Science of Relationships Seminar, Part 1

Seminar on the Science of Relationships, Part 1, given in Rīga, Lavia

TRANSCRIPTION

His Holiness Bhaktividyā Pūrṇa Svāmī Mahārāja: So in the science of relationship, then we have to understand what is the origin of relationship. Basically the origin of everything then will be God. And so then God and His creation. That’s, that’s the principle of relationship. If we… yes. So that means any relationship that there is will go back to this principle. Because the Supreme Lord, then He is interacting with everything else. He has expanded into everything. It’s His potency that makes everything work. So if this is understood, then we can see how to make a relationship function. [Amused by translator’s voice] I was just catching the quality of the radio announcing voice. You know, that little drop down into the… which is good [laughing].

So, then understanding this, then whatever relationships there are, in whatever situation, they all function on the same principles. And it doesn’t matter what it is, whether it’s with another living entity or with an inanimate object, the principle is the same. So if you can understand one relationship, you can transfer this understanding to any other. So technically no one should have any problems with relationships. But problems come because we actually don’t understand or don’t want to understand. So if we can somehow or another appreciate how relationship, the concept of that, comes from the Lord, and that the whole creation works on His concept, then things can work nicely.

We can’t make up our own idea. Just like the small children, they make up their own ideas. “I’ll flap my arms and I’ll fly.” You know, they come up with all kinds of ideas like this – what we call them children. Because it doesn’t work. And adults pride themselves that they deal with the realistic world that works. But then the problem comes is that if it’s not working, then that means something has to be considered. So maybe adults are mature in their needs and desires, but not necessarily mature in their methods. So to avoid this, then the principle is given that the universe works on basic laws. And these laws, they are not something you can change. These laws are fixed. And one can’t go around them. So therefore, there are laws that govern relationship.

So in dealing with relationship, then you’ll have basically three main factors:

  1. What is the relationship?
  2. What activities you can perform in that relationship? And,
  3. What results you will get from acting in that relationship?

It’s that simple. In other words, what’s there, working with it, result. Right? Then there is of course details in each of the three. Within the first, then that is your field of activities. Means, what are all the elements that are there? You have yourself, let’s say you have your car, you have the road, you have all your little signs, you have other cars, you have people walking down the street. Right? Police are there in their cars. So understanding all of that, then one can perform the activity of driving. Knowing the field, the first part. Then you can do the second part, driving. And then third, you get a result. You get from point A to point B. Right? Does it make sense?

So the same way is, if it is person, then there is you, there is the other person, there is the environment in which the interaction can take place. Then activity can be performed – interaction. Then there will be a result. Particular experience or whatever may come. Right? You punch the guy in the nose, then the result is a black eye. Plus, then you always have to look over your shoulder every time you go around the corner. So – relationship, process, result. Right? Very simple.

The problem is, is that we want to make up our own idea of what is the relationship, what process we can use, and therefore what result we will get. Right? Does that make sense? So basically that is what is going on in the world. We think that we will do a certain activity, we will get a certain result, but we don’t get that result. So that means we are not actually understanding the science. We don’t know the field. We don’t know from the field, therefore, what results you can get. And for that result, therefore, what activity is to be performed.

So, one is unable to, while performing the activity, be aware of the field and be gauging if it’s moving towards the proper result. So that means then there would be the importance of being conscious. If you are conscious, then you can perform an activity. But that consciousness has to be based on what’s going on right now. Means the activity has to be in the present. Because the present is where the activity is happening. Right? If you are thinking about the past or thinking about the future, you won’t be able to perform the activity in the present. Doesn’t mean that you don’t take… How you say? Experience from the past or know where you are going, but unless the focus is in the present, it won’t work. What happened in the relationship is in the past. What you would like to happen is in the future. But what is actually happening, that is in the present. So – this is important. Most people, when they are dealing in a relationship, aren’t dealing in the present.

So someone is driving their car. They are talking to their friend. They get around town, they don’t have any accidents, at least generally. But are they known as a really good driver? When you think of good drivers, do you think of this person? Not necessarily. Why? Because when they are driving, their main focus isn’t actually on the driving in the present. Maybe they’re a good conversationalist. Right? Because they are talking nicely and everything like that. But driving is not what they are known for. They may not be a bad driver. But they are not known as a good driver. A good driver means then the main focus in the present is on the driving. Does that make sense? So anybody who is expert in something, that is because they are focused on what is happening in the present. And someone who is not so expert means they are not focused. They are thinking of other things.

So, if you want a relationship to work, you have to deal with what is happening right now. Not what you think should be happening now, but what is happening now. Because if you are unaware what is happening now, how will you see if it is going towards the result you want? Means an activity, action, gives results. No result comes from no action. You perform action, then the result comes. So, if you are not aware of the action, how will you know if it is going to get you the result you want? So then this means that if one is going to be engaged in a proper relationship, that means you have to be aware of those involved in the relationship, who you are, who they are, and be aware of the activities of interaction, and then only results you are looking for will be gained. So then, for devotees then, because we can see from this is that if you understand the science, then anyone can make any relationship function.

