HH Bhaktividyā Pūrṇa Svāmī Mahārāja: [prema dhvani]
So the basic principle, the Vedic concept, in the raising of children is that the goal of it is no different than what one is trying to do in one’s own life. In other words, become God conscious, to elevate oneself, to improve the position that you are in. Human life means to improve, develop, right? Because animals, they don’t develop, right? Means, they stay at it, they start as an animal, they end as an animal, you know, like that. So that is its purpose, to live out those kind of aspects of one’s desires. Therefore the animal, right, one has a desire in a particular area, one takes up that form of the animal in those situations, one goes through that experience. So the animal experience is for the animals, and human experience is meant for elevation, for actually development.
So, therefore, the point is, is you can train the children in elevation and God consciousness if that is your interest, right? Like there is a saying, the apple doesn’t fall very far from the tree. So that is the whole point, is that much of the time, what we are looking at in the children is ourselves. And so, if we are frustrated that things are not going well, the whole point is, is if we use this example, then who are we actually to be frustrated with? That is the other one. So, this whole concept means that if you are making the effort, so then in making that effort, we are going to be able to see ourselves in our own life, what things are working, what things are not, right? Because we are taking an aspect of the philosophy, we are applying it in our life, we see what is working, what is not working, then contemplating, trying to take it further. So then we will be able to do that, help others with the same process. If you can’t help yourself, how will you help others? Because yourself, you are so closely connected, right? it is kind-of like, you have to think about it. Yourself, you know all the things you think, all what you desire, what you want, you know, all the intimate details. And if you can’t figure yourself out, how are you going to figure someone else out? It is not that you can’t say something that another person can’t take and use to advantage, even if you don’t know who you are. But the point is that it is not very scientific, that is more up to their credit, their ability to apply what you said. You know, when you say “you can take gold from a dirty place,” it is not the dirty place’s glory. it is the glory of the person who can take it, right? So in this way, if we ourselves can be serious about self-realization, then we will be able to take that and help others apply it in their life – that is the point.
You hear something – that is śravaṇa. Then you are going to take that and contemplate its application and make the endeavor to apply. In doing that, then we see what works and what we didn’t, we need to think more about. Then, in that further contemplation, we will apply that further development in our thought and take it a step further. So we continue doing this until it just becomes the point where we realize: actually it is not just an intellectual thing, it actually becomes a value, a practice, a meditation. Value is something you meditate on, so you become fixed in that. So that is the principle. Then, from that platform, it is very easy, very easy to help others. That is the whole idea, that is the natural cycle: I have heard from the teacher, I practice it. When now I realize the value of what I have heard, now I can teach it to others. So that is the best position, is that if we are seriously practicing, then the children will see that and take that up. But even if we are not so developed, if we are serious about whatever stage we are in, we will be able to give that. The point is, is you can give what you have. You can’t give something you don’t have. So if we have the sincere desire to develop God consciousness, even though we are not necessarily ourselves very advanced, we can give that sincere desire to want it. Do you understand? And then the individual takes it and practices.
So, it is important that it is not just some technique or some trick. The point is, is they are an individual. And so we ourselves are individuals. So if you can help an individual, means, starting with yourself, you can help other individuals, that is the whole point. Why is someone who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, why are they more successful in the preaching field? Because they know more tricks, they know more lines? No, it is because they are more convinced. Right? That is leadership. Leadership means you are convinced. You practice it, you do it, that is why you are a leader, it is not some technique. Much of the time nowadays we try to take everything down to some technique. Technique is important, of course. But more important is the basis of that technique, is the mentality we have. How we view it, how we feel about it, what is our character? Because great technique, if you don’t have character, is not really going to give good results. Does that make sense? Just like, let’s say, someone has good character, and they… You have two people that have, they both know the technique of how to convince others of something, okay? Now, one has good character, one has bad character. Okay? Now the person with good character, how is he going to use this technique of convincing somebody? To do something good. But someone who is not a good character, what will he convince something to do? Not good. Do you understand?
So technique is not enough. There has to be that move, there has to be the position to try to be God conscious. Because that is the point. It means that one takes care of the child, takes care of the physical needs, emotional needs, intellectual needs. That is natural, because that is what one does out of attachment, out of affection, one is driven to see these things. So, that attachment is there, then we have the drive to be involved. It is not very often that someone, without having that attachment, has the drive. Does that make sense? How many teachers are there? Right? There is not a whole… Okay, I am just saying… Okay, I am just saying… [Laughter] I am just saying, it is not an overwhelming volume of people. Why? Because they are the rare individuals that don’t mind putting effort into someone else’s kid. You understand? Very few people can sit there and take care of someone else’s kid. The parent takes care of their own child because of a natural attachment. So the advantage of that is, they will put in the effort. It is not expected you will take care of someone else’s child. If you do that, then you can be a teacher. But otherwise, if you are only going to be, you know, due to attachment, you are only interested in dealing with your own child, that is fine, as long as then the effort is put in.
You also have to understand this, that it is like anything else, what effort you put in, that is what you get back. Does that make sense? If I take two minutes to cook dinner, what do I get back?
Mātājī(1): Maggi noodles.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, Maggi noodles. You know, that is what they get back, right? I made the great effort to call up the pizza delivery place. [Laughter] Do we understand? You put in more effort, you get more back. So the same is there with individuals. You put in that effort, you get the return. Does that make sense? So, yeah.
