Verses 37 to 43 of Arjuna’s, what do you call it? His reasons for not fighting.
Destruction of family tradition.
In verses 37 to 38, Arjuna blames the Kauravas of being greedy and fancies himself as a man of superior knowledge. In this way, Arjuna demonstrates another characteristic of the conditioned soul. Conditioned soul is expert fall finder. He is very quick to point out defects in others and is blind of his own discrepancies. Arjuna had enough intelligence to see the greediness of the Kauravas, but failed to recognize his own illusions. So, it’s not that someone sees something wrong in something else. It’s not necessarily that it’s not true. It may be true, but there is the question of what’s the reason that one is seeing that? Or how is it one’s ability to see that? Because from the point of view that one can see it, one can only see something that one has a quality in. It means you can see color because you have eyes. Does that make sense? You only see things that you yourself value, either in the positive or the negative.
So, something that you’re doing or something that you’re not doing, these are the things you’ll see in the conditioned state because you’re only conditioned to see what is according to your nature. So, you can only see within the realm of your nature. Does that make sense? So, if you see, oh yeah, this person is political, that person is political, that means you have to have a political quality within your nature. Otherwise, how will you see it? People who aren’t political don’t know it. They’re naive to put politics.
Does that make sense? You know, someone who appreciates beauty can go out and see beauty. Someone who doesn’t appreciate beauty, they never see it.
Does that make sense? So, they only see what’s important. Like a child, they like to play. So, any place they are, they see the opportunity to play. But they can’t see beyond that. For example, this is the living room where there’s guests or you’re in public or this situation is such that it’s not good to play and you may break something. They don’t see that. All they can see is, because they don’t care. Something breaks, people are there and see what do they care. As long as they’re playing, they’re happy. Does it make sense? So, here the point is, is being able to find fault. That means there is some intelligence and you’re connecting something. You’re able to discriminate. So, yes, there is some element there. But what’s not appreciated is, why is it you’re able to see? And then having seen it, what’s your conclusion? That’s where you actually tell if they’re intelligent or not. Because anybody who’s observant can see things.
That’s not, you know, anybody who’s a little practical can see something. So, that you see a weakness and then you consider because they have the weakness, you’re superior because you can see it. Then that’s not so important.
The point is, the weakness is there. That’s going to be a weakness in one’s devotional service. So then, seeing that, are you able to show them how to go beyond that?
How to develop it? How to improve it? That’s intelligent. But just to be able to see it, that you can train anybody, basically. So, that’s not what’s important. So, here he’s seeing the fault and he doesn’t have that fault. He’s not greedy. He’s trying to be compassionate. They’re greedy. But the point is, his compassion is for the point of wanting to enjoy with the family.
So, both of them are looking at the element of how to, how to fulfill your own personal desires through the family.
Dhritarashtra through them all getting killed so he’s the king. And for Arjuna by them being alive so they can enjoy and share their experiences. But in any case, they’re both wanting to enjoy the family. Just one is in a positive aspect, one’s in a negative, but it’s the same. That’s what we’re saying is how Arjuna is able to see it because he has that.
Otherwise, this wouldn’t be the point. The point is, it’s irreligious and this and that. But here the greed, the this, the that, and then somehow his compassion.
You understand? Otherwise it was being done from a dharmic point of view. It would be pointing out dharma against dharma. It would be in the field of dharma. But here it’s my material quality is better than your material quality.
Does that make sense?
And because of our attachment to piety, because good qualities get good results so that we’ll say that’s better. But if it doesn’t get Kṛṣṇa, then it’s still useless.
Does it make sense? So that’s the point we see here. Arjuna argues that the battle would destroy the family tradition. In this purport to verse 39, Prabhupāda explains, Śrīla Prabhupāda explains, In the system of the varṇāśrama institution, there are many principles of religious traditions to help members of the family grow properly and obtain spiritual values.
The elder members are responsible for such purifying processes in the family, beginning from birth to death. But on the death of the elderly members, such family traditions of purification may stop, and the remaining younger family members may develop irreligious habits and thereby lose their chance for spiritual salvation. Therefore, for no purpose should the elder members of the family be slain.
So elders is, they have… See, when one’s younger, one may know something. It’s not that the elders didn’t learn what they know when they were in Gurukula, right, as students. And it’s not that the present generations that are younger than them didn’t also learn the same thing. But what’s the difference?
The difference is, there may be the difference between understanding and realization.
Because you learn it in the school, if you realize it, great. But if you don’t, you have the understanding, then you practice it. But there’s always the thing of, you know, you may try this or that, or, you know, in this situation you could be lenient, or that one you wouldn’t, or trying to find the balance. So after, you know, time, you know, a lifetime of, how do you say, practice, then one becomes convinced that the Vedic rule actually is always important, always applicable, and how to make it always applicable. Does it make sense? So the elders have that realization. Now, of course, in the Vedic principle, elder means one who has that realization. So, you might have a person who’s younger, and for that reason, but they have realization, so they would be an elder. Right? So the elder is one who keeps the family together. Right? Who keeps the community together. So even if they’re young, it doesn’t matter, as long as that’s what they’re able to do. Does that make sense? So elder is in the social position of understanding, realization, sacrifice. Right? Does that make sense? That would be what’s important. Because those are the most, your devotion, of course, the highest, then knowledge, then sacrifice. Then after that, influence, wealth, family relationship, all these different things. So generally they all come together when one’s older, but it doesn’t mean that when one’s younger it wouldn’t be the same. That’s why the elders are always protected. They’re always taken care of, because they have something valuable to give you, in the way of understanding.
Right?
Lack of proper training will create havoc in the society. When the family leaders are dead, the family becomes involved in irreligion. Women lose their chastity. The result is unwanted progeny. Varnaśaṅkara. When Varnaśaṅkara floods the world, the performance of Vedic rituals stop. The forefathers are degraded, and all kinds of community projects and family welfare activities are devastated.
Varnaśaṅkara, mixed… So the point is, basically speaking, is according to the environment that you have, which will be established, and according to the training of the women, that’s going to determine your social quality.
Like that. Much of the time it’s just there’s training, there’s rules put in place. Let’s say this would be standard. You put rules in place, and people have managerial authority.
And then they figure that’s going to make community.
Right? You know, you set a bunch of rules, and there are people who are there to see that the rules are followed. Right? We have experience of this. Right? When there’s a community, and people get together, we have to make a community. What’s the first thing they do? Make the rules, and who’s in charge. Right? It’s always the way it is. And then, after that meeting, then supposedly now everything’s going to go fine. Does it? No. No, not necessarily. A couple of weeks this and that, and then after that it disappears. Why does it disappear?
Yeah, motivation’s not coming from inside. Like that. It’s not natural, it’s not spontaneous. In other words, those who are the authorities, it’s not their natural lifestyle. Because what is it? You have a meeting of a whole bunch of people. So for one person it’s this thing, and for another person it’s that thing.
So they’re authorities. But they only actually have some interest in one of the points. So the other nine points, they don’t have interest.
So the realization’s not there. They don’t know why those rules are important. They just know that there’s something connected with them. Maybe either just the piety that you do it as Vedic, and this and that, and if you do the ritual, everything’s perfect. Like Jai Muni says. Isn’t that what Jai Muni says? You do the ritual, you will get the result. That’s his philosophy. But we understand that the result’s still up to the independence of the Lord.