Now, the question is in, in understanding this science, do you want it to be connected to God or not? Because the action – it doesn’t change. Results don’t change. It’s a matter of what kind of consciousness you have, then that gets you your particular effect. In other words, you take some potatoes. You cut them up, you put them in the pot. You put it on the fire. You push it around for a while. And it’s cooked. Right? So now, if you’re conscious of God in that process or not, the potatoes are still going to come out the same. But it’s a matter of whether you are going to advance in devotional service or not. Now, being conscious of the potatoes will make a difference on whether your potatoes come out cooked properly or not. But God consciousness is something else. In other words, the cooking of the potatoes is a medium through which you could be conscious of God or not.

So one could ask, how does this dual relationship function at one time? Because God is everything. So being everything, that means, one, for anything to function, you are conscious of God in His manifestations in this world. So you are conscious of God in His manifestation as potatoes, as a process of cooking, as result of cooked food. But then there is the element, are we conscious of that person who is the origin of all these manifestations? Right? You understand? So there is God as His expansion as His energies, then there is God Himself as the original person. Right? Just like, let’s say, you are using your friend’s car. That is his energy. And so you can be aware of the car and drive the car properly. But at the same time, while you are driving the car properly, being conscious of that functioning, you can be conscious of the person whose car it actually is. You understand? So that means, for the same endeavor, you can get two results rather than one. Most people don’t get either. Relationships don’t work and they are not God conscious. Here, relationships work and one’s God conscious. You understand? So now, if you are performing that activity to please God, then we can see, is that these two are combined, so the quality of the endeavor will be even more, will be greater. [aside:] One thing I’ve seen, that there may be a problem in seating. Seating here.

Translator: Yes?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Because people are coming, but they’re not…

Translator: What can we do?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: I don’t know, maybe [inviting devotees:] everyone can move forward just a touch? [aside:] That will create more space at the back, or in the middle, or somewhere. [break]

So since everything is coming from God, and everything is working by His laws, then it’s very natural that one will be able to perform, be conscious of both of these levels of relationship at once. Right? So it means it’s coming from God, means whatever you are dealing with is His potency. And He, as a person, has written all these rules. But there is a purpose behind the various rules. Why are things the way they are? So that means they are that way because that is what actually pleases the Lord. So you can perform an activity, and that activity will get you a particular result. But that result, then how is that actually pleasing to the person who created this whole process? Right? Yes? No? Okay. Then, are there any questions on this up to now? No? Okay.

So now in applying this… So let us say you have a parent and child. So now if the parent wants to deal with the child properly, then they must be aware of who they are and who the child is. Right? Means the child is untrained. The parent is supposed to be trained. So that means the child may be self-centered, may be impatient, lack humility – all these things. But the parent is supposed to be trained, so they are supposed to have that element of selflessness and being able to work for others; they are not lazy, they are sensitive. So then when the parent is dealing with the child, if the parent is aware of what is actually happening right now, then they can act in such a way to get it to a situation what they would like it to be. But if they don’t know who they are, then how are they going to make it work? If the parent thinks it’s all about themselves and not about the child, then how is it going to function? Because then by definition, it is wrong. The adult is supposed to be trained. If they don’t know what results you can get from the interaction of the parent and child, then they will expect something that doesn’t actually exist. And so, therefore, their activity will not actually get any good result. Being unaware of who they are and the child, being in illusion about what results you can get, no matter what activity they perform, they will not be satisfied. Does that make sense? So one has to be able to, one must be aware of what one is dealing with. You should know, you know the child, you know, has basic needs. It’s not that, you know, the five-year-old is worried about some equation in quantum or something. They, you know, they want something to eat, or they’re sick, or they want to play with friends or… Right? So therefore, if they’re restless or not satisfied, then you don’t have to worry, is that, “Oh, because I didn’t get him that Maserati for his birthday. You know, it’s because he’s hungry, or he’s been inside too long, or something is wrong.

So yeah. So this principle of then being conscious of who they are, what actually is there and then being aware of where they are at right now, not where you would like them to be. The kid is restless. You know, they are making trouble. You would like them to be peaceful. Right? But, the point is, is they are not. Just because you think they should be, that doesn’t mean that that’s reality. So then being peaceful is what you would like them to be. So that’s a result. So you are only going to get that result by an activity. And that activity has to be based or connected to what is the situation with the child at present. Right? And by performing the activity, if it is moving you towards the result, then you know it is going correct. If it is not moving you towards the result, means it is the wrong activity. So, if the child is yelling and screaming and you just tell them to shut up and they don’t, means your activity wasn’t correct. In other words, they are yelling… why are they yelling and screaming? So you have to deal with the yelling and screaming. That’s where you have to start. Most people think that, “If I feel it, it’s reality.” But, what you feel is simply an inspiration to get you involved in the activity. Your feeling is not the result. You feel they should be quiet, but that doesn’t make them quiet. You have to act in such a way to make them quiet. But your inspiration to make them quiet is your desire that they will be quiet. Right? Does that make sense?

