TRANSCRIPTION

Hariḥ Oṁ

saha nāvavatu

saha nau bhunaktu

saha vīryaṁ karavāvahai  

tejasvi nāvadhītamastu mā vidviṣāvahai

oṁ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ

 

Oṁ jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda 

śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

 

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

 

HH Bhaktividyā Pūrṇa Svāmī Mahārāja: Were we on the bottom? Last paragraph?

Reading from Śrī Śrī Caitanya Śikṣāmṛta & Daśa Mūla Tattva Study Guide: Realization of the Lord without energies is Brahman. Realization of the Lord as a subtle being pervading the material universe is Paramātmā. Realization of the Lord in full with all qualities is Bhagavān.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay, so this is important to be... Because the subtlety, the difference here is very, very important. Because otherwise, Kṛṣṇa and Brahman, that is obvious there is a difference. But Brahman and Paramātmā, Paramātmā and Bhagavān, these are more of your difficulty. So the Lord without energies, it's just... Yeah. So then when you not think of that, He is just the Lord, but He is not doing anything or anything like that, so this is your Satya-Nārāyaṇa, worshiping Viṣṇu in the mode of goodness. So it is actually a Brahman understanding.

Then, "as a subtle being pervading the material universe is Paramātmā." He is in everything, between everything, so then you get that aspect of Paramātmā.

And then when He is in full qualities, that means the qualities means pastimes, interaction. Because right here is that you are taking, means, you have name, form, qualities, pastimes. So then you are taking the name as the position or existence. Form, then that is what is attractive, so then you have your Saṅkarṣaṇa and Pradyumna. Qualities, that would be your activities, abhidheya. I mean, excuse me... And then your pastimes, is then you are looking at the element of the prayojana, that love and that affection is being exchanged there. Of course, the qualities means pastimes. But we are talking... So then you can say the pastimes are the abhidheya and that affection that is there. But here it is that we are seeing, it is being brought out is that it is the qualities that makes it that Kṛṣṇa is so attractive or that one loves Him and one interacts with Him. It is mentioned that Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī is specifically attracted by Kṛṣṇa’s qualities. So the qualities come into the abhidheya position because his Deity is Govindajī, who is the Lord of abhidheya. Does this make sense? So then, yeah...

Reading from the Study Guide: Realization of Bhagavān pervaded by majesty is called Nārāyaṇa, the lord of Lakṣmī. Realization of the Lord pervaded by sweetness is called Kṛṣṇa, the lord of Rādhā. Kavirāja Gosvāmī says "Rādhā is the complete energy, Kṛṣṇa is the complete possessor of energy." This is the correct understanding.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So He is the complete energetic and She is the complete energy of this energetic. There is not, there is no aspect of Kṛṣṇa that Rādhārānī doesn’t have a counterpart for. Right? That is very important because then that makes it why She is special. Because anyone who is Her expansion means they will be something less. So there will be aspects of Kṛṣṇa’s personality they don’t have counterparts for. Does that make sense? So that means then they can’t please in the same way. So on their own, that is why the position is is, we don’t serve on our own because on your own it is going to be less than Rādhārānī. Rādhārānī can serve on Her own. But the point is is, then you have... But the nice part about it, because Kṛṣṇa is complete, then He can be, He in His completeness can be with Rādhārānī in Her completeness, and that is as full as it gets. At the same time, all the living entities being expanded, then you can add their aspect into the pastime and increase it. Does that make sense? It is not that... It is already included in Rādhārānī. It is Rādhārānī, that full mood is there, plus then the mood of the living entities. Right? So a living entity serving Kṛṣṇa on their own is going to give Kṛṣṇa less pleasure than if they assist and serve Rādhārānī. Because then you have... Do you understand? Otherwise it is something less than what Kṛṣṇa is, or it is serving Rādhārānī, it is what Kṛṣṇa is plus more. Does that make sense? So that is the specialness. Yes?

Prabhu (1): Mahārāja, you just mentioned that Rūpa Gosvāmī is especially attracted to Kṛṣṇa’s qualities. So is that the quality in Rūpa Gosvāmī which makes him the abhidheya-ācārya?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Hmm? Is that...? Yeah, basically. The whole idea is that then you know specifically what it is, what is the focus, what is the direction. Otherwise one might choose something else. You know, it's just the pastime... Because the pastime is nice, but why is the pastime there? Is the pastime there for its own purpose? No, so what is the pastime there for? Anybody has idea?

