Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #35

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #35

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Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Verses 24 to 26 explain how to achieve the level of samādhi described in 20 to 23. One should practice yoga with determination and faith and not deviate. In the purport to verse 24, Śrīla Prabhupāda writes, The yoga practitioner should be determined and should patiently prosecute the practice without deviation. One should be sure of success at the end and pursue this course with great perseverance, not becoming discouraged if there is any delay in the attainment of success. Success is sure for the rigid practitioner. Similarly, the practice of yoga, especially bhakti-yoga, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, may appear to be a very difficult job, but if anyone follows the principles with great determination, the Lord will surely help, for God helps those who help themselves.

So that faith is important. As Viśvanātha points out, that this process of developing through śraddha-diprema, that’s based on faith, right? So, as the faith matures, one moves forward. That’s the important element. It’s not happening because of something else. It’s because of faith, because if faith’s not there, then one does not continue with anything, right? You get on the bus, you think it’s going some place, and then you start getting doubts, you know, then you’ll definitely get off the bus, you know, you’re not going to continue, right? So that’s the whole thing. If that faith is there, then it will continue. You will… And so, now Prabhupāda says, the rigid practitioner, right? So now, what is the obstacles that get in the way, right? You know, there’s some wall somewhere or something like that, or, you know, what is it, you know, pile of sand, or, anarthas, right? So it’s going to be the anarthas that are the problem. So that means, one may not be always that fixed, right? Means, let’s say, fixed means that the practice is always so perfect. But someone who is, who is, what does Prabhupāda says, rigid. Rigid means, with, you know, how you say, fixed, right? So niṣṭa. So, they’ll be successful. So then it’s a matter of being determined that even if it’s not going so well, that one will continue doing it until it does go well. And going well, then naturally the result will come, right? Because you’re doing it for Kṛṣṇa, not because you’ve just so expertly done it. So, here then it mentions that the Lord… So, anyone who… It may appear to be a difficult job, but anyone who follows the principles with great determination, the Lord will surely help, for God helps those who help themselves. So, in other words, that gap between your ability to do it nicely and, and being fixed, you know, it means where you are now and being in the position of being a rigid practitioner, that then Kṛṣṇa will help, right? If you’re determined. If you’re not determined, you don’t have faith, then of course, Kṛṣṇa’s not going to help, right? Does that make sense? So, one must be convinced, like that. I remember, I think it was once, I think it was Śruta Dānya. He was sitting in Prabhupāda’s room. He may have just been here, he came in to do something and all that, probably just looked at him and went, are you convinced? You know, it’s kind of like, about what? You know, cleaning the floor? You know, it’s a, you know, so Prabhupāda’s point, if you’re convinced, then you will be successful and you’ll be, you will preach. Because if you’re convinced, then naturally you like to give it to others, right?

Isn’t it? That’s probably one of the very rare uses of the Western false ego. If they’re doing it, everybody’s got to do it. So, if you’re Kṛṣṇa conscious, the whole world better be Kṛṣṇa conscious. So, you know, so it works. It works.

Such determination results from strong faith in the process of bhakti. Faith, śraddha, is defined in the teachings of Lord Caitanya as follows. Firm conviction to execute the order of the Lord is known as faith. If one has faith, he is firmly convinced that simply by rendering devotional service to Lord Kṛṣṇa, all other activities are automatically performed, including ritualistic duties, sacrifices, yoga and the speculative pursuit of knowledge. What is convinced that devotional service to the Lord includes everything, no other activity is required, right? So, that determination, that’s what’s going to make one successful. So that means it’s based on this faith. So, faith that it’s only Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only devotional activities. So, of course, that would then define if someone’s just fixed in doing the direct activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, right? Chanting and preaching, there’s nothing else that needs to be done. No other aspects of material existence need to be attended to. One will be successful, right? One doesn’t have to worry that in the Vedas that it says, you know, you must do different things in the śraddha rites and have a son to do that śraddha rites and do so many other things. One doesn’t have to worry. And none of that is important, because you’re pleasing Kṛṣṇa. He’s the original forefather, right? So, therefore, you know what I’m saying? You don’t need a son to worship Kṛṣṇa. You need a son to worship Kṛṣṇa. If that was important, then many of us would be in trouble, right? Some of us would be okay.

Does that make sense, right? So, therefore, it’s not a problem. But, now, in this, this is now a very important step here, is that if one has material, how do you say, needs, you know, the concept of material possession, material affinity, then that means what it is that you are interested in, that must be connected to Kṛṣṇa, right? So, that may be where, okay, then one has family, one has children, one, you know, does so many duties. That would be considered normally your material duties, you know, or religious duties. But still, it doesn’t change this point, because one is only doing it in connection with Kṛṣṇa. So, the point is, is this devotional, devotional element is its perfection, not that it’s being done because of religious obligation.

Does that make sense? So, when we say perform one’s duty, that doesn’t mean separate devotional service. It means that you have to do something to show your affection to Kṛṣṇa, right? It can’t just be anything. So, how do you, what is the medium? The medium is the prescribed duties. But it’s not that the prescribed duties are what’s making everything perfect. Does that make sense? So, in other words, prescribed duties are defined in varṇāśrama. So, but it’s not varṇāśrama that’s generating the devotion, right? That’s not generating the result. It’s that, it’s your devotion to Kṛṣṇa, and because of the need, you’re following varṇāśrama. But that’s because of your own attachments.

Yes? Following varṇāśrama can also be a way to position yourself in a way so you will obtain love of Kṛṣṇa. But how, how will, by positioning yourself in that way, how will that make you develop love for Kṛṣṇa? It will remove obstacles. But remove what obstacles? Material attachments or… But how would varṇāśrama remove material attachments if it’s not connected to Kṛṣṇa?

You understand? Yeah. He said, like Indra, is he known, is he, is he, is he famous throughout the universe for being detached from material enjoyment? Not really. Okay, not really, okay. And he is, but he is, you know, of those who are attached, the most pious living entity.

You understand? In other words, of those attached to sense gratification, he’s the most pious living entity in the universe. Right? Then beyond him are those pious souls that are not attached to sense gratification.

Right? He’s following varṇāśrama perfectly. Yes, he’s following varṇāśrama. Everybody else does also, but the point is, is, my point is, is it’s not because you’re following varṇāśrama, that is what you’re getting the benefit from. It’s because you’re following in connection to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, you can follow it and things may go nicely, obstacles are removed, but if they’re removed, why you’ll serve Kṛṣṇa in that removed environment of no obstacles?

You know what I’m saying? You know, what is an obstacle? An obstacle is… Define an actual practical obstacle that one would follow varṇāśrama to mitigate.

Playing computer games. Playing computer games. Okay. So you are saying that there should be a varṇāśramic way of playing computer games. No, but since there isn’t, then… So you only play ones that go back into like the medieval kind of time, because the feudal system, feudal system is closer to varṇāśrama and all that, so you generally stay with dungeons, dragons and that. You stay away from, you know, like all these modern car racing and what is it, what’s that thing, what’s that thing? The one where you steal the cars, the felony? Grand theft auto. You’d stay away from that, because that’s not, that would not be proper stuff like that.

No. Okay. That means gladiators would be okay, right? Because that goes back even further.

Okay, different example.

Sex enjoyment. Okay, sex enjoyment. Okay, so how would varṇāśrama mitigate the difficulties arising in sex enjoyment? It would put it under certain control. Certain control, and how will that certain control get rid of the problems?

It will get rid of the problem because it removes the problem. But how does it remove, how does varṇāśrama remove the problem? What is the problem? What’s the problem in sex enjoyment? The problem is that it makes us deviate from focusing our attention to Kṛṣṇa. Okay, but how does it make one deviate? One’s in control and enjoys. Yeah, okay, one’s in control and enjoys. So how does varṇāśrama solve that problem?

Pretty much just commands us to not deal on this urge. Not deal on this urge that people have children. Is there another? So it puts it into a controlled context. So just because it’s in that controlled concept, that gets rid of the urge? No, but since we don’t act on the urge, then we don’t get the negative reactions. So you don’t act on it, so you don’t get the negative reaction.

But the desire for sense gratification is still there, you’re just not willing to get too involved because it gives trouble. So how is that removing the obstacle? Because the desire for sense gratification still remains.

Well, you would probably realize through practice that you’re better off in this way. Better off in which way? Without acting on these urges, and then without feeding these urges, then they would subside. Okay, but is that something that’s going to happen very nicely in one lifetime?

Probably not. That sounds like you’re describing the slow path. Yes. Like over thousands or millions of lifetimes.

But the point is, how does it get rid of sex life?