So having feelings, being attached – that’s not enough. That may be what is your… How you say? Your motivation, your inspiration, but it’s not the action that gets result. Most make the mistake that, “I’m attached to my child – therefore that’s the perfection.” No, because you’re attached, you’re inspired to interact with the child, it’s the interaction that’s going to get you the result. Right? So they feel it should work, but it’s not working. So they’re not using their intelligence to see what’s happening in the present. What is the result of actions that I perform? Does it give me the result I’m looking for? Right? Does this make sense?

Now, let us step back a little bit. That same mother, who can’t figure out what is going on, she can’t get the kid to do what she wants. But, that same mom, if there is something she wants, and she deals with someone else and goes out on the street or whatever she does, she gets what she wants. Why? Right? Attachment’s there, she has her motivation, she knows what she wants, she knows who she is, what is the environment. And, as she performs the activities, she is aware of how it is going, because she wants that result. If it is going towards the result she wants, she continues. If it is not, she will change the method. So why is it working? Because she is conscious of all the elements. Right? She knows the field. She knows what she wants. And, she is conscious of whether her actions are moving towards the result. So why doesn’t it work when you apply to the child? Because you are only conscious of yourself, while dealing with the other person, then you have to be conscious of them. The point is, what does the child want? So you have to be conscious of the child, to actually get the child, you know, to make them happy. When the child is happy, they don’t make trouble. Of course, unless making trouble is what makes them happy. Then you have a problem.

We understand is that when one is conscious of the other person, that’s what’s going to get your result. Okay. So now, what makes it work so much easier with others, but less with your child? Because the other people you work with, there is not so much attachment. So therefore, you use your intelligence. You are not getting the result, you find another way until you get your result. You are conscious of yourself, and you are conscious of the others, because you are not attached to them. And you are conscious of yourself, because you are attached to yourself. But now, with the child, you are attached to the child, so you think how you think they are. But they are an individual, they are a separate person. So because of our attachment, they think they should deal in this way, but they are not.

So the problem is, is we are not actually conscious of what they are doing, and how your process is working. So it’s like what we said previously, was we think it should go that way, so we think it should happen, but it doesn’t. It happens by what actually is there and what action you perform. So in other words, the attachment is your inspiration to be involved in the relationship, but it doesn’t necessitate good results. Good results comes from intelligence and action, not by desire or need. Your attachment, that is your motive to be involved, it’s not what causes the result. Does it make sense? Right?

So if you think about it, then you can see, why in situations you are not really attached to you can do so well, but situations that you are attached to, you may not do so well. Maybe situations you are absolutely not attached to, you don’t do well, because you don’t have any motive to do them well. So the point it comes down to is that you have the interest to be involved, but to actually make it work, you have to look at it from a position of detachment. Does it make sense?

It means sometimes it’s seen that if one is too close to the action, you know, by need or attachment, one won’t do it so well. The emotions will get in the way, rather than be an assistance. So this is what is misunderstood much in the world. We think if I’m attached, that will give the best result. But it’s not. And it’s not that just purely having knowledge will also give the best result. Because where is the motive to be involved? So you have to find a situation in which one is motivated to be involved. At the same time, one can use one’s intelligence. Right. Does this make sense? So that’s what the Vedic culture is describing. How to cultivate both of these seeming contradictions at once.

So the Vedic culture has to then… yeah. So now in this, then you basically have two ends of the spectrum. The lowest aspect of the spectrum is you have the knowledge to act and you are attached to the results for yourself. Right? But you are able to balance that working in knowledge and the attachment, so the attachment doesn’t get in the way, or the detachment doesn’t, you don’t lose your inspiration to act. Then the next better than that would be is that the same thing: you are attached to result, you know that, you know the, you know… How you say? You have the proper understanding, you have the proper skill. You are attached to the result, but not for yourself, but for someone else. Most people will say that’s better. Right? But the best is that you know they have the knowledge, you have the skill, you can perform the activity, but your motive is to please God.

So you’re attached to getting a good result for the Lord. So therefore you are going to use your intelligence to see that the activity is going correct, so that you get a good result, because the result is for the Lord. So your motivation for getting a good result is going to be attachment to somebody. So is that someone yourself, that someone is someone else, or that someone is God? Right? So that is why you will be involved. Māyāvādīs don’t do anything, because they are not attached to pleasing anybody. So they don’t work. Therefore, they get no results.

So the devotee then is able to function in the mechanics of relationship, because of their need for pleasing someone in relationship. Right? So getting result in the relationship means you have to have the knowledge and skill. And that skill doesn’t change, whether it is for yourself, for others, or for God. So therefore, what you can change is your motive. Right? Your motive, is it for yourself, is it for others, is it for the Lord? But the science, that doesn’t change. That is the laws of God. So you are having to cultivate God consciousness. And you should know what you are dealing with. Make sense? So it’s not… So we sometimes will think that because we have motive, therefore we are expert. Right? That make sense? But it’s not. They’re two different things. Any questions on this? Is Mr. Kick-Batt-Butt over there wants to say something?