Prabhu (2): Kṛṣṇa’s pleasure.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Kṛṣṇa’s pleasure. That is there, but that is prayojana. Okay, that is there. But then, what makes, what gives Kṛṣṇa pleasure?

Prabhu (2): Interaction.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Interaction with the devotees. What are those interactions going to be based on?

Prabhu (1): Qualities.

Prabhu (3): Relationship.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, relationship, but how... What is that going to be... What is.... Means relationship is there, but what is it that, why would you be interacting?

Prabhu (3): Because you like to.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: You like, okay. But you like...But you like what? What do you like?

Prabhu (3): The rasa.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay, you like the rasa, but what about the rasa? "Oh, wow, hey, what do you think about this drink?" "Wow, great milk shake." "What do you like about it?" "Ohh, it's great." "Yeah, I mean, I know it is great, but what is great about it?" "Oh, it's just a great milk shake, you know." Do you understand? What about it you like? "Oh, the sweetness, or the flavour, or this…" those are qualities. Do you understand?

So it is the qualities that make the pastime work. Right? They are appreciating the qualities. Does that make sense? So, because of appreciating the quality, therefore they want to interact with Kṛṣṇa according to their rasa. According to the rasa they will also perceive certain qualities, or perceive them in their own particular way. To mother Yaśodā Kṛṣṇa is always cute. Right? Does that make sense? That same cuteness to the gopīs is called beautiful. So mother Yaśodā sees that attractiveness of Kṛṣṇa’s beauty and then she... It invokes the parental rasa. The gopīs see it and it invokes the conjugal rasa. The cowherd boys see it and it invokes the sakhya-rasa. So it is the qualities that they are appreciating. Does that make sense? Yeah?

Prabhu (1): So, Mahārāja, we can say that rasa based on qualities? Without qualities there won’t be rasa?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah. Name, form, qualities, then you have pastimes. Right? When you are absorbed in the name, then comes the form. From the form then there is qualities. Then from qualities there is pastimes. Does that make sense?

Prabhu (1): Yes.

Reading from the Study Guide: Putting aside the realization of Brahman and Paramātmā as secondary, and covering the majesty of Nārāyaṇa with sweetness, Kṛṣṇa, endowed with all energies, remains the highest truth.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So nice, so smoothly that was done. Just how he is saying, "Okay, now, putting those aside because they are secondary, and because the majesty, now we have covered that with sweetness, now we are dealing with Kṛṣṇa." So he has dealt this, he has exactly delineated everything and now so smoothly he just then moves on. Because the idea is, you want to move on without getting any objections, otherwise some people can give objections forever and then you can’t discuss anything. You just got to move past. So that is something very important.

Reading from the Study Guide: Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad says thus:

"Kṛṣṇa has no work to perform with material senses, because He has no material body or senses. His body is a completely spiritual form, and thus is not limited in good qualities like a material body. Kṛṣṇa, endowed with unlimited wonderful qualities performs eternal pastimes in spiritual Vṛndāvana. But although He is so, He is still the supreme entity. No other form is equal to or superior to His form, because His form is the abode of all inconceivable energies. It is called inconceivable because by limited human intelligence the contradictions cannot be resolved. This inconceivable energy is called the superior energy, parā-śakti. Though one, this intrinsic energy takes three forms: jñāna (samvit), bala (sandhinī) and kriyā (hlādinī)." 

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay, so that's, that was Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8. So He is mentioned in the Vedas, that is the thing. The ācāryas pull it out and then it is like, it is so obvious. But somehow or another because they are in with so many other verses, like that, somehow or another the jñānīs and others, it is not so obvious, they completely miss the point. Because generally they take... That’s why it said, if you take the direct meaning then it is very obvious what it means. But they will take the indirect, "Well, it doesn’t mean actually that He is... there is a spiritual form, that it means." They will try to twist it, so then they can’t get the right answer. But here it is very obvious, so many of the Upaniṣad verses are just talking about Kṛṣṇa in His personal form and His personal pastimes. Yes?