Because you do the activity, yes, you’ll get the result for that in the future, but you also have so many other things that you’ve done, so the Lord has to balance what you’ve done and what you do now and give you a result based on that, so it’s very complex. So Jai Muni isn’t exactly right.
Then the other aspect is that do people, because we see it’s by realization, now in the standard point, here’s family members, elder family members, what’s the relationship between the, okay, just in theory, maybe you could answer this. What’s the relationship between the elder members of the family and the junior members of the family in this context?
They protect them. So there’s a good relationship, right? Yeah, okay. So you talk as if there’s some understanding of this, but for many this may not be a reality. Anyone over 30, you don’t trust, right?
It’s like that. That was at least the saying we used to say. Anyone over 30, that was another couple of years, and they’ll be over 30, and working back on Wall Street, right?
Good. Yes.
I’m getting to that.
So what I’m pointing was, first we’re making the environment that the method the devotees use now isn’t complete enough. That was the point of establishing this. So now, the point is now the elders of the family, they have a good relationship. There’s protection, there’s affection, there’s all these different things. Therefore, you’re going to trust them on this. So it’s not by fear you create community, because community means like-minded persons. They have same values, right? So that means, because there’s like-minded, right? What’s one of the, like in the modern context, what’s one of the main things in a meeting that you want to avoid?
Right? Then according to this, opposite of this, right? You want to make sure that there aren’t many people in the meeting who have a similar kind of way of viewing things, right? Because if you have one idea, you don’t want anybody else with that. And if two people are friends, you’ll say, they’re biased. You’re a friend, you’re biased.
Bias. Bias means you have a pre-determined opinion about someone.
Like, let’s say, something, I have a good example, but I don’t know if it would be good being from Poland, right? Just like there, the idea was, if you go back a few years, all Jews and all gypsies are bad. Right? And you had nice little summer camps for them to stay in, right?
Yes? That’s bias. You don’t know the person, they’re automatically good or bad. You know what I’m saying?
Does that make sense? Like Poland, all Germans are a bit dry and formal like that. They’re not more relaxed and laid back.
But there’s differences. Do you understand? That’s bias. So the tendency is to think that if you’re friends with somebody, then you’re automatically supporting. So therefore, that’s bad in the meeting. So you want to have a meeting of all kinds of people who have nothing in common with each other. Maybe even better is they’re not even really supportive of each other. Then that will be a perfect meeting. And in that meeting, you’ll be able to establish community like that. It hasn’t worked for as long as I’ve seen them try to use it. I saw more community when everybody was friends. Because even friends have differences of opinion.
So, now we see that it’s because of that friendship and having the common value, common viewpoint, that you can create the community. OK? But now, going back to our first thing, the person has the authority, the rules are there, but why is it nobody follows up on it?
Practical reason.
They don’t feel sheltered. That would be good. That would be the persons who are under the rules and under that authority. They won’t feel sheltered. So they’re not going to feel much like being part of it. OK. So maybe we can bring that and the other. There’s something common between that and the persons who are in the position to get it done.
They’re not following it for Dharma? They’re not following it for Dharma. That might be there. But at the same time, they might be trying to practice the Dharma. There’s an essential point to this verse. They don’t feel any need to apply the rules to help anybody else. They don’t feel a need to apply the rules to help everyone else. OK. But at the same time, they were in the meeting and they were fired up and, yes, we got to establish these rules.
Yeah.
They don’t know. Well, that’s the whole point that they made the list because they started off with things that were external forms of a culture that’s not theirs but the elements of that culture that they find common in theirs, they’ll try to apply it according to their culture as opposed to the Vedic system. So you’re going to get that. So that’s also going to create confusion.
Yeah, they don’t feel responsibility. Yeah, lack of trust. But now, what do they feel responsible for? On a day-to-day basis, we’re talking community here.
No, but the individual. He’s not doing something for the community because he’s busy taking care of his own responsibilities. His own responsibilities are? Family. And what makes a family? A wife.
You understand? Arjuna could have said so many things. Did he mention kings? Did he mention Brahmins? In specific, right? Did he mention women? He could have said family members. The elders and the family members. But he specifically mentioned women. Why? Because if the women don’t like it, it doesn’t happen. Think about it. The guy is jumping up and down, but if his wife says, this is stupid, how much can he push? Because if he does, then he runs the risk of coming home and needing a block of ice.
And as we know, icebergs, one-tenth is above the surface. The nine-tenths is below the surface. And you don’t want to know about the nine-tenths. Right? Why is it in the community that the others then don’t feel safe? Because the women don’t feel safe. They have to be protected. So if the community, if the women are not satisfied, are their husbands going to be? No. So Arjuna is smart. He knows if the women aren’t protected and taken care of, then there is no community. There is no family. Because they have a bunch of men together, it’s not family.
Right?
Right, isn’t it? And generally, who do you see on these committees? Much of the time, men.
They have relationships with their family. That’s another thing. Sometimes it’s because they don’t have a relationship there, they want to establish it everywhere else. You know what I’m saying? So they’re all in there. Or a lot of times you have elder women who are not married.
It’s also very common. Like that. Rare. Now and again you have someone who he has a functional family. He’s actually able to do something.
So that means those things do apply in his life. And so therefore he can give it to others. But that means he is properly dealing with his family and his wife. So therefore he can do something. But these others like you had said, it doesn’t really mean much for them. There’s an issue behind it. They’re talking religion, but there’s a motive, like Arjuna.
Right? They want authority in the community, but they don’t actually have authority in their own house.
They don’t know how to behave. You understand? So he’s pointing out if the women aren’t protected, then nothing works right. Right now we’re working on affection.
Right? And the point is, if that affection is strong, then the women are focused. That affection is not strong, that protection is not there, they will look for protection. So then it may move around the community. Right?
It’s better than intellectual. So even though you know it may end up with bad children, it doesn’t matter because it’s interaction, there’s something there, it is some kind of children.
Does it make sense?
Right? So it’s a very great reality.
Does it make sense? So the actual, the community going right is dependent upon your women.
And going right with the women because the women will follow those who are protecting, taking care, dealing properly.
Right? So it’s not management, it’s not authority, it’s not rules.
It’s actually the realization of the elders and the nice relationship with the community that therefore generates everything properly. Does it make sense? Does this give a clue on why communities aren’t functioning? Because their approach is completely wrong. But that doesn’t mean now, oh see it’s the ladies, so put the ladies in charge. That doesn’t work either.
You know? Because ladies want to be in charge of the elderly, control like that, and then use the men to get all their stuff. That won’t work either.
It has to work in its proper balance. In other words, the women are very important so they have to be protected. Not the women are very important, they’re in charge. No, they’re in charge in their own house. They’re not in charge of the community.
Right? It’s not management. So you have to find that balance. That’s the thing. So he’s mentioned this. So now, if that protection is not there, then you’ll end up with Varnashankara. Right? Unwanted population.
Thank you. Can I say that in the United States we’re made like a bachelor’s economy. A bachelor’s economy. And now in the future a ten-year economy.
Meaning, you’re talking economically or you’re using the terminology? Can you explain to me which terminology you’re talking about as far as getting good for our students or anything like that? Yeah. You could say, but right now I would basically say there’s no economy. Because then who is generating the money? Because if you say it’s a grihastha or the grihastha’s actually generating the money.