Prabhu (1): [speaking in Latvian]

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Not wanting to make anyone feel bad, but the basic principles: if you can’t say what you want to say in one sentence, you don’t actually know what you want to say. You’re working it out as you’re talking. Then you’re wasting everyone’s time. Right? So what is the question?

Prabhu (1): How can we serve other devotees not knowing how to serve them?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Aha! Learn. You know? In other words, we should learn how do we serve, what is service? So, you know, in… We can be aware of… what would be the essential thing? Let us say you’re serving prasāda. Let us say technically we don’t know anything about serving prasāda.

Translator: Serving meaning offering or serving when we, serving…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Serving means distributing, yeah.

Translator: Distributing, yeah.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Right? We don’t know, we are new. Okay? So but if you think about it, as we were saying, what is… Means you have… Okay. You have yourself who is serving. You have someone else who is eating. You have the food, right, the prasādam. What’s the goal? So the idea is people eat because they want to become satisfied, right? They eat enough food that they don’t feel hungry anymore. And to be comfortable eating, you know, there should be a comfortable environment. So then, using your intelligence, then you would think, how am I supposed to get the food onto their plate, and in such a way that they are comfortable? Right? Does that make sense? So then you think, okay, I have to get the food and they are going to eat off of their plate.

Translator: And they are going to…?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Eat, they will eat from their plate. Right? Otherwise, you know, you could use a funnel or something.

Translator: I didn’t get…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: You know what a funnel is? You don’t have funnels here? No funnel? Funnel. It’s wide at the top and it goes down and then it has a small mouth. Like you want to pour some liquid into a small hole. Yeah. So you could use a funnel also. Put a funnel in their mouth, pour it here…

Devotees: [laughing]

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Could work. Okay. So then you start. You think, okay, I have to get the food onto their plate so they can eat. So I come with the bucket. Right? Holding the handle, I grab the bottom and I start to shake the bucket.

Devotees: [laughing]

HH BVPS Mahārāja: But because I am sensitive to the situation, I notice the look on their face is not very comfortable. So then I think, “Okay, maybe we should serve with something a little bit,” you know, “that holds less volume in it.” Right? Okay. So now I pick up a teaspoon. And I pick some food up. And they kind of look at me like, “What’s that?” So then I get a bigger spoon. Right? Does that make sense? So even if I don’t know anything, if I use my intelligence and I am sensitive to the situation and I know what the goal is, know what I am dealing with, it will work. Does that make sense? I will figure it out because I know I am trying to satisfy the devotees by them getting food properly and being able to eat.

But if my perspective is, “Well, the temple commander told me to serve prasāda, so therefore the goal is to get the prasāda distributed as quickly as possible so I can sit down and eat,” then they may never actually learn to serve. Do you understand? Because the goal is not to please the devotees. The goal is to sit down and eat. So because of that, their whole understanding of the field is wrong. Their understanding of the relationship is wrong. Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So you can start from there and get anything done. You know, it will get done. But by learning, by knowledge, then you can do it, you know, very nicely. In other words, one should educate oneself. Is that okay? Okay. Yes.

Prabhu (2): No, the the… It is very interesting that if your object of service is God, normally He does not speak to people, and does not even change His facial expression. So…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Who said He doesn’t change His facial…? Like last time you were dealing with God, He didn’t change His facial expression.

Prabhu (2): He, I mean… To get feedback from God, you must be extremely intelligent, if you want to learn intelligence [indistinct].

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Aha! So then that means you would be the most qualified person in the room to be able to interact with God.

Prabhu (2): Yes, that is not easy.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Ah?

Prabhu (2): My proposition is that it is not easy at all. It’s very difficult.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: It’s not…

Prabhu (2): You must be extremely intelligent.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: That’s what I’m saying.

Prabhu (2): [indistinct]

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So, so you should have no problem. [break] You are intelligent, right? So you should have no problem. The point is, is God gives direction in the scriptures. There is guru, sādhu and śāstra. That’s how you know what God wants.

Translator: May I translate?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes. [break] But what is… To please God doesn’t mean that you are, did specifically dealing directly with Him. You are dealing with His creation. In other words, you are cutting potatoes for God – it is not that you take the knife and you put it above the potato, then you look and you see if He is smiling or if He is [indistinct], like that and then you, you cut it and then you look again and then you see that... Like that – no. You are… the point is, is the goal of your work is to please God, but the working that you are doing, you are doing with His energies. In other words, we deal with energies. The energies deal with God. We are jīvas. We are expansion of energy. The energy expands from God. So there is God, then the energy, then us. So that means then we if we are aware of, you know, in working with the energy, but with what is the mood of God, then we will be successful. Because the energy is aware of the mood of God so we can learn from the energy what’s the mood. Yeah?