So, that means, there must be that attention, there must be that focus, there must be that effort. So, therefore, if we have that understanding of the spiritual element, that we are trying to practice, and then we are naturally working on the principle, trying to benefit the children, then… And we use our intelligence to get it done, like you said here, the process is, of education, is hearing, contemplating in practice, then one realizes. So, practice without contemplation, contemplation without practice, you don’t get the effect. So that means it is, that we may have a feeling about something, but it is not that you don’t have to use your intelligence to apply it. Right? You get something done because you are applying your intelligence to the present moment. If you only apply the emotions, it is not enough. Technique works by intelligence. The emotion is there that you put in the effort, you will see that the effort is done nicely. Do you understand? But intelligence must be used to apply the effort. So it is not that, “It is my child, I have these values, so naturally my child will have the same values.” It doesn’t work like that. The point is, is the child is their own individual. They don’t know what you are thinking. You feel they should know, but you have to remember, is that in the principle, you will feel that oneness with the child, the child feels the difference. So you can’t take it for granted that they are going to feel what I feel. No, it is different. The position is different.
Just like Kṛṣṇa, the whole creation is His, so it is not different from Him. So that is the oneness, that is therefore the affection. But the individuals in the creation, they see the difference. So if the attitude is right, the interaction is nice, the attitude is not, it is not. So you can’t take it for granted, that “It is my child, they will automatically do what I want, they automatically understand what I am saying. I give some simple indication, and that will take them their whole life.” Nothing works like that. I put in five minutes into work, and I get back, you know, unlimited money for my whole life. You have a scheme like that? Anyone has got one like that? Five minutes work, you know, money the rest of your life? You can see that advertised on the side of your… How you say? Whatever page you are looking at. No? Right? So, that is how people feel, that is how they think. Otherwise, why do they have stupid ads like that? You know, “Secret That Nobody Wants You To Know”, “What The Rich People Never, Never Tell You.” Working hard. Yeah, it is called hard work. [Laughter] Like that. That is what they don’t tell you. Does that make sense? So, this is the thing, is that you put in that effort, then you get a result. You can’t take it for granted that the child will automatically know. You can do that, the wife can do that to the husband, but you can’t do that to the kids. It is the husband’s business to figure out what you are thinking, but your kids, you have to tell them. Because you have to look at it. Let us look at it. Okay, let’s be fair here. Now, the wife is in the feminine position, the husband is in the masculine position. Therefore, the wife being basically the emotional center of that relationship, so what is being felt is the masculine’s business to figure out, right? Fair enough, okay? Now, but if we look at the parent-child relationship, the child is in the feminine position, the parent is in the masculine position. So, what does that mean? It means it is the parent’s business to figure out what the child is thinking, not vice versa. Does that make sense?
That is the point. We have to know how the relationships work. So, that is why we said you can’t take it for granted. You can’t just think, “My kid, what I value, they will naturally do.” It means you teach them, you train them, you give the example, you encourage, then yes, there is a good chance they will take it up. Why are they here in your family? Because they have a similar mentality, that is how it works. Right? But they are not exact same. You know what I am saying? They are a different living entity. There is something in common that brings together as a family. But, they are not the same person, they are a different person. So, it is not like looking in the mirror. Generally, you can get on really well. Whenever you look, they kind-of look back, you laugh, they laugh. It works pretty good. But the kid is a different entity, a different living entity, one has to be aware of that. So, the effort has to be made. Then, that is there. So, naturally, if the sense of training, sense of duty, doesn’t… [Phone ringing] Is that my phone? [Laughter] Because this person is in India. Wow.
Mātājī (2): He is out of reach.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah. The sound matches the person. [Laughter] That is not my main tone, that is only for this person. Funny, I was thinking to call them today.
Mātājī (1): This person always calls you during class.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah. No, he does. You always hear that one, right?
Devotees: Yeah, yeah…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, so it’s always the same. Okay, so even distance doesn’t change the principle of the relationship.
Mātājī (3): Now, your kids understand your mood, Mahārāja. They are… Now, your kids understand your mood, they are calling to you.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: No, it is not the kids.
Mātājī (3): Okay. I mean… [Laughter]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes. Means, so, the aspect is that there is the sense of duty that is there that one takes care of that, but generally one sees the drive will be the natural attachment. So then this is where that attachment then has to be engaged in the Lord’s service because the point of human life being to become God conscious, then the duty is to make that endeavor to become God conscious. So now, if the motive to do that is material attachment, that is fine, as long as that attachment is then used in the Lord’s service. So, because of attachment, therefore I am trying to make my own kid God conscious. So, then it works fine. We always have to remember: just because you are attached doesn’t mean that you know what you are doing. Right? You are attached to eating, doesn’t mean you know how to cook. You know what I am saying? You have to learn how to cook. I mean, the kid wants to drive, does that mean they know how to? No, they have to learn. So, attachment is not enough. You actually have to make the endeavor to use your intelligence in what you are doing. The attachment will be an impetus to be involved in the process. But you actually have to apply yourself properly to the process. Does this make sense? Yeah? Means, in this kind of discussion, if there is questions at any time, you know, or what we are discussing, then you bring it up. Yes?
Mātājī (4): If you put in a lot of effort but the child doesn’t respond, what do you do then?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Then, what aren’t they responding to?
Mātājī (4): Well, in my example it is like preparing a lot of material for some information that they want, and then they just avoid using it. Like, you spend a lot of time getting audio files and video clips and everything, and then you give it to the child, like you put in a lot of effort, and then the child is afraid of whatever, they won’t be able to use all of the material… I mean, no, they want the knowledge and they are asking for it, and then, you know, you do your part, and then you hand it over and you try to engage them and make time to discuss and [Indistinct] them, but they just don’t receive it, they don’t…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: But do they understand the value of it, the importance of it?
