Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #29

Bhagavad-gītā Seriatim #29

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Okay, so now if we understand this knowledge about, this knowledge about the Supreme, then we are able to, I say, come to the transcendental platform.

So, a self-realized soul is able to bridle the urges of his senses, verse 23. The senses will continue to push us until the time of death. But it is the duty of the transcendentalist to try strenuously to control them. Srila Prabhupada writes, There are the forces of talk, forces of anger, forces of mind, forces of the stomach, forces of the genitals, and forces of the tongue. One who is able to control the forces of all these different senses and the mind is called Goswami or Swami. Such Goswamis live strictly controlled lives and forego altogether the forces of the senses. Bhagavad Gita 5.23, Purport.

Right, so we were discussing before is that one is able to do this because of the using spiritual intelligence is coming from the platform of using consciousness.

Because consciousness comes along with intelligence. So if our endeavors are according to that, then we are able to control. Because the point is, the nature of the jiva is choice. So there always has to be that element of choice. So it means that option is there. So if you apply the consciousness properly, then we’ll see that it becomes a lot easier. Otherwise, if we’re not conscious, then we’re in that situation because of the choice that we’ve made in the past. So we’re put in that situation. So it still is choice. We can say, but that’s predestined. No, the predestined is simply the results of your previous action. You performed an activity. Then the results of that come to you in the future. So when they come to you, it’s still part of your free will. So it’s choice. But now when that comes, at every moment you have the ability to make a choice. So if you are conscious, use the intelligence, then one can better choose what to do.

A self-realized person is beyond the dualities that arise from doubt because he sees everyone as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. His Kṛṣṇa conscious activities bring welfare to all living beings. By acting only for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, he is freed from anger and material desires. He is self-realized, self-disciplined, and is constantly endeavoring for liberation. He is sure to achieve liberation in Kṛṣṇa.

So how does one get beyond dualities that arise from doubt?

By having knowledge.

So if you have knowledge, then there’s not going to be a problem coming from dualities. Why? Why won’t this happen?

Why won’t duality happen?

You can see everything in its ultimate relationship to Kṛṣṇa, so you can see that it’s not one thing or the other. Yes. Okay. I understand. It’s that duality is there because you see a complete difference in two different things. Right? It’s hot and it’s cold. But if you see its temperature, it’s not actually a duality. Right? There’s a difference, but it’s not a duality.

So if one has knowledge, then one won’t be bewildered by dualities that arise from doubt. Because if there’s a doubt, it is simply that you’re not able to understand how something is connected to the Supreme. But you don’t have a doubt that it’s not connected. Because if you have a doubt about that, then you will be dealing with dualities. Because Kṛṣṇa is non-dual. Everything is Him. At the same time, He’s separate from everything.

This is His unique position.

So if you have proper understanding, proper knowledge, you’re trying to apply it, one will not be bewildered by the dualities. One may have something to try to figure out, but won’t be bewildered.

Then, okay, because He sees everyone as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, His Kṛṣṇa conscious activities bring welfare to all living beings. Why would this be? Why would, because He sees everyone as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, then all His activities would benefit everybody.

Because He sees that everything is interrelated. Yes, He sees everything as interrelated to Kṛṣṇa. So then if it’s related to Kṛṣṇa, then what His activities will, what will be the nature of His activity? It will be service to Kṛṣṇa through the living entities. Yes, it will be service to Kṛṣṇa, which will be involving these living entities. Because as soon as something touches Kṛṣṇa, then it becomes perfect. If it doesn’t touch Kṛṣṇa, then it’s always a problem.

Right? So that’s simply what one’s trying to do. Bring everything in line or in touch with Kṛṣṇa. As soon as that happens, then everything becomes fine. Everything becomes perfect.

Okay.

Then, by acting only for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, He is free from anger and material desires. Right? Why by acting only for Kṛṣṇa, He is free from anger and material desires?

Yes. Because He is not attached to the fruits of His labor, and He realizes that He doesn’t own anything anyway. Okay. So, but how does that connect with anger? Anger arises… Explain material desires. Yes. Anger arises from frustration brought on by material attachments. In other words, if you see something as yours, then if it works nicely how you want it, then you’ll be happy. If it doesn’t work nicely, then you’re working in the realm of duality. So, if it’s not nice, it’ll have to be… Nasty. Yeah. Nasty.

Happy. Bad. Right? Okay. You understand? But if it’s for Kṛṣṇa, there are no dualities. Means there’s differences, but it’s all in connection to Kṛṣṇa. So, it’s just a matter of how to work things out to make things so they work nicely for Kṛṣṇa. Right? So, you don’t have material desires, there won’t be any anger. Anger comes from material desire. Because when material desire is frustrated, then there’ll be anger. Right? Does that make sense? From the material platform. If it’s for Kṛṣṇa, you know, like Hanuman gets angry, you know, and then fights. You know, like that. That’s another thing. Because then he’s conscious of Kṛṣṇa. But if he’s not conscious of Kṛṣṇa, then that anger will give trouble.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay, he is self-realized, self-disciplined, and constantly endeavoring for liberation. Okay, so if he’s acting only for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, how will that bring about self-realized, self-disciplined, and constantly endeavoring for liberation?

Yes.

Okay.

Self-disciplined. Okay. And then constantly endeavoring for liberation.

Yes. In other words, that’s the point of these sections, is that it’s the activity that’s important. In other words, you have knowledge. What will be done with knowledge? It’ll be applied. Right? There’ll be activity. It’s applied. So that applied knowledge means there’s some action that’s going on, some activity.

So, therefore, it’s that through applying this knowledge, then all perfection comes. Right? Because it’s Kṛṣṇa. Because otherwise you can know Kṛṣṇa is everything. But if you do nothing, then what happens? No results. No results. Means you’ll be situated on the Brahman platform as a situation.

But nothing results from that. So being situated on the Brahman platform will, of course, have a certain level of happiness.

Right? But the point is it’s static. It’s a fixed thing. So, basically, it’s happiness is that you’re not disturbed by material distress.

Right? You know what I’m saying? You know, like you’re sitting out on some island in the middle of nowhere, right? You know, but there’s plenty of, you know, coconuts and things to eat, like that. You know, so there’s no distress. Right? But it doesn’t mean you’re not going to get bored. Right? Groundhog’s Day. Hmm? Groundhog’s Day. Groundhog’s Day. It’s like the same day repeating over and over again.

Could you explain to me? Yeah, it was a movie where this person, main character, he just experienced the same day over and over again. Oh, I see. And that day happened to be Groundhog’s Day. Yeah, exactly. Why Groundhog’s Day, not Thanksgiving or Christmas? I guess it could have been. New Year’s, you know. Every night would have been a party. So they have something against Groundhog’s Day. Oh, right.

Why not? Why Groundhog’s Day? Why not Mother’s Day?

You were going to say something? No. No? Okay. Right, so in other words, there must be activity.

Otherwise, because the soul, by nature, you know, being energy, there’s the need of variety. Right? To be in that environment of variety. But the nature is, even though they’re in that environment of variety, the variety is not for our pleasure. Right? It’s to be shared with someone else for their pleasure. Right? Does that make sense? So that’s the natural environment. So this Brahman realization will not make one satisfied. What is the attractive feature of the Brahman realization? Lack of suffering. Lack of suffering. Right? The living entity being Satchitananda, then Ananda doesn’t like to be unhappy.

So the Brahman platform then offers the element that there won’t be distress. But the point is, is just lack of distress is not happiness.

They call it Brahmananda. Because it seems like it’s something, you know, moving forward from the material situation. So technically it is. But the point is, is you’re going from a natural position of the soul to the natural position, meaning not involved in the material energy, but that’s not the full thing. Because then there’s, you know, so Sat is there. They think that there’ll be Ananda. But if there’s only Sat, how will there be Ananda? Right? Because why would we consider that Brahmananda would be Ananda?

Because basically you said it, but we’re just trying to take it a step further. Because we would be relieved when we get there. Yes, there’s a relief from when we remove the material pain. You’re going to say? Because in the material world, that’s what we think happiness is. Yes. It means, of course, yes, that’s also that. Material happiness means removal of pain. If you say that to people, they go, what do you mean? You know, but it’s actually what it is. You’re hungry, so therefore then eating is pleasurable. Now what happens when you’re not hungry? Eating’s not pleasurable. Right? So that’s the whole point. It’s only when there’s a pain, then when you remove that pain, then you call it pleasure. So it’s going to be that aspect. But now, but the point here is that, so that’s the method here. But now when you take the difference of material involvement and lack of material involvement, the difference between the two, that’s the Ananda. Right? The hungrier you are, the better the food tastes. Right? So being involved in the material energy and then being liberated from that, that’s a very big gap. So in that gap, that’s where the Ananda is. Right? But what happens when one is now situated and is liberated after the initial element of noticing the difference between the gap? The gap is not so big. The gap is not so big. In fact, the gap doesn’t exist. So that means then there’s no Ananda anymore. Right? So Ananda is when there’s activity. It means when you have cit, will be activity, then it will give a result, Ananda.