Prabhu (2): Well, that requires lot of clarification.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: A lot of clarification? Yes, that’s why there’s guru, sādhu and śāstra. So nothing’s left to speculation. No?

Prabhu (2): Well, but do you agree that it is not straightforward and not easy?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: No one said it is easy. You are the size of one ten-thousandth the tip of a hair. So if you think about it, to scratch your head is not easy. Right? It has to be sanctioned by the Supersoul, the modes of nature will then carry it out, through the airs in the body –will push on the nerves, the fire that will push on the muscles, the muscles will then move the arm and then your head will get scratched. Okay? So no one said anything is easy, but it doesn’t mean it can’t be done. Okay? Okay. Something else? Yes.

Prabhu (3): [indistinct] main good qualities [indistinct] become good husband [indistinct].

HH BVPS Mahārāja: What quality is necessary to become a good husband or a good father? Means one or the other, not both?

Prabhu (3): Both.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Both. Okay, okay. The point is, is then following what we have been discussing means then to be a good husband, then you have to know what a man is and what a woman is, what is the nature of the interaction, what results you can get from that interaction. Right? Does that make sense? So as a parent, then you have to know what is adults, you know, or the parent, or what is the child. Same process, different medium. In other words, in all, both cases one has to know the field and then perform activities being aware of their effect on the other person. In other words, if you’re concentrating on… Okay. You know what a woman is, then there’s a wife is there, you are interacting, so you are aware of… How you say? It is progression towards a result. You have to be, “Who should that result be for?” So it means as a husband, then you should be trying to see that the wife is happy. So your interactions with the wife would be such that you see that whatever position she is in, that it is progressing towards her being happy. If your action is causing a result of her yelling and screaming, then you know you need to change, you know, how you are acting. No? Right. So the same way in dealing with the child. Yeah? Okay. Something else? Yes.

Mataji (1): How to avoid situation when we deal seemingly for others, but result is that finally one finds that actually he needs that result more than that other person. How to avoid that?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: See, as long as the other person is getting what they, they need in the relationship, then it’s not a problem for the relationship. It will only be a problem for your own personal development. So when you see that your motive is for yourself, if it’s within the definition of the relationship proper, one should not stop acting because you think I’m selfish. Because then the relationship stops. As we mentioned, there is the mechanics of the relationship, then there is the consciousness. So the relationship should continue. Now we focus on, well… Okay. We act in this way, we are going to get what we want. So why focus on ourselves? Why not focus on the other person? You focus on the other person, then the quality of the relationship will improve, along with the quality of your consciousness. That make sense? Yeah.

Mataji (1): You continue doing for the other person, but there is a doubt, it seems that probably I am doing it for myself more.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: That may be, but the point is the other person is getting the benefit. So you try to reduce the focus on yourself in the interaction, and focus it more on the other person. But ultimately, even [if] it is nicely done for the other person, is that actually… How you say? What is pleasing to the Lord? So one should be conscious of that. Because God having expanded as everything, then if He is pleased, everything is pleased. So it doesn’t change the… How you say? The action itself. It may improve the quality of the action, but it doesn’t change the action.

Just like the mother may be interested in the child. But then she sees that, well, actually it’s all about herself, because she wants to be happy by the interaction with the child. Okay, but even though that may not be such a good way of looking at it, still the relationship of the child to the mother remains the same. So the child is still looking to the mother for that interaction. So one tries to improve the quality of that by seeing, is the child actually happy, or I am only going up to the point where I’m happy and stopping? Because then as a mother, when the child’s happy, that’s when they should be happy. So that means one has to interact with the child till they are satisfied, then one will be happy. Rather than “I am interacting with the child because I want that satisfaction, so if they don’t respond properly I get angry.” But if it’s a matter of the child’s satisfaction, then it’s a matter “I deal with the child until the child is satisfied, then when they are happy I will naturally be happy.”

But then, the point is is, what actually makes the child a child? Midgets are this big also. But if you interact with them, the feeling is of it as an adult, not as a child. So that experience of child, that is God’s potency. So the feeling of childness in that particular matter is, is God’s potency. It’s not the body of the child, it’s it’s God’s potency that is there, because the same living entity as they get bigger then instead of being a child then they are an adolescent, then they are a young adult, they are a mature adult, then they are an old person – like this. Means, all families from any culture, from any country talk about the experience with children in the same way. So that potency that makes the child act in that way is God’s potency. But we think it is the body. So because of ignorance then we become attached to the body as opposed to being attached to God.

So in the form of the child then, then there is a manifestation of God’s potency. So then ultimately is God in that form of child, meaning that potency, how do they want us to deal? In other words, how does a parent or a mother deal with the potency of mother interact with the potency of child? So that actually defines what are the natural interaction between mother and child. Just like parents in the present day may think a marriage works or doesn’t work, it’s okay. But that’s just a change in their perspective. But no child on the planet in any family anywhere thinks it is okay. Because it is against the eternal principles of how a mother acts with a child. Does that make sense? Yeah? Okay. Yes?

