? So that’s the… Yes?

You know, the intimate relation between husband and wife, right? And they won’t understand it. And then one day they hit puberty. And then they understand it. Did you have to teach them? Did you have to sit down and explain to them how to become attached to a boy or a girl? No. It happens.

So that’s the point. You don’t have to worry about it. Those who worry about it, they’re covered by karma and jnana. They don’t understand the process.

And so it’s a minor thing. If you’re already on the platform of asakti, which means attachment to Krishna, then this is a minor point. But they make it into such a major point. And why do they make it into a major point? It means there are those who are innocent and just disgusting and worried, and they want to get to that position. But the point is like a bunch of 8-year-olds trying to figure out how we’re going to become attracted to girls. You don’t have to worry. It’ll happen.

So that’s the one thing. But more the time, how it’s entered really into the… It means one aspect, it enters into the society as a problem, is that there’ll be jealousies because, hey, I joined when he joined, now he’s the big guru and he’s all this and that. Or, hey, I made him a devotee, now how he’s… But then probably gives the point is that a real Vaisnava is happy to see someone who was junior to him surpass him spiritually. So to have a problem with, hey, he was Bhakta Joe. How is he now the big Shadhari or Nikunjayuno, all this kind of crap like this. So that kind of nonsense is simply due to lack of understanding. Bhaktisiddhanta talks about that. He says the kid is small. When he’s small, he runs around naked in the village. Now he’s grown up, he’s been educated to him, he just was running around naked. Now he’s become the big, how do you say, chief justice and all this and very influential. Him, I know, he was running around naked. How long can you go on saying that? It’s a real village mentality. It’s not sophisticated.

Then you have the other aspect. So that’s just misunderstanding, jealousy, not understanding the principle of advancement. So, okay, that can be understood to some degree, though it’s not, it’s quite, how you say, ignoble. Then you have the others where it’s just being used as a method to get people to come over to a particular guru. Oh, they can’t reveal this to you, only our guru can. So that’s the nonsense tricks of the Indian gurus, like that. Western gurus don’t use it so much. Does that come from the side that that guru is on the prema level? They say that, but if they’re on the prema level, then the point is that they don’t think they’re advanced and they don’t think they’re guru of devotees. That Haridas Thakur in the Harinam Chintamani says, that will stop you dead in the tracks of Baba for hundreds of lifetimes. So that’s not prema.

So if you find that, then why would we call that, oh no, they’re on prema. No, they’re not. If they’re on prema, there would be no distinction between the teachings. Now, someone on prema will not say that Srila Prabhupada is on a lower level of giving knowledge, like that. And we’re just being kind to even say that they’re on Baba.

But they have to be below Purva Raga, because at Purva Raga, all this disappears. So that means, at maximum, they’re on some level within Samarana Dasa. That’s maximum. But the point is, you can get stuck there for hundreds of lifetimes. So it’s not just automatically they’ll go through. The same people will say, oh, but Prabhupada says automatic. It doesn’t work automatic. It’s not going to work automatic for them. So we have to know what we’re dealing with here. The point is, because we have to understand, is the concept of guru has been in India since time immemorial. So you have the bona fide. They’re the best. And the bogus, they’re the best.

No one is better at being a bogus guru than the Indian gurus. They know really how to catch your mind and all this and that. It’s just completely distracted. So they’ll say, oh, you know, if I was giving you so nice, and begin, now we’ll give you that. It’s like that. Oh, wow, yeah. But what are they doing? You want, you desire, you need, like this kind of a thing. They’re catching that. They create the inquisitiveness, that fruitive element like that. There’s a process. You have to get it through them. They’re exclusive. They’re the only one to get it. Prabhupada already talks about these things in his letters and purport, that this is what they’ll do. And then when they do it, devotees get bewildered. But he says it right there. He’s already said that this is exactly, and you hear the words that they say, no, but this, that, exactly what Prabhupada writes that they’ll do. Because it’s standard.

You know, it’s like, how do you say it? It’s just like the guys have these pick -up lines at the bar, and they basically always work, like that. So this is guru pick-up lines, disciple pick-up lines, how these gurus pick up disciples. It’s the same thing. That’s why it’s said. It’s a sense to just have disciples to expand your, either personal prestige or facility or like that. Because it goes on. You understand? So we should understand where these come from. Point is this, Prabhupada is the founder of acarya. He’s done what nobody else has done or can do. And those who are successful, even in the Western and world preaching, who is doing it for them? Not their own local disciples. Prabhupada’s disciples, Prabhupada’s trained disciples. And generally, most of the time, those trained by Prabhupada. So they don’t have that potency. We’re not saying they don’t have, the knowledge they have is the same. There’s no difference in all these different things, in philosophy. But as far as understanding how to take that and preach it around the world, there’s not one of them, not one, that knows how to do it or can do it without Prabhupada. So they’re doing it by doing it through Prabhupada’s method, through his disciples. They don’t have any of their own local people out there doing it. Not one exception.

Like that. You know, one could say, oh, you don’t know, but yeah. We’ve been living with them since, you know, the 70s. The people who are bewildered by them are the ones that bumped into them in the 90s and like that. But we’ve been living with them since that, so for over 30 years. So you know them. They won’t allow each other to do this to them. You know, they won’t allow. But they trick us because we don’t know. So that’s all. We’re easy prey.

Like that. Is that okay? Is that good? Is that okay?

Ultimately, all the three categories of sakhama devotees are required to develop their knowledge of Krsna and attain the position of jnana, right? Because from karma, you’ll naturally get jnana, right? Jnana and vairag. That’s why Krsna is saying in the previous chapters that it’s the better position. Because jnana, you know, if you have knowledge, then you can build on it. So if you have enough that it will maintain itself, then that’s okay. But the point is, how do you get there? So it’s not that you’re performing karma, that just stops and then you start jnana, because where’s the field? So it’s much better to use the field of karma even in jnana. So when we say jnana yoga, it means it includes karma yoga, right? So that’s why Krishna goes through that step of karma yoga, then jnana yoga, and then the two combined, right, in the fifth chapter.