You have a higher taste for Kṛṣṇa. Okay, then you just don’t get involved, but at the same time, you’re involved because you have a taste for this. Yes. You do it in a way that’s pleasing to Kṛṣṇa, so it connects you to Him. Yes, in other words, there is a connection of sexual activity to Kṛṣṇa. You know what I’m saying? But the point is, what’s the best thing to connect to Kṛṣṇa? Something that’s Vedic, according to Varanāśrama, socially, or something that’s not, that’s speculative? Something that’s Vedic. Yes, so that’s the point. It’s just like, you could go out and probably order some aluminum arctic lamps and plates and cups and all that, but would that be as nice as silver or gold? No. No, okay, so that’s the point. Is that these others, then, the difficulty is, is that do they even know? It means just like this. Sex means it’s an intimate interaction between men and women, okay? Just as a definition, a general definition, right? We’re all comfortable with that, right? Okay, now, let us look at this. Does the Vedic literature have definitions for what’s male and female? Yes. Do they have definitions for what’s intimate and what’s not? Okay, now let’s look at, take it a step further. Does the West have definitions for what’s male and female? No. No. Do they have definitions of what is intimacy? No. So then how will they actually be able to engage that sexual desire? Because they don’t even know what it is.

You understand? So that’s the point, is that they won’t actually be able to deal with what it is and remove it mechanically.

You understand? Because how can you remove something you don’t know what it is? It’s just a feeling, it’s an urge, something, a need, you know, like that. But what is that? A need for what?

Right? Does that make sense? So they can’t even define that. So how will they, you know what I’m saying? So that thing is just the interaction of the sense and the sense object. But the point is this, then why is there a need of relationship?

You know what I’m saying? It’s just senses and sense objects. Why do boys and girls worry that the other one’s off with someone else? You know, other than it’s just a lost opportunity. But if the opportunity’s not lost, why would they get upset?

Because there’s the emotional content. That’s not part of it, but that’s not understood. So the emotional content, that’s what comes from the fidelity.

The greater the fidelity, the higher the emotional content.

It means not going off with someone else.

Like that.

Does that make sense? It also has something to do with music or something.

So does that make sense? So the point is there is that it’s the quality of what you’re dealing with. Because if you’re dealing, you have to deal in knowledge. Otherwise, how are you going to get a result? You do something with no knowledge and you get a result, then it just happened. So how are you going to be freed from that desire for that if you don’t even know what happened?

You know what I’m saying?

So that’s the point. So one could say, no, but okay, it happened, now you deal with it. But if you don’t have the knowledge of what you’re dealing with, how are you going to actually know what to do with what you have now? You know what I’m saying? Because the situation may change, but still the elements of the field are the same.

Does that make sense? So the point is, is Varnashram, in other words, we’re discussing in here that we have faith that it’s only, if one is convinced that devotional service to the Lord includes everything, no other activities required. So some people say, oh, we don’t need Varnashram, this, that. But the point is, is we need devotional service. So devotional service has to be performed through a medium. So do we just do anything we want? We want to worship the Lord. Okay. So how do we do that?

Yes, we follow Shastra Pancharatra. So does the Shastra define the form of the deity? Do they define what rituals can be performed? Right. So all rules and regulations are defined. So what’s the devotion?

Yes. So between the devotee and the Lord, that’s what’s being done. But the medium is Pancharatra. So we don’t make it up. But one could be spontaneous, because what’s spontaneity? Not in what you’re doing, it’s the mood in which it’s done. See, we have the idea, Western idea is that spontaneity means do whatever you like. No, it’s what you’re doing, you’re doing with that life or enthusiasm.

Because you do whatever you like, how will anybody else relate? Unless it’s common, how do you relate?

So that’s the common ground. So Varna Ashram is common ground. It’s something that everybody can relate to, if you actually understand Varna Ashram. If you don’t, you think it’s just a group of rules and regulations, you’ll never understand. That’s why it says scholarship’s not enough.

So the point is, if you have no material needs, then just chant Hare Krishna, like Hare Dasa Thakur. Then you don’t need to do anything else. But if there’s any other material needs, how are you going to fulfill them?

So you can use a Western model. But the point is, is it the Western model or the Varna Ashram that’s important?

No, but is that actually what’s important? No, it’s the devotion in which it’s used. So that means if you don’t know what’s the Varna Ashram thing or not, or that you just have something, you engage in Krishna’s service, it’s connected. So it is devotional service.

But if you know the difference, the Varna Ashram is a higher element, can be applied, why would you want to use something inferior? If you’re using something inferior, that’s because of your own attachment, your own need. So even that’s there, great. But then you’re using that for Krishna. But it’s just a little bit more of yourself involved. It’s more Sakon than Nishkon. But still it’s connected to Krishna. So that’s why it’s perfect. But one shouldn’t make up philosophies that there’s no need of using higher mediums. You know what I’m saying?

Does that make sense? That’s the point.

So then whatever it is that you use in Krishna’s service, that becomes devotional service. So it’s the devotional service that’s important. That’s what we have that faith in. Firm conviction to execute the order of the Lord is known as faith. So you want to perform the devotional activities to please Krishna. That’s what you’re trying to do. Right? And then you’ll use the best possible medium to do that.

Does that make sense? You know, Mother Yashoda, she feeds Krishna milk, his personal milk. She has special cows. Right? Krishna likes the milk from the brown cows. Right? So she keeps special cows, like that. And feeds them special grasses and herbs. So it will give a particular, you know, flavor and quality to the milk. Right? That’s why Mother Yashoda was so worried when she was feeding Krishna and the pot of milk was boiling over. Because this was the milk from that special cow. Right? So that’s why she didn’t want it to be lost. So she was doing it as service to Krishna. Right? So there’s no fault there technically. But, you know, Krishna wanted to do some special pastimes.

So he got upset. You understand? So, devotee always uses the best. So whatever you value, that’s what you use. Right? So that’s good enough. But you have to understand, that works for you. It may not work for others.

Does that make sense?

Okay.

A yogi should be firmly convinced that real happiness is transcendental to material, sensual experience. Unless he is convinced of that, he will surely be agitated and will fall down. Therefore, by strong faith and determination, he should give up material desires, born of mental speculation, and thus control the senses by the mind. Material desires born of mental speculation. Because you do something. Right? Does it give you a great result?

I mean, just being bluntly honest. The senses contact the sense objects. Do they always give a great result? No. Do they ever give a great result? Not necessarily. You know? So that’s what Dhruva Maharaj talks about. It’s called Shruti Sukhat. You’ve heard about pleasures.

Right? Shruti means hearing. Sukhat, happiness. So, Shruti Sukhat means we’ve heard about it, but no one has ever had it. It’s only talked about, you know? Does that make sense? You know? So, therefore, when that happens, what happens next? Okay, that didn’t work. So then what happens next? You’ll try. Well, if you modify it a little, then it will work. Then so many obstacles, and you finally get it. You know? And then that didn’t work again. Right? So something else. So you make up a new plan. And then you try. And so many obstacles. You have to make plans within plans to get to what you want. And then you finally… And it still doesn’t work. So that’s material desires born of mental speculation or mental concoction.

Right? Because, in other words, we create that this should be good.

Right? No? You know? You know, something’s starting to fall together. Wow, hey, this is going to be good. You know? But that means we can understand you’re not doing it.

And if you’re not involved, it’s not going to happen. And if you are involved and think you’re doing it, then it’s also not going to happen. So that means you have to be involved as an instrument. So that means someone else is controlling it. So it can’t work according to your speculation.

So that’s why the sastras then define even what sense gratification.

Because that’s what works. But because it doesn’t work… Now, why doesn’t it work? We follow the Vedic things for what is sense gratification. And still we’re not satisfied. So what should be the conclusion?

We’ll never be satisfied. Right? You can’t be satisfied. So that’s the point. That’s the first point. So, in other words, one cannot be happy in the material world. Yayati, right? He exchanged his youth with his son for a thousand years. And what he did for a thousand years was, you know, to his best of ability, enjoyed sense gratification that was not contrary to religious principles for a thousand years. And what was his conclusion?

Anyone know? There is no… You can’t be happy with material… So that means a thousand years following all the religious principles as we defined before. Why I say that? Because you say, oh, but there’s… No. They define what is actual going to get you results. You know what I’m saying? So, therefore, he did whatever could be done that would give you the maximum result you can actually get within the material sphere. Then what was his conclusion?

It’s not worthwhile. So, therefore, then he came back, gave the youth back to his son, and went to the forest.

You understand?

Because there… Even you get… So the idea is if we follow speculative ways of sense gratification, right? Then… And it’s not based on the religious principles. That means you don’t know what you’re dealing with. So if you’re not intelligently dealing with the field, you won’t get a very good result. Right? So then there’s a problem there. Right? So then… So… So then one’s definitely going to speculate, well, if I did this and that, then it would be better. Because that’s all you have, is your mental concoction. Because there is no basis. But now, if you take the basis that the Vedic literature has defined… You know, what is culture? What is the social interaction? Therefore, what is the maximum enjoyment a human being could get out of that environment? Now, you’re taking that, connecting it to Kṛṣṇa. So one thing is there, is you’re taking… You’re getting the best result from following the rules and regulations, and that result is being given to Kṛṣṇa. So you’re making the best offering that can be made in that situation. Right? With the material ingredients. Okay? But now, since it’s the best, then you can compare the material benefit gained from it, and the spiritual taste. You understand? So what’s going to be the conclusion? The spiritual taste is higher. So that means the best that there is, it still doesn’t work. It still can’t satisfy the soul. So that’s where one gives up.