Mātājī (4): Well, they asked you for it.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: But what is the depth of the asking? You know what I am saying? See, so it is, what comes up here is that you are… Are you worried that they are not responding to the knowledge itself, or to the effort you have put into that, gaining that, gathering that knowledge?
Mātājī (4): The knowledge itself. [Indistinct] information...
HH BVPS Mahārāja: But then, why I am asking is because you were emphasizing the element of the effort you put into it.
Mātājī (4): Yeah, because earlier you said that, you know, if you put in the effort, you get…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Oh, okay, okay, that is the connection, okay. So, the, but the point is, is the, it is, that is how you would look at the effort. You have to find what kind of effort works on the child. You know what I am saying? So therefore, you have done a separate effort, then the volume may be way beyond, or the accessibility is not there. Otherwise, it is not… So, you have to find a way that it makes it accessible, either involving them in the process, or pointing out to them how they can look it up themselves, or, in other words, if it was of interest to find it, then you could show them how it is of interest to find it. In other words, if you like getting that information, then you can teach them the interest of getting that information.
Mātājī (4): In this case, it is a long-distance thing, so they are not face-to-face, but the child is just not making the time for that, because that is exactly what I want to explore, like show them how to use it and how to find it themselves.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay, but then they don’t value the importance of looking for knowledge.
Mātājī (4): I don’t think they understand it.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, but that is what you have to teach. The point is, is if there is no interest in it, then… So in other words, “Oh, you know, what about like this, this kind of knowledge?” Then tell them that this is where they can find it. Look on this web page, or this or that, instead of the whole volume of information, it’s files or stuff, just give them a link for it. You know, it is just like before, there was this interesting thing, it means it was this… How you say? It was kind-of… Means, it is an archaic kind-of thing, this strange kind-of solid, very weighty thing called a book that generally in a lot of houses, they had kind-of stacks of these, and a particular large group of them was called an encyclopedia. [Laughter] And then when they were interested in something, then the parents would point out that you can look in this book, and it works in this alphabetical order, so it kind-of goes the same as how do you learn the alphabet, and you can find the information and get involved. So nowadays this kind-of thing, it will be, if you are looking, you know, through the computers and the internet and this and that, so teach them the element of being interested in how to find knowledge. Because the point is this: you are only going to study knowledge if you are interested in it. Does that make sense?
Mātājī (4): Yeah, I think I just feel in some cases it’s like you can take the horse to the water but you can’t make it drink.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, so then in that case, then don’t worry about it. It also depends on the age. Sometimes it is just something to create conversation. You know what I am saying? Or to create some kind of interaction, or… So you have to judge what is the desire or what is the need. That is why I am saying, that is what I am meaning the effort. The effort is how, what is the relationship, how it is responding, how it is developing. You know what I am saying? Because otherwise if it is, the effort is put into these secondary elements, which are necessary, but the… It is the primary aspects of the relationship that are where you have to focus the effort. The secondary will naturally follow. If there is concern for the individual then the detail of where that concern can be applied will come up. Does that make sense? Yeah. And the point is, is that you have to remember, is basically when you are dealing with the parental rasa, it is pretty much a one-way street. It means you are putting in the energy and they may or may not respond. Does that make sense? That is just the way it works. Like that. So where you will get that balance is not necessarily off of the same external response. You know, you put the effort into that, so therefore they are going to take it and study it. Like that. It has got to be the effort that is put in to understand the mood, the mentality, what they are looking for, you know, that kind of thing. Then that they will respond to. Does that make some sense? Yes?
Mātājī (3): Mahārāja, is it necessary that both the mother and the father should share the same way of educating their kid, or…? Because if I say in a strict way, and if the father is very cool to the kid and helping the kid, and then the child will get a different understanding of the point, right? So how do we do that? [Indistinct]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: The general and the traditional and natural how it falls is that with the boy the father is the one who is the strict one, the mother is the one who is pleasant. With the daughter it is the opposite, that is generally how it works. Because the point is, is that the similarity of view and the mentality and all that, so therefore there you can be more strict. And if there is the difference, then that is where you show the pleasant. So that is where the two will balance. But there should be a common, amongst the parents, there should be a common understanding of what are the standards. The standards have to be the same. If the parents have different standards, then the kid will get confused. It is not about who is the good guy and who is the bad guy, it is about… It doesn’t matter, the good guy and the bad guy will both end up out of the equation. [Laughter] Because if the parents don’t have a common knowledge… So, therefore, that is why in the Vedic tradition, then it is mother, father and teacher, with these three there should be a common standard. Then it works very nicely. It is not just mother, just father or like this. It has to include all three. Because the principle is, you do learn from the parents because you are living with them and they are close, but you also learn from others. So if you can’t learn from the teacher, you won’t be able to learn from others either. You know what I am saying? So the principle is complete with these three. Therefore the parents are careful to see that they have a common understanding, and they choose an educational experience or those who will take a leading role in their life that have similar values. Does that make sense? Just like parents that are conservative send their kids to schools that are conservative. Those who are liberal send their kids to schools that are liberal. You know what I am saying? Is that…? So, that is the whole point. You have to match the whole thing. Because that is where the effect is.