You know what I’m saying? Who in the temple is going out and shaking the cans or going to the Hindus and getting donations? It’s still the brahmacharis and brahmacharinis. It’s just that before the individuals needed less money and so the maximum money would go into the preaching. And now it’s the individuals need lots of money so therefore there’s a shortage always because you can never satisfy that. And then, you know, so very little preaching projects go on. Individuals may do it but it’s not as a driving force.
You know what I’m saying? So economically it’s not the thing because economics is an artha. The problem is that the view is not from dharma. So he’s giving dharma but he’s using it as an excuse. But it’s not that these points aren’t correct because this will happen. All that he predicts will happen.
But the point is it’s kaliyuga. That’s just the way it is. You know, so the individual it’s not Arjuna’s business. His business is to kill all the demons. Now each individual’s business is to try to elevate themselves and understand what’s proper behavior and try to bring themselves up to the proper standard. You know, and as we discussed was it yesterday or day before is that if you do that then so many people do it then that generates a golden age. A golden age simply means people are god conscious. Right? In Treta Yuga then you had a golden age after Parasurama killed the kings. Because now there were no bad kings. You had the queens and then there are no kings. So you need kings. So because it’s in the Treta Yuga then they applied the rule of niyoga. So the queens went to the elevated brahmanas. You know, the sages in the forest because they were all hiding in the forest. And then from them generated progeny.
And so now you had kings, ksatriyas but they were from very, very good stock.
Right? So they were basically almost like brahmanas. So they ran their kingdoms in such a way that the whole world was like Satya Yuga even though it’s in Treta Yuga. So it’s the same in the Kali Yuga. If everyone takes up chanting then everything becomes a golden age. I would say one percent of the population.
Sixty million. That’s all. Right? Then everything will change.
Like that. So that’s the individual has to take it. Not that it’s an excuse. Right? So does that make sense? So the dharma aspect of what’s the nature that has to be seen. What’s the nature of an elder? What’s the nature of a community? What’s the nature of the rules? What’s the nature of a family? And what’s the nature of a husband and wife and children from parents and children? What is the nature of these? That’s not seen. It’s always looked at as economics. Right? Varnasra means how you make your money. But how you make their money is basically only half of the concept. And in reality if you look at it it’s less than half. Because the brahmins don’t make their money by a separate occupation other than performing the duties of asrama.
Right? So in other words the duties of asrama take five out of eight positions.
Does that make sense? So to then label varnasra as the economics is economics is one. You have dharma, artha, kama and moksha. Artha is based on dharma. No dharma, no artha. Right? We don’t preach where’s the money going to come. We’re not doing pious activities. Right? So it’s not going to come from that. And we don’t preach and do that where it’s going to come from. You know they have all these schemes that are used by I mean studied by losers.
The people who wrote the books they’re successful but from one of two points they’re successful in trying to help out the idiot in making a few more bucks on the side or that’s how they made their money. You know what I’m saying? He’s talking about the guy’s writing about successful people but he’s not technically doing it. He’s writing the book and becoming successful through that. So it is an application of what he’s doing. But it’s only in the brahminical fashion. But the people coming to him are businessmen.
Does this make sense? So devotees are trying to use the methods of losers and it’s not generating anything as long as I’ve known that they’ve been chasing after this since the mid 90’s. I haven’t seen any more money. So economically it’s not working because they’re trying to find economics separate from dharma. Because we’re devotees we don’t care for the rules. But it’s God’s creation. You gotta care about it. You understand? So the point is in here is we’ve satisfied all these religious elements in this first chapter. Because otherwise one may say one may think philosophy has nothing to do with religion. Or because you have avoided the religion then it’s not applicable. Like the Upanishads that’s very nice for the sages but we’re grhasthas so how does this apply in our life? So the Gita because it’s being written for grhasthas the Mahabharata is for grhasthas so therefore it is written that it takes care of that but it shows that there’s something beyond dharma.
The spiritual spiritual perspective.
Right? So when the political correct walas say perspective is everything yes spiritual perspective is everything and anything else is you know perspective fit for you know idiots.
So here we’ve gone through all the aspects how to properly deal how to you know the emotions the family situation everything that’s what someone would deal with. Then having dealt with that then in the second chapter then we transfer from that perspective of the mundane to the perspective of spiritual. But as we see in the conclusion he’s still a kshatriya he’s still a householder he’s still fighting. So nothing changed. What changed with his spiritual and material perspective.
Right? This is what Krishna is going to give. Very different from what we do. Spiritual nothing material. Material nothing spiritual. That’s karma and jnana. That’s been going on since time immemorial. Let’s have something different. Well no we’re different. Do something new. Yeah. Do devotional service. That’s different. Right?
Anything else everybody’s been doing it since time immemorial. Does that make sense? Right? So now what’s the problem with Varna Shankara? Varna Shankara mixed population is dangerous because it lacks material and spiritual identity. Society can be peaceful and prosperous only when its members are well acquainted with their duties. Persons who do not identify with particular Varna ashram do not follow any set of duty and are thus unpredictable in their behavior. The science of self-realization starts from resolving one’s material nature. Taking a clear stand in terms of Varna and ashram is conducive for spiritual advancement because how do you have a relationship with anyone? How do you perform an activity if you don’t know who you are? Right? We’ve already established that you can’t perform an activity unless you know who you are in relationship to that field. And the point is if you want to get around then ask everybody, who are they?
Now, on the point, are you spirit soul or are you the body? All devotees will say they’re spirit soul. So therefore they can chant their japa, go to the Mangala Arthika and everything like that. They’re successful in that way. Right? But if you say, okay, what’s your material condition nature? What is it? Then people are very confused.
Yes?
I’m still not sure about varna for women. Varna for women? Yeah, because you have mentioned that it’s not so important to women because it’s really about becoming a good examiner. That means how varna for women works. It’s also one of these subtle, very confusing elements. Because you have the element that according to, this will be according to you know, those who are, I’m saying, yeah, being from the probating, okay? Then they’ll say is that whoever the woman marries, that’s the varna she is. Like she marries a brahmana and she does brahminical duties. She is ksatriya, that, like this. So that’s true by the family. What are her duties as such? But the point is, is duties come from an inherent nature. Like a brahmana does brahmin duties because it’s his inherent nature. You know, it means conditionally. So the point is, and Manu is very strong on the point that one marries someone of equal nature, right? That means he has an inherent brahminical nature, the woman has an inherent brahminical nature, right? But occupation means what you do outside of ashram to support yourself, right? So, technically, the women function within ashram because you have your sadhana, you have your religious duties, you have your family duties. You don’t have as such, technically, an occupation. The occupation, like brahmins, their occupation is their sadhana, right? So women, their occupation is their sadhana and family life, but the supporting part of what the husband is doing. Does that make sense? So, technically, on one sense, you could say it’s more on a brahminical level. You know, it’s very simple in this and that. No matter what it is, it’s always based on religious values and that. Does that make sense? Well, others, then it’s religious values, but it may not, yeah.
You know what I’m saying? So, you’re going to have some subtleties here, very subtle. Now, but the point is, otherwise, why is there varna-sankara? I mean, other than it’s an illicit connection, then that’s obviously varna-sankara. Yeah, but you’re mixing varna, so it says if a ksatriya man, you know, has a child with a brahmin woman, you get a suta. So, if the woman didn’t have a nature, right, the brahmin woman has married the ksatriya man, so technically now she follows the ksatriya culture and he follows in the palace, but she’s still by nature a brahmin. So, their child will be a suta. Right? So, if there wasn’t nature of woman, you know, a varna-nature, you know what I’m saying, then what’s the meaning? But it’s not that they perform the duties of that varna to maintain themselves, but they’re the companion of someone who does. Right? Very subtle. That’s, this will be in its natural state. Right?