Prabhu (3): Can we say they are the meaning because according to that rule of a particular liṅga...

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Liṅga?

Prabhu (3): ...which would that one thing first in the text, one point appears for the first time, that is the meaning?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Oh, you mean in the tātparya-liṅgas?

Prabhu (3): Yeah.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: That would be is your... What your beginning and end, or what is repeated, you know, or something special, like that. So it is, we can understand it this way, but they don’t because they don’t want to understand it in this way. Because they want to be impersonalists, so therefore they are going to take this and give it an indirect meaning because it doesn’t fit. Anything that they find, you know, like tat tvam asi, that is just a side thing. It is mentioned eight times in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad in one of the chapters, so therefore then they will take it as important because it has been repeated. So, tat tvam asi, "I am that." But the point is is, what "I am that" means that we are Brahman, not that we are God. So for us it is not a mahā-vākya at all. But they take that and work with it, and take that, that that is the actual meaning. And then from that, then that is their Mīmāṁsā. They will then interpret everything else according to that. So then when they say He has a form and wonderful qualities, they will say that that is then the Kṛṣṇa within, that is the Brahman. "This is outside, it is attractive, just so that we will be interested in Brahman, but then actually…" So they twist it. We can see, there are so many nice verses that show His position.

Prabhu (1): But Mahārāja, we can use the same as a counterargument of that, because if something is outside, but actually it is not, what is the need of going there?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: What is the need of going to the internal?

Prabhu (1): To the Brahman, because if this is just outside, which is more beautiful to attract, then inside is which is Brahman...

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah, but the point is if it is nice what is the problem with it? That is the difficulty, is their philosophy will be contradictory. Because they can't work it out, it says, "t is called inconceivable because by limited human intelligence the contradictions cannot be resolved." So, acintya-bhedābheda-tattva can’t be used by people who are not devotees. Only those with faith can use it because then they can work with two things that are contradictory in the same place at the same time. People with logical brains, they can’t work that out. Right? It just doesn’t make sense to them. It all has to make nice fits in the box logic and then they can accept it. But the problem is is, then they are worrying about something that actually is not so important. And what is important then it is the reconciling these contradictions. So because they can’t do that then they will busy themselves with other things that are less important. Because that will make sense to them. So, therefore, they can’t understand rasa because rasa means there is contradictions. Yeah?

Prabhu (1): Yes.

Reading from the Study Guide: Thus in the Caitanya Caritāmṛta it is said:

"One who knows the real feature of Śrī Kṛṣṇa and His three different energies cannot remain ignorant about Him. The cit śakti, which is also called svarūpa śakti or antaraṅgā śakti, displays many varied manifestations. It sustains the kingdom of God and its paraphernalia. The external energy, called māyā śakti, is the cause of innumerable universes with varied material potencies. The marginal potency, which is between these two, consists of the numberless living beings. These are the three principal energies, which have unlimited categories and subdivisions. (CC Ādi. 2.96, 101-104)

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So here when he is saying "the three energies" he is not talking about samvit, sandhinī, hlādinī. He is talking about the internal, external and marginal. So in here, so then... So the cit-sakti is also the svarūpa-śakti or antaraṅgā. So internal, that cit, means the svarūpa means it is complete, it is the same as Him. So that means, it is how much is there in Him then it is the complete energy. Does that make sense? Because He is generating energy, so how much He is that much energy has been generated. Does that make sense? It is equal, otherwise it is a portion of that. Just like He expands as Viṣṇu, and then He is manifesting only portions of His personality, of His qualities. So in the same way is then the internal potency, as it expands it is only manifesting certain parts of its qualities. Right?

Prabhu (3): So if one is like worshiping Satya-Nārāyaṇa without energies, that means that there cannot be possible any interaction?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: No.

Prabhu (3): Not possible?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Well, they are seeing that Brahman is the highest. But just they like to get to Brahman through worshiping Viṣṇu.

Prabhu (3): Aha, that is the point.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah. Just like in South India you have the Guruvayur temple. Guruvayur? Yeah, I think, Guruvayur.