Okay, so, now on that point of commonality. So, this is the point, you are trying to create something common. So, that comes because there is commonality. So, that means if you want to be successful at raising a child, then the point is, is the parents also need to be fairly successful in being able to communicate and have common ground. Because when the child gets the same kind of… How you say? The same general flavor and principle from all the different aspects of their life, that then sets something very standard. Otherwise, if it is different between the parents and the teachers, then you end up with, the child gets confused. And the fun part is, don’t worry if there is a problem between the mother and the father, then, best don’t involve the child. You know, don’t try to get the child to take sides. Because you don’t have to worry: they won’t. They will pick their friends – that is the way it works. The husband and the wife, they try to use the child to, you know, at each other and this and that. The child will not pick either of them, they will pick their friends. Because the friends are just friends, there is no political agenda, there is no this or that. So, one has to be very, very careful. Don’t think, “Oh, I am so attached to them, so therefore they are this much attached to me.” But the point is, the attachment has to be as a person, not as paraphernalia. Children are not paraphernalia, they are people. So you have to deal with them in that way. These are important.
So, therefore, the Vedic concept is that the husband and wife, they have similar nature. Therefore, that is why, that is the principle of finding someone to be involved with. A partner is defined by similar nature, it is not other aspects. It has to be, you know, all the levels and aspects that you are interested in, you make that equal. Then, the relationship is balanced, therefore the kid is balanced. But if the natures are too different, the child will have both of those different natures. So it works for the parents because they only have one of that. But then for the child, they have both. So then there will be a conflict. It will be hard for them to figure out who they are. If you don’t know who you are, how do you act? I do something because I know who I am. Right? Does that make sense? You know, you have a plate of prasāda and there is your self. If you know prasāda is what is eaten and you are the one who does eating, then you can establish a relationship. You know what I am saying? But if you can’t figure that out, it doesn’t work. So it is simple. So that is where the Vedic element starts.
So then that means that if the parents have good communication, good camaraderie, good companionship, then that is going to make a solid foundation for the child to be balanced, to be comfortable. Because if the parents are comfortable with themselves and with each other, then the child will be comfortable with that same environment and that same identity. Do you understand? You know, the parent is comfortable, knows who they are, the child will know who they are. The parent doesn’t know who they are, the child won’t know who they are. Now, it may appear to us that we are doing okay. We don’t know who we are, but we have to go to work, we have to pay the bills, we have to do all these different things. But the kid doesn’t have that responsibility. Therefore, the kid may not apply themselves because they can’t see this. They don’t see.. You know, when they go, okay, give them one to 30, then they will figure it out. But the idea is to try to… Why they should be wasting their time until they hit 30? They should know earlier. So, therefore, there must be the quality of the relationship that you have that is going to affect the quality of the child’s nature. It is said that… How you say? The family that the child is born into, because there is commonality of nature, that will be part of the aspect where you can tell the nature of the child. But the other is by the association. So, they are born in the family, but it is going to continue by the association of the members of the family or whoever they are associating with. That defines nature.
So, it is then very important that this aspect, that if the parents have the same view, the child will have the view. You can’t expect that the parents can’t work it out and the child will. How is that going to work? It can’t be that the parents can’t get along on things, can’t see eye to eye, and then the kid is going to have a very clear, exact understanding. No, if the parents are not clear, the kid won’t be clear. And if he is not clear because it is natural one wants to be, he will find a place that makes sense. And as we said, especially in the contemporary environment, that will be with friends at school. They won’t have as strong an influence when they are younger. But starting from 11, you will see it switches, starts to switch from the parents to the peers. And by the time 13, it is very solid. So, unless you are clear on your values, you have been able to show them these values, then, you know, they will start to find their own values. If they have a good foundation, based on that, then they will expand. If there is no foundation, there is no standards, you just think, “No, let them do whatever they like.” Then they are going to do whatever they like. And don’t complain when they start doing things that they like that you don’t like. It is just the way it works. You have standards, they will learn that. You don’t have standards, they will make their own. Yes?
Prabhu (1): Isn’t it it is not good to argue in front of them? In settling an issue… [Indistinct]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: No. No, it shouldn’t happen in front of them. Because as far as they see… You always have to remember that the parents, the husband and wife, they look at it that this is some kind of, you know, this is a contract that we have entered into, that they very much may appreciate. And if they like it, they will continue. If they don’t like it, they will drop it. Do you understand? Right? You know, therefore you have, people get together, get married, and they have divorces. You know, it is of their free will, what they like, what works best for them. Right? It is just a legal consideration. No? But now, what about the child? The child, whoever is the mother and father, you like it, you don’t like it, they are your parents. It is not a consideration otherwise. This is one of the probably greatest weaknesses in parents not getting along, is they forget that for the child, it is not a matter of choice.The kid didn’t sit down and, you know, before they were conceived and Yamarāja brought them this piece of paper and gave all the different choices. “So, hey, you know, where do you want to take birth? What are you looking for?” and so on. “Okay, we’ve got just the perfect parents for you” and that. And then the kid thinks, “Wow, I guess I didn’t do so good. You know, I should have listened to my friend, he was looking at the other ones.” You know what I am saying? So in their mind, mother and father get along because they are the parents. So, one always has to be very careful. But that takes sense control, that takes training, it takes character. If you have something that you don’t agree, then you discuss it in another time. You have to make sure the other time, you know, your kids don’t have to hear it. Especially in modern houses. Old houses were a lot better, you don’t hear things from one room to the next because you have solid, you know, brick or stone walls. You know, these days it is like you sneeze in one part of the house, you hear it in the other. So, it is important.