Is this similar to what we were discussing yesterday with the demigods?

Yes. It means it’s just no matter what it is, that’s the point. That’s as good as it gets. Basically, as far as material sense gratification goes, the demigods don’t get much better. But even there, there’s always something else, this and that. So the same problems are there. It’s not any different.

Right? Does that make sense? Because they don’t have to follow the rules of religiosity here. So their apsaras and other things like that, they’re not connected with you. You know? You know what I’m saying? So today they’re with you, tomorrow they’re with someone else. And then it’s kind of like… And you can’t say, this is not religious, because you’re in the heavenly planets. That doesn’t apply.

You know what I’m saying? So it’s… It’s a problem. The point is that material is dead matter. So then taking it… Okay, so we understand that point. Now why is that working? Why is there even any concept of material sense enjoyment?

Because Krishna enters it. So actually what you’re dealing with is spiritual. You know, it’s Brahman. But we mistake that it’s the dead matter. So that’s also the other aspect of mental speculation. Because we think it’s the dead matter that is giving us this pleasure. When it’s not, it’s Krishna’s potency. Right? So when you combine the knowledge with the proper practice, then you can see there’s a limit to the material, and whatever there is, it’s Krishna. And why would following, therefore, the proper rules and regulations in connection with engaging the senses make you more happy?

Yes, so it’s in connection with Krishna. You’re trying to please Krishna by doing that. So therefore, Krishna being pleased, you’re pleased. That’s why you’re more happy, because Krishna’s more happy.

Does that make sense? You know, so if we look at it from either side, socially or philosophically, you know, the mechanics of it is just not going to work. Living entity can’t really enjoy here. So that’s why then, but that doesn’t mean one doesn’t do something. One has one’s conditioning, so one performs the activities that are proper for your position. Right? And according to that, then we engage that and connect it to Krishna. So our faith is that alone is all that’s necessary. We don’t have to follow all these rules and regulations because we need to follow them. It’s a proper thing. It’s a good thing. It’s the righteous thing to do. No. Because actual righteousness is serving Krishna. No, not serving Krishna, no matter how nice it is, that’s actually unrighteous.

Does that make sense?

So that’s, that’s, so one is engaging everything in Krishna’s service. That’s the point.

Does that make sense? You have something? No. You have something?

Therefore, by strong faith and determination, one should give up all material desires born of mental speculation and thus control the senses by the mind. Gradually, step by step, one should bring the mind back into the control of self. Now also, control the senses by the mind. How are we controlling the senses by the mind?

By the intelligence, but still, but still, the mind is what engages the senses.

So what has happened here?

The mind has a desire. It accepts and rejects. It has a desire. So accordingly, it engages the senses. But here we’re saying now the mind is controlling these senses.

Yes, because the mind is controlled by the intelligence. In other words, we know the mind has accepted that material nature won’t give me any satisfaction. So the mind is not interested to engage the senses in material sense gratification.

So that means the mind is controlled by the spiritual intelligence. So then we’re dealing with the spiritual mind. Because spiritual mind chooses Krishna. Material mind doesn’t.

Interesting thing, it just means Prabhupada is talking, I think it’s… Yes, in here, it’s in one of these purports, just in this section. Where Prabhupada is mentioning, he says, the spiritual life is covered.

Very interesting point. Because we generally say there’s material life, there’s spiritual life. But material life means where spiritual life is covered by your conditioned nature. Because otherwise, then if we don’t understand that aspect, then we think that conditioned nature stands on its own. Material existence stands on its own, but it doesn’t. There’s only spiritual nature for the soul. But it becomes covered, like the gold. If we drop it in the mud, it’s not different gold. Is gold covered by mud? So in other words, the spiritual life is covered by the material consciousness.

So it’s just a matter of purifying ourselves, removing that material consciousness, the spiritual automatically comes forth, right? It’s not that you take the ring, it’s dropped in the mud, then you get all the mud off, now you have to turn it into gold. No, it’s automatic. That’s why Prabhupada uses the term automatic, because the soul, that’s its nature. So you remove ceto-darpana-marjana, that’s the meaning. Oh, he was describing it in connection with Patanjali. Because there, then also he’s defining that Patanjali, there’s also an understanding that Patanjali and these other great personalities that wrote the six schools, they themselves are, they know the conclusion. But the conclusion’s already been given by Vyasadeva, and there’s these other people who are deviating from that conclusion. And so they write their literature, their philosophy in such a way, they will catch those people, and they’ll be engaged in proper activities.

Though, because they want a bad conclusion, they get one. But underlying, hidden, if you really study it properly, you’ll understand that actually they’re meaning something else.

So in other words, like we were discussing before, it’s still the bhakti that makes it work, but they hide it in such a way that they don’t see it. So it’s not that Patanjali is an impersonalist, he’s not. But he writes it in such a way that those who are will at least engage themselves, because pious people can surrender to Krishna, impious won’t. So better they’re pious than impious.

You understand? That makes sense, right? So the philosophy that’s being presented, how it is, how it’s being understood and misapplied, that we don’t have anything good to say about. But we don’t speak badly about the authors of these different schools. Does that make sense?

Verses 27 to 32. They describe the symptoms of the perfect yogi. The yogi whose mind is fixed on Krishna attains the highest perfection of transcendental happiness.

He is freed from all reactions of previous activities. He is beyond the mode of passion and he is qualitatively one with the Supreme, Brahma -bhutam.

In the purport to verse 27, Srila Prabhupada explains, Brahma-bhuta is the state of being free from material contamination and situated in the transcendental service of the Lord. That’s different from liberation, because liberation simply means free from material contamination and that’s it. Brahma-bhuta means free from material contamination or mukti and situated in transcendental service of the Lord. That’s Brahma-bhuta. So when we say Brahma-bhuta and liberation, they mean the same thing, but liberation only means half of it. It means getting out of the material world. But Brahma-bhuta means getting out of the material world and that process to get into the spiritual world.

Mad-bhaktim labhate param, Bhagavad-gita, 18.54 One cannot remain in the quality of Brahman, the Absolute, till one’s mind is fixed on the lotus feet of the Lord.

Because, oh yeah, sa vai krsna-parar avindayo srimad-bhagavatam 9.4.18 To be always engaged in the transcendental loving of the service or to remain in Krsna consciousness is to be factually liberated from the mode of passion and all material contamination.

You can’t remain on the platform of Brahman unless one is engaged in the Lord’s service. Why? Because it’s the nature of the soul to be active. Yes, the nature of the soul to be active. So when you’re active, if you think spiritual means only sat, then when there’s a need for cit and ananda, then what happens? Yeah, you come down to the material world. Because that’s all you know. The only activity you know is material. You don’t know a spiritual activity. Otherwise you need activity, you go up. Right? Like the four kamaras. They’re on the Brahman platform. And they see that this activity is giving transcendental pleasure. So they know material energy can’t do that. So that must mean it’s coming from this interaction with the Lord. So devotional service generates transcendental pleasure.

So they cannot remain.

And why here Prabhupada is always mentioning here just freed from the mode of passion.

Yes, that’s the point. It’s that sense of enjoyment, sense of possession.

All that kind of elements, that’s what’s going to be there. So through the passion, then you want to control and enjoy. You know what I’m saying? Then that will be controlled by so many qualities. You have to therefore be in the mode of goodness, be in the present to actually interact in the right way like that. Then you obtain it. That’s also the mode of goodness. But then the problem is then that moves back into ignorance because that becomes a false identity. Right? And then from there you become inspired. So there’s more, you know, it’s the mode of passion creates that inspiration for more trying to enjoy the false identification like that. So the passion will be the working principle. So if you remove that, then you get to… You know, if you remove that, then you can only remove that if there’s no ignorance. Right? Because passion is based on ignorance. Right? Abhidheya is based on sambandha. So sambandha in the material world is ignorance. So if you remove passion, it means you’ve removed the ignorance. Right? It means that it’s factual. Because the impersonalists try to do that, remove the passion, but there’s the ignorance they don’t know who they actually are. So then what will happen? What will ignorance generate? Sambandha will generate…

Prayoja and Abhidheya. So then the other modes come up. So to remove that means you have to change the identity. So identity is, I’m a servant of Krsna. So then it’s no longer the mode of ignorance. Now you’re dealing with the sambandhi potency. You’re dealing with sat, eternality. So then that will generate… And then the naiskarmi that’s already been described, is then your goals are all, at least, Krsna. So then your Abhidheya will be under what? Will be under passion. No, it’ll be under the cit potency. So it’ll be spiritual.

Does that make sense? You see the mechanics there.

Such a yogi is self-controlled and constantly engages in yoga practice. He achieves the highest happiness in loving service to Krsna.