Because he’s showing the… Because while you’re cultivating knowledge, if you’re also practicing activities, then that will give the knowledge and renunciation that’s required for… to power the jnana yoga. So you can do jnana yoga and the karma, because you’re not interested in the fruit of result, you’re not interested in liberation. So even beyond the jnana, right? So karma yoga is beyond, jnana yoga is beyond. So then they naturally nourish each other. So that would be the best. But one has to come to the position to actually want to know, want to study, right? That’s where Prabhupada established these degrees, right? But the thing is, is now what happened? Did they get established, right? Satsvarupa Maharaj was running bhakti-sastri, you know, training and exams in the 70s, right? Heard of anyone else doing it? No, until more recently, until the 90s. So what happened in between? Devotees are enthusiastic, doing all the services, you know, all the things are going on, but what happened?

People go away, things fall apart. Why? No knowledge. Because activity is not going to be successful without knowledge.

So as you develop your activity, you have to develop your knowledge. But the thinking, no, just develop the activity, that’s good enough. No, it has this dynamic, it has to… So if you have more detachment and all this, then it has to be cultivated with the knowledge. That’s where Prabhupada wanted these degrees. So they go together. It’s not that, oh, this is a waste of time. No, point is, it’s now, you know, it’s kind of like you go and then it will peak and then just go down. Because without the knowledge, how do you keep from getting distracted? So those who are not in the temples or not in the dynamic preaching, what are they doing?

What activity? Karma, right? So they were cultivating karma yoga, but didn’t move into this element of knowledge. And so then, now they’re still doing karma, but now not for Krishna, because they don’t have the knowledge. Yes?

Yes.

It’s not obligatory, but the point is, if you made it available, do you think that more people would get involved? Right? The point is, now there’s programs going on, you know, here in Mayapur, in Vrindavan, I’ve heard, I think, in SA, in Radhadesh, you know, I think there’s something to do, a retreat or something like that in America, you know, as a regular basis. Other than that, you don’t really hear of much. So that means those who are that interested, then they’ll go out of their way to get to those places, or they’re already in those places, they’ll take advantage. But now, if every temple had this kind of program, now you’re going to have many who will get involved, and there’s going to be those who won’t. So the point is, as long as they’re fully engaged, you know, body, mind, and words, then it’s fine. But those who have the inquisitiveness to know more, then if you don’t give it to them, how are the words connected?

You know what I’m saying? So you’ve got the body, you know, and to some degree the mind, but if the knowledge is not there, how do you control the mind? So the problem is, the activities are going great, but the mind is not being controlled by the intelligence. And so then with time, one goes away.

Right? The activities will go on, but the mind will get distracted from Krishna into something else. You know, it’s very logical, very scientific.

You know what I’m saying?

So whether managers who have created this problem agree with it, that’s another point.

Because they’ll always say, oh, it’s all theory. The point is, hey, how practical is it? You know, what person would say, okay, we have a system here where people come into the company and we train them and we continue that training and they will stay in the company for their whole lifetime. Or we can not train them and push them and get them all emotionally involved, and after three years they’ll go away, and then we’ll have to train new ones. Which would any intelligent manager choose?

The second one. So that either means they’re not looking at it from an actual, you know, practical way, or they don’t know the importance of knowledge.

You know what I’m saying? Because otherwise, why wouldn’t it be applied?

Because they’ll say, oh, well, you have the Bhagavatam class and some have the Gita class. But the thing is, is it training? That’s just already your sadhana. Then in swadhyaya, there’s study. So that’s hearing. Then there’s study.

Right? So that aspect doesn’t come out. So it’s not that we stop all activities and just study. It should be worked in so it does. You see, like we have with the boys in the school, half of the day is study, half of the day is service.

Like that. So there’s less. You know, we give the famous example, I think it was Zurich. They were always the top temple for book distribution.

And then they were going out from 10 in the morning until 6 o’clock, right? You know, they’re Swiss, so they’re like a clock, so everything’s exact like that. And then Harikesh found out that they weren’t studying, they weren’t reading. So he said everybody from 10 to 12 has to read the books and then they’ll go out from 12 to 6. So he took the two hours out of the sankirtan time. Now, what manager worried about collecting funds is going to do that? Basically nobody. What happened? They distributed more books because now they had more conviction because they had more knowledge. It was easier to explain. They knew more why they were doing what they were doing. They were convinced. I like reading these books. Why wouldn’t everybody else? Right? So they got more in six hours because they studied for two hours.

So that’s Prabhupada’s recommendation. Everybody studies for two hours a day. Does that make sense? So if you work it in, it makes everything else go. Does that make sense?

Sorry?

I would say is because the hearing in the Bhagavatam is part of the sadhana. Then there’s going to be, and that’s one aspect of sadhana. Then you have study.

Does that make sense? There are different aspects of the same thing. Just like you have different preparations.

Is rice different from dal? Yes, but they’re both food. So that’s the difficulty is some people only can see food, so they can’t tell the difference. That’s how you end up with lunch being popcorn and dal or something because they can’t tell the difference of what goes with what. Do you know what I’m saying?

Means the point is get it done, and then as the inquisitiveness comes up, then one should start studying, doing more reading and stuff like that. The point is to put yourself in connection with the literatures that Prabhupada has given.

But since you’re going to do that, why not also make it into some study that you’ll also get. You know you’ve gone through a particular program of study and also get accreditation for it. So that’s the idea. Because then you can tell, okay, they’ve read this much, they understand this much, so they’re on this level. Because Prabhupada even mentioned, I think, about second initiates would be Bhakti Shastri. The sannyasis would be Bhakti Vaibhava, the gurus would be Bhakti Vedanta.