Because otherwise, if they don’t get along, then the values that each one of them is saying, then there is, you know, so what is it? What is this basis? What is the foundation? Does that make sense? So it is a lot bigger, the responsibility of parenthood is much greater than is sometimes thought. But look at it from the romantic element, from the element of emotion and attachment, which is fine. But you have to understand that along with all that comes responsibility. You know, like it would be great and wonderful to have a house, but you have to pay the mortgage. Right? So the same thing, it would be great and wonderful to have a child, but it comes along with all the responsibilities that come with it. So, we are not saying, we are not taking these kind-of angles that anyone would be discouraged, we are taking these angles so that people will think, not just function only on the emotional platform. Because we are taking, as we have mentioned, we are taking it from the position that the emotional platform is fine, that is what drives you to work and function in the relationship. But it has to be that the intelligence is what you are using to see that it is effectively being applied.
Mātājī (5): Sometimes I have seen like very advanced, like senior devotees, and then their children don’t seem to really be interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So is that due to the mood during conception, or is that they didn’t train them properly, or what?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: See, it means the ability of the soul to become conscious of God – that, every soul has that ability. So that is something that does not depend upon conditioning. Does that make sense? But, social elements, social skills depend upon conditioning. It is two different things. You know, it is just like, someone can be very good in a particular skill, but not necessarily be good in something else. You know what I am saying? The guy is a fabulous musician, but no one likes to work with him because of the character. Do you understand? They are two different things. So, social skills, the understanding of how to deal in these environments is one thing, and then being able to… How you say? Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, that is another thing. The Vedic concept tries to bring them so that they are both kind-of in the same ballpark. Therefore, the Vedic culture and all the different aspects like that, that is why it is recommended. So, therefore, someone may be developed spiritually, but socially they are not. Does that make sense? Doesn’t make sense?
Mātājī (5): No…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Raising the child is the technique of being able to function within the physical, emotional, and intellectual platforms, and the skills that go along with it. You know what I am saying? Being God conscious is another aspect, that is directly dealing with the soul, not with conditioning, right? Does that make sense?
Mātājī (5): Yeah. I am just thinking that if, as you were saying, that when the parents are serious about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then they will pass it on to their child, they…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Means, they can pass it onto their child. If you are not serious, then you definitely don’t have a chance. But the point is, is just because you are, you still have to give it to the… It’s just like this, does the teacher know the subject matter?
Mātājī (5): Yeah.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Right? But the point is, is teaching it to the children is another effort. You were interested, you sat down, you studied, you learned. But then to get others to be interested to study and learn, that is another thing. You know what I am saying? Generally someone is a teacher, or good at something because that is just naturally what they like. But to get other people to like it, that is a whole another thing.
Prabhu (2): Is it like a good player may not be a good coach?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, that is there. And a good coach is not necessarily a good player. [Laughter] You know what I am saying? Yeah. Most coaches, let’s say an Olympic coach, how many Olympic coaches have ever won a medal?
Prabhu (2): That’s right.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: So that’s there.
Mātājī (5): So it is possible to have that attachment to your children, but then you are not a good parent? Or like…? You know…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: It like…
Mātājī (5): Bad skill?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: See, human is 400,000 out of 8,400,000. Of the 400,000… That means the 8 million are animals. Of the 400,000, very few are civilized. Does that make sense? Yeah. So that means that by the conditioning, it is not guaranteed that the conditioning is human. So, whatever variety of animal you are, that is generally the variety of animal that you get. Does that make sense? If the parents were crazy when they were young, it is natural that their kids are going to be crazy when they are young. And so then you can’t complain, “Why is that? How did this happen?” You know, therefore the apple and the tree.
Mātājī (5): So are you saying that they were crazy, the parents were crazy, and then they got really serious in their Kṛṣṇa consciousness later on?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, that is what I am saying. It doesn’t matter who you are in your background conditioning, if you are serious about spiritual life, you can develop that. But it is not… But to be able to apply that, extend that focus into the other aspects of life, then it is not an automatic. Some are good at doing it, some are not. You know what I am saying? So that is why previously the Vedic system sets a framework in which one can function, so that you know what is the standards, what is ideal. So that then at least one knows from somewhere to start from, and then one expands from there. Does that make sense?
Mātājī (5): And if one is not a good parent, is that something to do with their nature? Like they don’t have the nature to be a good parent, or is that something they just… they need to learn that before…?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: It is something to learn, it just means that they are not at this point.
Mātājī (5): Okay.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: You know, because that concept or that focus has never been given, you know. Now, why they are not a good parent, that you have to analyze. So what is good about a parent or not good, these are individual. Does that make sense? So why someone is not a good parent, because sometimes they don’t even understand it themselves. Because you have to know… Means, in other words, the point is, is that the parent is in the category of what we call guru or teacher. So teacher means you figure out what is the method to get the student to learn it. Generally the parent is, “I am the parent, they should just do it.” But how often does that work? Look at the history, wherever you have an authority that says, “Because I said you do it,” they don’t want to explain it, they don’t want to do anything like that, what is the results? If we look at history, one, Magna Carta. Two, French Revolution. Three, Russian Revolution. Four, every other revolution on the planet. You understand?
So there is this idea that emotionally they are my child. My Maserati, my Gucci shoes, my child. But the problem is, is the child talks and thinks, the car doesn’t. The shoes don’t. Right? You know, your car doesn’t… It will respond well or not well if you know how to drive or not drive. But it doesn’t affect the nature and character of the car. But a person, you don’t know what you are doing, it affects, it leaves a mark. Does that make sense? So in other words, you have things, you have to take it seriously. Yeah?