Mataji (2): Sometimes I’m acting and I am pleasing that other person, but I myself, I’m not satisfied. What’s the problem? Because you said that by satisfying other person, one should become satisfied too.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: But what is your relationship with that other person? Do you know what I am saying? Do you see a relationship there? Why are you interacting? [break] I can’t [hear].

Mataji (2): For instance husband and wife.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay.

Mataji (2): So if husband makes the wife happy, but himself he is not happy. What is the reason? Is he…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Husband makes the wife happy, but he himself is not happy. What would be the reason?

Mataji (2): Yes.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Generally that wouldn’t happen. You understand? Means the wife could be trying to make the husband happy and not be happy. But it would be very… That could be quite common, but it would be very uncommon that the husband is actually making the wife happy and he is not happy. Right? You understand? Because the wife is only going to make the husband happy if she is happy. If she is not happy, there is no question he is going to be happy, because the wife always shares whatever her mood is. No?

Mataji (2): Yes [indistinct]. Still there is a problem.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Still there is a problem.

Mataji (2): Yes.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Means husband making wife happy or wife making husband happy?

Mataji (2): Husband makes [indistinct] happy, but…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: But he’s not satisfied.

Mataji (2): Yes.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So then there is a difference in nature. So in other words, what he is looking for, means, he may know the process very nicely, but what he is looking for is something different. Right? Does that make sense? So, but the point is, is since they are connected, then he just has to translate his needs into the manifestation as it is through his wife. Or it can be he is just in illusion of what women are. So in other words he is working on, you know, the tricks of the trade but not necessarily the science. You know, you buy some nice gifts, say a few nice words, you know, it makes some nice arrangements. But he actually doesn’t know what is the nature of woman. Otherwise why, why get it, you know, what is he looking for? You understand? So he thinks if he deals in this way, the wife will respond in a different way.

Translator: He thinks that…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: He thinks by dealing in one way he should get a different result, but he doesn’t. He gets, he gets an actual result, but he doesn’t know that the actual result is what you’ll get. He thinks it should be something else. Does this work? Because this is very generic. You know what I’m saying? So if you can take this and apply it to your situation or whatever is that situation you’re applying it to, then it works. But if not, then it has to be a little bit more… You know what I’m saying? In other words – principle always works. But much of the time people become confused that the detail of that manifestation of the principle is the, the actuality.

In other words, let’s say, I want to cut a potato. So I could use a stainless steel knife. You know, I bought it at Tesco’s. You have Tesco’s here?

Translator: No, we don’t have.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: You don’t. Something you have here. Okay? Right. Or I have some special knife that I bought at some, you know, restaurant supply shop. But both cut the potato. But it’s a different manifestation of what can cut a potato. Or I have a meat cleaver. That will also cut a potato.

Translator: What is meat cleaver?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Meat cleaver, those big square things like this with the handle on. You understand? So the thing is, is if you understand the principle of cutting, you understand all knives. But if you don’t understand the principle, then you see the detail and then you can only relate to one of the knives. That make sense? Yeah. Okay. Someone else had? Yes.

Mataji (3): I would like to ask about traditions between parents and children. So, as I understood, maybe I was mistaken, but as I understood you told us that it means that parents must let everything to do. Must let the children do everything they want. No?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Not exactly.

Mataji (3): But why? If I want to teach them, I can do something different whether if they can doesn’t… They can not like what I do and they will not be happy in this moment. So what can I…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: That’s, that’s, that’s the external, that’s the difference between, you know, the common knife, the fancy knife or the butcher’s knife. It’s…

Translator: Mahārāja, could you summarize this question [indistinct]?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Summarize, her question is, is that it would appear that what I said, because you are trying to please the child, then the parent has to let the kid do whatever they want to do, otherwise you are not pleasing the child. So the point is, is the human child has the potential to be human. But they are not born human. You have to make them human. Right? So the animal may like to do whatever it likes, but human beings like direction, like discipline. So in other words, where you want to get them to, that you do, you have a goal, but you do it in such a way that you’re starting from where they are, and dealing with them until they get to where you want them to be.

Let us say, you want the child to go to school and you have gone out early in the morning for some work. In your mind when you come back, they should have already been up, taken their bath and already eaten so they are ready to go. But when you walk in the door you have to deal with the situation for what it actually is not what you expect it to be. So if they are standing next to the door with their little school bag, ready to go, then you just come in, take them, put them in your car and go. But if they are still in bed then you have to deal with that. Does that make sense? So in other words you have to get… You can’t just go in, pick them up, put them in your car and take them to school. Right? You have to get them up, get them bathed and all that and then get them out the door.