Because that was the point. He figured by 75, devotees would have finished Bhakti Vedanta and then they would start becoming gurus.

Prabhupada confirms this in the Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 3. Without being elevated to the position of a jnani, one cannot stick to devotional service. A jnani has realized that he is spirit soul and that Krsna is the Supreme Spirit. Therefore, he makes his relationship with Krsna and not with the body. So that means any devotee who is serious, there’s that aspect of the jnani, but at the same time it needs to be cultivated.

We always have to remember, it’s just like, let’s say, you have the process from sraddha to prema.

Now, when you first come in contact, there’s sraddha. That’s the first stage, one develops that. But how did you develop that sraddha? Just on your own, out of the blue, you open the box of Cracker Jacks, there it was. You just had to open the little plastic bag and there was your sraddha.

How did you get it? How many box tops did you have to send away?

So it came from association of devotees, which is a higher level. But now the point is that association, you came, you chanted, you were in the kirtan, you took prasad. Now, did you have a taste for that kirtan?

Was it different? Was something in it you really liked it? But that’s part of ruchi.

You know what I’m saying? And so you like going to the temple. You want to go as often as you can. Is that not attachment?

Right? And you’ve heard from them that we’re not the body, we’re service of Krishna. So is that not part of smaranadasa? I mean, how do you say? Yeah. Sravanadasa. That you understand your relationship with Krishna, eternal. You understand? You know, and then with time you’re not too sure about it, going to the temple, all this and that. But then you get adjusted. You know what to do, where your shoes go, and what you do, and when you bow down. So you’re adjusted with it. Is that not varanadasa of bhava sadhana?

You understand? So you start to think about Krishna and you’re doing this. Oh, I bet Krishna wouldn’t like that. So is that not smaranadasa?

Do you understand the point? The point is that what’s prominent is what you call it.

So because it’s this whole thing of faith in not being involved in devotional service and developing that faith to be involved, therefore it’s called sraddha.

Right? And then once you gain that, then you’re going to want to be with others who have that same mentality, so then it’s sadhu -sangha. But sraddha goes away. No, actually sraddha’s more, because that’s what you’re associating with devotees. Then you’re associating with the devotees, then by practicing in that, then you become more established, more stable. Right? So then you know what to do and you’re determined to do that, so then it becomes bhajana-kriya. So does that mean you give up association with devotees and your faith goes away? No. It builds. So in other words, it builds up. So there’s three, in other words, bhajana-kriya means there’s three parts of sraddha, two of sadhu-sangha and then one of that. So that’s the one that’s prominent in your mind.

You know what I’m saying? Someone who doesn’t know how to ride a bicycle, then they’re always thinking about it. Right? And gone there and it’s prominent. But once they know, it’s not prominent. You know, listening to their iPod is more prominent. You know what I’m saying? Does this make sense? So you go by what’s prominent in the consciousness, but it doesn’t mean the other elements aren’t there. All the elements are there at once, but it’s just a matter of the proportion.

Does this make sense? So that’s why it’s difficult when everything has to be put into, you know, little boxes and stuff like that, because it doesn’t show the actual connection between them.

Right? So the point is that everybody has some knowledge. That’s why they’re there. So that’s what’s there. So if you cultivate that, then that will make more conviction. One will be stronger.

So it’s like in here, we’re finding the difference between, you know, what is karma and what’s karma yoga. You know, to be able to tell. What’s the difference between karma yoga jnana and jnana yoga, and then how that’s combined is bhakti yoga, or buddhi yoga in this case.

Does this make sense?

A pious person should thus progress from the sakham to the nishkam. Right? So definitely one has knowledge, but the prominence is the activities and the results you want to get from it. Because here we’re saying the nishkam is also the jijnasu, because they just want to know for themselves. They’re interested, so they want to know. Like that. So it’s nice. You know, that’s great. But the point is, where does Krishna come in? That you’re actually doing it to please him. That’s the jnani. Because he knows, I’m servant of Krishna. So it says here, jnani has realized that he is spirit soul, that Krishna is the supreme spirit. Therefore he makes his relation with Krishna, not with the body. He has realized that you know, that’s the beginning, that he’s realized. So that’s what defines the jnani. So he’s on nishkam.

Right? Because otherwise you know, but you’re still, you know, you know I’m servant of Krishna, and Krishna is God, you should go to him, but then you still want all facility from him, or your miseries to go away, or… Does that make sense?

The pious person should thus progress from the sakham to the nishkam level, and then make further advancement towards complete surrender to the Lord. In verses 17 to 19, it is explained that of the four types of pious people mentioned above, the one who has realized his constitutional position as eternal servant of Krishna, and is always engaged in pure devotional service to him, is the best. Krishna is very dear to him, and he is very dear to Krishna, because such a devotee has only one purpose, to serve Krishna with love and devotion. While the other three pious persons want something in return for their service. The jnani has unmotivated and exclusive devotion to Krishna, eka-bhaktir, because his consciousness is brought under control by the practice of jnana. He can fix his attention to the Lord. He is therefore nitya-yukta, always engaged in pure devotional service. Krishna considers such a devotee just like his own self. So the note. Still, the kevala-bhakta, the pure unalloyed devotee, described in verse 1, maya-saktah manah partha, is considered by the Lord to be dearer than his very self. The Lord confirms this in Srimad-Bhagavatam 11 .14.15. My dear Uddhava, neither Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, Lord Sankarsana, the goddess of fortune, nor indeed my own self, are as dear to me as you are. So in other words, there is going to be that connection, that he is dear, but then there is the one who is more dear than oneself.