Mātājī (6): So, Mahārāja, it is about the relationship between the parents and the child?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: It is about the relationship. You have a better relationship, then you have influence. You don’t have a relationship, you don’t have influence.
Mātājī (6): So is that the primary?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: The primary is… Means, the ultimate primary is the relationship based on the principle of God consciousness. Because God consciousness is what your life is about, then the relationship will be based on that, that is what we are saying. But we are just looking at the element of parent and child, it is about the relationship of parent and child. You don’t have a relationship, you don’t have influence. You have relationship, you will have influence. It is automatic.
Mātājī (6): So you have to build that? We have to work?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, you have to work and build that. That is what we were meaning before of the effort.
Mātājī (6): Yes.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: The effort is building the relationship. That is where you have to see is that, “I do like this, the relationship develops. I do like that, it doesn’t develop.” Does that make sense? So that was our… Meaning is that, you know, like Mātājī asked the question about the effort. Is the effort important? Right? And the reason we are putting in the effort is because of the good will towards the child. But we have to see is what actually works. Like that. So if we put in effort one way, there is no response, so then we have to start adjusting until we find what does get the response.
Mātājī (6): Kind of respect, mutual respect.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, mutual respect. Because they are an individual, like that. You are the senior, they are the junior, so, of course, there is going to be the aspect of… How do you say it?
Mātājī (6): Effort.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, like that. But at the same time, it is people. You know what I am saying? You have to balance those two. Because the thing is, is you have, the parental rasa is, you have senior and junior, but there is the intimacy. You know, master-servant is there, but it doesn’t have that intimacy, it is more formal. So this has the intimacy. It is senior and junior, but it is more close. Does that make sense? Like that. So there is a lot of… Yes. Yeah. So if you… Means, it’s like this, if you have respect for them…Respect doesn’t mean the external element, the respect means them as an individual. So, therefore, as an individual, if they understand what you are talking about, you keep cultivating in that way. If they don’t understand what you are talking about, you have to keep trying different angles until you find one that does work. Does that make sense? And so, basically, it’s, you keep… Yeah. You just keep talking until they are actually paying attention. But, just because you have done that today, doesn’t mean now it is done and it will last for a lifetime. No, you are going to next time have to do it again, and again, and again. And after years, then it will start to be, you know, standard.
Mātājī (6): It develops.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: It develops, yes. But it takes years. Yes?
Mātājī (7): Mahārāja, I am assuming, though, that the soul of the child that is in relationship with you, or the purpose of them being in relationship with you, being your child, is that the way in which you would learn to teach them is actually assisting you in some way.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes.
Mātājī (7): So, is that…?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: It is both. It is said that, means, that you hear something, you retain 30%. You hear and see it, you retain 50%. You hear, see, and write it, 70%. You teach it, 90%. So that is the whole thing, is that whatever it is that you value, then trying to understand it yourself, practice it yourself, you get an effect. But when you are teaching someone else, and you have to convince them of it, you actually learn more. So that is the position.
Mātājī (7): And you are teaching someone who has an intimate connection with you.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes.
Mātājī (7): And in some way is part of you.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, yes.
Mātājī (7): So it is even more, it is closer.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, it has the effect, but you have to… That is what I was saying, there has to be that element of respect, that cooperation. It is not about just, “I said.” What was it? “Do what I say, don’t do what I do,” doesn’t really work very good. Unless what they are saying is of great value, but generally that is not across the board. There may be one or two points where it makes sense what they say, even though they don’t do it. But generally that is something they would want to do, but they haven’t been able to do it. So they have tried it with so many angles, so they are very knowledgeable in that area. So when they tell you about it, it has great weight, even though they can’t do it themselves. But generally that is more rare. But it is… Yeah.
So, in other words, it has, because you are dealing in a relationship, it has all the complications of that. So when we are going into this, it’s that it is a very big area. So then we are just, like in this, the form we are using, we are starting somewhere with the idea, we will generate thought, and from that will come up questions, and then from that we will get into all the various aspects. Because otherwise, theoretically, I can go through so many things, whether that will have meaning or value. So it is the start in that area to generate something, so then we ask in connection with our situation, then from that we start to learn. Because the whole point is that technically, if technically… One, the natural position is, any adult can learn how to be a parent because that is the natural thing. Manu says, boys are born to become fathers, girls are born to become mothers. So it is the natural thing to do. But one has to be aware of it, that is why we were saying in the beginning: If you are aware of what you are doing and why you are doing it, then you can make your child aware. If you are not aware, the child won’t be aware. Because it is kind-of like, you know, “Why should I do this?” And I remember the conversation of “Why?” And then the next is, you know, “Because why?” You know, “Why, but?” You just, you want to keep going. So the whole point is, is the parent has to be able to put in that effort to explain. Generally it is, well, the parent doesn’t want to explain, so it is going outside of what is comfortable to them. But that is the point, is they learn as a… Teaching your child means you learn also. So, you develop as an individual by developing them as an individual. Because being an individual, they will have perspectives that we may not have thought about or we haven’t thought about for a long time. You know, like that. So, they bring these things up. So then it is our business to see that that is being cultivated. Because if we are able to answer their questions, it is getting, you know, another aspect, another… How do you say? Topic. Is that if we are able to answer all their questions when they ask them, they will maintain that inquisitiveness. Right? But if they come up with the questions and mommy is busy now or daddy is busy now, then, you know, we’ll ask later, but then they lose. They learn that asking questions is not something that anybody likes. Because if your parents don’t like it, and they are close to you, why would anybody else want to answer your question? Right? And when you go to school, you know, I mean, I don’t want to sound biased here, but teachers don’t answer your questions either, that is why there is homework. Because the parent has to answer it. And then the problem is the parents already proved them that they don’t want to answer it. Therefore, how many kids are getting the four-point average from parents that do answer the questions? Like that. And your average kid asking questions, getting answers, it is something no one does, no one likes to do, so then you move on to something else that is more satisfying than this intellectual stuff. You get into a video game or something, al least there you get some results, you push the button, the guy’s head comes off. It is pretty correct, you know, like that, but…
So, therefore, it is there. And so, if you don’t know, say, “I don’t know, but I’ll find out,” and then find out, and then get back to them. So it’s not that “Oh, they stopped asking, finally…” No, it is a matter of get back. Or, if really you can’t answer at that time, then say “We will discuss it later.” Then later you go back and approach and say, “Now, okay, we can discuss it.” Then the child will, then they will both maintain the inquisitiveness and be able to understand this time, place, and circumstance.