Prabhu (3): One is Guruvayur.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Guruvayur. There, that is established by Śaṅkarācārya, the worship. They sing Gītā-Govinda to the Deities, they take Them out on elephant procession, they have really nice, nice worship, very famous. But they are all Śaṅkarites, they are all impersonalists. The whole point is is that they do acknowledge that bhakti is one of the ways you can get to the Brahman platform, right? They take it as the lower, the more general for the common people. And for the very elevated and intelligent, like that, the ones that are intelligent that they can’t resolve these, the intelligent ones with the limited human intelligence, they think that the jñāna is the higher. So then even though Śaṅkarācārya established the worship there, the present Śaṅkarācārya sitting on the seat, when he goes to the temple won’t go inside because, you know, God is everywhere why I should go to the temple? But if He is everywhere He could also be in the temple. That is the whole point, their limited human intelligence. They are not so smart. Because they have their own, they want to be God so they won’t go before God because it's... How you say? It kind-of throws them off. God has a better resume, so it is a little... You want to not be in the same room with Him, right? Does that make sense? 

Prabhu (1): So Mahārāja, some Madhvas they say that, they say about ISKCON devotees they say, 'You should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this lifetime, so you will take next lifetime as Madhva, then you can go back to Godhead."

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yeah but no, it is like that, yes, you can do that, then after 14 births, then you will go back to Godhead. They should say that. While we say we will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa this lifetime, we’ll go back to Godhead and after you finished your 14 lifetimes we will be waiting there for you. [Laughter] We will say hello.

Reading from the Study Guide: Lord Kṛṣṇa naturally has three energetic transformations, and these are known as the spiritual potency, the living entity potency and the illusory potency. (CC Madhya 20.111)

There is a kārikā to elaborate on this:

"In the scriptures, Kṛṣṇa's three intrinsic energies are described as bala (sandhinī), jñāna (samvit) and kriyā (hlādinī).

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Bala, jñāna and kriya – so this is very nice because he has connected those three here exactly what they are. Because otherwise some, like the Śrīs use this a lot, bala, jñāna and kriyā. Also when we get into really technical stuff we have the same. So Bala, your... Means, there also it is your śakti, your... How you say? The vīrya and that, then that is what everything is established on. Then jñāna, then with that proper knowledge you perform activities. And kriyā, the hlādinī, then it is going to be, that's... In interaction with that is where your activity is going to happen. So you can see his interest is in the kriyā-śakti because that is where activity is happening.

Reading from the Study Guide: The energies and sources of the energies are non-different. This is the conclusion of the scriptures. However, through the operation of the inconceivable energy of the Lord, variety becomes manifest. The function of the sandhinī (existence) śakti is manifestation of name, form and qualities of things. This brings about the material existence through sandhinī's material function and the spiritual existence through its spiritual function.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Here is also the thing where we are saying that the sandhinī, samvit and hlādinī then reflect as the three modes of nature. So the sandhin will reflect as the mode of ignorance. So here he is saying it is the same energy. Then when it is... In its spiritual function then it is sandhinī and in its material function then it will give the material manifestation. So that will be the ignorance. Because existence is spiritual in the spiritual world, existence here is ignorance. It is based, we are in the material world because of being ignorant of our relationship with the Lord. If you are not in ignorance you are not here. Right?

Reading from the Study Guide: Jñāna also has two varieties, spiritual and material samvit. Similarly there are spiritual and material hlādinī energies which give rise to spiritual and material pleasure. The hlādinī śakti is the dear servant of Kṛṣṇa. She becomes Rādhā, the daughter of Vṛṣabhānu in manifesting mahābhāva, the highest ecstasy of spiritual love.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So here he is showing the reflection. Right?

Reading from the Study Guide: Kṛṣṇa has only one intrinsic energy called the superior energy (parā śakti). This energy creates variety in the spiritual world and increases the varieties of bliss.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So notice here, variety. It is increasing the variety, so it is always changing and creating various ways in which it can be tasted. So Kṛṣṇa is God, so He likes that, and He is always in control. In the material world, then the living entity it is a problem that this, the reflection of this internal potency, the hlādinī-śakti, creates variety. So that is why it is then seen that in this world then the feminine energy is not consistent. Does that make sense? It is like that to create variety. But you have to be God to actually be able to appreciate it. So that’s why in this world it's you perform your duties properly and then from that platform you will be able to appreciate. You don’t perform your duties properly, you will go crazy. Was that too subtle? [Laughter]