Then, okay, then one may say that in the modern scenario, then so many women are having to maintain themselves, have occupations, and that’s So, that is there, but the approach that is there is different still than the men.
Because the men, it’s an occupation. Then they have their family and their sadhana and all that. Women won’t separate it. So, the occupation is simply an extension of the family element. So, technically, what the woman is doing is, is approaching and applying the arts that she’s good at and making money from that.
Does that make sense? You know, it’s like, you know, the science of economics, then, the guy may know all the science and charts and this and that nice, and the woman’s good at it. It’s intuition. She just knows if you buy this, people are going to, you get this stock, people will buy it. You know, she has that feeling, which is the important element of making it work because you always have to take, a science has to be applied in the art, but they’re applying the art without the science. You know what I’m saying? So, technically, it’s art. So, that’s why women are called artists. You know what I’m saying? If you’re going to say a woman has a varna, then you would have to say it’s shudra.
Right? But, her nature is such she may be brahminical.
Does that make sense?
So, it’s not that, even if she’s a, you know, a business woman, she thinks like that, but still she’s applying the art. So, it’s still a shudra approach. So, that’s why it’s still not exactly the same. You know, because, you know, the men in the office, you just get the work done. The women, you have to do something. You have to make it nice and bright and fresh and, you know, nice, people have to dress nice, people have to talk nice and have proper interactions and so many things will be in consideration of that. Well, the men just get the work done and then it’s over, you can go home.
You know what I’m saying? So, the women will bring the home to the office and it makes it conducive for them to perform their art. So, it is successful.
But, ultimately, on the biggest levels, then at one point you generally see is when you need more of the science, it’s men who are doing it. You know what I’m saying? It’s like the top guys in finance in the world, they’re men, there’s no women.
But a woman, let’s say, in diplomacy, she can be very expert. So, you may have a woman who is the, what do you call her?
Yeah, the foreign minister or, you know, the home minister, the one that goes out and talks to the other countries, heads of states. Ambassador, these guys, they’re good at that because there’s an art there. Like that, you know. And so, the best of them can do that. Many times, they do it better, you know, in the modern scenario because they’re more sensitive than the men are. But at the same time, on certain levels, then it won’t. So, you always find is at a certain level, then, you know, when the science is necessary more, that’s when the women drop out. You understand? But up to that, whatever is the greatest, great element of their, how do you say, of their art, they’re better. Just like women are by nature artists. So, you’ll find in most families, the women can cook.
But when you come to, let’s say, those who make a living off of cooking, you know, chefs, you’ll probably find the majority are men. But it’s not that they’re not good women chefs. It’s just that they’re better artists. You know, but the men will find the science of the cooking and then he has the art side to it. You know? So, if it’s all science, then it won’t come out good because he can’t play the art. If it’s just art, then he can only go so far. Because you can only expand the art if it’s dependent upon the science. Right? The feminine nature can get more and more powerful dependent upon the masculine nature. As the masculine grows up, the feminine can go. Right? So, a more powerful woman connects herself to a man who’s more powerful than she is. Then he can move forward. You know, if he’s less powerful, she can’t go any farther.
Does that make sense? It’s a very, very subtle kind of thing. So, that’s why, unless one can understand all this, it’s not really a worthwhile discussion. We’re going to say all kinds of things, but, you know, will it happen? Does it happen?
You know what I’m saying? Yes? Is it that women are have difficulty understanding the science, or they’re not inclined to understand the science? The women have difficulty understanding the science. It’s not so much they have difficulty understanding it. The point is, is that the science will always be mixed with the art, which is mixed with the emotions.
You understand? Well, the man can look at a science with no emotions and no, no other considerations and just answer and analyze the science as it is. And then from that, then you get further understanding. Then you can bring that back and extend the art. Right? But when you take the art and you try to go, it’s just there’s theory, but it’s not where the realization is. The realization is in the art.
You know what I’m saying? You know, with time, then more and more of that applies because you’ve done it. In other words, the less intelligent here means the man can learn through hearing, not necessarily that he’s he will. Right? So, you know, your first class man learns by hearing, second class by seeing, third class by experiencing. But for women, because they deal with the art, they only learn through experiencing. So if it gives them experience, they learn it. If it doesn’t give them experience, they don’t learn it. Does this make sense? So that’s why they know it, but they can’t do it. And then it’ll go wrong and then they’ll, you know, think of a different way until finally they’re convinced that you have to do it in this particular way. So now it’s realization, but they learned it through third class intelligence. But the point is, is it’s gained. They have it. That’s why elders are protected.
Right? So these elders, senior women, then they’ve gone through this. They’ve experienced it. Now they can very confidently tell the younger women how it should happen.
Right? Because it’s experience. It’s, it’s, there’s realization but it’s in the field that these younger women are going to be able to appreciate. Well, the man explains it to the younger women. They may appreciate it or not because there may be too much science in it or too many rules in it. It’s not personal. It’s not living.
Does that make sense? So, like that. So there’s always that weakness. But the point is, is if the men aren’t there to protect those elder women, then those elder women aren’t going to train the younger women. Right? And the younger women aren’t going to be enthused if they’re not seeing the support of the elder men. Right? So in other words, because the elder men are there, that’s what you should do. They want to do it to please. Same time as they’re, they’re guided and taken care of by the elder women who give them specific details in their life. Right? The men won’t get into such detail. The women can.
You know what I’m saying? Does that make sense? Is that okay?
Yeah?
Yes.
Sensitive to the needs of the dependents.
What’s the doubt?
Sometimes I have seen that those that are in a management position, they say that, you know, just give up your conditioned nature, you know, just surrender. Why don’t they give up theirs and stop managing? Why don’t they wash pots for Krishna, go out and distribute books for Krishna, go out and just preach at colleges for Krishna?
The ones that do don’t say that.
Or the ones that do set an example then they should be able to explain to you how to. Because notice that they’ll tell you give it up but do they tell you how? No. Because they don’t know themselves. The point is does Gita say give up your conditioned nature? No. So then what philosophy are they talking? Yeah. It’s an impossible it doesn’t exist. When the four Kumaras asked the Hamsavatar when will the mind and the senses stop interacting? He said that’s a stupid question. And then when Kunti brings it up to Kapila he confirms that it’s a useless question. It’s not going to happen. The point is is that you’re supposed to engage your nature in Krishna’s service. So whether it’s material or spiritual that doesn’t matter. His point is is it engaged in Krishna’s service?
Right? So the point is to not give up your nature. How can you give up your nature? What are you going to function with then? You know? What they’re saying is give up your anxieties this and that but it sounds much better if you say it according to the you know so most managers use the Sarva Dharma Parityaja but according to that then what’s his position for saying it? Why is he saying it? Based on what? Has he done it? Right? He’s a manager. Why? Because he likes managing. You know why can’t he be satisfied doing something else?
You know? The point is is like Prabhupada said the temple should be centers of education. I mean so it means every temple should be having these courses and giving degrees to the qualified students. But why isn’t it happening? Because their nature is managers not Brahmins.
Right?
Does that make sense? Bury Johnson Vrindavan he starts you know a very you know dynamic program there and he’s part of the local management but how is it he’s able to do it and no one else is? Because he’s a Brahmin.