So it’s loving service to Krsna. So why is it the highest happiness?

Krsna is pleased, right? So is Krsna pleased as Atmarama? Yes. But is He more pleased interacting with the devotees? Right. So Brahman is the Atmarama platform.

So therefore, even though there’s so much happiness there, it doesn’t compare with the happiness of the interaction with Krsna and the devotees.

So that’s why it gives the highest happiness. So they taste that, they see that. In interaction, in service, that gives a higher pleasure than simply being on the Brahma-bhuta platform.

Because that neutrality state, OK, it gives some happiness. But there’s beyond. That’s why Rupa Goswami keeps mentioning this.

So in other words, this idea of…

Yeah.

Means getting out of the material world is compared to an ocean to a drop. But then that ocean is reduced to a drop compared to an unlimited ocean.

You understand? So therefore, even though it’s so great, the other one’s even greater.

Right? Does that make sense? So that’s always brought up. Because that way we don’t get satisfied to just stop at Brahma-bhuta.

Yes.

It’s… The point is, it’s… In practice, it’s not technically neutral. Because you’re on… Means Brahma-bhuta here then would mean you’re on the liberated platform. At which stage in the process of the development of bhakti is one on the liberated platform.

Bhava, right? So bhava means you’re in your spiritual form, you know, within the spiritual environment, with all the other devotees in their spiritual form. So it’s not technically neutral. But at the same time as attachment, attraction to Krishna is dynamic, you have to cultivate it. So you have to cultivate that through cultivating association with the advanced devotees.

You understand? So if you’re just happy doing whatever you do in Vrindavan, you know, making your cow dung patties and cooking a few chapatis and all this, then that’s not going to be very dynamic. How is that going to develop that love for Krishna?

Means bhava is the stage of, on the Brahma-bhuta platform, moving from that neutral state up to Prema. But the point is, is you have to want to do it. Basically speaking, someone who has will. But still, it has to be pointed out that you can be distracted.

You know what I’m saying? Means, let us say you’re in your house, okay? And a few things, minor things go wrong. Right? What’s the tendency?

Hmm? To fix them. Okay. But let’s say, does that have any effect on your consciousness of Krishna? Means something goes wrong in your house. Would it become an impetus for remembering Krishna? No. What if it’s a big thing? Then more. Okay? In other words, you’re saying, if you can deal with it, why remember Krishna? If you can’t deal with it, then you remember Krishna. Okay, so this is practical, very straightforward. You can be very consistent in this, you know? Like that. Okay. So, let us, you know, having redefined here. So if things really go wrong in your house, you remember Krishna. But if they don’t go wrong in your house, you may not remember Krishna. Okay. So, do things go wrong in the spiritual energy? No. So if you’re in your spiritual body, in a spiritual house, doing your activities around the house, nothing’s going to go wrong. What’s going to make you remember Krishna? You understand? So you have to have that determination that that’s what you want. And if that is what you want, then you get the association of the eternal associates of the Lord who have that love for Krishna that you want. They have Prema. Right? So, by their association, then seeing their service and their mood, then you’ll develop Prema. That’s why it’s called bhava-sadhana. Right? So bhava-bhakti, it’s still a sadhana. So you adjust with your position in the spiritual world. You know, it means who you are, your position. But the point is, is until you’re fully absorbed in Krishna.

Right? So when it says you have to give up everything, it means that. It means here, you’re having to give up, you know, house and clothes and everything else that’s made out of dead matter. Right? And always gives trouble. Right? And we’re so attached and that’s so difficult. So what about giving up stuff that’s nice and doesn’t give any trouble?

Yeah, so that’s the point. Is that if you’re not willing to give it up here, you’re not going to give it up there. But the point is, unless you’re giving it up here, you’re not going to get there. So since you already practiced at it here, you’ll continue that practice there. So that’s the point of Brahmabhuta. It just keeps going through. Because your goal is Krishna, not Bhava. Right? So that experience of Bhava, that is what the impersonalists are looking for. But they don’t know, they don’t understand the thing in relation to Krishna. So they don’t get that. So it’s only mukti. It’s just simply getting out of material world. But you got getting out of material world and being in the spiritual world. So it’s something more. But that’s still shanta. You’re simply appreciating Krishna and the spiritual nature. That’s shanta. But it has to become dynamic.

Right? Only if it’s dynamic, then you’ll serve.

Sorry? Get to which platform?

No.

What we’re saying is that the liberated platform, that’s the same. But the difference is that’s their goal. So they’ll stop there. But to devotees, prema is the goal. So then Bhava is simply a place in between. It’s a medium.

So that’s why one would keep going. Because otherwise one might doubt why would you keep going. But at the same time, that’s why the philosophy is meaning all these things. Because it has this double meaning. You have to give up everything here. You have to give it up there. Right? Was it everything just so simple, right? That means, what do you call it? The cowherd girls there and everything. It’s a cakewalk just going and being with Krishna and everything like that. Right? No. They still have to give up their social positions and all those different things. You understand? So that’s just the nature of the relation, the nature of the soul. That’s why they’re greater. Vaikuntha, you don’t have to give up your social position.

Right? But they’re the greatest because they’re willing to give up that. Means you have social position here. Okay, it’s there. It’s temporary. There it’s eternal. So you’re giving that up eternally.

That’s what makes them the greatest.

You understand? So you’re not being asked to do anything here that they don’t do there. So that’s why saying all these things, Oh, it’s just the Vedic thing, it’s just some mundane thing. What’s the difference between the Vedic and… It’s a mundane thing in America and that’s mundane, so what’s the difference?

That’s cheating.

Because one’s an actual reflection and one’s a perverted reflection. One’s a perversion of that perverted reflection.

You know what I’m saying? You look in the mirror and you see your regular face. Then that’s… what do you call it? That’s a perverted reflection because it’s not actually… It’s you but at the same time it’s not. Now when you look in the mirror in the morning, now that’s a perversion of a perversion.

You understand?

So you can’t compare the two.

Does that make sense? So that’s the difficulty. That’s the false statement, is that they’re not. Because one is given by the Lord, you know, and the American Constitution wasn’t necessarily like that.

Yeah, that’s that.

In God we trust, all others have to pay cash.

So, like that.

So.

All right, you mentioned that the devotee would remove the passion, he’s off to that stage. Yeah. And for that devotee, the inspiration is coming from what element? It would be coming from the opportunities to please Krishna. Because the thing is, sacrifice means the willingness to give up. One’s own pleasure for someone else’s, to work for someone else’s pleasure. So by practicing that, one sees that there’s a higher pleasure in that than doing it yourself. You know what I’m saying? You know? So.

So that’s… one sees opportunities to serve Krishna. So that’s the thing, is you have to be clever and smart, and so you see the opportunities. Right? Because even in the spiritual environment, everybody wants to serve Krishna, so then you see an opportunity. Right? The standard service that you’re going to do, but there’s always these special opportunities. That’s what makes the variety.

Does that make sense?

Yeah?

Such a yogi… Can we read this?

Can we read the comment? I mean, the purport? No. Srila Prabhupada writes in the purport to verse 28, Self-realization means knowing one’s constitutional position in relationship to the Supreme. Individual soul is part and parcel of the Supreme, and its position is to render transcendental service to the Lord. This transcendental contact with the Supreme is called brahma-samsparsa.

I think it’s because sparsa means to touch. So samsparsa means, you know, full or complete touch, yes. The baba level.

You can stay, but eventually you won’t. But the problem is you can get stuck for hundreds of lifetimes.

You know what I’m saying? Because everybody there, because they’re working within the material time, though it’s eternal, but the appearance of it, then that pastime will wind up and move on, and then you’ll have to appear in another one. So Haridas Thakur says you can get stuck like that for hundreds.

You know, if you think you’re the devotee, you’re great, you know, you’re… Does that make sense?

It’s by association. So when you somehow or another, by the Lord’s grace, take up the association of the devotees, then you’ll move beyond that. But if you think you’re the devotee, then you don’t think you need the association of the Lord’s devotees.

Not that you fall down, you get stuck.

You know what I’m saying? It’s not permanent. One will continue, but why waste…

Everybody here will go up afterwards also. We’re still making… You understand? We’re still making that endeavor. You know, because it’s through endeavor that you get there. Means you can also fall back from there, like that. So there’s examples of that also. You know, if you become distracted by the material. Because if you’re not attracted to Krishna, you’ll be attracted to the material energy. So you make the same idiot mistake you made in the first place.

Okay? But generally speaking, because of the engagement in devotional service, that won’t happen. Because you’ve been in the material world, so you’re not about to do that again. But the problem is, unless you take that dynamic interest in pleasing Krishna, you may not move forward as quickly as you could. Just like, give an example. When Krishna plays the flute on the night of the Maharas, the gopis go. No? Do all the gopis go? Why not?

Hmm? They hesitate, and why do they hesitate?