Prabhu (3): It is too direct.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: It is too direct? He says too direct, he says it is too subtle. Does that make sense? Yeah. In other words, men want to control women but women are always changing, so they can’t get control and they think this is very annoying. But that is why they are created, because they create unlimited variety for Kṛṣṇa. So you want to try to be Kṛṣṇa, which you are not, then, you know, go for it. So, therefore, it is only through duty which is how are you going to serve Kṛṣṇa by proper performance of your duties, then you can appreciate that variety. As a servant of Kṛṣṇa you can appreciate it, but as trying to be the controller and enjoyer you will never appreciate it because you can’t get it under your control. Do you understand? The energy is always under Kṛṣṇa’s control. Does that make sense? Yes?

Prabhu (4): Mahārāja, how do we create the variety for Kṛṣṇa?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: How do we create the variety for Kṛṣṇa? We assist and serve the internal potency. They create it. We do what we are supposed to do and if we are serving them then we will get the proper intelligence. In other words, they know how to create it, we simply assist in it. That is our position. We are not the creators of it, we are the assistors in it. The internal potency they create the variety, we assist in that. But being feminine by nature then it is very natural to be able to work in that environment. Does that make sense? But as a servant. So neither are we God or are we the head servant, both are impersonal positions: "I am God" or "I am the devotee." That’s why we never think "I am a devotee," we always think "I am servant of devotees." Does that make sense? We call others devotees, but we always think of ourself as servants of the devotees. Does that make sense? Like that.

Reading from the Study Guide: Though the influence of this energy is infinite, from the point of view of the jīva, it appears to have three functions: as the cit śakti, the jīva śakti and the māyā śakti. The influence of the three energies are described in many places in the Vedas. Śvetāśvatara describes the cit śakti manifestation thus:

"The verses of the Rig Veda describe the indestructible spiritual sky, where all the devas reside. Of what use are the Vedas to a person who does not know this fact? Those who understand this have been successful." (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 4.8)

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So, there is one, His transcendental potency. So, as there is one Kṛṣṇa there is one transcendental potency. Kṛṣṇa expands, She expands. So this way you get so many manifestations. But technically there is only, in that way, one energy: the energetic and the energy. But the jīva sees it in three, because one functions as a jīva in the material world, so one needs to see the three. Because there is the material, there is the spiritual, and you have a choice. But once one has made that choice and one is in the fire of the internal potency then one doesn’t see three. Does that make sense?

Reading from the Study Guide: There is a kārikā:

"The parā śakti described in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa is called the svarūpa śakti in philosophical discussions."

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So then, parā-śakti and svarūpa-śakti are the same, that is important also. See, is you have so many ways the words are used, but they are used in different meanings. But it is the same word, they are like synonyms, like that. So, depending upon what angle you are taking, you use a particular synonym. Much of the time these various synonyms are thought of as completely different concepts. No, they are different views on the same concept. So it is very important here that the ācārya pulls these together and makes the connections. Does that make sense? Otherwise it becomes very, very difficult how to work all these out.

Reading from the Study Guide: This is likewise explained in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad:

"The one possessor of energy appears as the controller of all causes, along with the jīva and time. The persons absorbed in yoga meditation have seen this personal energy of the Lord (ātmā śakti) which is surrounded by its expansions. (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 1.3)

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So here it is also called the ātmā-śakti. Because then you know what they are talking about.

Reading from the Study Guide: There is a kārikā concerning the māyā śakti:

"In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa what is called the energy of avidyā karma is called māyā śakti in Vedic texts."

Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 4.8 says:

"Whatever is glorified in the Vedas, such as yajñas, chanting Ṛg Vedas, aśvamedha kratu, vows such as cāndrāyaṇa, is created by the Supreme Person, controller of māyā. The jīva is bound by this same māyā.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So, whatever is glorified, whatever is proper activity to do in the Vedas, that is created by the Supreme Lord. He also is in control of the māyā which the living entity is under the control of. So if you want to be able to perform those proper activities, then you must take shelter of the Lord. Taking shelter of the Lord means you are going to do that through His internal potency. Right? Does that make sense?