You know he knows how to manage you know education and the same principles you can apply in the temple because the schedule you’d have for the kids is the same as adults and vice versa so he can relate to that but if he gets bigger than that then it’s not doesn’t it’s not going to be his field.
You know what I’m saying? But because he’s a Brahmin therefore he can relate to it. But even if the president is not a Brahmin the point is he’s supposed to have advisors and those advisors at least some of them should be Brahmins and so then someone else can see to the education.
So not only do they they can’t give up their nature they won’t take their nature and actually improve it and expand it to include so it becomes complete. And then they’re going to tell you to give up your nature which is something against scriptures no scripture says give up your nature.
It says engage your nature. But you have to engage in a way that’s favorable for Krishna consciousness.
You you seem to be very meditative is that because he said something wrong or just contemplating all that or sorry okay yeah yeah but that was the most popular that he said yeah just give up surrender to Krishna give up that anything like that nice you know as he tells you before he has to go home because his wife’s calling him you know like that that’s the point so you’re out on St. Petain and he’s having to take his family you know out on something because he promised it was you know this birthday and he had to be there like that you know so I have no problem that the grhasas and they do these things but they shouldn’t they should understand it’s everybody’s engaged connecting their nature you know and if the brahmacharis and then and they put themselves in the senior position they should be protecting them not exploiting them you know at the same time they should be respecting them because they’re doing something he’s not doing now he may have done it before but he’s not doing it now you know full time service in the temple he’s not doing it you know does that make sense because for a grhasa full time means outside of family time then you’re doing service right but brahmacharis there is no family time so all they are doing is service of course they sleep you know harass each other steal maha you know important ok so here this problem with varna shankara what it means is varna shankara shankara means mixed so the varna is mixed so they don’t know what they are right they just don’t know who they are and so they don’t know how to act if you don’t know who you are you can’t act so then you have this mix of things you want to be in charge but at the same time you have this artistic thing just trying to get out at the same time you know you want to study all these things at the same time you have these great ideas for business you know so what do you do that’s the problem so you end up eventually with time one becomes more prominent and you kind of work that out but why waste you know 25, 30, 40 years of your life to figure that out it should be right from the beginning like bharat maharaj he knew he’s a Shakya so at 3 years old he’s going out catching tigers tying up with a rope and tying them to trees and then playing with them right and you know the tigers don’t seem to fight back because they know he’ll you know beat them so they’re quite submissive you understand he knows who he is you know Ashtavakra knows who he is in the womb of his mother he is giving points on grammar that his father gets so upset that you know who does he think he is that he curses him you know that he’ll have bent in 8 places you know and at 8 years old he goes and defeats the court pundit at 8 he stops the king’s procession on the road because the road belongs to the brahmins so the king wants to use it he has to come and talk to us you know he’s 8 and the king’s out with his whole army and the king agrees and he says you know ok let’s do this you know what do you want you know he wants to argue with the the the the you know the chief pundit the court pundit they don’t want him to because the rule is whoever is defeated by him gets drowned in the in the ocean right so they don’t want to see a kid get drowned in the ocean but he’s not worried about it right does that make sense it has to be able to fit in oneself in other words on the basis of the knowledge it has to be able you’re comfortable with it and you can apply it how do you get to know first of all understand the principle is that in application of something then you’re applying a field to get a particular result so what are the relationships in the field those are set and therefore and the performance of an activity is set if you want a specific result you know what I’m saying you want apple juice then you have to take apples put them in a blender and blend them right then you’ll get apple juice right you can’t take oranges and put them in and get apple juice you know or you can’t take the apple and you know stick it under the front wheel of your truck and then roll over it you know so it means in other words the field the activity and the goal have to be matched otherwise it’s not possible to get right so that means whatever is the result you want you have to perform that activity and you have to take up the role that goes with those two you know what I’m saying so if you want let’s say to make money in a business you have to follow the rules of a business even if your nature is not business you have to do it that way you know what I’m saying or you work at a job then that then you have to take up the nature or the means the duties of a shudra even if at the temple you’re the head pajari it doesn’t matter at the work you’re taking the position of a shudra you have to follow the rules of a shudra right if you’re doing something that’s brahminical you have to take that position otherwise there’ll be problems you know what I’m saying does that make sense so that’s the first point so one may find that one has a very clear nature or one may find that there’s many mixtures it doesn’t matter if it’s clear it makes it easy if there’s a mix whichever one is being applied that one you have to follow the rules for that not that well I’m a brahmin so therefore it makes a difference than at work no you’ve taken the position of a shudra you have to act like one when you go home then you be the brahmin but at work you’re the shudra that’s just the way it is so basically it’s very easy it means ashram are you how you say studying and not married right that’s a brahmachari right if you’re married or interested in being married or interested in all the facilities for being married you’re a grihasta right so when it’s been there done that but it’s still comfortable to work in that environment to do your service that’s vanaprastha right and when the position is that of indifference then that’s a sunyata so brahmachari means menial servant right grihasta means engaging the senses in the lord’s service vanaprastha means not engaging the senses you know in other words unfavorable engagement of the senses in the lord’s service right in other words what’s positive nice things are engaged vanaprastha means not nice things are engaged you know being very austere and all that focusing on it’s still like grihasta focused on the senses but now it’s in the reverse you know grihasta sees that he’s always getting things that are nice vanaprastha basically sees that it’s you know just minimal and that’s it only what needs to you need to get by so as devotees we don’t need to be that austere but it’s just don’t have anything extra that’s going to take away time from your sadhana and preaching right sunyata is indifference so then on the other side varna is if studying and teaching is the basis of your occupation you know and those things that are based on scriptures in other words applying the scriptural things to train others in or those occupations that are brahminical occupations like medicine or law like this that’s brahminical if it’s to do with administration and influence right that where protection is the central feature right not management not paperwork protection that’s where his point is that’s not kshatriya generally vaisyas make that point or kshatriyas make it because it’s controlled just surrender just do what you’re supposed to be dutiful you can tell the difference if it’s a kshatriya vaisya so so it’s protection vaisya means they generate economics they generate money and they give in charity and shudra means they help the others so it’s very simple so are you based is your basis education means where you’re leading that in other words brahmin kshatriya vaisyas are leading in their field you’re leading in economics in administration or in education and if you’re not then you’re a shudra it’s that easy because shudra is common person dweejas are the leaders of the common people right not that shudra means disgusting low class you know something on the bottom of your shoe you wipe off on the doormat you know like that no shudra is normal people if you go out on the street let’s say you go anywhere into you know your big city and go out on the street right you know in the middle of the city where there’s the maximum amount of people what are you looking at you’re looking at big big brahmins you know big professors or big doctors and that you know are you looking at you know the people who are administrating the city or the country are you looking at all those big big fat business men and all that or you’re looking at everybody else there might be one or two a limo drives by you know or you know one or two intellectuals might here and there go but the mass the thousands of people that go there you’re looking at shudras right so there’s nothing wrong with shudras the shudras need direction so therefore there’s those who direct in economics you need that administration to hold that control and create the environment and education so it’s actually very easy to figure out one’s varna and ashram it’s as easy to figure out one’s varna as to figure out one’s ashram but people are afraid of that because they don’t nobody wants to be the shudra but most devotees as an occupation they’re shudras most devotees as an occupation they’re shudras but they don’t oh no but we’re not this body of