So we are talking about is, you have to be aware of the situation that the child is in right now, not what you would like them to be. What you would like them to be is your inspiration to get them to that goal. But to get them there, you have to know where are they right now. So the point is, is if you want them to do something that they are not so inclined to do, then it is not a matter of because you are the parent they have to do it. It is a matter of you are the parent, you are responsible that they understand and want to do what you want them to do. So the parent is responsible, not the kid. So if they are not doing what you want, you have to figure out how to deal with them so that they want to do what you want them to. And at the same time, as we mentioned, discussing before, is what is God’s direction on what are the methods and goals that parents can have. So what you want from your kid should be something that actually is appropriate. Right? Is that okay?

Mataji (3): Yeah.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay. Yeah. See the point is, is that we are not liberals, we are not conservatives. We follow what is called the middle path. Right? Otherwise, we generally call it the razor’s edge. But the point is, the razor’s edge is in the middle. What makes a conservative conservative? There is rules, there is standards, there is tradition. That is what is attractive about conservatives. What is their weakness? The rule and the tradition is more important than the individual. So because of that they have great difficulty applying those rules to the individual. So what is the liberal? Liberal cares about the individual. So that is nice. You know, the individual, everybody, that kind of thing. What is the weakness? They have no rules, no standards, and no tradition. So how do you know that the good you are doing for the individual is actually good? Because it’s just what you feel like. As you are worried about what they feel like, it’s all according to what you feel like. You deal with everyone else’s feelings according to how, what you think the feelings should be. So there’s no standard. Whatever you feel like, that’s what you do. You understand?

So the middle path or what is called, what we also define as broad-minded, means you have rules, you have standards, you have tradition, but you can apply it to the individual. So that’s why neither the liberals nor the conservatives understand this. If you ask a liberal, we’re conservative. If you ask a conservative, they will say we are liberal. But we are neither. We are the proper combination. Okay? Something else? Yes.

Mataji (4): Thank you, Mahārāja. How, how… If I’m please… trying to please the God and I cannot please the people around me, what should I do?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: You heard?

Translator: I heard, but for recording could you say it in English?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: But did everybody hear?

Translator: I, I’ll, I’ll translate.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay.

Translator: I’ll translate. Please say in English and I’ll translate.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay. Okay.

Prabhu (4): For the record.

Translator: Yea.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Means how… I’m trying to please God in my activities, but I’m not pleasing anyone else. So what should I…?

Mataji (4): Not anyone, just some people around me.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Some people around you aren’t.

Mataji (4): They are not devotees especially. They are very upset about the way, the ways I do [indistinct].

HH BVPS Mahārāja: The point is, is what is the relationship? So what will happen is they are feeling that their involvement in the relationship with you is reduced. So it will create insecurity. So that insecurity may manifest through their, you know, you know constant bickering and complaining or taking on all kinds of arrogant attitudes or, you know, different ways it can manifest. But the point is, is the relationship hasn’t changed. Technically, you know, if it’s like you are talking about family, the legal relationships still remain. So the external forms of it basically are the same. But the point is, is you are adding to that, ultimately you want to please God in this rather than just them. But in pleasing God, then there is also, the point is, is they are family relations because of His, as we said before, His potency. So then that means that in the adjustment, means the relationship doesn’t disappear, you just make sure that the relationship is functioning according to what is actually pleasing to the Lord. And so as that relationship, they should be pleased.

Translator: I didn’t get it. So and this…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Means in their particular relationship, they should be pleased with the dealings.

Translator: Yeah, okay. Yeah.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He had… Let me, let’s say, let’s take Prahlāda instead of Hiraṇyakaśipu. So he dealt with his father properly. So as a father, technically Hiraṇyakaśipu could never complain. As Hiraṇyakaśipu thinking he is God, then there may be a problem with his son’s philosophy. But he would have had problems with Prahlāda’s philosophy whether he was his father or not. So it’s not because of him being his father that there is a problem. So it means, you may add to it, that of course, as feeling that he is the Supreme, that he would like his son to also feel in that way.

But Prahlāda was dealing properly, how you should deal with the father, but he was not going to agree that his father is God just because his father felt like it. In other words, the father can expect that the son will deal properly with him when he is performing his duties. But elements beyond that, those don’t necessarily have to be recognized.

Even we think about it, you have the situation here where the father wants that the son accepts him as the Supreme, or the wife this and that, but if you look at it, when we deal with God Himself, you don’t really see situations where He has a son and He expects His son to deal with Him like He’s God.

Translator: So God [indistinct]. I get it. But God doesn’t expect His son to deal…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: …like He is God. No, He deals like He is father. In Dvārakā, Kṛṣṇa doesn’t say, “I am God.” He has children, but they deal with Him as father.

Translator: His children, but He…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: They deal with Him as father.

Translator: Who is…?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Kṛṣṇa in Dvārakā has sons.

Translator: Yeah, yeah I noted, who is father?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Kṛṣṇa is father.

Translator: Okay, yeah.

Devotees: [laughing]

Translator: He deal, he [indistinct] Kṛṣṇa’s father.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Krishna has children in Dvārakā, but His children deal with Him as father, not as God.

Prabhu (5): Never know about…

Translator: Okay.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: You understand? Because in the mood of Kṛṣṇa in Dvārakā, He is not God. Right?