Does that make sense? So it’s like in Dvaraka, Mathura and Vrndavana. So Dvaraka is perfect, but Mathura is more perfect, and Vrndavana is most perfect. So there is variety still within perfection. So within the pure devotional service, there is still the difference between pure and pure unalloyed. And even within pure, then you have levels. So pure devotional service is there, the Madhyama, but then there is higher than that, the pure devotional service of the of the Baba Bhakta. But then there is the topmost, the pure unalloyed devotional service of the Prema Bhakta.

So that’s all pure devoting. That’s also for your other questions. Pure devotional service starts from Madhyama. Yeah, but the problem is they’ll say, you know, you have to surrender to a, you know, a Nitya Siddha, you know, someone who is free from all material loads, who is situated in pure devotional service. They haven’t understood. They think they are talking about one person, but they just describe three levels.

Because Nitya Siddha then means Prema. Because until you get to there, it’s not Nitya Siddha. Right? Liberated is Baba. Free from material contentment is Baba. You know, like that. Know who they are, the spirit, that’s Baba. Like that. And then pure devotee, that’s anywhere from Madhyama, Nishtha above.

Like that. So the difficulty is that devotees don’t even know the terms. So that’s why I’m saying their approach to these things is sentimental. There’s some other, you know, some other, something else is mixed there. So the actual knowledge is not there. So they miss the point.

The Lord is so affectionate towards His devotees that He considers the Jnani as His own self, Atma, Atmaiva. Rejecting all relationships as inherently material, and thus being entirely ignorant of the science of rasa, the Mayavadis misunderstand this exchange of love between the Lord and His devotee and take Atmaiva to confirm their theory of monism. Right? They understand oneness is in mood. Right? You know, it’s always said, you know, Radha and Krishna, they’ll make the point of that one soul and two bodies.

So the two bodies are always there. The forms are always there. Otherwise, if it’s there, what’s the meaning of, you know, you’re, you know, you’re feeling one with yourself, you know, does that give you some, you know, special satisfaction, you know? No, because that, you know, it’s when two people have one mentality. That’s what has the flavor. You understand? So we can take part in that. So Radha and Krishna have that one mentality. So we can assist in that. You know what I’m saying? So that expands that. Right? That position, principle of Krishna’s expanding the creation for expanding rasa. Right? And at the same time, our position as assistants, as services, as instruments.

So then that works.

Because they can’t see that you can have two and have a common ground. They wrongly conclude that the devotee and the Lord are identical in all respects. This erroneous idea is repeatedly refuted by the Vaishnavacharyas. As Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusan comments, one cannot propose that in this verse, the Lord says that he is non-different from the jiva, who has become a jnani, because he is not the goal of worship for such a jnani, or because this is not the goal of worship for such a jnani. As well, there are no statements showing his result for any of the four types of worshipers.

As well, there are contrary statements made elsewhere of the difference between the jiva and the Lord, even in the stage of liberation. The jnani is called my atma only because of my extreme affection for him. This is similar to saying I have affection. Bhadrasena is my very self. Others say that atma means mine in this verse. In that case, the sentence would mean, my mind thinks of him constantly.

Is that clear?

It is tatparyacandrika.

Sri Vedanta-desika also states that there cannot be separate identity between the Lord and the jnani. This candrika aspect looks interesting.

The statement of identity should be understood as an expression of an intense love felt by the Lord for his devotee. The Lord says, whatever the Vedanta may hold, it is my settled conviction that the man of wisdom is my very self.

Vedanta is the knowledge, but someone who has that knowledge, who practices that, then that’s more dear. Because the knowledge is important, but there’s someone who can do it. It’s just like you have this fabulous first -class kitchen. That’s great. But the person who can go in there and cook something in that kitchen, then that’s more dear. You may love your pot.

Your Jamie Oliver Teflon pot.

But ultimately, it’s the person who can use it that’s more important.

Does that make sense?

Only the pure-hearted devotees can understand the Lord’s dealings with other devotees. The Mayavadis are bereft of knowledge of the confidential loving exchanges between the Lord and his devotees because they do not follow in the discipline of the Lord’s devotees. Therefore, their explanation of this verse cannot be accepted. Because we’ve already established in the beginning, in the introduction, that unless the spirit is correct, you can’t understand. God is beyond. He’s beyond knowledge. So how by knowledge you’ll know the Lord? But the point is, knowledge is a medium to know the Lord. So if you approach the Lord through the proper knowledge, and therefore that gives proper activity, because knowledge should be applied. So when that proper knowledge is properly applied, and the purpose of it is to please the Lord, to know the Lord, that then is what pleases the Lord. Because it’s not just everyone sitting around in telepathy or something, or that everyone’s going to end up as, how you say, just a brain sitting in a jar somewhere. It’s very popular. But the point is, it’s interaction that’s important. Like that.

Although the jnani is the best among the pious persons described in verse 16, the other three categories are also appreciated by Krsna. It means, Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport to verse 18, It is not that devotees who are less complete in knowledge are not dear to the Lord.

This is a very big chapter.

It’s the biggest, yeah. This is about devotion to the Lord. I’m impressed. I was thinking, wow, we’re going through so many pages, and then it just keeps going through so many. Wow, 20 pages. I’m impressed.

Don’t worry. It’s good.

It is not that devotees who are less complete in knowledge are not dear to the Lord. The Lord says that all are magnanimous, because anyone who comes to the Lord for any purpose is called a mahatma, or great soul. This is important. Anyone there is a mahatma. Even gurus.

They’re all mahatmas. So every devotee is. That’s why vaisnava parada is so, one has to be very careful about it. Am I saying? Am I saying?

because all are dear. Now, all living entities are dear to Krsna. But the point is, because they’re not interacting with Him, He can’t manifest that. So yes, they’re neutral. He remains neutral. Even if they’re against, He still remains neutral. But they’re His.