Yes, and so what happens to them? They get stuck, right? Their husbands and brothers and fathers, whatever it is, whoever it is, they catch them and lock them in their room.

So, why didn’t they go? Because… Yeah, because there’s still some tinge of the material, right? Because it’s just like, let’s say you take a box of hing, right? And you open the top. What does it smell like? Hing, okay. What if we dump out all the hing and wash the box really nicely? What does it smell like? Hing. So, but is there any hing? No, there’s no hing. So that’s the position. There is no material contamination, but there’s still a fragrance. So you have to get rid of that fragrance. Right?

So that’s the point. So those gopis aren’t the ones that have taken up the association of the nitya-siddhas.

Right? They weren’t that serious. They were comfortable in the family life, taking care of the, you know, cooking and taking care of the kids and the family members. Right? Because they’re all made out of sun-dini potencies, so I mean, it’s not bad. You know, they’re not made out of, you know, how you say, blood, stool, urine, pus and all that. You know, they’re made out of spiritual energy, so it’s not bad. But they didn’t, so they weren’t as focused on Krishna as they should have been. But you can see that they wanted to go, so they were focused on Krishna, but not as much as it needed.

So they hadn’t come to the point of samadhi. So that’s what we’re talking about here. Yoga-ruta is coming to the point of samadhi. So they hadn’t. So there’s meditation.

Right? But, you know, your smriti is, you remember sometimes. Anusmriti, a little bit more. But it’s not samadhi.

Does that make sense? So then, because of being stopped, then they think of Krishna. You know, they come to that platform of samadhi. By that, it burns up whatever is left of the pious and impious. As I mentioned, it’s pious also, so it’s not, pious also keeps you back. Right? Then it’s all burnt up. So some of them, if it happened instantaneously, then Yogamaya arranges, like the other gopis, that they can get away. And some that didn’t, it took a little longer, then, you know, it’s a little bit late for that round. So they get stuck there, but then the next time there’s a rasa dance, they can go.

Does that make sense?

So, it’s the same process, just that you are in the spiritual form. So it’s not that way, it’s a spiritual form, that’s it. That’s why we call them sahajiyas, because you get the spiritual form and this and that, and then it’s done. No, prema, then you can start to say. You could say it’s done, but it’s not. You know, so bhava is never done.

You understand? It’s being done. It’s being done, yes, it’s getting, it’s dynamically getting done.

Right, because technically speaking, now bhava, brahma-bhuta means anartana-vritti.

That’s real anartana-vritti, right? Then one gets accustomed, one gets that taste, one gets that attachment. That attachment then is purvaraga, it’s complete attachment. Before that was attachment, but it’s not complete. So when we say asakti, that means attachment. So that brings you to bhava, but it’s not the attachment in bhava, what they’re talking about. That is purvaraga, complete attachment.

And so that then takes you on. So the next stage where you associate with Krsna, that takes you to prema. This make sense?

So one should always remember that, that anartana -vritti, then it’s prominent in the madhyam stage. So the anartas aren’t the prominent thing. The devotion, the being situated, the taste or attachment, these are what’s prominent. But still something’s there, but that has to be completely removed. So when it comes to bhava, then you could say all the reactions are removed, but there’s still that slight subtlety of the flavor within the consciousness. So that has to be removed.

Does that make sense? So one’s not being asked to do anything different than they do in the spiritual world. But you’re only being asked to do it on the level that you’re doing it here. Right? Does that make sense? Like, let us say, if there is a professor in English lit, right? Is he dealing with the alphabet? Yes. Now, let’s say you have a kid in nursery school, and they’re learning to write A, B, C. Are they working with the alphabet? So you’re not asking them to do anything different, right? One writes the alphabet, the other writes the alphabet. So what you’re dealing with is no different, but it’s according to your level.

So the devotional process doesn’t change.

It’s just according to your level than what you can do.

But the process is the same.

Does that make sense? Are we clear on why the soul is to render service?

There’s no doubts on that.

The point is that if you have the subject and the object, means Krishna and Radharani, there’s going to be an activity connecting them. So if you’re involved in that activity, because you’re not Radha or Krishna, that’s not going to happen.

So that’s not going to happen, right? So that means we can be involved in the activity between them. And so since we’re not the doer, Krishna’s the doer, and we’re not the, what do you call it, the do-ee, then that means we can be assistant in the activity. That’s the position of the soul.

Because it’s natural. Tatasta means that you can see the two sides. So that means you can see both at once, and therefore see that the activity goes nicely.

Does that make sense? But one, at this stage, is no longer in the tatasta position, because it’s not tatasta between material world and spiritual world, but now it’s between the male and female. Seeing that that works together. Does that make sense? So that is the position of the living entity. So it works. So one doesn’t have to think, well, why? Why are we made like that? No, that’s just the way it is.

Verse 27 describes a yogi who realized that he is qualitatively one with Brahman. Verse 28 speaks about going beyond Brahman and realizing the Supersoul. So in other words, you’re understanding you’re Brahman, and then there’s the Supreme Brahman, and you have a relationship with Him.

Understand that Krsna and the Supreme Soul are one, ekatram. A yogi can progress towards personal relationships with the Lord.

Does that make sense? So in other words, you’re going from Brahman to Paramatma. Understand that Paramatma and Krsna are non-different. So therefore, you can move on to Krsna. Go to Bhagavan. So it’s the natural, you know, how you say? Progression. Progression, yeah, that’s good. Progression, yes.

Yeah, I mean, let’s say it’s a development of consciousness, because Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan are all Brahman. But just there’s a superiority of Brahman. Because in one, you have the position, means the existence. The other, you have knowledge and some activity, some interaction, of, you know, you’re doing things, and it’s by Paramatma he’s controlling. But there’s still not that ananda, which is the result. So you’ve got sat, cit, ananda. So to have ananda means the sat and cit have to both be there. For cit to be there, there must be sat. Right? But for sat to be there, you only need sat. So that’s basically, you’re only understanding the sat aspect of Brahman. Sat and cit with Paramatma, and sat-cit -ananda with Bhagavan. So, in other words, the Brahman is always there. Like sat is always there. But it’s now you’re adding into that knowledge and activities, and then that ananda that comes from that. Right? Because that means it’s based on the relationships. Right? Because, in other words, the super… Means there’s Brahman, so everything’s Brahman. Then there’s… Parabrahman is managing this Brahman. So that’s the Supersoul. But the point is, then he’s beyond that, where he’s not managing this inferior Brahman, but he’s involved in the superior Brahman, in interacting with the devotees and loving exchange. So that’s much greater than just he’s God and controlling this place. Does that make sense? So then the yogi can transfer himself through these levels, because otherwise one would say, Oh, well, you get to that, and then you might get stuck. That’s one, is why all these things are saying what’s beyond it, and one doesn’t stop here, one goes beyond it. How, you know, the devotee thinks liberation is useless. So, in other words, just the aspect… It means one’s in the spiritual world, one’s not thinking, Wow, it’s so great to be out of the material world. Nobody cares about that. The opportunity to serve Krishna, that’s what’s special.

So, therefore, then those things are being… So, both the not being distracted by the material environment, or lack of it, and then being attracted to serving Krishna. Does that make sense? So that’s always the two. Always remember Krishna, never forget.

Yes.

When we reach the spiritual platform, do we reach the spiritual platform through different levels of consciousness? Not specifically, because an Annamaya is the level of consciousness. It’s just, it’s a detail within that.

You know, Annamaya is just the senses, Pranamaya, extended Sanskrit, Manamaya, then religious principles, and the basically theoretical intellectual, then the actual realized intellectual. Annamaya means on the transcendental platform. You know, so those who get to this platform of realizing the Supersoul, you know, or the Brahma bodies who actually get there, that’s Annamaya also. But then there’s the dynamic Annamaya. That’s greater. But it’s still, you know, still, as we said, you’re adding on to already there. Because Annamaya means you’re on the transcendental platform. So then within that, then there’s all the various relationships. So each one gives a higher. So that’s why then when you come to Prema. So Brahma-Buddha is the first stage in ten. Right? But the first stage, the bud, can happen or not. But once it’s open, then that’s Prema. So that’s the second level. Mahabal is the eighth. Right? So there’s a few in between. But we don’t talk about it much because there’s no use in talking about it. You get yourself to Prema, everything else is going to happen. Right? According to your relationship. Because anyway, the physical body can’t handle beyond Prema. You can only manifest up to Prema within the material body. The material body is not resilient enough to handle beyond that.

You know, if one sense, the happiness of one sense engaged the way we would ideally like it engaged, it makes us so happy we’re bouncing off the walls. Now what happens if all five are working at once? Yeah, it’s just basically like that. Yeah, explode. Because they’re all going in different directions. So you have one, so you’re moving in the same way. But here you have five moving in different directions. So it won’t work.