Reading from the Study Guide: Concerning the taṭastha śakti, there is a kārikā:

"The energy called ksetra jña mentioned in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa is the taṭastha śakti or jīva śakti. Through this śakti unlimited jīvas appear.

Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (4.5.) says:

"The unborn person, jīva is serving the unborn material nature, which generates numerous material bodies for the living entities and is composed of goodness, passion and ignorance. The other unborn person, Paramātmā, is detached from the enjoyment of material nature.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So now you are dealing with the... This is Śv... The Upaniṣads, so therefore you are dealing here now with the Lord, the jīva and the Supersoul. Soul and Supersoul, like two birds sitting in a tree, because this is an Upaniṣadic understanding, presentation. So then the unborn person, he is the jīva, he is serving the unborn material nature. So this material nature generates unlimited bodies through which the jīva then serves this material energy. The other unborn then is the Supreme Lord, and He is not connected with this material enjoyment. The jīva is, the Supreme Lord is not. So then you get the distinction.

Reading from the Study Guide: The whole cosmic order...

HH BVPS Mahārāja: This is Bhagavad-gītā.

Reading from the Study Guide: "The whole cosmic order is under Me. By My will it is manifested again and again, and by My will it is annihilated at the end." (BG 9.8)

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Then 9.10,

Reading from the Study Guide: "This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again." [BG 9.10]

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Then, Bhagavad-gītā 7.4-5,

Reading from the Study Guide: "Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego - altogether these eight comprise My separated material energies. Besides this inferior nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine, which are all living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe." (BG.7.4-5)

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Right, because here then when one... How, means, if they are struggling with it, how are they sustaining it? That they are sustaining it meaning that because of their desire then the energy is working. Otherwise it is dead matter, it does nothing. So because of their desire then the Lord has arranged that all this is going on. Does that make sense?

Reading from the Study Guide: Through these three energies, the spiritual world, material world and the jīvas make their appearance. In these three energies, the influence of sandhinī, samvit and hlādinī are present. In the realm of cit śakti, the sandhinī gives rise to the qualities, the objects, and all other things which assist in the Lord's pastimes. 

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay, the qualities, the objects, all other things which assist.

Reading from the Study Guide: Kṛṣṇa's form, name, qualities and pastimes are all due to the sandhinī potency. By the influence of the samvit śakti on the cit śakti all the spiritual moods arise. By the hlādinī influence on the cit śakti, prema expands. By the influence of the sandhinī on the jīva śakti, the jīva's spiritual...

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Okay, here we are taking... Okay, so here we are taking cit-śakti as meaning the svarūpa-śakti, the internal potency. Because also then samvit can be called cit. So here also we have to catch that sometimes these words have multiple applications. And so then you have to use one of them because they are all synonymous. And so you have to use one of them in certain situations. So if you are only using one it works, but if you have to use two then there is a problem. So here in any case he has used cit.

So then the cit, in the realm of cit then you have sandhinī, and that gives rise to the qualities and objects of other things. So, in other words the situation in which it will be, the elements of the pastime, the field of activities. Okay, influence of the... Okay, then the samvit makes all the moods, because by interacting you get moods, right? So that is the important thing, is that an action generates an experience. So all the moods will come up from that. And then by the hlādinī then you get prema. So then in the, from this then it will generate those experiences then which create prema.

You got name, form, qualities, pastimes that creates the attraction. Then you have the activity where they interact, you will get your experience. From that experience then generates prema. Does that make sense? So that attraction to something, that interaction with it, the experience generated from that interaction, creates the love. Does that make sense? Yes? No? From what we were discussing before?

Prabhus: Yes.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Like that. Okay.

Reading from the Study Guide: [By the influence of the sandhinī on the jīva śakti, the jīva's spiritual existence, name and place appear. Through the influence of samvit on the jīva śakti the knowledge of God arises. Through the hlādinī influence the jīva experiences spiritual bliss. The jīva's experience of bliss of samādhi by practicing astāṅga yoga and merging into Brahman are also the effects of the samvit on the jīva.]