Right? So the Mayavadis don’t understand. They’re saying it’s all just sat. But there’ll be no Ananda if there’s not cit. Right? So they’re making their endeavor, they’re coming to that platform so then they’ll experience something better from being less entangled in the material energy. What they don’t understand is that that’s the nature of the soul. And if they don’t believe in that, then that’s Maya, that they’re experiencing this Ananda from performance of activities that situate them on the liberated platform. Do you understand? So by their own philosophy, then it’s unobtainable, this Ananda. Because to experience the Ananda, you would still have to appreciate the experience of going from not understanding this to understanding this. Do you understand? So there’s a process, there’s an activity. And it’s in the difference that the appreciation is there. But if it’s all one, there can’t be a difference. There can’t be any movement or activity. Therefore, the Ananda is not obtainable.

Do you understand?

But, you know, being an illusion, they don’t notice this. So, you know, like that.

This is the problem.

Okay.

Okay. He is sure to achieve liberation in Krishna. Why would he achieve liberation in Krishna? Why not in something else?

Yes, he’s thinking of Krishna and acting for his pleasure and and I got one last one. Close, but Okay, giving the results of the actions to Krishna.

But your devotion to Krishna. Okay, it’s getting better, but you’re still dealing with with the process and the result.

Knowledge. So what is that knowledge?

Yes, who we are and our identity. Right. So that relationship. So because he understands his relationship with Krishna. Right. He’s not saying, I’m Brahman. He’s Brahman. It’s all Brahman. This means we’re Brahman. But we’re, we’re, we’re, you know, small Brahman. And Krishna is unlimited Brahman. Right. So we are the servant. So because we understand ourself as servants of Krishna. Therefore, coming to the liberated platform, one doesn’t stop at that point. Because it’s not the goal. The goal is beyond. So there’s still the process of engaging in Krishna’s service on the Brahman platform. Right. Because you still see yourself and Krishna and activities to please Krishna. Right. While the others, they think that all differences stop at that platform. So therefore, all, all, all activity stops. Therefore, what they don’t actually realize is all results also stop.

Right. But the devotee, that’s why he’s on the Brahma-bhuta platform. Not in the platform. He’s liberated, but we’ll call that platform Brahma -bhuta.

All these symptoms of a liberated soul are difficult to achieve. Why then, in verse 26, Krishna says that serious devotees are assured of liberation in the Supreme in the very near future. Srila Prabhupada explains. Just one thing on here. We’ve been going through here and we’re constantly using this liberation in the Supreme. You know, attaining the Supreme.

You understand? So why, why are these things being used? Why, why this language?

Why not something a little bit we consider more devotional?

Yes. So that it reaches a brother.

A brother.

Brother.

Broth. Brother.

Brooder.

Breeder? Brother.

Broader.

Okay. So it means that living entities in the material world, they’ll be contaminated by, by the sense of the heavenly planets and the sense of impersonalism.

Right? Karma and beyond. And the, you know, common point is that they’ll be looking at, okay, I’m in a certain place and by certain activities I will get to another place and that will give me happiness. Right? So they’re both looking at the, the elements of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana, but they’re not seeing them in their complete form of connection with the Supreme. Right? So they, they can’t see that, that knowledge and that happiness of being free from the material element, you know, and being situated on the transcendental platform is obtainable while performing activities in connection with the Lord. Right? Yes. I was wondering whether the word in is used. In the Supreme. Um.

What, what word would you prefer?

By, under, over, around, next to.

In has an impersonal connotation. In? It could. But I’m just saying do you have an alternative word?

Okay. But then, but then you’d have to apply that in other things, you know. You know, then, you know, he’s in the groove or he’s in love or, you understand? So in other words, you’re immersed in, you’re immersed.

You’re in that environment, that, that environment becomes the situation that you work from. You know, that, because unless you’re in a situation you perform a particular activity. So being in the situation of absorption in the Supreme. You know, being in that situation, then you’re able to see everything in connection with the Lord. Because the point is if Krishna is everything, then we are in the Supreme.

There is no such thing as outside.

You know, because there is no asamurdhva, no equalness, no above. So there, there is only in. That’s why I say as soon as we, we say what’s the alternative word, there isn’t one.

You know, then you will be by the Supreme. You know, is that, is that.

Yeah, he’s so in next to love. You know.

He’s so by the side of love.

You know, so it’s, it’s.

Does that make sense? They use these things, but just because they’re using proper terms. You know, they give them a bad name. Like that. But so we’ll use them correctly. Means if there’s an alternative, we will use it. If there’s a better term like that, that is less like this, we’ll use that. Because this is the terms they use. But if it’s actually our term. You know, like nice karma, they use it all the time, but it’s our turn. So we will use it, but we’ll explain what real nice karma is. You know, what real liberation is. What real transcendence is. What real Brahman is. Like this. So certain things, you know, you just don’t. Is that, does that make sense? You know, like that.

Okay. Another aspect is, as we can see is from here is. This universe, the more universal element of saying in the Supreme. Right. Means that you can preach to a broader base.

Right. So just bringing it out from the point of, the key is Prabhupada is constantly using these terms. Right. But we’ll say, no, he’s just preaching direct Krishna consciousness. Yes, he is. But if you use these terms. Other people, they’re getting that benefit. And they’re intellectually being moved forward. But you avoid their particular doubts and misgivings that come up from their own opinions or perspective.

So this is, these are the keys to soft preaching. You know, so-called soft preaching. Right. It’s not that you change the philosophy. No, you just change the words by which you refer to the philosophy.

Right. That’s the point. But it still is very direct philosophy.

That doesn’t change.

Because people are attached to their words. You know, like this. But they have concepts that go with the words. So what we’re doing is taking their words that they’re comfortable with and redefining the concept. Right. Broadening it, making it, actually bringing it to a proper understanding. You know, they’ll have some understanding. But it’s not enough. So one has to improve the quality of it. So you’re starting with what they have and then from there, taking it further. Like Bhaktivinoda Thakur mentions that there’s no, there’s no actually, you know, bad idea.

Like that. It’s just a matter of understanding where that idea actually fits into the bigger picture.

You know, the problem is, is you think a detail is everything.

Right. And if anything has some validity, it’s because of its connection to Krishna. But the thing is, is not appreciating that connection. Then they’re absorbed in very, you know, minor things.

It’s not big enough to actually use it in their life and the situation that they’re in. Does this make sense? So it’s important to note through here, is all these things, these, these can all be used for anybody.

No one will think they’re bad. Right.

Okay. Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport, right, that’s how Krishna is saying that very, very soon someone will come to this platform. The fish brings up its offspring simply by looking at them. The tortoise brings up his offspring simply by meditation. The eggs of the tortoise are laid on land and the tortoise meditates on the eggs while in the water. Similarly, the devotee in Krishna consciousness, although far away from the Lord’s abode, can elevate himself to that abode simply by thinking of him constantly, by engagement in Krishna consciousness.

He does not feel the pangs of material miseries. This state of life is called Brahma nirvana, or the absence of material miseries, due to being constantly immersed in the Supreme. Okay, so how would we use this word, Brahma nirvana? Why would we use the word nirvana? Nirvana is non-existent. Non-existent, okay. So, but is this nirvana we’re talking about, is this like what the impersonalists or the Buddhists are saying? No, but at the same time there is a similarity.

What is the similarity?

It’s outside the material world. It’s outside the material world, okay. Lack of material miseries. Sorry? Lack of material miseries. Okay, but that’s kind of like you’re defining the position, you know, the results.

But the common point is, what is the working element?

Okay, your absorption, that’ll be processed or that’ll be part of the identity. There’s something here that’s common. Inaction. Inaction.

But why inaction? Why would there be inaction?

Because you’re not working for yourself, you’re working for Krishna. You’re not working for yourself, you’re working for Krishna. So, but what’s the process, how would you define not working, when you work for yourself?

Karma. Karma, okay. But why is it karma? Personal desire. But what turns it into karma? Because the same activity not being connected to Krishna is not karma.

Results. Results, okay. Results.