Yeah, yeah. But that’s a spiritual form, so therefore, you know, he ends up, you know, his arms all the way out like he’s been stretched, or they all go back inside his body. So, like that. You need a spiritual body for that kind of stuff. So that’s why it’s not talked about so much. Because then also we might make the mistake that it’s mundane. Because then the detail up to Prema, then that, to us, has that lofty enough element. But then beyond that, then it appears like the material. Well, the material is just a reflection of that. But we make the mistake, so it’s not talked about as much.

Does that make sense?

The vision of the perfect yogi has two aspects. He sees Krishna in all beings, and he sees every being in Krishna.

The yogi sees Krishna in everything, but he does not think that everything has become Krishna. The yogi rather sees the Lord in the heart of every living entity. Because Krishna is everything, but at the same time he’s separate. You have to be able to deal with both of those at once. So he’s in every living entity. So that’s why everything is working. You know, he’s in every atom between every atom, at the same time as everybody is in him. You know, it’s his pastime, it’s his activities. Like that.

The advanced yogi sees also that all living beings are energy of the Lord and are situated in the energy of the Lord. Srila Prabhupada explains. Outwardly also, every living being is situated in the energy of the Lord, as will be explained in the seventh chapter. The Lord has primarily two energies. Here we’re in the sixth chapter, now Prabhupada’s talking about seventh. The seventh, then, he says, that will define devotional service. So the seventh chapter, because we’ve done karma, then jnana, karma and jnana mixed, now we’re adding jnana to it, then the seventh will give bhakti.

The Lord has primarily two energies, the spiritual, or superior, and material, or inferior. The living entity, although part of the superior energy, is conditioned by the inferior energy. The Lord is always in the Lord’s energy. Every living entity is situated in Him in one way or another. So this is why He’s actually, He’s superior energy, but He’s conditioned by the inferior. So that means He doesn’t become. The soul doesn’t become dead matter. That’s a mistake of the material consciousness. You think that the soul comes from matter, life comes from matter. So both your materialists and your, how do you say, your intellectuals, your pessimists, your intellectuals, they both think the same thing, it’s come from dead matter. No, the soul is beyond, it becomes covered.

So He’s always in the Lord’s energy. He’s never different from that. So He’s either in the spiritual or in the material.

So that means everybody’s in Krishna. They’re in His energies. The self-realized yogi sees the Lord in the heart of everyone and sees that everyone is situated in the Lord. Thus he sees Krishna everywhere because he understands that all living beings are Krishna’s eternal servants, and everything is Krishna’s energy. So everything is Krishna’s energy, so it’s in Krishna, and everybody is servant of Krishna. So Krishna is within them.

For such a person, Krishna is never lost, and he is never lost to Krishna.

So here is that he’s there as Paramatma. Now whether the person is thinking of Krishna or not, Paramatma is there, so Krishna is there, so you can deal properly with every living entity. In the spiritual world, every living entity is always thinking of Krishna. That means Krishna is in their heart.

But by their thinking of Him, He’s there. In the material world, no one thinks of Him, so therefore He has to go there Himself.

It’s hard to get good hired help these days. You’ve got to do it yourself.

Does that make sense? So a living entity can’t live separately from the Lord. It can’t function. But in illusion, he thinks he can, but the Lord still has to be there. So in any case, one appreciates how the Lord is in everyone’s heart. In the spiritual world, it’s about how they have great devotion, and therefore, Krishna is in their heart. And here, whether they have the devotion. If they have that, you have super-soul and devotion, hey, okay, that’s better. But if not, then every living entity’s super -soul is there.

A person in Krishna consciousness… Prabhupada comments in the Purport to verse 30, A person in Krishna consciousness certainly sees Lord Krishna everywhere, and he sees everything in Krishna. Such a person may appear to see all separate manifestations of the material energy, but in each and every instance, he is conscious of Krishna.

So he sees all the separate manifestations, but he understands how Krishna’s connected with it, by one way or another, through Brahman, Paramatma, or Bhagavan. In some way, he sees that. Knowing that everything is a manifestation of Krishna’s energy. Nothing can exist without Krishna, and Krishna is the Lord of everything. This is the basic principle of Krishna consciousness.

Krishna consciousness is the development of love of Krishna, a position transcendental even to material liberation. So just because you understand that, so that love is beyond that, because you can appreciate that… You could intellectually appreciate that he is beyond everything and this and that, but having a relationship is beyond that, because then that invokes the natural sentiments of the living entity. Otherwise, it’s just intellectual.

At this stage of Krishna consciousness…

So here we see material liberation. Generally you don’t see that, you just see liberation, or liberation from material existence. Here is material liberation. That means liberation that’s not in connection with Krishna. It’s not based on a relationship with Krishna. That’s material liberation. So being material, it’s temporary.

It won’t last.

At this stage of Krishna consciousness, beyond self -realization, the devotee becomes one with Krishna in the sense that Krishna becomes everything for the devotee, and the devotee becomes full in loving Krishna. So that’s your brahma-samsparsha.

So he’s completely absorbed.

So here we see that these elements that are there in all these paths are there all the way through.

So this Krishna consciousness goes beyond self-realization, so he knows who he is. But now, knowing who you are is one thing, but then doing something about it, that’s the devotion. Because you know you’re a servant of Krishna. You know you’re not the body. You know you’re Brahman. But then going beyond that, you know you serve Krishna and please Krishna.

Does that make sense?

So in that stage, one becomes one with Krishna in the sense that Krishna becomes everything for the devotee, and the devotee becomes full in loving Krishna. So there’s a oneness there because the mood matches.

So that oneness, that is the lowest. That means, in other words, when Krishna lists the possibilities within the spiritual material sphere, then he comes down from, you know, directly surrendering immediately, then pancharatra, then working for Krishna in nice karma, then sakham, then just being a pious materialist, you know, following the Vedas and like that. Then he mentions, not then he can be a personalist. That’s the bottom of the barrel. So why would it be the bottom?

It’s neutral? Okay, it means you don’t accept the Lord’s existence. But in relationship to this point being made, what happens to things that are the highest in the spiritual world? Where do they end up here? The lowest. So in other words, that concept of oneness with Krishna, where Krishna is not involved, that’s the lowest. For that oneness with Krishna, where it’s a relationship with Krishna, so the oneness is not in form but in mood, that’s the highest. Because the point is, can the jiva become one with Brahman? No, so the form will stay like that. But what they’ve done is they’ve merged their consciousness into that. So that makes the lowest.

You know, because they’ll give the example, just like a green bird in a green tree. But there’s still a green bird in the green tree. It all looks green, yes, but it’s all green. But still there’s two there.

So that’s not going to go away. So what’s wrong is that their consciousness is merged into this oneness where they think they’re God. And there’s no loving relationship.

So they don’t actually understand who they are, who God is. So the self-realization is very meager.

The spiritual, you said, the same concept is the highest. Yes. Because the devotee in that state is completely merged into Krishna, in the sense that Krishna is everything, but there is a relationship. Yes. So it’s here. It’s different. It means this is the perversion. That’s the real thing. It means at this stage of Krishna consciousness, beyond self-realization, that means beyond the material liberation, the devotee becomes one with Krishna, in the sense that Krishna becomes everything for the devotee, and the devotee becomes full and loving Krishna. So there’s a non-difference because all you think about is Krishna, so you can’t separate Krishna from anything you do or think. So there’s a oneness.

Right? But it’s not that physically there is a one. No, that there’s a one is because the only thing you think about and do is connected to Krishna. Krishna is everything to you, so that’s all you ever think about.

An intimate relationship between the Lord and the devotee then exists. Then it’s intimate. So that means also that the devotee, the Lord, is always thinking about.

Only on the basis of such an intimate relationship is it possible to develop universal, all -encompassing love for all creatures.

Srila Prabhupada explains in Bhagavad-gita lecture, L .A., 1969.

So we see this as bringing it up from this yoga process, from sitting on this battlefield, all the way to this intimate relationship with the Supreme Lord.

All within these first six chapters.

So this is what’s special. So when we say Bhagavad-gita is the basis, it doesn’t mean that it’s like handwriting in nursery school.

It means that this is what it’s all based on. Now it’s further details and enhancement of this.

So that’s why the study of these bhakti -sastras is not just some basic thing, you know, like that. Does that make sense? It’s a matter of this is something serious.

Okay, so in the L.A., Bhagavad-gita lecture in L.A., yes, this consciousness, this studying of the tree as Krsna’s energy, as part and parcel of Krsna, will help you to enhance your love for Krsna. Just like you love your child, and he is not with you. You find his shoes and think, oh, these are the shoes of my child. But you do not love the shoe, you love the child. Similarly, as soon as you perceive the energy of Krsna manifested in a different way, you love that entity because you love Krsna. Therefore, if you love Krsna, then you’re all embracing love as a parent. Otherwise, it is useless, and you do not have love. And if you don’t love Krsna, then you reason, here is my American brother, and the American cow is my food.

But your reasoning is false. Both are living creations. Both are part and parcels of Krsna.