Mātājī (7): You have to make the time.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: You have to make the time. The point is, if you can’t make the time for your kid, then what’s the point?
Mātājī (7): Well, they won’t make time for anyone else.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah. No, that is why there is texting. [Laughter] Yeah, you know, SMSs are for, you know, not paying attention to parents because they don’t give you time, and you are simply reciprocating, you know, like that. It is just, that is what we are saying, if the parents can understand the principle of companionship, then the children learn that, and they are happy, they are comfortable being with the parents. And, you know, it should be that you can, you don’t have to have something to do to have a relationship. You don’t have to have a third party to… You know what I am saying? Nowadays, everything is about third party, you know. You want to fire your people, you get a third party to do it for you. You don’t tell them yourself, you know. So, that’s the whole thing, it is all about third party, therefore, you know… How you say?
Mātājī (7): Television.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, television and stuff like that. Well, I guess what I was just saying before is mother, father, and guru, right, teachers. So, you know, it is just, yeah, cyclopic guru here. Yeah, so then… That relationship generally lasts a lifetime, doesn’t it?
Prabhu (3): What happens when karma comes into play? Because I have seen families where the child is totally opposite to the parents, and mind was saying they are there for a reason to teach one another.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, that is there. But the point is, is still the principle is, if they are different, but that is your child, that is who you have to learn to deal with.
Prabhu (3): Yeah…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: The point is, is it is not necessarily that everything is smooth. That is why if the child is very different, much of the time, it may be the mentality of the parents are different, or the mentality of the parents at the time of conception was very different. That is why also at the time of conception, it should be clear what kind of, what is the nature of the child you are looking for. If both parents are thinking the same thing, you get a common child, but if each one is thinking something different, then they come out a bit weird. [Laughter] The kid doesn’t know who they are. You know, they have that opposing nature. So that is the whole point, is that the modern is, “No, it is just about the feeling, and it is just like that,” but the point is, is yes, the feeling is there, that is the motive, as we said, that is the motive for being involved, but intelligence must be used. So therefore, the Āyurveda recommends that there is, you know, well before one actually makes the endeavor for the child, is that there is discussions of what are the qualities you are looking for in the child. Because by that, also that discussion, the parents know themselves more clearly what the other is thinking, like that. And so then all these other elements will come up. You know what I am saying? Because that is the point, it is about what you are looking for. If you have that common point you are looking for, then… Does that make sense? I am talking about character, not, you know, blue eyes, blonde hair, six foot two and…
Prabhu (3): Does that just work on the level of intention, basically, you know, putting that energy out?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: No, it is on consciousness. Like that, you attract a living entity according to your consciousness. So, consciousness is, the better the consciousness, the better the consciousness of the living entity you attract.
Prabhu (3): Is that always the case, or sometimes?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: That is always the case.
Prabhu (3): Okay.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: That is just the way it works. You know, it is just like the distance you drive your car is by the volume of petrol in the tank. So, do we say, “Well, is that always the case?” You understand? It works like that.
Prabhu (3): [Laughter] If it is there, so [Indistinct]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, no, let’s say, you may get very far there, but then you have to look at the long picture and balance it, then getting back up the hill, then that would really be bad. The bottom of the hill with no petrol, and the petrol is at the top of the hill, that would be rough.
Mātājī (8): [Indistinct] … subconsciousness, doesn’t the child choose the parents?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: No, it is a matter of attracting. The point is, is that the consciousness at the time of conception is what attracts the soul that has similar consciousness. But the point is, is that aspect of the similar consciousness, that is part, you know, maybe a major part of the nature, but it is not everything, that’s what we were saying, because they are a different individual. Just like the consciousness, the parents may have other elements other than that consciousness, but if you know what you are looking for, then the consciousness is good. So then you get the good aspect. Consciousness is not good, you don’t necessarily get it great.
Mātājī (8): Because you mentioned something before, that from the [Indistinct] …that the consciousness of parents… [Indistinct]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes.
Mātājī (8): Is that always…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: No, but this is the modes of nature arrange this.
Mātājī (8): Sorry?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: The modes of nature arrange. So, that means, the living entities, by the consciousness of the living entities, then the material nature pairs them off with parents who have that common aspect. But as pointed out, it is not necessarily all the same. And sometimes nature is different, or consciousness is different, so you get a different child. Generally, in a run of children, it is the second one that is different. All the other ones will be the same, the second one will be different. Like that.
Prabhu (4): It is like in that painting. [Laughter]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes. Or it is like that on performances. Opening night is great, there is the excitement. Third night is great, because you know what you are doing. Second night, don’t bother buying tickets. [Laughter] You know, yeah. Like that. So, generally you’ll see the second one is very different, sometimes opposite of all the others.