What do you mean by results? Results for you. Results for you, yeah. But if it’s not karma, then results are? For Krishna. But there’s still one common thread here, we’re not… Consciousness. Consciousness, okay. And then, what is that consciousness?

You know, what makes the difference? You’re not the body. You’re not the body, okay. But see, in all these things, there’s still this common, they’ll say, also my body say we’re not the body, Buddhists will say… The question is that we’re not the supreme enjoyer. We’re not the supreme enjoyer, okay. So, if you think you’re the supreme enjoyer, what is that? You’re doing karma. Ignorance. Karma. There’s one other term that would be most appropriate. Ego.

Yes, okay, because there’s identity. Ahankara. Ahankara? It’s always fun, you know. And when you hear what the word is, you’re going to go, ah. Detachment. Detachment. Means that’ll come up from it. Means we will detach. But why are you detached from it?

Understanding the real identity. Okay, understand the real identity. What’s when you don’t understand the real identity?

Covered by… Covered by? Maya illusions. You understand? Illusion is the common element. Right? Because they’ll say the material world’s illusory. So simply you remove that illusory concept. There is no material world. And therefore, one is then situated in nirvana.

Right? But we’re saying the same thing. But the difference is, is we say this energy exists. But there’s an illusion that we think this energy is for us to enjoy. So when we remove that illusion, we’re still situated here. We can still interact with the Lord’s energies. And be involved in activity and engage it in the Lord’s service. But one is on the platform of nirvana. Right? Because one is freed from the illusion of material existence. Right? So you’re still working with the exterior energy. But you’re no longer under the control of the… You know, you’re no longer under the control of Maya. You’re no longer an illusion. So that’s Brahma nirvana.

Right? So that’s the real Brahma nirvana. So you can see they’ve caught a glimpse of it. This is what I’m saying is that what Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, as a beginning point, there’s no wrong thought. It’s just that… Because what they think is… Okay, being in the material world, you’re suffering. And the living entity wants to be happy. So to get rid of suffering, then you have to get rid of those things that generate the suffering. What’s generating the suffering is attachment to the material energy and endeavors in that to get that because you think that will give you happiness. But it can’t give the soul happiness or the lack of soul. Right? But it means we’re not going to… Right? Gain from there. So, therefore, you get rid of all interactions with material energy. Right? Then, therefore, you’ll be free. But they don’t understand this. But they think the material energy doesn’t exist. But it does exist. That’s the point. Brahman exists. And Brahman has all this variety of manifestations. That’s where they can’t understand. So the concept that to not be involved in the material energy, that’s actually the proper thing. Right? So they’re understanding one part of it, but not the whole thing. They haven’t understood God. That’s the weakness. Right? You understand? So in dealing with this for ourselves or for others, or in preaching, the point is that it’s not, oh, this is all my bodies, you’re all nonsense, this, that, because what is that? That presentation would be coming from which material element?

Mode of ignorance? Okay. Yes, I mean, that’ll be there. But there’s something else that would technically, in that way of saying its origin, would come from the mode of goodness.

What comes from the mode of goodness that makes all your problem here in the material world?

The mind. You understand? So it’s coming from the platform of the mind. But if you use intelligence, then intelligence you discern that, okay, this part of what you’re saying is correct, but the rest of it, the context in which you’re actually applying it doesn’t work. That’s the illusion. Right? You’re saying becoming free from illusion is what’s going to make you happy. We will also say that. But the problem is, in your application of this philosophy, you’re not becoming freed from the illusion. You’re still in illusion. Right? Because you still see that, you know, yourself separate from the Lord, the creation separate from the Lord, the process, everything separate from the Lord. So that’s illusion.

That the material energy, its manifestations are here. Right? That it’s specifically here because someone has some conscious material consciousness or something that, therefore, it’s manifest. But the process of its manifestation and the potencies behind it, that’s not illusory. Right? So it exists, but it’s an illusion that you think it’s just like, why is there a mental, you know, mental asylum?

Because they’re insane people. But the people who run it, right, in theory are not supposed to be insane. You know, there’s always a limit to your analogies. Here’s the limit. You understand?

So, but it’s not that people and places to live and this and that and interactions are illusory. It’s just that the insane people, their concept is illusory. So if by, through knowledge, you bring them to the proper understanding, right, removing all their fears and doubts, then they can function, at least supposedly, within the greater society. Right? Which is not that far of a step because it means it’s a matter of just how crazy you are, right? In other words, the whole society is crazy, so you’re just a little too crazy for everyone, so therefore you’re kept on the side, right? But as soon as you’re a little less crazy, then you can… Right? So the point is, does that make sense? So in other words, they’re taking the illusion is how they’re perceiving it, but it’s not that it’s not there.

You know, it actually is there. But how they perceive it, what values they give to it, that’s the illusion.

Yes? How do you explain the difference between like, perceiving through the mind, through the intelligence, through the ego? How do you find the difference? Difference. How can we know whether I’m living through my intelligence or the mind? The mind is, it accepts and rejects. That’s all it does. So in other words, you don’t necessarily need any intellectual support. It’s just the way it is. Right? You like something. You know, what? No, it’s just the way it is. You just like it. Intelligence means you discern. You know, what’s the common point, what’s the difference? Right? So that’s why we’re saying here, what’s the common point, you find that, then you have the platform for discussion. Then you start showing the difference. In other words, if you haven’t found the common point, they will feel that you don’t understand what they’re talking about. Right? So if you catch that, then you have a common platform to discuss from. Then you show how what they’re thinking of is not going far enough. Right? Or it’s application, or it’s process, it’s goal, it’s elements. You know, there’s something wrong there in Sambandhavade and Prayojana. Therefore, they’re not going to end up with the right results.

Does this make sense? Right? You know, so the false ego is going to be, means, the ego is false, is mode of ignorance. So that’s just based on, this is just the way it is, but it’s also mind. Intelligence also, you’re discerning for the mind to make a, how do you say, decision. Right? So technically, it’s all basically mind. The subtle body is mind, but it has these subdivisions of mind, intelligence, consciousness, false ego. Right? But it’s basically, that’s what it’s whole function is.

Yes. Because the point is, there’s no need to explain why you like Krishna. Because the point is, it’s connected to Krishna, that’s the natural position. So, it’s not that, that means, if things are too intellectual, you can’t function with other people. So there has to be some naturalness of just the mind in that, some acceptance. So the problem is not that, that process is going on, the problem is that process is not happening in connection to Krishna. So it happens in connection with Krishna, there’s no problem.

Only in the beginning, but otherwise, Mother Vishoda, it’s not, she’s using intelligence to express her affection to Krishna, but it’s not that the affection itself needs intelligence to define it.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So that’s why, action, that’s where the intelligence is applied. Right? It’s not so, does that make sense? So this, this personal aspect is very much part of our life. So it’s not, it’s not a problem. The difficulty is because we’ve been misusing it so long. Therefore, we put more emphasis on, you know, talking about the transcendental and this and that because we can’t discriminate. But otherwise, many times we’ll be discussing something and the process of attaching the mind to Krishna and attaching the material energy is the same thing. You know, by association, by contemplation, one develops that attachment. So if you always think of Krishna and you’re always associating with the devotees, right? Then, that’s going to develop attachment to Krishna. Just like being in the material environment associating with those who are materially attached and meditating upon the material benefits, the material nature. Then, one will develop that particular attachment.

Right? Process is the same. But, if we… So, that’s why the emphasis is on Krishna because until that’s there, just seeing it from that medium generally will be indirect because the reason that we’re thinking in that environment is because of our conditioned nature. Our conditioned nature is there because of our own identity, our own endeavors.

Right? So, this particular conditioned nature is developed.

And from that conditioned nature developing, then, we’ll have natural attraction repulsion to working within certain environments. But, so we can connect that to Krishna but we’re starting from our conditioned nature because of our own attachments.

You understand? So, that will always… Though it’s good, but it’s always in a weaker position than if the connection to Krishna is direct. So, what we’re doing here is discriminating between… means what’s action and, you know, what activities are means all the aspects of samana, abhidaya, and prayojana. But, we’re now seeing them in connection to Krishna. And, though our attachments are more for the material energy than for Krishna, still, that desire to obtain Krishna is there, but we’re being realistic and starting from the position we’re in. So, therefore, the karma yoga begins. Then, as that matures, you add the element of jnana. I mean, there has to be some jnana in any way to make it… to connect it to Krishna. But, that gets more and so, then one becomes more knowledgeable and detached. Then one’s able to function in that platform not as much from that this is what I want to do as I want to serve Krishna and this is what I can do.