But as soon as they recognize the Lord and try to come towards the Lord, then they become mahatmas. They’re special. So the specialness is that they come to the Lord. Now, within mahatmas, of course, you’re going to have gradation. But we always say the top is real and everything else is nonsense. You know, it’s 100% or nothing. But where does 100% or nothing come from? Where do you have this element that 100 % is important?

Yeah, material world is complete. You don’t have 100%, you don’t have it. If you only cooked a potato, 80%, you don’t have a cooked potato. Right? So only when it’s 100%, do you have anything. So anything less than that is not there. So we take this element of karma and apply that on the spiritual. Right? You know, it’s the same Mayavad mistake. That’s why we have to have this knowledge. No. If it’s connected to Krishna, then it’s already perfect. Now it’s just gradation of perfection.

So that means everybody who surrendered to Krishna, like that, whatever capacity, you know, you could say, oh, a surrender means this, you know, complete this, that. No, he always, he’s really dogmatic, really heavy, you know, you know, get out there and burn them at the stake kind of statements. You know? But the point is, is here, he’s saying artha, artharthi, and jijnasu. You know, so he’s just approaching Krishna for facility or to get rid of his anxiety. Right?

That they’re mahatmas. You know? But then, point is, is the mahatmas should associate with mahatmas who are more mahatma than themselves. Like that. Yes? Yes.

I will say it very succinctly because we’ve discussed this in the past. You catch it? Great. If you don’t, then you’ll just have to, as we go, put things together. Point is, is the difficulty becomes because of our definition of what the spiritual world is. You know what I’m saying? The spiritual world is where Krishna and his internal potency are interacting.

You know what I’m saying? That’s the spiritual world. Now, you have, and then the external, external, you know, the bahiranga shakti. So antaranga we understand and bahiranga we understand. What we don’t understand is tatastha. You know, which is a problem because that’s what we’re from. So that’s, I guess, the problem of self -realization. You know, it’s a difficulty, you know, like that because it’s either, you know, we’re material energy so as materialists we’re doing that quite well or as impersonalists then we’re God. So we work out these things quite well. Right? But the difficulty is that the spiritual world, where the spiritual world and the material world are at the same place at the same time, that’s the tatastha shakti.

Does that make sense? So, the point is, is, where do you, so you have to start from that point. That’s the point of neutrality. To either move from there into the material or into the spiritual. Right? But the platform is spiritual. There is only spiritual. But spiritual can become covered. Right? The internal potency won’t because they don’t have that tendency but the jivas can because they’re so small. So they can be, their spiritual can be covered. It doesn’t go away. So, the point is, is where the Lord has his pastimes or what we would call Gokul. At the same time Gokul can also refer to, you know, Gokul. So, making here, using goloka meaning, you know, in the Tripada Bhuti, you know, where Goloka Vrndavana, the planet is and its expansion into this material world as Gokula. But that Gokula is the power of this Tathastu Shakti that holds the material energy and the spiritual in the same place. Right? Because the residents of Vrndavana are in spiritual bodies doing spiritual activities and the demons are coming into Vrndavana in material bodies and doing material activities. Does that make sense? So, the point is, is when one goes from here, one goes to Gokula. But that’s the stage of Bhava. So, Bhava happens in Gokula. So, when you’re in your surupa, that’s where you’re in your surupa.

Right? And so, therefore, all those different things where you haven’t developed that love and attraction for Krishna, that can be dealt with there. So, that’s why one practices. When one comes to Prema, then one goes to Goloka. So, Prabhupada explains that in the Purports. As they say, everybody goes from here, next birth is Gokula and then from Gokula you go to Goloka. Though there are those that are advanced enough that through meditation they’re already coming to the platform of Prema in Gokula. But through meditation, they’re still in their present body, but through meditation they’re in the pastimes. As Sri Aurobindo Das says, he offers his respectful obeisances to all the residents of Vrndavana, those who are there in their form and those who are there by meditation.

Right? That’s the opening to Manasiksha.

So, that’s where that 30% is taken care of. You understand? So, that’s why, yeah, devotee’s been doing all this and that, but then, you know, he’s been right out there and really out there and then, you know, he gets AIDS and figures out, you know, that’s it. He’s got two weeks to live, so he comes back to the temple, you know, like that, starts chanting and everything and then, you know, you know, they’re there and, you know, some other devotee is, you know, kind of keeping watch and all that and they’ve been in a, you know, whatever, they go into a coma and then suddenly they sit up and say, Oh, Prabhupada, you came. And then they fall over dead.

So, that’s what it means.

You understand? So, that’s the point, is if you’re focused, you remember Krishna, you go to Krishna. It doesn’t matter what else is there because the point is Krishna is what’s important, not what they did, because what they did, what does that matter? You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? So, if we’re understanding that what’s not connected to Krishna’s illusion, since when does illusion have substance?

So, therefore, but if you remember Krishna, that’s substance. So, that’s real. Everything else is unreal. So, it doesn’t matter what happened. But the point is, is if you’re going to remember Krishna, that takes practice. So, if you haven’t practiced it, there’s a good chance you’re not going to remember. So, the Hindu concept, you know, grow up now, get yourself situated, enjoy yourself, have your family life, you know, your money, everything like this, and at the end of the life we’ll worry about spiritual life. But, you know, what if you don’t? Because you haven’t practiced. So, the point is, from the beginning, you start Krishna consciousness. Then, there’s every chance you’re going to remember Krishna. Does that make sense?

The devotees who want some benefit out of devotional service are accepted by the Lord because there’s exchange of affection. Out of affection, they ask the Lord for some material benefit. And when they get it, they become so satisfied that they also advance in devotional service. So, they get it, but at the same time they start to lose that desire. Right? Because it’s connected to the Lord. That’s the point, is it’s connected to the Lord. So, the reason that we talk about it’s not good is simply because the element that’s not connected to the Lord.