Mātājī (8): When you say different, do you mean in a negative way?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: No, no, no, I just mean different.
Prabhu (4): So, if your parents are messed up, that means you were some kind of a… [Indistinct]
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes. Yes. [Laughter] But the point is, is that is the advantage of the… How you say? Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the higher level, and the Vedic culture on the material level, is then there are standards and ways to do so. If the parents can give that to you, that is the natural, easiest way to gain all this. In other words, the first five years you are spending with the parents, it is exclusively with the parents. So, at that time the child picks up the nature, you know, the view and all. They are not necessarily conscious of it, but it is kind-of like the inherent nature. Then, that unfolds the rest of their life. So, the teacher can bring that out. So, if the parents put in the time and energy for them, that is the time. But sometimes we see nowadays, parents don’t put in the time. And then, as the kid grows up, then they haven’t put in the time, so there is no basis. Then they see that the kid is going to go away soon, so then they want to put in the time, but it is already too late. The kid has already moved on, because when they needed the energy, they didn’t get it. So, they work out how to function other than that. As we mentioned, that is what, in their mind, friends are for. So, you have that whole element, is that that is the time. So, it is always a problem if you are always doing something else at that time. That is the time to put in the maximum effort. So, someone should always be with the kid. You know, maybe both parents can’t be there, but somebody has to be there. This idea where the kid is just on their own and nobody is there, you know, these… What do you call it? Techniques of letting the kid cry himself to sleep, that is for people, basically, who are hard-hearted. In other words, it is about me, so it is like, you know, why can’t the kid figure that out? But the point is, you put in the energy, they become strong, it is like a battery. How much you charge it is how much it puts out. You put in nothing, they put out nothing. You know, you don’t take care, they won’t take care of others, like that. So that is the other thing, is you put in that energy and then the response is there. So, it works.
Mātājī (7): Mahārāja, in the Vedic system what age defines the end of childhood?
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Sixteen, they are adult because, by mentality. It is not necessarily that they are very mature, that depends upon their training and association. Sixteen, they think like an adult. A sixteen-year-old looks at adults as, up to thirty, as equals. Means, the next age group is thirty and above. So, in other words, the youth, sixteen to twenty-nine, that they see as one group. You may be a little bit older in it, but you are basically the same. Like that. Fifteen, then they are the biggest of the kids, they are at the top of the pile. They look down at the kids, so they are the biggest. But when they turn sixteen, it turns and they look at the adults. Like that. You know, so that is how it functions.
So, as I said, they are supposed to be treated as a child up to sixteen. When they are sixteen, then you treat them as a friend. It doesn’t mean, you know, as an equal friend, but friend. You know, just like you have friends that are senior to you, friends that are equal, friends that are junior. So, it is like that. Right? So, the mentality is not, you know, friends is not “because I said you have to do it.”
Mātājī (7): Yeah.
HH BVPS Mahārāja: Like that.
Mātājī (7): So, it is quite difficult to treat them in a consciousness of being children when they are between twelve and sixteen, depending on how they are being… what their environment is…
HH BVPS Mahārāja: No, their environment is still, they still think in that way. I mean, now they use the term “adolescent” because it is a newer concept. Just because of the, you know, the noticing of the thick skin that they have. But that is in the Vedic context… Means, in other words, all these different natures of the ages are hardwired. People can say what they like and what they want, come up with a million theories, but it doesn’t matter. It’s that, these are hardwired, this is just the way the nature is.
So, the point is that twelve versus sixteen, that area, that is when they are best at learning skills. So, now, if I want to become good at a skill, I can’t let my false ego get in the way. So, in that way, they don’t, when it comes to skill, they have no false ego. They will try something that doesn’t work, they will keep trying it from so many different angles, they will just keep doing it until it works. A kid, you know, they will try it, it doesn’t work and it is no fun, so, they won’t continue. The adult, they try and it doesn’t work, then because their ego is bothered they are not going to try again. You know what I am saying? You know, learning a language, that, the kids will speak, even though what they are grammatically and the words they are using are all wrong, but they will keep doing it until it gets right. The adult will say it and it is wrong, then they will get shy and they will not say anything.
So, that is what that age is for. So, you have to see is that skills and all that are happening. They want to know, in other words, up to that time, they will do whatever they are supposed to do just because it is there. From that age, they want to know why. They don’t see why. So, that means if that element of answering, explaining is there, cultivated, then you just keep doing that then until… And so they understand what is the value. And it may take weeks, months, you know, so much time every day. I remember one kid came to the school, and he did not see what was any value in him doing service of cleaning the grounds. Why did he have to sweep the grounds? And so, it was 45 minutes a day for six weeks explaining it. And after six weeks, he was totally convinced and you never had to say a thing again. He understood it. But that’s what we are meaning: that is teaching. This idea, “I say it once, they do it,” where does that happen? You know what I am saying? They try to pull it off in the movie or something, but it is not a reality. So, depending on the kid, then it may not take six weeks, other kids generally tend to understand. I am just giving that because that was the most extreme.
Really? It is 9 o’clock? Wow. [Laughter] That is impressive. I would have guessed it is maybe 10 minutes after 8. [Laughter] Wow. I guess we will end here. So, if there is any questions and all that, then be, you know, tomorrow we can start with these things. Jaya!
Śrīla Prabhupāda kī jaya! Samavetā bhakta vṛnda kī jaya! Jaya Nitāi-Gaura premānande Hari Hari bol!
[Conchshell blown]
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