You know what I’m saying? And, does that make sense? So, so, it adjusts. So, these fine points of that adjustment and what’s… what is, you know, the path of that adjustment and what are the obstacles on that path. So, that’s what we’re discussing and defining here. So, that’s why, then, it’s Buddha yoga because it takes intelligence to discriminate that you’re working for Krishna but… and it’s engaging your conditioned nature but it’s not because of… it can start from because you like dealing in that and the results of that but ultimately it’s got to get to the point of that just this is an appropriate medium to use because you can’t use some other medium.

Right? You know, you can’t do physical work for Krishna if you’re not physically strong. You know? So, if you are, then you can do that. If you’re not, you can’t.

Does that make sense? You know, it’s just like, let’s say, someone, all they did was physical work all day as a karmi. That’s how they made their living. They’ve been doing that for years. It would probably be very hard for them to sit down behind a computer all day and do something for Krishna. But someone who sat down behind a computer all day before they became Krishna conscious, it would be easy to sit down behind a computer all day and do things for Krishna. Does that make sense? So, it’s just the medium to work with.

So the point is, is here we’re trying to find the common thread because all there is is Krishna’s creation. All there is is, so the mind, the intelligence, the false ego, these are defined. The things that they will work with are defined. You know, what you can do with those things are already defined. This is the primary creation.

So you can’t do something outside what are the laws of nature. Right? So then, so it’s a matter of coming out of the illusion on how you’re dealing and understanding all these elements and now connecting that to Krishna.

so the easiest because we can’t see the difference, right? In other words, the spiritual intelligence isn’t developed so we can’t tell the difference between matter and spirit. You know, in the way of when you work, in other words, matter is just another aspect of spirit. It’s an inferior spirit but unable to see that then we can see okay, there’s spiritual which is not matter and then there’s matter which is not spiritual. Right? Why isn’t it spiritual? Because we’re not connecting it to the spiritual. But so, so because we’re able to discriminate that much we take advantage of that. So it’s not wrong that we see this difference but it’s not complete. But we start with that. So therefore, give up all those activities and situations that we identify with as the controller and enjoyer and put ourselves into situations and activities right, that will, that are connected to Krishna. So therefore, we go to the temple, we, you know, do all these activities in the temple and everything like that because there it’s obviously direct, it’s spiritual. But with time, sorry? Yes, that’s direct. Now with time you can see that also what’s in your house could be connected to Krishna. You know what I’m saying? Same activities can be done. You can also cook at your house for Krishna. You can also clean your house for Krishna. You know? Does that make sense? But, because you think it’s my house and it’s for my enjoyment therefore, that gets in the way. So when, when it’s purified then one is able to see that more but it’s still, it’s my house and so I start to do it but then that’s indirect. But when it comes that just serving Krishna and you’re using the house and stuff like that then it’s becoming more and more towards the direct. But still, nothing’s as direct chanting the holy name associating with the Vaisnava like this. Does that make sense? So, the idea is you’re starting with whatever the person has but you want to make sure that, in other words, they’ll be inspired but you don’t want it to become overdone.

Right? You know, the person is, you know, tends towards karma. So, and getting a result for Krishna and all that is there but if that’s emphasized too much there’s a problem. Right? Okay, we can go out to distribute all these books for Krishna, you know, bring home money for Krishna and all these different things and, you know, then they can get inspired and then they wonder who can distribute the most books and everything like that because it’s the Krishna consciousness is prominent but their inspiration to do that comes from that competitive nature or, you know, some, whatever is the nature that you’re taking, whatever you’re using, right, to inspire. But now, if that’s made too prominent, you know, it’s whoever distributes the most books and they get this for, say, they get this recognition, this, that, after a while it’s just for that recognition and all that so then they’ve fallen back again. You know, there’s an African saying, you know, with so much trouble he climbed up the mountain to get to the top only to fall down the other side. You know. So they’ve gotten up to a very high platform. That’s why also it’s very dangerous to criticize devotees who have done something because they have done it. So Prabhupada’s point was unless you’ve done what they’ve done, then you can criticize, okay, I’ve done what you’ve done and, but, you made this mistake and so if you would stop that then you would be better situated. But if you haven’t done it, you know, I’m saying, you know, sitting around and just complaining about the big book distributor, you know, whose, you know, head is the size of a, you know, how do you say, you know, Howard Estation or something, then, but the point is he’s distributed books. He’s done something. Have you done that? If you haven’t done it how can you say, oh, this is wrong? Of course it’s wrong but that’s, that’s textbook. How are you going to help them? What are you going to do? How are you going to bring that out? That you can’t do. So criticizing, anybody can do. So for you it’s not actually just, you know, helping. It’s actually kutinata, fault finding. So it’s an anarta in your own life. So you’re talking about he’s got anartas in his life but you’re pointing them out as an anarta in your life.

Right? But another big book distributor would be able to say something or someone who has accomplished something in some other area. You know, someone else, a big manager, maybe he’s not big but he can see the common point of accomplishment and from that accomplishment then being distracted.

You know what I’m saying? So, we want to make sure that someone doesn’t get overly into the jnan aspect or overly into the karma aspect because they’ll get distracted. That’s, that was the point of the example. Someone’s doing something very nice for Krishna but they’re getting, being distracted by it. You understand? So then it becomes, that, that distraction becomes an obstacle. So now, if they can do that, understand it and move forward, that’s the easiest and best. If they can’t, you might have to remove them from that situation and put them in a situation where they can discriminate between the matter and spirit. Right? And once that’s developed, then again, naturally they’ll go back to that position. That’s why you see someone’s a manager, they would get distracted, probably take them out of that position, give them association, put them in the very, you know, direct devotional environment and then once they come their intelligence starts to work again, then he would put them back as a manager. You know, people say, well how can you do that? They’ve done wrong, but done wrong what? Done wrong in illusion, but now if they’re not working in illusion, then what’s the wrong? Right? And they say, no, no, but they’ve done this, they must get the reaction for that, but then what is this action reaction? What is that? Is that spiritual? No, that’s material. So in other words, they have faith in the material energy that it’s real, it has substance. So you’ve done something wrong in illusion, therefore, you must be punished in illusion. But illusion, it doesn’t mean anything, it’s illusion. So if you’re in illusion, yes, then the punishments and that that come with illusion apply, but if you’re not in illusion, they don’t apply anymore.

You know what I’m saying? It’s just like saying, you know, in your dream, you know, you went and did something wrong, you know, and now, you know, waking up, no, you have to go back to sleep and, you know, get the punishment for what you did wrong. Then only you can wake up. It’s like, you understand?

It’s that stupid, but that’s what people will be saying nowadays.

But the point is, is that you have to create an environment in which they’re freed from illusion because the point is, is why does one get distracted by material energy? Great Krishna consciousness. No. Because of illusion. So you have to put someone in an environment that that illusion will not be there. But having been freed from that illusion, what is the natural position for someone to work in?

Yes, according to his nature because Krishna always taught to engage your nature. Better do your service than someone else’s. So someone is a manager, for him not to do management because he did something wrong in that. If he’s in illusion, yes, you may need to adjust him. You either adjust the management or adjust the situation until one can be freed from that illusion. Once one’s freed, one’s conditioned nature is that of a manager. So one engages one’s manager’s ability in Krishna’s service. So if one can’t see like this, one is in illusion.

Does that make sense? So that’s why you can’t take how you say, modern platitudes as a decision making. These are ordinary dealings. Ordinary dealings are considered, but they’re considered in connection with Krishna consciousness. You’re paying your bills, that’s ordinary dealings. But we’re doing it because, not because paying your bills is a good thing and all that. You’re paying your bills because you need to use the facility. You don’t pay the bills, you don’t have the facility, right? It’s business for them. You pay the bill, you can stay in the house. You don’t pay the bill, they throw you out. You need to stay there, so then you pay the bills.

Why? Why do you want to stay? Because you’re serving Krishna.

You understand? It doesn’t stand to be, oh no, but you have to be a good man, you have to pay your bills. No, no. That’s for people who are criminal minded, don’t want to pay their bills, so you’re trying to inspire a little bit of cooperation.

Right? So for the gross materialist, that sounds very spiritual. But for the actual, properly situated spiritualist, that’s pretty mundane. Better mundane than still mundane. You understand? Right? So what we’re moving around here is that this element of that, having that proper knowledge about the situation and that illusion is not seeing a connection to Krishna. Right? That’s what we’re trying to deal with. So in other words, you’re talking to someone, you know, is that, you know, you’re talking to someone so, you know, which can be yourself also. Look in the mirror and talk to him.