You cannot say you love one and yet you will eat the other. This is not an all-embracing love. On the other hand, a Krsna conscious person sees a cow or a dog and knows they are part and parcel of Krsna, even though they have a different body. That does not mean that they are not his brother. So how can he kill his brother? We love Krsna, so we will love all His creations without exception. There cannot be an exception. There cannot be any love without Krsna consciousness. So when you see Krsna’s potency, then you can appreciate Krsna in everything. So that’s then your affection for everything because it’s connected to Krsna.

It doesn’t come just as so much sentiment. That’s quite limited. As you see, even the ones with the greatest amount, it’s limited. You know what I’m saying? Even though so much is there, but it’s still limited. Does that make sense?

The yogi who always sees the Lord as Paramatma in his heart turns into a pure devotee and cannot bear to live for a moment without seeing the Lord within himself. Such a yogi who engages in the service of the Supersoul, understanding that Krsna and the Supersoul are one, remains always in Krsna consciousness in all circumstances. Perfect yogi is he who sees that in both their happiness and their distress, all beings are originally equal.

In other words, the yogi sees that the yogi sees that what is good for himself and what is bad for himself is equally applicable for all other living beings. Therefore, he desires happiness for all others and does not desire suffering for anyone. Like you can see even in the Vrndavana pastimes, then this element is that the mothers of the sons who are married to the gopis, because the gopis aren’t interested in interacting with them, so Madhu Mangal comes and so then they ask Madhu Mangal, you’re a brahmana, can you give us some advice? And so they ask him, it says, our daughters-in-laws are not interested in their husbands, their sons.

So this situation, we wouldn’t wish on even our enemies. We wouldn’t want to see anybody suffer by the family life is not going nicely. Even our enemies, we wouldn’t wish this. So how can we resolve this?

And so then Madhu Mangal becomes very serious and all that and then says, it’s because your daughters have to do this particular worship. You never let them go out, so you have to let them go out and do this worship, I think, of the sun god or something like that. No, actually, he used another name of Cupid.

Like that. So they have to go out in the forest and do this worship.

And so then they think, okay, so they go to their daughters-in-law and tell them you have to go out there and worship this person in the forest during the daytime, right? And so they understand that this means Krishna, but the mother-in-law doesn’t, so the gopis are very happy. So what we’re saying, what the point is here is that therefore he desires happiness for all others, he does not desire suffering for anyone. So it’s just, their saying is that their son is suffering, but they don’t want the daughter-in-law to suffer or someone else to suffer. They don’t want anyone to suffer.

You understand? Because they see everything in relationship to Krishna. At least up to a point here. Because the conjugal relationship doesn’t… They wouldn’t have a… No one in these elders wouldn’t have a problem if Krishna married some gopi, then they’d be happy. But because they’re in parental rasa, they don’t think that their daughter-in-law is off with Krishna.

This is the most important type of equal vision, and a yogi who has attained it is considered the best of all. Out of compassion, you understand, means there’s an equality of just seeing the energies, right? But then you’re seeing it in relationship that they are connected to Krishna.

Right? So that’ll be better.

Out of compassion, such a yogi preaches the message of God for the benefit of all conditioned souls, right? Because their suffering is due to not understanding, so they preach. Right? Because otherwise, technically, to preach would be considered delusory. If you’re in any kind of monist, you know, or voidist, then preaching is actually bogus. Because, what’s the meaning of teacher and taught? Or the process of teaching?

Yeah, no, no. But I’m saying with us. But I’m just saying with them, what would be? Because the teacher is illusory. The concept of duality is illusory, so there is no teacher and taught. And there is no activity, so there’s no teaching.

So if you ever find a Mayavadi or a Buddhist teaching, that’s against their philosophy.

You know. What to do?

You know. But they do it. They’re in maya.

Maya for a cause. Srila Prabhupada describes this stage in the Purport to verse 32. In other words, a devotee of the Lord always looks to the welfare of all living entities. And in this way, he is factually the friend of everyone. He is the best yogi because he does not desire perfection in yoga for his personal benefit. But he tries for others also.

He does not envy his fellow living entities. Here is a contest between a pure devotee of the Lord and a yogi interested only in his personal elevation. The yogi who has withdrawn to a secluded place in order to meditate perfectly may not be as perfect as the devotee who is trying his best to turn every man towards Krsna consciousness. Right? So self-realization means you are benefited. But self-realization, if you realize who you are as self, means you’re a servant. So therefore, you’re always trying to see that you’re assisting in others being with Krsna. Right? That’s what jivas do. That’s what the Lord’s energy does. So then that would mean that those who are not in Krsna consciousness or those who have come to Krsna consciousness, you’d be helping them, cultivating.

So the preaching attitude actually comes from the devotee.

Because the Lord will preach if someone wants to hear. If they don’t, they can’t. Dvaita Acarya, that’s his complaint. You know, he’s there, Supreme Personality of Godhead, Mahavishnu, so what’s the problem? But nobody’s surrendering, so he can’t reciprocate. So therefore, you can only be liberated from material existence by Visnu-tattva. Right? At the same time, Visnu-tattva only responds to your surrender.

So only Lord Caitanya, who’s Krsna in the mood of the devotee, will preach, even though nobody wants to hear.

Right? Does that make sense? So that’s the… In the beginning of this chapter, Krsna explained that the astanga-yogi should practice niscam-karma -yoga till he attains the advanced level of a yoga-aruddha. At this stage, he can give up work and engage solely in yoga practice. In the above section, verses 10 to 32, the Lord described the practice of astanga-yoga in detail. A yogi should leave home and go to a secluded place, stay there alone and engage in severe austerities and rigorous meditation. After a long practice, he can realize the Supersoul and achieve the same liberation in the Supreme, described in Chapter 5. After hearing about these difficult practices, Arjuna declares himself unfit for astanga-yoga. So Krsna, having summarized this all very nicely, then he has to basically say, Well, this is not for me.

Well, let’s try something else here. It’s all very nice. Yeah. Very nice, but… that’s not going to work.

Okay. Anything else? Yes. In the Gita, there are different chapters and different sections. So, who made these chapters and made the sections? Who made the chapters and sections? That would be Vyasudeva himself. Yeah. He would write. He would put them. In other words, Krsna is speaking in this way, and so then, according to the topic, then Vyasudeva will make it into the chapters. Because the idea of when you compile something, then the idea is to make it more clear for whoever is the audience. So in making these chapters, then you understand this topic matter goes together. Right? And then there will be some kind of a Sunday between the two. Does that make sense? So, like that.

Is that okay?

Actually, you said that when writing Gita, for example, there are the verses and there are the chapters. So, you decided to put by chapter? Yes. And after by section? Yeah, that will come naturally. Because, in other words, the different sections are grouped together by the chapter. You know?

Does that make sense? Yes, but because when Krsna was speaking with Arjuna, it was a flow of conversation. It’s a flow, but still you’re moving through what is technically called Adhikaranas. Means you’re making a point. So, an Adhikarana will be a section. Right? And within the Adhikarana, then you’re going to have… So, that means, in other words, there’s a thesis, there’s a point being made. And so then, that will have the thesis itself, it’s explanations, it’s examples, it’s synthesis, it’s conclusion. And then, in that conclusion, it’ll connect to the next Adhikarana. So, just like in the first chapter, the first… No, first Pada. Yeah. In Vedanta Sutra, there’s four chapters, four Adhyayas. Each chapter has four Padas. But within each Pada, there’ll be so many Adhikaranas. Does that make sense?

So, like that. So, the Adhikaranas connect to each other, and then there’s a grouping between the Adhikaranas in one chapter, then that will connect to the next chapter. Then those… Does that make sense? Or next Padas, in this case. And then those Padas, then those will be four Padas. There’s some differences there, but they all are together as one chapter.

Right? Does that make sense? So, four chapters, sixteen Padas, and each Pada has breakdowns.

Right? Does that make sense? So, that’s just the way the literatures are. So, then they’re divided up this way.

Sorry?

Yeah. He gives so that we understand. You know, it’s like a heading. Like, you’ll see, in the commentaries by the Acharyas, then they even give, even like all different things and headings and stuff themselves. One of the Acharyas, I think he connects each verse. Takes each verse and then says, okay, this is doing this, that one’s doing that, and this is the connection. Then he didn’t say the next verse, then this and this and this. That’s like that. Is that Ramanujar?

So, one of them does this. You know? So, it’s so that we can study it. Because the point is, if we’re so intelligent just to hear it, and we figure it out, then what’s the need of writing it down? Right? But since it has to be written down, that generally means, then the intelligence is not so great. So, therefore, these headings are put so that we… Right? Does that make sense? You know? Just like the first chapter. That’s… What’s that? Vishada Yoga. So, then that means the anxiety that is there. But we see two kinds of anxiety. Arjuna, which is basically seemingly a pious anxiety. And Duryodhana, which is a, you know, totally, you know, not so pious anxiety. Though he’s basing on Shastra, but he’s using Niti, and Arjuna’s using Dharma. You know, like that. But the point is, is both are having a problem. So, the solution is Krishna Consciousness.