Does that make sense? So, you know, the potato has a peel. That’s not so good. You can’t digest it, you know. It may have so many vitamins and minerals in it, but that’s not for you. That’s for a cow. Like that. They got the stomach, they can digest it. So, but does that mean the potato’s not good? So, you keep the potato, get rid of the potato peel. Right? So, the whole point is, is that in approaching the Lord for these things, the approaching the Lord, going to the Lord, interacting with the Lord, that’s the good part. That you want some material results, that’s the part that’s not so important. But now, which is greater? The Lord or the material result? Right? The Lord. Means He’s everything. Material world is only one quarter, you know, and the part that we’re kind of trying to control is, you could say, yeah, a little bit less than one quarter of the cosmic creation. Like that. Now, we may think it’s a little bit bigger, you know. What is it? We are the world, you know, like that. So, you know, that kind of thing. Does that make sense? So, one has to, this is, this is actually saying the glass is half full. Because you’re seeing what’s there. So, the half empty part is, is because of material desire. That’s there. But if you can, if you focus on that, the glass full is Krishna, then you cultivate that part of it. You know, Krishna, and then the other part will go away. Just like if you concentrate on the glass half full and keep the filling process, then the emptiness goes away. Does that make sense? So, it’s not sentimental.

Right? It’s just, you know, it’s a fact. You know. But, of course, all facts you can imbue, can be imbued with sentiments. So, as long as that sentiment is connected to Krishna, it’s great. If it’s not, it’s nice, but still a bit useless. Nice useless.

What was that? Pleasant useless. Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakur comments on the same verse. Arjuna asks, Arjuna asks, then what means the other three are, oh, Arjuna asks, then that means the other three are not dear to you. Right? Because he said, the Jnani is the most dear. So, then Arjuna asks, so does that mean the other three aren’t? You know, like that. You know, it’s like, you know, you know, lunch has been cooked and that. Oh, the sabji is so nice. You know, like that. Does that mean you don’t like the other one? You know, it’s the same. Krishna replies, no, they are all dear to me. No, they’re all good. They worship me while accepting objects which have been desired. That means which they have desired. And which I want to give them anyway. They are very dear to me because I am affectionate to all devotees and like to give them generously. But the Jnani is my very self. He worships me and does not desire anything at all from me. Neither swarga nor moksha. Thus I am dependent on him. He is my soul. Because, because, then Krishna can relate on his platform. Because the other one is, you’re taking care of it on your platform. Right? Otherwise, why is, why is friendship considered greater than servitorship?

What was the other part you said? Yeah, it goes, sorry? The other part you said. Yes, so there’s an interaction there. Because the other one is going one way, but not so much back. You know what I’m saying? And then why is conjugal higher than parental?

Surrender? The same principle. Right? In other words, the parents take care of the child. It’s all what the child wants, the parent takes care. And so there’s a nice interaction.

You know, but it doesn’t have the same depth as the conjugal. You know what I’m saying? In other words, the friendship and the servitorship then are not as intimate. Right? You know, while the conjugal and the parental are intimate. But you can see as the one where the interaction’s going both ways is higher than the one who’s going in one direction. Does that make sense? So that’s the point, is in these others it’s nice, it’s an interaction. But then there’s the one where it’s equal.

Does that make sense? So that’s… you know, and that’s why Shantas, you appreciate and they appreciate, and that’s it. There’s no dynamic interaction. God appreciates the Shantabhakta, Shantabhakta appreciates God. And so, but that’s where it ends. So at least in servitorship there’s something dynamic, something’s going on. Right? So does that make sense? Yes? I don’t understand what it means, where Krishna says there are objects which I wanted to give them anyway. Objects he wanted to give. Like, I mean… Means he wanted to already give the Mercedes -Benz, so they didn’t actually have to ask for it.

Like that. But because they’re asking that is in connection with the Lord.

Why did he want to give it?

Why give it? I mean, it could have been a Maserati. It’s true. So why did God pick the Mercedes?

That would be definitely a source of, you know how I say, research.

My doubt is that before the devotee asks for it, why would Krishna want to give it to them anyway? What are they going to ask within? Within? What are the areas that someone asks within?

The areas of their interest. Yeah, the areas of interest, their nature. So, and then what is, what is the, and what is the process that we see of Karma Yoga?

Yes. So taking your nature, engaging. So the facilities for that engagement, you know, of nature, then are what would be naturally the things that you would use to interact with Krishna. So Krishna would already like to give those, but the point is, is he wants to give them, but only if it will enhance your devotion. Because otherwise if he gives them and then you’ll be distracted, why would he give? You know what I’m saying? You know, in other words, you know, the father is a, you know how you say, you know, expert, you know, sharpshooter and all that. You know, he’s won so many awards and this and that. He’s really into all his guns and all that. So he would like his son to also become, right? But he’s not going to give him a gun, you know, if he’s going to use it to, you know, shoot the dog and, you know, knock off, you know, the plates in the kitchen and, you know, shoot his friends or, you know, like that. So he’s only when he’s going to be responsible with it. You understand? And so if by, Krishna would like to give it because it expands the field of activities in which the devotee could interact with Krishna. But if by giving it one will become distracted and go away, then why give it? You know what I’m saying? So he’d like to, but he can’t. You know, just like the parent would like to give so many things, but he can’t. You know? Does that make sense? The father, the son is born, you know, he wants to give him the family business, but he has to wait until he’s mature enough to actually get it. You know what I’m saying? Like that. Okay?

I still haven’t resolved about the Mercedes.

It’s probably because everybody else has one. That’s the point. Does the name Mercedes have some relation to mercy?

Maybe. I mean, we can definitely take it into this area like that, but then we might end up, you know, kind of like in the, how do you say, the cultural dysfunctional position of nerds. So it might not be worthwhile.