So, talking to someone, they’re going to have a conditioned nature. Right? Now, the conditioned nature is not going to change. You can purify it, but it’s not going to change. Right? That they’re the spirit soul, that’s not going to change. Krishna’s God, that’s not going to change. But now, their view of this may be wrong. Right? That they want to do their work, get their results, this and that, that’s not the problem. The problem is that they don’t see themselves and their work in connection to Krishna. So that’s where the problem is. Right? So then you’re trying to show how to broaden their understanding so that you remove illusion and establish, you know, the relationship with Krishna.

Right? Does that make sense? So, that’s what you’re trying to do. So, you want to see what is the fundamental that makes their work? What’s their nature? You know, why are they doing something? So we can see here is that understanding of how Varnasrama works and that is very essential to preach, to manage, to organize. You know, we’ll say, oh, but in Kali Yuga it doesn’t apply. But at the same time, the same devotees might have some faith in psychology.

You know, if they don’t, in other words, all these things that we’re saying about someone appreciating or not appreciating the Vedic literatures, then our Vedic culture, know this, that we’re defining this, meaning someone doesn’t have faith in the Vedic, but has faith in modern. Does that make sense? So, this is very different from someone who doesn’t have necessarily faith in the Vedic culture, but has full faith in Prabhupada. And just whatever they did when Prabhupada was here, that’s good enough. But that’s all the more that they do anyway. You have to make that distinction because it’s connected to Krishna. They don’t get into the fine details. Fine, it doesn’t matter because they’re God conscious. So, we’re not talking that. And then they’re practical and just do something within the modern sphere.

But they’re thinking of what Prabhupada’s given and just doing that. So, that’s different. Its basis is very solid. It means they could improve that by introducing these things that Prabhupada is saying, but they’re unable to see them or appreciate it. But what they do appreciate in Prabhupada, that’s what they’re functioning on.

Generally, always when we say about these things of the non-Vedic, we mean who don’t have faith in the Vedic, but do have very much faith in the modern. That’s their inspiration. Then that they try to connect to Krishna. What we’re talking about, they just have faith in Prabhupada and so they’re going to do everything for Prabhupada. Now, they may not be so developed in all these things, but that doesn’t matter because they’re very developed in that faith.

So, that means you’re going to go back to Godhead because of faith, not by one’s expert knowledge of the Vedic culture.

Does this make sense? So, the culture itself is just a medium or a tool to use. So, if they use other tools and get the work done, okay, great. Of course, there’ll be some disturbances and this and that, but it’s secondary compared to the actual direct benefit that’s there. Does that make sense?

Well, it’s not so much a lack of faith, they don’t see the need. It’s just a matter of, Prabhupada said this, we do this. We don’t care for all this Vedic, this, that. But the only reason we know about Vedic is Prabhupada talks about it. But, in other words, Prabhupada is also talking about the Vedic, where like the smartest, they get absorbed and they think that’s all in all. So, their not worrying about it is based on those who get overly absorbed in the Vedic and then miss the point and something they could do nice for, you know, Krishna and Prabhupada, then they’re distracted by something else. And so, they complicate things. So, they’re specifically focused on that kind of person, but at the same time, everything gets lumped in. You know, it’s a bit simplistic.

Yes, that’s the…

It does, but at the same time, it’s the mystique of it that’s important to them. So, what I’m saying is you start there. But my point is, it can’t be that that’s the prominent element. It can’t remain.

Because Krishna already includes all that. But if that still is the prominent… In other words, let’s say they like astrology. Astrology can be the basis of discussion and interaction and all their thoughts. But they have to understand the context of astrology with Krishna. You know, how it’s His creation. He’s controlling the planets and all that. So, these planets have influence on your life. That’s just His arrangement. You know, it’s just like you have this big car and everything like that. Air goes into the motor, so it runs through the carburetor. But is the carburetor the big thing? That’s all we talk about is the carburetor. So, that’s the problem. They only sit around talking about carburetors. But they have to see the carburetor in the context of the whole car. And if they do that, it includes the carburetor. But instead of talking 24-7 about astrology, they would, you know, talk about it in areas where it’s worth talking about. And the rest of the time, they could be talking about something else. Does that make sense? So, that’s what we’re talking about is they overdo that. So, but you start there.

There’s not a problem starting there because where is all that? It’s all going to go back. If it’s popular, there has to be a supreme. That’s just the definition. Bhaktivinoda Thakura establishes that. You can’t have a religion or a philosophy that will be popular if there’s not a supreme.

Right? So, that’s why if you say in the new age, you can say the supreme and every last one of them will be comfortable with it.

You know? Like that. Not a problem. Because we have to remember where did these mentalities come from? Krishna. So, Krishna knows them. So, by using this language, it’s fine. Because He is the supreme. But that’s not our goal is just the supreme. It’s to serve that supreme in loving devotion. So, it takes on that personal element.

Yes. I want to summarize my understanding. This chapter which you have been going through is encouraging us to change the view from I am the enjoyer to I am the servant. Yes. Yes. If you change that identity, because you can’t act. You can’t actually become inspired, have a goal or act without an identity.

So, that’s why we see so many self -improvement elements are dealing with your identity. So, if you are comfortable with I am servant of Krishna. Right? Because knowing it, that’s Shravanadasa. But being comfortable with it, that’s Varanadasa. You are comfortable with I am servant of Krishna. So, you can function within that category.

So, if that’s there, then one will be able to absorb oneself in thinking of Krishna. That’s Shravanadasa. Right? That means… Have you come to that yet? In Upadesa Mita? Yeah. I always thought it was in the introduction. You know, then we found out I think it’s in verse 8. Like that. So, you’ll come up with it.

Is that okay? Yeah. So, in other words, we’re trying to catch this element of the discriminating matter from illusion.

Right? Because that’s what Bhagavatam says. That this literature then will be able to make it so someone can discern spirit from illusion.

That’s the whole… Because if you can do that, then after that, it’s just a matter of becoming… You know, knowledge, becoming inspired, making the endeavor, you know, working with that nice karma. Because if there’s no illusion, then it’s easy to work. We see the four Kumaras like that. Sukadeva very quickly, once they accept the process, it moves forward very fast. Right? So, we see the four Kumaras go from being Brahmavadis to being, you know, pure devotees. You know, it’s just a matter of moments. Right? So, they’re there, they’re Brahmavadis. Right? Then the Lord comes and they offer their obeisances. Right? Just because that’s what you’re supposed to do. You know? You know, in other words, here’s more Supreme Brahman than there are Brahmans. So, therefore, you offer respect. But in offering obeisances, then they see that there’s some attraction to the scent of the tulsi on the Lord’s feet. And then they’re analyzing, but we’re on the Brahman platform, so there is no material attraction. So, this engagement with the senses, this attractiveness, must be transcendental. So, there must be transcendental, you know, interaction and relationships. So, this is all happening on their platform of Brahman understanding. Having accepted that, then they surrender to the Lord in that next moment, and then they’re pure devotees. So, we can see a very efficient process like that. You know, it took a few moments, you know, so all this may have happened within a second or, you know, two. Not bad, right? So, so, that’s the point is that if that doesn’t happen naturally, you just see Krishna and you fall in love with Him, then you practice, you know, these, the rules of pancharatras, study the philosophy, you know, practice the devotional service, you know. That way, then, you’re engaging yourself in these things, and then, so, you’re trying to free yourself from illusion, because the illusion is it’s not connected to Krishna. So, when you can see everything connected to Krishna, then it works. You understand? So, so in here, now, Subhagyananda of course says there’s two things that make something popular, you know, as far as philosophy. One is there must be a Supreme, two, there must be selfless work.

Right? So, you see, any religion in the world that’s popular has these two elements. If it doesn’t have one of these elements, or neither, it’s not popular, right? It gets stuck on the sidewalk, you know, in the café with the French guys drinking their coffee. Right? Isn’t it? You know, and the two or three of them sit around and talk about it and this and that, and only they think it’s great, but it doesn’t go past them. You know? And some of them might have written a book or two, but it still doesn’t spread. You know? So in the university, they’ll sit around and discuss these, and you know, comparative religion or comparative philosophy, and they’ll discuss it, but it still will never get anywhere because it doesn’t have these two elements. But anything that has these two elements will be popular. You understand? So, if you take New Age, you know, you have the Supreme as what?

There’s a concept. What is that concept?

An energy, a force, a light, you know, anything like that. And then, someone who is properly situated in the New Age philosophy and lifestyle, what is their activities towards others?