By the influence of sandhinī on māyā śakti, the material universe composed of fourteen material planetary systems, the gross and subtle bodies of the jīvas and material senses, and the goals of the jīvas such as svarga, are manifested. The material name, form, qualities and actions of the conditioned jīvas all arise from this.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So that means their inherent natures, right? That is the thing. So that is why the dharma has that element, is that it establishes what is the nature. Then based on that then you have the interaction. Does that make sense? So, in other words, having the qualities - that is the sandhinī; using them - that is the samvit. In other words, having them, that is there and that can create attraction. But when you apply them then that generates an experience, moods come up from that. Right? And from that can be generated prema. Does this make sense? Yeah? Okay.

Okay, so that means, everything in the universe that is there, all the gross aspects of it. Then all the name, form, qualities and actions of the conditioned jīvas all also come from this. In other words, so that also, that is your split in your, the two divisions of the sambandha, or here the sandhinī in this case. Then you have the field, meaning the gross aspect of it. Then you have the specific elements: the name, form, qualities and actions, because that is what creates the attraction. What it is, that is the Saṅkarṣaṇa aspect. But what is attractive of that, that is the Pradyumna aspect. Does that make sense? Doesn't make sense? Why it doesn't make sense? He is worried when he opens his mouth he will say something stupid. [Laughter]

Prabhu (3): Completely doesn’t make sense...

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Completely doesn’t make sense?

Prabhu (3): To me, personally.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: To you personally? But what about to you impersonally it doesn’t make sense? Because the jñāna happens on the impersonal path. Maybe it is just you are caught up in all the emotions with the personal, so you are not able to see the higher path of knowledge?

Prabhu (3): ...of limited understanding...

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, by the limited human intelligence. Does that make it any better? [Laughter] Do you remember all the discussions on Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha and Vāsudeva? And sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana? So these are, all we are doing is getting fine details within this. Because through this one can appreciate and understand how rasa works, how relationships work.

Because the point is is, the same energy functions... has two functions, spiritual and material. Because there is only one energy, but that one energy has three aspects. So when the one aspect is being applied then it generates one thing, when another one is applied it generates something else, and the other one, the third. But now they can be applied in the material or in the spiritual. You know what I am saying? So, in other words, the one potency can be applied spiritually or materially. And that one potency has these three aspects. So you get three aspects within the spiritual, three aspects within the material. Does that make sense?

Prabhu (3):Yes.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: And at the same time you have, when you look at it as the other kind of three parts, then you have, you have the internal and external, you have the jīva. So the jīva can appreciate the three different manifestations within the material or the three different manifestations within the spiritual. Does that make sense?

Prabhu (3):Yes.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: This is why you need acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, is to be able to hold all that together at once. Does that make any sense? 

Prabhu (3):Yeah.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: So, therefore, within the sandhinī there is two basic divisions. Means, the gross forms of everything and the position and placement of everything, the other is its name, its form, its quality, its pastime, I mean, its activity, specifically what that is, that is what makes you interested to deal with the field. You know what I am saying? So that is what then generates the Pradyumna. Then from that, then you apply those qualities in abhidheya.

Prabhu (3):That is Vāsudeva.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, that is Vāsudeva. And that will then generate all the various moods that happen in interaction. That will generate love, that generates the prema. Does that make sense? Yeah. So material action by that generates the moods of material lust, those moods that culminate in lust. So, therefore there is more desire for more material activity. Therefore you give up material activity, you connect it to Kṛṣṇa, it can’t generate lust, right? So if it is direct it will bring you close to the prema. If it is not, if you are using the indirect, then seeing Kṛṣṇa’s potencies in that, then it won’t generate lust, but it will destroy the lust. In other words, it has to move from lust to love. So between the lust and the love there must be a middle point, right, there is always a sandhi, so that is the point of liberation. So then you remove the material desire, bring it to the neutral, but by continuing the same process it brings you to spiritual. So in the same way, that internal potency will remove the material and it will establish you in the spiritual. It will remove the lust, it will generate the prema.

Prabhu (3): Direct and indirect, that refers to where you see Kṛṣṇa directly, or...?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: You see His energies working in how the material creation is…

Prabhu (3): And you don’t see Him?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: You can see Him. Why can’t you see Him? The point is is you will start off..