Mataji (5): So His children in… God’s children in Dvārakā sees Him as father?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes. And He deals with them as father.

Translator: He? Who is he?

Devotees: [laughing]

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay, let’s start from the other thing. Kṛṣṇa in Vaikuṇṭha: He is God, He says He’s God, everyone deals with Him as God, but He has no children.

Translator: Okay.

Prabhu (6): That’s easy!

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Right? But in Dvārakā, He doesn’t say He is God. So he deals with His children as son, they deal with Him as father. There is no God business. So therefore, it is very artificial that the father should expect his son will deal with him as he is God. In other words, relationship has rules. You don’t act outside of those rules. Right? Does that make sense? Does that answer the question?

Mataji (5): Yes, yes. I just feel that I’m too much of a burden in my place and maybe too less attention to my sister. She’s lacking attention.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: The point is, is she gets her attention, but it doesn’t mean that… The point is, is sisters give their sisters attention. That’s the way God’s created the relationship.

Mataji (5): I’m speaking about karma and stuff like that and she says, “I’m sick of karma, I’m sick of [indistinct].”

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So tell her, who does she want? Humphrey Bogart to be responsible or somebody else? Obama. Yeah, it’s got to be Obama, right?

Mataji (5): When I said, she just gets [indistinct].

HH BVPS Mahārāja: The point is, is, is… If she does something right, does she mind that everyone says she did a great job? When she dresses up to go out, what does she expect? People will, will just go, “Oh, it’s your…”, you know, “That’s the way it is,” or “Yeah, you did it. You look really nice!” So that means she is responsible. So why shouldn’t she be responsible if, you know, she only did one eye and she didn’t do the other? So the point is, is what this sister expects, just deal that. She doesn’t want to hear about karma, don’t talk about it. Just like this: sometimes you will be in a particular mood, you know what is what, but you don’t want to hear it, because you are experiencing that mood. So then she’s like that also, but maybe a little more. So just deal in that way. You know, you make it clear there is certain things you are not going to do. You are not maybe going to go clubbing with her, you know, pick up some one night stand, you know, but it… So you don’t do those things. But it doesn’t mean that you don’t deal with her as a sister would deal with her, because as I mentioned before, the potency of sister, that is God. You understand? The manifestation is through dead matter. But what makes it work is Kṛṣṇa. So the experience of sisterness – that’s Kṛṣṇa. So then when dealing with her, you just focus on the sisterness. And you deal with her in such a way that that experience is constant. You understand? That’s what I mean “being sensitive.” Whichever way it moves, you move with that. So the experience of sisterness is consistent. The difference is you are doing it because you know the sisterness is Kṛṣṇa. She is doing it because she thinks she is the sister. Does that make sense? Like that. Okay.

Mataji (5): So that means that the sister must… She can start looking for karma and something else. After some period of time [indistinct].

HH BVPS Mahārāja: After some time. Yeah, yeah, may come later. In other words, you’re dealing…

Mataji (5): [indistinct] it is not the right time now.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, it’s not the right time. In other words, the feminine nature likes to fit in.

Translator: Likes…

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Likes to fit in. But it should not appear that it is by force. You have to fit in. You have to want to fit in. You have to be inspired. In other words, you want to say it and have her accept it, but she only wants to accept it when she wants to accept it. So because you have said it, she will think about it. You are her sister. Right? And so, therefore, if her sister thinks like that, she will naturally, you know, start to think like that with time. But it’s got to come on her time. Does that make sense? You know, if it is the older sister, then she thinks she is the boss, so why is younger sister telling what to do? And if…

Mataji (5): She is younger.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: And… Yeah. And if, and if she is younger, it’s that, you know, she expects you to be sensitive more to her needs. So in other words, don’t push the karma issue with her. But if she wants you to do things that deal with karma, you tell her, you remind her of the karma issue. Because the karma issue is part of your life. You’re comfortable she doesn’t want it part of her life, but it’s part of your life. In other words, she is going to be God conscious… She’s going to be more comfortable with your God consciousness, if she has a sister. But if she doesn’t feel, she doesn’t have a sister, why is she going to be interested in God consciousness if that sister, that she doesn’t have, is God conscious? Right? So it’s just time. Isn’t it? In other words, she is also a woman. So women do things on their time. Right? Okay? Okay.

So we’ll end here for today. We’ll continue tomorrow. Tomorrow we’ll get into this understanding the principles on which this, what we were discussing on, you know, Kṛṣṇa as the sister, as the father. We’ll get onto the philosophy of that tomorrow. Jaya!

Śrīla Prabhupāda –

Devotees: Jaya!

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Samāveta bhakta-vṛnda - kī

Devotees: Jaya!

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Jaya nitai-gaura-premānande

Devotees: Haribol!

Translator: His Holiness Bhaktividya Purna Mahārāja – kī

Devotees: Jaya!

Seminar on the Science of Relationships, Part 1, given in ISKCON Rīga, Latvia

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