course you’re not but that’s the occupation that your condition of nature is doing your body your mind your intelligence your false ego is at a job right you know you may not be that job but somehow or another you’re not that job you’re sort of like the money that comes from that job so if you’re not that money then why is it you just give it to the temple oh you need that so then you’re responsible you did the work you get the result that means then you have to have the identity do you teach that to have like the power to do that uh teach technically not it’s just the way the vaisyas like to control everything and bring themselves under their control that’s the problem with the bourgeois society it sounds great you know it’s all for the benefit of everything but it’s actually then economy becomes the central feature rather than brahminical culture so teachers means if you’re a teacher you’re a doctor you’re a lawyer you know these kind of things these are traditionally you know brahminical activities that means but I mean a doctor I don’t mean a nurse or an anesthetist like that those are shudras to dhammas you know you’re a sales person or a marketing marketing manager and you’re still a shudra to the businessman because you have to you do the marketing but you can’t open your own if you’re doing marketing in a big company and you could open your own business but you know you’re working with here but you know still you’re in the position of a shudra but you technically could be a brahmin I mean a vaisya but if you couldn’t you know your job falls through in this company you go to another company that you’re a shudra generally most all the guys are the MBAs are shudras because they work for a vaisya a vaisya doesn’t have the degree he makes the money MBAs Master of Business Administration sometimes at least now it’s popular the businessmen go through that because somehow they’re more reputable or they’ll learn some things about the modern market that you may not catch you know but they could just buy the books and read them but you know so you know the atmosphere is there since you have to go to school anyway you might as well go for a business degree rather than something else you know what are you going to do with it you know but generally speaking they’re shudras you know architects are shudras unless they know the science the Vastu science and they’re based on that therefore they do it but generally speaking still they’re shudras the Vedic sense the guys that deal with the Vastu the silpis they’re shudras but they’re special shudras because they have to deal with the shastra so they have a brahman thread but they’re still shudras so they have a mantra that’s connected with the atara and the veda that deals with the forms of the deities but they don’t have the brahma gayatri but they wear a thread so you know that they’re that’s the head god so it’s very very subtle you know but very simple you know what’s your motive why are you doing it the brahman can sing the shudra can sing you know they both that’s what they do do is singing but one sings for the deity it won’t sing for the public the other one sings for the public because he makes money and occasionally they’ll sing for the deity at service you know what I’m saying the shudra is managing and he’s generating money because from money he can run the administration right and the shudra has administration I mean the vaisya has administration a big vaisya so that he he can then ensure that he makes lots of money so you can tell by the mentality even if even if what they’re doing looks the same does that make sense so it’s not a difficult science the difficulty is is generally speaking very few actually want to know what it is because no one wants to be the shudra no one wants to be the shudra everyone wants to be in charge so therefore then you use the philosophy oh we’re devotees it doesn’t matter yes we’re devotees it doesn’t matter so live in the temple or just do full time you know sit down and chant and do like that and preach then it’s fine but as soon as you want to come in and control things and manage things and make hierarchy and rules then you’re out of your element the shudra shouldn’t be doing that right of course now the people should be represented so you know what the people are comfortable with but at the same time the people don’t know what they should be comfortable with like that that comes from scripture so that is then the dweejas have to establish oh no but they’ll do it anyway oh no but they’re in charge just that but yeah but then you want to make a committee that’s not based on varnasha you’ll pick who’s in charge you’ll make rules to establish on everybody but they’re not God’s rules and you’re not qualified to apply them otherwise where are all those varnasha and committees where are they what have they ever done nothing where are they defunct they may be in the books they’re not functioning there’s a few devotees that they get right in there study it and do it themselves start a farm start a project they’re able to do something with it but the difficulty is they can only apply it on a farm they can’t apply it in the city that’s where the weakness comes and most devotees are in the city so there’s a weakness how to apply varnasha in the city but then you really have to know varnasha to do that you know what I’m saying it’s very very simple but the problem is no one wants to know about it they all talk about it but they don’t want to know about it so it’s either it can’t be applied which it can be that’s stupid it’s God’s laws why can’t it be applied if you say varnasha can’t be applied you’re saying there can be no human life in Kaliyuga everybody has to be animals that’s what you’re saying it’s that direct because human life starts with varnasha so if you’re not following varnasha you’re not human right does that make sense now let me say but no but devotional service devotional service is the part that’s beyond so yes it’s because of devotional service we are able to do some activities it’s not because you’re human you understand because if human devotional service wasn’t there what would you be doing nice pious things according to varnasha no you’d be doing all sinful nonsense according to you know the upstanding you know up-to -date religious that’s what we’d be doing so that’s not the point so this balance between understanding we’re not the body but at the same time being able to work with the body but generally devotees we’re not the body so they don’t consider the body or gross or subtle body at all or they say we’re not the body and then do things exactly according to their condition nature right you know women’s lib women’s lib we’re not the body and then exactly because they’re a woman they have to be able to do it if you’re not the body then you shouldn’t care whether you do it or not because you know why is it women have to be able to do it isn’t that bodily conception you just said we’re not this body and it doesn’t make sense does that make sense so it’s not that it’s a matter of service to krishna what will work is service to krishna what is best for service to krishna then you decide that’s why varnasana is there because it establishes what work will get done the best yes what is bourgeois society bourgeois bourgeois means the business class you know they have some money and therefore as they get more money then they want more influence because what happens is this you have your brahmins you have your nobility but then much of the time nobility may or may not be good at maintaining themselves and keeping up on the money but sometimes businessmen are very good at it so they’ll have more money than let’s say nobility but the nobility has the say in what things get done so then the bourgeois wants to have that control also because they’re living the same lifestyle but what they don’t see is that there are one is that if they’re untrained of course it’s not much difference but there’s more considerations of culture and religion and all that in the nobility than there would be in the businessmen you know what I’m saying because you see is that nobility is always worried about religion and certain cultural things and this and that even though it may be wrong how they’re dealing with it but still it’s very much part of their consideration of business people as long as it makes money it’s not so important maybe personally they have feelings but they don’t you know it’s like I think it was this Murdoch guy hmm the Australian star star the star TV kind of thing Rupert Rupert Murdoch so when it first came out then some you know journalists and all that approached him in an interview saying well you know wouldn’t you consider that the the stuff on the star TV is quite not up to a good social standard that might be degrading to the family life and everything social life and all that and his comment was I wouldn’t let my family watch it he says it’s just business people want this trash and I’m giving it to them and I’m making money from their idiotness you know but I won’t let my family do that you know so they may have personal values this is what I’m saying is they have personal values but in business it doesn’t matter right but the shakti is they have personal values everybody else better be doing it right does that make sense that’s the difference okay since Arjuna was influenced by false ego all of his apparently good arguments were actually tainted by selfishness he wanted to leave the battlefield because of family attachment because this is the biggest disgrace for a kshatriya still Arjuna tried to rationalize his cowardice deceiving himself that his reluctance to fight was caused by compassion wisdom and detachment he did not have the courage to face his actual motives because his self-esteem would be destroyed so this is why devotees can’t face varnasrama they feel that their self-esteem will be lost because it doesn’t matter like one famous example that you see I’ve talked to him for years and then after years I met the devotee I had heard about him he was in Nubandavan he would dress Radharani every day they get up at 2 in the morning and they would do the darshan like this all right after another it was back to back so by 6 o’clock in the morning then