They’re nice, yeah, trying to help, you know, do something. You know, if you had this very self -centered, very egoistic, you know, New Age guy, would anybody like him? No. And if you didn’t talk about the Supreme, you just talked about your astrology all day, would they be happy? No. You understand? So, that’s given by Krishna. These are laws of nature.

There’s a very funny example in Brazil 20 years ago. A guy invented a movement called the Blue Butterflies. And he announced that the world would end in so many days. And people believed him, and they started donating him, so there was no selfless activity. The world did not end. And there was a big chaos, and he was there, and he almost killed in the 80s, the Blue Butterflies. The Blue Butterflies, okay.

Yeah. So, was it, okay, was absence a central feature of the religion?

You know, how exciting. Hallucinatory stimulant would have helped with that.

So, does this make sense? Yeah. So, you have to have these elements. So, that’s the common point. There’s a supreme. Everybody can, and there’s selfless work, Naishkarmya.

So, do we have a concept of the supreme?

You know, what do you think of our concept compared to others? Is it developed? Is it sophisticated enough to be applied to anyone and everyone? Yes, okay. There’s the principle of Naishkarmya. Well, is that something that everybody can get involved in? You know, in doing good for others, you know, does it have a superior element of doing good compared to other processes of doing good? Right? You understand? Because it is to the supreme. Right? So, like that. But, and then you can go beyond this to the realm of devotion.

Right? So, they’re doing all these things in the supreme and nice things, experience feelings on this platform, the material platform. But here you can experience that personal interaction and that thing on the transcendental platform.

You know, because God’s a person, we’re persons, and all the devotees are persons. You understand? So, there’s no one that we can’t talk to or have something there.

Why wouldn’t we be the most popular religion? Because we don’t think we can be.

That’s the only thing stopping. Before, devotees thought we were and everybody knew us.

And now we’re worried, oh no, but what will people think, this and that. So, they have doubts and misgivings. So, who wants to get involved with a bunch of guys that aren’t confident? You know what I’m saying?

Like that. Yes?

Yes.

Yeah, in other words, yeah. You understand the point? So, in other words, they accept in philosophy that that is there, but they won’t apply it into their day-to-day life because they think the day-to-day life actually has some substance and controlled by, you know, forces that aren’t connected to Krishna. So, we have deism there, we have, you know, all these dualistic philosophies, all these different contaminations that are there. Does that make sense? So, we’ll get into, you know, fine discrimination of that in the third years.

Gas shortage.

Which gas? Cooking gas. Okay. Not blogging gas. That’s sufficient of that.

Okay.

The whole… it’s not ready… there is not ready for anything. But we have such a large experience in the Vedic system of using so other… of the fuels and you are so self -sufficient. And so, someone will come and see our philosophy, but see, if simply gas stops, the whole breathing has to be stopped, or most of it. And if one or two uses alcohol, or… That’s… Doubt it. See, the thing is, who’s going to come here, see that they’re all using gas stoves, and complain?

You know what I’m saying? Who would complain?

Yes. But, now, if they are not doing themselves and they’re complaining, it has some valid element. Yes, it’s not ideal, but you’re not changing yourself, so why would you be making a comment? So, like that. Now, if the person who’s coming here, you know, lives out in the Amazon and all that, and does everything out there, then they can come and complain.

But, if they’re not, there can’t be any complaint. Then it’s a matter of, no, it’s a matter of engaging whatever situation you’re in, in Krishna’s service. So, the lifestyle and that that they’re comfortable with, then the grhastas are engaging that in Krishna’s service. Because the important point is that they’re cooking for Krishna. It’s a secondary element, whether, you know, you use gas or this or that. You know what I’m saying? The cow dung, why would there be a consideration of, why would somebody use gas or not? What’s the point?

Okay, more practical.

The cow dung, okay, well that’s there, it means they’re using gas because it’s practical. Right? It’s easily available. And so, it’s practical in that they can cook for Krishna.

Something else, then it may not work. Right? It means the electricity may not be so practical because it’s not always there. You know? Yeah, it’ll be very expensive. You know, so, practically that you can cook for Krishna. At the same time, if you’re looking at it, okay, you’re cooking for Krishna, then what would be the best medium to cook for Krishna with? Then you look at, okay, cow dung.

You know what I’m saying? But that’s not the consideration here. Now it’s just a matter of cooking for Krishna. Because then, along with that also, okay, what are you cooking for Krishna? What’s the standard of the cooking for Krishna? You know, what’s the standard of cleanliness? So all these things can be added, but the core point is you’re cooking for Krishna. And then, so if that’s there, then that’s the common element. So that’s where we are consistent, you know, with our philosophy.

Right? So there’s no problem in that because, you know, most people are going to do that anyway. Because the opportunity to live on a farm and cook with cow dung has been there since, you know, how you say, New Vrindavan was established because that’s what they were doing and probably stayed there for weeks and was very comfortable and happy. So then after that, it spread like wildfire. Now, since then, everybody’s been cooking on cow dung. Right?

No. Not exactly. Okay. Close, but not quite there.

People talk about it, so we’re getting there, you know. So, this is the difficulty is that the lifestyle itself doesn’t stand on its own. There’s villages where they cook with cow dung and it’s simple and on the land. So it’s a more pious lifestyle. But, if they’re not God-conscious, it’s still a waste.

Right? So, the most important thing is to be God-conscious.

Right? And engage one’s nature in Krishna’s service. Now, if one can do that in this simple way, that would be nice. That would be, you know, a superior situation.

But, to get that without being God-conscious.

Because now, what is the difficulty that you see in many farms? They try these things and a few people can do it and they’re very, very happy. Right? Because they’re able to appreciate that actual simplicity and the advantages. But others can’t, so they’ll serve some time and then go away. Right? So, but the point is, is when they go away, do they continue to do whatever they’re doing for Krishna?

Yeah, so I’m saying if they do, then that’s okay. But if they don’t, then, then what they do is identify Krishna-consciousness means you have to live this particular austere lifestyle. So, therefore, I can’t live that austere lifestyle, therefore, I can’t be Krishna-conscious. Now, Krishna-consciousness is the essential point. And then, these are details that may be more favorable or less depending on the situation.

With your experience, do you believe that apart from this very strong argument that the media, the common point is that both are good institutions. Yes. If we, as an institution, started working on alternatives, so if there are crises, we have alternatives to present. Yes, we have alternatives to present, but what can we present? In other words, what can you preach?

You can preach that with less individuals. No, no, no, not that. You, as an individual, what are you, as an individual, able to preach? What you live. What you live. So the point is, unless you adjust to how you live, how will we adjust how we present?

That’s the whole, does that make sense? So, in other words, we have to create an environment that people can see, and then from there they can appreciate.

But if they can’t see it working, you know, so there has to be an example, but then that example should be supported. So if you can’t do it yourself, it’s just like this, the devotee is living in the temple full time, preaching, worshipping the deity, but you can’t do that. You know, you can only go a little bit to the temple, so what can you do to support that quality of preaching and deity worship? Donate. Donate money so that they can do it. In other words, so even if you can’t do it, you can be supportive by supporting projects where people are doing it. You know. Does that make sense? And then once it’s established and people can see it’s working, but the point is, where is it working?

You know what I’m saying? The concept is good and you take the different elements and they make them work. They go out, plow the fields, that works, or they cook on cow dung, that works, or they do this, you know, build their house out of local materials, that works, but they’re not able to hold it all together because the only thing that actually holds it together is the natural, is the Vedic culture.

Right? Because otherwise, then these people on the farm, what is their lifestyle? What is the lifestyle of the living there? What is their conversation about? New acquisition, something to go up the harbors? Yeah, that’s all. It means, in other words, they can only discuss about those few points that they’re focusing on. But that itself is not enough for someone who is coming from another environment. So what’s missing is that natural culture. Because the point is, let’s say you go to a man’s house in the village and you go to a man’s house in the city. Like that. The culture that will be there of interaction and relationship will be exactly the same. The detail will be different in what they have to offer. But there’s a common culture.

But for devotees, you have your city culture and you have your rural culture. They’re two different cultures.