Right? So, therefore, to start Krishna Consciousness, you have to know who you are. If you don’t know who you are, how will you understand anything else? So, therefore, Krishna starts with the nature of the soul. So, then that defines everything that would be defined basically in the Gita. So, he’s given an overview of the whole thing. Now, Arjuna could have understood from that. You know, that would be quite Upanishadic. Right? But the problem is, is that people haven’t understood from the Upanishads. So, now, he is, therefore, explaining what’s there in the Upanishads. So, then, the third chapter will explain those aspects of the second chapter. So, all the rest of the chapters explain what he’s already said in the second.

Does that make sense?

Yes?

It destroys austerity. Austerity.

How does it destroy austerity? Because austerity means that, well, I mean, of course, the performance of duties, but means restraining the senses. Right? So, how is killing another entity for your senses? How is that austere?

Do you know what I’m saying? Does that make sense?

You ever known a nice drug dealer?

But have you met pleasant meat eaters? Given charity. Now, are there meat eaters that have all kinds of, they create whole riots about the conditions of the slaughterhouse. Right? How their animals are transported, how they’re kept there. They’re going to kill them and eat them anyway, but they want them to be comfortable. Comfortable.

You know what I’m saying? So, that element of mercy on one level is there. But the problem is actually the austerity. Lack of austerity, therefore they’re not, they don’t take that mercy all the way through.

You understand? And intoxication, then it’s just about your experience. Right? When you’re intoxicated, it expands your experience to someone else. No, it just limits your experience to yourself. That’s the nature of it. You know, because you’re aware of the world around you. So, people get intoxicated to not be aware of the world around them.

You understand? Or to not at least be aware in the way they are aware at present. So, it’s all about themselves. Right? So, they don’t care about others. As long as it works for them, they don’t care. How does it come off like that? Because we’ll look at meat eating as morally bad. So, therefore, you’re not nicely, so that’ll be, you know, how do you say it? You know, they’ll say it’s merciless. Well, on intoxication, you’re not austere.

You know what I’m saying? You know, in one sense it works, but the point is, it’s because of our own attachments to that that we’ll look at it that way. Because the point is, meat eating is bad because it’s not connected to Krishna.

You understand? How do you connect it to Krishna?

Right? So, that’s why it’s the problem with it. But we’ll take it. No, meat eating, vegetarian, stands on its own. Right? That’s why some of them will preach vegetarian and not necessarily preach Christian consciousness. Because they became a vegetarian, we consider that was, you know, some good Christian conscious preaching. No. Okay, you made a vegetarian, they’re a little more pious. But unless they’re taking prasad, then what’s the meaning? Because the point is, whatever you eat has to be offered in sacrifice. That’s why in previous ages, then it means those, they could take the animal, put it in the fire, you know, and pull out a new animal. Take an old cow, put it in the fire, and pull out a new one. You know, or the animal was killed and immediately be elevated to a demigod body. You could see him there. So, the point is, it’s through sacrifice. So, therefore, there’s no violence.

You understand? So, there’s no sin.

Does that make sense? So, therefore, the real problem is because of lack of sacrifice. So, lack of sacrifice means self-centered, means it’s not austere. Sacrifice is austere. So, the previous ages, they did an ashrameda yajna. It’s austere.

You understand? So, it’s not a matter of mercy. It’s a matter of austerity.

You know what I’m saying? Why would you kill the animal unless they were required? And then only according to the proper principles. So, to do that, you have to be austere.

You understand?

That’s why I said the problem, all the Pandavas, they hunted animals. You know, how could they do that? They’re pure devotee. You know, the point is, is that, you know, that’s not, that’s not how it’s, that’s not the approach. The approach is duty.

You understand? It’s very different. That’s the problem. So, we take the material environment and make it complete in itself without the Lord. It’s only complete when it’s connected to the Lord.

You know what I’m saying?

If I have a machine that has two wires coming out, and I connect the two wires to themselves, right, and I’ll consider it’s complete, connected, you know, complete, what do you call it? Circuit, yeah. It’s a closed circuit. But is it? No, there’s no life.

You know, so still, there’s a line coming and connecting to it. But I’ll think it’s this circuit that’s doing it. So, until it’s connected to the Lord, you understand? But these are pastimes on the level of the demigods and all that. So, that’s why it’s lower, right? We don’t see that, you know, Krishna and animal sacrifice and, you know, with the brajavasis and things like that. There’s no need. It’s a whole different thing because there it’s based on all these attachments to the rules and regulations. You’re engaging karma. You’re dealing with neophyte devotees.

Right? So, one neophyte devotee has a tendency to not understand or appreciate another one. So, that’s the problem. So, in other words, we’ll do it. If it’s wrong to do it, then I’ll do it. But if someone could do it, then I would want the option. This is the problem.

You know, because it means you kill the animal, the sacrifice, and there’s no sin, there’s no reaction. But the point, the problem is, next life, you’ll be the animal, you know, being engaged in sacrifice by this pious, you know, animal who’s now the king. Right? And you’ll get your head cut off. Right? But you’ll attain to the heavenly planets. And don’t worry, next lifetime, you’ll be the king and that king, you know, he’ll be the animal. So, like that, you just go on forever. You know what I’m saying? So, that remains. So, you want to be involved in that? So, that’s stupid.

You know, because the point is, human beings are given certain things to eat. That’s your food. Right? You know, is it wrong that the birds eat bugs? Right? Or frogs eat bugs? No?

Actually, the next one.

Okay. Yeah, you understand? So, it’s not a problem because that’s their food. So, vegetables, dairy products, that’s our food. But eating it without offering to Krishna, that’s still sin. So, it still has to be offered to Krishna. So, it’s not our food.

I just, some devotees say like that just because they don’t remember. So, they just go through and it just comes like that. But I’m just pointing out so it doesn’t, doesn’t, it’s clear. So, it doesn’t get stuck.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • We progress because of faith.
  • If we are convinced and striving for perfection, Kṛṣṇa will fill the gap.
  • We must be convinced that Kṛṣṇa consciousness covers for everything else.
  • 10:00 Prescribed duties are a medium of expressing devotion to Kṛṣṇa, but prescribed duties do not generate attachment to Kṛṣṇa, unless they are performed in connection with Kṛṣṇa.
  • Connecting sex life to Kṛṣṇa. Varṇāśrama makes it easier to connect things to Kṛṣṇa.
  • West do not have definition for male, female, intimacy etc, they cannot even define sex desire, so how can they get rid of it?
  • 23:00 Material desires are born of mental speculation, because material enjoyment never works, but still we are trying to find ways that in would work.
  • By following Vedic principles we get the best out of material arrangements, and we can then see that it still does not satisfy us. Combining knowledge with proper practice, we get realization that we get true happiness only in connection with Kṛṣṇa. But we still continue performing activities proper for our position.
  • 33:30 When the mind is controlled by spiritual intelligence, it will control senses and prevent them from engagement in material sense gratification
  • Material life means that spiritual life is covered by conditioned nature. Conditioned nature does not stand on its own.
  • The writers of other Vedic schools, such as Patañjali, know the conclusions given by Vyāsadeva, but they are trying to catch people who deviate, and therefore they do not give those conclusions in their writings.
  • Liberation is only half of brahma-bhūta stage, the other half is moving towards devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
  • Removing passion is the central point to achieve liberation. Passion is sense of enjoyment, material desires. In the material world, passion is based on ignorance, abhidheya is based on sambandha. Impersonalists apparently remove passion, but ignorance remains, because they don’t know who they are, therefore the passion will again come up.
  • When we change our identity to “I am servant of Kṛṣṇa,” we are no longer dealing with sambandha in ignorance, we are dealing with the sandhinī potency, sat, eternality. Then goals will be pleasing Kṛṣṇa, and abhidheya will be under cit potency, instead of passion, and therefore it will be spiritual.
  • To move from bhāva to prema through the brahma-bhūta platform, one has to have that dynamic desire, only then one will get the association of nitya-siddhas
  • Brahmavādīs also achieve the ānanda-maya stage, but there are more deep levels to that.
  • There are 10 stages of prema, the material body can only handle the first two of them.
  • In the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa is in everyone’s heart because everyone has love for Him, but in the material world He has to be there as Paramātmā
  • Liberation without connection to Kṛṣṇa is temporary.
  • 77:00 Kṛṣṇa consciousness goes beyond spiritual understanding.
  • Feeling of oneness with Kṛṣṇa is the lowest end of spiritual understanding, the highest is oneness of mood in relationship
  • 81:30 Bhagavad-gītā is the basis. Bhakti-śāstrī study is serious.
  • Residents of the spiritual world do not wish suffering for anyone.
  • 90:00 Supreme Lord will preach, but only if someone is interested. But as Lord Caitanya, as a devotee He delivers all.
  • Discussion on the structure of Bhagavad-gitā and other Vedic literatures
  • Discussion on how meat eating destroys austerity, intoxication -mercy

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