Prabhu (3): Because when you see Him, then it is direct.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, but the point is is, from the indirect it turns to direct. But the tendency is is when you are dealing with the indirect, that kind-of like fills up your range of intelligence at the time. That is why it is called jñāna-yoga. But by that practice, because its purpose is bhakti-yoga, it will transform into it because we see there is a non-difference in the potencies. So any one can bring you to the other because it is the same potency, and your purpose is the same so therefore dealing with the reflection can bring you to the reality. But you have to deal with the reflection understanding it is Kṛṣṇa’s potency, and it is the same potency as the spiritual, therefore if you deal with it as that same potency only manifest in its material function, then that same potency will give you the spiritual result rather than the material.

Prabhu (3): Like making asat sat?

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Basically. Something is only asat because you don’t see Kṛṣṇa in it. Otherwise it is just part of the same energy. You know what I am saying? You have electricity, it runs the refrigerator, it runs the heater. It is the same energy. So that's all, it works on both… That is what Prabhupāda is talking about, it works on both. Mahā-māyā and yoga-māyā are the same person. She is also svarūpa-śakti. It is another aspect of, but it is taking the position where the mood is that of the cit-potency rather than the hlādinī. When svarūpa-śakti takes the mood of hlādinī, it is Rādhārānī. When it is of cit, it is yoga-māyā. Do you understand? So that reflects here as mahā-māyā. So, therefore, dealing with the mahā-māyā in connection with Kṛṣṇa, then that means you will deal with that person then as yoga-māyā. It will give you spiritual result. That is why it is so hair-splitting, because if you don’t get the split right, you end up on the wrong side of the fence. You know what I am saying? You could miss the whole point, and instead of getting yourself out of the material world, you get yourself deeper in. It's just like you have a very sharp knife, if you use it right, it works excellently and does your job, but you use it wrong you get very badly cut. So that’s why such technical points are being brought up, so you don’t get cut.

Prabhu (3): So at any point in the material world one can have Kṛṣṇa as the goal? 

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes.

Prabhu (3): Like you always have to focus, whatever you do, whatever is there...

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes. That’s why He says, "Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer in charity, do it as an offering to Me." He said whatever you do, He didn’t just say only some of the things. He said whatever you do.

Prabhu (3): Everything.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Right. But the point is is that everything, you are having to see through it to Kṛṣṇa. It's not go, "Oh, everything means I can ride around on my motor-bike," and like that. But the point is is, you think it is the motor-bike, but it is not the motor-bike, it is Kṛṣṇa that is so attractive about it. You know what I am saying? That is why these things are so hair-splitting. Because if you don’t get them right you will end up God only knows where. That is why a lot of times you keep it simple. Because this is a spiritual treatise to understand God, but then if we use it to try to... How you say? How do you call it? Justify our material attachments, you miss the whole point. Because the point is is, when you are justifying material attachments, you are dealing with material attachments and they stay material attachments. You are not justifying, you are recognizing they are there and connecting them to Kṛṣṇa according to His rules, not your rules - that is what frees you. So it is very, very fine. That is why the divisions here are so fine, because it says it is a razor’s edge. So that is how fine the divisions have to be made. And this is daśamūla, this is the stuff you learn before you get initiated. [Laughter] Like that. So we will end here, we are over time. The monsters will be coming down very soon. We will continue then... What? On Thursday?

Oṁ Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare 

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

 

Jaya! Śrīla Prabhupāda kī jaya! Samavetā bhakta vṛnda kī jaya! 

Jaya Nitāi-Gaura premānande Hari Hari bol!

 

[end of lecture]

Prabhu (3): Yeah, it's like, the whole is, you have to focus between the... I just saw a verse that if you do it with a focus for your spiritual advancement towards Kṛṣṇa, that is the highest dharma.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, that is the whole point. But you can’t maintain the attitude that I got to be the enjoyer here. It has to be that that is what it is. You can’t just say it. You have to do it. You know what I am saying? Like you can tell the person, "Yeah, I will do that for you." But until you do it it is not done. So it says "the focus," so what are you focusing on?

Prabhu (3): Focus on Kṛṣṇa.

HH BVPS Mahārāja: Yes, then it works like that. But if you don’t focus on Kṛṣṇa then it will act as material energy. Because you always have to remember, the same potency has two forms. You know what I am saying? Yes?

Prabhu (3): Yes.

Prabhu (5): [Indistinct] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

[end]