You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? You know, it’s like, let’s say you went to this farmer’s house. Right? And he’s there and he’s taking care and then something comes up with the cow or something. So he says, you know, excuse me for a moment and goes out and takes care and comes back. Right? Because you’re the guest so he’s taking care. But now let’s say that we were in a you know, a western environment where they’re like this. You know, the devotees are like this. Something’s happened to the cow. They might ask you to come out and help them. You know, stop being all this just city slicker stuff. You know, let’s do something practical. So you’re not a guest anymore. You know, you’re the guy who doesn’t live the lifestyle they live and you’re the, you know, you’re the idiot for living this city lifestyle. You’re not the guest. You understand? So how will they be inspired and attracted that, okay, if I like this and then, yeah, okay. So now, do I want to be, you know, wear funky clothes all the time? Do I want to be covered from head to foot with cow dung all the time? Do I want to be rough and ready and not necessarily, you know, nice to others and, you know, okay, I’m practical down north. That’s a good point. But at the same time as, you know, very hard to relate to. So is that what I want to be? Yeah, in that way. Yeah, so how many people want to be like that?

That’s the difficulty. So, in other words, when the culture is involved with that, then it becomes an attractive environment. Then you see that this is, you know, a culture. These are gentlemen. They live simply, but they’re gentlemen. You know, the person’s in this city. He lives in a sophisticated way, but he’s a gentleman. So the common element is the culture. And mostly the people who have done these projects, they have replaced the consciousness of God for the consciousness of this. Yes, the International Society for Cow Consciousness. You know, we want to make all kinds of cows. No. You know, the point is that cows are engaged in Krishna’s service. So why would you, what does that mean?

You know, so everything’s just cow, cow, cow, cow. You’re doing anything. Oh, yeah, but you’re not, what about the cows? You know, it’s just like someone about Gurukul, you know, doing this and these classes and that, and what’s going on, and like that. No, but where are the cows? You know, now we have cows, but before we didn’t. You know, okay, that’s nice, but that’s one aspect of the essential point of it. A student is, you know, a teacher’s student studying material. No, but what about the, you know, oh, you know, you don’t farm, you know. So there’s always something, but it has to be seen in this bigger picture.

Does that make sense? Then it has a balance.

So the challenge is already, because you need to have a complete picture. You have to have a complete picture. So that’s why you create Brahmins, Brahmins will create the rest. You can’t create a culture by starting with Vaishyas. No. Because Vaishyas, why would Vaishyas be of a higher quality?

What’s inspired them? Because their point is profit. Yeah, but what will inspire them to go about the methods of gaining their profit from a higher level than a lower level?

If this higher method inspires them to profit even more. Yes, okay. So then, then that’s just purely profit. So, but where, and what will keep them from using lower qualities in the social context? Ethics. Ethics. Who will see that ethics are going on? Who will make sure if the Vaishya does something wrong that he won’t do it wrong? The Kshatriyas. The Kshatriyas. And who’s going to inspire that there’s something beyond just administration? So unless you establish Brahmins, you won’t have Kshatriyas. Unless you don’t have Kshatriyas, you won’t have the environment that the Vaishyas will function in a way that’s useful.

You know what I’m saying? Any devotee who’s a Vaishya by nature is making money. But now it’s just a matter of how they’re making money. Do they use the money for Krishna? Are they doing something? Do they have some project? You know, like this. Vaishyas will always make money. You understand? Brahmins and Kshatriyas, unless you create that environment, then they won’t be functioning. It means you’re going to have your managers, administrators, your intellectuals, but they won’t be able to pull together the society. But if you create Brahmins, then you can get Kshatriyas. And Kshatriyas know how to create the environment of safety. Then the Vaishyas and Shudras can function.

So therefore, if focus is on that. So Prabhupada said, the purpose of the movement is to create a class of Brahmins. Did he ever say a class of Vaishyas? No, but we’re talking about farm communities, cow protection, farming is a very important element. So if you make it to focus on that, that’s a problem. But Vaishyas are going to focus on that, so if they focus on it and do that, that’s nice. So that they have, let’s say, a farm project, and what’s missing is the element of the Brahminical influence, so that they understand how to put it into perspective and into balance.

Then you’re able to make it more universal and more attractive. Because Nanda Baba lived out, basically, in a rural environment.

But he’s not covered from head to foot in cow dung.

Of course, he was a king, so I guess that was the discriminating factor. Who was covered by cow dung and who wasn’t? So who wasn’t must have been the king.

No? Yeah.

You understand the context? Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Because otherwise, the general English population had trouble telling the difference like that. But some smart person pointed it out that he doesn’t have any cow dung all over him, so he must be the king.

OK.

Devotees meditate on the Lord. Is there something more or not? And the Lord reciprocates by meditating on his devotees. The Lord preserves what they have and carry whatever they lack. By his mercy, the devotees gradually mature, achieve perfection, and go back to Godhead. So he carries… So one is meditating on Krishna, Krishna meditates on us. So this whole process of the fish brings us up, just by looking at them, or the turtle, by meditation. So this process, they’re very powerful. They have effect. Like that. And then Krishna preserves what they have, carries what they lack. In other words, what’s the gap? Then Krishna makes up for it. And then slowly, slowly, the devotee themselves will be able to do all those activities. And whatever one has, that remains. But what you have to be able to distinguish between is what’s the spiritual and what’s the material. Like you’ll see, a devotee has something that’s on the spiritual platform. Even if they’re not practicing for many years, when they come back, that platform is still able to function.

But what they had materially goes away. But they think, because I’ve attained this particular level of material sophistication, if they leave, I’ll continue like that. No, they go back to whatever they were. But that spiritual quality that they developed, that doesn’t go away.

Verses 27 to 28. Krishna explains how one can come to the position of liberation in the Supreme by the practice of mystic yoga known as Ashtanga Yoga. This section is introduction to the next chapter. Verse 29. Real peace is possible only on the platform of liberation.

Okay. Yeah, because if you’re not liberated, you’re involved in the material energy. Material energy means problem. It’s just the way it is. It’s not a way of, oh, well, we can adjust it, you know, adjust it to make it nice. There’s no material energy is like that. It’s just the way it is. Like water is wet, you know, so it’s not going to change. Person who is fully conscious of Krishna as the supreme enjoyer of all sacrifices and penances, supreme controller of all the worlds and ultimate friend of all living beings, attains real peace and is free from all miseries.

Okay. Krishna is Bhoktaram. Okay. So, why is the enjoyer of all sacrifices, penances and the supreme control? Okay.

Means, sacrifice means what are you doing?

Yes. So, you’re giving up something for someone else’s benefit, attaining a higher purpose, like that. So, if it’s connected to Krishna, right, then that’ll be the supreme sacrifice. All right. Control of all the worlds. We’re controlling a small portion of the world. But the problem is we can’t control the whole thing. We may try, but somehow or another… Historically, we’ve never seen it work out so good. You know, like that. So, if we understand Krishna is a controller, then we don’t have a problem with others. Right? What’s a big problem between, you know, a controller of the world?

Yeah. And who are these enemies? Yeah, other controllers of the world. Right? And so, therefore, it’s going to be a problem. But if you don’t see yourself as a controller, then you have a problem. No. Right? And then ultimate friend of all living beings. Well, Krishna is the ultimate friend. Why not us?

We’re limited. Yeah. So, he can only be so friendly all the time. Otherwise, it’s like, yeah, OK, go home. Go home.

You know, so, you can only feed so many people or be so nice all the time or things like that. So, Krishna is the ultimate friend. Right? Because that friendship results in an eternal relationship.

Right? So, the sacrifice results in the eternal position. The understanding of our position establishes on the eternal platform. And Krishna is the friend. He can actually have relationships that are eternal.

Right? Does this make sense?

Krishna’s bhoktaram yajna and sarva-loka-mahesvaram is the enjoyer of the sacrifices performed by the karmakandis and the karma-yogis. He is the goal of the jnanis’ austerities, tapasam. And he is the object of meditation for the mystic yogis, suridam sarva-bhutanam.

Right? So, the goal of whatever anybody’s trying to gain, it’s Krishna. Right? Because results are coming from aniruddhas. So, that’s your karma. You know, your jnan being that situation of being free from material… That’s Krishna. Right? He is liberation. He is… So, that situation of sattva, of eternality, that is his. And the yogis, then, that meditation upon the Lord. So, then, he has a…

You know, he’s the point that everybody actually meditates on. Right? You’re inspired by something because you’re meditating on a specific point. That point, that’s Krishna. Like that. So, Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakur comments, Krishna says, I am the guardian, bhakta-rama, of the yajna, of the karmakandis, and the guardian of the austerities, tapasam, of the jnanis. That means I am the object of worship of the karma yogis and jnanis. I am the great controller of all people, sarva-loka-mahesvaram, the paramatma, the object of worship of the astanga yogis.