everybody went to the field so this devotee then after breakfast he’d go and drive a tractor for 12 hours all day and just plough the fields and then yeah and all he would do is talk about Chaitanya Charitamita had any discussion it was Chaitanya Charitamita oh what do you think of this and then he’d bring up things from Chaitanya Charitamita so all he’d do is talk Chaitanya Charitamita Leela and stuff like that but he’d drive a tractor all day so as sadhana as a devotee you know he’s doing deity worship right based on that and because of this he’s also absorbed in Krishna’s pastimes because these things are chanting Hare Krishna worshiping the deity they’re beyond these considerations right though there’ll be some influence you see how many people do you see generally you see someone either is very devotional or more brahminical they always are doing deity worship so then later on then this devotee took sannyas and then I one day I was in a meeting and all that and I think he came up to me and he said I’m the one I always talk about I used to use the example quite regularly so driving the tractor he’s driving it from the position of the shudra he does it right they tell him where to go he’s not the big guy telling you know they say plow this field he plows it right he drives the tractor according to how a tractor has to be driven so he’s doing the art of driving a tractor at the same time as there seems to be that underlying brahminical nature but in that situation then this is what was available for him right because you know they were thinking wow this guy could teach chaitanya charita or teach deity worship no they think we have a field to plow so he’s doing it but later on he’s taking sannyas you see underlying nature was actually brahminical but when he was doing shudra activities he’d do it perfectly and he had no problem that he was you know rudder on his you know pajari at the same time he drove a tractor all day you know and he wouldn’t talk prajalta he’d only talk about chaitanya lila you see so devotees can come and understand what are their motives what’s their position then there’s no problem then you take that and connect it to krsna but they’re so worried about their social prestige and self esteem that you know oh i’m doing this or i’m doing that you know what i’m saying point is someone has a brahminical nature but he can’t maintain himself that way he goes out and gets a job but he still has to act at that job like a shudra you know when the job’s over then he goes back to being a brahmin it’s not ideal it’s mixed it’s not recommended but that’s the way it is you know you know so you’re going to have then two opposing arguments to this point the pro-vedic will say no but if he’s doing shudra work he’s not actually a brahmin you know he’s only doing the devotional activities because of the nature of his soul is beyond so he’s actually a shudra and then the more liberal how can you say he’s a shudra you know doing that in that situation because you know he’s a brahmin we’re not this body you understand both have missed the point point is whatever you’re doing you have to do it according to the nature of what you’re doing it’s not that you can do it how you like you know the brahmacari is the temple president fine but he has grihasthas in his community fine he’s dealing with those grihasthas he can’t deal with them like a brahmacari he has to deal with them because as grihasthas understanding their needs and how they deal right so that’s the way it is you can’t say we’re brahmacaris we don’t get into this kind of stuff no it doesn’t matter you’re taking a position where you’re taking care of people under you and dependents happen to be grihasthas you have to deal with them vice versa when the grihastha is the temple president he has to deal with the brahmacaris according to their need and nature you can’t say oh that’s all fanatic and all that you know both of those positions would be irreligious sinful no but we’re doing it for krsna but are you dealing badly with grihasthas or brahmacaris and that’s for krsna you don’t know their nature and you’re supposed to be in charge of them and you’re dealing against their nature and that’s why did krsna deal with arjuna against his nature he’s a ksatriya did he sweet talk him no he just told him you’re a fool you’re an idiot right no ksatriya what you know no i can do it you know so he’s like that and he left him in the position of a ksatriya so he dealt with him as a ksatriya everything like that so what what is this where is this concept come from we’re not this body so we can do anything like that technically whatever you can do nicely for krsna yes you can do it doesn’t matter the head pajari cleans the toilet that doesn’t matter that’s nice he’ll probably do a better job than anyone else because he knows what cleanliness is he hasn’t seen a rag before right so does that make sense but it doesn’t mean now he’s a sudra doesn’t make sense now if he takes up his occupation is now just cleaning toilets and that’s how he makes his money then he has to do that as a sudra you can’t walk into your house and say okay i’m a brahman and i’ll tell you how it’s done no it’s like i’m hiring you you do it the way i want that’s why brahmans as a policy don’t accept the position of sudra because then sudra means you’re going to be insulted in some way because people are telling you what to do and you may like or not like to do it and that’s just the way it is you want the job you have to do it does this make sense so there’s very very fine points that seem contradictory but they’re not that’s why in the vedic system it said you know a brahman shouldn’t do these things because but if that’s all there is that’s what you do what’s our opinion of Vidura he’s a sudra what about sanjaya he’s a sudra what about daruka krishna’s charioteer he’s a sudra matali sudra you understand so it’s not that the position of sudra isn’t respected right what about urvasi technically unless she marries a king or something then she’s a queen but otherwise technically she’s a position of a sudra but they’re all respected so that’s the thing is it’s not that sudras aren’t respected but it means you’re good at what you’re good at you’re respected for that just like you know does that make sense so that’s the point is that sudra is common so there’s no special respect for it brahman is special therefore whether you’re very good at or not so good the position is special therefore it’s respected but sudra is the common point so therefore it’s not doesn’t separately stand and have its own respect but you’re very good at your field then you’re respected for that you’re respected for your ability i remember in one it was a an article i saw it was referring it was i think they were talking about this the either the the state candidacy or even the presidents presidential candidacy this was quite some time back maybe in the 80s or 90s and in one um article it was an interview you know a serious interview um of who was considered like the top you know society girl in san francisco i think she was very famous she was so well known and i guess so expert in her field that they were asking her questions about you know the greater society what would be good for you know the presidential candidate no i think it was the state election i think it was for you know governor and these kind of things you know what things she would think would be good for people to be involved in this and that she was getting very nice considerations you know i guess because she deals with a very wide range of people so she has a but the point is is that when you get to a certain level one is respected right and you might find that these administrators and other you know intellectuals are taking her advice you know in that that field that they feel she might have something to say but you can be sure that they’re not going to marry their son to her right so she still has that social standing but it’s not that in that social standing she’s not respected why is it Bhagavatam always mentioned the society girls right they’re very respected in the society but they’re still society girls right so that’s the thing the vedic culture you can accommodate that an individual can have a position but at the same time others can also have a simultaneously have a position based on whatever it is gives them their position right the western is always one way I’m in charge you’re in nothing you know right unless you’re networking then you try to do this or that but actually if you have something going on somebody has to be in charge somebody’s not the vedic is you can have who’s in charge or not who’s in charge can still respect who the junior for his qualities you know I think probably was talking about either was either yeah Bosch I don’t remember if it was Bosch meaning his company the company in charge of the Bosch industries or Bosch meaning the the freedom fighter but in any case he was talking about because in either one they’re either Kshatriyas or Vaishyas and but he he used to many times when he’d want to go out and contemplate things very deeply he’d go out for a drive in his car with his driver you know the driver was an elderly man and asked a lot of things to run so much of his ideas past the driver he’s a driver but he has a lot of experience in life so his age he’s he’s respected for his age and his experience in just day -to-day life so then you know things that he had they could they could give advice because they know common people you know the Shudra knows common people so he can say yes people would prefer this or wouldn’t that or this is their anxiety with the government now or this is that or this is you know they can say so they’re respected so in the Vedic society these people are brought in to give their opinion they’re not brought in to run the place the king still runs the place but he takes advice from elders so specifically Brahmins but also Sathya’s Vaisesa Shudras in the fields where it’s applicable that he needs direction does this make sense you know so a community leader may be asked you know what about this policy the king wants to apply this policy so they’ll find out what the community leader thinks of it the community leader is just generally speaking