Or you say you go after, you follow, what is it? Pursue. Yeah, to pursue such a, you know, definition like that.

After many births and deaths, such pious persons realizes that in everything there is a relationship with the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna. Knowing Sri Krsna to be the cause of all causes, he surrenders unto Him in full Krsna consciousness. Such surrendered great soul is very rare. Verse 19. Okay. So, in other words, you’re seeing, because the jnani is based on this knowledge of understanding your position and Krsna’s position. So then you see here is these two level things. It means in everything there’s a relationship to Krsna.

And so that means there’s connection. He’s the cause of it. So the interaction, right? And then it brings to the point of full surrender. Do we see the three stages there? It means many births. How do you say? Pious person realizes that in everything there’s a relationship with the Supreme Lord. So that’s the Parabrahman understanding. Knowing Krsna to be the cause of all causes, that’s the Paramatma understanding. He surrenders to Him in full Krsna consciousness. Then you’re getting the Bhagavan.

Srila Prabhupada summarizes the progress of the jnani as follows.

The living entity, while executing devotional service or transcendental rituals, after many, many births, may actually become situated in transcendental pure knowledge that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate goal of spiritual realization.

Right? So you’re performing devotional activities, but at some point you realize that the goal of that activity is Krsna. You understand? You’re taking a bath and doing this, but actually it’s Krsna. You’re taking a bath for Krsna. Right? You know, a good friend comes and this and that, and you’ve been out in the field. You go, you take your bath, you make yourself presentable. It’s because of the person. Not just, oh, here’s the ritual, a guest has come, so I have to take a bath. Okay, at least you do it. So it’s good. And the person will appreciate. But there is the stage that you’re doing it just for them. Right? Does that make sense? So that’s what Prabhupada said, transcendental rituals. So the activity is transcendental.

In the beginning of spiritual realization, while one is trying to give up one’s attachment to materialism, there is some leaning towards impersonalism.

Because you’re trying to give up the one, so you have to pull yourself out of that. So the tendency is to go into the impersonal, because you don’t want to get involved, because you haven’t connected yourself to Krsna, which is the personal. It says tendency. Because they’re not impersonalists. Like I said before, the jnani is not interested in liberation. That’s not his point. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to be freed from material distress and the problems of the material world, like that, because of the mode of goodness. But the point is he’s not interested in liberation, so he’s not actually a jnani in the sense of the impersonalist.

But when one is further advanced, he can understand that there are activities in the spiritual life and that these activities constitute devotional service. So it’s not that I’m doing this sadhana to get myself out of the material world. This sadhana is actually things that please Krsna as a person. He likes these things. He does these things. He gets up in the morning. He takes a bath. He does service to the cows and the brahmanas. He takes his lunch, his meal with his friends and family and interacts. So one’s doing all these things. You take prasad in the association of the Vaisnavas, because that’s how Krsna likes to do it. Think of it. When Krsna sits down and takes prasad, who is He taking prasad with?

Devotees, the Vaisnavas. Therefore, that’s the principle. You sit down and take prasad with the Vaisnavas. That’s what Krsna likes to do.

Realizing this, He becomes attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrenders to Him. At such a time, one can understand that Lord Krsna’s mercy is everything, and He is the cause of all causes, and that this material manifestation is not independent from Him. So now you’re seeing all these other things back from there. So then you see how Krsna has entered all activities, all different things, the potencies, the attractiveness. It’s all Krsna. But before it’s intellectual, you know it’s God and all this, and now that attachment to Krsna, now you see it the other way. So that’s how it’s said that the pure devotee sees Krsna in everything, because it’s gone the other way now. Does that make sense?

So in other words, before it was knowledge, now it’s realization.

At such time, okay, he realizes the material world to be a perverted reflection of spiritual variegatedness, and realizes that in everything there’s a relationship with the Supreme Lord, Krsna. What’s here is reflected from there, so that means it has a connection to Krsna, because everything there is connected to Krsna. So everything here that you see, there’s some connection. So then you can take that and you don’t get distracted by these other things. That’s why someone can’t tell that, you know, that’s so terrible. But the point is, it’s that rasa, that’s Krsna. You know, that’s coming from there. It may be that, but it’s manifest here because the living entity is one. It has a medium, but it’s been perverted.

So it doesn’t have that problem, because we’re not attached to the mundane concepts, you know, good and bad. You understand? Because that’s why it’s, oh, that’s, you know, that, you know, how could that be, you know? Does that make sense?

Thus he thinks of everything in relation to Vasudeva or Sri Krsna. So Vasudeva is transcendental, it’s above, you know, so you see the spiritual aspect, you know, or Krsna, you know, directly as the person, you know, that more, you know, let’s say it could be a little bit more intellectual, a little bit more, you know, just personal. Such a universal vision of Vasudeva precipitates one’s full surrender to the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna is the highest goal. In other words, you see how Krsna is in everything, then that will be just before seeing, you know, Krsna. Does that make sense? Because you know it’s Krsna is in everything, but you’re seeing that through that element of knowledge. Then you surrender to Him, then it goes back the other way, right? And then that makes it, brings it more that you see that, so then it takes it further. You know, it’s like ripples on a lake. They go to one side and come back to the other and come back.

Such surrendered souls, great souls are very rare, Bhagavad-gita 7.19. You can see in here, this is also something for yourself, is that this element of, these subtleties are in here. Well, we’ve read this purport and these kind of purports so many times. But have we understood the levels of Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan, and how we’re going from that seeing in here and going up till we actually have more realization of how Krsna is a person? That comes down and then nourishes the Paramatma and Brahman aspect, which then that precipitates one’s actual surrender to Krsna.

Right? Have we been seeing this? If you have, great. But if you haven’t, then we can understand when people say Prabhupada’s only giving the basis, that’s just pure, unalloyed nonsense.