So, in other words, means the people, the Lords in the heart, so the Lord in the heart controls the living entities and how everything works. He’s the goal and the yogis are meditating upon the Supersoul. So this way, He becomes the object of everyone’s worship. I am the friend of all entities who gives benefit to all living entities by instruction about bhakti through the medium of my devotees. Out of my mercy, okay. I am the friend of all living entities who gives benefit to all living entities by instruction about bhakti through the medium of my devotees. Out of my mercy. So notice, through the Lord’s mercy, He benefits all living beings by the instructions about devotional service coming from the devotees, the preachers.

I am the object of worship for the devotees.

Okay, so all living entities are benefited by the devotees’ preaching, but all those devotees who are preaching, their goal or object of worship is Krishna. So that makes them the supreme object, right. So the karmas and jnanis, they have their particular thing of the fruits of their labor or their austerities, but they’re two groups. But Paramatma controls them all, so that makes the yogi in a better position, because then he’s dealing with the control of all living entities. But the real benefit to all living entities is come by devotional instruction. And those who are giving that devotional instruction, their goal is Krishna. So that puts them at the top of everything. So by being the Lord of the devotees, it automatically makes them the Lord of the karmas, jnanis and yogis. These are on the lower platform.

With this verse, Krishna claims the different positions the conditioned souls strive for. He is the enjoyer, the master and the best friend. So in other words, that’s where Krishna’s talking in the second canto about, that whatever is of value, that’s him.

So that’s the position. He’s of value. So whatever’s in inspiration. Because looking at the field, that’s one thing. But being inspired, right? Does that make sense? You go into the kitchen, you know, you go in, everything’s there, but you just kind of sit there. Because you don’t know what to do. You’re not inspired. So you sit there for long enough and either you get hungry and so therefore you get inspired or some other thought comes up or this or that, some new recipe, then you’ll start cooking. Right? You understand? So without the inspiration, nothing happens.

Right? So that’s, the point is this. Krishna is that inspiration.

I just want to point out, in verse 27, 28, he introduces, is that the sangati? The? The verses 27, 28, Krishna explains. Yes, this would be the sangati there. That would be that. There’s always going to be sangati. Like you see before, he’s always talking about karma brings it back to the third chapter and the yantra is back to the fourth chapter. At the same time, it’s in now, this will bring it to that. Yeah. So there’s always, there’ll always be a sandhi between them. I think in, in, in Vishwanath’s commentary, Baladeva, I think it, between each verse, he tells what’s the next verse. He does that or is that Ramanuja?

Between the sections. So the, I think even Ramanuja between verses. He says, you know, this and this and this. Therefore, because you’ll need this, then the Lord says and then it’s the next verse.

Some, some kind of, they have some, so that they bring out that.

With no place left for their false pretenses, the jivas are invited to cooperate with the Lord and attain peace or to be eternally frustrated in their hopeless struggle, struggle for independent enjoyment. So now, everybody has a goal because that’s the whole point. Everything else, their identity, everything is all in relationship with their goal. So now, Krishna’s already claimed the goal of everybody. Right? And to be the one who makes all of that work. So now, one can either cooperate with the Lord or go on being frustrated because it’s him anyway. So, in that illusion, there will be frustration. And frustration gives rise to anger.

Right? And then, that gives rise to a whole new industry of commerce. Anger management industry. What if, in a way, this is like a drive for going down? I get angry and I do some bad things. Yeah. And so, because you’ve done the bad, therefore you get worse results, so your situations degrade.

And then, you know, then the situations be ones in which anger can come up more, so then it cultivates the anger.

And then, you know, one has to then stop cultivating and then one slowly comes up. The point is, even one improves that unless it’s connected to Krishna, it’s not that worthwhile. Because there will be so much hard work. That’s why it says, śrama eva yukhevalam. It’s just a waste of, you know, hard labor. Because you’re doing that hard labor and you could have gotten so much but you get so little. Right? The guy goes out and works all day and he gets ten rupees, but he could have the same exact work by changing the consciousness gotten unlimited funds.

You would say he’s an idiot. So that’s the point, is the karma, the jnani, the yogi, they’re working so hard but those same methods that they use to elevate themselves to that position of their goal, then could have elevated them to the position of Krishna consciousness. So it’s a waste. So the Gita is showing them how they can connect. That would also be a nice way to point why these three, why these chapters.

Because then they’re all the mentalities. Right? So then your karma is your jnanis and your yogis, so therefore these chapters, dhyana karma yoga, jnana yoga, and dhyana yoga. Because now you’ve covered every kind of basic consciousness that there is.

Srila Prabhupada writes in Renunciation Through Wisdom.

I guess maybe we won’t read that. Oh well. It was a good idea to finish today but we’re close.

But do we, not yet. What one can see is that there’s more of an understanding. We discussed these and it’s not, even just a few weeks ago, there was more of a bewildered look when we would ask these questions. You know, starting to go. Because Krishna just again and again and again makes these points. He’s a good teacher. The acaryas, they’re also not bad. They bring up these points again and again. And so from that repetition, by going through this, by the time we finish the sixth chapter, this kind of, the mechanic should be quite clear. Then we’ll get into Krishna’s position.

Thank you.

Lecture Notes

A brief summary of the lecture contents, based on the notes of Śāstra-cakṣus students

  • One is able to control senses by using intelligence, and that is coming from consciousness. The nature of jīva is the choice to properly apply consciousness. We are in a certain situation due to our previous choices. By using intelligence, one makes better choices.
  • 5:00 Duality is there, because we see complete difference between things. There IS difference, but not duality. Like heat and cold are aspects of the same thing, temperature
  • Kṛṣṇa conscious person is free from anger, because by seeing something as ours we work within duality, and therefore there is nice and not nice. But if it’s all connected to Kṛṣṇa, no material desires, there will also be no anger from frustration.
  • The Brahman platform is only the happiness of removal of all pain, but there is no positive happiness. But the soul always wants to function in a position of variety, but that variety is for the pleasure of the Lord, not for the jīva.
  • Impersonalists endeavor to achieve Brahmānanda, but afterwards stop endeavoring, therefore ānanda stops. Only devotees have the concept of activities on the liberated platform in the service of the Lord, therefore their happiness is eternal.
  • 24:30 Keys to soft preaching – Prabhupāda uses terms like “liberation in the Supreme”, but he preaches direct Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy, by re-defining and refining those terms. Bhaktiviṇoda Ṭhākura mentions how any small thing that has some value fits into a bigger picture. From that point, we can start preaching to a person.
  • Impersonalists’ and Buddhists’ concept of nirvāṇa is that material energy does not exist, and liberation is a state of having no conception of material energy. But devotees understand that material energy exists, so even in the liberated state, freed from illusion, they can still act within the material energy for the pleasure of the Lord.
  • 34:00 In preaching, we should not completely deny the wrong conception of the other person, but rather see where they have a correct, but incomplete understanding.
  • The subtle body is mainly the mind, it just has the subdivisions of mind, intelligence and false ego.
  • 40:00 Mother Yaśodā is using intelligence in her activities to please Kṛṣṇa, but her affection to Kṛṣṇa needs no intellectual explanation.
  • Process of attachment to material and spiritual is the same – by associating with devotees we develop attachment to Kṛṣṇa.
  • Matter is just an inferior spiritual, but in the beginning when our spiritual intelligence has not yet developed, we make strong discrimination between material and spiritual. But with time we see how all things, even seemingly material can be connected to Kṛṣṇa.
  • Devotees may get distracted by karma and jñāna and make mistakes, but the solution is not to not do service, it is to engage in more direct activities for some time, then return to their service with renewed spiritual consciousness.
  • Some devotees don’t pay much attention to the Vedic culture, but at the same time they have complete faith in Prabhupāda and mainly engage in direct activities, so that’s okay. But if one neglects the Vedic culture, but at the same time has great faith in the sophisticated modern, that will create problems.
  • 66:30 Any philosophy or religion to become popular, it has to have a Supreme and it has to entail selfless work.
  • 71:00 Why wouldn’t we be the most popular religion?
  • 73:00 – 89 approx. Using gas vs cow-dung for cooking – simple lifestyle does not stand on its own
  • People are inspired because they meditate on a certain point, that point is Kṛṣṇa.
  • Kṛṣṇa’s quality as friend to all living entities manifests through preachers
  • 96:30 Without inspiration, nothing happens, and Kṛṣṇa is that inspiration
  • Karmī, jñānī, yogī are working so hard, but their work could have elevated them to devotional service, otherwise it’s a waste of time. Therefore BG introductory chapters are dealing with the mentalities of karma, jñāna and yoga, so it can be connected to devotional service.

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