another Shudra they just need a bigger one that can you know organize more people does that make sense you know so like that it’s a it’s it’s it’s a very sophisticated system very simple but very sophisticated the westerns also have a problem with this concept that you can have something that’s simple and sophisticated to them simple means it’s not sophisticated and complex means sophisticated no but the vedic is the opposite simple is the most sophisticated because it’s so consistent that everything is connected so there’s a very simple explanation for it and it works very simply very straight forward but it’s so sophisticated it can accommodate great variety of things Arjuna tried to avoid his social obligations as a warrior by pleading so called higher moral principles thus he wanted to establish moral principles over social obligations right so moral principles is on pranamoy and that he’s trying to establish over dharma right so artha he’s trying to establish as above dharma so that’s a problem here right because being nice be good be consistent but then he has a moral obligation i mean he has a religious obligation as a kshatriya to fight right but he’s trying to say no being good being nice but it’s actually coming from pranamoy it’s just justice and economics it’s not actually that you know why we should get involved in this you know because he’s coming up with that he’s you know Arjuna wanted to but since the lord himself was resolved for the fight all those apparently important considerations were without substance right because it only has meaning if you connect it to krishna krishna wanted to fight so where’s the connection was reasoning and emotions have meaning only when they are connected with the lord Arjuna wanted to abandon his duty and live an idle life of frustration but since the soul is always active it is not possible to stay in such superficial position for a long time Srila Prabhupada comments in path of perfection in bhagavad-gita Arjuna was refusing to act and krishna was inspiring him to engage in activity the entire bhagavad-gita is an inspiration to work to engage in krishna consciousness to act on krishna’s behalf sitting still in one place is just for those who do not know how to work sensibly as long as the child sits in one place he does not raise havoc sitting still means negative nonsense negating nonsense it is not positive activity in negation there is no life positive activity constitutes life and positive activity is the message of bhagavad-gita spiritual life is not don’t do this spiritual life is do this right the don’t do this is those things that get in the way of do this like i said before if we make this community thing oh then can’t do this can’t do this can’t do this can’t do this but it’s negative it doesn’t actually stop that’s why there’s no community there’s no life community means life so it has to be dynamic what should be done what should be going on right oh yeah if they get divorced kick them out okay so cool okay nice but you know but that’s the negative is there a positive you know see that people are trained properly see that you know proper matches are made see that people are within marriage and seeing that is going on that they know what to do any resolution like that go ahead knock me out no nothing why because no one in that room can do any of that that’s why right we’re not saying divorce is correct we’re just saying is that the point is divorce is happening after so many other failings so what are you going to do about those failings you know that make sense you know there’s no railing on the roof and so you make a rule you know any kid who goes up on the roof you know we’re going to kick out of the community right so then he goes up on the roof falls off the roof and then they kick him out so but wouldn’t it be easier to make railings you know but that means you have to know what’s there you know you have to know what a child is you know how big they are how what they can climb what they can glide through right so that means you have to be knowledgeable you have to be learned you have to be an elder you know age isn’t enough for elder here when they say elder they don’t mean age right because they’re worried if the elders are killed who are the elders in this consideration the Kshatriyas is that what you said yeah Drona but otherwise but but so they’re only worried about those two or no what about all the kings that are there are they elders in their kingdom right how old is Abhimanyu 16 but he’s he’s worried that he’s killed then this whole process will stop because then if he’s killed then his wife who may be 12 years old or 14 years old won’t be protected right so he’s an elder the elder means you know the value of the Vedic system and you are working to establish it and to make it accessible to those who are dependents right so positive means what are you doing to make it work right in order to act properly there are certain things that one must know not to do therefore certain activities are forbidden right so Brahma says it’s only because there are certain you’re supposed to act properly so since you can’t act properly therefore just like you’re supposed to chant Hare Krishna but the four good principles are there because when one is doing those four generally one is not chanting Hare Krishna right that makes sense you know unless unless somehow or another I don’t know you have an Australian left handed you know those machines you know you put it yeah the one on bandits they’re generally always the right now it’s hard and how are you going to chant your japa and polka one of those at the same time poker you can’t play poker and your japa at the same time you understand so they don’t allow for these things you know what I’m saying like that so there’s no way to connect it to Krishna right you know husband and wife are having a relationship but they can connect that to Krishna but if it’s not husband and wife how do you connect that to Krishna so therefore you can’t think of Krishna that’s the problem moralists will have another idea what’s wrong with it but the real problem is is these are the most intense activities that take one’s consciousness away from thinking of Krishna does that make sense that’s why they’re not done there’s certain things one must know not to do therefore certain activities are forbidden the whole bhagavad-gita however is do Krishna’s saying fight he’s not saying don’t he’s not going don’t be so attached right he’s not saying fight Krishna says fight for me at the beginning of bhagavad-gita when Arjuna told Krishna I will not fight fight Sri Krishna said my dear Arjuna how are these impurities come upon you they are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life they do not lead to higher planets but to infamy right so he’s talking about proper doing things and getting proper result Krishna directly tells Arjuna that he is speaking like a non Aryan that that is like one who does not know the spiritual values of life so Krishna conscious does not mean sitting down idly Krishna himself does not sit down idly all his pastimes are filled with activity when we go to the spiritual world we will see that Krishna is always engaged in dancing eating and enjoying he does not sit down to meditate is there any account of the Gopis meditating did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu sit down to meditate no he was always dancing and chanting Hare Krishna the spirit soul is naturally active how can we sit down silently and do nothing it is not possible this is path of perfection although an illusion Arjuna had the valor to reveal his doubts and to seek the shelter of Krishna he was a kind and soft-hearted devotee as such he was fit to receive spiritual knowledge so even though he had this problem and that basically was based on on how you say pious and you know how you say activities though the motives may not have been up to the standard but still he was able to reveal these which we see Duryodhana is not he is revealing Duryodhana is not he is approaching authority to get guided by them while Duryodhana is approaching authority to get them to do what he wants right so we see in all these cases the opposite between the divine and the demoniac mentality right so then this makes them fit to receive so now we’ve got chapter 2 then we have the contents of the Gita summarized so it appears we’ll start on Monday instead of today so then one should read this nicely and read what’s here in other words if you’ve read all this it’s not new when we talk about it so you’ll be able to go farther one of the difficulties we’ve had if you’ll notice means it’s not a problem means is that the questions even though they’re they’re connected but sometimes they’re not exactly the topic right especially varnashrama it’s a very broad thing so it’s not the whole varnashrama system here to talk about specific in it but that will give rise to varnashrama and as we go we may end up with you know things about gurus or this you know other things that things that are topical you know within the society will come up so be sure that your question is in connection to that even though it may be a little extended but in understanding it in relationship to the Gita don’t just go off into it because it’s a personal interest because otherwise like this then the delay goes does that make sense like that but as we go these points will become more and more understood so as we go we’ll probably find we can go quicker and quicker through the chapters but these first few chapters will probably I would say the first six chapters probably will be more slow because then after that it goes into devotional service generally there’s not much question and then the last chapters are very technical spiritual so if you’ve read them so if you’ve read it it’s not a new concept so you’re not trying to get your head around the concept so if you’ve read the book read this the study guide so that the concepts aren’t new now it’s a matter of fitting together taking them farther seeing how to apply them right then you’re going to get the most out of them yes no ok so om hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare srila prabhupada ki samaveta bhakti vindaki pracarita gaura pranirandi