Like that. It means they don’t know what they’re talking about. And that’s being nice. And so we’ll leave it at that and won’t say that they have other material, you know, how you say, agendas, that that’s why they’re saying this. But the point is, is they don’t understand what’s seen, because one has to know the subtleties.

Like, I mean, I remember when I was 12, we were walking, I think, through, yeah, I think through Disneyland. And it was, you know, I was the only kid there. And there was my parents and all their friends, you know, so they’re all adults, you know. So, you know, up to that time, you know, they’re always laughing and joking and talking and all that. And but I wouldn’t pay any attention to, you know, their jokes like that until, you know, walking along. And then I, you know, because I guess, you know, well, I understood their joke, you know. So then I, you know, made a comment, you know, regarding that, that I understood. And then, you know, all the adults cracked up because they’ll be talking about all these very intimate aspects. But in language that doesn’t appear to be. So, you know, they’ve been talking for years, all this kind of stuff, but I’ve never noticed it. Right. But then I didn’t notice it. Right. So that’s the point is that all these words Prabhupada’s using, they have further meanings. So they, in other words, they’ll mean something to us on our level. But as one advance, one sees more and more and more. Right. So that’s the point is it’s like a culpabhiksa tree. It’s unlimited. So the only one to say, well, Prabhupada is giving the basis and they’ll give further. That’s just nonsense. They just don’t understand the process, you know, or they’re misrepresenting it for some other purpose. So it can’t be that these things can’t be tolerated like that. Yes. So that is the reason why Prabhupada says that his purports are actually more important than the verses. Are his purports more important than the verses? Yes, like that, because then you understand what the verse means. Otherwise, see, because you have the you have the Veda, but then how you understand the Veda, that makes your philosophy. So there’s six, you know, general understandings of the Veda. So you get those different mimamsas, that’s how they interpret it. So Prabhupada’s purport is our hermeneutics to understand what Krishna is saying. Right. So then through that, we will understand what is being given by the Acharyas headed by Rupa Goswami. Then you’ll see what Rupa Goswami sees, because if you don’t follow that line, who knows what you’re going to see?

And if someone says, no, but we’re all the same line. Great. But then there is the point is who picked you up out of the gutter? Do you want to be standing next to them or do you want to be standing next to someone else who came along a little later?

Who do you owe your life to? Somebody says we have no problem that somebody has directly been picked up by that, that person. Great. But people have been picked up by Prabhupada and then they, they take claim that we don’t have any, anything good to say. And then nice, it’s they’re connected, they’re involved. That’s great. But the problem is, is where are they going to be?

That’s the point. It’s very specific. When you get to that level, then talk all, it’s very specific here and you got to be like this. But when you get to that level, then it’s all one. It’s not all one there. You’re with those persons that you’re performing service with and are dear to. That’s the group because that has the group dynamic.

What I’m saying? So that’s it. And it’s not, we’re, we’re, we’re in Braj. We’re not in, in these, you know, other aspects of Vrindavan where there’s 10 million maidservants, right? There’s plenty. It doesn’t matter. It’s like, you know, us and every other, you know, variety of follower of Lord Caitanya can fit into that. But in Braj, the groups are small. So the intimacy is greater.

Like that. So therefore, there’s five to six thousand maidservants. That’s it. In one pastime.

So that starts to limit numbers. So you just decide who do you want to be standing next to? It’s that simple. So it’s very personal. So, and then they say, no, but we’re all, you know, we’re all in the same group. No, we’re not. Don’t kid yourself. We’re not.

Like that.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

That’s the point is that he’s speaking these very, very, you know, lofty truths, but it’s simple language. But because he’s willing to use the simple language, then the tendency is those who are expert will say that it’s, you know, that, you know, they’ll go. In other words, as you become more expert, you kind of like increase your vocabulary and method of speaking. Right. But but that’s that’s the expert. But then the master, he’s master because he can present that technical point that the expert knows, but can’t explain to someone who is not also potentially expert. Right. In other words, you can let’s say you took an expert in, in, in, in, in, let’s say, you know, some particular science, very technical thing. And then you told that expert, can you explain this to, you know, this this classroom of first first graders, they wouldn’t be able to do it. Because they have to use their terms, they have to use this and that. And the reason that they’re attached to it. That’s what makes them an expert. But the master could do it easily because they know what the essence is and they know what language they speak. And they would present it in things that they would understand.

So that’s what what I think was called. I think that’s I think that’s what the meaning of Shrotriya. I think that’s it. I have to look it up. There’s one word in Manu that they give is that person who can take very technical or elevated points and present them very clearly, simply. That’s Shrotriya. That’s what you want. Right. So that’s that’s the qualification of the spiritual master. Not that he knows what you are, you know, what you are in the spiritual realm or not, because even if he does, what does it matter to you? What can you do with it? Nothing.

So so it’s not it’s not important.

Is that something?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could say.

I would say there’s always as we say, there’s always some level of big gun. Otherwise, someone’s not expert unless there’s some element of big gun, because there is a there is a what do you call it?

A. There is a change in the lifestyle because important to them. So anything that’s a change in the lifestyle becomes becomes part of the lifestyle. That means it’s big gun. But the point is, is only that aspect has. So it has it like the essence hasn’t become because they don’t know that. So that’s that’s the thing. So there is a difference in even within the level of mastery of what’s there. So it’s not just in the subject matter. It’s in the depth of understanding of the subject matter. So the Vedas put more on means you do make the distinction between material knowledge and the transcendental knowledge. So that’s there. So teacher of transcendental knowledge is higher than a teacher of material knowledge. But within teacher of transcendental knowledge, then you have one who’s realized the one who’s not. So that that also is defined.

So in the modern education, they just make distinctions between subject matter. But but what’s but what’s to define what’s higher and lower that they can’t say. So.

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